# messages

type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:25:53
content:
  NCR was sold as an investment imo. Maybe the whitepaper doesn't call it that, but every bit of its marketing implies it, along with some isolated statements


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:26:37
edit_date: 2023-10-11 09:26:59
content:
  That's what you think, but you won't ever find mention of it being an investment on the website, the archive.org of that website, any of the white papers or anything Karel said in here


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:31:24
content:
  I like how your quote is accurate enough. Thinking of something like an investment doesn't make it that. It's an analogy


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:36:16
content:
  how do you know what funds paid for what parts of Neos or keeping the lights on? If anyone would know it'd be the only person handling the finances, Karel


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:38:13
content:
  Either way, Yes NCR was sold in an ICO and yes Neos devs later sought to purposefully damage it over a prolonged period before they left


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:42:51
content:
  so after they made their decision to seperate, they knew well not to send invoices. Sounds like a very MOTIVATED thing to do


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:47:30
content:
  NCR was a factor. NCR funds ended up in pockets. It kept Neos servers on, it funded MMC rewards, it possibly helped out food on Froox's plate.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:49:41
content:
  Ohh, they could have had CDFT and turned into NCR and having even sold it. Doesn't mean that ICO money had been used


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:52:55
content:
  It would at best actually be the devs having minted NCR by paying into ICO. So the opposite of what you're trying to prove.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:55:48
content:
  I'd wait to see whoever handled the ICO to disclose, what happened with the Ethereum. Let's see where it actually went


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:57:10
content:
  Most of it went probably into buy backs. The other amount of it went to pay gas fees. If anything went elsewhere it is logged on the blockchain


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:58:19
content:
  Doesn't matter because it was sold in multiple ways, through patreon, incentive for content/ building up the ecosystem.. it was even sold by mods through paypal


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 09:59:56
content:
  Haha, that is so funny. What does it make a difference if someone sells tokens they personally own, even if they were an employee?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:10:15
content:
  We need to contact many of the NCR holders to discuss. At this point, the project is almost a scam. We've lost a lot of money believing in Frooxius, Karel, and the Neos development team...


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:32:06
edit_date: 2023-10-11 10:32:25
content:
  I was thinking and I guess I see what you are trying to do. You want to make devs responsible for selling NCR at market value? If that's it, what about the pump and dump group(s) who did that and made a fortune? I doubt the devs even had enough NCR to cause a dent on the chart.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:47:03
content:
  Contractor relationship really limits the liabilities of contractors to the employer for representation in the UK


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:47:42
content:
  It seems to even be less of a relationship, as Frooxius is the developer, Solirax is a publisher. That's what the steam page says


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:48:54
content:
  I see that as another indicator, that the rights to FrooxEngine have always been at Frooxius himself


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:50:29
content:
  Also, we could currently held Solirax responsible to not fulfilling the utility of NCR. Or did I miss any updates to the website to be able to buy storage again?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 10:59:36
content:
  Certainly it seems the company does not appear to have fulfilled its obligations. The questions then become:

  - Did the leadership mislead?
  - Was it negligence?
  - No fault?
  - What can the company do now to make it right?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:05:38
content:
  Realistically though, the company still exists, NCR still exists, they still own everything prior they did to begin with with exception to cash flow as some customers appear to have left.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:07:55
content:
  thats how I see it. I've got no qualms about what Neos is doing in relation to its obligation to ncr if you want to call it that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:09:08
content:
  NeosVR seems to have been a failed experiment so far, even though I saw potential to have a world like ready player one in there


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:09:54
content:
  Well, another way to start trust is to have one of the developers being a representative for the development team behind the unreal client and publish weekly or monthly update blogs


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:10:37
content:
  Given the extent of what happened, I don't think 'trust' is a thing that's gonna happen from anybody on any side of this regardless of what you believe in


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:11:19
content:
  This is messy because some say there's no contract, your calling them contractors, thomas is saying ones just a publisher, despite the relationshop between the two being clearly more than that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:13:39
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:13:48
content:
  it sounds like people just argue Froox is whatever makes him the least responsible for any harm but also the most deserving of all value and property, lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:13:44
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:14:13
content:
  Given that it's messy, we cannot realistically believe in any contract regardless. So if we assume that there were, in fact, no contracts, (invoices don't count) then there cannot realistically be any liability because they were never A) Contracted, and were never B) Employees. Given that NCR is not a security nor governance in any sense of the word, and is considered a speculative asset, we cannot assume damages either


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:14:58
content:
  Actually, if anyone deserves respect, then it is Frooxius for his achievements and making NeosVR even possible


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:15:56
content:
  I disagree, because most of what you say makes assumptions about how this should all be interpretted as convenient to only one side


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:16:21
content:
  Then we shouldn't make assumptions in the opposite direction either towards the motives of other team members


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:17:31
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:17:44
content:
  Everyone's argument in Froox's behalf hinges on symantics and technicalities that clearly don't align with reality


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:18:03
content:
  The projections of motivations probably don't help when you try to describe your viewpoint either btw


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:19:38
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:19:47
content:
  If the team wanted one thing, I believe,  that'd be Karel to become a sensible person and make up for things he did


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:22:00
content:
  You say we cannot assume, so we also shouldn't assume the motivations of individuals who likely could not dictate their actions for the sake of the concluded legal situation


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:23:08
content:
  No? froox got years of growth on his platform funded from others, and jettisoned everyone he didnt like


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:23:19
content:
  There isn't a legal requirement for a written contract to be in place for a contractor in the UK, it's just highly recommended to hold parties to account etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:23:32
content:
  However, I also see single individuals from the dev team demanding things, that were impossible to implement while still keeping NCR afloat


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:24:44
content:
  Everyone's like "Liability!" but then fail to see the implications of what a real suit might do to their 'investments'


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:24:49
content:
  For NCR to be utility, it'd have to been implemented as a core element with exclusivity. Something that a certain loud dev member opposed


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:25:21
content:
  I think you're right about this, although in my case, I'm not particularly aiming to protect him. I just think that there is /a lot/ of issues from what I've been made aware of as far as the contractor relationship goes.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:26:08
content:
  At least good to know, that Resonite got nothing out of the ICO, because they don't deserve even a single bit of it with what they did there


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:26:22
content:
  If you care about the people who care about the value, then it would probably be ill-advised to jeopardize their investment further


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:27:01
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:27:28
content:
  Froox was a director and liable some things, being incorporated as a limited company in the UK doesn't remove liability, just limits it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:28:20
content:
  I think you are confusing things. I know that devs team members sent in invoices in the past and got paid from money, that was the funds from investors and Patreon


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:28:28
content:
  I don't care what anyone here thinks about me. Or the situation. I'd care what an unbiased and informed judge or lawyer thinks


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:29:09
content:
  The problem I can foresee when it comes to suing the company directors for not meeting their obligations is that you have two sides of the same coin. Both sides viewed the other side not meeting their obligations; I don't know what a court would decide, but it's not obvious to me.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:30:39
content:
  If you only care about what an unbiased judge thinks, then why do we go around in circles with you telling people to shut up so they don't listen to you, arguing and getting nothing done because people don't wanna listen


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:31:47
content:
  If you only care about unbiased opinions: This chat isn't for you. And on the flip side if you want your points to be understood, don't tell people to shut up when they contradict your arguments. Attacking the people behind the arguments means the argument probably ain't too good pal


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:32:39
content:
  He's a director in the limited company filings, regardless of title, you can title yourself anything


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:32:45
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:33:06
content:
  I don't know where contractor came from, thats a new thing in the discussion I havent really been hearing until today


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:34:43
content:
  From what's been repeated from both Karel and the og dev team, the people that worked for the company were never employees, they were legally/treated as a contractors


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:38:50
content:
  Unlike employees in the UK, with contractors stuff like intellectual property, liabilities is/are not transferred as part of work performed, it needs to be explicitly agreed to in contracts. This is why contracts for contractors often include such clauses for liabilities to complete, transfer of IP etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:39:47
content:
  as a contractor, all of the work's copyright stays with the original author of that work. Except when explicitly agreed upon in front that such a copyright transfer is being done, which hasn't been in any of the agreements to my knowledge


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:41:17
content:
  It wouldn't even make sense to see Frooxius as a contractor, as he was directly also an owner of Solirax


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:41:33
content:
  Froox isn't an employee nor a contractor. Directors IP also do not automatically pass to a company they're doing work for too


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:42:08
content:
  I don't think there was even an agreement, where the director's IP went, so it stays with Frooxius as well


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:42:35
content:
  I feel like alot of this would be of no concern if he chose to share the code with the original project, not make efforts to maim it


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:44:07
content:
  Frooxius has worked for education before. Which I think was even what made NeosVR's ancestor possible


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:44:20
edit_date: 2023-10-11 11:44:43
content:
  I've been arguing that that IP was developed with the help of funds obtained by selling NCR in various means


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:44:42
content:
  And even if he shares the IP rights, the company cannot demand access to the source code, having IP rights doesn't mean you can force someone to give you a copy of code.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:45:29
content:
  Dev team members say, they never received anything from those funds. I think I remember Karel even saying that himself, but I might be hallucinating that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:45:38
content:
  If for example I have copyright over a book, I cannot force someone who owns a copy to give me their copy or to force them to make a copy to give me.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:45:40
content:
  Except the IP wasn't developed. Patreon and such just went to overhead; Karel had control of the funds the entire time


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:45:52
content:
  What happened is Karel offering money from these funds and the developers all refusing to even send invoices


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:45:56
content:
  thats a bunk claim then given the prolonged time NCR was sold and the costs of maintaining Neos. Again that's just arbitrarily partitioning off funds for convenience of your argument


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:46:39
content:
  That way it's damn sure they never received any of the ICO funds, as they out right refused to be paid from that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:48:03
content:
  whats in the company's war chest is money. The company's money is the company's money regardless of where it's stored. And devs had been paid in the past, and Neos infrastructure funded and operating because of those funds. Does upkeeping Neos not help its development? lol.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:49:48
content:
  ICO funds are still part of thr company's runway, but even ignoring that, NCR was sold and given out in various other ways


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:54:19
content:
  If the developers ever got paid anything from Patreon while NCR was distributed for pledging, that counts


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:55:36
content:
  And there's the other issue that while they remained under Neos as developers, they disparaged the prosuct they were just prior promoting and selling to people


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 11:57:05
content:
  In the hypothetical scenario the IP for the software is awarded to the company, including rights over the source code, the company would still not have the source code unless it already had a copy of it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:00:23
content:
  Its always the same. Everything Froox does is not liable to anyone, but at the same time he's owner of all property


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:02:34
edit_date: 2023-10-11 12:02:49
content:
  The only problem I see with Patreon is that it sometimes forgets to award people the NCR or storage they're due.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:03:29
content:
  Well, I cannot make out a rug-pull in this case. Karel bought back NCR. The dev team never received anything from the ICO. Either of these being the opposite would be a requirement for it being a rug-pull from their end


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:04:29
content:
  we can easily establish that people pledged to patreon specifically to get NCR. A look at when NCR peaked to other 100thousand proves that


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:05:01
content:
  Let me cite the definition: "A rug pull in the crypto industry is when a development team suddenly abandons a project and sells or removes all its liquidity."


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:05:50
content:
  The developer team might have abandoned Neos, but they didn't have the ability to sell or remove all the liquidity of NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:05:54
content:
  I did receive all the NCR, but, as far as I know, the other part that was meant to go to developers, did not


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:06:20
content:
  Karel hasn't abandoned Neos, and even though he had the ability to remove all the liquidity, he did the opposite and provided liquidity by buying back


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:12:25
content:
  I know very well, that Resonite won't be the new metaverse for at least two reasons. It lacks what it needs to be a new metaverse and there are actors who shouldn't even be in control of a metaverse


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:17:36
content:
  Because, holding for one year, no financial gain taxes. But staking it and I have to hold for ten years for that same benefit


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:20:20
content:
  Well, I lost on NCR that I got from Patreon, but that was a perk and not actually bought, even though I like to officially say that I bought that NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:22:47
content:
  I could have made a middle 5 figure sum if I had sold it during the buy backs. I'm still annoyed that I didn't. Would have been very helpful, even though I'd have paid half of it as taxes when I realized that amount back then


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:23:12
content:
  I think NCR would be much better off if not for the existential concerns over it for so long. I compare it to MANA which holds much higher despite not going as high as NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:25:28
content:
  I know there is one of these decentralized metaverses that have a DAO, which effectively has a single dictator now


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:26:25
content:
  decentraland has a crypto-centric community and uses for its token, but on the other hand Neos is the better game


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:27:06
content:
  So, my original plan was that I would just keep subscribed to patreon and slowly build more currency over time, at the worst, the currency wouldn't suffer inflation, so it would keep its value


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:27:11
content:
  so its hard to day where it would be, but I think if there was no turmoil it'd be around $.5 I recon


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:27:28
content:
  And then one day when Neos was really big in the metaverse space, I had spending money and I could use it for stuff in it or whatever


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:30:17
content:
  There are phrases in the license that makes me think, that recreating content creation tools inside UE5 is against the terms


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:31:02
edit_date: 2023-10-11 12:31:20
content:
  That's even a completely different matter, which would make the UE5 client itself unsuitable for film production


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:33:09
content:
  Whatever UE5 client there might be, it'd have the same limitation as Helios. Maybe it could make sense to get Helios as the Neos Metaverse client of the future?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:46:32
content:
  Where a will there is a way. Create your own systems, use Unreal just as a rendering Core, as Neos did


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:48:26
content:
  Yes it is. Open sourcing the entire project including InEditor Tools is not allowed. Solely using a custom version of Unreal it certainly is. What you are not allowed tondo is copy existing Editor Only tools


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 12:54:58
content:
  Im not too familiar with unreal yet, but atleast its a pro-metaverse company and its a powerful engine


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 15:49:39
content:
  Careful looks like you're spreading FUD while holding NCR, intentionally dropping its value and all that. Try not to sue yourself


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 16:08:54
content:
  Ayo if anyone here’s lost money due to CDFT let me know so I could tell you

  If your car warranty is out of date you may be approved for an extended warr-


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:08:53
content:
  There is language in the UE5 licence that prohibits the distribution of "Engine Tools" with your product, wherein "Engine Tools" are defined as:
  (a) editors and other tools included in the Engine Code; (b) any
  code and modules in either the Developer or Editor folders, including in object code format, whether statically or dynamically linked; and (c) other software that may be used to develop standalone products based on the Licensed Technology.

  There is language about how these sort of tools have to be distributed:
  "Any public Distribution (i.e., intended for Engine Licensees generally) which includes Engine Tools (including as modified by you under the License) must take place either through the Marketplace (e.g., for distributing a Product’s modding tool or editor to end users) or through a fork of Epic’s GitHub Unreal Engine Network (e.g., for distributing
  source code)."

  As it stands, the UE5 licence doesn't really seem to support the assumptions of Neo's workflow, as it is formulated with more of a traditional Product and GDK/Mod Kit separation in mind.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:18:13
content:
  Which isn't to say that something couldn't be worked out, just that editors are explicitly called out in the licensing terms as having to be treated in a way that Neos does not currently treat them. Which is enough for me, personally, to side-eye relying on the technology. Especially when Godot and O3DE are like, right there.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:18:35
content:
  Like, I read all of that and I don't interpret it as in-game tools for building, or even anything like Logix. It sounds like the line is drawn with tools out of game. You can make games inside Neos but they're still inside Neos and can't be packaged up outside of it, afaik. Atleast thats how it sounds to me at a glance


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:19:59
content:
  It says editors for your game. You could argue technicalities, but again, I don't think it's worth it when there are other tools available hat don't have to rely on specific legal hermenutics to be in compliance.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:21:20
content:
  I am also always in the mindset of "I don't trust Epic and Unity, they will stab you in the back" so, there is that :P


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:25:22
content:
  building on a foundation that can be shook like with unity isn't really aligned with the principles I want in the metaverse

  but atleast Epic has powerful tools and its a metaverse believing company


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:27:46
content:
  They are a fortnight believing company, sure, I won't argue against that. I really don't like when people call fortnight/roblox metaverses though.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:31:00
content:
  I don't either but it makes sense to thinknof then that way. From their view it makes more sense to take a successful game that people socialize in and transition it into a metaverse, or connect it to a metaverse, than trying to build one from scratch


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:37:07
content:
  It makes sense from the perspective of someone trying to argue that games are the native metaphor for the metaverse. I don't really think that's the case. Honestly I still see the metaverse as an extension of hypermedia, and I'd probably be more comfortable using 'cyberspace' but i recognize it's a bit of a dated term and the zeitgeist likes Ms for some reason :3

  Roblox and Fortnight have a specific marketing goal with their attempts to spin their platforms as metaverses. Nvidia is probably a bit closer to what I would be discussing when using the term with their push to standardize USD, etc as cross-platform standards.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:42:34
content:
  Im probably partial to parts of tbe metaverse neing natively games. I guess because I play games and it just makes me think "well the combat system is in place" concerning that place and the cpmbat systems I've played in other "metaverse" like SL or VRC have been sloppy experiences


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:43:34
content:
  I also think standard for resolving conflict aren't thought of as much when ppl brainstorm metaverse ideas


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:44:46
content:
  Me too when I was an edgy thirteen year old. Idk I really tried to rewatch it recently it didn't hold up at all


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:45:03
content:
  of course and theyre usually bad, and there's something of legitimacy when you use the world's native one instead of being like "oh yeah lets step outside and load -mycombatsystem of course-"


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:45:05
content:
  Parts of it, sure. Hypermedia needs to extend to be able to address games as media to realize its potential. But it also needs to be able to address encyclopedias and film libraries.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:46:26
content:
  Yea kinda think of there was a standardized one people would just exploit it anyway by building weapons with insane stats


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:49:20
content:
  Like, we need consistent and formal machine ontologies that can encompass those ideas. But I think it's a bit silly to be like "Well, clearly the metaverse is going to be using CS-Go tactical gameplay over COD-like."

