# messages

type: message
date: 2023-08-02 04:09:05
content:
  So get your head out of your ass and look at the bugger picture. Majority want shit to happen. From the information that is readily available and accessible, He is the reason why shit is NOT happening


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 04:09:51
edit_date: 2023-08-02 04:10:02
content:
  (in truth is a proper stalement between Froox and Karel, so fault on both sides in regards to shit not getting done, regardless of drama)


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 04:53:04
content:
  two years of progress. And no its not entirely all Karels fault, its just the reasoning behind why people wanted him gone. But fast forward to today this doesn't really mather anymore. Lost is lost. The two years we lost will be known as the dark ages of Neos/Insert-Product-Name-Here VR space


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 05:46:11
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:00:22
content:
  We've wanted him gone because he's messed everything up. We're willing to support him if he'll actually support the game itself and the community that makes it what it is, but for years he's proven he either chooses not to, or cannot.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:28:59
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:36:49
content:
  tbh I think its you and many others who chose to stop listening very early on. There's been no room for him to even breath without it being seen as a disaster.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:30:30
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:37:10
content:
  The kind of respectful relationship we want goes both ways. Whenever Karel even speaks AT ALL he gets lambasted, and has a peanut gallery over on discord taking shit he says and making wild claims out of it


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:31:03
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:37:42
content:
  Let me try again.

  You're simply upset that Karel is doing what's in his best interest and vision for Neos after the rest of the team tried to force him out. Your talk of "supporting" Karel is hard to take seriously when the main demand by the community has been that he leave the project. 

  Not to mention that Karel's primary role and function as CEO was bus development, keeping the lights on and the project funded. He succeeded beyond anyone's expectations with NCR during the last crypto bull market, but because of whatever differences he had with the team, they told him to effectively F off. Years of funding for devs, hiring, marketing, etc. down the drain. Regardless of whether their reasons were valid or not, your statement that Karel alone "messed everything up" is simplistic af


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:32:28
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:38:02
content:
  right, and I remember how assholes on the dev team talked down to me. And I see people like Geenz talking so bizarrely smug with people its damn disgusting


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:32:36
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:39:20
content:
  Again, it's hypocritical to hear about policing tone given what a lot of the discord was saying about Karel two years ago


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:35:16
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:38:28
content:
  and, again, I'll point out that when this shit went down, IT WAS FROOX and his buddies who CHOSE to maliciously throw NCR holders... the very people funding his precious dream project... under the bus.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:36:07
content:
  they were cheering him on, and the only person who gave a goddamn about those people who spent their money funding the project was Karel


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:38:34
content:
  I agree though that was not cool to get talked down to like that. I want to tell you to chalk it up to Karel assuming literally everyone is out to bust his balls, but that doesnt excuse it


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:39:42
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:39:56
content:
  No excuse for how he talked, but he is under a lot of stress as of late, after calling the discord unofficial and everyone there imposters, everyone there who was still doing their jobs, stopped


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:39:56
content:
  If they really wanted NCR not in neos they would not have put the time into coding the functionality in at all


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:41:11
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:41:50
content:
  The fact that they coded it in and initially supported NCR for years before all the crap went down is what makes it bad... had none of that occurred, we wouldn't be having this conversation


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:41:48
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:41:34
content:
  Yeah they were all for it back then when crypto wasn't this icky thing on social media. Froox himself said Neos would be dead without NCR. He said that years ago before all this.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:42:56
content:
  The problem was, they would develop it. But it wasn't focused, and then when karel released the white paper with their "signatures" without their proper consent (lack of != Consent) that's when this shit went down


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:44:13
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:44:33
content:
  they basically offered all the heads on the platter just to save face and used us as bargaining chips against Karel


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:47:42
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:47:59
content:
  I was there the whole time. NCR had its largest drop in history when Froox announced he was considering removing NCR from the game


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:50:10
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:50:28
content:
  And this comes after like a month of the devs doing damaging things, like making channels with topics like "brainstorming ways to remove NCR from Neos" and their public stance being "eh we might remove it. We dont like crypto so we'd like to but who knows".


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:50:55
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:51:17
content:
  And the crypto guys were like "hey, we funded the game. Can't you like say something to help us feel like we're not in danger?" and they never did.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:51:42
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:51:53
content:
  Hexa, just wanna say I appreciate your thumbs down and emojis. Makes it easier to spot which posts are actually worth reading


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:52:34
content:
  They could have simply said "look, NCR is a part of Neos, you're all fine stop worrying" But they instead said "we dont wany anything to do with it. when Karel gone so is NCR"


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:53:39
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:56:23
content:
  And they labeled those holders as cryptobros when many are just people who liked Neos. Many were Japanese players who didnt know anything going on.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:55:09
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:56:39
content:
  Well I do. If I was home I'd show screenshots. Its not exactly a secret the devs stance on it. They've said they wish it was gone. Would you collect money from people for 4 years and then say "I wish those people just went away"?


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:55:11
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:57:09
content:
  Right, the charts don't lie. Altcoins including NCR were pumping left and right when BTC reached its ATH in November 2021, then got wrecked the following year. It was a pump and dump by "investors" trying to make a quick buck.

  Also, NCR isn't even allowed in the Steam version of Neos, which most people use


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:56:55
edit_date: 2023-08-02 06:57:32
content:
  Yeah like every crypto cycle. But look at how hard NCR suffered due to the uncertainty of its fate? Compare it to something like MANA, another game metaverse token for a much more inferior product. It faired the market about 10x better than NCR did.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 06:59:56
edit_date: 2023-08-02 07:06:41
content:
  NCR has been being sold through patreon since 2018. And later through an ICO on the website. That money went to keeping the lights on.

  Again, lets take Froox's word for it: "Neos would be dead if not for NCR"


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 07:00:35
edit_date: 2023-08-02 07:07:06
content:
  What they did was not at all fair to those people who had been putting money into the game. The internal struggles is not at all their fault.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 07:03:02
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:47:20
content:
  Who is defending them during all this shit? Instead you want to gaslight people into believing some false narrative and give the devs a faultless out.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 08:41:28
edit_date: 2023-08-02 08:46:34
content:
  Misinformation might be more accurate. Most people hear it from someone who hear it from someone who...


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 08:52:55
content:
  It just might not be the person saying it who's lying. They're just trusting something someone said without checking facts. Which is still bad! But less malicious than lying


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 08:56:23
edit_date: 2023-08-02 08:57:11
content:
  Yes lying would imply malicious behaviour, repeating somebody elses lie might be participating in malicious behaviour unintentionaly or also might also be as well intentional. However a lie is still a lie. Meaning the opposite of true.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:00:54
edit_date: 2023-08-02 19:45:48
content:
  False beliefs are not lies. A lie is an attempt to present that which isn't as that which is by one who knows better. Deception is required.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:00:56
content:
  The word lie just has so much bite to it. It does come across as snapping at the person talking if you call what they're saying lies, even if they were somewhere down the chain. They are potentially a victim of misinformation themselves if what they're saying isn't factual, and antagonizing is unproductive. I think that's what I'm trying to rebel against.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:01:47
content:
  It's complicated. Because what you belive in could be a lie, making the things you say technically lies even if you aren't lying? Because they're clones of the original lie


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:05:42
content:
  In this specific case I am not even going to stand on either side of lies or not lies, honestly. I just want civil conversation.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:06:44
content:
  Actively spreading misinformation looks like a good reason to assume that they are not doing it from the good of their hearts. What good would that do


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:07:40
content:
  Well actually they could indeed be doing it from the good of their hearts. The most powerful lies ever are those that take advantage of people's goodwill


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:08:59
content:
  I see like poeple supporting Hitler because they thought its really good idea and good for Germany or something. Fair.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:09:02
content:
  Unless we're going to get into a meta-ethical discourse, in which case I don't think it's the correct forum :3


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:10:50
content:
  Or even in this case! If they genuinely think someone, especially someone they like, was treated unfairly, then that is a just and good reason for them to be upset. Again, I am not taking a stance on the legitimacy of any claims, I do not have any facts only heresay. But that reason as it is is a good and just one.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:11:55
content:
  If you snap at them it looks AWFUL, because their motives could legitimately be pure and humanitarian in nature.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:12:48
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:13:54
content:
  https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie still emphasizes deliberate intent to deceive. We can't separate intent from this just by making it the objective case.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:19:02
edit_date: 2023-08-02 19:48:31
content:
  I'm sure it is biting. Being lied about sucks a lot. And I'm sure it's tiring to hear the same thing over and over again too. I 1000000% understand why the reaction from your perspective. I'm not really into the shouting of third party facts at you either. I think both sides could do with some calming down some days.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:20:54
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:55:08
content:
  Accusing community members of deception. Implying. Message hints and planned and targeted "repeated lies"

  Causes other community members to defend falsely accused
  Causes community to dislike and polarise

  Look at the bigger picture. Do not argue over small things


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:22:53
content:
  Must show maturity. CEO position is not member of anonymous message board. Relationship with community very delicate


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:23:01
content:
  Everything is hidden under thousand of thousands of messages. No official Announcement or FAQ channels for people to look at. To be fair, who's gonna waste their time searching for that one true message under millions of other messages?


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:23:41
content:
  I don't. Lie is too loaded. Implies malicious intent in the speaker, clear ad-hominim, rhetorically unrefined :3


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:25:39
content:
  No. You just don't use lie if you don't think the person is malicious. We don't need to prove intent, it must be believed.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:30:24
content:
  You think anyone who is misinformed is malicious? I hope that's not the case. (this is the primary reason lie is not a great word choice, it places the moral weight on the speaker. unless you wish to imply malicious intent from everyone who holds that false belief, but this is not a great position to hold because it's easy to attack as conspiracy minded.)


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:31:52
edit_date: 2023-08-02 09:32:06
content:
  Yes I think everyone who is misinformed and repeating a lie should be called out for repeating a lie.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:32:44
content:
  Otherwise our civilization would soon crumble to nothing if we can’t even call untrue statements untrue


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:39:14
edit_date: 2023-08-05 20:44:27
content:
  I saw multiple people in here stating facts that aren’t true. For example the person who said you had a family and a child. I wouldn’t call them a liar just because someone missinformed them on the matter. ;)


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 09:39:18
content:
  I mean, it's definitely not the position I'd spin in a forensics event, but you do you I suppose. Doxa differs in time and place. I'm just pointing out that correcting a misunderstanding has less emotional baggage than putting truth to the lie.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 10:02:59
edit_date: 2023-08-02 10:32:47
content:
  Hear me out: water isn't wet. It can only make other things wet. If you add water to water, it just clumps up. Water is in fact, absent other influences: sticky. :3


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 11:32:05
content:
  Do we really need to discuss definitions.

  Some of the neos team had a monthly payment from Karel/Solirax. There screenshot it put it on a t-shirt.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 11:49:28
content:
  Sadly most, if not all of those informations about that got deleted from the wiki :/
  Now people are back to speculating.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 13:59:02
content:
  Not pages but the recordings from the office hours as far as I remembered. That question popped up before and been in the discord aswell multiple times before.


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 16:10:23
edit_date: 2023-08-02 19:50:41
content:
  Yeah, who was paid/underpaid was more of a mater of oral tradition. It is worth noting that Prime has been very consistent when I've seen him discussing this in saying that none of the development team (e.g. Himself, Geenz, Possibly Raith?) were compensated for their work rather than the more general "no one got paid".


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 16:46:09
edit_date: 2023-08-02 20:24:24
content:
  Also that payment wasn't the main problem. Do you think loss of trust has anything to do with payment?


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 16:48:01
content:
  There were, well, some payments to the dev team. But also let's not forget, some of the dev team refused to be paid, for whatever reasons undisclosed


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 16:50:13
edit_date: 2023-08-02 19:33:03
content:
  Also, dev team is more than those who wrote code, this includes also the people who developed content and developed the community, it's all mudded down


type: message
date: 2023-08-02 23:58:48
content:
  Yes, he never suggested going above 10 hours as such he would never need $200k as such he was asking for $50k.

  I'm well aware, I've sat over drinks and food and talked with Geenz about this.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:01:11
content:
  It may be absurd but it was a start of negotiation, the response from the other party there should have been. "Sorry we can't go that high, let's talk about going lower" which I think happened.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:01:14
content:
  So atleast I'll give you credit for pointing out people got paid, since its ridiculous that continhally its an attack that gets thrown around "no one was paid" when Neos didnt even have the money to pay its devs


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:02:45
content:
  That's why I originally wrote the NCR FAQ page, to make sure everyone had the right answers to as many NCR questions as possible.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:06:30
content:
  Most companies have a professional negotiation process when it comes to salary expectations. The key is to remain professional and cordial even if that is the response inside your head.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:13:41
content:
  For example my income is much lower here in austria...  but half of my income is taxes, and my complete income again is payed by the employer directly to services


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:15:04
content:
  I read his response and he seemed like he didn't realize that paying his rate would have ran the company in the ground in short order


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:16:31
content:
  And that is fine too Orc. I advice everyone working for any organization over the internet (like patron funded neos) to keep hourly rates stable to  what  you normally get, but offer to work way less hours than you would actually put in  in the end


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:17:08
content:
  Reality is, i  also had many jobs pay me for 5 or 10 hours  a month, when i actually put in more like 40... but  i did this because i wanted, not because i had to.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:20:07
content:
  There's this attitude like it wasn't enough or its only begrudgingly mentioned that some got paid, but everyone seems to forget Neos was just getting by


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:21:07
content:
  Again,  many of the people  did not get payed,  but that doesn't mean everyone thinks that was because someone wanted to get rich fast, at least thats not how i see it


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:21:29
content:
  Obviously the majority of people that got not payed did it knowing that they don't get payed... if not everyone


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:22:27
content:
  I kind of even question why this is such difficult problem. AS said, payment was never really the problem. But to demand that everyone keeps working  like normal, even considering that they "don't get payed" created a bit bad blood, obviously


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:23:09
content:
  It was less because of the "don't get payed" as the demands  imposed. And its such a long time ago... really, i don't think many care anymore.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:24:45
content:
  Old story, i am sorry i even brought it up. I just assume thats what this all was about. Just ignore me, i have to get back to work ;)


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:27:27
content:
  AFAIK, the moment there was money to actually pay, thats when the problems arose. Even during that people had opportunity to send an invoice but everyone refused. Maybe at the time they didn't know how long and stupid this would all be.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 00:35:47
edit_date: 2023-08-03 00:36:51
content:
  Noone expected all of this. Everyone assumed there would be a showdown by law or a buyout from one of the both parties. But here we are two years later and squabbeling about semantics.

  I underestimated how much the tumb-war between Karel and Froox would stop development for such a long time. If any of the both sides would have had purly financial interest, this could have been obviously solved with money and/or lawyers.

  Soooo... thats why we are all here again. But at least this is all over very soon now.


type: message
date: 2023-08-03 15:25:56
edit_date: 2023-08-03 19:41:37
content:
  The point is that its often pushed that Karel was hoarding funds greedily when in reality they were struggling to get runway and still paid people when they could


type: message
date: 2023-08-06 17:19:24
content:
  It's just a vague estimate, I wouldn't hold it to them since everything can very much be in-dev currently


type: message
date: 2023-08-07 17:57:18
edit_date: 2023-08-07 18:09:14
content:
  This is starting to have the same feel as a failing Kickstarter - the one you back and patiently wait for updates, being assured work is being done even though no evidence has been shown, only to drop into radio silence leaving you wondering if anything will ever be delivered.


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 01:08:00
edit_date: 2023-08-08 02:52:00
content:
  Three different accounts with single word nondescript feminine names and simple or nonexisting profile pics, all joining in after the last account gets deleted, all spamming emojis and Karel praise before getting deleted. Very interesting


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:10:44
edit_date: 2023-08-08 16:41:22
content:
  I... can't say? Everything i know is only rumor or not (yet) public. But what i mean with that is that there is a lot of movement going on right now. Like both groups working to very close deadlines with software and release dates. So its less limbo than it was and the next 1-2 month will be very interesting


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:12:15
content:
  Well, not by me. But there is also no reason to assign any value to what i say. In any case, my opinion is that there are lots of interesting things happening right now.


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:23:56
content:
  Its not that surprising that with friendship come a lot of feelings attached, expecially if there is a break in trust and one side is pushing the creation of the other  to be something they don't want it to be


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:24:41
content:
  Sure, the money made it boil over, as it was kind of what inflamed the issue but really in no way the cause.


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:26:49
content:
  In my  personal opinion, all that should have been given to lawyers on day one. It  would  have been solved by now and at least one side could  have continued work undisturbed of the petty squabbels


type: message
date: 2023-08-08 09:29:15
content:
  But still, it seams  like it happend  now so  i  will be  curious to see the project(s) and we will be able to stash  away the squables very soon as  forgotten past of neos/whatever name


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:17:12
content:
  my headcannon is that they had aligned interests and tried to make a friendship work but really each was just glad they had someone potentially helping them


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:17:49
content:
  like froox was just glad to get funding and a place and karel was glad to have a good vr product to start a business with


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:18:17
content:
  Can't speak for others. But considering how long and close they worked together over so many years, expecially over long time without any financial gain, having close aligned interests, its a safe bet


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:20:50
content:
  Froox gained friends in neos because of his work, and Karel was never really that close to Neos (as in the VR software). I don't remember ever meeting him there


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:21:25
content:
  But thats something that happend all after many, many years. Neos as a VR world happend MANY years after Froox and Karel got togehter as partners


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:22:56
edit_date: 2023-08-09 13:26:18
content:
  the feeling I got was froox being in a hard place and just being glad someone was there to help him work on his dream, but not really like "hey this guys pretty cool and we get along" but more like "this guy is going to help me" is how he's introduced in the writing


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:26:14
content:
  I only know the stories, i don't know how true they are. Froox main interest was always in creating what he wanted and didn't even want Neos to evolve to a point where true money is involved, as far as i can tell. It kind of feels he blocked it quickly evolving to an actual product given the chance (crypto bubble) BUT its also true that this bubble burst, and to say thats entirely because of Froox seams far fetched too.


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:26:56
content:
  Both had completly different interests at that point, yes, but that doesn't tell anything about the past.


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:27:49
content:
  well people like to project their own shit onto froox (and karel) so I dont know where the truth is.


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:28:17
content:
  Froox did want his project to evolve and carefully grow to what he thinks neos should be, Karel did see a chance to make this an actual company with real money involved. Both interests are valid, but its not what crashed it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:28:49
content:
  Ppl like to say froox is this pure socialist against the idea of money existing in his VR utopia and that crypto was forced on him


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:29:26
content:
  I don't know, sounds far fetched. It just seams like he didn't want it to grow at that point, and Karel exactly wanted that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:29:26
edit_date: 2023-08-09 18:47:10
content:
  first time i hear that one, the "utopia" thing. at least in the sense of "against the idea of money existing" the latter part ive seen


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:33:08
content:
  Perhaps, but i understand both very much, same thing happend to me with a "browsergame" i created about 15 years ago (yea, still exists)


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:33:56
content:
  The jump from "cool, we have a community, it works, everyone is having fun" and "we can make real money with that" is always extreme trouble


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:36:20
content:
  Yeah, trying to have some sort of control over what he put so much effort into and having a bunch of people he barely knows potentially blocking him


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:37:59
content:
  I guess its not very fair, I just think it was avoidable and much of it due to ego rather than sound decisions


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:40:22
content:
  I tried to make something like that, just with real interactions. Like actual moving ships, flying on a map, managing your ships, realtime interactions ;)


type: message
date: 2023-08-09 13:41:03
content:
  i may just try it out anyway even tho the "wait an hour to click a button" genre is a hard sell to me nowadays :p


type: message
date: 2023-08-10 10:22:44
edit_date: 2023-08-10 10:37:27
content:
  Thank you everyone for your patience with the update. We’ve postponed it a bit to add a feature. Looks all set for Monday. Can’t wait to see what you think.


type: message
date: 2023-08-11 07:09:55
content:
  Theres a few key pain points for me which I've talked about before
  If those were fixed id be satisfied


type: message
date: 2023-08-11 08:41:31
content:
  Yea, or think  of the way VRC was going "we found out what every one of you really, really wants in our game... ... so we added anti-cheat to it to make modding impossible!"


type: message
date: 2023-08-11 18:30:48
edit_date: 2023-08-11 20:58:17
content:
  I'm so tired of games implementing unneeded anticheats when all that was needed was server side security. Anticheat just makes cheating harder, while good server-side implementations make it wholly impossible (excluding the tiny stupid exceptions that usually aren't useful).
  Fact is it was not needed, other better approaches should have been taken.
  Great topic for the neos telegram lol


type: message
date: 2023-08-12 07:23:50
edit_date: 2023-08-12 07:28:59
content:
  Hi Karel could you clarify whether this is an update to the game (e.g. downloading a new build of Neos from the website) or an update to the website/NCR? There seems to be some confusion circulating around the nature of the update. Thanks


type: message
date: 2023-08-12 07:29:38
edit_date: 2023-08-12 07:29:57
content:
  most likely the website but as far as I've seen they haven't explicitly stated on what.
  May also include the whitepaper update they've mentioned


type: message
date: 2023-08-12 09:38:12
edit_date: 2023-08-12 17:13:39
content:
  How many members of this group have at least one Neos account and are using the software at least once every other month?


type: message
date: 2023-08-12 09:46:36
content:
  It's a ton better than vrc and has potential. I don't know much about the things neos is going through but I certainly hope whatever struggle it has will positively conclude.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 10:24:05
edit_date: 2023-08-14 10:25:06
content:
  @malooniac do you know of a time frame today or no ? Since karel said it would be this Monday or is this update being postponed


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 11:27:04
content:
  Hello, yes we are still aiming for today. I don't have the exact hour but should be by the end of the day. CEST time. 😊️️️️️️


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 13:21:51
content:
  Very correct 👍 the "too easy" was a little on the sarcastic side. It would be nice to get more info.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:43:37
content:
  The new UI on the website is now live with the ability to Deposit/Send NCR, that's all i can see, I'm sure Karel will explain what other changes were made


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:51:47
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:52:58
content:
  Hello everyone, I'm proud to present you our new universal UI https://twitter.com/neos_vr/status/1691112945617444864 alongside many other updates. You can already experience our new UI yourself in the updated  account.neos.com webapp now featuring automated deposits and withdrawals.
  Updated Neos Whitepaper 1.10 is now available at neos.com with details on upcoming staking and why we are becoming Neos Metaverse Foundation to help developers get the freedom they need.
  As you can see this is just an initial update with more to come. We can't wait to see what you think and bring you more updates soon.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:53:21
content:
  That's an upcoming feature allowing users to stake their NCR (get more) in a gamified way teased in the video above collecting Stardust.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:54:05
content:
  Initially in a world we call Cooper's Planet but later in all words. Of course with the option to opt out.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:54:55
content:
  I'm just confused on the relationship between staking NCR and things in game, do you get item/world rewards by staking?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:56:40
content:
  Directly in Neos - most of the footage you can see in the video of both the new UI and Cooper's planet is shot in new Unreal Based Neos client in development but I have high hopes it will be available in the existing NeosVR Unity client as well.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:56:53
edit_date: 2023-08-14 15:57:11
content:
  The new interface sure is sleek. Is that an original UI or is it from a template? (If it's a template which template is it? 👀)


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:57:25
content:
  Having choice of multiple clients developed by independent teams with a lot of freedom is the main reason we are turning into Neos Metaverse Foundation.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 15:58:36
edit_date: 2023-08-14 15:59:56
content:
  So is this starting from scratch ? And each team will work on there own games but maintain interop ? Then hopefully include the neos client later on ?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:02:08
content:
  Unreal Neos client you say. Is there a possible release or early access that will be made available sometime? I understand you said it was still in development but this is interesting


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:02:16
content:
  Makes the currency less of a weird disconnected external investment and more of a gamey thing. And I do like games more than I like empty crypto, so


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:02:50
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:03:14
content:
  Development was started by Unreal team about a year ago from scratch yes. The engine independent data format accommodates development of new compatible clients nicely so we hope there will be many flavors of Neos and compatible software. Please see details in Whitepaper.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:05:37
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:07:03
content:
  Didn't know you are into Philanthropy Karel Good luck with the endeavor to make Neos a play to earn platform i with as 99,9999999 of them have all Dropped off the internet into the archive servers and turned into memes


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:05:46
content:
  Doesn't Unreal have policies and engine limitations designed to prevent runtime user generated content? I'm pretty sure that's a big reason SecondLife viewer developers abandoned Unreal engine implementation for graphics


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:09:32
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:11:38
content:
  It’s named after Murphy Cooper (not Joseph as you might think). It’s just an initial world will be available everywhere later.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:10:40
content:
  Neos has an engine independent data format all clients should be compatible with Neos Cloud and existing content no problem.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:11:00
content:
  So I'm guessing that there will be a backend neos client codebase that anyone can use, and then individuals will create their own neos client frontends?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:11:19
content:
  @karel I'm having issues accessing this new site because my monitor cannot be tilted https://prnt.sc/Qex6aBZRIEQt


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:14:00
content:
  Really then explain how stardust and harvesting in game assets is not play to earn as I am just a silly minded furry  trying to understand your great wisdom.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:14:05
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:14:52
content:
  Yeah its designed first and foremost for use in-verse the web app was very much secondary not very responsive


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:15:05
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:15:17
content:
  In this case strange more specialized terminology is relevant
  its just strange, we wouldn't be able to change anything datamodel-wise so what's the point


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:16:29
content:
  Wait, isn't Neos based on Unity for the 'back end' too, like how scripting and programming works? Also its shaders, renderers, file formats...


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:16:31
content:
  Just the rendering and maybe what runs processing?
  oh and the shaders in neos cloud looks like they're setup for unity explicitly, an unreal client would need conversion


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:16:31
content:
  Ranking system, you rank up in game and I guess ncr is given out to players periodically? Higher rank more ncr?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:19:04
content:
  Gathering Stardust will result in gaining a higher rank with a higher staking percentage alongside a cool badge.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:23:02
content:
  yeah
  from what i've gathered the only thing they could do is create breakable links between FrooxEngine and the Unity engine, which we (community repos) could then substitute with links to whatever-else-engine (unreal, godot)

  this is the only way you could have multiple different "flavors" of the neos client that i could think of, which is why i'm kindof adamant about it being what happens
  could be completely wrong though, just thinking about the programming specifics

  and that interpretation doesn't update what's in the datamodel so it almost seems like a moot point (no new components & logix)
  i suppose we can optimize anything that's outsourced to unity in the current build
  would love more specifics, i love this infrastructure stuff + the possibility of neos continuing development.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:25:03
content:
  Is this going to be a separate application to be run or is this going to be built right into the current existing Neos application?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:26:36
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:27:12
content:
  Still, no clue how rendering will work considering shaders are grabbed off the cloud, and all the shaders are compiled as super specific unity shader code
  if we were to have the ability to change engines, we'd need to program some unity->other_engine translators


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:27:59
content:
  Funny how he’s specifically ignored any question relating to the actual existing Neos builds, and only responding to crypto questions.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:28:42
content:
  I keep getting a 403 forbidden whenever I try to access that page. I am currently on public wifi… is the page down or is it an issue on my end?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:29:57
content:
  I’m responding to things relevant to this update. Unreal client is something that is still very much work in progress.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:31:19
content:
  Could be, I am probably just going to try it when I get home to a pc, currently trying to sign in and the button doesn’t seem to go through


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:36:22
content:
  Small question: why does all the user-created folders (not shared ones) in the "inventory" tab are showing "FriendsList" before the name?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:36:46
content:
  I have users learning metaverse code right now to make creation. Should this stop and tell them to learn this unreal?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:41:54
edit_date: 2023-08-14 16:42:17
content:
  I'd like to know what my benefits would be of putting work into developing new software to use Neos and NCR.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:46:14
content:
  So you HAVE found a way to make backwards compatible the unity editor implementation in unreal somehow?? How does the transition from c# to c++ work? Are shaders compiled twice for each engine?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:52:49
content:
  We're putting together some initial Developer Awards, You would certainly get a lot of USDC for a compatible open source client either Unity (probably easiest) or other engine.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:53:57
content:
  Generally if you have an idea for something that will help Neos users Foundation will award you, you can either ping us before starting the project or retrospectively when its done.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:55:40
content:
  That's certainly something for a later update, wouldn't like to comment as that's very much work in progress.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 16:58:50
content:
  Also wondering, will this new Unreal Engine client be on steam?
  Considering potential steam terms issues that neos ran into back in the day?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:01:53
content:
  Makes sense, will it be a seperate steam product or an "addon" download or potentially a seperate branch as "beta" on the steam properties?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:04:27
edit_date: 2023-08-14 17:04:53
content:
  Neos already has multiple options when launching with Steam, so it could be possible that "Launch with Unreal" and "Launch with Unity" may be options in the future


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:08:48
edit_date: 2023-08-14 17:09:23
content:
  The problem i see with this is visibility, youd have to specifically tell most people about it although more visible than a beta option

  A second entty in the library like EX starbound and other games do could be best potentially


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:09:45
content:
  You likely won't get an answer to this. It's in Unreal terms that hierarchy can not be edited from within the game as is done in current Neos. There is *technically* a way to do it by having a sub-scene within the Unreal scene


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:12:38
content:
  Basically it would require making a game engine within another game engine, which is pretty unperformant. This may also be against their terms but I'm not that familiar


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:16:54
content:
  Seeing as Karel has made an announcement featuring it, it would seem that Karel and the supposed Unreal team have come up with a solution, with or without in-game editing, that puts it in a shippable enough state to warrant announcing an upcoming release.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:23:20
content:
  I'm still reading through this and trying to parse it all. One thing I did notice was that there is no discord link on the official website. There's a telegram and other social media but no discord.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 17:39:37
content:
  why is the website telling me to disable my 2fa protection instead of just telling me to use the /weblogin command?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 18:23:26
content:
  I'd like an official answer to that problem, as to how Unreal licensing would be compatible to what Neos is


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 18:30:33
content:
  I wonder as well. An open standard should have documentation. There's https://wiki.neosvr.com/ however there is not much documentation about the API or file formats


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 18:35:58
content:
  I was going off of memory before, here is the actual excerpt from Unreal EULA.

  [you may not:] "except as permitted under Section 4, allow any third party to use or access Licensed Content for the purpose of creating content (including, without limitation, for the purpose of using Licensed Content in world- or level editing tools, modeling tools, or user-generated content) for distribution to the public; provided, however, this restriction does not apply to UE-only content;


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 18:40:45
content:
  I won't elaborate on what this means or implies as I'm not qualified, but that is the text provided by them.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 18:41:56
content:
  Ahh, I found the answer, from the UE eula:
  5. Other Restrictions on Your Use of Licensed Content
  a. UE-Only Content
  “UE-Only Content” means Licensed Content that is designated as only permitted for use in conjunction with Unreal Engine and Unreal Engine-based products as designated by Epic, such as Twinmotion.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 19:56:16
content:
  It's nice that Karel has their priorities in place at least with this update, suuuuuper important to helping the platform, now wasting money is easier than ever lmao

  (In all seriousness, the new UI, if ported in game actually looks super sleek and I kinda vibe with it, just wish the AD didn't have it's main focus being on the NCR)


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 19:57:29
edit_date: 2023-08-14 20:06:05
content:
  I know right using to make the Unreal engine! because ya know there isnt another VR platform called Helios that did just that and well it failed :3


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 20:22:59
content:
  Karel has said a bit up that there will be a seperate build for steam as with the unity build currently


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 20:25:30
edit_date: 2023-08-14 21:12:48
content:
  That trailer of new update doesnt feel like its actually in the game. Feels more like a website UI edited on the ingame footage


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 21:57:08
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:01:50
content:
  The first part is an edited overlay, that's clearly not in game UI. 
  The second part that takes place on the terrain appears to be in unreal engine (could be wrong but there are some shading things that look very different to Neos)
  Third part, the part in space is Neos footage, 100%


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:06:30
content:
  I am kind of confused about the presentation video. It would have been better to present nothing. Obviously nothing that neos makes neos will work in this new client. Using a dev-tip alone is obviously impossible, as it would require to actually have a function behind that client, not only a unreal-world-example with an example-tool and an example-interface. Why would anyone show this as progress? Seriously?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:07:39
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:08:05
content:
  I can't even express my disappointment in that, but also myself for believing in actual progress coming from the new team.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:14:50
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:57:07
content:
  Positive change doesn’t happen overnight, it needs a lot of effort and perseverance. We are getting there step by step. For developers to have more independence which they want and need and possibly having multiple clients in the future is an important step towards that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:16:41
content:
  I agree that multiple clients are a good idea, but its not the lifeblood of neos. Having a look into neos from a perspective of the unreal engine could be incredible, but, its not really neos, isn't it, if it can't process all the custom objects that got made over many, many years now


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:17:14
content:
  And there is no way the unreal client could be made into anything resembling neos in any close future (of many years)


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:17:58
content:
  It has to be made the other way around. The unreal engine integrated into neos, not a example client made in unreal


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:19:04
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:19:38
content:
  I am sorry, but from the perspective of a developer, the objects currently existing in neos can't be just rendered by another client, short of simple objects tops


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:20:46
content:
  The engine neos uses is isolated from the actual complex code, at least from the decompile i work with plugins at


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:21:12
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:30:08
content:
  Yes good things take time, when I co-founded the company in 2014 there was no Neos and for the first few years it didn’t look like anything. If we looked at everything from the standpoint of currently and immediately then we couldn’t build anything. We have to work toward longer term goals as well as shorter term ones.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:22:51
content:
  I see. Well i hope you team will be able to actually get something to work in the future that can use, access and perhaps even change neos objects in a way that resembles an VR universe in the future. But i feel like someone trying to reimagine windows by copying its UI


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:28:09
content:
  I understand that it is difficult, i hope you will consider a bigger team if you really intend to create a VR software from scratch.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:30:00
content:
  The Foundation can support development making Neos better which helps NCR grow which provides more funds for the Foundation to support more projects making Neos better and so forth potentially creating a great snowball effect


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:48:21
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:52:07
content:
  For sure. Check out this older footage with a different cursor method. Our video overlay skills are off the hook jesus 🤣


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:54:10
content:
  Fair enough, guess I was incorrect about that. Default movie maker title cards and the fact this UI is a total regression from the dash didn't inspire much faith in me I won't lie. So I made an incorrect assumption.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:54:31
content:
  I don't think thats an overlay. It looks a lot like the time i used embedded browser windows in another version of unreal once. It also renderes the returned objects from the api in a similar way the website does. That said, its not entirely the wrong way to do that. Its just not what i hoped for as a presentation for what is to come.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:54:51
content:
  Because while this is a feat for one person to do over some weeks/month, its not what i hope for as a neos user.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:56:08
content:
  Yes, because neos has this ability, as in UIX, integrated. Thats exactly what i was pointing out as "yea well, its not what i want from neos".


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:56:59
content:
  wait so its an overlay from the perspective that its just a pane rendering the website, or that it is proper in game UIX?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:57:55
edit_date: 2023-08-14 22:58:16
content:
  Yeah also hard to ignore this new dash doesn't feature any customizability so useful userspace utilities are just being thrown away I guess.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:58:53
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:10:24
content:
  I've seen people build more impressive full games inside real Neos in an month in MMC.

  Displaying a single scrolling UI panel in Unreal in desktop mode is laughable


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 22:59:29
content:
  Yeah if that truly is just a window pane to a website and not in game UIX me calling it an overlay was the correct term.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:00:51
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:01:50
content:
  bro I got a detail wrong and you posted a video and response with the same kind of tone as if you were trying to own me on twitter. the immaturity is in the house dude.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:02:52
content:
  Karel I hope u read over what I sent you, also a question for the unreal section are we going to use lumen in vr as it's a bit finicky but it's possible to get working and is the project c++ or blueprint


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:03:55
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:12:01
content:
  It's not about having something wrong "dude", it's about trying to spin everything into a negative. Try thinking positively.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:05:54
content:
  I wasn't even being negative, all I did was explain what I thought each section was recorded in so people had an honest idea of how the trailer was produced. Only got negative when you felt the need to clap back as opposed to politely correct me.

  Which, on the subject you have yet to answer my question. is it rendering a website in game through a pane or is it in game UI?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:07:24
content:
  Not the only negative thing you mentioned, this is also quite a negative question. No this is not the webapp, regular UI.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:11:26
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:11:49
content:
  It actually wouldn't even be that bad if it would be a web-UI for the NCR bit. I would have done it that way at least.

  The objects from storage need to obviously be rendered in the ingame UI, as well as everything around it, if there is any consideration for a future update to make it "real" for players (so it can't be all web-UI).

  Question is if it actually is a good idea to work with already uploaded objects in the cloud, if the new engine will be unable to render most of them, expecially everything containing interactivity, code or UIX or anything similar.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:11:38
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:20:40
content:
  I have only talked like twice in total in this telegram. Once to introduce myself and say hello to the people who welcomed me and once to do the trailer breakdown. To re-iterate I only got negative in your words when you clapped back. If you consider factual statements about your presentation to be negative that speaks more to your confidence in your own work than anything.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:21:23
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:13:27
content:
  You have said that the UI is "clearly an overlay" which is a lie and FUD. Many users would believe you if we wouldn't show the older footage. It's so easy to troll and say things like these, anyone with an internet connection can do it in about three seconds. Debunking however takes effort. It may be more productive to be positive and work towards something then just hating on things and people. If you want to do that NeosVR Discord is a good place to do that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:24:56
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:26:18
content:
  The advantage of having multiple clients is that they have different advantages and are used for different things. The update today certainly wasn't about the Unreal client or it being a copy of NeosVR. It was amongst other things about all developers of all clients having more freedom and support including financial. NeosVR and hopefully other Unity clients have certainly a major role in the future of Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:28:01
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:28:42
content:
  Yes if you have multiple clients with different advantages that is a good situation. NeosVR is great on powerful desktops for creators. Not everyone has a powerful desktop and is a creator.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:28:34
content:
  im thinking that since neos uses unity or would use unreal as just the renderer, none of the issues apply


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:29:11
content:
  What is advantage of new unreal engine client? 

  Many concerns about potential legal issues/EULA regarding editors/custom content for unreal?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:29:19
content:
  Do inspectors function yet in the UE app?
  And is asset import from external source (cloud) a thing also yet?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:30:57
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:31:12
content:
  If the UE app works like the Unity app, there shouldn't be a difference.  Just a diff in rendering and speed.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:31:36
content:
  Also in that old version we see what looks like the MTC is there currently a functonal version of the MTC map that you could show us? would be cool to see the rest of it since its something familiar


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:33:12
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:53:39
content:
  Yes, I did say that since that is how it looked to me. Then as opposed to maturely correcting me you clapped back, alienating me and making yourself look really unprofessional in the process. Outside of being incorrect I have done nothing for you to draw the conclusion I'm "trolling" or "spreading FUD" or whatever. I just posted my own honest assessment of the trailer. Regarding that, the fact that I got it wrong might actually speak to a failing on the trailer's part to properly convey how the features are implemented. 

  To reiterate: the fact you chose to get all defensive and attack me as opposed to calmly pointing out my error says all it needs too about your confidence in your own work. Even if it was an overlay if you were making the progress you believe in there would be no need to come for me like that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:33:33
content:
  An important thing that is happening is the separation of what was formerly Solirax into separate parts - one of them is Neos Metaverse Foundation, other independent client developers. That helps all clients including NeosVR in multiple ways. Unreal build is work in progress and should be only one of many.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:34:17
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:34:29
content:
  How would we get our hands on the codebase that we'll build clients around? sure it's TBD but i'm hoping it'll be public on github.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:37:02
content:
  Karel, is there any documentation on the file format spec so that something like a web or android build could be created to read it?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:37:04
content:
  Solirax will probably be slowly dissolved. Closing a company is always much harder, more expensive and takes longer than founding one.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:37:41
content:
  It does looks like a video with an overlay of a website in the trailer.
  Its also what I thought first and -everyone- I have yet talked to.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:39:04
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:35:40
content:
  How about we shift our focus back to the actual update?😊

  We've put in a lot of effort to reach a point where we can share some development progress. It is not perfect no, but nothing is. It's a beginning. And instead of picking out flaws, we could consider the bigger picture. The potential of having multiple clients, more options, and improved scalability... It might take time, but these initial steps have been now made. 

  We have the Neos Foundation that is ready to support development of Neos ecosystem and welcomes efforts of all smart people who want to contribute. 

  And how about the new UI, which is way more user-friendly and will help us reach a wider audience. It's not a template and lot of people worked very hard to get it right. 

  And how about the upcoming staking and Cooper's Planet gamification. Very unique and while this may not directly impact NeosVR gameplay, it will significantly enhance overall usability and help NCR, which ultimately benefits all of us you could argue.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:40:28
content:
  I'm actually curious about this UE update, beyond the UI what are its current capabilities?
  Locomotion options? Editing capabilities? Graphics settings potentially?
  What all can the build currently do?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:40:46
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:57:44
content:
  This update is empty.

  Baseless phrasing around speculative theories are useless. You can talk about your hopes and dreams all you want, but it’s all fake until something real is released.

  Posting a single scrollable UI panel is a complete joke, and absolutely not something worth announcing.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:41:36
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:42:17
content:
  I appreciate that there was an update. It was sent out on the day it was meant to, included the long awaited new whitepaper, and neatly laid out the intentions and plan of the current Neos Foundation. It's actually pretty informative


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:42:42
content:
  That the Home of the new UI is nearly completly crypto based will... very likely not be taken well from the community.... specially when its not customizable anymore.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:43:43
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:59:47
content:
  Thank you so much for your constructive input @GrayBoltWolf . Why don't you ping us an email and apply for an award from Neos Foundation to make Neos experience better. You look like you know what you are talking about and we always love to hear from talented community members.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:43:43
content:
  Neos was a dream for years, you could say that about anything that it is speculative at first. We'd be still living in the woods/planes with this approach.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:43:46
content:
  It's worth acknowledging what was actually useful and good about the update instead of just immediately getting after the misc details of the promo video and plans that AREN'T released or announced yet. This was mostly a hey here's the plan and here's a sample, it wasn't meant to be a showing off of any new client or a release of new content, just a sample and a more clearly laid out plan. Unless I'm missing something.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:44:09
content:
  The one thing im kinda sad about is that the update video isnt in the cool style the website update video was


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:45:31
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:01:04
content:
  Lol.

  Have you ever actually logged into Neos?

  Have you once, setup an avatar, built a world, or even put on a headset?

  You people are so hard on the crypto train that you have completely lost what made Neos big in the first place.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:46:08
content:
  Honestly that's just how Gareth talks about things, I don't think it came from an angle against you. He likes to be attentive and knowledgeable about graphics and distinguishing engines styles materials and rendering processes.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:47:09
content:
  will existing content look/work the same in the new client? i am concerned about any breaking changes


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:47:28
content:
  We have no clue. From the Videos we got provided, nothing were suggesting that it still is editable.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:48:34
content:
  I have not met either in vr, and thus I can't truly believe either really exists. I only believe in things I can see* with my own* two eyes*


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:48:40
content:
  Sure so lets not present some baseless opinions as facts. It being not ugly doesn't mean it cannot be customized. It just means it was designed by people who know something about UI/UX.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:50:17
content:
  Can you give us some more technical details about the UI?
  Such as how it's structured component-wise and f for example it uses a similar facet system to the old one where you can dock modules to areas.

  Or if not how exactly it works under the hood, would be pretty interesting to know


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:50:55
content:
  Some level of customisation is good but it is a sensitive area. Apple knows this well for instance. Too much customisation can actually add more "stress" to the user. There is something like a paradox of choice, I am sure you are familiar with it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:52:36
content:
  I'd say a solid default is how you fix that but in my philosophy at least id wanna be able to edit every last piece of the ui so i can arrange and remove modules as i need for my own usecase.

  Worst case scenario you can always lock things behind an advanced settings mode with a disclaimer


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:52:38
content:
  Also. Judging by Gareth being banned after having a quite deep talk with normal critizism. 

  How are we not supposed to be in fear in here to be banned for when we try to talk about something?


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:53:07
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:53:22
content:
  Interface design is a lot about psychology as much as it is about visual feel. And nobody claims that it can be nailed down at the first instance but I think we had a pretty good go at it:)


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:53:11
content:
  That is very client specific. In NeosVR it would for sure be best implemented as facets in another client in a different way. This is the official interface of Neos Metaverse Foundation but we can't enforce its use. It's just a suggestion. A standard people can use but don't have to. I imagine one of many possible UIs.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:53:29
content:
  I do think it's a bummer about Gareth if that was a ban. Tbh if it is I'd reverse it, feels more disagreement discussion ey than bannable behavior ey


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:53:45
edit_date: 2023-08-14 23:55:52
content:
  I've been thinking allot about how multiple clients could even work programmatically.
  What I'm gathering is that the "Neos Foundation" will be CLIENT_BACKEND code, which will manage the datamodel (components & workers) and would be maintained by the Neos team.

  Then, individuals in the community/elsewhere would develop CLIENT_FRONTENDs (in whatever engine), which would handle rendering and other optimizations.

  So that the Neos team and other contributors can issue pull requests to the CLIENT_BACKEND code, that then easily propagate down to all the different Neos FRONTEND clients, and clients would all be compatible with each other and older neos content.

  I'd love confirmation on this or just a flat description of what the future will look like for neos client development, since It's looking to be pretty interesting in the future.

  also is that ingame ui component based or a webview? if it's comps, that's cool and im impressed


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:54:39
content:
  Life's a lot simpler when you just ban people who disagree with you.

  Honestly surprised they haven't banned me yet for sharing a differing opinion as well...


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:55:20
content:
  Me too, you do put out a lot more attitude. But you haven't decried the product enough for it I guess.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:57:03
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:06:54
content:
  I've only got 2500 hours in Neos, which is small compared to some of the others typing here in chat.

  So yeah, this crypto stuff is what killed my favorite platform 2 years ago, so it's crazy to see Karel pushing it more. But I guess it's free money for him so.....


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:57:13
content:
  Garath was saying things that are not true and presented them as facts not opinions. That is what trolls do and is clearly FUD.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:58:16
content:
  Garath stated the obvious, which was that your video looked very fake. In this day with ChatGPT and stablediffusion, a tiny video showing off a UI panel is weak


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:58:59
content:
  I've got 1288 hours in Steam Neos which is only a fraction since I used Neos long time before it even was on Steam and also used other builds.


type: message
date: 2023-08-14 23:59:44
content:
  It's a project and it needs funding, I'm getting it funded as I had for years. Pretty easy to understand.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:00:41
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:08:22
content:
  Do we all understand that development time actually costs money and that money has to come from somewhere?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:01:00
content:
  Ah see, that's where I think you might have it a little off. Gareth regularly pronounces that he knows where a visual comes from. He takes pride in his specific knowledge of knowing why things look how they look far as I know. After being corrected he actually took it pretty well and just went back to normal criticism, before you sorta spiralled into an argument with him about him being too negative. I don't think he was trolling at all, just discussing the new update.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:01:51
content:
  It isn't? It really did read like "play more, do more in game, get more NCR" but maybe I need to read the blackpaper again.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:03:01
content:
  I have like 4700 hours in Neos. This.... "unreal" version of it feels super odd, like... where are the building features? That's the whole reason why I play Neos in the first place.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:03:08
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:03:38
content:
  Have you even read his responses? He made it quite clear what he was trying to say. There was no Trolling or Fud involved.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:03:44
content:
  So the ncr staking has nothing to do with and is not influenced by the amount of time spent playing the game?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:05:52
content:
  The purpose of the mild gamification is a reward for people who spend time in Neos doing a wide variety of things in form of a higher staking rate. Stardust is a way to do that. Eg having random meteor strikes you can mine or not and go back to previsous activity in all worlds. The benefit of more pople being in Neos is pretty clear.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:05:59
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:06:25
content:
  i think the delniation trying to be made is that you dont gain NCR the rank is just used as a reward multiplier? at least thats what i gleam from skimming the paper


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:06:26
content:
  Please prove me wrong. But having a play to earn game, where the purpose is to find some rocks and hold trigger to mine them, it seems quite the grind and it'd occupy the player and keeping them from doing something productive


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:07:07
content:
  Not really, you have to be staking to get any rewards. It's just that they are higher if you spend more time in Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:07:36
content:
  As long as there's something in place to prevent a segmentalized community, I'm happy with open source 👍
  I guess then it's back to waiting, excited to see something like that come to fruition.

  Separately: In that extra video you posted, the hand of the player is moving like the steam build, but the reflections make it obviously unreal- so you've gotta have some kind of (wip?) backend_client that's properly interfacing with the data in the neos cloud. I know it's a stretch to ask this, but how much of the functionality from the original backend_client code has been remade in the new (wip) backend_client?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:08:36
content:
  That's an interesting question, would be probably good to have optional indication that there is a meteor strike somewhere in the world in case the user(s) are inside or not paying attention.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:09:11
content:
  So lets break it down a little bit.

  Cooper's Planet and staking Stardust is about giving Neos users a pretty unique and interactive experience - but it is not forced on anyone. You can simply choose not to. 

  We're talking about some soft gamification here - kind of like those quests you used to see in games like World of Warcraft.

  You will be able to walk aroud the map, shoot meteors filled with Stardust and earn staking percentage.

  And your rank will raise at the same time. There might be some other benefits in the future. At the moment it will be just one Neos world but again, this is a first step in making something happen. So please lets not spit on it completely. Maybe you can wait until it’s out, then spit😁


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:10:46
content:
  If it was p2e it would pay the user to play, not the case. Imagine a user has no NCR and is playing.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:11:28
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:12:03
content:
  Is the map in neos cloud as of right now? 
  There's allot of confusion in the discord, people think it's a separate executable.
  If it is in the cloud and it's just how it looks with the Unreal neos frontend client, I wonder how other already existing worlds in neos look under unreal (ez graphics update).


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:12:13
content:
  Not really relevant, but funny how it parallels, this is literally a mechanic in old school runescape. It's basically the best afk mining there is. Random meteor strikes somewhere in the world, you can mine it for stardust


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:14:01
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:14:14
content:
  It's not in the cloud yet. We have still more work to do. But things picked up a speed so I am sure we will be sharing more updates (and footages) soon.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:18:11
content:
  ON TOP OF staking, and with the requirement that you're already staking, is there a more play -> more pay mechanic?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:19:12
content:
  It's staking. A process that works well for crypto used by many projects. We added a nice mild gamification aspect that is very unique and tailor made for Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:20:54
content:
  We had to choose to do it either on the blockchain or with managed wallets and chose those as its easier for new users.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:22:59
content:
  Will the Coopers planet world with crypto integration come out with the unreal client used to preview it, or is that probably gonna be released at a later date?
  If the unreal client is bundled with it, then we've got a really nice graphix update coming our way.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:23:09
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:23:30
content:
  Yes you could say there is a secondary P2E component, but presenting the whole process and update as P2E is not fair.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:23:11
content:
  Okay, this is one reason then. Staking gets NCR into managed wallets. What's the benefit for Neos to have NCR in managed wallets and why is that worth enough to pay for this?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:23:32
content:
  so it's all the benefits of crypto, at the cost of not actually owning any crypto at all, and if Neos gets hacked or something it's gone. 

  nice


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:23:57
content:
  So you have crypto without having direct access to the blockchain, and thus no control over your own currency


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:26:18
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:27:04
content:
  As I wrote earlier you have to choose either managed wallets staking or blockchain not both. The thinking is managed is where most people has NCR and is easier. And if Neos Cloud gets hacked that would be a bad situation no matter where staking takes place.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:30:18
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:30:29
content:
  But there IS a P2E component. If people are allergic to peanuts, and your dish only has a little peanut extract, the answer to "is this made with peanuts" needs to be a very clear yes. This is less life threatening but I think the analogy holds.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:32:00
content:
  Checking my understanding of this, the current steam neos is basically one of the clients that have chosen to directly interface with inventory using API endpoints. Other clients may go the same path, and some might just use a webview to this new official website?
  That makes more sense, since everything UI in Neos prior has been built on components and a datamodel, instead of through any other medium (like a webview.)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:33:08
content:
  Because playing alone is not enough to earn on one hand and if you are not playing you can still be earning.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:35:09
content:
  No? At least that isn't the point of staking. Staking looks very much like that, but that isn't the reason behind it


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:35:38
content:
  Not everything with an appreciation is a saving account, there are bonds and term deposits which I think are closer analog to staking


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:36:10
content:
  Is the system you plan to use basically this? https://playtoearndiary.com/faqs-what-is-play-to-earn-staking-in-crypto/


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:38:10
content:
  That article is actually a good one to explain the difference, for example Ethereum has staking - it's not a game and there is no playing


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:39:19
content:
  I get the staking of Ethereum, there is a reason for that and it's part of the PoS system.
  But what is the reason for staking NCR and how does that help Neos?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:41:35
content:
  It helps Neos Credits price because to stake you have to hold them. Which helps to finance development. Also it can help attract new players and do something for existing ones.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:45:48
content:
  Okay, staking would mean, people discover the in game wallet. Make them discover the P2E part and join the P2E client part of Neos to try earn something


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:45:54
content:
  If we have more funds we can give more funds to developers. Scarcity helps the price - if those NCR are in your Neos Account wallet the whole month they have not been sold which helps the price. Having staking gives users a nice feeling that they get something each month and being on lists of projects with staking helps as well and makes it easier for NCR to be listed on more exchanges.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:46:51
content:
  Karel You can keep polishing and trying to reword every thing to Spin things a in a more favorable light its P2E regardless of how u try to reword it you are Playing a game and earning something so move on to the more important part of showing how the stake is going to be valued and other areas as it seems like its all comming out of thin air


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:52:01
edit_date: 2023-08-15 00:53:23
content:
  Sorry, I don't usually read charts. I mean volume jumped from $580 to like $18,000 on one exchange. That wasn't the value I was looking for


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:52:57
content:
  Volume certainly increased but we have to do much more to get to a healthy state of things. Many steps between here and there.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 00:57:17
content:
  The nice thing is that our long terms supporters already have Neos Credits and if some people buy them to stake them that's a double win.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:00:41
content:
  We have to make sure there are plenty other reasons to hold at that point by imrpoving Neos, having Neos Store and Neos Jobs.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:03:25
content:
  Can we get confirmation that a cloud compatible engine is being built right now?
  We're just assuming it off of that video's Neos-esque hand movement. I just want it simply stated, people don't take implicit news easily.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:04:36
content:
  Staking isn't really a utility, as you just get NCR for holding NCR. It's like looping back onto itself


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:06:32
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:09:46
content:
  Today's update was about the new UI, transformation of Solirax into separate parts like Neos Metaverse Foundation helping break the developer deadlock, details on upcoming staking and teasing Cooper's Planet


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:09:20
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:09:54
content:
  We used a WIP Unreal build to shoot parts of the video, it's a good example of why it will be great to have multiple clients but not the core message of the update.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:12:23
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:12:59
content:
  No the idea is to let multiple clients by multiple developers access Neos Cloud. Preferably open source ones.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:12:46
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:12:59
content:
  Nothing is being moved away, we are simple adding more options. Opening up for more possibilities. Unreal is just one of them.🙂


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:14:57
content:
  We'll be certainly sharing the source file for the UI graphics so developers or even users can implement it if they choose so


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:17:15
content:
  BUT- the unreal video is just an example where a behind the scenes new "NeosEngine" is hosting a player, and the rendering/input/etc is just outsourced to unreal, right? 
  It isn't just an unreal project disconnected from neos made to look like neos is what i'm getting at. If it properly communicates with neos cloud w/out being dependent on unreal, that's big news.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:17:16
content:
  Why not open-source the whole thing? 
  From the looks of it, it looks like a react native frontend which is pretty easy to share on GitHub


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:18:14
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:18:47
content:
  It would also give a reference implementation to devs given I don't see any official dev documentation being linked on the frontpage


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:18:40
content:
  Well, okay, I am not familiar with the UE EULA. Though there are two things that catched my eye while skimming over it.
  1. No FOSS. You cannot create software in UE that is open source
  2. Content is UE-Only. Whatever is created with UE stays in UE
  (Disclaimer: IANAL)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:20:12
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:20:51
content:
  So, this is what confuses me then. Mentioning UE, talking about Neos Cloud for content and wanting to go open source. Those things don't seem to mix or I haven't seen, how those could work together


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:23:07
content:
  Devs will be sharing what they can when it's done under appropriate licenses. Now it's very much work in progress.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:24:30
content:
  UE licensing is certainly complicated and not everything we'd like to do can be done. However a lot of things can be done and as I said earlier not every client has to do everything.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:28:01
content:
  Why not start it as open to begin with? It would build trust with the community and allow for more feedback


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:28:59
content:
  What language is the newer neos client backend codebase in? If it's c++ that's kindof cool, quite different though
  I guess the C# modders in the community are going to end up making their mods into different (or combined) clients


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:55:39
content:
  Would be nice to have some kind of log that is updated maybe weekly to see what is actually being worked on instead of having a small announcement every now and then or just some words thrown in a chat.
  Like a dev blog or something.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 01:55:47
edit_date: 2023-08-15 01:56:32
content:
  Stardust ranks will be updated automatically based on the amount of collected Stardust in Cooper’s Planet. 

  We will be definitelly sharing more details with the next update. Thank you for your question😊️️️️️️


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 02:11:37
edit_date: 2023-08-15 02:56:04
content:
  Maintaining a log is a nice idea although it does add extra time and effort. We will however do our best to have more regular updates and more transparency overall. Today was just one first but significant step after a very long time and I think it’s a lot to digest for many people for now. 🙂

  Personally I am grateful for all the responses that are on more positive end but also appreciate these that are more critical. Especially people who took time to point at some glitches that we can fix. Thank you.🙏 

  It might not be all that all of you have dreamed of or expected from this update, but I really appreciate the overal constructive discussion and all your questions. I hope in the upcoming days we can clear any confusions and that with all future updates, we can keep moving into better space. 🚀


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 03:20:33
edit_date: 2023-08-15 03:33:17
content:
  Pretty excited about the neos foundation as a codebase, future's bright if it's as I've detailed in my previous messages (new engine independent of frontend engine)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 03:22:57
edit_date: 2023-08-15 03:33:12
content:
  As long as the project moves forward and the team is passionate about the success of the platform, we're happy


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 03:36:15
content:
  @malooniac just based ui question. What means TNCR? It means Testnet NCR? (I can't find under whitepaper and in Telegram).


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 03:40:28
edit_date: 2023-08-15 03:55:47
content:
  Hello😊 I think you are referring to the second Unreal video that Karel has shared?😊
  TNCR = Test NCR. It was just in progress footage. No need to be too concerned about it. But kudos on spotting it!👀


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 03:55:34
edit_date: 2023-08-15 04:02:46
content:
  I reffered from second Unreal Video and under Website ( https://account.neos.com ).
  Under Website, also show TNCR in Neos Credits.
  Status: Registered
  Neos Credits: **** NCR / 0 TNCR

  TNCR= Test NCR Right. Thanks!

  I look forward to being able to try out the Unreal products! I'm really tempted to ask a lot of questions, but I don't want your answers to slow down the development and the establishment of the Foundation, so I just read answer from other users question, and mainly research from answers.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 04:14:15
edit_date: 2023-08-15 04:14:44
content:
  I see! Another little glitch to fix then, thank you so much for picking up on it! 🙏 And please do ask away anything you like. I hope myself, Karel or anyone from the community here can answer in a friendly and polite manner🙂️️️️ And thank you so much for your supportive words!


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 05:22:47
edit_date: 2023-08-15 05:27:03
content:
  Could this be addressed? Is Neos moving to be incorporated under the UAE? Like, understandably having as large of an LGBTQIA+ community as neos does this sort of association is a major red flag and I'd really like to understand the implications.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 08:21:43
content:
  Karel actually explained this to me, hes wanting to dissolve solirax slowly in favor of Neos Foundation.

  You can find the message by searching "dissolve"


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 08:29:56
edit_date: 2023-08-15 09:02:32
content:
  The UAE are one of the most crypto friendly jurisdictions globally so having a legal entity there is very useful from that point of view. It’s much harder for an organization to do crypto than a natural person. We are of course aware of the limitations of the jurisdiction and would not argue for it to be the only legal entity.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:11:41
edit_date: 2023-08-15 13:13:37
content:
  I'm a bit curious about the "Cooper's Planet" idea given it's almost complete and total departure from what Neos has aimed for in the past. Releasing official worlds in the past have been mostly inspired by impressive and clean implementation of something that is mostly focused on education and impressive technical demonstration. It's quite strange to see a pretty average level game world be announced in this way. Because it definitely seems like a barebones frontend world with some fancy api calls.

  It also seems as though Cooper's world is using features that may not necessarily be available to other creators on the platform, how will this demo compare to what content creators on the platform have access to? Will games built by others in Neos be able to increase your level, affect your balance, etc.? If so, how are you ensuring that a world created in the future won't be able to just drain your wallet through api abuse?

  I think there I also have concern about the security of this. It's quite easy to log into Neos using a third party client when you know what api calls to hit. Is there any effort to ensure someone doesn't immediately mine the release for api endpoints and claim all the available stakeable tokens?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:13:19
edit_date: 2023-08-15 13:14:25
content:
  How would you be able to claim all availalbe stakeable tokens? The staking seems to only allow for up to 20% p.a.
  The remaining NCR that are up for staking are at most 10,000,000. To claim all of them within a year, you'd have to stake 50,000,000 NCR. There aren't even that many on the market


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:22:44
edit_date: 2023-08-15 15:30:54
content:
  Also, as someone who's spent quite a bit of money on Neos and NCR, and even more on VR hardware, I'm a bit concerned about the business value of the current direction. I've worked in software for over a decade now and typically the cost to production value of switching core frameworks is so high that it will kill projects. Switching to Unreal Engine is definitely looking like a similar situation to what I've seen in the past. 

  What is the product value and business worth in switching to a more restrictive platform for Neos? I feel that any potential investors with experience will see this as a major red flag, given the common history of projects that do this. 

  Switching core frameworks is almost always a money sink and causes significant delay in features and improvements... and Neos desperately needs improvement. 

  Could you please provide an understanding of how the business value of these changes would stack up to work on improving the performance of Logix, increasing the platform (aka: deployment to more devices), making the game more accessible to more people with varying capabilities of hardware, etc.? Because I am aware that Unreal Engine tends to add an extreme level of complexity in these aspects and I'm worried it will cause significant delay in improvements to the platform.

  Ultimately, the project is lacking in many aspects given it's age and time to mature. Many things need actual improvement beyond a UI refresh (which typically offers the lowest direct value for the operation of a project of this size)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:25:58
edit_date: 2023-08-15 13:26:32
content:
  I guess there are about 30M NCR available to hold for staking. With a 4%-20% p.a. that'd mint 1.2M - 6M NCR at most a year. Given that staking would actually cause minting of the remaining 9.3M NCR


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:33:24
edit_date: 2023-08-15 14:23:48
content:
  This is extremely upsetting to me, personally. I do not want my work to go toward propping up a government that wants me wiped from the face of the earth. I suppose I understand that there are adventitious tax structures there but it is hard to look past the harm the UAE does.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 13:59:28
content:
  At present, Solirax wallets possess >70% of the total NCR supply. Staking rewards pool: 15%. Market liquidity: 15%, with ~10% active. Consequently, only ~5 million NCR is in circulation. I reckon depleting the Staking pool for rewards would take no less than 5 years.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 14:04:09
content:
  Where did you get those numbers? Which walltes are Solirax wallets and did you consider that an amount of these wallets represent in-game NCR?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 14:53:42
content:
  https://web.archive.org/web/20220202002927/https://neos.com/

  according to the website before it was replaced with one that doesn't show the minting progress for some reason, there were approximately 9.5 million NCR remaining to be minted.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 14:55:14
content:
  A lot of NCR was bought back as part of the buyback programme. There is only a small amount of NCR in circulation (in the market)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 14:58:06
content:
  Interesting, I actually somehow managed to not hear about the buyback lol. So... they minted ~80.9% of the tokens and then bought them back so that they could redistribute them as staking?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 15:36:33
content:
  Minting was done by either people on the platform, or from a portion of the patreon income. I don't think Karel themselves really minted much if any. But he did do buybacks, and bought A LOT of it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 15:37:51
content:
  There's like 9.3M NCR left for minting, which I guess will be minted through the staking process. Whatever NCR had been bought back looks like company assets


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 15:39:18
content:
  I’m glad there’s more clarity around Neos and NCR again. Looks like quite a few whales are accumulating NCR now.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 16:14:05
content:
  These 9.3 million NCR have been distributed as follows: 7.6 million NCR (Staking rewards pool) + 2 million NCR community fund. Thus, the ICO process has concluded.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 16:15:46
content:
  Great vision in the updated white paper, I’ll be staking my NCR as soon as it’s live. Love the idea of the Neos Foundation, mild gamification and an open ecosystem.   Well done team!


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 16:18:27
content:
  NCR has completed ICO + has Staking = making it easier for listing on centralized exchanges. This facilitates liquidity for NCR to pay out Staking rewards. Being listed on certain CEXs can boost NCR's value, and with a substantial amount of NCR staked, it will enhance NCR's stability and maintain price equilibrium.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 16:23:49
edit_date: 2023-08-15 16:26:01
content:
  Karel has ingeniously and coolly devised the NCR Staking plan. The percentage tiers of Staking are fantastic, benefiting NCR holders and creators alike. It serves as an incentive for many to explore in-game features within Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 16:32:38
edit_date: 2023-08-15 16:37:14
content:
  Took a day for some reason, but the big crypto fans have crawled out of the woodwork to praise the new plan


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:06:44
content:
  Would be better to say "no because x" not GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT LEAVE NOW SECURITY which is how an instant ban comes across


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:09:54
edit_date: 2023-08-15 17:10:12
content:
  Nothing creates uncertainty or fear quite like immediate instant unchallengeable bans that can't be appealed or reasoned against :/


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:11:28
content:
  I agree that this administration style will lead to a yes-man mentality that ultimatly will kill this project, no mather how well intended. You need the community and expecially creators behind you and they are often the difficult ones. The ones you currently continue to locking out. You really should choose administrators you trust.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:12:17
content:
  Scary stuff, man. I'm not all about that life. If you aren't what they're accusing you of being, it's a lot more convincing if you say no I'm not than silently shutting them up.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:24:01
content:
  There was no lie involved at all. The message said "weird how y, sounds similar to x" with x being something you disagree with. They were just sharing how things look to them. Their perception itself was all they shared, and it led to an instant ban. Do you see how that looks bad?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:25:29
content:
  "Huh that ash kinda looks like snow" should not get me instantly banned from an ash appreciation chat.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:29:34
content:
  Much like with Gareth, I think the ban should be reversed. It was unwarranted, unfair, and again just makes you look worse in the eyes of your community here. A warning, once again, would have been preferable. Even better would have been a denial, or argument. Basically anything but passively silencing them


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:31:06
content:
  As a comedic explanation, as well as an explanation that errs on the side of not getting MYSELF banned, someone was instabanned for bringing up triangles.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:31:37
content:
  Yes, but shouldn't be. Thats why its good that people speak out about that. Bans are not only bad for the community and reducing the amount of people that actually care, it also causes a lot of insecurity and obviously people not speaking the truth anymore. As a result you get a Yes-Man-Bubble that kills projects. Something that the people that care still try to prevent.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:33:11
edit_date: 2023-08-15 17:33:49
content:
  This Telegram seems like a yes man bubble to you? 🤣 All I see is hate towards crypto that funds Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:34:43
edit_date: 2023-08-15 17:35:11
content:
  Yes comparing Neos to x which is a higly illegal business and the opposite of what we are doing is pretty bad 😄


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:35:55
content:
  If you want to avoid "FUD" then remove the "U" yourself by being more transparent and more clear rather than using bans and empty words as a communication method


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:35:59
edit_date: 2023-08-15 17:36:34
content:
  As an unrelated example. "I'm worried that you're evil" should be responded to with something like "I'm sorry you got that impression here's why I'm not evil". Instead what you've done is go "SILENCE!!!!" and exiled them


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:36:30
content:
  Well, depending on the time of day its hard to find people that know neos is a vr software. Not saying it something in general, but you do losing a lot of creators, expecially since the last weeks you agressivly banning, and even deleting the messages that caused those banns. I really, really think you should choose impartial administrators of YOUR own choise that can be impartial with this.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:37:29
content:
  For the record, the "SILENCE!!!!" part of this is not an exaggeration. Physically erasing what someone says and then removing them from your presence is at the very least a capital silence with four exclamation points


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:37:56
content:
  You assume they were trolling. What if they were confused? Concerned? What if you could have changed their mind?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:38:15
edit_date: 2023-08-15 17:38:47
content:
  Does everyone here just write nonsense in your opinion? Surely at some point after hearing the community concerns over and over you'd think maybe there's something wrong?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:38:35
content:
  Or, let's say they were trolling. What if someone more silent felt the same way? What if they still do, but now they haven't been given a counter argument?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:39:23
content:
  Does “I think crypto is stupid and I want nothing to do with it in my VR social game” count as a troll? Or just a valid criticism/concern/complaint?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:40:48
content:
  For transparency: Someone implied very vaguely that crypto reminds them of a shady business practice.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:46:08
content:
  They sent the message, it was hardly reacted to, and in 15 minutes it was erased silently by Karel and the user banned.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:47:20
content:
  No acknowledgement Karel ? Only ban?

  Concerning treatment of investor

  I wish for clarification on changes and business decisions, as well as others


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:50:51
content:
  We want to have many compatible clients and have development independent of Neos Tounfation to solve the problems Neos has because devs stopped working


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:51:35
content:
  I’ve also seen a lot of nonsense in here that I fired them, not true at all the stopped sending invoices even thou I told them to continue


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:54:00
content:
  The dev doesn’t want to open source it and is also not willing to develop it so developing it again is pretty much the only option


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:55:10
content:
  Multiple clients sounds nice, but really it comes down to this "asteroids" (the gamification) that basicly causes staking to be more insecure for the single person. Because rationally there will be people that invest efford, time and resources into getting a high rank and selling that state to others sub-stakers so that they get more and the sub stakers.

  I have seen exactly this happening in many gamifications and even crypto projects.