  One arbitrary system being proffered as like 'the metaverse' means that expression is limited and can't encompas everything that could otherwise be expressed by those ontologies.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:49:21
content:
  I played one in SL and the sim sold a special sword for 1k linden, the only one that xould life steal. every other sword was just plain


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:50:53
content:
  I don't see multiple game systems co-existing but not necessarily seamlessly interacting as a bad thing, I would view that as the goal.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:50:56
content:
  I think of it as like, incorporating things people understand. Maybe a better example is a pokemon battle, because another entity handles the balancing of those creatures, etc and generally people know how to play it


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:55:10
content:
  So I get what you're saying but sl you can lock your lsl up better than logix/pf and if the world/system was the only place to get weapons maybe. But even official large games like Pokemon deal with the issue of hackers spawning in shinies and giving them weird op movesets


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:55:26
content:
  Actually, when I was first introduced to Neos I remember someone told me that there was some kind of funky licensing you could do to get permission to make standalone distributable versions of games or things made in Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 18:58:08
content:
  Hell if you did it correctly both platforms can push variables out. You could make a cross platform mmo


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:05:34
content:
  Oh, I like card games. I'm not too crazy about trading card games, but that's more like not enjoying micro-transaction driven game design.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:08:48
content:
  I love MTG honestly, It just pains me how inaccessable some levels of play are. And yeah, the perverse incentives are weird. But it's amazingly fun to mess around with litteral decades of interlocking core mechanics and fiddly one-off ones.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:09:01
content:
  That's why I like to play them with proxy cards or simulated drafts. Keeps things fair in terms of money gap


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:09:57
content:
  MTG is one of the pure joys of tabletop game design IMO. Just watching language interact through little scraps of paper.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:11:29
content:
  I'm so done with MTG, too much wrong with it, too much greed and creatively bankrupt design and I can't stomach it becoming the funkopop of games with these cringe crossovers


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:12:42
content:
  I still pop in occasionally for Unhinged, etc. sets but I haven't followed meta seriously since zindikar.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:14:14
content:
  They formalized EDH around that time into Generals and it frankly sucked all fo the joy out of the last format I enjoyed :<


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:15:13
edit_date: 2023-10-11 19:15:25
content:
  mtg is nothing if I can't enjoy the imagination of being a wizard not.. playing with cards of exhausted popculture slop. I get mocked for taking a stand against it but why should unimaginative people get to invade on that space?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:17:07
content:
  I get that. I'm sure Appendix N could have been ridiculed as pop culture slop back in the day, but it hits different when suddenly we need to extend cognitive dissonance to Dr Who showing up.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:17:19
content:
  If you hate them beat them and take their cards. Collect all of them. Bring them off the market. Make them hella valuable. Resell. Profit.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:17:43
edit_date: 2023-10-11 19:18:46
content:
  It's almost like people coming into an imaginative and creative space just looking for a quick buck can really ruin things, eh?


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:22:41
content:
  I just liked EDH for the ridiculously Rube Goldberg like engines people would come up with. The limitations of the format made for frankly hilarious builds. It never felt super competitive to me until after it got accepted as an official format, and then it was back to feeling like legacy, but with a twist.


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:25:42
edit_date: 2023-10-11 19:25:47
content:
  "Oh everyone knows what machine ontologies and Appendix N are, i can just drop those phrases without preamble"


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:31:19
edit_date: 2023-10-11 19:34:49
content:
  (For context, machine ontologies are basically machine readable... models of truth? okay, that one I can't explain easily, but I blame philosophers. Appendix N is just a lot of books and stuff Gary Gygax, the guy who made D&D listed as good source material for running the game)


type: message
date: 2023-10-11 19:34:37
content:
  The curse of actually getting excited over stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework is that there is no way I can explain to someone not already pretty deep into my field why it's exciting or necessary.


type: message
date: 2023-10-12 19:39:42
content:
  Actually it literally talks about distribution of tools as edited by you. Which would be the inspector and anything else.


type: message
date: 2023-10-12 19:43:06
content:
  a) tools that are included in the Engine Code, the actual tools (you cant ship the "actual" tools in the engine)
  b) tools that modules Developer or Editor folders (both are not present in Shipping Builds)
  c) software that is "based" on the Licensed Technology


type: message
date: 2023-10-12 19:45:59
content:
  "modified" not created. It also states additionally. That you can get inspired by the UE Source Code but not copying it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-12 21:01:14
content:
  Defined doesnt mean it is. Even then, we are talking about Engine Tools, tools that are not going to be used.


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 14:36:03
content:
  Wow lol so even though its a "brand new platform" they kept you banned. Sounds kinda like a team that holds personal grudges.


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:31:31
content:
  Lol still kinda funny. Its like if i was banned from McDonald's and the owner quit and a place next door opened up called mcsnergals and im banned from there and never stepped foot in the place


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:35:59
content:
  You gave an example where that makes total sense

  If you assaulted one of my staff in one location I wouldnt want you in again even if i open up a new shop under a new company or name


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:55:30
content:
  Moderation team themselves said, that depending on the circumstances, they might transfer single bans over


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:57:18
content:
  Also given what that ban might have been, you might want it to carry over and maybe even extend on other platforms as well. Talking about certain kinds of bans, not this ban inparticular


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:58:04
content:
  An example for another things that you'd want to carry over to other places is a ban from all casinos or gambling places


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 15:59:09
content:
  weird, that I found reasons that have to do with addictions, I don't know what reason that one specific ban had though


type: message
date: 2023-10-13 16:23:47
content:
  I made sure the mods new i was in game and to transfer. The ban transfered reguardless. I can appeal at 18 / 52 days


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 04:57:58
content:
  Andrea is actively responding to Neos emails, I just don't think they bother with this Telegram anymore.


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 06:37:49
content:
  Why a prototype of the mtc imported into unreal and a web browser UI was so hyped up by them will never make sense to me.


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 06:38:28
content:
  It's not just that they've not shown anything important to a platform like neos functioning, it's that they're acting like they have


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 06:47:55
content:
  If we are quiet it means we are working. We're getting staking ready and will share some preview videos from the Cooper’s Planet soon.
  Also, by early next week you'll be able to buy Neos storage with NCR through your Neos account interface.☺️


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 07:11:25
content:
  The UI is just as important part of the development as any other. It is much easier for new users to navigate in the platform where the UI is consistent, simple and doesn’t feel like you've taken a trip back to the '90s. 😁And all is of course work in progress. We are preparing other parts of UI, and we plan to roll these out in stages. 
  We will next introduce things like a world browser and new contact panels, integrated in Unreal and of course on the web.
  You might not be able to enjoy all functionalities immediatelly, just like with the current home or inventory screen but we will be gradually adding more. 😊


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 07:21:28
content:
  That completely misses the point I'm making. You're completely avoiding even mentioning the base functionality that makes the game you're trying to create possible, instead trying to direct people's attention away from it, using the fancy web UI as a distraction.


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 07:53:56
content:
  It is absolutely not what I am doing but I do understand that it might be percieved that way. 
  I am simply focusing on highlighting more immediate updates that will be coming as I was asked on why a prototype of MTC was shown with the UI in Unreal. 

  The other sides of development are of course in place and we are working towards solutions outlined in the Neos Whitepaper. Release notes and other dev updates that someone mentioned earlier are also a great idea down the line.


type: message
date: 2023-10-14 17:51:34
content:
  A new UI is nice and all, and yeah it's important, but you're completely losing your chance to have early adopters and creators start working with the systems early so that there's knowledgeable people around that know what the platforms capable of, and to provide feedback on functionality.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 09:46:08
content:
  So, what are your plans for UGC moving forward (and for the "metaverse built from within" concept outlined in the whitepaper)? 

  Unreal by terms doesn't allow for what Neos was known for, and it doesn't seem like you have anyone left who can work on FrooxEngine.

  A new UI is nice and all, and important, but if you can't ever upgrade the core architecture, what is the future for Neos? Just the coin?


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 09:49:19
content:
  Your daily active users seem to be hovering in the 10-20 range, and that's a generous estimate. As I'm writing this, SteamDB reports TWO ACTIVE USERS currently in Neos. Total. Period. You're also hovering around a 59% approval rating. What are your plans to counteract both of those things?


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 18:28:19
edit_date: 2023-10-15 18:32:27
content:
  Are you guys working on the webp vulnerability? its been like a month and this issue still exist in the program on the website version. .—-.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 18:32:37
content:
  Adding in NCR and NCR UI work instead of Priotizing fixing a potential vulnerability (wich can be fixed in 1hr)
  Seems almost malicious doesnt it?


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 18:43:08
edit_date: 2023-10-15 18:44:56
content:
  URGENT: Critical libwebp Vulnerability Patch for Neos

  Neos uses a library called FreeImage which is impacted by a critical libwebp vulnerability (CVE-2023-5129 / CVE-2023-4863).  Frooxius has patched FreeImage and has provided the source code on the YDMS GitHub. https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

  Below you will find a copy of FreeImage.dll which has been compiled from the patched source above. You must replace all copies of the FreeImage.dll file in your copy of Neos in order to mitigate the vulnerability. Alternatively, you may use the FreeImage.dll file from your Beta copy of Resonite.

  We highly recommend that you apply this patch immediately before using Neos.

  Patch Instructions for Steam

      Open the Steam Library page for Neos, then click on the gear and choose Manage -> Browse local game files.
      Overwrite the FreeImage.dll file located in the following paths with the patched dll.


       Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
       Tools
       Tools\AdminX
       Tools\Minecraft2Neos

  Patch Instructions for Standalone (downloaded from neos.com)

      Browse to the install path of your Neos standalone, substitute C:\Neos with the path you installed Neos to.
      Overwrite the FreeImage.dll file located in the following paths with the patched dll.


        C:\Neos
        C:\Neos\app\Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
        C:\Neos\app\Tools
        C:\Neos\app\Tools\AdminX
        C:\Neos\app\Tools\Minecraft2Neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 18:43:52
edit_date: 2023-10-15 21:18:25
content:
  Why isnt this in Pinned msgs Karel  @malooniac ? this is a huge vulnerability wich still havent been patched.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:32:36
edit_date: 2023-10-15 23:35:38
content:
  (Not a lawyer, and certainly not anyone in here's lawyer): But really, don't do this. FWIW, I am fairly certain that deliberately exploiting vulnerabilities to patch the same vulnerability is one of those things that's just not legal unless you're like... the government, and it's gone through the appropriate legal review processes, and when the weighted balancing of potential harms to benefits is applied, the overall scale tips in favor of concrete benefits (think: taking down a botnet, or something). There's too much variability between systems to account for all specific installation types, and in the event that things went pear-shaped with the exploit which then overwrites the DLL with a patched version, the using the argument of, "Oh, but I was using this exploit to fix the exploit!" as a defense more-likely-than-not wouldn't hold much weight, and any legal consequences of any deleterious effects on end-users' systems would be solely on the creator of the ""exploit fix"".

  That's my two cents, at least. Just leave it be. If the Neos Foundation chooses to update the Freeimage.dll file in—minimally— the stand-alone distribution, repacking the setup .exe is, or should be, dead simple, and no more than perhaps thirty minutes of total time (if that) to rip any copies of the vulnerable DLL out, and shove the newest version in.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:42:09
content:
  Not a lawyer, but is a company liable for dmgs if they leave an exploit open for attacks on thier program? We can only assume its intentional by now if they haven't patched this issue by now.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:46:26
content:
  NAL but damages would have to occur first and not trying to be that guy but the userbase has dwindled to the point that if you did get attacked I'd be surprised.


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:55:28
content:
  10 users who can still be hit by this exploit by someone who wants to make "revenge " on its users, we know this have been done before with the tail root hack,
  Beside there still gotta be a duty of care from the company Right?


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:56:50
content:
  Why leave an vulnerabilitie open for attacks on thier software. I honestly don't get it at this point unless it's deliberately and out of malciuesness


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:57:49
content:
  I'm not trying to be put in a place to defend them I was just saying I think it's unlikely. Also unlikely they'll release an update before the new client imho. And IDK if either one of them addressed tailroot I think that was handled in community wasn't it?


type: message
date: 2023-10-15 23:59:26
content:
  Still, if they are making an new launcher, just remove the old one from the site and put out a banner that says "new launcher releasing shortly"


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:00:33
content:
  Word but they haven't even pinned the community fix in here. I don't think they're worried about it enough to be bothered.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:01:09
edit_date: 2023-10-16 00:01:33
content:
  Otherwise they are advertising an launcher with a known vulnerabilitie on it, dont they? And distributing it


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:02:32
content:
  You're not wrong, I think Andrea commented on it once asking if VRchat had updated it or something like that. But I smoke a lot of weed, and I can't find the post so I don't want you to think that's a quote or anything.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:04:44
content:
  Again not sure, all I remember was a comparison that was seemingly valid and a dismissal but again I do drugs lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:05:51
content:
  i agree - but it's not just the launcher itself they'd be replacing, it's everything. basically all they have left is their coin. They don't have a game, a platform, an engine, anything. They probably don't have even the legwork on a new platform to replace the old one


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:06:13
content:
  That being said I can only imagine deving for a game like this would be exhausting as the majority of the community are tech experts or super users. You're going to catch flack from someone for every decision you make.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:09:09
content:
  Stop smoking weed, if 90% of the industry fixed this vulnerability within the hour and thier excuse is "we don't see it as an issue becuse every decision we make gives some flack"


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:10:17
content:
  the real reason, genuinely, is that they can't. like physically they cannot. FrooxEngine went with Froox; this is the clear reason the whole gamified mining demo was made in Unreal, not in the current Neos FrooxEngine client.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:11:38
content:
  Step 1, delete neos launcher from thier platform
  Step 2, put up a banner " new launcher coming soon"
  Step 3. rewrite the engine from scratch,


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:14:17
content:
  the current engine took ~17 years to get to its current state (it started life in 2014). good luck remaking that in any feasible timeframe for viability


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:15:49
content:
  cooper's planet is a mining game built in unreal. hardly a social vr platform, let alone a "metaverse built from within" like the whitepaper describes


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:17:10
content:
  they really genuinely don't have a platform anymore - they don't have access to a codebase to make new changes, all their userbase (that karel and andrea both hated) are gone, they have maybe one other engineer now, who was hired mostly for crypto stuff?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:20:02
content:
  But if what they're claiming is true idk I'm curious enough to stick in a telegram. I've already uninstalled the current client, I needed the space but if the unreal client does come out I'll try it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 00:31:38
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:09:08
content:
  Like, for me the thing is - this was easily preventable. The reasons the development team wanted to pivot away were made very clear - the crash hurt a large amount of community members, and the coin was poorly implemented and conceptualized in a way that directly caused that (being both a funding and utility coin). Karel trying to stronghand development into focusing on crypto payments instead of improving the platform in other ways, bypassing their laid out roadmap and making hires not once discussed with Froox, was completely against what the team was trying to build. 

  Instead of listening to reason, Karel doubled down on a singular vision of crypto, and crypto only, as the focus of what Neos was. At every turn, he was hostile, threatening legal action if his vision wasn't met, and calling the community that gave the platform any viability or worth "degenerates". His only interest in Neos was the crypto community in this Telegram chat.

  Whether Neos lives or dies is irrelevant to me now. Neos will never be what it was designed to be. But now that his entire team basically has walked, due to their own actions, I have been curious to see what their plans are or reactions to it have been. So far the answer has been... deny it is even happening and deflect any criticism with substance with weird emotional ploys


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 06:45:56
content:
  Its insane how re-written history is with these people. Karel didn't try to strong-arm a crypto vision, if anything cryptobros were complaining he wasn't focused enough on it when he said he wouldn't sell virtual real estate


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 06:47:21
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:10:11
content:
  All Karel really tried to do was protect the people he sold the coin to, something every other dev felt sociopathically OK with fcking over


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 06:49:58
content:
  The biggest thing I actually wanted for years was UI overhaul by a professional UI designer for Neos to be more easily used by beginners. That will help a lot. Also encoder for desktop and browser sharing and Neos Store.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 06:53:38
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:11:10
content:
  Yes crypto features such as automated withdrawhals and deposits are quite low hanging fruit and prerequisite to Neos Store. Would be nice to have those sooner. Calling my vision of Neos crypto centric is silly. My vision was always for Neos to be used by orders of magnitudes more people. Certainly not all of them using crypto.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:07:07
content:
  As you know NeosVR client is not managed by us, it was never handed over. Neos.com is hosted by webflow.com I highly doubt that they have such a security issue. Contact their support with details but it sounds like FUD to me.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:08:29
content:
  If the client isn't managed by you, then the right step would be to remove it from the website and add a banner for "new launcher coming soon" ?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:13:35
content:
  It’s the latest version of the client, not sure how removing it would help. Would be interested to know what security vulnerability you think it has. So far I’ve heard that the website neos.com has a security issue for a long time which sounds like a clear nonsense given the popularity of the host and the traffic it manages.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:13:48
edit_date: 2023-10-16 07:14:41
content:
  Patch Instructions for Standalone (downloaded from neos.com)

      Browse to the install path of your Neos standalone, substitute C:\Neos with the path you installed Neos to.
      Overwrite the FreeImage.dll file located in the following paths with the patched dll.