  More then that, i am worries that obviously the only client that will have this asteroids will be the Unreal client. If its not, people will create clients with the single purpose of mining this asteroids automaticly. Hell i might even do that myself to play the system (obviously i would not tell anyone about that)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:55:13
content:
  attempt to login to wiki is met with:

  Oops! An Error Occurred
  The server returned a "404 Not Found".
  Something is broken. Please let us know what you were doing when this error occurred. We will fix it as soon as possible. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:56:37
content:
  You are assuming a lot of things here please wait for the next update where we explain how it works exactly, these things have of course been considered.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 17:56:55
content:
  Even daikatana had less chaos during development; not sure how you're gonna get the trust of a single investor with a whitepaper, a 50s video and no transparency at all


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:03:27
content:
  Dev's are usually revered by the community. You get the brunt as CEO obviously now and there would be some critics to devs if things don't work as expected, but it is worth that at least some of the devs communicate with the community from time to time. If you don't want them in a public chat with people, consider a 1 hour weekly meething with the devs and not all of them have to be there. One or two would be enough.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:05:47
content:
  We have tried to reach devs over and over again they don’t want to have a sensible discussion that is the point. They just want to Zuckerberg a co-founder.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:06:17
content:
  Oh yeah the wikis authentication needs some fixing too
  It opens a new window for authentication, then doesnt return the data to the original window, but instead continues inside the window opened for authentication. sometimes it also just immediately logs you out if you navigate anywhere or drops you onto home instead of the correct article


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:06:43
content:
  I meant your developer team actually. To communicate with the community. I am sorry if i was imprecise.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:06:57
content:
  Push me out so they can do whatever. So ok now the clients is independent, they can do whatever and hopefully continue development.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:07:52
edit_date: 2023-08-15 18:08:03
content:
  We have talked multiple times and all you did was repeating nonsense about lawyers and how this is a divorce an I should pay you.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:09:56
content:
  If you want my opinion, I think one thing that would help forward Neos's goals is to consider subsequent means of communication. 

  If we do want to combat misinformation, whatever it may be, the best way to combat that is to utilize the new website, the twitter, etc. We're not going to accomplish anything just in this telegram, we need to reach out.

  I know a considerable portion of the community feels alienated. Like anything in life, good communication is key to success, and we have the tools to take the U out of FUD.

  I suggest that we compile a list of FAQs about the recent update and post them online, and pin them to this chat. Otherwise we're just going around in circles.

  I want the project to move forward. And I'm willing to help accomplish this


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:10:14
content:
  we need a document that outlines what exactly is planned with multiple clients and open sourcing

  I've had to extrapolate info on this topic, and unless these changes are done in very specific ways, they will be redundant and a waste of time.

  If this company is remaking the frooxengine codebase, with substitutable / swappable links to an engine, then multiple clients make complete sense. With this idea you could have an "easy" client for beginners, an advanced one for creators, or more custom clients for specialized neos usage.

  if it isnt bluntly specified in an easy to understand announcement, people are going to assume the company is wasting time switching to a new engine, and think that it's all pointless

  there's real and exciting stuff going on here, but to the naked eye it looks bland, pointless, and wastefull


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:11:16
content:
  Ok so why there has been no development of NeosVR for two years? Why are you holding Neos users hostage


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:16:07
content:
  Why would you expect a good product from a developer/employee being told to create something that they do not inherently agree or like working with? More so, is it not their right to simply cease working if it is of no benefit to them? Whether your ideas of how to transact and exchange in Neos is good or bad, you seem like you want to force people to do things they simply don't want. Why not hire new devs if the existing ones aren't interested? Or simply take the idea to a different product altogether?

  From the perspective of a Neos user, it seems like the ideas being pushed are being pushed against both customers and employees. I'm confused on why that seems like a good idea, I guess. It's like a car company trying to produce a car with square wheels and being confused on why the workers at the manufacturing plant refuse to man the assembly line.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:20:24
content:
  I'm talking about whatever reason "there has been no development of Neos in 2 years." If you think there are other reasons you want to attribute to that beyond "web3 bloat on a sandbox platform," by all means. I'm not the people who aren't developing. I'm just someone who's been on an undeveloped platform for the last 2 years.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:23:10
content:
  I remember talk about a modular UI for neos before the hiatus where the currency stuff could be removed, yet the new UI has dropped customization


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:24:00
content:
  All right. This will be the final part of my shtick before I go back to observing.

  Karel Why should I play Neos? In your own words, why is it worthwhile?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:24:17
content:
  The current community has been shaped trough multiple methods to consist of people who hate on crypto and mostly are furries. That is not very inclusive and an unfortunate fact, however I see Neos as a place for everyone. Every person is a potential Neos user. 
  Devs have made it incredibly hard for me to secure funding. My choice was bankrupcy or crypto and I think I made the better choice.
  As for open sourcing that is something that we agreed on and should be done. The benefits are major and pretty clear. Almost no downsides.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:24:58
content:
  It also appears to be missing basic social features like muting the mic. Is it a social platform or a web3 wallet?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:25:58
content:
  Muting your mic totally is a feature. There's a button in your dash menu and on desktop you can just press M to mute and unmute.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:26:17
content:
  Neos is great because you can create stuff directly in it in multiplayer which results in a good creative experience which results in conetent which results in good non creative experiences as well.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:28:37
edit_date: 2023-08-15 18:32:58
content:
  Yeah by making the UI so complicated for no reason that you have to talk to furries, that makes the community over time almost exclusively furries as it feels like thei clubhouse to non furries


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:28:47
content:
  Most of the existing UI is modular with facets already, you can make, edit remove any of them. If you use steam. you can just remove the facet if you don't want to see the tokens not available thing. This 'new' UI that appears in the trailer karel posted is some work in progress but doesn't appear like it would support facets as is.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:28:54
content:
  The crypto part of this is kind of definitively not true, There's a very decent portion of Neos who believe in Crypto, and think it has it's use-cases, But specifically think that NCR could have been handled dramatically better. Maybe on your second try, it'll be better, but know there are people who believe in Crypto, it's just always the bad side of things that pokes out the most.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:29:24
content:
  Okay, but how is this any different from Minecraft? Roblox? Gmod? I'm genuinely curious, like what I'm trying to ask is in your eyes, what makes Neos special


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:29:49
content:
  The UI is so complicated because it's a complete engine with a social aspect inside it. People have just come around to learning it and adapting to it to help others, furry or not.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:30:00
content:
  Yes if someone says something positive about crypto the get piled on by about 5 haters what a great place to be


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:31:03
content:
  When crypto and an "economy" is forced into people when it would be easier and cheaper to just use booth to buy assets I can see why


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:31:34
content:
  No the UI is complicated because its not done by a professional who understands how it’s done. The default Ui could be really simple and welsoming to new people with advanced features being hidden for later when the user is more familiar.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:31:34
content:
  There are a lot of Furries who like Crypto, and a lot who dont.

  Go figure though that a very high percentage of people Who Code, and perform other technical field positions are apart of the Furry experience.

  Beyond just the development team at Neos, the community itself has helped shape Neos into what its become, and Furries have a lot to do with this.

  Would you not say that they've contributed to Neos's success?

  and if people dislike something enough that people who like it leave, would you try to erase the very thing that Made Neos successful to gain in clientele that would not make it as inclusive as been stated before?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:31:39
content:
  ...I have regular healthy conversations about crypto in Neos, with people who often say they don't know how crypto works or say they don't care for it. I've explained the benefits of a good crypto system that's well managed to users in Neos, and alot of them have sat and listened to me, and said i've made good points. That's not getting piled on by haters, that's people being curious about stuff that could be good, if handled well.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:32:11
content:
  Now its overly complicated on purpose so people can feel better explaining it to beginners and drive out those who are not like them


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:32:37
content:
  Is there a reason why somehow you cant talk to the non furries for this?

  Im confused why it somehow requires furries as a group for a ui style


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:33:13
content:
  WTF DOES FURRIES HAVE TO DO WITH NEOS
  yes, a large portion of the userbase are furry. That means nothing in this debate.
  This shouldn't be something mentioned in any capacity (Except edge cases.)


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:34:20
content:
  Have you ever seen the UI for Unity? It's pretty comfortable as a developer, but yes some padding to make it easier for new users is always welcome. But UI design shouldn't have to be blamed on furries imo, since Neos is in Beta and was going through changes in UX during it's update lifespan.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:34:27
content:
  Notice that in the Japanese community furries do not dominate as they do in english speaking yneos. They have been saved by the language barrier.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:34:31
content:
  I mean the community is what it is regardless of why. The "why" isn't really important. Calling it not inclusive is accurate, but you could say Apple isn't very inclusive as it doesn't take Android APKs or allow custom ROMs or any of the other selling points of Android phones, but Apple also has a user base of people who like their products. What you're telling me here is that the Neos user base is "people who don't like crypto" and "furries." Which I guess is unfortunate when you're trying to sell a product that involves crypto, sure.

  But the devs are still "people who don't like crypto" either and my original point is - what's the point of trying to both develop  a crypto containing product on devs who don't like or want to develop crypto, to users who don't like crypto? You say "every person is a potential Neos user," but.. I'd refer to Hiatus' question - why play Neos? You say, "you can create stuff directly in it." So your target audience is creative people. That's a pretty specific segment of people, and... furries are kind of known for being creative. Not to mention generally of a political and philosophical mindset that tends to be against crypto. Ergo, it seems like your pitch for Neos as a whole is going to encourage the audience that you are claiming is "unfortunate."

  But be that as it may, the original question stands - you asked why there's been no development, and the answer is they just don't believe in the product. I'm confused at the insistence on keeping it the way you want it to be despite their lack of belief in it. It's anyones right to like or dislike something. You can't make them like crypto. Or if you want to try, the effort thus far doesn't seem to be attempting that? I don't understand the strategy here.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:35:52
content:
  Insulting a demographic of players, here being Furries, and blaming them for Neos' usercount being low falls under the direct definition of FUD, just to warn you, Karel.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:36:12
content:
  Even with the language barrier, they're still the same people at the core of us. They just can't speak directly to you without having to worry about translation errors.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:37:04
content:
  As I said I think Neos should be for everyone and when I see one group being dominant I have to fight to make it more welcoming for other groups as well. If there is so much hate on crypto that btw funds Neos we have to fight that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:38:08
content:
  If someone is so stauch on not liking furries that they dont want to play neos i dont undertand how the UI is where the breaking point is for them considering NEOS is for everyone so they would still meet plenty of furries

  The UI needs improvement (as in current Neos UI in game) but the UI requires furries part is kinda confusing as anyone furry or non furry can explain the UI to you


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:39:17
edit_date: 2023-08-15 18:40:19
content:
  Yes the UI needs improvement I have been pushing for about 8 years now to hire a professional to have a great default UI for beginners


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:39:24
content:
  This seems like a looping argument. Neos isn't developed because it's complicated, but is complicated because it's not being developed?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:40:11
content:
  I don't think there is ever a valid reason to marginalize a group of people with a shared arbitrary characteristic.

  All it does is alienate people who do support you because well, all they have in common is an arbitrary characteristic that is not related.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:40:27
content:
  Hey, most people are welcome to new players. But didn't the issue start from far differing perspectives in the crew? Most of the team treated it as just an engine and wanted to keep monetization as one of the last goals to hit once they got more of Neos' core development finalized. Neos has shown to be really great for self-expression, which is why there are so many furries.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:40:57
content:
  Two things, Crypto never funded Neos. The Patreon did. It made over 60k a month (Which for the record, you hid the money the patreon was making), while Crypto, due to the poor management of it, was, at some times, sure, higher than that, but at most, it was barely even getting close. People can watch this stuff, Karel. There is hard evidence against Neos being funded by the Crypto systems in the game.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:41:24
content:
  Have you ever seen any example of a new, non-furry Neos user who was driven out by someone billed to explain Neos to newbies simply because they didn't like the kind of person they were?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:42:22
content:
  That is definitively not true. I could ask 100 different people, and maybe 4 of them would say it was because of the crypto that they did patreon stuff.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:43:06
content:
  Yup for a long period it was cheaper to subscribe to patreon to get ncr then to mint it so a lot of users just subbed to patreon to get discount ncr. Once that became no longer viable the patreon started to decline in value.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:43:14
content:
  Theres a portion of people who dont care about NCR but the 60k was mostly for NCR as the ratio was extremely nice


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:44:23
content:
  People joined when NCR went up....then people left when NCR went down...

  How many of those individuals "actually used" Neos during this time or just used it as a wallet for Crypto?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:46:45
content:
  So then my next question is thus,

  Who gets to decide whats best for Neos?
  Patreon investors who actually use the platform
  or Patreon Investors who paid for NCR?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:46:53
content:
  A lot of people hopef for Neos to grow into something much better woth better default UI Neos Store and Neos Jobs bezter performance that orders of magnitudes more people will want to use


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:47:02
content:
  Wasn't there no public facing updates for years outside of a few security exploits that were hastily done?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:47:42
content:
  The 60k was not mostly for NCR. I can actively get evidence to back that up too, As I was one of the people who spent over £200 at one point, infact, I kept it for over 6 months. I know several other people who have donated over that amount, to support it. People who actively didn't really care for Crypto.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:48:12
edit_date: 2023-08-15 18:48:21
content:
  I didnt buy NCR, I paid into supporting the Developers of Neos, especially before all of this happening


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:48:22
content:
  Yeah but that's still going into my previous question.

  You can't force people to develop what you want. They had a vision. You had a vision. They disagreed with your vision. Why expect them to do what goes against theirs?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:49:01
content:
  Well now you know the answer to your "why has it not been developed for 2 years."

  You didn't sign up for what they wanted to develop.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:50:56
content:
  My point is, the answer to "why things are stuck" seems pretty obvious to me. You are the immoveable object versus whoever isn't helping being an unstoppable force. Both sides want conflicting products. Nobody wants to give up their vision for the other.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:51:35
content:
  I jumped from VRChat to Neos, Jumping from a strict Unity UI to the Neos UI.
  Yea sure it was a bit daunting at first but with a little help I was able and capable of doing things rather quickly. 
  Ive gone on to help construct quite a few worlds, accessories, avatars, having learned Blender specifically because Neos was an "Open" inviting platform for people to learn and socialize


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:51:38
content:
  Hey, Whatever happened to your other Director position, Karel? The one at VR Union. This is a genuine curious question.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:51:57
content:
  How am I immovable? They can do updates tomorrow? They have complete independence of Neos Foundation


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:52:41
content:
  Bad analogy maybe.

  Better to say you're both two goats butted heads together and neither willing to relent to the other. Point is! Conflicting desires, nobody willing to give up theirs.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:53:02
content:
  I wonder how neos (in it's current path)would survive when cryptocurrency is regulated like normal currencies. Where wallets and exchanges would have the same compliance and security requirements as Banks


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:54:04
content:
  I feel like the crypto concerns in government have been greatly subdued with crypto kind of falling into yesterdays news.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:54:39
content:
  Havng crypto on webapp gives them more freedom as they no longer have to include it in NeosVR if they want it out so bad


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:56:29
content:
  Crypto has fallen to subculture in most of the world, especially due to some countries banning it and some heavily taxing and regulating it to a point of not being a proper form of investment.

  So why make it such a heavy part of Neos as a Platform?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 18:58:03
edit_date: 2023-08-15 18:58:26
content:
  Preaching to the choir, man. I don't know. I do think crypto is way past its prime as most graphs for it are pointed pyramids whose peak was years ago. Even if you don't hate crypto, it is a very hard sell to see the future of it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:01:04
content:
  The NFT craze that happened didn't help either. Have "true" ownership over in game items that are just hashed URLs which can be removed by the platform at any time. This pushed a bunch of people who never heard of crypto to hate it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:02:26
content:
  Karel, just so you're aware - there doesn't appear to be a Join/Signup function on the website anymore since the latest update.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:04:57
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:05:32
content:
  I feel that the concept of a marketplace for artists to sell their assets is a great idea, and the implementation of crypto would be great to make it so it easily crosses borders without exchange fees. But Crypto as it currently stands is still a pretty slippery slope, as not all of it has been thought out yet. It's a great concept but in the execution there's so many people who've learned to just straight up manipulate the market to their favor to just take the bag. It's scarily common. That's why the previous development team was uneasy about it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:05:41
content:
  https://web.archive.org/web/20230411005329/https://neos.com/

  Here you can see the register/sign in button.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:06:21
content:
  A fixed virtual currency under something like stripe or another payment vendor would be an improvement


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:07:09
content:
  I barely tapped into possibilities of investing, but the market was so turbulent and so many people having insider information, didnt make it a very smart choice for me to throw my money into..

  Then ofcourse all the other issues of Pollution, destabilization of market for things like GPUs

  It makes me wonder how Neos can continue to promote being inclusive while people are being silenced, blocked and banned for disagreeing how the platform is being used in a way that in fact doesnt promote inclusivity while having been an investor and user of the platform???


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:07:24
content:
  The marketplace in game is always viable, it's when you add a blockchain to something a single sql database could handle faster when things become questionable


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:07:29
content:
  Yeah, but from the beginning I really wasn't about money. It was about making tools for the other creators inside Neos to allow them to accelerate their creative processes. Which is why I'm not so worried about the whole implementation.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:09:32
content:
  I should've also linked the old account page... Which does have a "register" button in order to create an account here:
  https://web.archive.org/web/20230727222817/https://account.neos.com/


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:10:23
content:
  Which allows you to create the account using Username, Email, Password, and agreeing to the privacy policy. Certainly would want it back so that users such as students, event-goers, etc. can sign up for an account beforehand to speed up the process.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:11:51
content:
  You may have accidentally locked out one of the few business using Neos commercially by removing that... just so you're aware.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:12:27
content:
  We'll have to scramble to try and fudge something else in the meantime if it's not going to be added back in the next day or two.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:16:37
content:
  The use is tolerated because its a nice project I like but I don’t think its doing much to fund Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:18:25
content:
  The MetaMovie hosts weekly live shows, this gives people something to do and attracts new people i dont see how it doesnt help neos?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:21:03
content:
  If the infrastructure costs are more than people are paying then having more users isnt helping to fund Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:23:00
content:
  So are you invalidating all standing PRO licenses?
  Just asking because of the "the use is tolerated" being a bit confusing since it specifically allows commercial use


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:23:54
content:
  Metamovie attracts public attention, which is a massive boon for a free platform that doesn't advertise itself


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:24:16
content:
  Custom licensing can be negotiated but I don’t think it was. So calling it commercial use seems bit funny to me.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:25:39
content:
  the pro license used to and so does the wiki say that a pro license perits commercial and institutional usage


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:25:54
content:
  Yea and the reason we don’t advertise is that we are not ready to grow as there is no way to pay for infrastructure costs


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:27:39
content:
  I've actually met quite a few who then went off and supported neos on patreon in my times as a mentor/trainer


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:27:53
content:
  Again the ratio of infrastructure to patreon is not good so increasing the costs makes it only worse not better


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:29:03
content:
  We’re very grateful for all Patrons but Patreon only doesnt cover all costs and thats ok we should have a proper monetization


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:36:26
content:
  The furries are reporting Neos' Patreon fund for violating ICO cryptocurrency policies. What are they doing?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:37:25
content:
  Aren't meteors kinda counter productive in this case then since it promotes longer usage periods per user putting more strain on the systems?
  Or will non staking users not see the meteors?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:40:31
content:
  Ah so hoping it to be enough of an incentive to pay in kinda like battlepases just with no reward but visibility to entice, makes sense


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:41:00
content:
  Not sure that is relavant for an utility token but we will of course remove it if asked to do so by Patreon


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:44:45
content:
  In terms of the new users this feature attracts they are likely to buy NCR as you need it for staking. In terms of existing users I think it makes NCR holding for them more attractive as well.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:46:10
content:
  That's what VictoriaVR did, they had so many people buying money and land, all for a platform that doesn't even exist.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:48:59
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:49:20
content:
  It's also nonsensical and not really something which makes sense in an infinite digital space. The only time it makes any sense is for server rental, like with Second Life, though they've always charged insane amounts for what amounts to a low-end VPS.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:50:16
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:51:31
content:
  I've been watching their Discord for a long time. It's crazy how many people will pay money for snake-oil. None of them are technical obviously otherwise they'd see that the claims and marketing material make no sense.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:50:45
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:50:49
content:
  It's a half-step up from the people that phone old people and tell them they need to pay for <random thing>.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:50:58
content:
  I’ve always felt that creators should be allowed to sell or rent space in their worlds but doing it at the metaverse level makes not much sense other then getting a lot of funding


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:51:36
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:51:59
content:
  SLs i the only one that kinda makes sense since its useed to pay for the hosting costs of the "instance" its kinda like server hosting


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:51:47
edit_date: 2023-08-15 19:52:00
content:
  Selling or renting space can make sense if they've made a "thing" that people would like to exist within. For example people commission/rent apartments in some of the popular VRChat worlds.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 19:54:18
content:
  Space made more sense in Second Life where there was no instancing (which had it's own charm). I'm still not sure whether I prefer instanced or global.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:15:36
content:
  And when I understand correctly, staking rewards depend on time spent in some specific worlds in Neos and doing tasks to collect stardust that improves the percentage in staking


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:16:05
content:
  “Invested” into it doesn’t mean you have to play. If some people believe that one day down the line it will be great they should be free to hold NCR without being harassed by players whos play they support at this time


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:17:50
content:
  Probably also good to mention here that if someone IS being harrassed to make a moderation ticket about it


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:19:06
content:
  Yes myself would be greathfull to be rewarded for holding , im investor not a player , should be some niche for me to stake aswell right?


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:19:06
edit_date: 2023-08-15 20:19:27
content:
  Past playtime before staking is active does not matter for staking percentage same as VR vs desktop/screen. Seems like a pretty harassy question to me.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:20:37
edit_date: 2023-08-15 20:20:51
content:
  Tbh this is one of the reasons i like the rebranding from Neos"VR" to just Neos

  Neos supports desktop play and theres nothing wrong with being a desktop user, ideally regardless of how you use neos you should be equal


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:22:10
content:
  Our plan was to drop the VR part after a while but as with many things the plans were one sidedly changed


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:23:48
content:
  if im not mistaken all the branding has been changed to Neos, only place i can find the VR still is the Steam listing name


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:23:54
content:
  I admit, I'm using Neos quite a lot in Desktop mode, even though I have full VR equipment.
  And yet, experiencing it in VR is just so much better


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:24:35
edit_date: 2023-08-15 20:25:02
content:
  Just gotta be careful, talking about experiences like that too aggressively, it can come across as platform elitism


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:25:21
content:
  Probably better in terms of immersion but not all aspects as you would otherwise use it exclusively in VR mode


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:26:06
edit_date: 2023-08-15 20:26:26
content:
  Persoally i use Neos exclusively in VR
  But thats also because im simply built different genetically predispoed to being good at VR


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 20:37:32
content:
  Personally i love to build in VR because it gives me more sense of what things are like while actively building them. 
  That and mice have always felt clunky to me regardless of context


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:09:58
content:
  Many creators actually using desktop mode for creation a lot and i understand this very well. Personally i like the perspective VR gives for creating. Neos is the first and only game that makes interacting with things feel intuitive. Not with everything mind you, but it has this feeling of "you can drag and drop a video into the game and its just in vr"


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:30:07
content:
  Neos had pmf for furries, but seems that community is mostly leaving. Still plenty of opportunities for pmf with other audiences. Excited to see where it goes now and how it will gain traction!


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:32:33
content:
  I mean, any VR software will have. Furry is pretty much defined as people that feel an affinity to show themselfs as avatars... specificly antropomorphic animals.
  Obviously any VR software that allows custom avatars will find a furrie audience and artists that create avatars.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:33:03
content:
  If you want to create a VR software that is intentionally want to exclude furries, consider not allowing avatars


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:34:36
content:
  I just made the observation that a lot of furries are leaving. Just look at twitter hate, every account is a furry account


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:36:40
content:
  The fact that many furries voice discontent and show it in twitter is that neos has a lot of furry users... and also that Karel kind of insulted them on some ocations


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:38:07
content:
  Sorry I don’t get this. Anything I say that mentions furries I get hate lol. I was just making an observation that is true as far as I can tell


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:38:56
content:
  I was just stating the obvious. If many people in Neos are Furries and many people are voicing discontent or leaving Neos, most of them will be... Furries


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:40:55
content:
  That is not true. Just go on twitter. Look at all the users who liked the tweet (108) - they are 95% not furry avatar images. Look at all the people who wrote quote tweets (109) which are mostly hate tweets - they are 95% furry images.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:41:38
content:
  That is statistically signification, i agree, but you think that most twitter users that agree (108) are actual VR players


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:46:14
edit_date: 2023-08-15 21:47:02
content:
  Ok... The users on twitter that agree (108) are possibly in majority people that are interested in investment, as this is the part that was presented in the most favorable way and as future of the project. Why would this make sense? 

  Because many of them don't actually use Neos as a VR space or software.

  People that disagree are mostly VR users and many of them... surprise... are Furries. So thats the rational why this is survivor bias. The group impacted is actually the invisible one.


type: message
date: 2023-08-15 21:49:36
edit_date: 2023-08-15 22:02:32
content:
  All of this is not an attack but an observation. It is nice if there are new people that will be gained (non furries) that are interested in the project. But you also need creators and designers that are interested in the actual Product, not only in the Money behind it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 02:59:56
content:
  Reading all this stuff bout crypto and whatnot from here and the chats...
  This scam is so 2020, get over it cryptobro's and find a better way to scam people :)


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 03:01:43
content:
  Personally i just tune out every time "furries" as a group are brought up, its a weird reductionism.
  People are individuals, liking funny animals that walk on two legs has no further requirements, no political requirements, no crypto related requirements etc. its an irrelevant characteristic and all this ends up with is blanket characterizations and charged language against general groups.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 06:42:14
edit_date: 2023-08-16 06:50:25
content:
  Any VR game (Neos, VRC et al.) is going to have a high number of furries
  It's an online community in a niche space, where you can 'digitally cosplay' as your favourite characters including your own


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 09:07:11
content:
  guess I'll be 'that guy' to point out majority of nft now are linked to IPFS, so abit more interesting than that imo


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 09:19:36
content:
  Whats forced on people? You can hide NCR in Neos or use the Steam build. Ignore it if you don't like it or dont want to be able to tip ppl with it or whatever


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 10:21:20
edit_date: 2023-08-16 10:25:08
content:
  I'm a new user who isn't part of the furry community, and I've never really encountered any unfriendly people. In fact, everyone in the game has been incredibly welcoming to me. I was almost shocked by how amazing and unique the NeosVR community is.

  I don't understand all the negativity towards furries here, and it honestly bothers me to read such comments. It's even more disappointing to see that these views are not only accepted but also promoted by the official telegram group.

  Can we please put a stop to the unfounded hatred against those who can't even defend themselves? They face the risk of being banned if they speak out…


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 10:27:52
edit_date: 2023-08-16 10:32:30
content:
  Furries are indeed very friendly. It requires actions of disrespect to change that. However even then it is usually possible to earn respect and be on good terms. As long as not crossing some line.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:10:04
content:
  Really? Seems like quite the generalisation. Those I’ve met have been decent kind folk. Definitely a few odd  characters out there but mostly gems


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:24:27
content:
  Well if you want me to be real then probaby yeah really. All fandoms seem to bring out ppl's worst, encouraging them to be insular and filter life through an obsessive lens


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:27:00
content:
  I only saw a tiny fraction of the crypto fandom so far and from what I have seen so far, it seems to support your statement


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:29:01
edit_date: 2023-08-16 11:29:47
content:
  The point I'm trying to get across is. That every fandom (or any larger group of people) has its share of awful people. Doesn't mean the whole fandom is awful. Sadly the awful people of their fandoms are also usually the loudest that also make its first impression


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:30:58
content:
  Whenever you actually are part of a fandom, you finally get to meet the awesome and decent people of the fandom


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:38:52
content:
  There is also to say that really inside neos there is no divide that it sounds like many seam to believe. There is not furry and "the others" or we against them mentality. In fact the avatar inside the game is seen as expression as self and seen as important to that person. Not an affiliation to some group.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:42:07
content:
  I think crypto fans, or "crypto twitter" is incredibly toxic place too, and geneally just people who want to make money


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:42:36
content:
  I think thats different from a guy who in interested in smart contracts, defi, decentealized structures or whatevee


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:43:04
content:
  Maybe, i mean yea, it promotes group thinking. I still think most people, no mather in how many fandom at once, are usually sensible people. Usually its less the groups as it is group thinking


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:44:10
edit_date: 2023-08-16 11:45:07
content:
  I think its bad if everything needs to be cryptoed up for someone to enjoy it just like if someone only watches funny animal cartoons


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:49:23
edit_date: 2023-08-16 11:50:01
content:
  I mean, groups always exist and act defensive if attacked as a whole. Like a word or assigned feature. "its all the woman's fault for not being as active in neos than men" pretty much could lead to the same reaction, if true or not


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 11:56:13
content:
  All incidents that have occurred up until today, solely because Karel isn't a furry. Thus, he must be excluded from a platform predominantly composed of furries👍


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 12:20:09
content:
  well.. if crypto was a fandom, it certainly got attacked in the same manner or way worse than people say furries are being labeled


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 12:56:26
content:
  I agree. But i openly dislike the video and the way it is presented by Karel. To make crypto the center of attention of the VR world, and its existance the defining property, it will drive away many of the remaining patrons. I can't answer the question if its still a good business decission, because there is probably profit in it. But from the standpoint of a VR creator i strongly disagree with the chose path.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 12:57:46
content:
  I would have loved a crypto-ingame currency. I always found the idea of a ingame currency that can't be created from thin air interesting and makes it more reliable (as the owner of the game can't just go ahead and make more).


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 13:29:40
content:
  Straight into misogyny with the example there? Couldn't have blamed the people who hate the colour yellow? 😂


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 13:53:14
edit_date: 2023-08-16 13:54:12
content:
  Correction. Many VR users are mad because the focus presented is crypto currency and the VR software abandoned (as a codebase). In its place a new product is presented that will be inferior for many years until parity is reached as promised... if ever reached


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 13:53:23
content:
  Because it's not an update to Neos as it exists today.

  It's a cryptobro P2E web game stealing the Neos legacy that is beloved by many, compounded on the lies and immaturity of Karel clearly pushing whatever he can to ride that crypto train and become rich.

  Directly from the Steam page listing:
  "Play and explore with your friends, collaborate with your coworkers or grab powerful building tools and create something new right inside VR."

  This "update" couldn't be further from that description, and only shows how Karel does not share the old Neos dev team' passion.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 13:55:34
content:
  Well now as you made it more clear , thats not good at all . If too sides arent happy many players could leave the game maybe now


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 14:50:20
content:
  I'm a bit surprised there aren't more people interested in buying NCR now, with the opportunity to still get it low priced right now before staking


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 15:06:18
content:
  until someone saw the opportunity to drop their 112.67K of NCR and some paper hand sold their 20.83K at a loss they bought just half a day before.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 16:35:13
content:
  Keeps banning people for "FUD" fear, uncertainty, & doubt, meanwhile he can't even go a single day without contradicting himself.


type: message
date: 2023-08-16 17:17:32
content:
  Kind of exciting seeing the value of NCR increase at all, Honestly the projected vision for Neos prior to all the drama was my dream vr social/eco game and it'd be great to see Neos make a comeback both in both aspects.

  But there needs to be some more abstraction between Karel and the community, because PR between the company and those who use the product is currently trash.
  also jesus christ, don't mention furries in this chat. Just don't. I could go on a long rant about this, but this needs to be over- it's pointless and harmful to the platform.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 02:29:03
edit_date: 2023-08-17 02:34:38
content:
  You can do this in our steam application. Other methods to do this are currently down unfortunately.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 08:41:45
content:
  Users can refuse crypto,there's even an official build without cryptocurrency (Steam).Karel only worked on an additional Unreal build. Other builds remain operational.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 08:42:55
content:
  Karel sought ways to generate revenue for Neos, actively seeking sponsorships. Yet, Karel is treated as a malicious saboteur of the platform. Without revenue, the Patreon fund falls short of covering Neos' maintenance costs. To be honest, the Patreon fund is insufficient to even pay a programmer's salary. The expenses for maintenance and the development team's salaries are substantial.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 08:50:36
content:
  This community is adept at psychological manipulation. I wonder: if there's no money, what does Karel use to fund Neos' development? Cloud storage costs, salaries, infrastructure...?"


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 09:31:32
content:
  The money from minting NCR hasn't been used to pay for backend services yet. That's my knowledge from end of 2021


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 10:31:45
content:
  We have paid with crypto for a lot of stuff as well the developers who sold the NCR they got through CDFT have. The question stands you have to have funding. A project without funding does not survive.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:00:04
content:
  lol that video is not historically accurate, it's well-made but mostly a false load of shit. But ppl don't actually care what really happened, they just want someone to blame


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:03:46
content:
  honestly you say some of the dumbest shit whenever I pop in here. You just want to get banned so you can post it on the discord of your twitter or some shit for clout so tbh yes you should get booted


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:04:51
content:
  The video also is kind of old. That said, i disagree with the path the development takes and stand by that. Imagine world of warcraft would focus all its effords on wow gold and its marketing around that.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:06:31
content:
  I don't fancy the focus either but I think the feeling is at this point nothing he does is going to not be shit on no matter how beneficial it is.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:08:21
content:
  Defying expectations and actually investing in software and development of the actual focus of neos (as in the vr space) would have at least make people think they might be wrong.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:08:57
content:
  Furries are going to hate everything he does because they love maliciously dogpiling ppl online, no pun intended. JP users just like any update, and cryptobros were the ones who brought the most money to the table and were also the most attacked and abused audience within Neos by far. I think he wants to appeal to them now since there's literally no way to reason with the hate mob


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:10:29
content:
  Honestly, I dont know who is actually working on it. It can't be more than one person, and things are very uncertain. Plus I don't even know how it is going to be implimented because afaik the code is not being relinquoshed by Froox and now we're talking about an Unreal build?


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:30:45
content:
  related, Iwatched the State of Unreal presentation, I know atleast UE will have some sort of metaverse-oriented programming language shared with Fortnite


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:31:10
content:
  https://venturebeat.com/games/how-epic-games-views-the-metaverse-and-the-state-of-unreal-tim-sweeney/


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 11:42:09
content:
  can someone qrd what is going on? My takeaway is Neos has no code that it can edit, Froox will take his code and publish a new Neos that maybe has a slightly different name. The plab going forward with the current Neos is to make a web client and eventually an Unreal game with a new dev team.


type: message
date: 2023-08-17 23:20:39
content:
  Also regardless of what arbitrary community a person is a part of, if a change is done that they personally think is good they would say so.

  It wouldnt change what they think about the other things that have been done but. people can change and prove others wrong

  For me this update was exactly what i was expecting and more


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 03:23:02
content:
  Karel 
  Neos already has a blockchain system that can be mined within Neos
  https://twitter.com/orange_3134/status/1519863525132627968?t=-F7DH_gzzFOSn_dY0-_9cQ&s=19


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 14:28:40
content:
  There is not really much to say. There are the people that are happy about the changes and realize there will not be much news in the next half year... and there are the people that are unhappy with the path neos follows down now, and also realize there will be nothing important happening for the next month.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 14:30:25
edit_date: 2023-08-18 14:39:48
content:
  My personal view is that Karel pretty much committed to a new Software/System that is very NCR near and will obviously not reach parity (if ever) with the current neos for many years. That may was what is expected by some and/or feared by others. Also there seams to be no intention to ever go the direction of a ingame-changable and creator-near system, because of the choise of engine that forbids that explicitly.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:21:42
content:
  Would love to see an open source git repository with the engine rebuild, along with another repo for the unreal engine integration


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:24:12
content:
  The software that Neos is build on is not owned by any of the companies currently involved in the project Neos. Its owned by the creator(s) that made the software in the first place and that distanced themselfs from the project.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:24:56
content:
  According to previous messages, they are rebuilding the codebase to be on parity with the cloud's spec. I want to see that code


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:27:49
content:
  For their "multiple flavored clients" idea, they've got to have the new codebase separate from the unreal engine integration.
  I assumed it was separate, since that's the only way it'd work in their proposed "Neos Foundation" plan. If it isn't, then uhhhhhh


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:30:02
content:
  I am unaware how it is exactly build. As far as my understanding goes, the unreal client uses the api and records


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:31:17
content:
  I assume that is the request to Karels account (please don't pin me on that, i just typed in the name).
  https://cloudx.azurewebsites.net/api/users/U-Karel


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:32:00
content:
  And in addition to  that there is the records of the actual neosdb-files, like pictures and everything else. Also under control of Karel.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:36:35
edit_date: 2023-08-18 15:38:03
content:
  The api is also used by the website and probably could also be used by any other flavored client. I am not sure what the new codebase seperation would entail further than that. Its not that complicated really. But parsing the records in the world and showing them as objects, with all functions, seams unreasonable complicated to me (LogiX, UIX,...)


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:46:49
edit_date: 2023-08-18 15:47:34
content:
  It is not allowed to be open source, if it's based on Unreal Engine. Which contradicts the intent to go open source with Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:47:12
content:
  Oh, i was thinking of FrooxEngine separation - so there'd be two parts of a client, the FrooxEngine part (which governs  components and their functionality, so that different clients can connect to eachother) and the frontend part (rendering and everything else through something - unreal, godot, unity, full fledged custom)


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:47:52
edit_date: 2023-08-18 15:48:23
content:
  Its also not allowed to include all the tools that make neos unique. Dev-Tip, Logix, Material tip, shapes, components, dynamic rigs. The problem with unreal is that you can't make an editor in it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:48:19
edit_date: 2023-08-18 15:48:35
content:
  Contrary to that. Those tools are allowed, however the content created must be UE-Only content. So it cannot be stored in Neos cloud


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 15:50:11
content:
  which is why they're setting up a webpage
  the official client may use an uncustomizable webpage for its dash, while other clients may fall back to the more flexible facet systems


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 16:05:45
content:
  You are allowed to open source your content, that includes the entire project. Engine code is not allowed


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 16:42:59
content:
  As far as my knowledge goes, Unreal Engine has strikt limits to integrating other third-party tools and services, specificly cloud storage and exporters. Pretty much the defining feature of Neos VR, the ability to create and share content, even if that content might be considered age restricted or licensewise questionable.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 16:43:43
content:
  As it is not allowed in general, you can not make tools available that allow users to create or share such content.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 17:23:31
content:
  would be nice if Karel could explain what kind of limits the UE put on the new client compared to the current client in terms of creating content by users, as this aspect pretty much defines Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 20:39:46
edit_date: 2023-08-18 20:40:31
content:
  From what I understand is that Epics EULA doesn't allow, that any engine content is distributed individually as it is their property obviously. 
  An example would be creating worlds. Right now, you can not bake your lighting in the game or anywhere else (Other than baking it into the texture). This results in big performance dips if you want to make your world pretty or to VRC standard. Now, to utilise the most modern technologies like Lumen or Nanite, which UE5 offers, you would have to ship the code that generates the lighting or the meshes to end-users and as such would ship Engine Code with it. Unreal allows you, to get inspired or get help by their code, but straight up copying or replicating it is prohibited. Correct me if I am wrong.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 20:41:25
content:
  You would basically have to make your own baking etc. and if you're that far already, why not just make  your own renderer.


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 20:43:11
content:
  So in terms of flexibility, using Unreal would be the same as using Unity just with a bit better graphics..


type: message
date: 2023-08-18 21:32:24
content:
  But there is nothing really limiting you on creation tools inside unity and sharing that content, like the Unreal Engine license limits one


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 04:28:12
content:
  Ok from what I'm seeing the update brings nothing of true value to the table it's is not part of the game UI and form what I've seen  it's incompatible with Fassits and the first thing is it averting crypto as the first thing that is going to push alot of the main neos user base the wrong way especially after we where treated after the rugpull in 2021 I see a complete disconnect from the user's to management in this what most users wanted was better stability and a more uniform and understandable dash. The talk about going into multiple engines wouldn't that break a fair amount of things such as live assets so I think that's a bit of a wild plunder. Another conssern is most platforms such as steam and Epic Games will block crypto being done via the store and may block being in the platform due to this and one of the major thing mentioned around the Patron and NeosVR community people don't want to support projects that contains crypto since the lack of transparency and negative view of crypto has there been any communication or allowence for community input?


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 05:56:46
edit_date: 2023-08-19 06:04:27
content:
  Based on what I know from NeosVR Discord, the majority of the former Neos team, along with Froox, have established Yellow Dog Man Studios (YDMS). They're gearing up to launch the Resonite platform, which operates similarly to NeosVR. ProbablePrime has verified YDMS's legality. Individuals on Discord are also urging the shift from supporting Neos Patreon to endorsing YDMS Patreon. This summarizes my observations from the NeosVR Discord, as shared by X (Twitter)


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 06:27:45
content:
  Nobody but the team knows for sure what Resonite actually is other than VR-related. Everyone is assuming.


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 06:59:04
edit_date: 2023-08-19 07:00:40
content:
  Do you have a reference for the alleged rug pull? Also crypto is usually the opposite of lack of transparency. The feature of most block chains is to have a public ledger that everyone can look at and verify what is going on. The code for tokens and the block chain itself is usually open as well, so everyone can verify. DAOs cannot operate in the dark on block chains either, it's all on the block chain, including the code.


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 06:59:28
content:
  From what i have observed people aren't telling them to Go give money to (YDMS) but simply pointing out its existence but I could be mistaken.


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:01:44
edit_date: 2023-08-19 07:03:14
content:
  What surprises me is this, when everything is in the open and people can check the stuff, why is it still that people are being scammed with crypto?
  I guess people are not educating themselves. They don't care to check. Listening to others without verifying their claims. Following advice directly from the scammers.


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:09:34
edit_date: 2023-08-19 07:09:44
content:
  if i am kicked for just stating my observations and stating it as merely a observation as i cant see every communication and be on at all times all well


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:10:41
content:
  Yeah, but remarkable how people are so easily willing to give support. I guess, that's what you get if you love your community


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:11:56
content:
  Although, what about the stability of the crypto? How can I be sure with using it that one day my 100 coins cost... Lets say 100€ and that the next day it would cost around the same?


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:13:52
content:
  Anything that has a max coin cap and has no control instruments is volatile. However the more popular this coin gets, the more valuable it becomes, as there is limited supply but raising demand.


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:16:57
edit_date: 2023-08-19 07:18:05
content:
  Even your 100€ has a different value every other minute. The thing with fiat however is, there is a huge stable market attached and a government backing it and requiring taxes being paid in that currency. Also money is being created the more demand there is, so there is a controlled inflation and the value is not simply just going up there


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:19:33
content:
  Yeah exactly, thats why my 100€ are stable enough with the approximate decreasing in value every year by 5-10% depending on the whole industry. Paying taxes, yeah, maybe sucks, but its a part of everything nowadays. Question kinda stays the same -> who would want to take that crypto risk for ingame assets xP


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 07:22:27
edit_date: 2023-08-19 07:24:14
content:
  Let's first see, if it is a risk. Because if it is, then no one would want that for payments.
  Like the scenario of receiving pay for something while coin has a high value and then the price suddenly dropping. Is that what I could tackle to try to answer?


type: message
date: 2023-08-19 17:52:34
content:
  Is it a riot though if there isn't at least 1 fire and someone getting out of their car with a bow and arrow?


type: message
date: 2023-08-20 10:10:10
edit_date: 2023-08-20 10:10:16
content:
  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x6d074b2a27298fdd5dd0031faafbac6b328bc981585cace8cf4622c4d6e36a19
  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xdea2b416564b6137cfbb468a7f7622800069fdb302dc5a7b57cfdc36ed7a06c6


type: message
date: 2023-08-21 23:00:46
content:
  Great. Well  there are some  people that had different mails for patreon and neos. Happens, but rarely


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 04:56:55
content:
  It wasn't until today that I truly grasped Karel's words about taking users hostage. The Neos group has actually taken users hostage as a means to negotiate with Karel.


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 04:59:42
content:
  I kind of even question if Karel said that. That sounds pretty far fetched. As far as i am aware, both sides at least worked togehter to the point that "what nessesary" was done over the last 2 years


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:00:28
content:
  As highlighted by the (few) updates neos received. Updates that Karel obviously could not have done without Source code or anyone officially working with him, that has access to it.


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:01:24
content:
  In exchange, Karel kept  paying for Cloud/Server services from Patron resources, didn't  actually sabotage  it or shut it down.


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:04:06
content:
  We've conducted investigations to gather substantial evidence. We've also dispatched someone to the Czech Republic to carry out the necessary legal documentation procedures.


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:05:30
edit_date: 2023-08-23 05:06:17
content:
  That sounds like a no-answer to me. Why even start it if you don't want to answer? If its really about evidence and legal proceedings, i am sure you got told to not say anything, because that could help the other side,  right? Compromise own evidence?


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:15:31
content:
  Why? These are just joking words... and I really dislike you. Playing with words is not good and has no benefits


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 05:19:06
content:
  Could be multiple people, could be schizophrenic... gender? We might never know.. hu... and WE is now me or everyone here or... things get complicated fast


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 18:33:20
content:
  Trading volume went from $20k to $2k then only $200. Now back up to... $4.6k? Like immediate changes in large


type: message
date: 2023-08-23 18:51:54
edit_date: 2023-08-23 18:53:30
content:
  With such a low total volume, jumps like this are natural. Specially because most people trading doing pump and dump


type: message
date: 2023-08-24 00:39:54
content:
  Just letting you know that https://wiki.neosvr.com is not working properly currently.

  (I already knew about https://wiki.neos.com not working but that seems to be redirecting properly. It's just the wiki page not loading properly anymore)


type: message
date: 2023-08-24 01:39:43
content:
  Hi @Lexevo , what exactly is the issue please. I have just checked and everything seems to be loading fine?


type: message
date: 2023-08-24 01:43:16
content:
  Ah sorry about that, the wiki is loading fine now. It was showing this before: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/873730341146361876/1144035276969222335/image.png


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 02:33:10
content:
  There always has been, the new one has a new coat of paint and functionality that's described in the pinned message


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 05:27:35
content:
  Hey everyone! I'm curious... When it comes to exploring XR "metaverse" protects or events, how do you find them? Haven't you had a hard time finding them?


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 05:28:50
content:
  There are some discord groups that might be helpful. The Neos official one is a good place to start, but there are others


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 13:48:18
content:
  its not """official""" but it is currently the largest external platform for neos, which does make it easier to get help from the community..


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 17:13:00
content:
  Friendly reminder: The new WebUI still has no registration functionality for new users. Karel @malooniac


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 18:33:42
content:
  How come I can't find a link to the Discord on the site? Taking some snapshots from there and combining it with a revamped trailer for the next update would greatly bump up attention and coin value.


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 18:59:12
content:
  It's unofficial? I'm confused. What is Neos then? I just want to get in on the staking as early as possible


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 19:00:59
content:
  he clarified already if you would read it:
  for neos as a whole, it is unofficial
  for unity client, it is official


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 21:34:23
content:
  Yes.  There are a few communities I know of that host regular events. I am sure there are many i don't know of yet also


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:04:31
content:
  Are there any tutorials on how to manage NCR ingame through logix? I want to setup a 1v1 PVP shooter, and I'd like to include some kind of betting system / winner takes all setup. But I've got no clue how to make that work automatically ingame


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:15:55
content:
  I am unsure if ProbablePrime created videos about this specific topic, specificly because he might less inclined to like the idea, but if you want to learn about logix, try his videos on youtube


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:20:16
content:
  Probably would need to be managed by a bot that both players send some amount to and let the game inform that bot in some manner who the winner is


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:24:27
edit_date: 2023-08-25 22:25:43
content:
  yeah, i might go the bot route
  plus, the bot could sit in the instance and record the packets with that one mod, so if a player feels cheated they can call for packet analyzation
  i dont trust the tipjar, it looks like anyone can change the recipient with a single packet
  wait actually
  When a valuecopy with writeback is "localizing" a value, can that value ever be changed by an external request?

  either i go with a facet for the sending NCR (for security), or it's all messaging the bot
  again since money is involved it gets dicey with no hard permissions update


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:30:14
content:
  The dialog will prompt you with who it is sending to before you pick the amount and before you send it to confirm, it also occurs entirely in the userspace separate from the world you are in.


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:31:35
content:
  i remember the casino handling this similar. The mechanic to send/receive ncr is very specific but also time consuming for doing it on every game


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:32:37
content:
  The tipjar solely provides the User to send it to with optionally providing the token type to send (otherwise it will ask the user which to send)


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:34:56
content:
  Okay, so maybe then the amount they've put in would be handled via cloud vars? I've messed with cloudvars once (terribly). Is there a way to ensure that the users can only read their cloudvar value, and only the bot could write that cloudvar value?


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:36:26
content:
  the only way that seams to be safe is if you host that world and its the only instance that can be created and the only thing that can change this value


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:36:50
content:
  Yes you can make cloudvars be effectively read-only, owned by the bot account and the bot account can manage it


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:39:56
content:
  This means... if your world crashes, you have to plan for a considerable delay until you use the old data, you have to be aware and you can only have a single instance running


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:42:39
content:
  meaning, if you have 2 world instances open, it can take 5 minutes for values changed by the other changed to that value


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:42:57
content:
  But if you have a single instance and you had non open anymore, and start it again, the data should be on point


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:45:30
content:
  Maybe players could open up a private instance of the world, and then ingame request for a bot to join so that the match can run.
  Is there a way for bots to join a private instance with some kind of key?
  Or would match instances have to be a hidden public


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:47:24
content:
  One is the cloud variables that may not be syncronized between all instances in realtime, others is that it makes hacking it easier if you have your private instance that you can work against for hours and days


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:48:05
content:
  I would plan for a single, public instance, using cloud variables to make sure a crash doesn't lead to a loss of data/money


type: message
date: 2023-08-25 22:50:47
content:
  Sorry about spaming the channel. I am sure you find a good solution Hola. Everything with a bot-client that needs to join, private instances and handling of NCR-calls for every single game... i would simply not attempt


type: message
date: 2023-08-26 03:00:44
content:
  The bot account could be made to interact with cloud vars without being in the world, same for receiving/sending tokens. Shouldn't be required for a bot to exist in the world.


type: message
date: 2023-08-26 05:23:28
content:
  I'd suggest holding onto that idea until a new client is released. Imagine PvP shooter could be developed with Unreal Engine with some kind of NCR rewards.


type: message
date: 2023-08-28 22:51:05
content:
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777
  7777


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 00:57:16
content:
  I don't know much about stickers, but the inability to post media here made it hard to realize things were being made on the system. I thought stuff was still limited to just the trailer


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 05:30:18
content:
  I mean, links can be still sent I guess https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dO67qRfP4Yk/WOVAmOUyJII/AAAAAAABvso/WKsmlOJxseMIO0ebbrjiy9lnHD7TywCigCLcB/s1600/funny-cat-253-01.jpg


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 17:02:06
content:
  If people can share links, how come product links aren't shared here? Is it due to a lack of interest?


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:32:51
content:
  Yeah. It appears that this telegram chat is centered around NCR specifically. For more community-centric stuff you would be better suited getting involved in the discord.


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:39:15
edit_date: 2023-08-29 18:39:27
content:
  Couldn't people here help fund the community's projects? It'd be such an improvement to everything and give more power to NCR


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:53:33
edit_date: 2023-08-29 18:54:08
content:
  So...about that.
  The majority of people interested in community projects and events seem uninterested in NCR from my experience.


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:54:45
content:
  Admittedly, I am in this telegram chat for news and announcements and I personally have no interest in NCR


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:57:26
content:
  One issue that prevents NCR being attractive as a way for people to have themselves funded also is in order to be liquid as someone not already in the crypto space you need to
  >get supporting wallet
  >find a supporting swapper
  >find an exchange that can pay out to you
  >buy eth to fuel the tranactions


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 18:59:43
edit_date: 2023-08-29 19:00:33
content:
  But also, most projects in Neos (done by community members) are not done with profit in mind, but community and for the sake of sharing creativity. Folks will often give help on projects with no expectation of reward other than being friendly.


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 19:31:56
content:
  They could. We used to do stuff like that. There were a few big maker competitions, though they were organized through other channels. If you are interested in those, I'd recommend looking into Neos Festa and Creator Jam.


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 19:58:07
edit_date: 2023-08-29 19:58:37
content:
  The creators that won those got nice NCR prizes from the Community Developer Fund amongst other rewards. Theres still funds left in CDF. What projects do you have in mind? @boldparadoxal_eth I’m always interested in supporting good community projects.


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 20:13:24
content:
  I guess I'm just confused why projects are shared only on the Discord, but not here. Even if the goal isn't to do a project for profit, receiving even a small amount could help distrobute the funding around, making it look more active on the chain


type: message
date: 2023-08-29 20:55:47
content:
  Organizationally discord is a lot neater organized to share such unless you have a telegramm with channels


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 13:25:17
content:
  Ingame transactions are more of a database with one external wallet id so there's no activity on chain unless withdrawing


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 13:26:15
content:
  The database just tracks how much a user has and associates a internal wallet Id per account allowing karel to do the transaction to move ncr from that user to a external deposit address when it was manual idk if it still is only Karel can comment on that


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:28:20
content:
  Glad to say that since the https://account.neos.com/ update withdrawals are fully automated. You can see them at the hot wallet that was created for the purpose here https://etherscan.io/address/0x884611bbc86d26270cFD26624bD756a749c25066#tokentxns My only job is to top it up when needed.


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:30:15
edit_date: 2023-08-30 15:32:34
content:
  Web registration has been added https://account.neos.com/ui/register Next up better Patreon rewards tracking, Neos Cloud space buying and staking. After that we'll be doing Worlds and Contacts panels.


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:42:30
content:
  Why top it up? I think it should contain all the NCR, that are in in-game accounts together. Except you mean something like ETH for paying gas


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:43:51
content:
  I guess he means the automated wallet in charge of automatic transfers. We know all the stories about the millions  lost  by  a simple software glitch because people assume software is perfect


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:45:56
content:
  But i am curious, how does the syncronization of the NCR on account.neos.com and of the NeosVR client now actually work? It seams there are still some issues?


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:49:13
content:
  A hot wallet, meaning one that is connected to the internet holding all NCR on Neos Account managed wallets sounds like an unnecessary risk. Better to hold most of it in a more secure air gapped cold wallet.


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:51:55
content:
  NeosVR client needs updating in terms of NCR interactions as it still has the old withdrawal UI. Please use https://account.neos.com/ for everything related to NCR in the meantime.


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:53:36
content:
  I see, but it seams like that it gets more difficult over time as more services (like storage) get payed from the ingame wallets while the syncronization isn't done?


type: message
date: 2023-08-30 15:59:08
content:
  Just a note to the registration page karel your captcha is not conformed to the css of the container for the register section and hangs over the edge


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 10:21:30
edit_date: 2023-08-31 10:21:54
content:
  If Not, it would make no sense to even have different clients in the first place. Everybody would use one client or worse it would split the community. Crowd drives people


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 11:04:17
content:
  Well at the moment its not. The NCR of Neos VR Unity client and the NCR on the website are completly disconnected from each other. This is horrible in my opinion


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 11:06:04
edit_date: 2023-08-31 11:06:57
content:
  Yes it’s designed to be the same in all clients, the clients need to be up to date though which sadly the Unity one isn’t.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 14:05:21
content:
  To be more specific. Will both clients be able to connect / interact ,through standard methods, in game?


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 14:52:15
content:
  I mean, I don't understand why so many clients to begin with. Like, will the UE one be focused on first preson shooter stuff? That'd make more sense on why multiple flavors if each one played to a specific strength and all used NCR


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 14:56:24
content:
  My guess is that it is because the  Team behind the Name Neos (Karel & Co) don't have access to the source code of the Unity Client


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 14:58:39
content:
  As to my knowledge that is simply not possible to maintain longterm. And whatever product will be created with the old source code will probably not be marketed as Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:24:26
content:
  if the unity client won't be updated anymore, then it will be eventually outdated, but I wouldn't call it "soon", as it might take a lot of effort to make UE client compatible with the current unity client


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:25:11
edit_date: 2023-08-31 15:26:08
content:
  That might be the understatement of the year. Feature parity might take many, many years. Compatibility is, in my eyes at least, impossible


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:31:25
content:
  I don't see what is impossible here. It might take a lot of effort, but rewriting components and logix, what is most important, is definitely possible.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:34:37
edit_date: 2023-08-31 15:34:46
content:
  One engine is c++ and the other is c# and if they chose blueprints they are more restricted for customiseability


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:35:38
content:
  As you are a wizard, that might be entirely possible. I could not do that, not even together with my team and i work and teach since about 14 years as a software developer. If you want a good estimate of whats possible, we might want to ask the modders of neos, but it is my personal opinion that it is not viable.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:37:10
content:
  I mean, never say never. Throw enough manpower at a problem and it might go away. But it doesn't look like Neos has many hundret programmers at the moment that would made me think different.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:40:50
edit_date: 2023-08-31 15:41:30
content:
  Then theirs the UGC rules of unreal... which basically shoot neos as it is in the leg or let's say blowing it entirely off. Also all content must be moderated down to the smallest detail due to UGC means the game will get rated mature so there goes neos pegi 13 rating

  Unreal doesn't like it when you offer real-time editing tools that provide systems similar to the engine running it


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:42:50
content:
  Creating a detailed documentation of all components and all logix nodes (using wiki and in-game), and then recreating their behavior is possible if given enough resources, and it surely doesn't require hundreds of people. Most of these are trivial, like add or subtract 2 numbers together.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:43:57
content:
  I wouldn't call that hard but the world model running that logix processing and the spaghetti it is and all the code for generative uix to make nodes easy plug and play is a mess


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:46:11
edit_date: 2023-08-31 15:47:07
content:
  ... right. So about 2 years. In your personal opinion. If Neos would go offline and i would give you the money to work every day on that (and assuming you would be ok with that) how long would it take you to replicate anything that has gone offline?


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:47:13
edit_date: 2023-08-31 15:47:35
content:
  Uhh including the asset variation servers, the relay and all that I can't even give a estimate since I don't know if current is doccumented


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:48:21
content:
  I take a guess and say you have most of the documentation in existance already, that Karel would have access to too


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:50:44
content:
  I havnt read most the code nor documented it but as what I have access to and didn't have legal repercussions maybe 2year ?


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:53:52
content:
  First one is just "can do the same stuff" while the other is "my magic sword with the logiX works and looks the same in both clients"


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 15:55:12
content:
  Oh wouldn't that cause more metadata in a 7zbson due to shader types for all clients and namespaces for types


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 16:28:27
content:
  I want to add this to the discussion as it doesn't seem to be brought up yet. Yes, there are features that could be implemented in a different engine rather triviality, and Neos uses source generation to produce a lot of these Logix nodes automatically, for instance.

  However, from a developer standpoint one thing that is far from trivial to implement are Neos's plugins - OVR lipsync, Input, things built for and intended the Unity engine. While there are the Unreal Engine counterparts here and there, I'm afraid that isn't the case for every single one. RNNoise?  Obtaining feature parody would be far from a straightforward task, most practically these would have to be implemented in house


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 16:29:40
edit_date: 2023-08-31 16:35:56
content:
  Again, I believe anything is possible with the right amount of elbow grease. Source: I helped work on a Godot version of Neos


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 16:47:28
content:
  I'm actually kind of shocked Godot wasn't made the more primary engine when revealed. I just did a quick search on it with it being open source, it feels more in spirit of what NCR wants to be according to the whitepaper


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 17:03:04
content:
  Well, considering that  Karel wants multiple clients, it might be a good question to his team. Having a universal API and documentation to develop the Clients in question and the limits of compatibelity to each other


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 17:03:27
edit_date: 2023-08-31 17:03:47
content:
  Godot has really only recently become viable on the VR side of things. Keep in mind the timeline of Neos' development.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 17:05:55
content:
  Though it would be a much better engine to base a new implementation on today IMO. Unreal having as many massive question marks in its licencing terms as it does.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 18:40:24
content:
  Honestly getting the future plans outlined (even with forgiving or no dates) would help allot -
  Especially on the technical side, allot of the neos community just assumes this isn't viable and a scam.

  I mean, we've seen (what i thought was) frooxengine running in an unreal client, but without more technical proof allot of people have assumed it's faked to hype up NCR
  I'm pretty sure you all want to keep quiet since you don't trust your own community, but without that transparency/communication the PR continues to get shittier.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 19:06:45
content:
  I agree. It would be in the interest of folks who are interested in NCR to understand what the roadmap looks like moving forward.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 20:45:37
edit_date: 2023-08-31 20:46:23
content:
  You know, even different versions of the frooxengine client weren't interoperable properly. So why would a new client even be compatible?


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 20:47:13
content:
  The moment the UE client would surpass the other in features, it wouldn't be interoperable any more. Even NeosPlus cannot connect with the original client


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 21:07:13
content:
  I have to agree. When I saw the trailer, I rushed into here excited to see a real project so I can finally get some funds for my site idea. But now that I've seen the Discord, I am rather confused on what to expect


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 21:31:14
content:
  Honestly, it wasn't a good idea to showcase that UE client from a business perspective in my opinion. Without any information, there was still hope that something would actually happen and continue, that perhaps a modding group started to build on the neos framework or the stalemate of code vs name would end. But yea, we know now how that ended and it doesn't look like the two groups got a copy of the project each to continue on their own way, but instead more that one got the code and the other just the name. Its a bit like microsoft would have had 2 owners and one got the name and the other windows source code.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 21:32:02
content:
  You don't have to be a mastermind to know what would be more successful and how easy it would be to add one or the other.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 21:38:00
content:
  The community. I have no hard data for that. If you have an opinion who got more support, i am listening?


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 21:44:40
content:
  Actually i lied, i do have pretty accurate data about that, but i can't share it here for multiple reasons. So yes, i want to hear your opinion if you want to share.


type: message
date: 2023-08-31 22:20:42
content:
  Thank you so much for fixing the account registration on the website Karel 💜🙏💜
  The MetaMovie and my own Neos project quantumbar.ai are both finalists for this year’s VR Awards and a seamless onboarding will help us a lot during the judging period 💜🏆😎


type: message
date: 2023-09-01 01:15:09
content:
  Wouldn't that mean the inspector and asset importation among other things would need to exist in the UE client?


type: message
date: 2023-09-02 22:03:10
edit_date: 2023-09-02 22:04:24
content:
  You cant change anything in your own custom client except for default userspace & rendering (to maintain interop)


type: message
date: 2023-09-02 22:04:02
edit_date: 2023-09-02 22:04:42
content:
  The only enticing thing you could do with a custom client would be adding extra but unsynced functionality (the exact same way modding current neos works)


type: message
date: 2023-09-02 22:11:50
content:
  It is theoretically possible to implement compatible sessions and syncing in multi-user environments between clients of differing engines.


type: message
date: 2023-09-02 22:24:58
content:
  Absolutely, but what's the point? it'll just boil down to different rendering & some optimizations when using different clients.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 06:46:51
edit_date: 2023-09-03 06:47:34
content:
  Thats a total misunderstanding or willful misinterpretation of what we are saying and doing as always. The point is to give developers the freedom they wanted and in some use cases is very much needed. This is not some Unity vs Unreal client thing. Yes we showed some Unreal footage because that is what we had at hand at the time of editing that very much UI and Neos Foundation focused video. Unity, Unreal and any other builds (I know of at least one more thats being worked on) should be open source and not controlled by any party as you suggest not sure why. They should be available for anyone to fork, may the best flavour win. Compatibility with Neos Cloud is also not a given. I don’t think a heavily centralised cloud is the only solution or the inevitable future for metaverses. That is extremely short sighted thinking. Also huge difference between keeping data format compatibility and multiplayer compatibility.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 07:02:58
content:
  Based on the history of social VR and neos itself, as long as there's someone playing and there's no multiplayer interop, everyone will congregate to the clients with players, almost completely regardless of quality.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 07:08:55
content:
  I think it's pretty poggers that NCR was never like, actually adopted by the playerbase because sharing and open-source was preferred.
  they bought into it, but never used it ingame like ever


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 09:09:38
content:
  There wasn't a direct workflow for fund transfer like with PayPal. For NCR you'd needed to:

  Step 1: Get a Coinbase account
  Step 2: Buy ETH
  Step 3: Transfer ETH to an external wallet, while making sure I have enough ETH to cover the transaction fee
  Step 4: Go to Uniswap
  Step 5: Find the NCR/ETH pair
  Step 6: Find out the amount of NCR I would like to swap for (also another thing the calculator would need to figure out transaction fee for)
  Step 7: Get the in-game wallet address
  Step 8: Send NCR to in-game wallet with further gas fees.

  Do the reverse to take funds out etc.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 09:12:56
content:
  Meanwhile, alternatives like PayPal were just create PayPal account, add payment method, enter destination email address and amount and the costs were also immediately visible per transaction before you sent anything


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 09:15:20
content:
  I imagine once Neos makes it as seamless, NCR will be actively used providing the overhead costs aren't significant


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 12:30:22
content:
  Karel i understand your frustrations at moderating this channel at time, as many  voices seam to be against you, but this is also a sign that there are still people out there that are actually interested in the future of neos. By alienating and banning them, you just removing the people that are bold enough to voice their opinions. And yes, ProbablePrime is definitly from "the other team" (as listed on their website) but also well respected as one of the main contributors, organizers and creators of neos. By banning him without giving warning or reason, you undermine your own project and peoples believe that your way could ever be successful. Specially because you talk about compatibility with Neos cloud and its objects between different clients and projects. If there is no space for different ideas, there never will be different projects in the first place.  Please rethink this.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 13:39:37
content:
  I have a question for Karel , will current worlds, items and stuff that we've built with the logixs system work in the Unreal Build?


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 18:10:26
content:
  So what is going to happen to all tutorials for new system? I was watching a few videos to prepare for the new client. But I guess now there won't be more guides?


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 18:54:28
content:
  I just want to virtually hand files to people and be able to subject my friends to memes that I pulled out of my pocket. Realtime development, a VR myspace page that you build yourself, decorating with objects you have collected from all around


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 18:59:17
content:
  That dream lives in whatever platform has the passion and dedication to let it exist. Neos was, and I want to believe still is that.


type: message
date: 2023-09-03 20:44:01
content:
  oh okay. I just wanted to fund some projects, but this whole thing has me scratching my head. Like giving NCR to people, even as a tip for their work, sounded so dope.


type: message
date: 2023-09-05 00:30:34
content:
  it's very early in development but it's using matrix for the user system and IPFS for the inventory. You will be able to host all your own stuff. Actually decentralized/federated, actually open source. They're working hard to get back what we all hoped Neos would be. More support gives us more time to work on it:
  https://www.patreon.com/pupperdev


type: message
date: 2023-09-05 06:19:33
content:
  Hi Violet , I’d like to kindly remind you that this group is dedicated to discussing Neos Credits and Neos Metaverse and as such it’s not a good place for advertising other projects or their funding. 

  I do wish you guys luck but please remove your post and adhere to the chat group rules, thank you ☺️


type: message
date: 2023-09-05 14:13:36
content:
  Is wiki.neos.com going to be fixed? wiki.neosvr.com works, but a good chunk of people still use links to wiki.neos.com.


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 09:20:53
content:
  Hi Neos Team, I am currently trying to purchase more storage with my NCR, as my storage has just expired, however, Neos is saying I have zero NCR in-game, while on the website, it is showing the correct amount. Any way I'll be able to purchase storage?


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 18:10:54
content:
  I take it back, for some reason there is a new system in place that authorizes without using the installed 2 factor auth... something that should be impossible, yes really impossible, because the datas should be encrypted with that 2 Factor. Its the reason that neos in the past was not able to recover someones NCR if the 2 factor was lost. Instead the new 2 factor is a code send by email. This is such an obvious breach of your internal security, i want a statement.


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 18:17:15
content:
  You don't understand... this new system would be fine if it would have asked "we had a change of system, please type in your 2fa to switch to the new system. Here is a documentation of the changes in encryption we are doing"


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 18:21:46
content:
  I want a statement HOW this is possible. Someone is severly breaching security. Its like you having a safe at a bank and they give you the only key and promisse that this is the only key and they can not do anything if you lose it. And then you go there and they say "oh we switched out how our security works, we don't use keys anymore, please tell us your last name so you get access to your money again"


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 18:26:05
content:
  Its not about the CHANGE of the security, its about them not needing the key do to so... it means someone lied


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 19:31:27
edit_date: 2023-09-06 19:31:49
content:
  This is a horrible breach of trust. There is literally money involved.

  Yes i am aware the bank could go drill that safe, in our example, and take out the money and put it in another safe. But this is absolutly unacceptable and shows a lack of awareness for safety. I chose to protect my NCR with the means of that 2fa, i chose to accept that this is the only way to get to that money again. If my e-mail is hacked, i had trust that this would in no way impact the NCR on my account, because the security of the 2fa would prevent any actions involving them.

  This security is now gone, without asking for any key, without asking for any permission. This is absolutly not acceptable and i am obviously angry about this total lack of professionalism.


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 19:42:04
edit_date: 2023-09-06 19:42:30
content:
  it sends now a mail with a key. So the old 2fa is just... gone. Without asking, without needing them for the change.