        C:\Neos
        C:\Neos\app\Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
        C:\Neos\app\Tools
        C:\Neos\app\Tools\AdminX
        C:\Neos\app\Tools\Minecraft2Neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:14:46
content:
  Did...you not hear about the massive exploit from a couple weeks ago? Literally everything on the internet updated to patch it. Including web browsers themselves.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:15:31
content:
  I checked yesterday, and this weblib vulnerability is on the stand alone client, wich is hosted on neos.com


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:16:49
content:
  Ok that means the client has the issue not the website. Is there a new version of the NeosVR client we can put on the website instead?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:18:32
content:
  Neos uses a library called FreeImage which is impacted by a critical libwebp vulnerability (CVE-2023-5129 / CVE-2023-4863).  Frooxius has patched FreeImage and has provided the source code on the YDMS GitHub. https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:19:45
content:
  Awesome, so remove the client with a security vulnerability on your website then? It's the right thing to do, or it would be call for negligence?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:24:06
content:
  I think so as well. It will take some time but we will manage without and will be even better when we do.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:25:05
edit_date: 2023-10-16 07:25:28
content:
  But the issue White Derg is bringing up is the downloader from Steam/Neos website downloads the vulnerable version of NeosVR


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:27:10
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:31:47
content:
  And I really mean I don't think they want to go open source. they want to pretend like they intend to for clout, but in reality they love the control, they'd rather build some outdated SL clone they can lord over, is the impression I get


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:32:06
content:
  but afaik there's no way to update the steam build? I believe its been said froox still has control of Neos' steam account


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:35:16
content:
  That would be up to Valve. However if there is not a newer version to update to then there’s not much point of involving them.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:36:03
content:
  Afaik you can create a newer version with the patched files that people posted. So it is a matter of accessing the steamworks account.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:40:04
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:33:56
content:
  Sounds like a good idea will check with our devs whether we can tell the new files are ok. Pretty pathetic Froox didn’t push this update if it’s basically already done. What a pathetic behavior. Certainly not the first case but certainly one of the more obvious and user facing.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:42:24
edit_date: 2023-10-16 07:42:54
content:
  The new files are opensource so you should be able to verify what they do. Is it a good idea to do so, but at the same time it is important to gain acess to the steamworks account if you dont have that to be able to actually push the update to steam. When it comes to updating the build that is downloaded from the website then just updating these files will fix the issue. No source code from original Neos should be required.
  (Just as far as I know, not a Neos dev myself 🤷‍♂️)


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:46:08
content:
  Looking at the CVE there is a possibility of this getting exploited for remote code execution (attacker being able to run anything on the machine) which would be a very serious problem that could affect the whole PC, not just Neos.
  This is very theoretical and I dont think there is an actual exploit for Neos at the moment, but that should not mean security bugs are not serious.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:53:21
content:
  The patch for the vulnerability has been provided already, it is on GitHub. It doesn't even touch FrooxEngine. The patch is replacing the FreeImage library. You have all the resources available to you to replace this one single file in the steam and web launcher versions of the NeosVR client. Not doing anything of this with the utmost highest priority is negligence.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:56:21
content:
  If nobody from here has acess to any of the steamworks accounts then its a matter of contacting valve, the sooner the better.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:56:44
content:
  Also pretty sure there are people in this chat with enough knowledge to create the fix both for website and the steam build after access is gained.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 07:58:02
edit_date: 2023-10-16 07:58:35
content:
  As publisher it should be possible to regain access to an account that allows publishing. It might already be in Karel's possession and he doesn't know it


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:00:45
edit_date: 2023-10-16 08:01:07
content:
  It's rude to accuse a developer who already left the company to not doing anything, it is no longer his job. You should be happy he provides the fix for the vulnerability as a simple file to replace in the release.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:01:49
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:35:58
content:
  And not even asking for a consultancy fee, as other smart people who left a company would do in this case


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:10:10
content:
  he was selling NCR since 2018 or so, all that time building his code and then when it was time to leave it wasn't enough that he wanted to leave with full control, he had to spend 2 years disparaging those people who sunk money into funding his dream project


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:11:45
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:35:49
content:
  those NCR holders didn't deserve to be dragged into the fued, he trampled on others and then scoffed at them to get to where he is... and to say he deserves a consulting fee is just fcking bonkers lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:12:03
content:
  Imo either Karel or someone here should take ownership over Neos, or it should be discontinued or at last clearly stated that is it not maintained.
  No point in fighting over what happened in the past as that will not solve the current situation.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:12:14
edit_date: 2023-10-16 08:13:49
content:
  I don’t think so. It’s rude not to hand over things properly to new devs. Me and Neos did so much for him, basic human decency is probably too much to ask.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:13:09
content:
  It's not really over though. You don't screw people over and then say "you're being weird, lets forget the past"


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:16:04
edit_date: 2023-10-16 08:19:06
content:
  why didn't you persue legal action? NCR was being sold for years, helping fund Neos servers and paying to keep the lights on so he can work building his dream project.Then in 2022 he announces he wants to remove the product he was partner in selling to everyone


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:17:16
edit_date: 2023-10-16 08:20:22
content:
  and the devs were making discussion threads in the discord like "brainstorming ways to remove NCR from Neos"


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:23:36
content:
  well the note is that they were taking part in those threads and entertaining the ideas. 

  At the time, they were positioned as devs of Neos.

  They never once said "don't worry, NCR we sold you is a part of Neos. We're not gonna rugpull you". Instead the attitude was " Hmmm maybe we will remove it. Interesting ideas."


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:24:18
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:38:37
content:
  To turn on people you sold something to like that the moment they aren't serving to be footstools toward your personal goals is horrendous


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:26:28
content:
  was simply askig if you were referring to the CDFT since there was other things you couldve been talking about


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:27:14
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:03:26
content:
  Yeah I think it’s super fucked up behavior as well not sure why a lot of people support it. We explored the legal options, would be probably a long battle with uncertain result. Not sure it is worth it, putting our energy into building a better future for Neos instead might be better use of our energy and funds.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:30:01
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:39:38
content:
  Yes devs received a lot of NCR through the CDFT token converting to NCR over time. They were the most active sellers from what I’ve seen. Beyond my understanding not sure whether to spite me or just greed. Doesn’t matter water under the bridge. I have to focus on positive stuff.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:30:06
content:
  Personally while a good end would have been obviously favorable

  I dont see why someone should not be allowed to quit work on a project


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:31:34
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:40:23
content:
  Quitting work is not the problem, sabotaging the company by not handing things properly to  employees who are staying is.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:32:57
content:
  I cant speak to how things were handled obviously since im not privy to such info but, yeah not handing accounts over properly is an annoyance for the company.

  However you should generally have processes in place to alleviate such, ancient knowledge is always a key issue in any company that you dont want to have


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:33:31
content:
  That would have been fine, but instead they engaged in a stalemate while basically making it publicly known that if Froox managed to boot karel, they considered the NCR funders to be an extension of him and they'd remove them too


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:34:20
content:
  All ive seen is them saying that everyone is welcome but i assume you mean there the potential hypothetical removal of NCR


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:35:36
content:
  and I mean they say that but at the same time they talk shit about "cryptobros" and talk about everyone who bought NCR as being these uncouth parasites theyre glad to be rid of


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:36:39
content:
  honestly I could stomach a coin being abandoned but its the insult the devs bore on the very people who funded them that still sits wrong with me to this day


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:37:40
content:
  I've not really seen anything vicious said by specifically the former dev team but i guess the unofficial server stands there as an archive to ever look at


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:37:51
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:41:26
content:
  but for those reasons I really do wish there'd be legal actions, atleast in return for that selfish behavior


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 08:41:54
content:
  Personally i guess i'll probs dip for now since, theres currently no new clent, the old client is unsafe. and that leaves me with nothing really to do.
  Stay safe, imma go work on writing tutorials


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:05:38
content:
  i respect this decision.
  but even its a long battle, battle must start. otherwise it would be breach of duty imo


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:07:19
content:
  u dont have to really fully get into legal issue. but there's some things at least to be done (also preparing future arguments)


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:14:54
content:
  Theres some superficial similiarties due to usng the same engine

  An example is Neos uses Logix

  Resonite uses FLux

  They are completely different languages with the only similiarity being both are node based


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:19:13
edit_date: 2023-10-16 09:19:26
content:
  Considering the lawsuit stuff has gone nowhere with IP, I'm under the impression the codebase isn't owned by Solirax


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:20:40
content:
  not a lawyer but that seems not likely since thats kinda like how CVR and VRC both use the same engine


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:21:10
content:
  it was two different opinions, until resonite really launched. Its not opinion but a actual business conflict


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:22:14
content:
  I remember what Karel said. He talked about ownership of the codebase was under Solirax and going to be addressed in the lawsuit etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:23:39
content:
  Wouldnt make much sense to since they are working on at least 1 client of ther own that seems to be using UE


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:24:32
content:
  Seeing at how they're at an impasse now and the wording over time has slowly shifted, it doesn't seem to me Solirax had much of a claim over the IP.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 09:26:09
content:
  Seriously, the wording shifted. It went from Solirax owns the IP to, "Froox should open source" etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 13:34:38
content:
  How much money did the old neos team make off of the NCR pump and dump.

  I have heard it was SIGNIFICANT.

  Then how much of that same money is being used to fund their new project?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 13:53:02
content:
  But if even the people who made it out with a good bag don't want anything to do with it anymore, what does that say about the product?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 13:55:06
content:
  If you can make a gajillion dollars, and then absolutely hate the source - does that maybe not warrant some sort of look into how screwy the system is? If even large bag holders want nothing to do with it?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:39:38
content:
  Yes completely unrelated. No connection what so ever. It is so greatly unrelated that you can migrate your neos account into Resonite.

  It's just the same code and developers. No relation at all.

  Only difference is now froox does not have to pay back anyone who invested into his product. How convenient.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:42:11
content:
  The reason you can migrate is because they wrote code specifically to be able to migrate, which moves your assets over and translates stuff to work with Resonite

  Its not the same code

  The old devs wouldnt have to be paying anyone thats a weird statement


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:45:41
content:
  One example of this is flux, it is entirely different from logix, which is one of the main things i bring up since I heavily have used both Flux and Logix. The two are in no way similiar under the hood besides both beng node languages, it would be like comparing UEs node flow to Logix


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:46:38
edit_date: 2023-10-16 14:52:37
content:
  Привет всем есть ссылку Resonite только телеграм? (Hello everyone, there is a link Resonite only telegram?)


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:48:11
content:
  Well the point  just brough up that i can say for certain is entirely different is basically the backbone of essentially ALL game logic so


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:48:30
content:
  Funny enough, today I've been working on a program that converts my Lightroom classic presets into LUTs for use in DaVinci Resolve. I'm not really sure why my program would be a problem because it migrates stuff.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:50:03
content:
  So it is fair to say the foundational bones of Resonite were taken from the Neos code. But some features have been updated since then such as Flux?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:51:00
edit_date: 2023-10-16 14:51:19
content:
  So, assuming they're both running on Froox engine, would it be fair to say that both Neos and Resonite were taken from Froox engine?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:52:09
content:
  Callng Flux updated is entirely incorrect since it literally is just a completely different language, in my eyes vastly superior to logix.

  They share some underlying code which is Frooxengine, essentially the engine the games run on, which is an engine made by Froox


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:53:37
content:
  An engine who's development was funded by a variety of supporters, including people who invested via NCR minting.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:54:28
content:
  Lmfao there's so much anger in here y'all should sell some of that NCR you're hodling to get some therapy, damn. If it was funded properly the devs wouldn't have quit.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 14:59:13
content:
  also to easily explain how "same" the code is

  I just drag and dropped Frooxengine.dll from Resonite into Neos

  My game is now permanently black screened


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:01:26
content:
  You know the game is obviously different to anyone who's spent the time to open an inspector in game. Hell almost anything with an onloaded logix node crashes.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:03:05
content:
  Im sorry man but you are a few months too late i am not invested enough in old drama to dig through all of karels messages for ya, ya gonna have to do your own digging. its been like 1 and a half years of time before this resolved and even more time of messages before that


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:09:33
content:
  Well, let us make the wild assumption that not a single byte of Eth was used to pay any bill whatever.

  So where did the funding come from?


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:10:28
content:
  against my word i did do the dig for you in small to see if i can find it quick
  https://i.imgur.com/XPqUo30.png


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:10:52
content:
  Server bills as an exampl were paid for by an account that was paid into via patreon as far as im aware


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:12:57
content:
  I think the story is that Neos servers were paid for by Patreon, but the development team were rarely ever paid.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:13:29
content:
  The team actually working on code wasnt yeah, non code dev members had some paid on an invoice basis rarely


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:14:09
content:
  And then, the team were contracted instead of employed, then further, because there was no proper contract in place for IP transfer, there wouldn't have been an IP transfer for work performed. Unlike if they were a regular employee.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:16:03
content:
  When karel says the devs were "paid" what hes talking about is CDFT incentives which do not constitute legal salary or payment


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:18:24
content:
  Also even if we accepted the incorrect asseessment that they were "paid" ... so what? payment is for services rendered not some blood oath


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:19:11
content:
  Fr fr I've built spreadsheets and applications for several companies. When I quit they don't get free updated.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:19:11
edit_date: 2023-10-16 15:19:21
content:
  I know for a fact that is not true. Froox was paid, even if it is not as much and as frequent as you would like.

  And some of the volunteers were paid. Talk of what and when invoices were paid and stopped being sent was highly debated earlier.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:19:59
content:
  I mean, some of the staff were paid. And they did get specific contract work for projects like the bHaptics world. I just don't think any of the work on the core engine was done for hire.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:21:48
content:
  I think 'coding' and 'dev' are ambigious terms here. I don't think anyone got compensated for their work on frooxengine, but they did get paid for the worlds and IIRC some of the projects on the educational side of things.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:22:49
content:
  Yeah its why i specifically mentioned the code devs and other devs a bit higher up, since none of the people who worked on code got paid for that

  The only exception i can potentially think of would be potentially Solirax edu stuff


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:24:24
content:
  Yeah. From what I recall frooxengine was litterally froox's demo platform, whereas Neos grew out as one of the largest projects utilizing it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:25:22
content:
  Yup, also this to me at least seems nonproductive to rehash, im more than happy to give info to peeps that came late but like, thats not the purpose of this TG, this TG is for Neos Credits discussion


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:26:40
content:
  Also they sayed they are working on storage payments irc through the website but... thats for an insecure client so


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:28:16
content:
  I mean, maybe we can use the inventory as generic cloud storage. With a sufficiently documented API many things become possible :)


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:31:02
content:
  I was expecting to be able to buy commissions or something one day through Neos with NCR, but, the creators seem to have left


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:31:51
content:
  yeah, but i've got all this free storage and ncr. and my neos inventory has no ingress/egress fees :3


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:31:59
content:
  yeah but its worth noting ncr was sold on patreon, thats what I keep saying over and over. like a soft ico on the side


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:33:44
content:
  Yeah the NCR patreon rewards were basically to incentivice people to pay into the ICO manually later by giving them a reason to take a look at it


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:35:46
edit_date: 2023-10-16 15:36:28
content:
  atleast karel confirmed what I was pretty sure on, in thst devs received cdft, a large amount apparently. or atleast large enough that karel says he thinks they were the heaviest sellers


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:36:40
edit_date: 2023-10-16 15:37:05
content:
  I wouldn't hold it against them for selling anything they could to get funds considering the stories of little cash on hand


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:36:44
edit_date: 2023-10-16 15:37:04
content:
  I mean regardless thats pretty meaningless since karel at least in his eyes saw that as payment, so why wouldnt they liquidate their money


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:40:42
content:
  and even if currency wise it could be classified as yknow, pay, since the company controls that currency that would go into very grey territory remniscant of company scrip


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:41:28
content:
  You're entitled to the minimum wage in the UK, regardless if you're a contractor or direct employee and what is considered payment in this criteria is specific enough to not consider stuff like stock, CDFT, crypto etc. as not a payment, at best just an agreement to provide it for some services rendered, still obligated to pay the minimum wage though.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:43:47
content:
  At least from what I understand under employment over here, it's very hard to hold someone accountable for any work provided if they haven't been paid the minimum wage. Which adds a whole other level to this mess.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:44:36
content:
  they probably didn't even have the funds to pay minimum wage to everyone who had their names stuck on the project, and each of them with varying degrees of involvement


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:46:23
content:
  afaik they were not employed by the czech one, there was no contracts wth it and the only tie is the joint ownership of the uk one


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:47:51
content:
  Thats so weird. Here in the states if you're a contractor you can quote whatever price you want for a project, and whatever compensation you want.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:48:45
content:
  I mean, it would seem there is *significant* amounts of code from Neos, given that it literally still has a lot of the same bugs from before. It's had some bits swapped out (Logix > ProtoFlux, ColorX implemented, Steam Audio updated, etc) but a LOT is still the same. Changing some bits does not make it entirely new.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:49:33
content:
  Ok so theres
  Solirax LTD i thinnk which is uk and joint owned
  A Solirax entitiy in Czech
  Solirax EDU
  and some others im rusty on this
  Czech entity handles the money afaik


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:50:35
content:
  don't think anyone can argue it is not essentially the same code from years ago. I thought the name changes like protoflux, etc were just formalities


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:50:55
content:
  I'm just remarking on the difference. It is unexpected to me for a contract to be affected in that way. I'm not just sort of curious how project bidding works in the UK.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:52:11
content:
  No proto flux is different you can run async or sync processes now. It's honestly kinda confusing for some logix users


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:52:17
content:
  Gig economy is one of the ways you can get around it in the UK, however, people have sued and got minimum wage too with it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:53:03
edit_date: 2023-10-16 15:53:15
content:
  I dont really wanna get into the borders of yknow "promoting" other stuff. but as someone who has deeply used both, calling the difference between the two languages a formality is heavily inaccurate


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:53:19
content:
  I dont think it makes sense to look at it from the perspective of hourly wage for a company that had no funds


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:54:40
content:
  I think with startups that dont have a profitable product, they offer some sort of stake in the company


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:56:57
content:
  Took a cursory glance at that kind of model and holy shit its a mess in the uk, i would not want to jump through all those hoops


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:57:41
content:
  I've been in start ups in the UK before, they still pay minimum wage, but just that and as you said, loads of stakes in the company


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:58:15
content:
  To me it sounds like they paid basically all they could. Becaude some people did get paid, and cdft was handed out in large amounts it seems. And the company warchest was small up until the cryto boom, at which poijt problems manifested and devs refused pay


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:58:24
content:
  This is UK guidance for PAYE
  https://www.gov.uk/guidance/non-cash-pay-shares-commodities-you-provide-to-your-employees


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 15:59:24
content:
  It's stuff left to accountants, the advantage here is that the company handles that and the employee doesn't have to do any of it


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 16:00:02
content:
  And if the company is in the wrong, it's up to the company to fix it, not the employee screwed at the end. Which is the opposite to the states where the IRS basically goes after for doing your taxes wrong


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 16:00:17
content:
  IMO legal action would need to come from the people who were sold NCR, since they put stake in the product


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 18:07:00
content:
  Yeah, I don't see the situation as criminal enough to justify piercing the corporate veil. I really doubt you could argue for personal liability.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 20:39:03
content:
  The content creators all left. The only people I see online now are people that wander in by accident or people checking back in to meme on what they find.