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 19:45:20
content:
  I want the staking to go well. If my endpoint information isn't secured, that's very tricky for me to trust the system. Really hoping there is a simple explanation for all this.


type: message
date: 2023-09-06 19:46:15
content:
  im at least aware that there's some kind of old and new system for ncr and it is transferred somehow


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 00:44:43
content:
  So, from my understanding of conversations in this chat it seems that Neos is aiming to eventually allow alternate clients to exist. Is that correct?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 03:48:45
content:
  I have to agree with this. I can find lots of information on the Unity client, but I can't find any discussions on the future staking and utility of NCR. Are they hidden?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 03:52:15
content:
  All discussion on NCR on discord is within the # neos-credits-ncr channel and in various topic threads


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 08:01:31
content:
  If you have been here for long enough or know the entire picture starting from before the hold, you understand why


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 08:59:05
content:
  Email confirmation is an additional security measure used by most managed wallets including most exchanges


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 09:04:29
content:
  Personally, I think the CTO is more to blame, and I don't care about the past. I just want the best for the future.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 09:24:51
content:
  We are aiming to have multiple clients for users to choose from and also have all clients including the Unity ones open source.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 09:58:22
content:
  If the clients dont have to use the same database structure nor have to be compatible on a networking level for multiplayer

  What connects them as not just separate things?
  Because from what was said before it sounds like they'd just be their own isolated projects with at best some vague shared ideas


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 10:03:00
content:
  The data model I would say would be the minimum connecting requirement to make them part of the same Neos Metaverse family.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 10:05:27
edit_date: 2023-09-07 10:05:44
content:
  Firstly I expect Tomáš to make good on his promise to open source NeosVR. Something we agreed a long time ago will be done.
  Secondly I expect other devs to do Unity builds as well as it is easier than Unreal as the data model is geared towards it and Neos Foundation is willing to support that effort both financially and otherwise.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 10:16:02
content:
  Ahh, that's a pity. As much as I know, I might be wrong. When he left he stopped working on NeosVR, and there is so much work left to do to even be able to consider making it open source. There are a lot of proprietary components that need replacement, before any of that could happen.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:14:20
content:
  this seems unclear to me
  if 2fa (authenticator) used to be required and now it has involuntarily changed to 2fa (email) how was this possible to perform securely?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:23:16
content:
  2FA technically. It is just another gate protected by a cryptographic proof to allow access to a function. Its application is defined by however the hosting party configures the services. By switching from TOTP to e-mail verification, technically no security was circumvented, broken nor missing. So the technical part is sound


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:25:02
edit_date: 2023-09-07 13:30:43
content:
  Semantically however switching from TOTP to e-mail verification is unsound. If someone relied on TOTP protecting the funds and then only simple e-mail verification is possible as a second factor, it raises valid concerns


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:28:02
edit_date: 2023-09-07 13:29:30
content:
  Karel please fix and put TOTP in place again to prevent unauthorized access to Neos based wallets. Thank you


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:28:33
content:
  so if i understand, because the old system with off chain uses 2fa only for allowing user transactions only, can be separate of a new system


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:29:38
content:
  Technically it can still be used, however I don't know much about the backend system, I can only assume things and base these mostly of things said in this group. As I haven't checked trying to withdraw my NCR yet


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:30:45
content:
  fair
  this can get complex easily for someone who isn't very aware, all these changes should need to be documented and explained..


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:30:50
content:
  Email verification is a possible factor in 2FA, however it is a weak one. SMS is a bit better, but they still cannot hold a candle to OTPs


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:54:49
content:
  Now I am even more confused. Does this mean each version will have separate staking and security practices for wallet linking? If the team that worked on the Unity system are all not employed, how can we know they will follow with the new staking plans?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 13:57:28
content:
  that cant be right, i assume the "new" system is meant to replace the "old", regarding ncr
  and that should mean it includes staking on the "new" one only since that's what is important?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 14:02:20
content:
  Not necessarily, the backend could just link into the new API or it could be completely rewritten from scratch to accommodate the old client


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 15:23:04
edit_date: 2023-09-07 15:24:12
content:
  What's the point of the Unreal build if it's much more work than a new unity one? Isn't that kind of shooting yourself in the foot?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 16:03:27
content:
  That's why I asked on why so many builds on so many engines. The Unreal one looks fine. Just focus on the Unity and Unreal one. Just that with the Unity one's dev team now gone, I guess all the effort should go to the Unreal one? How many teams are there for this project?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 16:41:32
content:
  I mean I know of one? whoever karel has doing the unreal build. Unity as you said isn't going anywhere and I know someone was attaching a godot renderer but they dropped the project a while ago according to them. 

  Course they didn't have the source so it was a bodge job of hooking into the existing DLLs. Not sure Karels but as far as i know he doesn't either, but to his credit they look to have the MTC first room mostly set up in unreal.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 17:09:04
edit_date: 2023-09-07 17:09:14
content:
  the godot project is actually resumed but will not be opensource nor handed out its a side project for them


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 17:14:10
content:
  You can still use TOTP to protect login and thus NCR transactions as well. We’ll for sure add it in the future for moving NCR only so it’s more comfortable and you don’t have to protect login as much if you don’t want to.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 17:29:58
content:
  But why do we have to disable OTP for logging into our accounts on the website? It doesn't sound like this was an issue in the past based on what everyone is saying


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 17:31:19
content:
  if I need to get my address info to send NCR to and I'm not able to use any client, how am I supposed to just have access without always leaving my account exposed?


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 21:10:39
edit_date: 2023-09-07 21:10:58
content:
  Since it is apparent to me you're targeting an open spec, would this mean that Neos and it's asset system will be open to federation with future platforms? If that is true, please provide a link to any documentation of how the asset structure is currently designed so integrations can be made.


type: message
date: 2023-09-07 23:24:00
content:
  I hope so. I've seen so many cool things and having it available in the Unreal system would be amazing


type: message
date: 2023-09-08 22:03:20
content:
  Any update on this Karel @malooniac ?  It's preventing me from using my NCR to get more storage and hampers my ability to use a lot of Neos currently.


type: message
date: 2023-09-09 01:05:09
content:
  Hi Josha  can you please give me more details about your issue? I’d be happy to help.
  We have added “Create an account” form to the account.neos web UI so that should be fairly straighforward process. Or are you having trouble to register in-game?


type: message
date: 2023-09-09 01:14:55
content:
  Hi Lilith Lilith, it seems from your comment that you might have a problem with not receiving your Patreon storage benefits? 
  If that is the case, could you please email us your details on hello@neos.com so we can assist you? 😊

  We are still tweaking the automation of the new system at the moment, so some issues are unfortunatelly possible. Many thanks for your support and patience!


type: message
date: 2023-09-09 01:23:24
content:
  Hello😊If you are referring to issues with Patreon and Cloud storage sync, we are in the process of making fixes and working on full automation of this system. In a meantime, anyone experiencing issues can (and should) of course flag it up either here or via hello@neos.com  so we can assist with individual cases in this interim period.


type: message
date: 2023-09-09 01:53:03
content:
  Thank you,I think I've got you now. It seems that this one has slipped from my radar, apologies. Your issue was with buying your storage under a different Patreon email than your Neos account email correct?


type: message
date: 2023-09-10 13:37:05
content:
  under neos unity (legacy?) client, i can't find any tokens. under website, i checked only NCR, not include KFC, CDFT.


type: message
date: 2023-09-10 20:47:58
content:
  Well, I mean, with the in-game and website wallets desyncing, it doesn't seem like it's properly supported.


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 18:04:23
content:
  What is the fix and is there anything that can be done to prevent? Any work-around yet to get things to display right?


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 18:06:04
edit_date: 2023-09-12 18:06:20
content:
  if you manage to perform a transaction (ie storage purchase; enable the buy button with an inspector and you can force a request) then it may show up and work again properly
  i have no idea why this is


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:10:35
content:
  Hi all, I hope everyone is having a great week so far. 

  As we have been getting quite a few emails and messages regarding the storage purchasing issue. I’d like to point out that we are aware of current challenges with buying storage in Neos and the inconvenience this is causing. 
  I can absolutely assure you that we are working on it.
  Soon you will be able to purchase storage directly through your account interface on Neos website (the greyed out button will finally come alive!✨) It is taking a wee bit longer because we’ve had 101 other issues to tackle but we are of course making this a priority. 

  Thank so much for you for your understanding!


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:11:28
content:
  Hi Kazu. The CDFTs should be largely converted to NCR - if you have an enquiry about the balance please email us on hello@neos.com so we can take a look for you. 😊

  Also someone has asked about KFC, this was a testing currency and we won’t be using it anymore. Overall, your Neos web account should display the correct amount of NCR and nothing else. (No CDFT or KFC).


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:17:41
content:
  Apparently, some people of the community are not happy hearing about the loss of KFC. I'm not sure why, so I guess someone can fill me in on why the testing currency has such a high priority to the community?


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:26:16
content:
  Not sure why they will be removing KFC, its whole point was a testing currency so you could test your functionality without using or requiring NCR, also acted as a specifically no value currency for game worlds to use should they wish to without having to be handling currency with value in case of issues.


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:34:01
edit_date: 2023-09-12 23:34:20
content:
  It wasn't a 'testing currency' like a temporary thing before NCR was added and only meant for that, it was for the purpose of testing before using a currency. Will just need to do something else I guess


type: message
date: 2023-09-12 23:55:04
content:
  I am not sure I've personally seen the option for a community vote regarding anything really. Certainly not in regards to changes in features


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 03:23:17
content:
  KFC was used in game for games as a way to have a kind of currency reward that is not tied to real money.

  For example theres a fishing world where you can sell your fish for KFC


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 03:48:10
content:
  This - since you can make "tip jars" and other payment methods using in game scripting, it was best to test with the fake currency first before implementing the real currency functionality. You don't want to be testing functionality with real money - or having your payment fail during a real scenario without having been tested prior. I guess theoretically you could make 2 Neos accounts and just shuffle the real money between them to test out implementations now.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 04:28:18
content:
  Is there a solid explanation why it was removed? I'm gonna assume like others it's in preparation of something


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 04:34:38
content:
  according to what was given, it doesn't seem that way.
  As per Andrea: "Also someone has asked about KFC, this was a testing currency and we won’t be using it anymore. Overall, your Neos web account should display the correct amount of NCR and nothing else. (No CDFT or KFC)."


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 04:45:05
content:
  okay but whats the functional replacement? Being able to test transaction systems is actually vital.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 04:53:56
content:
  do you really want to use NCR for testing systems you dont know for sure work? like what if you have something wrong and it sends it into the ether? Or someone pays some and it fails?


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 04:59:01
content:
  I mean generic you, but my point stands. its there, or was, so that you can test in game systems without risking something


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 05:23:41
content:
  I mean... I don't know. Having a testing system sounds like a good idea, but I'm guessing here was some major reason testing shouldn't be done anymore? I just heard about this project because I was looking forward to see Cooper Planet's return


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 06:17:49
edit_date: 2023-09-13 06:21:18
content:
  well KFC not actually being a crypto or able to interact with any chain made it a poor test currency in the end anyway


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 06:20:49
content:
  KFC was perfect for testing in software applcation of NCR.

  You just  make a tool, use KFC and once you know everything works you just swap the tool over to use NCR


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 06:22:51
content:
  Yeah but only in neos and afaik it can't interact with any contract or help test any sort of automatic withdrawls etc


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 06:24:02
content:
  Well yeah but it was for in application testing, iirc it was also used to test Patreon reward seeding


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 06:57:33
content:
  Karel @malooniac, unfortunately, as people have stated here already. The removal of a testing currency to test transactions in new projects will hinder the development of these projects. KFC wasn't supposed to be just a currency to test the Neos transaction system. It was a currency to use during development of new content for Neos to be able to have completely fake transactions that actually work like real ones.
  To me this looks to me like one more thing where you alienate the creator community again. This time even away from creating systems that interact with NCR.
  I'd suggest you seek the dialogue with the creator community as to what could be done to improve the situation and restore a healthy relationship.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:08:49
content:
  im sorry but its for Kompletely  fake transactions as its Kompletely Fake Currency. 

  jokes aside, yeah im not sure how your supposed to test systems in game without it.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:18:55
content:
  KFC is no longer available in NeosVR? I don’t think we have removed it. There’s a deeper issue with us not being able to update NeosVR to make it work with the newer NCR API. KFC is meant to test application side transactions, interactions with LogiX nodes. That wouldn’t be useful on the web for now. Neos compatible clients will for sure feature test tokens if not KFC directly to test token transactions.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:23:09
content:
  Atleast my guess would be whatever endpoint is checked for balances isn't there anymore or isn't responding correctly? Another user was able to show that transactions with both NCR/KFC are still possible by bypassing the client side sanity check that just compares the balance to what you have. (just re-enable the sending button)


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:29:22
content:
  I see, if all balances are showing 0 in NeosVR thats probably a good thing to indicate that NeosVR transactions are now not available until an update to the new NCR API. Not much point of testing transactions with KFC if NCR is not available in the client anyways. I hope the functionality will return to NeosVR at some point.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:31:58
content:
  Perhaps reverting the changes to how the API responds would be a good idea until you can update Neos?


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:44:36
edit_date: 2023-09-13 07:45:33
content:
  It seems like transactions do work just whatever the endpoint that provides the amount isn't working. Making the process of doing any transaction difficult.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 07:45:33
content:
  There are now automated withdrawals and deposits. NeosVR is set up for manual ones which would be confusing to users. There will be staking soon as well. NeosVR definitely needs an update unfortunately. Making Neos Account managed wallets better and transactions faster is important for the future of NCR and Neos Metaverse in general.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 08:00:51
content:
  Automated withdrawals and staking are big changes to NCR that the old way NCR works in NeosVR does not support.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 08:02:29
content:
  I think NeosVR will be open sourced at some point as was promised. Aside of that there will be more clients that will be open source.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 08:24:36
content:
  You actually have to have a test currency backend that is working exactly the same as the production currency. This is required for integration testing the systems before moving them to production. Also, I don't see why there was even a need to break the NeosVR compatible API to begin with. They could have continued working in parallel, even if the NeosVR compatible layer was just a translator for the new currency API


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 08:28:24
content:
  I'm certain that is possible, as the legacy API could be replaced with a translation layer to contact the new API. No update in NeosVR needed and you'd have KFC and automated withdrawals working again


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 11:04:54
content:
  afaik there is no development happening to NeosVR (legacy unity client) any more. That also means there will be no open source variant of NeosVR


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 15:13:54
edit_date: 2023-09-13 15:14:52
content:
  Brownie points is all he has, and with the team still maintaining the servers despite supposedly not caring about the community by account of Karel, I don't think he has any.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 15:15:44
content:
  If they didn't care why run the weekly events, and maintain servers? lol. I never understood that argument.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 17:45:41
content:
  I believe Karel (Neos Foundation) is the one maintaining the cloud and any server VPCs at this point. I do not believe the Neos Team maintains any parts of the current infrastructure and may not even have access. Karel can confirm that.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 18:23:45
content:
  While I want NCR to do well and the new staking to be amazing, I have to agree the old team is still active because of notices for hours office streams, but I didn't know keeping the system components operational wasn't one of the tasks.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 18:24:57
content:
  from what I read of their announcements of previous outages, they might be doing what they can but still do not have access to everything


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 19:24:32
content:
  Kinda IIRC Raithsphere runs the asset variance servers on his personal computers for everything else I believe the access is much less direct.


type: message
date: 2023-09-13 19:38:03
edit_date: 2023-09-13 19:43:20
content:
  I think that's for supplemental support only and there's a VPC in the cloud that handles light volume


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 08:30:01
content:
  wild reading the discord where there's a channel dedicated to everyone in it trying to outdo themselves in exaggerated takes on every thing karel does


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 08:31:47
content:
  I think everyone's trying their best to fix things, maybe embrace that instead of pretending to care here then mask-off on the discord that actually youre only posting here to stir up shit to complain about


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 08:32:38
edit_date: 2023-09-14 08:34:38
content:
  that aside it's weird to see devs now say "actually we were always planning to leave unity" THE MOMENT it becomes the hot thing to do


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 09:53:43
edit_date: 2023-09-14 09:53:52
content:
  Most people over here dont even say anything as you get banned quite quickly for asking questions or criticising things.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 12:19:36
content:
  seriously it was so bad then.. and now....
  crashing constantly for meager issues, lag like hell, silly bugs like blendshapes


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 13:04:23
content:
  Karel should stop breaking things. People usually call out everything that breaks things for the creator community. Working against the community doesn't really help Neos Metaverse's cause. If there is no creator left, there is no content, the utility for NCR vanishes. We don't want that happen


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 15:02:04
content:
  What are you talking about? The entire reason geenz was brought on by froox was to help with rendering so we could get rid of unity. The main purpose of UIX was to reduce reliance on unity. It's been causing issues for years, *especially* on Linux and android where major graphical issues and broken GC make the game pretty unplayable.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 15:21:02
edit_date: 2023-09-14 15:24:51
content:
  We were always planning to leave unity TBH. There has been work on a custom graphics engine for years now. The ColorX update was supposed to be a stop-gap while the new engine was being brought up to snuff, but replacing Unity was always on the roadmap.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 15:29:55
content:
  Trade offer I swap to rgba32 and untick crunch *android build* locks up completely sometimes headset reset and Linux build goes *ha what's mem management*


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 15:59:20
content:
  I've been watching people get banned over some seriously small stuff. I'm seriously risking getting banned by even mentioning how "FUD" being a ban reason sounds very much like how a cult operates. "If you're not 100% in with these ideas and start questioning our logic, you're to be silenced." And if I get banned now, you know why. We're not allowed to question reasoning here. 🤷‍♀
  Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, should be responded to with reasons not to have those feelings, not banned. If you can't soothe those feelings, then maybe you might need to take a closer look at why people feel that way instead of just saying they're wrong for having those feelings. (and summarily launching them out an airlock)
  This should be a place of intellectual conversation, not an echo chamber. Not being an echo chamber is important for a company to succeed, being able to admit wrongs, fix problems that arise, and make things better. Remember that it's hard to keep track of lies, and simpler to just be honest. People will ALWAYS catch you in a lie eventually. Not saying Karel is lying, just covering all the bases. It's important to be able to accept criticism and discuss it rather than assume everyone is out to slander you. Banning should only be for those who are legitimately trying to be shitty people, which is very hard to determine; not everyone's social skills are very good. (That would mean that bans should be very rare, and discussion should be the primary moderation tool.)


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:03:50
edit_date: 2023-09-14 16:04:37
content:
  This is not about feelings really. I've seen people intentionally creating FUD being removed so far. Or those out right against Karel coming with unreasonable matters against him. If people who voice concerns or are questioning what's going on, then I wonder why I am still here and being able to talk.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:06:16
content:
  FUD is a weird reason for banning, absolutely. At least in the way that the crypto community uses it it's literally conspiracy thought. In the original context of the Halloween documents it was an actual corporate policy for how to manage the threat of the OSS development model to their core product. It's fundamentally opaque as to the motivations of some rando in a chatroom, so calls of FUD are just weaving a narrative about them being part of a microsoft-spin-team tier disinformation campaign :P

  Which is silly.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:10:43
content:
  Some of those perceived unreasonable matters have been legitimate concerns, things that Karel assumed wasn't important, when in reality it was. Things that would interfere with his end goal, that he just doesn't want to deal with, but will have to when he gets to that point.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:11:40
edit_date: 2023-09-14 16:12:18
content:
  Indeed, I wonder about the Unreal Engine devs as well. Until recently the devs were known and interacting with the community. Everything was transparent and the community was heard and there was open dialogue.
  I wonder, why can't we interact with the UE developers and create a good relationship with the community?


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:13:33
edit_date: 2023-09-14 16:16:12
content:
  To me it looks more like intentional trolling being wrapped in something that looked like legitimate concerns. I'm confident that it was like that with at least a few of those people muted or removed from this group.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:18:57
edit_date: 2023-09-14 16:28:34
content:
  Most of it is most definitely trolling, or at least said with some venom in their words, but he still needs to make sure he takes care of every possible angle or he -will- land himself in hot water down the line that he could have prevented by listening to those snarky remarks. Many people are not favorable of him because he lets his emotions get out of hand, and he makes rash decisions. Either he needs to see an anger management specialist, or needs to disconnect his emotions from what's being said and look at everything from a logical standpoint. Emotional knee-jerk reactions will utterly destroy anything it's applied to.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:24:38
content:
  Haven't we all :P Some people are not capable of doing that, and should not be in the position of dealing with Q&A. Some shouldn't even LOOK at the Q&A department, and have someone interpret things for them who know how to do it.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:33:45
content:
  and I guess that it goes without saying, that it's okay to not be good at something. The important part of this, is to be able to acknowledge it, and follow the appropriate steps to address the issue, and either learn how to do it right, or find someone who can do it for you. None of us are true jacks of all trades, and we all need some help every now and then.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:40:49
content:
  No? like the team that isn't going to ever work with karel is, but we have no idea who the Unread Engine devs are.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 16:43:35
content:
  This is partly why I'm so confused. How come the devs on one system are more outgoing and public, yet the newer system's devs aren't even available? Like, maybe they have some cool insights on things they're working on, but we don't get to see any of it.


type: message
date: 2023-09-14 21:53:07
content:
  Yeah, I don't get it either. The community outreach and management has been kinda abyssal, which confuses me, because I'm honestly of the opinion that the primary asset in the platform is the community created content. At the moment, I'm just like "okay, major changes ahead, entirely new engine in the mix, possibly breaking everything I have on the platform and... zero idea how to plan for it."

  It is really weird coming from the previous MO, where we had pretty much entirely community sourced QA teams giving direct feedback on each non-hotfix update.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:41:58
content:
  I mean how long has it been since any of you have known the details about the split? Does anyone even now know for sure?

  Basically how long has a move to Unreal been a neccessity for Karel? Because it feels like a neccessity that's been thrust onto him, maybe from some outcome.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:45:36
content:
  If that's the case, it feels unfair to be hounding him on details, especially when from what reports I've heard, the struggle to make things happen falls on him


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:46:56
content:
  Because from what I've been told, there's not any actual real anxiety within the community. Everyone across the pond is just saying Froox has the code and he'll launch the familiar client for everyone soon anyway.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:48:14
content:
  So genuinely asking, are people really concerned, or are they mostly just drawn to an opportunity to concern-troll the shit out of the situation?


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:48:57
content:
  How is it unfair ever to ask for more details about something like this??
  If theres not more information about something they can just say so, this sounds kinda infantilizing


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:55:13
content:
  Lets pretend youre not biased and dont hate the guy. How its not fair is that it sounds like the split leaves one side to no real obligation to act, and the other has to rush to fabricate some sort of plans. One site is generally adored for having been silent on issues or communicating through proxies while another gets shit on for each effort exerted.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:56:34
content:
  so you also basically spend a year subjecting this person to this treatment, then turn around and go "buh wuh I was asking a legitimate question! Why aren't they taking me seriously?"


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:57:27
content:
  How oyu feel about the guy is irrelevant.
  People can ask questions, he can answers.
  There's nothing unfair about that, if he hasnt had enough time yet to iron out some details, he has the power to say so.

  Karel and Andrea are both Adults and they can both communicate for themselves


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:58:00
content:
  and tbh I really don't know if people care about what Karel will being to Neos so much as they want to interact with someone they hate and mine stuff to complain about


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 05:59:49
content:
  Yeah and Karel can choose who to respond to as an adult.
  Again this seems like you are infantilizing him, as if he cant handle people asking questions himself


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:00:45
edit_date: 2023-09-15 06:01:13
content:
  be honest, you dont really care what he'll do, you just want him to fail and then go over and celebrate on the "real" client


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:01:47
content:
  I dont see how that is relevant regardless, i have my own thoughts on how things will turn out that doesnt change anything about what we are talking about


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:02:20
content:
  Intent doesnt matter.

  People are asking questions, karel can choose to respond to them and moderate the space.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:02:28
content:
  It makes all the difference because no one wants to interact with someone they know is acting not in good faith


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:03:38
edit_date: 2023-09-15 06:04:05
content:
  why do you feel youre entitled to everyone's time or every thought in their head just by asking? Thats the real infantile behavior imo


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:03:45
content:
  Often interactions with people you disagree with are not for any of the two actually interacting, but those on the side lines.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:06:21
content:
  Someone asking a question doesnt mean they are entitled to anything.
  There's nothing wrong with just asking a question.

  You are entitled to ask, you are not inherently entitled to an answer.

  Also your constant shifting to try and make this personal and attack me directly is incredibly transparent. If you want to complain about bad faith, maybe you should look at what you are doing first.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:07:42
content:
  It comes across as extremely tonedeath and maybe just WEIRD to spend so much time being a part of a dogpile against someone, then turn around, put on a mask and say "wtf theyre ignoring me? but im a person qith questions! QUESTIONS FOR GODS SAKE"


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:10:37
content:
  Also not attacking someone even if you dislike them potentially isnt "putting on a mask" it's called being civil.
  Regardless how you feel about someone theres no progress to be made in slinging insults and attacks


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:10:45
content:
  I guess now you just want access to his devs that for all I knwo may not exist, and if I was him I think it'd be extremely stupid to line them up just to be distracted by stale drama and disingenuous behavior


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:13:26
content:
  Well I never requested such but it would be neat, since if we'd have the devs here we could ask more specific questions about implementations.

  I know this may be a bit confusing if youve not played neos or played it just to hang out but, a lot of us including myself are developers who create things within neos, so getting an understanding of the implementations is a pretty important thing for what we do


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:15:45
content:
  maybe right now patience is in order.. youre giving Froox that patience, maybe give it to the other if you actually care


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:18:12
content:
  Has source, doesn't have source, wants change, wants updates.
  I just want stake, but stake is only good if all systems work?
  I find trailer, get reminded of the old Cooper's Planet project that I missed, and think on how well it could finally be.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:18:19
content:
  Are people hounding froox right now for updates? I bet if I asked him a question directly Id have 20 furs down my throat and not in a good way


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:19:43
content:
  People are from time to time,but the difference here is that from the Neos discord the response is to wait for an announcement.

  Karel on the other hand has been making announcements and not said to wait for another announcement


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:21:02
content:
  Releasing things like this update to the website UI is gonna have people asking questions, and mentioning UE and stuff like that is also having people ask questions naturally


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:22:32
content:
  my issue is I feel those asking questions are often just doing motivated speaking, not really wanting to be a part of what theyre asking about


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:25:25
content:
  Eh, i think that would also be fine if it was the case. as was pointed out  a bit up any answer to a question given is for more than just the person asking the question, it answers it for anyone else who has a similiar or the same question, so personal investment isnt really an issue


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:27:29
content:
  then I guess my suggestion would be for karel to just ignore certain people if he knows theyre just interacting to waste his time


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:28:17
content:
  My suggestion there would be more to manage your time.
  Dont answer questions if theres other things you need to do, or delegate


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 06:56:04
content:
  The problem is, a few of these questions are intentionally loaded with information that instigates FUD.
  Also you guys were talking about different things, so you couldn't agree anyway


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 11:20:23
content:
  Honestly I am happy for the changes. I was banned from the platform for baseless reasons with no proof, no appeal and no redemption. All that ncr unavailable to trade. Hopefully with the right people incharge i can get a review of my account so i can enjoy what the platform was ment to be.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 11:22:09
content:
  I spoke out about a user grooming a minor and because his mate ran a popular degenerate private world the mods were pressed into banning me instead


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 14:21:04
content:
  The people that literally play the game aren't a part of what they're talking about? Karel has placed a clear divide between "players" and "investors", but without players, a vital part of the game is lost. So much of what makes neos what it is comes from the UGC, which is made by, y'know, players. That's the crux of the argument we're making.


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 14:23:27
content:
  Didn't Karel say something along the lines of "This isn't about the players, this is about the investors" at one point?


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 15:02:16
content:
  You do realize that an account ban doesnt stop you from logging in ergo doesnt stop you from using your NCR? right?


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 15:06:35
content:
  No bans stop you from logging in, the the only thing that can stop a log in is the way certain account restrictions against wiki abusers were handled by karel or whoever. Which was to iirc just unathenticate the account.
  Which id assume was not on purpose, although karel or andrea could comment on that


type: message
date: 2023-09-15 15:14:34
content:
  And if you cannot do that, you could still write to hello@neos.com and ask for the NCR amount to be transferred


type: message
date: 2023-09-17 20:05:07
content:
  it's currently about 10pm for both andrea and karel so i would not expect a reply today (this is assuming they are in prague) 
  best to expect a mention monday morning to mid day Prague time


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 00:39:02
content:
  I dont think the main landing page is hosted on azure, could be wrong tho @LinkaIndustries do you know?


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 01:02:20
content:
  Yes, mostly because he said so. lol 

  and it was just after him pointing out a couple things, i do not recall what exactly it was at this point, as i said its been a few weeks.


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 01:03:29
edit_date: 2023-09-18 01:08:37
content:
  Yes, he was banned, prime mentioned it when that occurred on discord https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/996964315145961542/1147789762229440523


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 08:33:39
content:
  Yeah I still get the azure 403. Microsoft docs say this error comes up when the site's billing limit is reached, the app was stopped manually, or when a resource quota limit was reached. What's going on?


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 09:44:39
content:
  Hi all, yes messages received loud and clear, thank you🙏... apologies for all the inconveniece this is causing and thank you for informing us. We are looking into the issue and we will of course keep you updated!


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 10:22:00
content:
  Everything should now work as normal now, apologies once again for the glitch! Thank you so much for your patience.


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 12:41:36
content:
  Some peeps are curious what the problem may have been.
  From the fix i'd assume there was a change done to the url the app is served on and it was just forgotten to redirect, am i correct here or was it something more severe?


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 14:19:14
content:
  login works for me and typing in random thingsleads to "invalid credentials" thats odd behaviour the failed to fetch


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 15:00:18
content:
  ive gone to the sign in page now from all places and not found one that doesnt work for me, so no clue whats causing it, link is correct


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 18:35:03
content:
  Thank you for fixing it! 

  What was the problem? Is this Telegram channel the best way to notify the Neos team of future outages (if there ever are any)?


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 22:24:12
content:
  There is no neos team anymore.
  All we have is the shadow dev team "neos foundation" as far as I've gathered
  Despite old team neos resigning they still clean up API breakages though, but thu have nothing to do with the new account page, that's entirely neos foundation


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 23:36:38
content:
  I guess I was referring to the group/team/entity that is currently actively operating/fixing Neos and specifically the folks who fixed this recent glitch.


type: message
date: 2023-09-18 23:46:52
edit_date: 2023-09-18 23:47:02
content:
  Ok. So to break down my question: 

  in the event that a glitch like this happens again, what is the best and quickest way to notify the apropriate person/people? Is it this Telegram grup or some other way?


type: message
date: 2023-09-19 20:43:56
content:
  So, upon recommendation on discord, i came here, because i pay for bladerunner on patreon since end of august (due to my storage space suddenly being way more full, than it should have been) and i still am agent smith level


type: message
date: 2023-09-19 20:55:14
content:
  the admins have recommended others to reach out to hello@neos.com in some cases, but i think you are in the right place
  i believe @malooniac can help with this patreon issue?


type: message
date: 2023-09-19 20:56:07
content:
  i'm still very new to telegram, like i just created an account for it or logged in minutes before my first post


type: message
date: 2023-09-19 20:57:23
content:
  also i have social anxiety, while i can interact with most ppl, there's a level i can't really go to, due to that


type: message
date: 2023-09-19 21:19:38
content:
  I get the new systems are being made, but the number of reported issues only going up feels it is getting out of control


type: message
date: 2023-09-20 01:16:57
content:
  and why did i pay more than gunter level, in 2 weeks, for bladerunner, i changed to bladerunner near end of august, had another 7 taken on 1st of september


type: message
date: 2023-09-20 01:27:39
content:
  that's... weird. Guess we have to wait and see what Andrea and Karel have to say. Have you sent them an email?


type: message
date: 2023-09-20 06:45:13
content:
  Hi @Berny4000 I have just found your email, I am very sorry about the issue and making you wait. We will definitelly look at it and I will come back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for emailing us and letting me know!


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 00:58:29
edit_date: 2023-09-22 00:58:38
content:
  Pry gonna get banned for this but Plz yall, support Froox with their new project, and if I am booted, I salute you all

  o7


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 00:58:59
edit_date: 2023-09-22 01:01:18
content:
  Not necessarily saying you have to donate, but just mentioning that as of now Neos unity client is officially dead.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 01:00:08
content:
  Not super likely.

  Although. There is an account downloader that they have been encouraging people to use. Speculation is that the new project will allow the community to bring over some of their Neos content.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 01:02:00
content:
  Still should backup your account if you haven't already, the link is super wide spread so ask around for it and you should find it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 01:03:09
content:
  Since ProbablePrime (in an office hours) confirmed they've got the whole public DB backed up, it'd be weird to have everything but 90% of it's broken


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 01:03:15
content:
  Or dm me about it if yall wish as I don't wanna post links to it as I don't want people to reverse engineer it to block it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 01:31:33
content:
  A bunch of stuff was still maintained, repaired and helped by the old team. 
  Now that will stop...

  You already notice that heavily as the messaging system is breaking down at the moment.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 02:17:04
content:
  The backup has no impact on the data of neos, its just a local copy that you can't even import back into neos. Someone would need to create a program to do that


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:37:12
content:
  Playerbase will move to Resonite, Karel will probably choose Unity to rewrite Neos (and if Unity keeps up what they're doing, he'll lose more money), but until the rewrite something will go wrong and they won't be able to legally update it because it's Froox's engine


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:46:29
content:
  Also here's a bump for those who cared about Neos and its community 

  https://www.patreon.com/Resonite


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:50:35
content:
  Of which Karel's tried doubling down on his crypto scheme and the devs + Froox wanted nothing to do with it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:50:37
content:
  One of the big differences that Froox and Karel had was surrounding crypto. The crypto stuff was mainly Karel's vision if I understand correctly.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:52:11
edit_date: 2023-09-22 03:52:31
content:
  No. Froox was on board eith crypto. It was personal relationship issues. It was when they had a disagreement and wanted Karel gone that Froox and others threatened to gut NCR as a way to try to push Karel out


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:53:27
content:
  Of course thats the revises history furries will tell thenselves. But the truth is much more complicated. NCR didn't cause the drama. NCR has been arouns since 2018.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:53:45
content:
  Not likely unless individual creators accept eth.

  As mentioned before, most projects were a community effort or individual effort. Some commissions here and there but those were mainly handled by services like paypal.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:53:54
content:
  I just know Neos Discord had projects, but also there was to be many viewers. Now Unity wants money and client is dead.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:55:01
content:
  Again no it wasn't. You've been brainwormed by all the noise. People wanted to make it about crypto when the whole thing was always Karel vs Froox and their friendship falling out.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:56:28
content:
  The issue was the team felt Karol was making unilateral decisions that negatively affected the platform and all of their work. They were very clear about that.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:56:33
content:
  You do realize you were the one "brainwormed" by Karel, right?

  It was crypto, he was a hard-headed supporter of it 

  They wanted crypto out, he wouldn't budge, if he didn't quit they quit themselves


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:58:08
content:
  But unity team just left and didn't give source code. So unity client still using Unity and cannot be fixed to not use unity?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:58:49
content:
  I dont have time to waste on you so if you want to believe the issues was Froox was like "crypto is icky but we cant remove it because karel" then fine believe that despite NCR being a part of funding Neos servers since 2018.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 03:59:45
content:
  Neos is a bit weird. The majority of the backend is a custom C# engine, it just uses the rendering engine from Unity.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:00:10
content:
  "NCR has become an issue and crashed, we can't have it as a mainline feature if we want to progress"

  Karel wanted it built into Neos 

  Froox said it could be a third party addon

  Karel didn't budge 

  Here we are today


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:00:48
content:
  Honestly no one can give a clear answer on that one right now. Unity has not been great with their clarifications.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:02:39
content:
  thats not how it went. Im sure Karel wanted NCR being more a central focus for Neos, but the reason Froox said he wanted NCR third party was because Karel managed that part of Neos and it was a very poor proposal to get him to leave. But that was AFTER the issues. Not the reason for them.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:04:47
content:
  It'll probably have the new rendering engine to replace the unity one that's been in development the past 2 years


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:05:25
content:
  Resonite will have the same feel as Neos, where Neos will have to be rebuilt and (probably) feel different


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:07:03
content:
  I really enjoyed the feel of grabbing items, locomotion, and working on modifying stuff in Neos and imo executed it perfectly

  Good luck trying to remake that Karel lol


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:08:23
content:
  Well I hope its good. I have mixed feelings of wanting to be hopefuo but also alot of emotional baggage due to the way the community has treated me and the widespread misunderstanding of the entire situation


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:09:27
content:
  As long as Karel and Crypto are out of the picture, it should be 

  A CEO and dev team that actually cares about the game and its community


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:09:50
edit_date: 2023-09-22 04:11:20
content:
  Im hoping they both find some traction tbh. If they are sharing similar codebases that actually bodes super well for eventually maybe having a coalition to standardisé object representation.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:10:45
content:
  It's funny that NCR sponsored the development of FrooxEngine, and then Froox left and created another platform using FrooxEngine itself


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:10:51
content:
  Thats what I was hoping, I guess thats what Karel hopes as he's saying be believes in "multiple clients"


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:12:21
edit_date: 2023-09-22 04:13:37
content:
  and in the end we are treated like the problem when we actually liked our NCR as a feature and paid money to support the game


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:13:26
content:
  Wasn't NCR like a 1:1 ratio with a currency for a while though? 