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 20:41:40
content:
  only reason i log in is to just. take in how much stuff has changed between neos and resonite and to see how quiet it went


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 20:47:37
content:
  Big same, tbh I don't even socialize in either I really just use it to experience old game worlds on VR but I'm edge case at best


type: message
date: 2023-10-16 23:00:37
content:
  worlds were many, projects were amazing. Nothing like anything else. Lots of promise to help make projects go to moon. Didn't know feud. Learned sad story. Only stake left.


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 05:53:30
content:
  C'mon orc this one could talk about how much butthurt y'all crypto homies have. I'm good to see both sides I just want entertained


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 11:50:02
edit_date: 2023-10-17 11:50:40
content:
  Hello all, just wanted to let you know that we have implemented and launched the functionality of purchasing storage for NCR from the web, so you should be able to do it comfortably from your account interface.😊️️️️ 
  We will keep an eye on any bugs but please let us know in case you experience any issues. I understand that this is not the most sought after update at this point but it will for sure make things easier from this point onwards.


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 13:02:36
content:
  Only 5 people were on. 10 including headless last night when I popped in to check. 100% hermit level though.


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 13:05:04
content:
  You need to use a lnl relay mod to connect to other people else it will give an error I think the official lnl relay was taken down 🤔


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 13:20:47
content:
  It does however require the host and connecting user to have NAT 1 or 2 so anyone with a strict NAT (NAT 3) cannot connect without the lnl relay


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 15:34:10
content:
  i only know of a mod that disabled the lnl relay which would be useless if the lnl relay is down anyways


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 15:44:29
content:
  i just tested it with the japanese user (they should have NAT type 3 and i can only connect through steam networking sockets
  the NAT punchtrough failed, lnl relay didnt connect but steam networking sockets did work so most players should have no issues with connecting to others except if they're behind a strict NAT cant use steam to connect (headless cannot use steam sockets) or they play the standalone/oculus runtime without steam running


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 15:54:26
content:
  There's also the IPv6 mod I wrote for users that are fortunate to have IPv6. I'm currently still supporting it for Neos for those who can benefit from it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-17 16:10:17
content:
  For those behind a strict NAT, it's been a very good quality improvement as they do not need to mess with tunnels, or use the LNL Relay. It does require that both parties use it, but it works great on the headless.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 12:32:01
content:
  I would use this, but I was told it tries IPv6 first, before IPv4 - I'd rather not have the experimental mod take priority over the normal connection, especially running over a third party relay. Wouldn't it make sense for it to fail over to IPv6 if 4 doesn't work?


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 12:34:33
content:
  The problem with SNS is that most proper servers won't have it, because it requires running the full GUI Steam client to function, which is impractical on a proper headless server.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 12:34:35
content:
  Not really. Almost all real word systems that have IPv6 implementation try IPv6 before IPv4. Including browsers, the socket open() when using a hostname in operating systems etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 12:35:12
content:
  When they have proper implementations, sure. But this isn't a proper implementation, it's a mod running through a random user's own relay. You see the concern there?


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 15:04:06
edit_date: 2023-10-18 15:04:11
content:
  You can disable it from Mod Settings to perform IPv4 only. Currently it does not have a preference for IPv4 over IPv6 as those that wanted the mod use it as they prefer IPv6.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 15:05:02
content:
  No it's been available for months and it's been used thousands of times to perform IPv6 connections. Resonite has some kinks, but they do not apply to Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 15:06:20
content:
  It's not really for people with good IPv4, Neos works well under IPv4 without it. It's mainly driven at those who have terrible IPv4 and good IPv6.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 15:06:56
content:
  If you add it to a headless, it will allow those with bad IPv4 an option to connect w/ having to use LNL Direct IP through Logix


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 15:37:00
content:
  I’ve noticed that when I migrated from Neos this meowning it used the usernames of my contacts as they were in Neos and not what they’ve been changed to in Resonite.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 17:09:47
content:
  But don't we want people with good IPv4 to run this mod so those who have no IPv4 can join their sessions, be it headless or just individual users? A bigger pool of sessions able to be joined.

  Using the tunnel broker you recommended me to use, with a server in a different country. I would dig not needing to toggle the mod to off every time I join a session, and then toggle it on every time I host a public session. Unless it tried IPv6 as a last resort for at least my own client.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 17:49:52
content:
  I mean it all depends, I mean as we know from the hermit levels, ~75% of users remain in private worlds. Their friend pools or people they hang out with already can connect with them, so IPv6 is moot. If you host public worlds or join worlds from members of the JP community, the IPv6 mod could benefit those connecting to you, or you yourself.


type: message
date: 2023-10-18 17:50:30
content:
  JP community as an example, but many Asian countries have limited IPv4, so IPv6 can benefit users from there


type: message
date: 2023-10-19 15:45:34
edit_date: 2023-10-19 15:46:36
content:
  i bet 2024 will be an amazing year for crypto projects.
  and neos should use this opportunity thoroughly.
   
  i want these as a ncr holder
  1. stake and all the promise to be realized
  2. new roadmap showing its full potential (Karel's version)
  3. investment and marketing plans
  4. Great CTO for Froox's replacement

  neos users have left, but still its way better than the other metaverse projects. We still have chance to thrive.

  thanks


type: message
date: 2023-10-19 17:23:52
content:
  So stake doesn't mean much to me because I don't understand it. Can one of the crypto people explain the concept to me?


type: message
date: 2023-10-19 18:18:36
content:
  I don't think this will be possible without a functioning platform, and a fancy web UI is, frankly, not a VR platform.


type: message
date: 2023-10-19 22:37:05
content:
  I am not a crypto people, but I'll take a stab at it:

  There are two basic mechanisms that most cryptocurrency projects use to try and prevent bad actors from manipulating the network: proof of work and proof of stake.

  Proof of work is what people mean when they talk about 'mining'. Everyone does the work, uploads their proof, and an incentive is randomly assigned. Because everyone who participates must do some level of computing work, it makes it difficult to spam the network with bad data. (this has been criticized as being environmentally unfriendly and a lot of the major blockchains have moved away from it with the notable exception of Bitcoin)

  The other method is staking. That is when you essentially put an amount of money in escrow in order to participate in the network. The idea is that it is still costly to try and spam the network with bad data because each node costs money. Essentially, by paying to verify a node, you receive some of the token each time the network does some work on your verified node, rather than submitting the work and hoping you get lucky.

  In the context of NCR, we're an ETH-20 token and not a unique blockchain, so staking in this context is less about verifying transactions and more a tactic to try and limit the liquid supply and drive up price. E.G. we will pay you interest to commit to not spending your NCR for X amount of time. In traditional finance this would be something like a Certified Deposit. Though it is worth noting in the context of a CD that capital is often used by the bank in order to try and invest to make back that interest obligation.


type: message
date: 2023-10-20 07:12:31
content:
  The project is very much alive and far from dead, and it's nice to see that some people here are recognizing the exciting possibilities that lie ahead, despite the challenges we are currently addressing.

  We will be working on some form of formal roadmap as I understand that it’s important for our community to be informed and to make sure we stay on the track with our vision. 

  You can expect to see staking as a key update early next year. Possibly around first week of January. We'll confirm the exact launch date closer to the time.
  For now we have some small teasers from Cooper’s Planet in production which we will share soon and also more updates on the UI will follow😊


type: message
date: 2023-10-20 11:18:53
content:
  Will any of the existing platform content be available via this new client that is in development? And what do you think is the ETA before it will be usable? As the current Unity client on both Steam and the website has a critical security exploit and thus shouldn't be used by anyone now.


type: message
date: 2023-10-20 11:19:32
content:
  As talking about staking is odd for a platform that now has almost no users and no (safely) usable client.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 10:11:01
content:
  The safety updates are unlikely to come to the current neos client on steam. There's the webp lib and there's another one found shortly after I believe, don't remember what that one was called.

  People ripped the lib from reso and slapped it into neos, it worked, the reso devs knew it would work, they also knew about half of the community they wanted were on neos they didn't go an inch out of their way to tell them that there was a security issue until several people asked about it, at a time when there was someone being malicious towards neos and reso, (altering their packet data from their client to appear as invisible and using that to delete stuff, mess with stuff with the devs unable to stop them)

  Then when someone else compiled the webplib from reso to neos to distribute instead of the blob from reso, the community gave them a weird amount of shit for it. I still don't really understand why. 

  The person who compiled the lib said several times to the moderators and former neos devs that they should do a ping about with some fixes since the community they claim to care for is vulnerable to these issues. Myself and others said the same and kept the issue present on the discord for a while just to try to let people know.

  The former devs and the mods did nothing to help. These are the people with the keys to neos on steam.

  That's just one thing but remember they didn't even update the YouTube downloader exe and that's just swapping out one exe for another. No work involved. 

  Karel or whoever at neos isn't 100% clean there either. The downloadable installer could have been updated by swapping out the files in the installer (a little hacky but it should work). Efforts to get the information should have been done since the steam account was made but whatever. My point is the people who could have easily applied the update, or at least actually tell people about it on the discord, didn't bother and didn't appear to care.


  However there is still a niggle that's annoying me, the money doesn't add up. The only way I see some things making sense is if the developers didn't take a paycheck in Fiat money, instead likely taking some NCR which Karel has said on the discord isn't money under tax law. Just to argue that they were not actually paid money in an attempt to claim the code from neos (now resonite) is theirs and theirs alone. (Look at prime saying he'll take a paycheck once the whole drama was settled but refusing it before) While selling their NCR for real money and even one of the devs dad's buying 10k NCR (or was it 100k?) when it was worthless and selling it when it was worth money, a dev that is now listed as a producer for reso. Hmmm a little sus to me. Not to mention a lack of legal action (no, I do not accept just talking to your own lawyer as legal action, that's just finding out where you stand legally and what your options are) 

  But hey, I'm just a rando passing through, what do I know? 
  And to pre-empt stuff, I'm not attacking anything, I actually just want what's best for neos and looking forward to seeing what happens to it (I have my own suspicion but that's too far out there to really get into)
  And in not trying to attack anyone personally.
  I'm just looking at the situation and information and trying to make sense of it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:33:53
content:
  Also pretty sure the devs have mentioned at some point that they were paid, but only in invoices - no contracts


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:35:55
content:
  Well simple, myself and others only asked for a ping with potential solutions that we offered and the leg work had been done, for the sake of doing the right thing for people they claim to care about.

  If someone needs to be paid to do the right thing, then they are the wrong people.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:36:58
content:
  I have to question how you expect resigned workers to still have the keys to update the game. The fix was publicly announced on the resonite discord - they do not work for neos, and can not update it at this point


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:38:43
content:
  Pretty much everyone who ever used neos moved onto greener pastures at this point, and they were notified just fine because the game they're working on and the game people are now playing is being updated by the resonite devs


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:39:17
content:
  I had never asked them to update it but they were the ones in the position to update what is claimed to be "a third party client"

  I asked them to let the people on the "unofficial" neos discord know with potential solutions.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:39:50
edit_date: 2023-10-22 11:40:05
content:
  And the fix was announced publicly on the main resonite discord - to 99% of the people who used to play neos


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:40:41
content:
  The code was uploaded because it had to be under the original license. They did not compile it nor even (according to prime anyway) test it under neos but thought it should work regardless.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:41:57
content:
  And you expect them - the developers who don't work for neos and have no obligation, and who currently have attracted approximately 99% of the current neos playerbase to resonite - to test it for a game that they don't work for, and the players who they currently have don't play


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:43:43
content:
  There's nothing stopping someone from fixing a vulnerability like this through sanitisation before it reaches the library


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:44:09
content:
  This chat is a waste of time since the whole situation is pretty much over and nobody plays neos anymore /shrug


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:45:51
content:
  Even if the libwebp thing had come out before resonite, I highly doubt neos would've been able to be updated anyways because A) None of the team members work for solirax except froox, and B) Froox resigned far before the libwebp thing was known


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:46:49
content:
  So I fail to see how they could've fixed a vulnerability they didn't know about while being resigned from the company


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:47:04
edit_date: 2023-10-22 11:47:28
content:
  Fair. 
  The vulnerability was discovered and disclosed before resonite was public. I'd say maybe half the beta were givin out at that stage. (That's a guess by feel, I don't have actual numbers) 

  A the lib was compiled and offered via the game jam people because they were still using neos for game jam since reso was not out yet.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:47:48
content:
  Not compiled by the game jam people though but I think they would have if not beaten to the punch by someone else.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:47:57
content:
  It still doesn't change the fact that froox wouldn't have been able to update the game due to being resigned


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:48:48
content:
  Like I feel like everyone loves to forget this fact, and assume that just because the devs used to do work for the game, that they still are obligated to even though they aren't employees, and the only real ""employee"" resigned some time ago


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:50:48
content:
  Cool. 
  I was only asking them to do what I felt was the morally right thing and actually disclose the issue on the neos discord.

  Guess that was too much to ask. /shrug


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:53:38
content:
  The neos discord is locked at this point, and none of the devs work there anymore.

  I am not evil simply because I don't shout into an empty room "Hey! Watch out!" when the rotting floorboard everyone got out of the way of falls down


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:57:02
edit_date: 2023-10-22 11:57:32
content:
  It's a mute point now for sure.

  I meant that I asked back then before reso came out, not now. Now it's someone else's problem. 

  To be fair, I probably wasn't very clear that everything I was bringing up is in the long past. I wouldn't ask them to do any pings or posts now since they have their own offering available to all.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:58:10
content:
  Also to address the NCR point - lots of people made out like bandits with NCR. There's a difference between cashing out the publicly available trading currency and being paid by the people you're working for


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:58:27
content:
  Everyone in the entire world saw the writing on the wall and that's why everyone cashed out so quickly - not just the devs


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:59:28
content:
  Sorry, ""currency"", because if even the people who got thousands of dollars out of the thing want nothing to do with it anymore, what does that actually say about the usability of it as a whole?


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 11:59:47
content:
  On the reso discord to tell people to update reso to version x, whatever number it was. And a post from the creator jam people made afterwards with a link to the updated I suppose community is the right title, dll file.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:00:21
content:
  Reports I hear are "Damn, it was such a nightmare, I almost sent it to the wrong address and lost it all" and in one case, actually did send it to the wrong place and lost like greater than 8k because of it


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:01:49
content:
  Or "I got hit so hard with taxes" or "It took forever to get out and by the time it actually processed it I had lost like 2k already" or "I had to actually literally ask a financial professional how to use crypto" etc. etc. because it's a complicated to get your shit out


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:02:21
content:
  That crypto though. 
  I've used it, spent it, earned it, etc. It was always super easy to make a mistake and send it to the wrong place with no recovery or undo options. It's the nature of the beast.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:03:09
content:
  And it's precisely why it isn't mainstream, and why those who learned about what it really meant to use it wanted out


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:04:29
content:
  It's basically turbo stocks with no safeguards, and a speedrun of why we have those safeguards in the first place


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:05:14
content:
  But to my original point - just because the team probably got a lot of NCR doesn't necessarily mean anything. A shitload of people got a shitload of money from NCR and wanted nothing to do with it after that


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:05:41
content:
  Honestly, I remember in Neos people would just use paypal for commissions instead of using the built in NCR system. I think it was driven more by the fact that doing paypal was literally just a couple of clicks to send money to someone and trying to convert money to NCR and back was overly complicated.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:10:00
content:
  Crypto was on a huge bubble once yes. Thankfully it popped and we can buy GPUs again without needing a second mortgage.

  My point about NCR wasn't that I blame the devs for wanting it gone, it's that I feel something isn't right with the money side of things and I'm just trying to make sense of it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:11:11
content:
  Yeah unfortunately, it's nature of the beast.

  Crypto is nice and all but people do get stung by the whole conversation to and from real.money thing and rightfully so. It is complicated and often quite lossy


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:14:21
content:
  I wasn't around during its high point and I would have loved to see how the buyback program worked. 
  I know I can read about it but it's different to do it.

  My personal warning bell with NCR is the word Ethereum. I feel like so many scams have used the Ethereum Blockchain that I just don't trust it anymore. 

  Pump and dumps hmmm could be standalone with their own forks or use the eth blockchain


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:16:12
edit_date: 2023-10-22 12:16:32
content:
  When NCR was doing well, the experience looked like this:

  Step 1: Get a Coinbase account
  Step 2: Buy ETH
  Step 3: Transfer ETH to an external wallet, while making sure I have enough ETH to cover the transaction fee
  Step 4: Go to Uniswap
  Step 5: Find the NCR/ETH pair
  Step 6: Find out the amount of NCR I would like to swap for
  Step 7: Get the in-game wallet address
  Step 8: Send NCR to in-game wallet with further gas fees.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:16:18
content:
  So yeah. I feel like the inclusion of the tron Blockchain can sometimes help a bit since it's always cheaper.