  Then it became unstable when a lot of cryptobros came in and bought some


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:13:58
content:
  If you don't have much money in NCR, abandon it and don't look back 

  If you have a lot, fight Karel for your money back


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:14:08
content:
  It doesn't have to be. Object representation is a data structure. Basically if this is the case they would share assumptions on how to represent an object. Having two ecosystems that use similar object representations is not a bad thing at all if you want an end goal of being able to just grab an asset that will just work when imported.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:15:52
content:
  NCR was not a "Stablecoin". I guess you've been reading the drivel Geenz wrote about it that it should be dollar backed (as if they have thr money to run a reserve). NCR was set as a sliding scale to reward early funders.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:16:21
content:
  I haven't read anything about it, I literally just paid for a few months on patreon for more server storage space lmao


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:17:50
content:
  they can maybe view the same worlds abd objects but I dont know how inventory would work between the two. Who pays for storying player X's inventory? Neos or Resonite?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:19:52
content:
  Complicated

  Right now Neos is Neos 

  Resonite (most likely) will support the same format as an account backup conversion 
  But I heavily doubt they'll scrape the Neos servers for anything, so Resonite will be their own server structure 

  Neos to Resonite porting will just be those who downloaded their Neos account and uploaded it with a tool to Resonite 
  (Whether it be official or community made)


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:20:04
content:
  Oh I wasn't thinking full on federation, just standardizing the game engine representation. Like VRM, but with rich engine integration.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:21:32
content:
  I have a friend that looked at the data the Neos downloaded tool saved and was thinking on making a viewer for it, so it shouldn't be too hard to port over 

  It'll just probably be a manual process by users for legal reasons


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:22:30
content:
  (like how VRChat basically owns everything you upload, Karel/Neos may have or implement something like that)


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:28:38
content:
  Karel sees Neos as the Metaverse to end all Metaverses

  And to a degree he's not wrong, Neos did things other platforms couldn't come close to doing yet 

  But now it's just wishful thinking as he tries to form a development team that can recreate the magic spark that Neos was 

  And Resonite will live on with that spark with a team motivated to make the spark burn brighter


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:30:42
content:
  Neos will probably gain more of a team working for a paycheck, rather than the spark Froox and the team had


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:32:16
content:
  Perhaps this is the last time Frooxius and the old Neos team will kill off NCR. The final blow to end NCR's existence. Can Karel resurrect NCR or is it just a theatrical act to abandon everything? It's worrisome.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 04:47:10
content:
  Old neos team wanted out, and so they left. They did their due diligence of maintaining servers in the meantime and letting the community know they quit. How is that theatrical?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:07:53
content:
  The metaverse "hype" came after neos not before.

  The "Hype" actually was heavily detrimental to neos and all other projects that were actually metaverses.

  Mainly due to the heavy overuse and dilution of the term to the point where businesses called their own online stores "X Metaverse"

  The only upside was uninformed investors throwing absurd amounts of money at things they didnt understand


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:08:16
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:08:59
content:
  The only way NCRs death could have been avoided was by stifling the effects of greed. There was seemingly no attempt to do so.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:11:03
content:
  No the way would have been if two years ago the devs just said "look, NCR is a part of the game. We won't make it a focus of our game at all, but we won't betray those of you who funded us by removing it"


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:12:31
content:
  The only way it could have been avoided is having made it a stable coin in the first place so it would have been fit for a marketplace setting and not bound to speculartion


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:16:01
content:
  Or are you about to tell me that the value gets magiced out of thin air when the price can fluctuate?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:16:08
content:
  you guys understand that tether has massive reserved tat give it that value. And the whole fundraising scheme doesnt work if you offer no benefit to the funders. Right?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:18:32
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:19:04
content:
  The benefit was the software not Capitalistic gains

  Anyone just n it for short term profit is already not a good fit anyway


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:18:41
content:
  Your solution is for Neos to become a bank for no reason, to do fundraising that no one would want to fund... and that doesnt even fund the game or development at all... lol


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:21:54
content:
  its funding early hoping the game will aucceed so youll have more purchasing power when the game has stuff to buy and events to go to


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:22:47
content:
  if it was a pegged stabil coin, none of the money it raised would go to the devs. It would sit in a bank to keep the price pegged.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:23:37
content:
  just shut up. Its whatever you want it to be. Before it was like peanuts. We gave them to people as thanks. Or put it up as stakes in cardgames and stuff.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:24:38
content:
  This is why we do transaction fees as this way a % of the money transferred can go to supporting the system naturally.

  On top of this patreon didnt do 1:1 so still would benefit the devs


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:25:18
content:
  Increased potentially capitalistic gain is not a reason to build your currency contrary to its util. NCRs util was supposed to be market and interperson monetary exchanges, for this you need stability not speculation


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:25:44
content:
  then how would it be stabile? and why would anyone with a brain put money into it? and wpuld patreon be able to give it out when it costs them money?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:26:46
content:
  Why would anyone with a brain put money into something that could be worth 10 bucks, and then 30 cents a year later?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:27:54
content:
  why would they put money into something worth 30 cent and then 10 bucks later? Because they believed in Neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:28:50
content:
  Basically if NCR was a stable coin and you support on patreon for EX 50$
  and we assume a 50% conversion rate then youd get 25NCR and the team gets 25$ as raw funds (this is ignoring tax etc for simplicity )


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:29:23
content:
  that happened because froox's devs said they might remove NCR, and thr people holding it saw that and sensed danger.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:30:18
content:
  this makes no sense. So its like a rebate for patreon. And all the regulation needed to operate a bank which I doubt Patreon allows


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:31:27
content:
  Stable coins actually aren’t as heavily watched as non stable coins which is why meta didn’t go with speculative


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:32:13
content:
  This Is Not The Hype I Am Referring To And You Mistake The Efforts Meta Used For Their Metaverse Project As The Actual Building Market Captial For Metaverses And Metaverse Projects


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:33:06
content:
  but the reason you do a stabile coin is so you can operate a fractional reserve and then use those funds and buy a basket of financial products and try to profit off the difference... like what every bank does.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:34:22
content:
  NCR wouldnt work as a stabilcoin. First of all it just wouldn't even do the function of its birth: help fund Neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:34:46
content:
  The reason you use stable coins for a marketplace is because a speculative currency will derail the buying and selling of goods. It is actively deterimental design


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:35:08
content:
  NCR was set up just fine. There was no flaw in its implimentation. The only flaw is thst speculative asset is a dirty word to you. And that stems from your political beliefs.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:36:08
content:
  regular currencies arent pegged to anything either and as someone with family in argentina, I can tell you that fiat curencies are not actually stabile.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:37:22
content:
  and I use crypto all the damn time to purchase stuff despite its fluxuating value. For those of us who do its not difficult to navigate and has benefits.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:37:46
content:
  That’s a pretty cop out answer. What does the obvious implosion of speculative systems to do with politics and explain how a speculative baseline market currency isn’t a high risk implementation. I mean just imagine you buy grain and the next day grain is actually a lot less expensive , it turns commodity into stock forces, it’s not a good thing


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:38:06
content:
  well sure. I guess NCR is still more valuable than it was when I first got it. Not that I have much of it now.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:39:50
content:
  its not a copout answer, its just thst... this notion that you can "control" the value of everything is flawed.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:40:57
content:
  Works perfectly fine for other stable coins so please do explain why it wouldnt work here and how a speculatve baselne is better for a communities interpersonal trade


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:42:55
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:54:45
content:
  the fact is, NCR gives users thr freedom to determine its value themselves. thats how its SUPPOSED to be. Theres no authority saying what its value is, no oil, no threat of bloodshed... But thats not good to people who have grown up gaslit into thinking fiat is clean or who have never had to conduct purchases across boarders before.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:43:00
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:54:59
content:
  Its a complex issue, anyone claiming to be able to give you a simple answer is either lying or heavily polarized


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:44:56
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:55:14
content:
  This has nothing to do with Fiat or Crypto, this is purely about stable VS speculative.

  Youve also yet to explain WHY speculative is better other than vaguely doomsayng about authority and bloodshed

  What you tie it to in value is not relevant what matters is stability


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:45:58
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:55:25
content:
  the real pill people dont want to swallow is that in truth, crypto currencies are a more honest form of money. Their value is what someone is willing to pay for it. And thats NCR and there's nothing wrong eith that.

  The whole point of a currency for the metaverse is for it to not be tied to all this bullshit or any one government's currency or situation.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:47:31
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:48:17
content:
  Wait are you argung that currency itself should be a deregulated market of its own?

  Because at that point... we can just go back to trading goods for goods and cut out the middle man if theres no value we can agree on socially


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:47:59
content:
  you said it yourself, "no authority no stability". Authority is the opposite of what crypto is about.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:51:23
content:
  all currencies themselves ARE that. theyre markets and theyre traded against each other. And if a country doesn't produce trade, its currency falls accordingly, like if Neos is early and doesnt have many events, products, services to buy, NCR is priced low.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:52:40
edit_date: 2023-09-22 05:56:08
content:
  It's fine if you believe that but im coming more from a utilitarian viewpoint. 
   
  When i make a currency i want it to be best working for its purpose of exchanging goods for it, for this purpose it needs to have an agreed upon value, which ideally we can pin to something already agreed on thats relatively stable. 
   
  This way whent he baker sells bread and buys milk, that is a transaction that is mostly repeatable in value which is positive since people will roughly be able to know what is worth how much and agree what it should be traded for


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:53:02
content:
  I use crypto all the time to pay for legitimate things. My gf cant get hrt unless I pay for it that way.

  I think people here would rather me tell her sorry I think I'll be a simp for fiat currencies because ummm... theyre like. stabile for some reason lol


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:53:32
content:
  Yes currencies are that, but we generally universally agree instability is bad which is why we try to stabilize the value


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:55:44
content:
  its that everyone here's concept of mpney is that its this thing theyve never thought about enough before. For most of us its something that 'just werks'.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 05:55:54
content:
  Whatever is best fit for purpose I don’t care what exactly you pin it to, what matters is that it is something that is stable


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:00:08
content:
  We already discussed how using USDT wouldn't really work though. Atleast it sure as hell wouldn't fund Neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:00:51
content:
  yeah, its centralized and managed. Which is what everyone here seems to want: a centealized metaverse with many walled gardens


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:01:08
edit_date: 2023-09-22 06:01:16
content:
  And I’ve already mentioned you can still gain revenue through offering a stable coin through different means including fees and patreon


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:01:51
content:
  It’s ok if you prefer unregula
  Ting currency but claiming regulated variants are impossible is silly


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:02:53
content:
  No the idea is that you could freely transfer data between instances (different platforms) thanks to open standards


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:06:35
content:
  do you think LL would let you do that shit? For all the huffing Rosedale does about building a better metaverse, he would never give up cpntrol like that


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:08:15
content:
  and many Neos devs grew up on SL and can't fathom systems beyond it and really just want to be the next SL


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:11:07
content:
  sort of, in that Neos lets you self host but its still mostly centralized and their theory on how to run a Neos store was entirely just "lets do secondlife market"


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:15:00
content:
  ive listened to them plenty talk about it, but its clear there are no concrete plans, but it always seems to come back to this belief that SL's market is the height of ambition


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:16:29
content:
  its account system and also its development. If trying to get rid of one guy can kill a game then thats pretty damn centralized


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:21:10
content:
  Ive Never heard anyone claim that, SL is simply a decent baseline that clearly works and has stood the test of time, doesn’t mean it’s perfect doesn’t mean it couldn’t use further iteration, but it clearly it has good parts to pull from


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:28:40
content:
  even having multiple choices for a content host isnt decentralization really since your content is still centralized n that one CDN the only way to be truly decentralized is seeding the content yourself from local


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:30:20
content:
  What does a financing company have to do with this?

  I kid. Yeah possibility but would also require a ton of redundancy leading to heavy amounts of data space waste


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:33:33
content:
  thats just a basic prinicpal

  If  i send a picture of myself physically to 1 location if the location is destroyed its gone


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:37:50
content:
  The main issue is,  replication cant be on inf machines otherwise theres too much data, so you need to prioritize data, step 1 is to prioritize based on access, every unique access causes replication to occur adding a new node.

  This however also brings the issue of not everything being preserved as some nodes die before propagating


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 06:50:02
content:
  for neos thats not too bad, for all data in existence... I dont know if ipfs or similar is THAT cool that we need all of humanity on it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 07:03:45
content:
  It's also why im largely in favor of video game piracy since companies have proven they will make no effort to archive and make accisible their game data beyond point of sale


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 08:45:32
content:
  Karel and andrea generally operate around Czech buisness hours and most of the time check in around mid day


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 08:46:16
content:
  That said,  i dont really see what there is to say, theyve already seperated from the old neos team for a while now


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 11:00:17
content:
  It's generally preferred to have the IMUs with higher accuracy closer to the HMD since each SlimeVR tracker's accuracy is reliant on the ones above it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 11:02:55
content:
  If the IMU in the tracker on your foot is cheap then your foot will likely drift more, but if the one in your chest/hip tracker is cheap then your entire lower body will be less accurate


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 11:10:35
content:
  For most setups you should be able to reassign any tracker to any position on the body supported by the server software


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 12:12:35
content:
  Hello, Mr Karel! I would like to ask you, when the Neos Metaverse VR Software is shutdown, may I have the neos.com domain name? I think it is a cool domain name and be rest assured that I will put it to good use. I can kindly provide you with my e-mail address in a private message. Thank you and have a nice day sir!


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 13:27:42
content:
  Oh cool. Now that the trash has been removed from the neos discord can i get unbanned from there? Was never i valid reason given and i never broke tos or server rules.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:19:44
content:
  it used to be official but since Froox ran it after the split it was then unofficial since officially Karel is in charge now of Solirax and the Neos brand


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:21:22
content:
  hes basically trying to say that this here is MORE than what it WAS
  while we currently dont have anything


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:29:21
content:
  People are aware that situations change...right? The sun rises and sets. If at one point i say its a wonderful day...then someone quotes me in the middle of the night... "Actually...its night lol"  just sayin.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:30:00
content:
  Nothing has changed here just the wording, even if this empty platitude is true it is not applicable in this case


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:44:26
edit_date: 2023-09-22 14:44:39
content:
  However, I still think moderation failed in at least one case. Acting on fabricated evidence instead of being able to properly investigate


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:45:16
content:
  Idk bout that. I was asked for photograpic proof of wrongdoing. Gave such and was banned for providing it lol


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:46:49
edit_date: 2023-09-22 14:47:34
content:
  I'd normally give the benefit of the doubt but, this isnt the first time rabbit has gone off on this route, theyve done it again and again and its getting tiring when someone this clearly does not see their own issues, i mean hell man is in the very same breadth as complaining about being banned calling the entire dev team pedos.

  If youre gonna do this schtick you at least gotta be good at grabbing for sympathy


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:48:35
edit_date: 2023-09-22 14:49:00
content:
  not really, it's you coming here with this stuff. I wouldn't have said anything if it wasn't for trying to lie into this


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:50:53
edit_date: 2023-09-22 14:51:24
content:
  I've seen my fair share of wild stuff running and moderating different communities and this ones still one of the wilder ones. mainly because you just arent good at this game of acting like you were wronged, your vitriol is incedibly obvious and most people absolutely can immediately see through it but are too nice to say anything about it.

  No one is fooled by it why dont you just move on and do something productive with your existance other than whining about you messing up and getting yourself banned.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:52:57
content:
  Maybe that time should be spent in self-reflection, instead of using the demise of Neos to your advantage.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:53:17
edit_date: 2023-09-22 14:54:06
content:
  It's like "i was wrongfully banned and to prove it im going to constantly spread slandeerous accusations about people which shows how innocent i am and clearly makes me in any way likely to be ever unbanned"

  You know you messed up.
  You know you wont be unbanned.
  You just want to hurt those that rightfully sanctioned you.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:55:56
content:
  It would be a million times more effective if your grift was crying about freedom of speech, that is how transparent this is


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:57:24
edit_date: 2023-09-22 15:00:53
content:
  And heres also the thing, you ARENT hurting anyone else, no one is taking your diatribe seriously because they see through, you are only hurting YOURSELF.

  Anyone who could possibly be your friend or positively interact with you is going to be pushed away by your weird fixation.

  You are not doing yourself any favors


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 14:58:55
content:
  Actually this is a good place to leave this because anyone can just read your message history and see why thats just speaking for itself


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:00:50
edit_date: 2023-09-22 15:01:10
content:
  I mena beyond that its also incredibly obvious that all the nonce talk is just projection. It's a very clear hyperfixation


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:02:07
content:
  Y'all are heavily speaking in rhetorical questions and none of us currently have any abilities to change the current situation so you may as well just cease this circular dance of question marks


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:03:20
content:
  There's probably some services in your country that can assist your state.  I do suggest seeking them out as that is always the best option.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:03:33
content:
  Oh im just saying if anyone had real tangible proof of wrongdoing on my end...wouldnt i be in jail or something?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:04:43
content:
  afaik those wrongdoings are things that are only made into a case on request of those, who had been wronged


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:05:58
edit_date: 2023-09-22 15:12:42
content:
  Y'all just gotta accept they're gonna have the last word no matter what. Sometimes it's just not worth it to entertain them.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:06:17
content:
  Actually there has been proof, that you provided yourself to the moderation team and you've been banned. What's more proof needed than that?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:06:18
content:
  Im minorly certain that we wont be getting any message form andrea or karel today with how late it is, and staruday and sunday are unlikely too. hopefullly we'll have some info on monday


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:07:46
edit_date: 2023-09-22 15:13:11
content:
  Proof of a person grooming a minor in private worlds that resulted in a permanant public ban? Indeed that was proof i provided.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:08:31
content:
  Thom theres nothing gained just ignorre hes just going to drag this on repeating the same stuff ad infinitum, screaming into a void while nothing will ever change for him


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:18:34
content:
  You could have done a Ban appeal at the moderation site, instead you choose to constantly be public in here about it, which wont help at all.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:20:52
content:
  It just makes more people aware about what happened the more you start talking about it. It might be better to just move on and never talk about anything like that ever again


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 15:34:09
content:
  In other words you want me silenced or you will make sure to spread slander about me and attempt to follow me around online to ban me from anyplace you can thomas? Seems abit obsessive ^^ but you do you


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 16:30:49
content:
  Not the meltdown I came here for, but it was interesting, might run out of popcorn before Monday tho v.v


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 16:40:07
content:
  Used to live in a place that would sell everything but liquor on Sundays. Was super annoying. I figured last night we wouldn't be getting a response soon but booo


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 17:49:54
content:
  I mean, I'm just shocked at how long it is taking them to make their own official response. Last time didn't take that long


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 17:53:06
content:
  I think people that are asking for a response are more confused at a lack of acknowledgement that something happaned than a literal response, not sure what they should even respond to though since nothing really changed for karel


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 17:54:52
content:
  Even though apparently they were the "Unofficial Discord Official Unity Team," previoiusly being th eonly released client


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 17:55:43
content:
  Yeah but everything to be said has already been said, froox resigned, karel is doing hs own thing, YDMS is its own thing. Solirax is not involved


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 19:48:34
content:
  how long have you been involved in Neos? you don't gotta tell me but just curious what you know about the situation


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 19:50:27
content:
  I only joined since seeing latest trailer. I was then told Neos client info was in Discord, so then I went there and saw projects by other people, but also talks about some updates


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:04:39
content:
  Neos is split. Its history involves two people, its main dev and the guy who promoted and managed funding it... former friends. For years now they've no longer been friends. Its complicated, but one doesn't like/need the other now for various reasons.

  So Neos is split in an ugly way. And the details are too nuanced for a quick explanation. And when things are complicated people tend to get angry instead of understanding.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:13:40
content:
  So I guess it depends on what drew you to Neos and what you liked in the trailer. Did you want to hang out with mostly furries, or ingame scripting/building? Or were you drawn to crypto elements and the prospect of earning while playing?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:15:40
content:
  it seems like if you want to experiment with ingame crypto stuff like staking, earning, displaying nfts, shit like that, then maybe follow Karel and hope he delivers good things.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:15:55
content:
  Mostly crypto and building. I'm not very good at making things, but I don't mind hiring others to do things for me, so I fund mini projects. I remember hearing about Cooper's Planet in the past, but it went offline a long time ago, so hearing this was like a second chance to try it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:16:46
content:
  I saw the trailer, then googled Neos, and saw that it was functioning. I saw Youtube videos and realized this project was real


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:17:25
content:
  If you want to poke around with a mostly furry community and are inclined to poke around in Neos ingame scripting language and make those kinds of friends, maybe follow what Froox builds


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:21:18
edit_date: 2023-09-22 20:21:34
content:
  Froox with NEOS cared about his community and what he had created, this beautiful platform that allowed creative freedom. Karel since day one has been in it about the money. I see why Karel moved to telegram and ditched the discord, it's filled with all the crypto bros  that support him


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:21:51
content:
  Kind of the closest thing. I have nothing to sell. I mostly wanted to fund, spread wealth around, see things go up, then take out over time to keep balance.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:22:46
content:
  Froox's version (called Resonite now) is more to cater to people who hate crypto and are blockchain critics, "buttcoiners" whatever you want to call them


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:24:58
content:
  among most English speaking furries, crypto is a dirty word. It makes people angry. Froox's version of the game is not going to allow it because of that.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:26:18
edit_date: 2023-09-22 20:26:26
content:
  Like even now you just mentioning youre mostly intersted in experimenting with crypto in VR has branded you as a cryptobro. 

  That parrot took no time to indirectly call you as such.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:34:42
content:
  those answers probably are best. A game where you can be vored or shrunken down and play with stinky paws. Its basically furcadia 2.0 but often marketed like "spaceage tech only our genius savant creator could make" to outsiders


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 20:59:05
content:
  Yeah the poll didn't fit why I was on neos so I just answered a partially true meme answer. Lol it misses a ton.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:00:11
content:
  I was originally pulled in by some crypto Bros, but the engine was so much better than anything I was used to that I just really enjoy building stuff in it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:01:04
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:01:22
content:
  I mean yeah, but personally I was here because I saw someone streaming making a physics engine in logix.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:03:31
content:
  For me, I can't build, but I do enjoy what people have made. Yeah, I want NCR to do well, but if people made all that without it, I thought more it could do with some aid. I didn't know it wasn't really liked


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:03:32
content:
  Your knee jerk clap backs are not as witty as you think my guy, just makes you look silly.

  All walks of life are in Neos, like every work place, social hangout. Try not to get bent out of shape grasping at straws to insult people.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:04:28
content:
  shut up, you know its true. Neos features are partially driven by shit like being able to see your diaper expand in realtime or shrinking people down to swallow them


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:06:22
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:06:42
content:
  Lol if that's mostly what you're seeing maybe that's because it's what you're looking for... freedom is core to neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:06:45
content:
  Partially correct, allowing people to express themselves as long as it does not harm others and they are not imposing/harrassing on others is core to neos.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:07:28
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:08:01
content:
  I think the core is more so “freedom”. If fetishism was a “core” I figure we’d see MMC have very few entries. 
  And yet it has tons of entries that are, surprise surprise, not fetish related, showing a myriad of users simply enjoying the freedom of creation.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:07:48
content:
  Just because Neos allows people to express themselves doesnt mean its designed for the things people express


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:07:56
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:08:09
content:
  Yeah I remember the many times fetish content appears on the MMC, Or the Creator Jam, or the Metamovie, or the Nexulan streams. You’re out of your mind haha. You have no idea. What a small fraction of users do, does not designate the entire platform.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:08:27
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:08:45
content:
  Yeah, I've never seen that kind of thing spoken about in public, I think you're just trying to expose things from behind closed doors to devalue the opinions of the people you're arguing against.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:10:56
content:
  If those features are repurposed for other reasons that's great but I definitely believe many of the engine's features owe themselves to the fact furries like shrinking and vore. totally.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:12:29
content:
  Because i can think of how to make a system for that right now and it would be way too convoluted for the engine to be designed for it so if im missing some key feature here that would be interesting


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:13:17
content:
  ? The vore system has to be sought out. Not exactly a stock feature. People will use the engine for what they want


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:14:26
content:
  If you think the ‘feature’ of adjusting scale was added purely to accommodate vore then you are even more clueless than I thought.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:15:49
edit_date: 2023-09-22 21:18:36
content:
  Look, I'm just saying that deflationary currencies don't incentivize liquidity. A bit of planned inflation is not a bad thing! :3


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:19:01
content:
  If vore was a feature driver we'd have a full on eating system, but we don't. I really think you might have picked a poor example here bud


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:19:57
content:
  you are wrong of course, and anyway, who are you to judge what people do behind closed doors
  it does literally not affect you in anyway yet you choose to attack it


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:21:08
content:
  whats different that a neos features were made so i could make a car vs a group of consenting adults can do their thing? is any more important than the other in answering why a feature is added?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:23:05
content:
  I just said I believe part of Neos DNA is fetish and I think that hits alittle too close to home judgimg by the reaction


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:24:59
content:
  I'm pretty sure most social platforms are driven at least partially by that part of the human condition we call sex.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:25:33
content:
  It's not, it's just that when you give people freedom obviously that is one thing that a lot of people share regardless of who they are.

  Its just the inevitability of a free system


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:26:41
content:
  Royal we. And honestly no I'm not edgy I'm just tired of watching you try to claim it's built for something when you have no clue.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:28:07
content:
  Especially by using insults and shame, like c'mon if you're going to argue a point have evidence don't just try to dehumanize the ops.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:29:40
content:
  It's kinda uncomfortable to watch people just sort of talk past eachother on a tonal misunderstanding in a text chat. Like, do I point that out? Does pointing it out just give more fuel to the argument?


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:30:35
content:
  I think its neccessary for any VR world to be compelling. If SL didn't have sex, I think it would have been a blip. Maybe the internet itself would have degeloped more slowly. It seems to me like the cycle is: nerds create something new and fascinating. Then people come in and use it for sex and money, and then that dies off abit and the enthusiests stay and build out its potential ^^ 

  honestly I would go abit futher, and I go back snd forth on this, but I sometimes believe violence is neccessary too, in a way. For a metaverse to be compelling. I don't know if a world wothout risks is really able to feel real in the long term. Like it just devolves into a world without meaning


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:32:23
content:
  I didnt shame anyone dummy. maybe you took it too personally and need to have your diaper changed and a nap


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:33:21
content:
  No lie, the first time I heard of SL was on a documentary (I think it was on G-4?) about Teledildonics. They were using the Rez trance vibrator with some user scripting IIRC. I ended up poking around on the platform for a couple hours after that.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:33:45
content:
  Yea not wrong, there's this weird thing with any new tech that humans almost immediately use it to make dicks


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:35:40
content:
  I found it amazingly funny that the documentary was presenting it as this new dimension of computer mediated interaction and it was litterally a PS2 accessory for a niche rythem game.


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 21:36:44
content:
  we just parked the Warthog somewhere, jumped on the gun turrent and held the button down... not as refined but it worked xD


type: message
date: 2023-09-22 23:28:42
content:
  Karel hasn't said a word to the community in the weirdness, but he does have time to hit the like button on Twitter.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 02:18:30
edit_date: 2023-09-23 02:21:11
content:
  Hi everyone, in case people forgot, this a a channel for Neos Credits and Neos Metaverse discussions.
  If you wish to talk about other alternative platforms and clients as a reference or something that leads to constructive debate it is perfectly fine and encouraged however promoting it is not.

  Nor is FUD and spreading negativity about NCR and Neos all together. We have that clearly stated in the chat rules so please give it another read if needed. Neos Telegram - Neos Wiki

  For those who wish to discuss Resonite it looks like there is a dedicated Discord server so please do it there.
  Nothing has changed for us so we don’t particularly see the need to comment on anything. I genuinely wish much luck to anyone who is trying build something so challenging such a new platform. 

  We carry on as stated in our last update and getting on with preparations of staking, UI iterations and with our mission of supporting development of multiple Neos clients. Such as but not limited to Unreal client. 

  Thank you so much for your cooperation with keeping this discussion civil and informative. 
  I’m looking forward to receiving lot of “positive” emojis.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 03:58:00
content:
  Frooxius and the team successfully escaped Neos without any legal issues. The features of Resonite are similar to NeosVR, with logicX being equivalent to ProtoFlux. They are virtually identical, with only a rebranding of the brand name and features.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 04:59:39
content:
  Will we ever get any idea of how the negotiations went between the two of them and what all that looked like?

  Like what was offered, what was asked for?


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 05:05:20
content:
  Naw, we can talk about on topic issues here :) sorry that you weren't able to "transform" into a mod here :)


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 05:20:01
content:
  If any information about it is found, I'm also curious. I'd rather not bother the CEO and COO, who are most likely very busy.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 05:20:57
content:
  Anyone who did leak that information would be both foolish and risk legal ramifications, so I'd advise against that. That's all.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 06:09:09
content:
  They had a plan to erase the stains on the Neos project. Wiping away all traces to avoid legal issues with NCR investors. NCR holders, Neos Credits investors are feeling lost and deeply disappointed.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 07:13:47
edit_date: 2023-09-23 07:16:14
content:
  No negotiations just a guy who sabotaged his own company because he thought he can do better on his own. Good luck, we’ll see how it goes.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 08:00:17
content:
  Like, it's been implied by them that negotiations happened. Or did they just never take off in the first place for some reason?


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 08:04:12
content:
  Well I'll hand it to them, that they've successfully rewritten history and washed their hands of the people they needlessly hurt.


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 08:06:46
content:
  But to add onto that they've added insult to it by implying the NCR funders were the problem. And better yet for them if any of those hurt people want to say "hey, actually we were dragged down into this against our will and betrayed" the greater part of the community will just be like "lol get fcked cryptobro"


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 08:14:12
edit_date: 2023-09-23 08:16:04
content:
  I honestly kind of just wish those devs would have ever acknowledged the other side instead of getting drunk on hubris and praise for switching face against their funders


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 08:44:30
content:
  That is actually relevant to Neos Foundation, as the people listed on the Neos Wiki actually seem to distance from Neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 11:14:05
content:
  yeah here you mention it's unofficial. seems like it would be better to just make one fresh anyways rather than trying to convert the unofficial one


type: message
date: 2023-09-23 13:05:23
content:
  Honestly, I am looking forward to seeing what happens next for Neos. It has a lot of great content on it.


type: message
date: 2023-09-24 03:27:58
content:
  I'm going to have to look into it then, realizing now tho that I didn't get this months minting bonus. @malooniac I can no longer see my balance in game however there's no message from the neos bot saying anything about receiving this months minting bonus. Can I please get that looked into.


type: message
date: 2023-09-24 04:55:13
content:
  I'm hoping they get the backend stuff fixed soon. I don't like having to reach out to get things fixed


type: message
date: 2023-09-25 08:47:01
content:
  Hello😊For the NCR balances in-game, is was already mentioned with the last update that this will be primarily handled through the website. At least for now as NeosVR unfortunatelly doesn’t work the same way. But this functionality will be definitelly included in new Neos clients. 

  This doesn’t change rewarding Patreon benefits. We are just implementing a better system (pretty much ready at this point) for automated reward tracking and cloud storage buying. Patreons will be given their respective NCR including these for the past few months. 

  I understand that is has been frustrating for people who got stuck on storage space despite of being Patreon subscribers but we have reviewed every individual case, you just need to let us know and we always aim to make corrections as fast as possible.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 16:19:47
content:
  I mean I just tried to login to Neos and got a "Database corruption" error, and restarted to it not wanting to function properly. Was taking a while trying to "Extract from database directly"


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 16:58:52
content:
  When I click log in, the top is a blue logging in for a few minutes before turning white and doing nothing


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:13:08
content:
  The userSession endpoint is responding with error 500 Internal Server Error, and Error 429 API calls quota exceeded! maximum admitted 1 per 1s.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:35:29
content:
  I don't think it's a service issue because it's still up, I'm connected currently. I just logged in like 5 minutes ago. I could see an endpoint issue tho


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:36:32
content:
  But whatever the cause, the effect is the same. I attempted to log in for about 30 minutes and was unable to.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:37:05
content:
  You might have been lucky and your authentication went through, but I wouldn't recommend closing Neos because the same user session endpoint is used to refresh your token.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:37:53
content:
  I'm not the only one, there are posts on the unofficial Neos Discord and some users on other discords as well reporting the same problem.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:40:10
content:
  Yeah, other endpoints are working like the world session query and assets seem to be returning good results.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 17:41:55
content:
  No fud but they could really benefit from a team member with a US time zone. I feel like resolving anything inhere takes way longer because we're playing message tag.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:43:27
content:
  I think I might know what is going on. (Done some digging, i can't lie.)

  My UserID is U-Klaxus, That comes with an Error 500 on the API, logged into account.neos.com
  My Headless is U-Laniakea, That comes with no issues, Never logged into account.neos.com.

  Do you see the correlation there?


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:45:22
content:
  I'm wondering if it's not part of the database gone offline or something. I noticed that a lot of the accounts that are being affected seem to be earlier users, I'm pretty sure your headless came after your main account correct?


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:49:34
content:
  I can login to website and Neos now but In Neos NCR says 0 website show the 30 i should have but also does not let me add storage button is greyed out.


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:50:58
content:
  If the database was spread across multiple servers or multiple pieces it would make sense that maybe the beginning part of the database went down since a lot of us newer users are still able to access our accounts


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:51:33
content:
  Might be Resonite logging in as you and doing a data transfer for Resonite and the server says nah this user is using max data no more to them for now?


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:52:21
content:
  No I don't think it has anything to do with the resonite honestly bc many of the affected users haven't made it over yet


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 19:58:06
content:
  I plan to stay on Neos, but friend said they aren't part of beta for other project. They said account was also older (2019?). Mine was... 2021?


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 20:06:00
content:
  It was indeed.

  U-Klaxus: "registrationDate": "2020-12-08T17:12:23.0741205Z"
  U-Laniakea: "registrationDate": "2022-08-18T19:14:59.6665625Z"


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 20:10:13
content:
  Friend pointed out their info:
  U-Le-Voyant: "registrationDate":"2021-12-23T04:05:37.2443974Z"

  But friend said their account was "2019-03-26T14:41:37.1014792Z"


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 20:16:35
content:
  That's assuming that the database actually keeps them in temporal order instead of like some sort of other order


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 20:42:29
content:
  Friend has been making things for 4 years, and even more prior to joining Neos. I'd type what they say, but it'd be 90% censored


type: message
date: 2023-09-26 21:35:10
content:
  Yo I can't login to my account (neosvr client and neos.com neither)
  My log said "Login Error: InternalServerError"
  What's happening?