  I forget what it was but there was a coin I had and you could get the tron version or the eth version. Both were the same and held roughly the same value but trading on the tron network was much for affordable.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:16:58
content:
  And of course, trying to figure out how much money you spent before going through that process was really awkward and not precise.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 12:18:38
content:
  And I'm being really generous when I say "get a coinbase account" is a single step. Because commonly, you get asked to provide photos of yourself holding your government id etc.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:13:27
content:
  The discord was still unlocked then. If you cared about people knowing why didn't you make a post. And if it was really important to you why haven't you mentioned the fact that the hot fix has been linked like twelve times in here and they've yet to pin it. I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad at the old devs.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:14:52
content:
  Tbh coinbase could have it's own 6 or 7 seriously step tutorial tbh. Definitely time consuming at the very least


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:15:44
content:
  I brought it up on the discord a few times. I did come here about it but the creator jam people put out their post maybe less than an hour before hand


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:17:39
content:
  I also said that whoever at neos isn't clean and gave an example of how they could have put in a fix themselves.

  I don't use telegram much generally. Really just checking in here to see what's going on and the odd creator I follow. I think over half of the messages I've ever sent on telegram have been sent here


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:19:07
content:
  Ydm pushed a patch that works with a game they'd already quit deving for. I think this covers the bases plenty. The real issue here is why the current team has done nothing to highlight a fix.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:19:24
content:
  But still fair point. Hopefully people have it patched and the information is available to people sticking their head back into neos to see how it is after X amount of time.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:19:48
content:
  Doesn't matter according to the official neos team this is their only form of communication side from email. That discord was unoffical lol


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:21:00
content:
  I know that, so why couldn't the old devs done a ping or leave a notification somewhere? If it's unofficial then they don't have to work for neos to do that


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:28:23
edit_date: 2023-10-22 13:28:28
content:
  I suspect they gave all the resources to fix it and assumed the current devs would fix it in an official capacity


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:28:24
content:
  Because they left before the issue was found. They pinged official channels in order to give the new dev and the current owners a chance to fix it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:30:49
content:
  🤷‍♂

  Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.
  Besides how is the current neos team to fix the issue with froox and friends are holding onto login info to the steam?


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:32:33
content:
  steam works projects or companies are assigned to steam users, it can even be requested by a company using their official email


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:33:28
content:
  They're not responsible for fixing neos anymore, but they've done 3/4 the footwork anyway. I think that's more than enough.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:37:22
content:
  Yes indeed. 

  I do know a bit about how steam works on the dev side. I know that the neos people have had more than enough time to get into manage the neos VR on steam.

  But it does seem to be regarded as a third.party client at this stage by the neos people's. Which is a bit ahhh, a little BS but whatever.

  It does appear to be that both sides have left the neos files on steam to rot, with the people on the neos side keeping the servers alive.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:38:59
content:
  There's no third-party client. There are 2 official clients. The steam release and the website version. They've not updated either and don't plan on it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:40:19
content:
  Just posting a small screenshot because I am a dev on steam.  https://ash.tips/20231022133843BAdMx.png

  But yeah, I've had to recover access to games/companies before and it's really not that much effort, it's just a support ticket away and using an e-mail from the company domain.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:42:01
content:
  They're not updating because in their eyes it's a non issue. The only thing they're concerned with is Cooper's planet, staking, and the UI for some reason.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 13:50:54
content:
  Cool, I know they can recover and get into to manage the files. 

  I would like to remind people here that all I asked was for a post to be made on the discord and why wasn't it done.

  I did say how the neos people could at least patch the website files and gave an untested overview as to how.

  I did say that the old devs were in a position to update but also said on the discord that they could be foolish to touch the files on steam now. I don't know how they have things set up or what agreements have been made.

  I never said the old devs are guilty of *blank* just saying I felt it would be morally correct to leave a post on the discord with a link to work done for them by the community (ie, they could wash their hands of responsibility of it not working or being malicious) 

  I'm getting a little bored of this now and I'm off to do something else. Take that for whatever you choose


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 14:02:34
content:
  As far as I can tell the exploit is first mentioned in here a week after the team resigned but a week before they locked the unofficial discord. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything just trying to get the timelines proper.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 14:04:25
content:
  And actually digging thru the discord they did ping everyone. Medra did in the user creations with the patch.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 19:42:05
content:
  The discord has been abandoned and archived, which was properly announced by those who were running the discord.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:43:29
content:
  What is the plan for the dev team to boost the player count to make a crypto based game practical? Also whats the plan for fixing the current security vulnerabilities? I feel like a roadmap should be announced regardless of size vs only answering on q/a basis. Also whats the plan to recover the pr between the playerbase and dev team?


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:44:12
content:
  What we've heard is that you can buy storage with NCR and there will be a new client in Unreal Engine


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:47:47
content:
  Right now its nothing but people going at eachothers throats with the devs kinda just like sitting in the back reponding when they feel its convenient. I understand theyre busy with development but having a dedicated pr person is vital given the current state of upheaval.


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:50:22
edit_date: 2023-10-22 23:51:03
content:
  I mean anyone could say that to reassure someone. But lets assume there isba dev in the background. Wouldnt some sort of proof of progress or announcements be important?


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:52:02
content:
  Also wouldnt they want to steer towards protecting their current client given the massive hole in security seeing its just swapping a file?


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:52:03
content:
  Andrea says that the project is very much alive and far from dead, and that they have have some small teasers from "Cooper’s Planet" in production which they will share soon


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:52:53
content:
  Very much alive with a playerbase of 4 people online and a dev team who doesnt communicate. Righttttt


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:53:28
content:
  But lets assume it is alive and that the ignoring of security patches further damaging pr is the plan of action


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:57:19
content:
  You dont have a project without your playerbase. And starting from a completely new base makes the prior members who stuck around feel abandoned


type: message
date: 2023-10-22 23:58:01
edit_date: 2023-10-22 23:58:27
content:
  I can only give you the information they've provided. I suspect they don't really care too much about the previous users leaving the platform as in their view I think they believe, the platform doesn't seem ready for users to begin with.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 00:05:44
content:
  Either way we've got like 2 months and change before they'll have anything ready according to their last post


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 03:43:59
content:
  This community deserves better. They deserve a development team that shares their vision and is open about their process. They deserve a community management methodology that cultivates creativity rather than stifling it. They deserve people in charge of the project that aren't so myopicly attached to brand control that they won't even allow self-expression.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 03:44:45
content:
  Neos has utterly failed to live up to its mandate and I am furious for those who stuck around to see this.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 16:09:25
content:
  The announcement came way after the initial paperwork back in January according to documents posted by Karel iirc


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:07:31
content:
  lets assume the original devs were really in a legal bind and halted development of the engine until they were able to. When they dropped resonite finally wouldnt there be more proof of progress and distinction other then a UI swap?  looks to me like everything that was done to differentiat resonite from neos could have been done in a week or two with a good ui dev. there is no real core upgrades to show so it makes you wonder were they actually even doing anything to begin with or just doing nothing at all and blaming the other side.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:09:58
content:
  I have not actually dug depp to be totally fair BUT from what i saw it still suffered from the same issues of logix and also just basically looked like a reskin. but to be fair i need to give it more of a chance still. but i mean come one still cant do simple things like search nodes and components that everyone mods for for years anyway you would think all the QOL mods would have made it to this release


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:10:39
content:
  We can now run synced it asynchronous calls using flux. The update isn't something that's easily visible but it's there. A lot of backend stuff as I understand it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:11:29
content:
  So are you just relying on something someone told you changed and hoping they were right or do you understand the system enough to know there is a real change?


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:12:10
content:
  cause they could say they changed things and if you dont know how to really use proto and logix youd never know if they really did or not


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:13:37
content:
  Lmfao Check their discord there's tons of stuff there I'm not about to do this here. I'm already pretty sure I'm on thin ice


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:14:43
content:
  oh i have im in there but i have yet to see anything that wasnt already possible in neos and ive actually had a small performance decrease which im assuming is from the change in color space of the render engine


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:14:56
content:
  I also remember they were talking about the asset system no longer duplicating items that are already saved.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:18:29
content:
  see i still find it hard to believe tbh cause all of these "Updates" could just be then moving the system, they clearly just ported neos and had to make all new DBs and such and then dupe the olds with the migration tool and all that so all these "updates" could really be just "updates" to the currently system that isnt finished being entirely ported


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:21:38
content:
  no no lol its not about neos getting burned its about not just accepting what people tell me when my eyes and own logic show me otherwise. like i said i have benefit of the doubt and i want to see it grow but as it stand from a users standpoint nothing has changed but the nail polish


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:22:41
content:
  Your input is limited unless you have eyes on the code. Seriously read the changelogs. They're making changes.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:23:26
content:
  Hell the updates channel is so full I was scrolling the majority of the time you were typing your last message


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:24:58
content:
  im interested to see that, i could always import blend files??, wasnt the default tutorial browse buiolt on youtube videos i ddint update anything for that to work? i still cant use vrms


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:26:36
content:
  ok fair thats cause blenders python api changed alot but thats not a huge deal i code blender python if i had neoses source i can fix that probably in a day or two


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:29:31
content:
  Froox engine is what it's based on. It's like an engine within the engine. It's what makes logix and most ingame functions possible. That's fully distinct from neos.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:32:15
content:
  no it isnt thats legal technicality. the whole thing is built on Unity to start, all he did was build a system in unity to expose the values to runtime users and turn it inside out. that system of exposing the stuff to runtime is what they refer to as "Froox engine" and they did all of this for the purpose of building the platform that became neos. froox engine IS neos without that there is nothing literally.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:33:31
content:
  Wrong. Froox engine was developed separately. It was something he was working on preneos. And it has been used for other projects as well. See Durian.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:34:42
content:
  Also wrong. Karel has said repeatedly they're not pursuing it because it's not financially viable. But I suspect it's because they know they're not in a position to win.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:35:34
content:
  Hmm honestly I only know about durian from the other discord. It's a game similar to neos/reso and also had account migration to resonite.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:36:03
content:
  no hes right its not financially a good idea you know how long the case will take and how much it will cost both sides?  thats the point its such a grey area the legal case would take years and thousands of dollars and could go either way. it might be in neos best interest to just say screw it and take that money and pay a dev


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:37:32
content:
  i have heard of Durian but i thought it was like the alpha name for neos when they were still doing the university shows and using the platform for schools


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:39:18
content:
  I think it was a testing platform more than anything, never heard of it until right before reso was publicly announced


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:39:56
content:
  It's also connected to a previous planned name for reso that didn't end up being used for whatever reason


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:42:47
content:
  my guess is they were code names for update tests and the reason for migration and a seperate cloud was for testing the migration in a sandboxed env that wouldnt affect neos or reso


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:43:52
content:
  Migration options for durian. If it was a testing thing everyone who had a Durian account would already be transferred


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:46:51
content:
  It's not like it's data the users would want to carry over to an actively developing platform with a proven dev team


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:47:59
content:
  Imagine if Amazon refused to pay its employees a proper wage and was a small enough company that the dev team leaving could gut it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:48:34
edit_date: 2023-10-23 19:48:46
content:
  It's pulling the data from the neos servers upon request using credentials the user actively puts in?


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:49:01
edit_date: 2023-10-23 19:49:12
content:
  Well Froox owns the rights so it’d be Bezos leaving Amazon and taking the warehouses and making Nozema


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:50:38
content:
  chill no need to be uncivil thats why i said kinda, it is and it isnt. technically the owner of the data is the owner of the database. so who actually owns the cloud PC running the DB?


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:52:28
content:
  If Google said "hey, this file you uploaded to your drive? You can only view it through our page, and you can't download it" people would not be happy


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:52:49
content:
  if the cloud pc that house neoses db is owned by neos then taking the data to use for other reasons elsewhere is TECHNICALLY theft. reso didnt do that they were clever nstead what they did was facilitate for YOU to "steal" your own data. Ownership of data(sadly) doesnt work that way just cause you put it there doesnt make it yours.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:54:31
content:
  yes 100% if you upload something illegal the server owner is responsible for not moderating and taking it off 100%


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:59:03
content:
  "You are not permitted to:
  Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:59:37
content:
  there it is you could make the arguement the DB is part of the software and is being translated and transfered to a different software


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 19:59:47
content:
  And even then there are generally exceptions regarding  licensing in game. I.e. if I released something I created as cc by nc sa and it was uploaded they'd be in violation of that unless they open sourced everything.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:01:37
content:
  "This EULA agreement shall apply only to the Software supplied by Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. herewith regardless of whether other software is referred to or described herein. The terms also apply to any Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. updates, supplements, Internet-based services, and support services for the Software, unless other terms accompany those items on delivery. If so, those terms apply."


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:03:32
content:
  they are supplying the users with the DB lol yes it does the DB is infact a core part of the software they supply the usert


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:05:37
content:
  Sucks that they didn't hire someone with better knowledge of eulas but currently that doesn't work for data


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:07:02
content:
  you can do all those thing as long as you do it within the bound of neos using it for anyhtnig else is the violation


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:09:01
content:
  you are only restricted IF you allow it to be "to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:10:06
content:
  There are places that specifically own your content check like the Minecraft data pack stuff but their Eula actually accounts for stuff like this


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:13:15
content:
  if you woke up tomorrow and all the DBs wer wiped can you call the cloud server and have them recover your personal data? when they make those kind of descisions can you even stop them in anyway?


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:14:34
content:
  I literally do have it on my computer there is an account downloader tool and since karels mentioned mods are okay that eula is pretty irrelevant


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:15:05
content:
  no it isnt irrelevent at all he permitted a specific use case that honestly should have been update in the EULA also


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:16:00
content:
  Right they are allowing it and facilitating it, resonite is doing it without permission and they are using third party software to facilitate it


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:16:59
content:
  You're really confident about how they're doing it for someone who doesn't have access to their code base


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:17:02
content:
  There is a difference between data that is legally yours and data you have custody of. While you don’t have custody of your NeosDB data, it is legally yours to do with what you wish. The Resonite migration process is basically you giving Resonite permission you utilize that right on your behalf


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:17:41
content:
  what do you mean lmfao i dont need access to the codebase to know that them giving you access to their own db isnt the same as someone else doing it


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:17:45
content:
  There's nothing stopping cloud hosts like drive or dropbox from locking off your data, do you own the data you upload to said sites?


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:19:21
content:
  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://toolkit.ncats.nih.gov/glossary/data-ownership/%23:~:text%3DData%2520ownership%2520refers%2520to%2520both,these%2520access%2520privileges%2520to%2520others.&ved=2ahUKEwjU3cPw_oyCAxXdkYkEHZj6CykQFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0RD5-6aqLIDcSnEkJLv0sq


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:19:36
content:
  Data ownership refers to both the possession of and responsibility for information. Data owners have the ability to access, create, modify, package, derive benefit from, sell, or remove data, as well as the right to assign these access privileges to others.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:21:19
content:
  correct you do not own that file any longer, you could own a copy you could own the original and you could have full access but you dont not have possesion and ownership of that version


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:22:59
edit_date: 2023-10-23 20:23:17
content:
  5.1 Certain features and/or portions of the Neos Metaverse may permit you to upload, post or otherwise transmit your own content (hereinafter referred to as the “User Content”). For the avoidance of any doubt we acknowledge, that any User Content remains yours and that we do not gain any rights and/or possession of your User Content, unless expressly provided in these ToU.

  The last sentence is boilerplate. Nowhere else in the terms does it give exceptions to this rule


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:23:39
content:
  Your content is yours, meaning you can do whatever you want with it. Including allowing a different service to take it and upload it to itself


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:24:21
content:
  The team never took action against people who did so, and that clause has been removed from the Resonite TOS explicitly


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:25:58
content:
  ok cool now can someone link me to proof of difference between neos and reso other than UI and color grading


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:26:06
content:
  The act of migrating your account from your end is totally Kosher. Wonder if anything in the ToS doesn’t allow for the Resonite servers to scrape said content on the behalf of other users who have given explicit consent to do so


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:27:03
content:
  Have fun. Inspect the Resonite vs Neos assemblies for yourself if you don’t trust the words of others


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:27:39
edit_date: 2023-10-23 20:27:52
content:
  Everyone arguing against you has been working on the assumption that that you knew that, and in fact, I mentioned it in case you didn't know it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:28:08
content:
  Also protoflux is entirely different. Iirc this one operates entirely in a VM and runs code without needing to interpret it, leading to a lot more speed


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:28:49
content:
  It may look similar, but the inner workings which you don’t see are entirely different. Entire FrooxEngine subsystems like BaseX are not present in Resonite


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:30:15
content:
  Oh and keep in mind that you’re violating NeosVR TOS by opening the assemblies in dnSpy. Whether anyone cares is a different story


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:30:21
content:
  no no thats not what i mean, i mean user end changes im sure there was some backend things but nothing that is apparent on the user end, in fact now i see like a 10 frame drop from neos. so if anything on the user end its shinier and runs a lil worse atleast in my experience


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:31:53
content:
  You can't really own a method of interacting with a program anyways? It's like saying messaging platforms like this are exclusively only able to be made by cell providers or something


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:32:02
content:
  The new user experience is entirely revamped, several changes to UI and the building experiences which make it so much nicer to use is present, new components allowing behavior not possible in Neos are also there


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:32:52
content:
  Yeah that too. It could literally be bit for bit the Neos codebase except with no mention of Neos and be legal. Froox owns the code, Karel confirmed that a while ago and it’s why he wants open sourcing so bad


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:34:09
content:
  All cars go vroom but there's substantial differences under the hood. And I'm not talking between like, toyota and maserati


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:34:23
content:
  I’m guessing some kind of deal was struck behind closed doors, as Neos is still distributing Froox’s code on their website and through steam. I also theorize that’s why they cannot update freeimage even though the fix is right on GitHub. That modifying the codebase in any way would violate this theoretical agreement


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:34:29
edit_date: 2023-10-23 20:39:04
content:
  Honestly there's so much that goes into a platform like this that users, and even the people running platforms, often take for granted the work devs are doing. AAA has it everywhere.


type: message
date: 2023-10-23 20:42:28
edit_date: 2023-10-23 20:42:50
content:
  Shrug a car's a car I plan to only buy used because buying fresh and then agonizing over every lil potential ding or scrape or whatver would be too stressful


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 06:04:58
content:
  So to preface, resonite is offtopic to here

  That said, Flux is significantly more performant and better prepared compared to logix.
  Comparing Neos's cloud to Resonites is another easy one to see where theres just a gigantic gap. as a lot of synchronization blockers that exist in one just dont exist in the other, file uploads are more efficient and mass file upload jobs will complete correctly instead of taking half a day of manual intervention to complete.

  And thats only some of the ways Resonite is significantly different and better than Neos.

  I understand you may not have looked into it much but i have a lot of time using both Neos and Now Resonite and while there is some issues shared and performance of course can always be improved, the claim that the changes couldve been done in a few weeks is silly


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 19:37:28
content:
  I was glancing too quick at this chat and was about to be super surprised about an Ea-Nasir reference in here


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 19:39:58
content:
  2 things 1 if there was a place for an ea-nasir reference it would be neos. I could totally see a clay complaint about karel. And now the chat has an ea-nasir reference.


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 21:21:38
content:
  Hey Guys, Is there a way to Get files from neos back to my pc? I've had a HDD fail on me and the files are still on the server?


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 21:29:44
content:
  Do I have to be on lynix for that or can I do it in game? I'm on windows

  Just checking trying to get files off neos inventory back onto  my drive


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 21:44:00
edit_date: 2023-10-24 21:44:58
content:
  you can do that on any OS - spawn out the item from inventory, then grab it in world, then click the + button on the Files tab where you want to export it to. not everything exports the same manner (for instance if materials were changed)


type: message
date: 2023-10-24 22:26:04
content:
  Yeah That's annoying but its alright i'll have to find time to jump in and export the textures " I can download my model of gumtree"


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:00:21
edit_date: 2023-10-25 10:02:29
content:
  Hi everyone. Little bit of news to share, Stardust mining on Cooper's Planet in Neos is set to launch on January 1st 2024. We're excited to give you a little preview of what's to come.☺️ 🚀https://twitter.com/neos_vr/status/1717118319092769189?s=20


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:32:11
edit_date: 2023-10-25 10:38:30
content:
  I can't speak for every individual on the previous team, but I believe most have left to work on a platform that they feel is more aligned with their vision, which is fine☺️ 

  Things can coexist without interfering with each other in a long term, as we are focused on making Neos more accessible, interesting and fun to a broader audience.


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:35:27
content:
  Ok. What about previous developement - so you started from the very beginning buiding completely new system based on unreal engine?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:42:03
content:
  We have an Unreal client in development, but we're also actively planning other initiatives to ensure that Neos is optimized for broad adoption. Our ultimate goal is to open-source the project once we've made sufficient progress.


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:43:23
content:
  So you dont build anything on previous system? Because on neos website is this “Have you ever wanted to create your own virtual world? Neos is built to offer maximum flexibility and creative control. With its powerful engine, Neos provides you with everything you need to create incredible virtual worlds and experiences. Set up your avatar completely in game, collaborate in real-time, import any 3D asset in seconds, and bring your creations to life with advanced visual scripting tools.” 

  Is this statement valid atm?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 10:50:26
content:
  Neos had its own very unique engine as i remeber and it was the only reason why it was so famous. You replacing it with something else as i understand correctly?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 11:02:46
content:
  We are not replacing the engine. NeosVR can still exist alongside other initiatives. The mining experience on Cooper's Planet will be available in NeosVR as well. Initially anyway. 
  We're fully aware of specific challenges of current client, such as the webp security issue, and we are looking for ways of how this could be resolved. Things would be of course easier if we had more support from the previous team. 
  But we remain optimistic about overcoming obstacles. ☺️


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 11:15:41
content:
  Tomas and the previous team have all the means of doing so. However, I'm not sure how much they're actually doing. We were open to collaborating and would love to continue the development or at least some form of communication, and we have indicated this many times, but it seems like there isn't much interest or motivation on their end. I could be wrong of course.


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 11:20:12
content:
  So the previous system is dead (at least from a development perspective). What makes the "new neo" based on the unreal engine unique compared to other solutions?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 13:11:25
content:
  Has anyone looked in the discord since september? Maybe check the announcement channel to see how much they'll put toward neos at this point?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 13:58:57
content:
  “Looking for ways it could be resolved” 

  It has been. Thomas and his team made a fix a while ago. And out of the kindness of their hearts, made it open source. It’s even been compiled by others so all it needs is a drag and drop. 

  https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

  Does anyone on the new team have any knowledge on how the CI/CD pipeline even work so they can push such an update?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 14:17:10
content:
  The moderators from the discord quit and locked it as to not have an unmoderated barren land where people could post anything they wanted


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 14:17:53
content:
  It’s actually a good thing, since if some bad stuff got posted there and the discord was deleted, anyone in that discord could face potential account actions against them


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 14:25:44
edit_date: 2023-10-25 14:26:09
content:
  Why don't you change the chat link on coingecko to telegram instead of discord? the discord is locked. do something please


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 14:46:13
content:
  Wait wait wait wait. I think I know what happened here. You DONT have the build pipeline at all, do you? Is that why NeosVR hasn’t been updated? I can’t understand any other reason why this critical vulnerability hasn’t been fixed and why the team hasn’t advised against using the vulnerable program until it has been patched. Please prove me wrong, @malooniac


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 14:59:06
content:
  Even then, without a build pipeline, how would you do that? What servers do you connect to? How do you push it to steam?


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 17:02:25
content:
  We know that Solarix does not have source access to the frooxengine/neos codebase. I think it's reasonable to assume that they don't have access to any CI/CD pipeline either, if that previously existed.


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 17:03:31
content:
  I vaguely remember hearing that it didn’t use any kind of cloud build process. Froox would just push it from his computer. lol no wonder they haven’t fixed it


type: message
date: 2023-10-25 17:05:09
content:
  I wouldn't be surprised TBH. As much as I love neos it does have a bit of the old timy jank to it XD


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 00:48:30
content:
  XD Well. I certainty hope that is not the new dev, but it would explain why we haven't heard much from them here :P


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 00:57:54
content:
  thats a yikes, from the replies coming from that account as a "business account" for neosVR now. id reckon its a bloody 14yo kid running it with those backasswards comments


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 07:10:40
content:
  Hi 👋,

  We are hosting The World's First Web3 & AI Online Conference, SuperChain-AI Online Summit, on Dec 17th, 2023. We are inviting the most well-known Web3 and AI companies to showcase their innovations. The event is FREE to attend and we are aiming for an audience of 3000-5000. Here's an intro deck. http://i.superweb3.org/summitENintro We are looking for KOL partners to promote it among their followers.💰

  Shall we have a call? You can book a meeting with me at https://calendly.com/superweb3

  Here's my contact info:
  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencerfansiyu/
  Telegram: @fansiyu
  WhatsApp: +8618614061906


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 14:09:09
content:
  It's a file swap, is there really no way to download the currently released build and replace the dll before reuploading it to steam?


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 17:25:12
content:
  So Froox' team claim Karel does still have access to do this as he has access to the publisher's account (a level above Froox' account as far as Neos on Steam goes). Karel claims he can't do this as he doesn't have access to Frooxs' account, which given the previous comment seems like it shouldn't be necessary. I've personally never published anything on Steam so I can't confirm either way (or that he even has access to the publishing account in the first place).


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 17:27:08
content:
  Even if he didn't there are methods for account recovery. The issue is they're saying they require the source to do it. My estimate is they maybe legally can't modify or update it but idk I have no solid basis for that.


type: message
date: 2023-10-26 17:28:50
content:
  My old theory was that it was a legal issue, but now I think they just don’t know how. The build process was done locally and is part of the Unity project, which it seems Karel doesn’t get to have


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 10:35:50
content:
  I've published previously on Steam, even if Karel didn't have the publisher account, he could get his account access by just opening a support ticket using an account that has its e-mail set on the company's domain to get access.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 10:38:24
edit_date: 2023-10-27 10:38:47
content:
  Screenshot from my steamworks page, just to show I'm not BSing about having stuff on Steam. https://ash.tips/20231027103741sYkKz.png


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 10:43:29
content:
  Creating a new build doesn't require source code. You could literally copy the entire directory for your software, replace the file, then a couple of CLI commands would be sufficient to upload that as a new build to Steam.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 10:50:28
content:
  In their defense though; I wouldn't feel very comfortable taking contributions from someone I've had a nasty relationship with recently without being able to audit the changes myself or paying someone else to do it -- And in Karel's defense, he's not a programmer.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 12:47:26
content:
  Froox published the fix on GitHub right? Code should be simple to audit, or download the new dll. There are other updated sources for it, and swap it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 12:57:40
content:
  Why does it even need audited. He can just grab the official dll from https://freeimage.sourceforge.io/download.html no?


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:00:32
content:
  IDK if that even works and would be confused why Froox would need to fork and build his own if it did.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:01:57
content:
  I mean beyond that the fix he did publish is the same as resonites fork. If it's malicious all the users of reso would be effected too


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:04:21
edit_date: 2023-10-27 13:05:24
content:
  So, I don't think Froox would do this, but it's not really outside of the realm of possibility to make malicious code execute but only execute when loaded by one piece of program. On Windows for example you could call GetWindowTextA in the dll to see what the window title of the program which was loading you and then execute a different branch of code based on if it matched an unwanted application.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:05:53
content:
  Take a moment to consider how much time, effort, and love that was put into Resonite. Do you really think he would be stupid enough to build a bomb into a program whose source is laid bare to the entire internet? Risking jail, getting his GitHub account taken down, etc?


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:05:57
content:
  Yea I suppose but the danger of a hypothetical threat < the danger of a real threat that is active and unpatched


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:07:09
content:
  I think it would be understandable for someone like Karel to not feel safe about using it without getting it checked out first.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:08:26
content:
  You can't both argue he would be wary about a fix and also have Andrea stating they with the team worked with them


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:10:08
content:
  Lmfao what gets me is they're crying for it to be open source but the fix is open source and they haven't patched it


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:11:55
content:
  Honestly it's what they've been completing about tho. They keep saying the UE client will be open source but I don't think they can with the way it's set up.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:12:39
edit_date: 2023-10-27 13:12:50
content:
  Just to be clear mind you; I am not saying Froox did anything malicious at all and don't believe he did.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:14:14
content:
  I was just thinking from the angle, if I were in a similar situation and my partner left on bad terms, I wouldn't be trusting of code without having it checked out


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:15:32
content:
  Yea but would you sit on an unpatched vulnerability for over a month without releasing your own fix even when your ex partners fix is open


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:16:37
content:
  Well, it's an interesting situation in Europe because of the GDPR. Failure to patch vulnerabilities can lead to punishment.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:17:08
content:
  Mind you they've never complained about the security of it they only every complain about not having credentials for steam or not having source


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:20:06
content:
  IDK it was my understanding froox had built a wrapper for the dll and it was hot swappable. knowing it's a full fork changes it a bit. But honestly it's sad that they haven't tried to fix it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:20:31
content:
  To make it a bit more awkward, no regulator has explicitly stated the timeframe by which vulnerabilities should be patched by. However, I think they look at it at a case by case basis and in this case, I wonder if an investigation would reveal any attempt was made to fix it.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:21:45
edit_date: 2023-10-27 13:22:05
content:
  Based on what they've said I don't think that they're attempting to make a fix I think they focused all of their efforts on releasing the new client in January which means that they would be allowing it to go unpatched for upwards of 3 months


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:24:05
content:
  Well, I'd be curious if Solarix is complying with the new online safety act that entered royal ascent yesterday.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 13:25:11
content:
  This covers a small portion of the bill, but I think is very relevant to Neos:

  https://webdevlaw.uk/2022/07/11/your-compliance-obligations-under-the-uks-online-safety-bill/


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 14:32:53
edit_date: 2023-10-27 14:35:01
content:
  TLDR you can’t make in game build tools, which is Neos’ whole MO. But that doesn’t matter, as it seems the goal of Coopers Planet is to make a crypto idle clicker and not function like Neos does in any capacity. Andrea can gladly prove me wrong and explain how it would actually be compliant with Unreal license terms


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 17:46:01
content:
  Wow. The future of Neos is cookie clicker?
  Well hell, don't we already have cookie clicker in the essentials folder?


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:13:20
content:
  This whole story with neos is sad.  It ended up launching another one of many very same "metaverse" projects just to pump the token. This is how shit management ends. A very sad story


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:19:31
content:
  The story of Neos is sad, yes, but everyone involved who made Neos the software itself have made their own project called Resonite. I’d recommend you look into that if interested


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:24:46
content:
  This coopers island thing is just very poor attempt to pump the price of ncr. Most interesting thing is, its not the first time. I cant forget how they made tons of buybacks instead of dealing with bad management


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:34:55
content:
  I see. I came to Neos for creation and socialization. Neither of those required the token. That there is why 100% of the Neos community jumped ship. It wasn’t even “some stayed and some left”. Literally everyone left


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:38:17
content:
  I honestly wonder what the right move would have been. I feel like the burn vote was the point of no return, but I wonder what could have been done to insulate the project and the community from the pump and dump.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 19:46:33
content:
  I don’t know if there was a right one. NCR needed the community, but the community didn’t need NCR. It was fine when it took a backseat role, but the moment NCR tried to take a more central part of the project, it was clear that they both couldn’t coexist as they wanted. And now we have a community with no coin and a coin with no community. One much worse off than the other


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 20:01:12
content:
  Save for the creators that were compensated for their community contributions via CDFT. NCR was here for a long time, and generally it wasn't minded. There was a culture clash with the people who weren't on board with far more subtle role of NCR and CDFT, but the specific cultural line wasn't NCR, that's been here for years and it didn't cause this kind of chasem, it was how the boom was handled.

  Not sure we can just be like "well, that community is better off" when a lot of the work done is inherited from the CDFT system, and now the people who contributed just sort of have to eat the loss.

  I guarantee if the situation wasn't tangled up in a power struggle the community would have been having a far more nuanced discussion on how to transition the economy without leaving those community developers holding the bag.


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 20:02:21
content:
  That is very true. At that point, NCR was much more predictable. When it turned into a speculative asset and went wild, it tanked its usefulness as a unit of doing business


type: message
date: 2023-10-27 20:03:16
content:
  If NCR stayed as a utility token, this likely wouldn’t have gone to shit, but it tried to be both. You can’t do both at the same time well


type: message
date: 2023-10-28 10:07:02
content:
  Hello.
  I am new to Telegram and apologize in advance if I am using it rudely.
  I am no longer seeing the NCR and storage space that I had before in NeosVR. Is there a contact person I can contact to get this resolved?


type: message
date: 2023-11-03 14:54:02
content:
  He's a well known troll. He joins sessions, spams that stuff and gets increasingly abusive the longer he sticks around until his account gets banned and then he makes a new one to repeat the cycle.


type: message
date: 2023-11-03 16:43:59
content:
  If he is, he can keep it up for years. One of my friends chatted with him every week for months and it was the same.


type: message
date: 2023-11-10 20:15:31
content:
  NCR is definitely not following the curve of the market at all. Honestly it's the opposite. SOL, ETH, BTC, all been trending upward the last 30 days where NCR is down 10% to USD or 30% to eth.


type: message
date: 2023-11-14 22:38:57
content:
  So interested to see what they come up with. They can’t touch the old code base, they can’t do what Neos does in Unreal due to their license. If they do the bog standard coin project, they lose all individuality and what made Neos so special to begin with. I don’t foresee a way they can escape from this


type: message
date: 2023-11-15 15:50:30
content:
  And that introduces any prospects for the project at all? It’s not a unique concept. Nothing to make this project with a history of pump and dump take off


type: message
date: 2023-11-16 04:50:46
content:
  What if we actually implemented some sort of decentralized infrastructure project and rewarded people who choose to donate compute, bandwidth and storage resources to handle our back-end cloud with a platform that is actually robust against the bitter tides of fate?
  Also I guess we can do something with NCR. Snort it maybe? Basicly I think we should stop hosting the cloud backend as a monolithic Azure service.


type: message
date: 2023-11-16 17:04:54
content:
  Compute isn't the main thing on cloud. It's database and if they're using the built in service for database in Azure then it's horizontally scalable already (I'd hope)


type: message
date: 2023-11-16 17:07:53
content:
  Decentralized compute or storage aren’t really a good idea. If things are encrypted, then we create the perfect place for all sorts of illegal material to be stored. Plus, data protection laws most likely wouldn’t favor it too highly


type: message
date: 2023-11-16 17:59:23
content:
  I don't really think this is a good argument. That could be made for any end to end encrypted platform.


type: message
date: 2023-11-16 20:20:36
content:
  Homomorphic encryption allows you to perform operations on the encrypted data, but you can only decrypt the end result with the unshared private key and original content


type: message
date: 2023-11-18 15:50:24
content:
  Depends on what you mean. The client is being rebuilt from scratch by a new anonymous dev team, and play to earn mechanics are being shoved in. I've asked multiple times if live asset loading is even a thing in it because all we've seen in the footage is a web browser in UE and the P2E crypto world, but not much more.


type: message
date: 2023-11-18 16:04:36
edit_date: 2023-11-18 16:04:59
content:
  I Just mean the tokens I hold are they still on the same CA or has there been any migration or airdrop, with being new devs


type: message
date: 2023-11-18 16:06:48
content:
  No idea, I never was in it for the crypto. Just the capability of the software. Though I doubt that's gonna last.


type: message
date: 2023-11-18 19:24:42
content:
  But to what end? There's no users anymore, nor a platform. It's like buying shares in a company where all the staff walked out and has no customers. I need someone who thinks this makes sense to explain their logic to me.


type: message
date: 2023-11-18 22:27:03
content:
  Yea but with dropbox you can share it with others outside via link. I wouldnt trust Neos with my Preservation of Obscure Media


type: message
date: 2023-11-19 16:56:34
content:
  Now with frooxius pushed out and a new development team, what’s stopping this coin from taking off? Any other things to watch out for?


type: message
date: 2023-11-19 18:29:07
content:
  Frooxius and the former Neos team were the only people who were able to work on the project and give it any semblance of legitimacy or use


type: message
date: 2023-11-20 04:47:35
content:
  I mean, for all we know, the new dev team could be competent.
  I think a good start to proving any legitimatecy is to show that the new "client" can load from the cloud.
  Ofc, not even that's happening.
  If they actually meet the Jan 1st deadline (which, given history, I don't think is very likely), we'll have a definitive answer.