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 00:28:28
content:
  Is this Rose person here in the channel? I'm getting telegram called by them and this is the only group I've spoke in recently.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 00:37:56
content:
  Yup, I was one of them and I'm now 2002% over my 1GB. So tonight I'm going to grab a snack and start deleting.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 01:41:57
content:
  I had some storage as a MMC prize but it has been reset to 1GB.
  Hopefully MMC storage will be restored...


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 02:08:48
content:
  Fun competition for creators of various team sizes and rewards that were previously done via ncr, cdft, and permanent storage along with in- game badges


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 02:11:38
content:
  Karel making moves without thinking about the consequences? Again? It's like he's trying to kill any good will the community has.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 03:06:45
content:
  Good morning, it’s very understandable that you are experiencing a bit of panic right right now but please don’t worry. 
  No account are “lost”. We are implementing quite a complex new system for managing your Patreon and Neos Cloud storage and unfortunately glitches do happen. 

  The team has been working on fixes the whole night. Soon it should be all in order but we will be “on alert” in case some of your accounts still don’t play the ball.
  We apologise that it wasn’t as elegant as intended and we are very grateful for pointing it out fast so it could be made right straight away. The good news is that from now on it should be much better.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 03:07:09
content:
  As for the storage, if you have purchased extra storage, received MMC storage prize, or if you are currently a Patreon subscriber of course you will receive your full storage allowance. 

  Please let us know if you think your balance is not right, and we will address that asap.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 03:39:49
edit_date: 2023-09-27 03:40:14
content:
  I think actually informing users changes are being done and issues may arise would of been a good idea


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 05:52:00
edit_date: 2023-09-27 05:52:19
content:
  but since its these targetted individuals its instead a good opportunity to be patronizing and act exaggerated


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 06:37:16
content:
  Most places announce maintenance ahead of time, it is good practice.

  It's bare minimum ESPECIALLY when dealing with finances


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 09:49:15
content:
  Idk if it's exaggerating, this issue coupled with the nonfunctional API for purchasing storage has made the game literally unplayable for a sizable chunk of the community. I don't think it's out of line to mention that most companies mention scheduled outages and planned maintenance, especially when it comes to finance related things.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 10:27:52
content:
  It's quite convenient that one cannot buy storage with NCR, so they would have to subscribe to Patreon to get storage increase


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 11:14:20
content:
  There is absolutely no malicious intention whatsoever. The simple reality is that a day consists of only 24 hours, and in order to ensure the development process is managed effectively and things get done, tasks must be spread out across different stages. This is a normal and necessary part of the process so that we can accomplish our goals. We will be enabling the NCR storage purchasing in the next stage.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 11:14:54
content:
  We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, but I want to emphasize that we took immediate action to fix it as soon as it was brought to our attention and no storage dissapeared permanently. We have been responsive to those who reached out to us via email and have made the necessary corrections where applicable.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 11:15:36
content:
  Just an announcement before maintenance occurred would have alleviated many concerns around the api being down.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:06:19
content:
  Well at least they're actually saying something. 
  There's other platforms can't be arsed telling you anything.


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:14:07
content:
  This group is about Neos. Like to put the obvious comparison aside for a minute (which I had been vocal about in the appropriate place) , I've had issues with things like discord where they break something and might tell you after or you find a bug they might say "oh cool" on a good day. 

  In many places it feels like I'm talking to a wall and at least neos is actually saying something. People in neos yesterday were asking about why they couldn't log in with various claims thrown around. I just checked the telegram and saw the post from Andrea and read it out to people in Neos which seemed to help calm them down at least


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:15:44
content:
  So far whenever theres been a discord outage we've received updates for it on the status tracker in a timely manner


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:16:32
content:
  That's API outages, i used to make discord bots and things could get quite confusing in that scene with little information actually given


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:17:58
content:
  ive been running my own discord bots since about 2016 and never had an outage for it that wasnt timely listed on the status page or resolved


type: message
date: 2023-09-27 13:19:47
content:
  I'm not just talking API outages but okay. 
  They were very slow to talk about webhooks being able to use emojis if you include a user token in the post json. Eventually once a certain bot got big enough did they actually make a comment other then "eh, maybe I guess, I dunno"


type: message
date: 2023-09-28 00:26:05
content:
  Most platforms aren't also seemingly teetering on multiple kinds of collapse at the same time, though. The servers have been breaking intermittently increasingly often, and most of the community has no faith in the people that running things now, and haven't for a while.


type: message
date: 2023-09-28 19:36:42
content:
  lizard man hosted meta connect i think yesterday
  was reading live comments and people were unimpressed
  q3 is interesting i guess, then he spent the other half talking about ai and how anyone will be able to use it


type: message
date: 2023-09-28 19:46:47
content:
  Saw this during thrills meta stream
  https://clips.twitch.tv/KindBlitheArmadilloPanicBasket-BMtXcqTjp3BLkOED


type: message
date: 2023-09-28 22:43:56
content:
  Ok but like how is getting investigated because you ommitted from board members that you are building a secret glass house in texas not entertaining to watch


type: message
date: 2023-09-28 22:46:39
content:
  I love that "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" somehow became a common saying for those types


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 12:53:40
content:
  For those that may not be aware, a critical vulnerability was recently  identified in the libwebp library which impacts Neos (via the FreeImage library). Until Neos is receives a security update, a patched DLL has been compiled by a member of the community and has been shared in the Creator Jam Discord here: https://discord.com/channels/588096622538522635/793588200479129630/1157657916027981864


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 18:01:10
content:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/311691674130710528/1157737926529134602/Freeimage.dll

  Here's a dl link to a fixed DLL for the freeimage lib


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 20:29:24
content:
  Hi Andrea, I have a friend who's storage is only showing up as 1GB rather than 50GB. You said to let you know, but where shall I direct them to notify you / the team?


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 21:18:27
content:
  Karel When will you provide a fix for the vulnerability provided above? Seems serious enough to warrant an emergency patch to the unity client (the one everyone is using)


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 21:36:56
edit_date: 2023-09-30 21:37:27
content:
  There are a couple other locations you can find it and will need to replace in. The below directories are for the Steam build:
   Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
   Tools
   Tools\AdminX
   Tools\Minecraft2Neos


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 21:55:21
content:
  My apologies for the delay. You can find it also in the announcement via the Neos discord. https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/793605541237882890/1157657942217199657


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 22:00:22
content:
  There are multiple FreeImage.dlls with the vulnerability located in each Neos install, it's best to ensure that all copies are replaced to be on the safe side.


type: message
date: 2023-09-30 22:12:44
content:
  someone listed the other directories and the path is correct, we CAN expect people to navigate through a folder with just 1 folder in it and nothing else


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 07:19:21
content:
  It is not about the whole dev team leaving. Just the dev team leaving wouldn't cause the Patreon to drop


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 07:24:21
content:
  It is that community you just hate, because they don't like crypto. They are leaving, finally. However, they were also the ones supporting a lot through Patreon as it seems now.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 07:37:14
content:
  It is funny, but if you welcome furries, no matter where, you also welcome wealth.
  This also happens with furry conventions. The hotels and many of the businesses in town notice a big income whenever a larger furry convention is happening.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 07:38:18
content:
  This can even be as relevant as when you just opened a business and got a loan and there just happens to be a big furry con next weekend, you can pay off your debt next week


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 07:53:17
content:
  This also works the other way around. Becoming too greedy and wanting even more can have furries and their convention to leave the city and go somewhere else, where they are welcome


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 08:15:27
content:
  It probably doesn't help that a significant portion of the userbase is LGBTQIA and Solarix just moved their incorporation to the UAE.

  I know that was a signifigent factor in my decision to pull my Patreon support.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 09:41:16
content:
  I understand that what I am about to say might not get me a lot of popularity but it's important that people understand that relying purely on Patreon cannot facilitate the level of growth we want to achieve for Neos.

  While we truly appreciate the amazing support we receive from our Patreon community, it's natural that some individuals might choose to invest their hard earned income in platforms that better align with their interests. 
  There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

  The furry community is wonderful and I find it beautiful that we can live in the world where people can explore their identity in so many different ways.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 09:41:27
content:
  However, it's a reality that the furry community also represents a very niche market. 
  To achieve substantial growth we need to think on a much larger scale. 
  We are dedicating significant time and effort to shape the direction of Neos Metaverse right now.
  We have started with web UI, better NCR management, cloud is still work in progress but it won’t be long before you will be able to buy storage with NCR again. We have fun concept of gamified staking on the way and most of all we maintain interoperable vision for future Neos clients. This is just the beginning.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 09:41:47
content:
  The Neos Foundation aims to encourage the development of the whole Neos ecosystem and encourage open-source initiatives, attracting a diverse range of users. It is not here to take control away from people and instal some weird censorship. 

  I acknowledge that change can be unsettling, especially when it involves stepping out into unfamiliar waters.
  However, to transform Neos into the most universal platform for creators, educators, and those who just want to have fun we must expand beyond the furry community or hardcore VR enthusiasts. It needs to be much more seamless experience. Think of Apple. Nobody buys into Apple ecosystem because they want more customisation and configuration. Brand name aside, it is simple and it’s stable.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 10:19:09
content:
  Except expansion should not mean exclusion which is what you seem to be implying by dismissing this "niche" community (who were in fact, the main source of your total income). Let's not even make this about furries though - they just happened to be a majority due to the creative freedom Neos offers. You had a wonderful player base but are instead choosing to cater to... who? You've actively chosen the path of most resistance at every turn, failed to inform your community when large, potentially scary events were happening, and have effectively rousted any major player who even slightly cared. Over and over, concerns and questions have been raised from the community only to be met with the hammer of "FUD" because their sentiment was critical. You've locked this place down to be a place of fabricated positivity so much so that you can't even see that your entire support structure has left the building. Precious few people are playing neos at this point, let alone supporting it.

  You should've ACTUALLY listened to your main supporter base instead of banning them for disagreeing with your direction.

  If a project can't weather criticism, then what merit does it stand on? If you can't listen when the community screams at you and storms out the door, why should they listen to anything else after that?

  This is not FUD, this is a retrospective criticism of your guys' actions thus far. If you can't rise and actually speak on the matter and instead remove me for bringing up an inconvenient topic, then what more needs to be said to prove the point?

  How could you do this to the community...?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:26:48
content:
  Heya, have there been any updates to thr game about the security breach? This a massive concern and its weird it's been 3days without any update to the libwebp vulnerability.

  I would strongly recommend that this needs to be addressed asap. .---.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:27:36
content:
  they are not technically responsible for the unity build
  if you want to continue using the unity client, someone posted a fix further up


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:32:49
content:
  People underestimate furries and I'm a bit disappointed, that it seems to happen here as well. Furries have a significant representation in places that are defined through success. Where ever a company is very successful, there is at least one furry involved at a seemingly insignificant position, but in reality be a foundation, where the company wouldn't exist without


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:34:17
edit_date: 2023-10-02 12:40:01
content:
  Also, I am one example of that one furry that makes a company successful. This company I work for, wouldn't exist like it does, if I wouldn't work here


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:35:44
content:
  Well I feel like taking the unity version of the game down on steam untill a patch can be officially made feels like the right thing to do then?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:37:28
edit_date: 2023-10-02 12:39:05
content:
  The Neos community has always embraced people from everywhere, not just furries. We're very happy to co-exist with everyone. As long as they are not going against us or trying to exploit us.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:39:31
content:
  I'm confused. First time I try client, some fox shows me controls and answer questions. I say I trying to find stake, and gives me hat that says its wizard time and I blew up. Was weird.

  Hopefully security issue fixed soon. Want more stake, less hats.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:42:54
content:
  As NCR functionality has been disabled on the back end for the Unity client, it looks like there will be new clients


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:44:21
content:
  Well in that case i would actually recomend to report the Unity neos client on steamvr for vulnerability
  if the Owners of Neos are Unable or Unwilling to patch thier game?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 12:48:23
content:
  The fix is easy and it looks like the former dev team is even willing to give this fix away for free


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 13:33:11
content:
  I think there's a reason, however if it's that reason, we will never hear about it, nor will we ever get it confirmed or denied


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 13:47:36
edit_date: 2023-10-02 13:48:03
content:
  Steam account and the code of NeosVR was never handed over as it should have. This client is thus independent and this unfortunate matter should be discussed on its Discord not here. I think it’s now beyond clear that this blackmail/strike however you want to call it is not working and both the code and account should be finally handed over. All this is doing is harming users.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:34:50
content:
  Steam do have a help line. Have you tried talking to them about account recovery? 

  Surely there's something there like sending a confirmation letter to the address registered with the steam account or something.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:40:05
content:
  Honestly I don't understand how at least both don't have the code. Even if neos went through a reimagining, tossing out all old systems, then surely at least the steam account the game is published under.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:43:40
content:
  I think he meant this as a strike against neos, like a dig at neos to knock it down, not as a labour strike


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:53:57
content:
  Karel @malooniac Can you confirm if the Neos LNL relay is down again? No-one can connect to sessions now unless they're accessing sessions via Steam Networking Sockets instead, which most Linux headless servers won't be.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:55:18
content:
  Karel's earlier statement implies he (and thus the new "team") don't have access to the Neos source code, so it doesn't sound like they can.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:57:22
content:
  A session orb might work too. Maker jam didn't show for me yesterday and someone had to spawn an orb for me to enter


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:57:49
content:
  Session orb won't work either as that still has to use LNL unless you modify it to direct connect via IP.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:58:07
content:
  The issue is getting to the people before hand (or getting something to them) and they are both new to Neos and VR in general.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 14:58:38
content:
  Just trying to iron out the cleanest process to get them into the session that they can't join in the normal way.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 15:32:45
content:
  As Solirax is the publisher on Steam, can't you just recover access to that account through support?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 16:50:52
content:
  I have no idea how Steam handles it, "Publisher Solirax, developer: Frooxius"

  Soliras is probably a company account, while Frooxius is clearly a private one.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:05:52
content:
  Thank you, I've been trying to say all this the whole time. It's absolutely shameful and completely embarrassing how they've always handled criticism.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:21:47
edit_date: 2023-10-02 19:22:26
content:
  I don't think Karel understands what separation is. Unless there was a written agreement, Frooxius is not required to release his source code. Didn't he say that he would *consider* it? Expecting him to do it out of the kindness of his heart after the way Karel treated him and the team is beyond absurd.

  Slandering someone by saying they're blackmailing, is absolutely uncalled for as well. What are they even trying to get from you? Blackmail doesn't even work that way. Blackmailing is often used as a tool used to extract something or prevent something from getting out, not just harm people for the sake of harming them. Do you really think that anyone who jumped ship is afraid of competition?

  Besides, who in their right mind would be willing to help someone who keeps blaming them for their own downfalls?

  Chances are I'll be banned from here after this since it doesn't mesh with what Karel believes. He very obviously feels entitled to something that isn't his. If you wanna complain about FUD, why not fix the attitude that causes it in the first place? (Your own.)

  If you want your company to succeed, stop blaming others for things that don't go your way, and make do with what you have available to you. The past is in the past and won't change. Make a new future for yourself instead of getting mad that your raft isn't a cruise liner already. It sucks to start over, but the sooner you deal with it, the better. Face forward, not backward and things will be fine.

  If calling him out like this gets me banned, see ya, it was interesting to keep up with things here while it lasted. Figured I'd try to provide some criticism that explains things rather than saying "person bad" and leaving it at that. Hope things get better for Karel once he cleans things up. Peace ✌️


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:41:25
content:
  why the /blackmail/strike? whats the blackmail part? Is the blackmail "hey i will launch my own platform if you dont take ncr down?"
  Strike against neos how?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:43:45
content:
  the webp doesnt just effect neos, it effects all chromued based engines and websites. so there is no "strike" against neos?
  and the patch was released, for free, from froox him self, for the goodess of his heart, all the Curent devs have to do is patch it in


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:45:42
content:
  It's open source:
  https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

  And the license allows it: 
  https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage/blob/main/license-fi.txt


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:46:59
content:
  Pretty sure 'current devs' is an empty list. But that's just speculation. I mean why not update the sites client at least.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:47:10
content:
  I didn't say it was blackmail, that was karels claim. 

  I was just giving my interpretation of how Karel meant his use of the word "strike" was to be taken


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:49:32
content:
  oh I see. I'm not sure. I'm guessing he's referring to them not fixing it on steams side because they are the ones with the access and they know the issue exsits. 
  Or maybe it's some misunderstanding I'm not seeing


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:51:26
content:
  As we were not sure if Neos would release a patch, this is why we took the initiative to compile and release it, as the binaries in Resonite are a product of Resonite, we compiled and released our own separately according to the license. Creator Jam is currently still hosting events on Neos and wanted our participants and others who are still using Neos to be protected.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:51:45
content:
  As for Neos releasing, I have no idea but I assumed it wasn't going to happen before Sunday's Creator Jam.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:52:39
content:
  The application is aviable on the neos website, Karel and thier devs could fix the vulnerability on that client if steam is the issue


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:53:04
content:
  Scantf  made a point earlier about the neos metaverse being separate from neosvr and I think that's the biggest thing here, as far as they're concerned the metaverse is running fine why bother.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:53:26
content:
  It made sense since browsers would be the largest vector of attack that they would be patched first before the libwebp CVEs were made public.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:53:33
content:
  They don't have any non-unity client released yet though? Unity client is essentially dead at this point?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:53:57
content:
  ... there is an explixit vulnerability that makes so hackers can access your computer if you are using the program


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:54:14
content:
  Technically, you wouldn't need code access to patch the FreeImage.dll - it's a matter of updating the distribution on Steam and repackaging the 7z archive of the Neos standalone.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:55:43
content:
  I honestly haven't checked, have you verified launching the Neos standalone launcher (the blue one) doesn't pull down an update?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:55:50
content:
  Well aware, please don't think I'm defending them, it effects Neosvr  I think they're more concerned with the metaverse side


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:55:57
content:
  Gotcha. Basically they should keep their attention in their own court instead of trying to get someone else to fix it when it's not their job


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:56:16
content:
  What is downloaded from Neos.com does not contain the game, it's a downloader/launcher so it fetches the game from a repository.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 19:58:19
content:
  to my understanding, the abuse of the vulnerability would need to be written to work from neos and people making things which abuse said vulnerability are likely too busy making things to target old versions of firefox and chromium for people using old versions of windows which are unsupported by the newer versions of said web browsers. 

  Still a possibility that someone could abuse the vulnerability, someone has been abusing another hole in the engine to hide themselves and mess with people


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:00:21
content:
  its... two lines of code, the patch is free, just slap it in there, why risk the possibility of an attack?


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:01:28
content:
  It's 'cause the dev team is so hard at work on the non-unity client that they can't spare the minutes


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:02:03
content:
  yes but I'm just pointing out that while it's unlikely there is someone could so maybe it's worth changing out the DLL


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:02:18
content:
  If he cant fix it, Then its better to close the download link down, so people arent voulnerable for an attack that will litterly melt thier computer and burn thier home 🅱️


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:04:49
content:
  This kind of situation is exactly why I think it should be open source tho, we could have patched this as soon as the vulnerability was discovered


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:05:08
content:
  Oh, side note; What causes the most FUD for this kind of product? Anyone wanna guess?
  Lack of transparency.


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:08:06
edit_date: 2023-10-02 20:08:59
content:
  i recomend evryone buying ncr right now, this might be a no mans sky situation where the devs where quiet for 5 months before launching something huge


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 20:10:00
content:
  We've seen no updates for a year and change and not so much as an introductory post to meet the new team


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 22:18:19
content:
  I dont get why people think a previous developer should return to do a patch of a software they are no longer working on


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 22:22:45
content:
  Yeah they could at least push a fixed DLL to the standalone download snce its not like this fix even requires access to the source code


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 22:33:02
content:
  It's not open source we're saying it should be. And likely because they've not figured out staking integration yet /shrug


type: message
date: 2023-10-02 22:43:36
content:
  We can take advantage of CVE-2023-5129 to establish a privileged session and replace the affected dll :D


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 12:03:40
content:
  Reading The Past Chat Is Very Interesting It Would Appear Neos Has No Leg To Stand On Legally For The Source And That New Devs Are A Fabrication


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 13:33:15
content:
  So like theres people anticipating an update with no devs and if there are devs rhey dont have the source code for the game their working on?


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 13:35:35
content:
  I feel like issuing a patch for a massive security vulnerability would be a huge step towards securing credibility


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 13:55:20
content:
  Well I mean if the company folds because thr game it is supported by collapses there arent gonna be nfts for much longer lmao


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 21:27:40
content:
  Well the sounds of things It is supposed to be Carol but She he it anyways seems like they don't have a copy of it so this is what I'm thinking has happened 

  Oh let's go together and teamwork A awesome metaverse  YAAAY High fives all around 
  Three to five years later 

  So You wanna add cryptocurrency to this place ... sigh fine But I don't like this 

  Oh ship a huge explosion in users because crypto bros and money 

  We need to take this farther clearly says Carol . Other Co something . NO 
  Thus was born the issue between the two And we have no more updates until emergency updates . It's like round one fight 
  The rest steps in to break it up then we go our separate ways . One saying money money money and we could use a different engine. Oh this should mingle with you unity quite well right ?????? Right ... To be continued on that front 
  I have gotten bored the rest of the story is obvious


type: message
date: 2023-10-03 22:53:55
content:
  The one at the "download now" button located at:
  https://assets.neos.com/install/NeosPublicSetup.exe


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 05:13:08
content:
  You guys are aware this issue can be solved without the source code right? Even if karel doesn't have access to thr steam account, they still have access to the repo and can implement the fix there. Even the webclient on neos website have this vulnerability.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 05:28:21
content:
  WARNING, the webpage "https://neos.com/" suffer from a webp libvpx vulnerability aswell! 
  whoever is running the website code must update thier servers or risk hackers getting acces to the website


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 06:30:35
content:
  i already msgd  them yesterday, but since this issue havent been adressed for 24hours im giving out a public warning aswell


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 06:43:21
content:
  (Admittedly we're curious about this; have there been any vendor advisories for the web server applications on this? Haven't seen any personally.)


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 15:52:38
content:
  Not... sure that's true at all. It's using IIS if I remember correctly which I don't believe ever even interfaces with LibVPX.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 17:19:37
content:
  The browser used to see the website is the thing that needs updating, not the website 🤦‍♀ It was a vulnerability in chrome, not webpages


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 17:34:53
edit_date: 2023-10-04 17:35:02
content:
  The server, wich have an old libvpx software., have this issue. I don't wanna go into full detail how to do the exploit, but it's possible to a bunch of nasty things


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 17:39:07
content:
  So you're saying that the webhost, is the provider of the libvpx dll? Or are you saying that the game files need updating? Because whatever website you visit doesn't matter if the browser's dll on your own pc is up to date.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 17:40:23
content:
  You can update the files on your own but if you’re new to Neos and you download from the website you’ll get the vulnerable files


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 17:41:22
content:
  Okay, then the proper words need to be used while mentioning it, the server needs the files updated for the game, not just the server or the webpage


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:10:47
content:
  The server still has the vulnerability is what I think they're saying. Which means a malicious user could somehow trigger it and gain access. The server doesn't use that dll to host you're correct but the server still uses that dll itself.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:12:29
content:
  Is the server itself opening the files and parsing them? Or is the server just passing the file over for your system to read and parse?


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:14:07
content:
  I'm not trying to get into details of the exploit but afaik they'd have to direct the host to a site or file but if that's possible they'd have access.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:16:42
content:
  From what I understand of the exploit, is that if your browser is using the old version of the dll, and you load an infected webp, it will load the image as normal, and once it hits the malicious part, it causes the dll to crash in a way that it allows unsigned code to run. This is only possible when OPENING an infected file.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:17:40
content:
  Websites are often not doing anything in the background other than just serving files, and managing back end stuff


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:18:32
edit_date: 2023-10-04 18:18:46
content:
  The only way a server would be hacked via this method is if a server owner OPENED the infected file using the server


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:20:08
content:
  But I suppose that if you opened the file using picture browser, it might be likely to have a problem


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 18:22:49
content:
  I hope that whoever is managing the server makes sure to update what they need to in order to keep security tight


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 22:02:02
content:
  That entire conversation was nonsensical as no-one really explained what they mean. Let me elaborate:


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 22:02:40
content:
  There is an inventory viewer on the web client, yeah?
  The server might also do processing if you, for instance, upload a new profile picture so that it can have multiple different resolutions, or auto-crop, etc. Etc.

  Not too difficult to get a server to process an image if it has a vulnerable image processing library.


type: message
date: 2023-10-04 22:09:49
content:
  There's a copy of Neos stored on the Neos website (the crypto version, from when Steam disallowed it). That version is one that could be patched without access to Steam as it's just an archive stored on the site. That's what is vulnerable to the LibVPX issue, not the website itself.


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 00:37:48
content:
  Yeah, about that.... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/1159288244630990958/image.png


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 00:52:58
edit_date: 2023-10-05 00:55:01
content:
  I sent an email about it 3 days ago, got a response from Andrea Maloney saying they'll forward it to their "team" so they can get it sorted. Hasn't been sorted yet. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640736570047201281/1159292554962014268/image.png


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 04:23:34
content:
  Hi Nammi, I am sorry I did sent a note to the dev to look at it straight away. Let me chase it up for you. Apologies, you should have your storage back to normal by the end of the day today.


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 04:41:44
edit_date: 2023-10-05 04:46:29
content:
  It’s only been an issue for some users who had an extra space allocated as a result of MMC reward or similar “atypical” sources. Majority of accounts remain unaffected. And we do our best to respond quickly in most instances after we receive the email/note.


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 04:47:53
content:
  Can dev update file? I don't understand all about Webpp or libs, but sounds like major issue was mentioned earlier?


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 09:08:30
content:
  Usually if something like that is known, development work is shifted to fix that one issue before anything else. That's how other places work


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 11:08:58
content:
  id like to point out to u crypto people, u cant use patreon for it. its literally against their TOS. you cant have rewards for patreon pledges that offer a way to receive real money in return, only TOKENS that can be used with in-game or reward system that doesnt exchange to real cash.


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 11:10:27
content:
  I can imagine Patreon is aware, though the NCR story seems to have been sold to Patreon as a utility token, which would be fine


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 11:11:08
content:
  Utility, because you can exchange it for services of that platform, which is true (or was) because you could buy storage with it


type: message
date: 2023-10-05 15:09:42
content:
  That happens as some people are migrating away and they delete their content from Neos. Those people that someone didn't want here, they are leaving and taking their stuff.


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 01:32:56
content:
  In an hour (10:30 pm EDT), the Constant Slerp's will be on Neos for one last time. Anyone is welcome to join us to hang out, talk about Neos and share what the platform has meant to you.


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 19:55:38
content:
  Can someone help me? I need to delete my resonite account so I can register again with my neos username so that I can migrate my neos. I want to keep using the same E-Mail.


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 22:53:00
content:
  You register on Resonite with the same email and the you can migrate, there is a tab for migration in escape menu


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 22:56:20
content:
  I guess I'm just trying to understand how Karel is OK with that or how he doesn't have anything to do with it


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 22:56:37
content:
  If you have a neos account, you will login to Resonite with your Neos credentials and it will migrate everything over.


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 23:21:08
content:
  No, you create a new account in Resonite, but if you use a username that already exists in Neos, it'll tell you that name is reserved for the Neos user of the same name and if you then give your Neos password, it'll offer migration.


type: message
date: 2023-10-06 23:22:22
content:
  at the time Resonite's annoucement all existing Neos Usernames at that time were pre-Reserved. by creating account w/ a Reserved Name, you haveto provide your Neos Password to verify.  from there you have the option to Migrate.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 01:16:44
content:
  said something about duplicate account or something, dunno, but I was told to keep trying and it would eventually work


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 04:08:28
content:
  I've found their emails are going out but they are going out from garbage servers which will get all their emails binned.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 05:30:52
content:
  I don't know from which angle or perspective you have to look at resonite to claim it is "completely different" than neos, all changes I see are cosmetic and a minor inconvenience of account migration


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 06:56:40
content:
  This guy's been afk for weeks/months, and is currently the only public session right now with someone https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640736570047201281/1160108282241876028/image.png?ex=65337608&is=65210108&hm=62fd983489c126b5860bca2c0df076215449cfb534c8c9faf280b9ef5bd569e6&


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 06:58:58
content:
  Normally all my screenshots get uploaded to Imgur and replaced in my clipboard with links but I’m on mobile rn


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 08:36:42
content:
  It only takes a tiny bit of legal understanding and some common sense to know, that it is something different


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 08:40:02
content:
  legal understanding is for lawyers, not players, and common sense says resonite has cloned codebase from neos, and a sprinkle of minor cosmetic changes


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 10:16:50
content:
  So is Karel suing if team just took the code to build new product, while not giving access to the old codebase?


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 10:36:05
content:
  "Steam account and the code of NeosVR was never handed over as it should have. This client is thus independent and this unfortunate matter should be discussed on its Discord not here. I think it’s now beyond clear that this blackmail/strike however you want to call it is not working and both the code and account should be finally handed over. All this is doing is harming users." But this is what Karel said


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 10:38:09
content:
  jupp, hopefully the devs who are striking/blackmailing karel will see the errors of thier way and release the source code, all its doing its hurting users atm


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 11:46:38
content:
  Man, I remember when I first discovered Neos. I thought it'd be like VRChat, but it's so much more, something that actually keeps pretty much all the "metaverse" promises. Creating worlds, items and avatars, all from within the "metaverse", and being able to share them with other players, all within or out of VR. It's a shame it was ruined by crypto, but now we have resonite for that. No crypto, and actual updates. And unlike Neos, running Resonite isn't a security risk.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 11:47:06
content:
  I really hope that any of you actually invested in NCR realize that all crypto investments are, by definition, a ponzi scheme. If you want to make profit, you have to find a bigger sucker to pay more of your tokens than you have. And they have to find an even bigger sucker, and so on. I hope that all of you learn about the sunk cost fallacy, and I hope that you find the strength in you to leave this part of your life behind.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 12:34:58
content:
  Solarix has done a lot of things that alienate the userbase. We're currently looking at an out of date client with known security issues, a company that appears to have strong-armed out 90% of their staff, A unanimous resignation from their volunteer team, and a rebase to a country that absolutely does not support the community values. In the pros column we have a new web interface for a new token chain that doesn't interface with the legacy systems and the promise of an unreal engine based client.

  I am extremely confused as to why people seem fine with blaming the previous devs rather than asking Solarix to take the steps required to recover the steam store. (Which is, following https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/managing_users, to open a support ticket and provide the legal information require to establish officer ship in the entity that registered the page). Why, exactly, are we content with "blame the previous guys. they didn't quit right." as if a company is expected to be so poorly organized as to not have a recovery plan for its core assets.

  Seriously. A clear plan to get back up and running, communicated with a timeline is the bare minimum we should be asking from Solirax. That hasn't been provided. Instead we're left waiting, watching existing platforms getting more sophisticated and competing platforms pop up. As someone with a substantial investment in the ecosystem it disturbs me that a plan of action is entirely missing. It has gotten to the point that I have just about written off my losses in the platform because there has been no clearly articulated plan. Not for transition prior to the staff exidus and now not for disaster recovery.

  The thing that absolutely flabbergasts me is that legitimately just reaching out to the existing community could have facilitated recovery on a lot of these points. It's not like there wasn't an abundance of people who had learned the ins and outs of frooxengine from decompiled releases. It's not like we haven't had people pop in to this very chat to offer solutions, especially when the security of the community was at stake.

  If Solarix takes a single lesson from this, it should be to seriously re-evaluate operational priorities. Identify your core processes, identify the required assets to support those processes. PRIORITIZE MAINTAINING THOSE ASSETS. Damage control can and should come /after/ solutions. Communicating steps being taken can even constitute /both/.

  I frankly think that too many positioning errors have been made for Solarix to recover, but I seriously hope that's not the case. Either way, if this isn't being seen as a major learning experience then the company is dead in the water. We should be demanding a basic post mortem analysis and the documented findings thereof.

  If we were investors, that's what we'd be after once something with this much unchecked risk blew up like this in our faces. At least, if the company wanted to keep us as investors.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 12:53:43
content:
  Bro nobody is coming back. They are all happily engaged in a new project that most of the old userbase is actively enjoying. Don't hold your breath on that one. And afaik they could patch the security issue without the source code. Idk not trying to argue or stir shit just saying they're not coming back lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 12:54:16
content:
  Frankly, there are a lot of obvious red flags in what is being promised right now. Epic has started positioning itself as a professional tool for VFX: https://www.cgchannel.com/2023/10/epic-games-to-start-charging-to-use-unreal-engine-for-vfx/ and the feature set that Neos offers is going to cut into that intended market. Some of the most developed toolchains I've seen in Neos are there explicitly to support a VFX previsualization pipeline.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:00:16
content:
  As many people have pointed out, a Neos like tool appears to violate the licencing terms for unreal engine. This, coupled with Epic's clear signaling on expanding the non-gaming usecase of UE would put any project incorporating Unreal Engine that had the potential to serve as a replacement for an Unreal Engine Licence seat in hot water.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:11:57
content:
  Do you know why people tell you to do your own research when investing? It's because, ideally, looking outside any one single source will give you a better understanding of the risks involved.

  These are actual risks. The next question you ask as an investor is, "Are there mitigating factors that would make this risk more palatable?" You are the only person aware of your financial situation and thus the only person who can effectively determine your risk tolerance. But, in order to do so, you /must/ be curious about your investments. All of your investments, but especially the underperforming ones.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:17:03
content:
  Seriously. Fill out a SWOT chart. If you can not envision weaknesses or threats, then you do not understand the market you are in.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:49:28
content:
  Well having spent some time in it, I like Resonite. Its cosmetically better and maybe better in other ways. Mostly I like the people in-game.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:52:13
edit_date: 2023-10-07 13:59:02
content:
  I just hate the developers. Or rather I hate their actions that lead up to this.
  I hate that Froox threw his NCR buyers under the bus for no reason and forced them to side with Karel.

  I hate how the devs have massively benefitted by propping up a fake narrative that Neos was an innocent project until bad crypto man tried to force it in and they took a stand against it. I hate reading this fake history that shits on me and others.

  Its scummy. But worse is that rather than ever apologize or acknowledge those people he trampled on, Froox disregarded us as this undesirable category and pretends he's now seen the light. Because its safe.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:52:46
content:
  I don't expect them to ever give respects to those people, but atleast here and a few other corners of the net the truth is recorded, even if forgotten. But I doubt I'll ever bring myself to enjoy Resonite because of all that. And believe me I want to.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 13:56:26
content:
  I personally don't feel risk for this. I think Tim is bad at speaking. Even if you could make amazing TV machinima inside Neos someday.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:06:30
content:
  Your perspective is flawed you keep spinning this narrative that the devs are evil black mailers but that's simply not what's happening. They weren't being respected and weren't benefitting from it. So they moved on. Why you're blaming them for quitting instead of the company for not replacing them is beyond me.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:10:03
content:
  sure, then address it, but tbh I don't care. Im not spinning a narrative, I'm saying my feelings on the matter. they just don't align with yours


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:11:11
content:
  Naw, I've been following their comments for like 2 years. Im comfy sharing my feelings, youre the one buttblasted over me doing so.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:12:11
content:
  Guys please, it looks like you both are pretty reasonable so there is no need for emotions like this.
  Charged conversations like this are not productive and just make both sides look bad.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:12:24
content:
  It's false and if you actually followed what's been going on you'd know that you're just butthurt they don't like your ape.jpgs


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:15:56
content:
  We disagree, but I'd never question the effort they've put into researching their position. Their read is as valid as any other, and really think it's rude to dismiss their feelings as somehow ignorant.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:18:59
content:
  /shrug I will question it. Especially when it doesn't line up with the facts. Blaming the devs for leaving is ridiculous. Expecting them to come back and fix things is even worse. I've been listening to orcs "points" for a while now and honestly they're pretty bunk.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:20:49
content:
  @orcbull  I'm sorry for being shitty. I'm frustrated and honestly not feeling well I shouldn't be taking it out on you.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:33:27
edit_date: 2023-10-07 14:34:33
content:
  I don't think i've seen orc say they should come back and fix everything. I think that was that white Mlemer fellow.