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 01:13:59
content:
  No one agreed with me when I said that. Now in my opinion neos team whoever they are don’t care about developing neosvr. They are just waiting for bull market. Anyway Ncr price will increase but it is about Karel how much it will. After they get money ( again) it depends on their personality and greed they can develop neosvr or just leave  with  full of their pockets.


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 03:39:46
content:
  Hello. Thank you for your insightful input. I would like to address this directly. It's important to clarify that the current team is very much commited to the development and future of Neos. We are not 'waiting for a bull market' but having to work continuously on overcoming the limitations understandably can make the progress slower than desired.

  The decision of the previous team to stop supporting NeosVR is their own.

  I've personally reached out to Frooxius to try and open discussion on even the most basic updates such as the Steam client and the FreeImage library. Sadly, I had no response and so we just have to go through the VERY slow process of Steam support. Perhaps you would like to email him or the team, maybe you will be more lucky.


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 03:40:28
content:
  I'm not trying to play the sympathy card here; just want you to get the real picture of how tough it is when there is zero apetite for communication. I would hardly waste my time groveling for attention if we were just sitting back and waiting for the cash to roll in. 

  While all of this is frustrating, it does not affect the ongoing development of our the new client and the staking launch.
  We are on schedule with Cooper's Planet with the launch set for January 1st. 🚀

  It's going to be a lot of fun I hope people will be able to just for a moment put aside their negativity and enjoy it for what it is. A lot of creativity, love and hard work has been going into it. ❤️


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 03:40:47
edit_date: 2023-11-23 03:40:54
content:
  We'll be also sharing new video showcasing our progress in Unreal - this time we have Neos Hub and more updates to the UI. 
  Should be able to show it next week. 

  Plus, we've recently improved user experience by adding a 'forgot password' feature on our website, allowing for easier password resets. It's a small thing but adds a lot of user comfort.


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 04:22:55
edit_date: 2023-11-23 04:30:19
content:
  You are nearly right ☺️Cooper's Planet is about making staking gamified and fun. It's tied in with staking process - you'll get to run around, shoot and mine meteors, collect Stardust and level up in your ranks, while gaining staking percentage - as outlined in the current whitepaper. 

  January 1st is when we have planned to launch the first mining experience. The staking part will commence shortly after and we'll send announcement about exact date and time in the next official update soon. Hope that helps😊


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 04:36:48
content:
  Regarding the freeimage library, I don’t see what you need his help with. It is on GitHub free and open source. Compile it and replace the old one. It’s that simple


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 08:25:01
content:
  Absolutely, we're aiming for all of this and more -  in the long run. We plan to streamline world loading and overhaul things like LogiX to make it friendlier for entry level creators. Neos Store will be seamlessly integrated to make adding items to your inventory easy. Inventory itself is then also going to be significantly improved from its current version that is, let's say 'challenging on eye'.

  This is why all the works we are currently doing on the UI are important as they set the precedent to how we wish to gradually turn Neos into way more user friendly software. 

  But I want to stress again that this will be a gradual process. There are still things to iron out before we can formalize these in a roadmap, but it's the way we are heading.


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 15:50:22
content:
  So without access to the Neos codebase, your current goal is to allow for interoperability with content made in the Neos Unity client? How will content creation work in the unreal client? It’s been mentioned many times before that the unreal license agreement doesn’t allow for in game editor tools


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 17:06:10
content:
  Also, the brand new inventory is challenging on the eye? Wasn't the entire purpose of the web UI to fix that?


type: message
date: 2023-11-23 21:46:30
content:
  I'm a bit confused, I'm seeing comments about NCR. But I'm also seeing comments about attempting to improve Neos VR, just wondering what the priority of neos as a whole is atm?


type: message
date: 2023-11-24 06:43:35
content:
  Also, wait, it's a yes or no question. At the moment, is the cloud asset loading, the entire basis of neos as it currently exists, at all in the unreal client?


type: message
date: 2023-11-24 09:39:18
content:
  So will the Unreal Engine Neos client support building and sharing worlds from VR, or will the world building be done in Unreal Engine?


type: message
date: 2023-11-24 09:52:34
content:
  The resonite devs have made it clear that it's a completely new product. The only similarity would be the people working on it.


type: message
date: 2023-11-24 10:28:00
content:
  Correction, they *were* related. Their relation comes from something neos doesn't have anymore, the old team. That and the new direction neos is going in. They aren't related anymore.


type: message
date: 2023-11-24 10:28:46
content:
  I mean related in that it is very similarfor users, kinda like VRchat would be, if you dont care about the crypto part they are very related


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 12:04:23
content:
  What the hell are you on about? Resonite is literally a fork of Neos. Hell, if you showed most people the two side by side, they'd not even be able to tell the difference.


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 13:56:28
content:
  There's another VR game named Helios which does exactly that. It is in very early stages of development


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 13:58:31
content:
  The reason why you can’t make editor tools in game is because this means users of the game don’t need to agree to Unreal licensing terms in order to leverage the Unreal engine


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:00:57
content:
  Depends on what you mean by dead. Functionally, it still has use, but the major selling point of it is now no longer a thing. With the old team no longer working on Neos and the new team unable to add to the current code, it will take a long time before any semblance of the old value proposition will be possible. 

  A lot of time, effort, and skill went into Neos. If a new client which attempts backwards compatibility comes out, a lot of things will undoubtedly break


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:01:25
content:
  My mistake I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is will world building be done
  a) Via proprietary scripting and building tools in-game
  b) Via the Unreal Engine SDK using the already mature Blueprints and building tools


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:02:28
content:
  A is not possible with Unreal. It would have to be B. This basically nukes a major selling point of the OG Neos


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:03:00
content:
  Would be very interesting to have both. For example, compiled and high performance Blueprints for world visuals and Logix for interactables


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:04:02
content:
  As it allows users to create experiences in the unreal engine without getting a license and accepting the license terms


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:06:05
content:
  Taking this into consideration, it's now very odd how they would continue their legacy of a creative VR environment


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:11:46
edit_date: 2023-11-27 14:15:14
content:
  Could building worlds/items be done in the Unity client and be transferred to the Unreal Engine client?


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:19:31
content:
  The worlds themselves are platform agnostic. You’d need to create a new platform which can read these worlds and perfectly replicate them


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:20:03
content:
  Seeing as even Resonite had some issues converting content over, and they were backed by the same devs makes me think they won’t come close to pulling this off


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:31:52
content:
  The issues in Resonite were very few, except performance. In the Unreal client, I expect at least static 3D models to be successfully replicated and performance to be much better.


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:41:14
content:
  A lot of experiences in Neos are even possible because of Logix. Static meshes and assets are the easy part. Logix? Not so much


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:41:58
content:
  Plus, you’d only be able to move over the content of those who want it moved over, which would be slim to none. You’d need to essentially start over, making pouring so much time into a conversion pipeline useless


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:51:25
content:
  Right, I'd expecte them to do the easy part for the first release and afterwards develop the more advanced features


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:52:23
edit_date: 2023-11-27 14:52:36
content:
  Hmm... I'm thinking that the inventory between Unreal and Unity clients could be synced, so you can access your items from both


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 14:58:56
content:
  I really don’t see that to be a good idea. You’ll have content that breaks the Unreal client and content that breaks the Unity client


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 15:12:27
content:
  Upon thinking it over, that’s likely true. I wouldn’t be surprised if that triggered a wave of Resonite users logging in to delete their accounts and creations though


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 15:19:42
content:
  Their choice, whatever. If they don't want stay here, it's probably for the better. Neos is starting to look promising to me


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 15:21:51
edit_date: 2023-11-27 15:23:03
content:
  I don't want to invest anything until I see the final product. Also, I don't create that many things because I'm not a 3d modeler and I don't like certain aspects of Logix


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 16:00:05
content:
  Going to be honest on this one, I'm here to invest and get a return, not much else.
  I'm not a creator nor I want to use VR stuff


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 16:06:58
content:
  Storage isn't specifically a thing only content creators use so IDK what that second reasoning means


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 17:00:02
content:
  No it’s not. It’s the asset system. If I have a 10mb image and I save it 10 times, it doesn’t use 100mb. The first time it is saved, it uses 10mb. The subsequent copies reference the original


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 17:00:34
content:
  This means the other copies use basically no storage as they don’t contain assets. Delete all instances of an asset to remove it from your tally


type: message
date: 2023-11-27 17:35:36
content:
  It doesn't update immediately, it can sometimes take a while. You also need to make sure you've deleted all copies of whatever it was


type: message
date: 2023-11-28 02:41:47
content:
  Unproven dev team and no real showings of features outside of play-to-earn crypto, and a complete disregard for the niche they nearly completely dominated? Future sure looks bright.


type: message
date: 2023-11-28 02:42:55
edit_date: 2023-11-28 02:43:12
content:
  If we could really see progress I wouldn't care that we've not seen anything from the devs themselves. But the fact that we can't does not bode well.


type: message
date: 2023-11-29 05:59:13
content:
  Even just devnotes or a git repo with any kind of pushes or something. Going from being used to a completely transparent dev process to behind closed doors


type: message
date: 2023-11-29 12:40:58
content:
  Transparent would be giving small dev updates and not just like ghosting for weeks with the comment of were busy working on the project. Community relations are already tense given the nature of recent events and better PR may help settle.


type: message
date: 2023-11-29 13:44:38
content:
  That isn’t transparent. Their dev isn’t working so hard that they can’t say hello or give any form of status update. If they are, they’ll burn out anyhow


type: message
date: 2023-11-29 14:44:03
content:
  If you think that falls under either of those, I don’t think you know what those words mean. I could just shout on and on about hating NCR with no base and that’d be FUD. I’m offering actual criticism / opinion. Something no person or project should be above


type: message
date: 2023-11-29 14:44:54
content:
  I’m not going to reduce myself to playground level mudslinging. I want to have actual conversations here


type: message
date: 2023-11-30 05:54:21
content:
  If legitimate criticism is "fud" enough to seriously hurt a project, then maybe there's cause for major concern.


type: message
date: 2023-12-05 00:53:40
content:
  Hello, yes apologies, we're running a bit behind schedule with this, but I am on it and should have the teaser ready for release this week, in the next couple of days. Thanks for understanding!


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 09:30:33
content:
  Hello everyone! 

  As we rapidly approach the end of 2023, I'm excited to share some upcoming developments for 2024. 🚀

  🌐 Neos World Browser: We've redesigned it for easier usability and navigation. The Unreal version of Cooper's Planet will be the first world accessible directly on the web! 🌟

  💬 Instant Messaging: This feature will also be implemented directly in the web UI, making it easier for you to connect and communicate. 

  🎮 Cooper's Planet Gamified Staking: We're in the final stages of preparing this long-anticipated event. It's designed to bring fun and value to both current and new NCR holders. If no major hurdles, we still aim to launch on January 1st, with staking set to start in the coming week. We will announce the exact date here and on X! ⏰

  Thank you for your support and being a part of our journey. 😊
  And now, here's the promised sneak peek trailer: https://x.com/neos_vr/status/1733054368297910580?s=20


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 11:03:48
content:
  If you go to https://neos.com/#neos-credits you can click "Read whitepaper" which gives you info about the token.


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 11:54:25
content:
  All of the promotional videos so far has only shown the unreal client in desktop mode, will Neos (unreal) support VR mode on launch?


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 14:58:43
content:
  I noticed that the coopers planet section of this video at least uses Neos Unity. What will this entail? Will it be an update? New world?


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 17:05:23
content:
  I think I got my answer. Obviously the new neos is not the same kind of game it was, and is arguably the opposite. It manages to fall short of even competing with VRChat as a dynamic space despite being labeled as a "metaverse".


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 17:14:05
content:
  How did we even get player animations before cloud loading? The work for getting something like that working in a compatible way to the previous games architecture is ridiculous... Unless this isn't at all going to be compatible.


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 17:19:09
content:
  I had a group approach me last year to animate a "club scene" for their multiverse project using blender. I kinda wonder how much of this is actually in game and how much is blender sizzle reel bc those clearly aren't players, synced animation and perfect spacing. Idk. Sussy


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 19:27:16
edit_date: 2023-12-08 19:27:25
content:
  Also, are we ever gonna get higher quality uploads of these trailers, or are they stuck in low bitrate 720p limbo forever?


type: message
date: 2023-12-08 20:35:24
edit_date: 2023-12-08 20:37:02
content:
  Are we going to see the other worlds that show up in the world browser in the trailer? Are there actually that many testers?


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 02:07:40
content:
  Project is dead imo. lol we’d all be rich if the founders got along though. Great story about a clash between furries and crypto chads though


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 02:20:18
content:
  We are planning to support some viable form of VR in the future, especially targeting mobile headsets which are improving every year. The purpose of these updates shown in the video is to make Neos better optimized and more user-friendly on desktop/web in the more immediate timeframe.😊

  Focusing on the positives I believe that the shift towards usability will be appreciated, by both new and current users who might not want to see the same issues in a different coat. This will also help in testing, as the UI in VR will likely mirror the web version where possible. 

  Cooper's Planet will initially be available as a world in the current NeosVR client, in both VR and desktop of course. 

  However, we are also working on its in-browser implementation so it won't be necessary to launch the original client if people just want to enjoy the mining experience. As we have always said that this will be done in non-intrusive way so it is up to the user if they would like to engage or not.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 02:26:32
content:
  I am not aware of the departure of the current Neos CEO, and NCR continues to be part of the project as outlined in the last whitepaper.😊
  Yes, currently you can use NCR for buying storage and to make transactions between creators but the future utility is planned to be wider - for example trading and managing asset ownerships within the Neos Store (once there is one of course) 

  Again by making these things increasingly easier with the recent updates - for instance buying storage directly from your Neos account,  we are setting a ground for future updates and functionalities.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 04:19:49
content:
  If all you've ever seen in the project is the money you could make, you're part of why the coin is worth as little as it is.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 12:13:38
content:
  The CEO is the only one that remained, everyone else left (excluding Andrea, but her presence was essentially non-existent until after everyone else left).


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 14:22:49
content:
  This account continues to spread baloney. Are there any steps being taken to combat the misinformation?


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 14:50:12
content:
  Why would a new coin go any differently? There needs to be some kind of mechanism to prevent the worth from dropping through the floor if it's gonna last.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 14:50:24
content:
  The NCR pump became a dump and Karel spent millions in buybacks to try and artificially raise the price. Millions made from the ICO itself. The number is around $50 million that was made from people minting NCR, and he's spent around $47 million of that trying to keep the price up, which has failed. All it did was raise the price to allow people to sell off, lowering it again. "Exit liquidity" is the term


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 14:54:56
edit_date: 2023-12-09 14:55:28
content:
  Pretty sure recreating UE editing tools within UE is against TOS, so if they do reimplement everything, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot if EG catches wind


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 15:33:06
content:
  What's the point of even making Cooper's Planet for the existing client if you can't really support it? Will its functionality be identical to the other clients or pared down? You say you plan on supporting VR headsets in the future, but the existing client already does, implying you won't be doing anything with it


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 15:33:56
content:
  I am unsure if that is even legally possible, as the code contained within it is not property of Solirax. I don't know why it hasn't been struck down due to copyright. Maybe a deal was struck allowing the continued distribution?


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 15:35:56
content:
  I disagree here. If not for the former Neos team's work, there would be no product for Karel to manage the finances of. The team's new endeavors demonstrate that Karel is no longer needed for their vision of what Neos could have been regardless


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 15:40:04
content:
  To salvage anything meaningful from this project will definitely be...challenging, but I am curious to see what their interpretation of "Neos" is after this. Even if they had the full source code, good luck understanding it to update it, meaning they need to make a new Neos while still awkwardly holding the old one. We are seeing this in their plans for an Unreal version, which seems to share no similarities between it and the Unity client except for assets which were copied over


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 16:10:44
content:
  If they want to rebuild neos in a way that doesn't split the already tiny playerbase into two groups, they either need to severely limit themselves by trying to make the UE client network compatible with the Unity one, or ditch the unity one entirely. I don't think the former is even possible.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 17:05:04
content:
  I think that implies that they care at all about making UE compatible with the Unity client. That isn't going to happen, but even if they could, I don't see them wanting to


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 17:26:00
content:
  Can they even patch the security vulnerability? Why don't they kill off the unity client completely? It's only going to cause them issues.


type: message
date: 2023-12-09 17:34:46
content:
  A lot of what the unity client does relies on C# and the nature of JIT. You just can't get that in UE.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 16:41:40
content:
  I feel like that’s partially a matter of “our company got fucked hard and if we abandon it, we have literally nothing to show for it”


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 17:27:20
content:
  Do you get to call it being fucked hard if it's because of decisions you made? I'm pretty sure those are just called consequences. Actions reactions all that jazz.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 17:29:16
content:
  As far as I can tell, they could patch the standalone. Not sure if they were going through any support channel with steam for the steam client


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 17:29:24
content:
  Apologies if what I said implies it wasn’t them that caused what happened. Solirax is in the “find out” phase


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 18:04:20
content:
  Their previous responses implied that the vulnerability wasn't severe enough to address bc other large companies didn't address it iirc but take that with a shaker of salt bc I'm not willing to scroll back to cite it


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 19:10:12
content:
  Lol it's an rce with the webp library. Every browser, vlc, etc addresses it immediately and told everyone to update immediately


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 19:58:18
content:
  Yeah, it's not a small exploit. You really should not be joining public worlds with an unpatched client. Luckily you can patch it yourself by replacing the affected library but that really should be done for you.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 19:59:53
content:
  It is such a trivial fix from a technical perspective that it boggles the mind as to why it hasn't been done. Literally the only explanation is that they lost access to their steam account and can't be bothered to attempt to regain it.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 20:02:06
content:
  Probably because they are rationalizing disengaging with Steam so they can put NCR front and center rather than backdooring it. However that is putting the current user base in danger for what is effectively just disenchantment with a distribution model.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 20:03:29
content:
  To make it a bit more awkward, no regulator has explicitly stated the timeframe by which vulnerabilities should be patched by. However, I think they look at it at a case by case basis and in this case, I wonder if an investigation would reveal if any attempt was made to fix it.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 20:04:13
content:
  Just contact steam, regain control of your publisher account and ask one of the many people who have volunteered to help you learn how to patch the issue to help push the update.