  I'm not really the best one to make orc's arguments, but at least I've always had the impression that they mostly felt betrayed by the actions, but haven't been seeking any specific performance outside of acknowledgement that their principles and personal vision of the project got disregarded as unimportant at best, problematic at worse. I distinctly remember them giving room for other emotional narratives within that, going as far to acknowledge the desire for the previous staff to cut ties with Karol to possibly be legitimate while still critiquing the specific methods they employed as ones that caused high collateral damage.

  They may simplify their position rehtorically, but I think they've  spent enough time addressing the multitude of positions (in various degrees of seriousness) for us to assume they are engaging in good faith.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:38:14
content:
  You're correct I conflated the two and again I apologize. I was replying out of frustration that was misplaced.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:39:02
edit_date: 2023-10-07 14:39:28
content:
  Feeling betrayed is a personal experience that cannot be debated. However, I believe we should not blame the developers. They are employees and volunteers, and they do not owe anything to the community. Employees have the right to leave their jobs if they are unhappy with the direction of the company. The leadership is responsible for the success or failure of the project or company.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:41:48
content:
  I dont want to add too much, other than thanks for eve trying to understand my position. I don't blame the devs for leaving, I think that was the only real choice. It's not that at all.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:42:44
content:
  Okay might have missunderstood, if you are not blaming the devs then there isnt anything I really dissagree with I think 👍


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:42:59
edit_date: 2023-10-07 14:45:13
content:
  At the end of the day it's sad regardless. There are a bunch of people who were hurt on both sides and it sucks.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:45:40
content:
  Yeah, 73 is sort of a friendly sign off in internaltional morse, so hams use it in various media as not so much an in joke, but like an in-group nicety.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 14:49:57
content:
  I think NARA is transitioning their VR meetup to another platform, but they are still active. Defiantly the most accessible way to get to TX occasionally and a very knowledgeable group if you need people to help you prep for the exams.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:06:44
content:
  They sold NCR for years, then during the (extremely prolonged) split they made it known that they view NCR and its holders as an extension of Karel, one leaves with the other. Needless and unfair. Froox would say by proxy he doesn't want anything to do with those people (after having accepted money from them for years) and such comments get wide praise. I'm leaving alot out.

  Gonna add, I'm not invested. I got like a few hundred NCR, never cared about price. Its the principle that people were needlessly trampled on and forgotten by a hero figure.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:09:59
edit_date: 2023-10-07 15:10:17
content:
  The karel vs froox stuff is too complex for me to talk about. Just wanted to make sure nobody blames the other devs and volunteers :)


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:13:42
content:
  I think a lot of my issues with the crypto side of thing stem from the way I've seen Karel talk to/about members of the community. I know he's human too but a modicum of grace is required in positions of authority especially when optics can hurt you financial.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:14:52
content:
  Like don't get me wrong I'm sure it comes from a place of deep frustration over a long period of time, but idk 😐 seems like things could/should have been handled better.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:24:02
edit_date: 2023-10-07 15:24:33
content:
  The topic is so derailed. Let this exist as two separate places. Bashing one or the other is childish, and takes away from the ability to enjoy either experience independently


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:28:01
content:
  That's fair and I get why you'd feel insulted. I came here for the crypto initially so I'm kinda part of that boat too. The good news is now neos should be semi clear of people hating on crypto, but I don't know if it'll ever get back to a place of usability.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:29:28
edit_date: 2023-10-07 15:29:52
content:
  Karel's human and I sympathize with someone getting dogpilled. At best he's graceless under pressure in communication and business. I don't even know if he can type English well, there was no hope of him easing people


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:30:52
content:
  There is a simple fix for that lol. That's what a pr team is for. Ideally he should have never had to interact with the community. But I get it start ups often don't invest in pr until way later


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:34:46
content:
  Ngl I've still got a small fistful of NCR and I'd like to eventually see both platforms flourish. Rising tide and what not right. I think that starts with the communities since the odds of froox and karel working things out is pretty nil.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:36:08
content:
  It'd be really cool to have a factual well structured documentary covering the whole thing but I think It'd probably only make things worse lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:36:48
content:
  Froox should provide whats needed for Neos to run atleast, including the Steam account privledges. Otherwise I assume its maliciousness and he wants to bury Neos and doesn't see it as having right to exist


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:38:34
content:
  Since there's an avenue for recovery and it's not being utilized is that out of maliciousness too? Never attribute to maliciousness what can be attributed to ignorance.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:40:14
content:
  There are tons of easier ways they could have made the community suffer if that was the goal. I don't think anyone was aiming for maliciousness


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:43:41
content:
  Like I used to run private servers for gunz the duel and when one of our devs left he dropped tables from our database. That's malicious. Sorry for the pile of messages I think the caffeine is kicking in and my migraine is fading.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:45:24
content:
  Also karel has stated the point of neos foundation is supportability of many clients under development based on what people want and the open source community to further development.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:46:04
edit_date: 2023-10-07 15:50:02
content:
  I kinda agree, doing nothing when no longer employed doesnt really sound malicious, but it also kinda depends on the contract they had which we have no idea of.
  Would be something else if they actively did somethign to harm after like defacing the steam page.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:51:38
content:
  Honestly my biggest hope is that it goes open source. It'd be really difficult for me to justify using reso if neos was updating and open source.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 15:59:21
content:
  As long as they weren't placements just for a tech demo. When's the next update from karel about the development process I wonder. Neos used to have daily updates about their development.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 16:12:41
content:
  I mean technically someone had a gpt instance connected to a world, so you'd just need to figure out how to do speech to text, and I know there's a free python libraries to do it. Just would be a matter of figuring out how to pipe the speech to the server.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 17:26:16
content:
  This is what bothered me too, the attempted rewriting history of "we never liked or wanted NCR, it was all Karel's idea" while encouraging people to buy it on the live stream, at events, even using it as rewards for other events, etc. Then so much of the community jumped on this like rabid little dogs, both mindlessly hating everyone that had NCR (ignoring the fact that most the people that held NCR were LITERALLY other long-term Neos community members) and seemingly doing everything they could to shit-talk NCR with a drive to crash it as much as they could, many outright requesting that it just be "removed" entirely, ignoring that people had paid for it, after being encouraged by the team, to support the platform.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 17:26:44
content:
  That's one of the things that will mean that I can never trust the community as whole again after that, seeing how feral they are and how keen they are to turn on each other.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 17:59:00
content:
  Idk a large chunk of Internet kinda turned on crypto it wasn't just the community. But I could also see why people playing a game for a while and filling their inventory would get upset when the upkeep cost of it skyrockets because someone else is trying to profit.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 18:04:27
content:
  It was a culture war. I frankly wanted nothing to do with most of the people the buzzwords brought in. It was weird listening to people pitch ideas that were at the very least incredibly irresponsible. Had to explain no less than 8 times that no, we should not try to make an in-Neos interface for metamask, that is a sure-fire way to lose your wallet.

  Though the only thing I've ever said negitive about NCR was that I don't like deflationary currencies and that the on and off ramps needed to be streamlined. I generally felt it was a good solution for possibly breaking the payment processer monopolies and ensuring content neutrality. Which I've always considered high priorities and difficult problems to solve.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 18:09:20
content:
  They just wanted the buzzwords. I sware. The practicality or security of the solution was secondary to being able to say that it existed. It was a mentality that legitimately caused me psychic damage every time I encountered it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 19:46:20
content:
  this outcome sucks
  Honestly I don't care about the interpersonal politics; karel vs froox, neos vs resonite, we should NOT care anymore - froox and the team is gone.

  A working metaverse (under the neos/resonite spec) with an economy was super exciting, and seeing that vision "fall off" like this is depressing
  I still have a bunch of NCR, but without a direct neos recovery plan I get the ud of fud - why have a coin if there isn't a future to it

  Is there a future for NCR? Can we see it? a rough timeline, a wikipedia explanation of how the new neos client system is gonna work, how is this gonna be turned around

  or just more regular updates i suppose, most people i've talked with in neos think the unreal engine client was faked, just a 20min asset drag n drop into ue5 - no underlaying "metaverse engine"
  the coin currently has no utility, this needs to be fixed


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 19:49:33
edit_date: 2023-10-07 19:49:49
content:
  I can't quite ignore that feeling, that there aren't any real devs at all. Like I get that you want to avoid harassment to the devs, but on the other hand, not showing at least one of the lead developers who can handle that would be very assuring, that something is coming in the future


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 19:50:44
content:
  It'd be even okay, if that developer would like to remain pseudonymous, at least uploading a youtube video with the developer talking about the project and the plans about the future would be very assuring


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 20:09:25
content:
  Ye it really feels like there is no dev team and no technical plans at all, just talk to keep up the value.
  Would love to be proven wrong


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:16:25
content:
  My thoughts on that is either, The Dev wants nothing to do with the project in an official capacity and as such does not want to be mentioned or the Dev is just some dude hired from a site like fiverr.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:17:32
content:
  Ive gotten some decent work on fiverr but its definitely a mixed bag the main issue there is retaining talent is impossible really due to the gig system


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:18:17
content:
  Yeah it would be something else if it was a one off job, but for something like this especially anything that touches finance you would want an actual hired dev team


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:18:40
content:
  Either way its definitely someone who probably does not care about any of this and is just waiting for an up front paycheck from karl


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:21:50
content:
  That said, do you know who all the developers are for VRChat? It's not *that* unusual. Especially how people get hounded by communities and ESPECIALLY after all the Neos fallout that there was.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:22:47
content:
  VRChat isnt financial or investment platform tho, also no history of no dev progress at all and whole team leaving


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:28:54
content:
  Oh i absolutely do not expect to know every dev of every company, this is just a unique case because karel has constantly rallied and complained about pseudonyms and anonymity within companies, stating that everyone should use their real name and it should be publicly facing visible.
  It would be odd for him to suddenly change his mind on this


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:29:48
content:
  When there's such a community of hatred out there, I'd not be surprised if he's waiting a long while for that to all die down first.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:30:40
content:
  Considerng my general experience with dev projects that seems like wishful thinking. Im p sure the ARK devs still get death threats to this day


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:31:06
content:
  The thing is, Neos was never meant to be either. NCR was meant to be a utility token for in-game use and purchases. The speculative price explosion is what ended up ruining it. Money who's value fluctuates wildly isn't effective as a usable currency.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:32:09
content:
  Yup, the speculative aspect of NCR is the main issue with it since it effectively destroys its usability as a marketplace currency as products priced with it would widly fluctuate in value


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:32:47
content:
  Yeahhhh, I though it was a cool idea as an in game currency, but like a crypto that is mostly used as a speculative investment is not something that I wanted


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:37:35
content:
  so if coin was more stable, people not be so mad and more creation get done? How come investor not use coin to pay others?


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:38:13
content:
  yeah it doesnt have to be a crypto coin, non crypto based systems for this work fine, main idea is to have a non money in between, which is what most sites do, Steam, most games etc


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:39:01
content:
  Yeh, platforms like SL basically work like that but its not crypto, its just some monopoly money that has in game use


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:39:18
content:
  if you use a non stable coin for its designed purpose you get a similiar effect to the ghetto issue where big corporations syphon money from a community but for different reasons


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:39:48
content:
  because as people cash out to pay their bills the currency weakens as that money does not re enter the "community"


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:40:52
content:
  This is a force that also affects countries at scale such as japan when it comes to imports and exports etc


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:46:40
content:
  But then how do investors get value? If community cannot build because not given NCR for space, then no value for platform. Why did early investors not see that?


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:46:44
content:
  in this analogy investors would be the community who want to keep their money internal while workers are the "corporations" its morally not the same of course but the system of wealth reduction works similiarly


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:47:48
edit_date: 2023-10-07 21:48:02
content:
  Exactly thats the problem, if you have a speculative currency it is designed against real use as real use would devalue it

  Ergo paying people with it is not ideal as those people will need to pay bills etc which devalues it over time


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:53:25
content:
  The problem here is scale, this only works on large scales, in its build up stages this isnt really possible as it doesnt have the utility backing nor the actual community behind it, which just leads to people cashing out with no one to fill the gap

  And thats not even mentioning the issue of someone directly manipulating the market through purchases and sells of the currency itself at early stages

  I mean hell this is an issue that even japan was struggling with their currency


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 21:54:36
content:
  Japan ending up beholden to imports devalued their currency because their own protectionism internally wasnt strong enough which caused this


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 22:24:20
content:
  The majority of the people that funnelled in had no interest in the platform, hell they had no idea what it was, what it did or even who used it - nevermind paying any of us that were making content. They just saw "line goes up" so they put in money so that they could take it back out when "line had gone really high up". That was it. As soon as the line jumped up, a load of people took theirs back out, which made the line go down more, so more people took out, so the line went down more.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 22:25:03
content:
  Annoyingly we (the people using the platform) were also told there would be buybacks at minting price when we wanted to cash out.  That didn't appear to ever be true, though I'd love to be proven wrong there.


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 22:26:24
content:
  I think there were buybacks? I remember reading about them. They were contracts on blockchain and did very well


type: message
date: 2023-10-07 22:32:11
edit_date: 2023-10-07 22:39:15
content:
  Alright well i think its time.

  Karel I hope you enjoy your metaverse. 

  Every moment it loses content, now there is only one world open, soon there will be none. 

  you Have no code, no developers, no database. The team you drove out, that you demanded to end the strike as soon as a few days ago now have their competitor fully released. 

  Goodbye and if you keep running your business as well as you have here, im sure we will never hear of you again. 


  Oh and Orc you are the dumbest dude I have ever met, and that includes karel.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 00:15:58
content:
  I got a notification about someone mentioning me with the start "resonite is not neos it does not have NCR" which im just wondering why that mentioned me XD


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 00:16:58
content:
  Oh that was me too it was supposed to be in response to won but I realized they had a different issue xD sorry I'm stoned


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 00:46:14
content:
  https://ash.tips/20231008004554BLhcw.png

  Mine looks to be there even though I imported to Resonite.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 02:31:14
content:
  The resonite team has no control over NCR. That is purely Karel's responsibility now - NCR functionality is only available and only will be available in Neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 02:32:45
content:
  Re: this - that's a question for Neos. Resonite doesn't touch NCR at all, it doesn't even have crypto code. It just copies content from the inventory and basic account info


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 02:47:16
content:
  They also had mods posting content and NCR hashtags on social media and facilitating NCR purchases via PayPal. When that is brought up, response is always that mods are some sort of pseudo-independent from them.

  Basically if there's a convenience they can take, they will because the community is happy to play along in this ends-justify-means way. But never admit responsibility.

  They behave like crooked politicians.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 03:04:15
edit_date: 2023-10-08 03:11:19
content:
  I do not appreciate these kinds of comments, especially given that they lack objectivity and are instead driven by emotions and personal negativity. 

  Let me clarify something - Neos is not dead. Those who chose to leave NeosVR have every right to do so, and we are genuinely happy that they have found a platform where they feel comfortable. I haven't personally experienced Resonite, but it seems like a great effort.

  As for us - we are working on solutions that are going to be better optimised for future usability, following the vision that has been outlined in the Whitepaper 1.10 and I am optimistic that many platforms can exist alongside. It’s good for everyone. 

  But I am genuinely puzzled as to why there is still a need to hold grudges and descend to insults. Do you see myself or Karel posting horrible comments on Resonite's Discord or harassing anyone from the previous team for that matter? 

  Despite that we have always said that we would wish to support NeosVR development and we have encouraged open sourcing, we have been continuously accused of incompetence, selfishness, scam and whatnot. 

  Let me clarify once again  - we were (and still are) fully prepared to support NeosVR's development. We offered various incentives for open sourcing and collaboration to ensure that people wouldn't feel trapped in this unfortunate situation. Regrettably, some people seem more inclined to let Neos die out of pure spite.

  I find it quite astonishing how much hatered this “loving community” can harbor. If this is what we have lost then I think we are better off without. 

  Regarding our progress, we are going steady and checking boxes. Staking is nearly ready, and we will be giving updates very soon. And we are always happy to engage with open-minded people who can approach discussions rationally.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 03:57:27
edit_date: 2023-10-08 03:57:44
content:
  While this is definitely true for you Andrea that you have done no such thing, Karel has in the past and recent history made remarks about the ex-Neos team many times and often very disparagingly and publicly.

  I agree that insults and attacks are unwarranted but portraying this as a one-sided issue is not really fully truthful.

  However i am looking forward to what yall release


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 03:58:15
content:
  The biggest problem neos has right now is no clear development of a platform. It's like many of those other currencies that had a promise of a platform with the metaverse boom and have been left with a significant hole for many who aren't here just for the crypto. I want to see a proper social platform where people can thrive and create the content of their dreams.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 04:59:44
edit_date: 2023-10-08 05:01:50
content:
  You lost your... ENTIRE community though. And Karel DID often make terrible remarks towards the Neos development team. 

  NCR turned sour, and instead of listening to your playerbase and development team when they urged a pivot away because of inherent problems with the idea, Karel doubled down, even going as far as to threaten legal actions if his crypto demands weren't met. 

  Your remaining team drove itself to this point. Not the people upset about how you've basically destroyed the community, not the developers with well documented claims of not being properly managed or compensated, not those who begged to see the platform change course when NCR crashed and ruined many community members. 

  The fact that you once had a community of thousands, which has now dwindled to like... 6? Concurrent users? It's stark. And the fact you not only do not recognize you lost basically your most valuable asset, but have open scorn for the people who worked and created for hours and hours and days and days to make the platform as advanced and future-thinking as it was, completely exemplifies the problem. 

  Good luck bringing in any sort of new community; with no one there to work on FrooxEngine, and no momentum behind the things that made people enjoy the platform, you really will need it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:06:43
edit_date: 2023-10-08 05:09:05
content:
  Basically all you have at this point is a dead coin. This is nothing more than many of the other crypto metaverse projects with an underdeveloped platform have; in some ways, it may be worse, because you have a tarnished name and a platform in limbo.

  The new gamified mining thing you rolled out (developed in Unreal, I may add) also exemplifies how little you actually know about why Neos was promising to begin with. If you just turn yourself into a decentraland clone, maybe you'll have some financial success, possibly, but it won't be Neos anymore.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:11:25
edit_date: 2023-10-08 05:13:05
content:
  You don't have a platform anymore, you have a coin. You don't even have anyone who knows how FrooxEngine works, if you even have access to the FrooxEngine source code. And this would have been avoidable from your actions, not the actions of the community you have such a disdain for - the community that built EVERYTHING that could have been seen inside Neos. The ones who made ALL your content. And I think going forward you should probably just admit that.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:15:05
content:
  Hello☺️ it sounds like you are very distressed and I’m very sorry that there isn’t anything that I can do or say at this point that would make it better. But I do wish you much happiness and quality time spent in whichever VR platform of your choice ☺️


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:16:30
edit_date: 2023-10-08 05:16:43
content:
  You're right, there isn't, because you don't understand what the platform was supposed to be. Which is fine, you're business-oriented, but it was more than just an investment engine; without users, a platform doesn't have a future financially. That's what you risk when you go into business with a social platform.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:18:18
content:
  It's not that we want to see it "die"; it's that if you don't find a way to bring in massive amounts of users that will create content and value to them provide worth to the platform, it's not a platform. That's just how it works. Unless you have a massive plan to make the platform have more users, or you pivot to something that isn't a platform, you're adrift and might as well be as good as dead.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:21:06
content:
  Or even a small chunk. If they haven't figured out what a mess they're in yet, they never will. The only chunk of the team that the community trusted are gone. Nobody will ever trust them on their word if they don't follow through with anything.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:21:08
edit_date: 2023-10-08 05:21:34
content:
  It was always the saddest outcome to come to this; of course no one from the now-resonite, then-neos community wanted to upend everything and lose a large amount of legacy content and users in the migration. But the condescension towards the community that created monetary value for the platform and that were its biggest advocates, as well as further pushes for a coin that wasn't working out, overriding/hijacking the development roadmap along the way to make it basically just a vehicle for NCR and not much else? It just exemplifies why it was necessary.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:25:48
content:
  The devs that left already have and continue to follow through on a lot of what they say they're working on


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:27:09
content:
  Yeah. Resonite's Cloud Home exemplifies what they could have done all this time if they'd had the support and confidence they needed from the get to :(


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:27:15
content:
  But the UE announcement was hyped up as something massive, but we only have proof of it being a prototype. I've tried multiple times to get clarification on if it can even load assets on the fly, which is arguably the core of neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:37:33
content:
  Probably because that would have put them in legal problems. You can't just sell something (e.g. a coin) then go "actually we're getting rid of it now". There are people in US federal jail for having done similar things.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:39:46
content:
  Like Many Projects Managed By Furries Their Business Acumen Is Spotty At Best

  The Optimal Way To Cope With This Is To Have No NCR Stake And Move On And Enjoy The New Product Without Interfacing With The Developers


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:47:46
content:
  A few days ago Karel and Andrea had the "Neos Team" role in the Discord server. But they didn't have Admin. But I noticed Former-Neos-now-Resonite team members with Admin.

  Today the server has been set to read only, and all the existing moderators have had their roles stripped. Even Karel and Andrea no longer have Neos Team as a role. But some Former-Neos-now-Resonite team members still have Admin powers on the discord.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:47:51
content:
  stop putting shit in people's mouth like a little creep. Trying to take out your rage against Karel on some person doing their best while vile little pricks like you come in, thinking nothing of other people's feelings, acting like a rabid little asshole and pretending creeps like you aren't largely responsible for the lack of nuance in communication between them and the community


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:51:25
content:
  I don't know who set it to read-only but if former Neos members did it, I think they're playing dirty, on one hand withholding source, which Karel seems to say was agreed to, withholding access to Steam access and now this. Maybe they don't just want to launch their own platform, they want to force-kill the old one.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:52:56
content:
  Naw, I've never cared about NCR's price. I have like 200 of them and there's a good chance I got them before you ever waddled onto the platform


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:53:48
content:
  I explained earlier in detail my feelings on why Froox willfully trampled on a lot of people to benefit himself.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 05:58:12
content:
  It Happened And They Won And That's The End Of The Story At Some Point You Have To Realize This Has Become Frivolous And There Is No Reason Left To Argue


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:00:16
edit_date: 2023-10-08 06:00:49
content:
  Heck I got this picture sorted on my very first bread day. I happened to join in the Neos stream in September 2020 and managed to get Froox to shake hands with me https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640736570047201281/1160456334848831518/friendshipendedvrchatnowneosismybestfriend.png


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:01:56
content:
  https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/402159839251398666/752703691844223077 Where I posted it on the discord


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:02:46
content:
  I don't really care. and you seem to care how much NCR I have. If you want to play some pitiful status game with me: F-ck you, I don't care.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:04:08
content:
  Locking The Discord Closes The Gates And Forces Further Legal Action But They Will Be Able To Fund It With Resonite


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:10:11
content:
  I care. About Neos, my vision of a real metaverse, and about the people I feel got trampled on and forgotten


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:10:12
content:
  Karel has said its both unofficial, and then clarified it is official, but for the Unity Client. Aka the only actual Neos game we have on Steam and standalone on neos.com.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:11:53
content:
  Also I believe that Karel is the CEO of Solirax, he could just request access to the Steam page and Discord guild as the publisher of the game.
  Lots of words, not a lot of actions. 

  I'd like to see NCR rise again, I've put lots of money in it but right now, there is close to no transparency on what's being done.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:15:58
content:
  Id rather just lurk but I'm sad to see Andrea bothering to respond to some dickhole coming in to get a last word.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:18:20
content:
  My Interest In The Debacle Has Waned As The People Who Have Manipulated This Scenario Are Clearly Too Deep In Their Manufacturing


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:21:41
content:
  to a lot of people here, this all represented a possible future and place to build or be who you wanted


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:24:53
content:
  that's me though. I don't think I can really smile inside the little world created by someone I feel maliciously hurt and insulted so many for his concenience.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:28:13
content:
  It Is Reflected In The Product But This Will Be A Community Driven Effort With Money Being Skimmed Off Of The Top Via Cloud Hosting Like Every Other SaaS


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:28:39
content:
  I cant tell if you're not a resonite player or if youre the type to seperate the creator from the work


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:29:08
content:
  I Have Not Installed Resonite Because Its Feature Set Looks Similarly Weak To That Which Could Be Produced In Neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:32:59
edit_date: 2023-10-08 06:33:21
content:
  If R petters out to around 200 players average after a while it will be a shameful disappointment. That would be 3 chances of wide success squandered by incompetance. First being the ncr crypto windfall, second the EAC VRC debacle, and now this relaunch


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:34:19
content:
  It Will Capture The Second Life VR Market And Be Suitable For That And Collect Enough Funding Off Of That Alone


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:41:21
content:
  Froox Is Smart But Gullible But Hopefully They Can Find Peace With Resonite To Do What They Want Without Drama


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:42:29
content:
  The Riders On The Resonite Project Are Leeches But They Have Embedded Their Parasitic Mandables Into The Yellow Dog Man


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:45:06
content:
  Resonite Will Be Successful Off Of The Back Of Froox And The Community That Does The Rest Of The Lifting Unless The Neos Toxicity Leaves Their Collective Minds


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:46:47
content:
  mans really typing like a monologuing villain 😂
  who types with the start of every word being capital. unless its a mobile setting.


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:50:25
content:
  I Will Be Observing From Afar For The Air To Clear Once The Landfill Has Successfully Composted Into A Meadow Of Creation


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:51:21
content:
  since its on topic, one of my favorite things to do is find the f-list profiles of various aggressive Neos users from discord and laugh at the things theyre into


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:52:42
content:
  it seems "S h e l l o" and "Leorio" is the same person. from the comments i bet your also a VRC user


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:55:37
content:
  It Is A Bit Ironic To See How Determined And Professional Some People Behave On Accounts That Directly Link To Themselves In Diapers But Far Be It For Me To Judge Them


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 06:57:07
content:
  I Wish I Could Use Logix With Chat G P T To Write My Messages For Me But This Is What I Have Been Given


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 14:55:17
content:
  man if a furry was a twink in bed id be scared af because they are probably the IT lead of my isp or something


type: message
date: 2023-10-08 17:07:43
content:
  I mean it costs to host API servers and I wouldn't host servers for a game I'm not playing either especially if the games owners weren't taking it seriously


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:33:48
content:
  Yes everyone.

  Karel is the only one left peddling a scam, with Andrea doing his dirty work.

  If you’re looking for a crypto scam to invest in, this isn’t the one.


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:35:02
content:
  I know you have strong feelings about how this whole situation was dealt with, but IMO, it's better if you leave the negativity behind, and enjoy the other platforms that you are interested in.


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:36:45
edit_date: 2023-10-09 22:36:53
content:
  i knew alot of neos users. its basically a ghost town at this point. at this point we cant really save neos as a platform. so why not make other platform what neos could have been


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:38:40
content:
  hey, maybe karel can turn neos into something competitive. Honestly theres a chance even with the crypto ties. it could potentially be there. but who knows


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:41:29
content:
  it does suck that it did kinda come to this point however. seeing my friends list with 0 online was really striking.


type: message
date: 2023-10-09 22:43:28
content:
  oh i am in resonite. 60 hours already under my belt. you wont see me around for awhile due to my ban transfering. Ive been making many assets for new users such as badges (i have a whole collection of custom ones)


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 02:46:38
content:
  A lot of people are deleting their Neos accounts after moving, so it's likely a lot of stuff will vanish


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 02:52:06
content:
  Stuff made in Neos will be ported to Resonite if the user makes a Resonite account and chooses to migrate


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 09:04:43
content:
  Irrelevant. Courts will uphold agreements without contracts. Including oral agreements if there is proof.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 09:14:45
content:
  Is that how it even works? If no contract, then why would court care? People keep saying Forx was listed seperately on site, so they themself?


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 09:30:32
content:
  Are you so naive you think the existence of a signed piece of paper is the deciding factor in a case like this?


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 11:28:49
content:
  It's either: You have a signed agreement, or the court won't do crap because there's no evidence of anything other than a "he said she said" argument


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 11:30:43
content:
  After all, there can't be an agreement without... you know, an agreement. One they can touch that isn't just ephemeral sound waves.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 11:35:39
content:
  Yeah, there’s a reason why almost all  contracts are put on paper here
  Oral agreements are only good if you’re trying to sell a DVD on your local version of Craigslist


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 11:38:41
content:
  Nope contract is required, froox provided a service unless it is stipulated that the code produced while at a company is explicitly owned by the company ownership is assumed to belong to the Creator. This is why real companies include a clause about owning anything you make while there.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 12:59:04
edit_date: 2023-10-10 12:59:21
content:
  My guess was, the agreement was like, frooxius continued to work on the code of his pet project, while Solirax has the rights to publish it


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 13:01:43
content:
  LMFAO Are you so naive you think the existence of hearsay is the deciding factor in a case like this?
  Man, has lawfair have a harsh lesson to teach you.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 13:04:33
content:
  in all honesty if morality was the debate here we'd be discussing how the company has treated it's customer base as well but honestly at this point it's far too late in the game to consider morality. it's more about legality at this point since there was no ability to secure a negotiation.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 13:05:14
content:
  And things happening the way they are, either it's all legally sound or it hasn't been questioned in court yet


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 13:07:29
content:
  idk if we're speculating lets make it fun. karel and froox are the same person and the whole thing was designed to produce a fanatic userbase that would fervently cling on to the platform.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 18:45:44
content:
  I think it's my time to head out. I hope an honest and fruitful life to everyone. remember that the gain or loss of something as silly as money is not worth a life.
  happy trails, Karel, and everyone who contributed to this project.


type: message
date: 2023-10-10 18:53:37
content:
  I saw them both together many years ago in Neos, but that was around 4 years ago now. Hell, I even have videos of them back then and the community manager talking about NCR, lol.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 03:27:54
edit_date: 2023-10-11 03:28:17
content:
  No, perhaps Karel liquidated that amount to use it for sponsoring and paying salaries to the Resonite development team, as well as celebrating the launch of Resonite.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 07:42:47
edit_date: 2023-10-11 07:43:40
content:
  if there's any possible lawsuit I don't know/think it'd be from Solirax, but from the NCR holders to those devs


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 07:44:39
edit_date: 2023-10-11 07:45:03
content:
  The angle would be while they were representing that company they stayed in it and then took multiple actions to purposefully damage the value of those investments


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 07:51:50
edit_date: 2023-10-11 07:53:15
content:
  If He Had A Furry Persona Instead Of A Rick And Morty Self - Insert Maybe Neos Could Have Remained In His Power


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 07:53:23
content:
  I definitely think if Karel was more of a terminally online sort of person, not even furry, he'd have not been migrated out of the in circle


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:03:29
content:
  no, their actions before that, where they dragged NCR funders into the fued between themselves, and the craven way they distanced themselves from those people to save face


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:04:48
content:
  they spent the last two years, while wearing solirax hats, disparaging the product they sold to people, who just prior they were shilling


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:05:55
content:
  I know you want to believe Froox is judt gullible and got in over his head but no, its much more self-serving and malicious than that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:11:41
content:
  will anything come of it? I dunno, maybe if youre an NCR holder or someone who lost alot on it, stay in touch with each other


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:44:26
content:
  I don't think so, there were no obligations to NCR holders. NCR was meant as a utility, not a security, the utility was fulfilled by allowing to buy storage with NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:45:42
content:
  It would be interesting to see if that'd actually stand. But could mean other dead projects could become more dead, or projects in danger could be overrun.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:46:25
edit_date: 2023-10-11 08:47:34
content:
  Afaik, Karel reacted to the pump and dump that was done by bad actors. So he was buying back NCR. The other actions were an attempt to raise the value of NCR. So the attempts to rescue what NCR was were there. Can't say purposefully damaging value.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:50:24
content:
  It was never sold as an investment. It was never said to be an investment, except NCR holders coined that term themselves


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:54:30
content:
  If you mean the case against the devs? They didn't receive any compensation from the minting and sale of NCR. So they had no obligations to deliver anything towards NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:55:33
edit_date: 2023-10-11 08:58:04
content:
  It was talked about in multiple streams about how it would be worth so much more in the future. Also the ICO operated on a sliding scale where the value to mint would increase.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:56:33
content:
  Also even if it was never called an investment (spoiler, Froox himself said "think of it like an investment") that doesn't protect it from being questioned in court


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 08:59:17
content:
  For once, there was a pump and dump. The charts of NCR value undoubtedly show that it happened. No Karel didn't dump, he actually bought back working against the dump


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:04:13
content:
  Doesn't match what I heard the dev team and Karel all say, that no money from the ICO had ever been used for anything before the development freeze


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:06:59
content:
  Well you need to see their words on it. They said people got paid when they submitted invoices. They can't really pick and choose and say after this period the money prior doesn't count toward development


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:07:46
content:
  Yes, ICO wasn't the only source of money. But it was a source they haven't touched, because there was enough through investors and Patreon


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:11:02
content:
  NCR was a product sold for real money to people. They developed code while selling NCR. In the last two years, the devs started heavily disparaging that product *after* it was sold. They did this while positioned as members of the organization that sold it. They implied they wanted to erase the product.

  Then they take the code they developed while funded, leave and redeploy the same code under a new company to avoid obligation to those funders


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:11:13
content:
  Whatever money might have been used from the ICO before development freeze could have been to pay for the cloud services. That would have been okay as storage could be paid using NCR, which would actually release the money to be used to pay for cloud services


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:14:01
edit_date: 2023-10-11 09:14:06
content:
  The company's money is the company's money... from all sources. And people were paid and Neos servers remained on because of that money. You can't imply only certain sources of money were used.... even as far back as 2018


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:17:08
content:
  was NCR used to reward community members to develope content inside the ecosystem and attract players?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:18:29
content:
  Even if you bought NCR with Patreon. It's still money from Patreon, not ICO, that is usable. The utility through the NCR is a perk you got for supporting on Patreon and you could even opt out of receiving the NCR, which would change nothing about funding through Patreon


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:19:39
content:
  CDFT was used to reward community members. This CDFT was a factor that was exchanged for NCR, that had been minted without creating any money from it


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:20:34
content:
  These minting batches were part of the white paper itself, which you might be able to get a copy somewhere


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:22:46
content:
  But majority of people chose to receive their NCR, which was usable in the game and also sold to then through other means... implying it had monetary value. And then after years of distributing this asset, those developers took steps to damage it through public statements. Then they left with the code that was partially funded by selling that product to launch a competing game using the same code


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:23:08
content:
  Anyway, whatever, looking into how things were handled, NCR holders were never investors and they have no leverage for a lawsuit against either Frooxius or Solirax


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:25:35
content:
  Source of that stuff is buried in the history of this group and on discord. You could even ask dev team members about some things and they may answer, like how they never received money from the ICO. I'm sure that's something they can tell you