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 20:11:21
content:
  So I may have been wrong, but scrolling up the only response that jumped out was karel say their devs would look at frooxs patch to make sure it was all good


type: message
date: 2023-12-11 20:25:56
content:
  It’s basically already done and on GitHub. Your dev can take that code and fix it very quickly. I don’t see why he should come back after having quit working for Solirax. This vulnerability was after they left. They don’t owe Solirax any else after they quit.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 00:34:19
content:
  If they can't upload a singular file to their steam distribution of the game, why do they hold onto it?


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 00:54:06
content:
  It would be rather wonderful if things just worked the way people envision. I certainly would like to live in a world like that. ✨

  In reality it took us about 4+ weeks just liaising here and there with Steam support to regain account access. And since we need to ensure that every commit is authentic and since there is a LOT of code to go through, it requires thorough validation of the patch - which requires devs time. And devs are human beings, not code-churning machines. Usually they juggle more than one project at the time.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 00:54:39
content:
  We're on it however and this approach is necessary, as there's a big difference between a patch for individual use and integrating it for official download. 

  It does warm my heart though to know how many people here care so deeply about this update, as it clearly shows Neos isn't 'dead' to them after all. Thank you and we will most definitely inform you as soon as this is fixed!😊


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 01:46:23
content:
  Four people just said the NeosBot is offline and not responding to messages. I can't remove my Patato


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 01:56:48
content:
  Lol I'm not trying to be that guy but karel said he should have updated it himself, now he's so distrusted that it's taken 3+ months to scrutinize something it took him a day to deliver.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:03:57
edit_date: 2023-12-12 02:04:22
content:
  "And since we need to ensure that every commit is authentic and since there is a LOT of code to go through, it requires thorough validation of the patch - which requires devs time."
  Are you *seriously* telling me that Froox uploading a binary that inherently cannot be checked would have been *more trustworthy* and easier to verify the safety of than open commits? You're joking. You have to be.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:16:59
content:
  Yes, but they insist on checking every single little change. And imply they wouldn't need to if a already patched binary was uploaded, which, no, I'd say it's even easier to hide something nasty that way.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:18:52
content:
  No idea. The possibility of different behavior depending on what's running it is possible, but people have already used it with the unity client.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:27:01
content:
  I don’t get it. Either they want Froox to work on it or they want to claim to check every line of code. It’d take more effort to look over Froox’s shoulder as he does a fix than to just check his repo. 

  This is just an excuse to shift blame to that team in my opinion


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:28:58
content:
  And when I say build, I don’t mean any additional effort. I mean loading the project up in visual studio and clicking “publish to folder” to create the library


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:29:31
edit_date: 2023-12-12 02:30:16
content:
  I don't see any other reason they'd let a built binary be pushed unchecked, but still do this, other than crafting a narrative. If I'm wrong and they have a valid reason to do that, then they should really say it, because I cannot for the life of me think of one.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:30:37
content:
  That repo doesn’t have a build last I checked. They have to build it themselves. Froox isn’t handing them a black box saying “put this in your code”


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:31:40
content:
  I am a developer myself, so it is royally annoying when people complain about the fix. There is no way to sugar coat it besides the notion that Solirax either cannot or will not implement it


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:32:57
edit_date: 2023-12-12 02:33:44
content:
  "Pretty pathetic Froox didn’t push this update if it’s basically already done." implies that a black box build would have been implicitly trusted


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:35:16
content:
  Whichever viewpoint is the most useful to smear the former team. I do genuinely understand why they need to. They’re stuck with a dead platform they’re paying for each month which they have absolutely no clue how to run or update. They’re in deep shit, so they want someone to place the blame on


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 02:46:14
content:
  If for security reasons they were, I'd understand, but based on this, that's definitely not the case.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 17:25:42
edit_date: 2023-12-12 17:27:38
content:
  Solarax was warned in September, and simultaneously provided with the patch: https://t.me/c/1314262393/51803

  Prior to that, Solarax had two turbulent years in which to establish basic control over its assets. Even giving the benefit of the doubt that the company was blindsided by the necessity to maintain control over its distribution channels until the day of a critical security vulnerability, we should have been able to expect a resolution in late October or early November even assuming a 4 week turn around with Steam support. We're in mid December.

  Validating a patch does not take a month. The plain and evident truth is that the Solarax team did not prioritize user security in this incident. Solarax continued distributing a client with a known exploit rather than responsibly pausing distribution until they could resolve the issue. Solarax is, at this moment, distributing a client with a known remote code execution vulnerability.

  This was incredibly irresponsible and at the bare minimum Neos' user-base deserves an apology and a pledge for Solarax to handle these situations in a responsible manor going forward. Not this 'Oh you're just out of touch with reality ✨' gaslighting and deflecting. You can and should do better.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 21:16:35
content:
  Never any criticism for the former team and their abusively witholding the steam access. Just the same old safe punching bags being hit with some air of superiority and patting each other on the back.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 21:17:42
content:
  Only reason Froox published anything to github over this is because he could potentially been held responsible for it


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 21:20:35
content:
  Karel If you're not confident in your ability to fight the anti-crypto furies, just abandon the existing code and make a new metaverse in coordination with NCR's majority shareholder, MASSIVELOOP.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 21:36:28
content:
  @malooniac We don't want to see negative, FUD-causing topics here anymore. The Neos Telegram community needs to be moderated so that it can be a positive, supportive space for Neos.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 21:59:31
content:
  As someone who has had to recover access to steamworks company stuff on steam, it's literally creating a trouble ticket from an account with an e-mail on the official company's domain that typically takes a week at worst.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 22:39:50
content:
  They open source all their library modifications and even a few of their first party libraries, what are you even on about?


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 23:25:47
edit_date: 2023-12-12 23:26:14
content:
  I am never going to normalize working for a company you quit for free just because they can't be bothered to have good business continuity practices. Frankly, the blame rests with the company. The fact that no one wrote down their steam publisher account password in a security deposit box or corporately owned password vault service boggles the mind.


type: message
date: 2023-12-12 23:42:52
edit_date: 2023-12-12 23:44:19
content:
  The fact that the old team just had to quit to have the organization lose source access is such a laughable oversight in the first place. Debating the professionalism of their behavior might be fun for internet points but the bottom line is basic IP safeguarding practices were not in place, not legal, not technical and not procedural. This is a company running a managed wallet for its user base. These practices should not be considered acceptable. I don't care if the previous team behaved unprofessionally when they quit the company, that's their prerogative. What I care about is that we are adequately protected regardless of or in spite of the professionalism displayed. That starts with a business continuity plan and a commitment to at the very least shipping a reasonably safe product.


type: message
date: 2023-12-13 00:19:23
content:
  The Steam client doesn't work with crypto anyway, so why bother? Neos is a crypto-based platform anyway. No problem.


type: message
date: 2023-12-13 09:26:48
content:
  It's possible. I haven't logged in for a while though as most of the community have moved to another platform too.


type: message
date: 2023-12-13 09:32:44
content:
  Resonite was started by the Neos developer that left Neos and retains a more modern Neos experience without crypto. VRChat though is entirely unaffiliated but is the largest, without in-world content creation tools


type: message
date: 2023-12-13 09:42:23
content:
  That's why i invested lof ot money, it made sense back then and still does, but it was handled badly.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 00:37:31
content:
  Didn't the trailer say that the mining will be also on the regular client? If released, but security not patched, wouldn't that be worse?


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 01:11:27
content:
  As mentioned previously, we're actively working on it, so it will be patched. 
  And the company name you are referring to is 'Solirax'. If you're going to make these big statements full of 'plain and evident truth' you might want to ensure that at least your spelling is correct.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 01:13:01
content:
  CEXs have many benefits indeed, and once staking is launched it would be good to enhance our visibility but the decision on which particular exchanges is still something to ponder☺️


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:26:20
edit_date: 2023-12-14 02:31:58
content:
  Let me ask you this with perfect spelling, then. Can you outline the work you’re doing on that patch clearly and explain why the publicly available code hasn’t been used as a build already? If it’s because of checking commits for any nefarious code, can you outline how much you’ve checked? You’re doing something about this right? Surely you’ve got something after a couple months?


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:27:44
content:
  I will take any amount of actual evidence that whoever is working on the software has actually done something to address the security vulnerability. Until then, I’ll just maintain the opinion that the security of the Unity client isn’t Solirax’s main priority


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:50:04
content:
  Different people are working on things like teasers so I am not sure how is that related to the patch. I  appreciate your perspective on their value however this is subjective. Small as they are, they're still important they are something positive to highlight,  instead of constantly pointing out what's wrong. So they can exist in parallel😊 

  And for the record I do not mind criticism I am just saying that it is not all doom and gloom.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:52:11
content:
  I've mentioned several times now that this is being worked on, and I apologize if my points aren't coming across clearly. Discussing this further probably won't speed up the process, so I'm not sure what more there is to say on this topic. I will update you once it's implemented. 😊


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:55:51
content:
  You have presented 0 evidence that it was actually worked on and why we should trust that Solirax cares about the Unity client here.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:56:48
content:
  @malooniac I do appreciate the fact that you're willing to talk to us and hear us out. I thank you for that, however I definitely don't envy your position.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 02:58:45
content:
  Why not bring the developer(s) responsible for reviewing the GitHub source code or making their own patch into this chat so they can answer questions? I feel like everyone here would appreciate being able to speak with those working on this project. Especially for those who have or will put money into this, they want re assurance that their money is actually going somewhere. Assurance more than just Unreal asset packs or Mixamo animations


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:00:24
content:
  Solirax, in my eyes, is completely beyond the ability to be trusted at their word and needs to be backed up by hard proof. This proof shouldn’t be an issue to produce, and transparency beyond meaningless platitudes is required.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:03:01
edit_date: 2023-12-14 03:04:05
content:
  I’d absolutely love to believe that this project is something that would actually live up to the legacy that Neos (and now Resonite) has. Absolutely nothing that made either of those platforms appealing in the first place is on display in any of this promotional material. Please bring the team responsible for working on this project in here and prove that wrong


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:14:37
content:
  Both would be really nice tho. And I've been pretty good this year, I'm counting on Santa but I'm not holding my breath


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:19:29
content:
  It is very clear that developers can spend time not developing to talk to the community. In fact, it’s a good idea. They shouldn’t be locked in a code dungeon 24/7. It’s a job, they have free time. I won’t pretend for one moment that the entire team is so swamped 24/7 that they can’t as much as poke a toe into any official communication channel


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:25:23
content:
  And if you're the sort of person that doesn't like talking to customers and users directly, it's very tiring.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:27:51
content:
  To be honest, that’s what they signed up for. Developers sometimes talk with clients. I know that all too well. 

  Additionally, I’d imagine anyone sinking a considerable amount of money into this project would at least want to see the people responsible with building it. All Solirax has to show right now is a couple surface level teasers showing next to no mechanics combined with lots of stock assets. People won’t invest in a “trust me bro”. People need hard proof that their money is going to something promising. None of that has been done here


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:28:27
content:
  It was clear what the person signed up for when they set the expectations they don't want to be public


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:29:13
content:
  Oh, and also, we don’t even need a two way conversation with said devs. A technical breakdown explaining what’s going on, what they’re working on, and their goals is leagues better than anything that Solirax has said thus far.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:29:48
content:
  Literally any proof that meaningful things are happening is better than anything that’s being done right now


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:30:28
content:
  I personally don't think this person can really say much here that changes anything because people are being judged on their actions anyway. So it's really a waste of time, particularly when people are so critical of any statements.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:32:14
content:
  People are critical of these statements because they’ve all been incredibly surface level and ultimately mean next to nothing. I’m looking for actual statements on what’s going on that will instill actual confidence in this project. Something better than a “we are working hard on this. More to come in a deadline we will miss the first time”


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:33:03
content:
  It's clear the decision is to focus on delivering something rather than worry about placating the chat because in the end, something needs to be done and not just talk.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:35:49
content:
  Communication is required, and your implication that one or the other has to happen and that meaningful status updates are some kind of Herculean task that will steal so much time from developers is just incorrect. They are delivering nothing because they are showing nothing. It’s not just about placating this chat, it’s about demonstrating any kind of right to exist to speculating investors. 

  If I wanted to dump immense amounts of money into a project, I’d want one with transparent progress reports, meaningful information, and constant dialogue between investors and the company. None of that is on display here


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 03:40:03
content:
  Communication was provided, you're still unhappy and there is no further interest in saying much more because it's just diminishing returns in this chat. We've seen what happens when they communicate more, a waste of time. There is nothing to invest in right now so there is no point communicating about it until they have something worthwhile to offer.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 13:21:54
content:
  Every time there's any acknowledgement of negative feedback, it's always a singular negative statement, and it's always the one that allows them a response with the least responsibility. For instance, responding to iricks criticism, only because it allows for the "you misspelled something, so you must not know what you're talking about" get out jail free card.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 20:19:59
content:
  Given the amount of shit flung at the current public Neos team members, it shouldn't be surprising at all that they don't want to be public to avoid being dogpiled by everyone here. I mean, why would they?


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 20:25:31
content:
  There's also the "it's their job, not their social life" aspect too. Not everyone wants to bring their work home with them.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 20:59:17
content:
  Legit, the way most companies handle that is one way communication. E.g. Dev logs and curated q&as. I'm also not demanding the devs step forward and name themselves, but hearing how the technical challenges are being addressed, what roadblocks are being experienced, etc goes a long way to keeping the project transparent.


type: message
date: 2023-12-14 21:01:40
content:
  Radio silence is not a good operating policy for a project that relies on the creative output of its user base. Soon (TM) means small devs end up betting on deliverable dates. That doesn't work so well.


type: message
date: 2023-12-15 17:56:36
content:
  This is still a burning question for me. I cannot at all bring myself to believe any of this is being taken seriously by any part of the team without a good reason for this.


type: message
date: 2023-12-18 03:36:42
edit_date: 2023-12-18 03:39:44
content:
  If neos cleans up their act enough for them to have a future maybe. At least, I assume this is about that.


type: message
date: 2023-12-18 14:12:15
content:
  Hey guys, long time no see 👋
  I’m (still) a Patreon member, paying for my sub every month.
  Does anyone know when or if at all the credits amount get updated in the Neos account?


type: message
date: 2023-12-19 01:12:14
content:
  Hi Martijn, NCR from Patreon should be accessible in your Neos account. I've located your email – apologies for the delay in responding. I'm currently looking into your issue and will get in touch with you soon to sort it out. 
  Can I presume your Patreon email is the same as your Neos email? Thank you so much for your support and patience 🙏💙


type: message
date: 2023-12-20 08:22:34
content:
  Hi Martijn, just to follow up on this, it should be now all in a good order. Let us know in case you have any other issues☺️


type: message
date: 2023-12-20 12:00:07
content:
  Hello Andrea, thank you.
  I see I have received 97 NCR which has a fiat value of about 10 euro’s.
  How was this calculated? And for how many months is this? 
  I’ve been a paying contributor throughout the whole bear market 😬
  When I became a Patreon it stated I would be receiving half of my contribution back in NCR pay outs. That’s why I let me membership continue to run.


type: message
date: 2023-12-20 12:04:41
content:
  wiki.neosvr.com/Patreon

  “The amount of NCR given out to patrons differs by tier. However, it is usually equivalent to roughly represent approximately 50 - 70% of the tier’s subscription price.”


type: message
date: 2023-12-20 12:23:28
content:
  That one is very outdated.
  After the dump, patreon ncr was at ico price levels, while the trading value dropped.
  So while it is maybe 0.11$ or something at the moment, patreon is at the ico rate of... Over 20$ per ncr? Not sure what the current state is.


type: message
date: 2023-12-20 13:38:23
content:
  You're receiving at about 50% of the mint value which used to be listed on the website with the old version however that doesn't appear to exist any more. Speaking of the whitepaper even refers to this being the case to check on the website to refer to the mint... which is no longer there so you could calculate it based on existing ncr in circulation.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 09:56:33
content:
  1. It’s still on the (new) website 
  2. They never told me they were going to stop paying out
  3. I’ve been a Patreon member, supporting this project by paying 150 per month from before the whole Frooxius drama.
  4. It doesn’t say mint value anywhere. The real value is the market value. 

  When I became a Patreon, these were the conditions and since everything is down in writing, it’s equal to an investment contract. 

  I don’t understand what’s in it for you to try to help them wiggle out with assumptions and making things up, while they have been receiving my money / support the whole time. How much have you been investing in this project per month? 🤔 Easy talk when it’s not your money aye.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 09:59:47
content:
  Had been Patreon supporter years before too so what?
  Im not helping them out, more tried to warn about supporting them futher.

  And please dont say it is 'investment' its still a speculation asset. We have never seen any proof of where the ICO money went.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:01:08
content:
  Regarding number 3, Readun definitely was a Patreon member, I've seen the icon in his username on Neos before.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:03:35
content:
  Most investments are speculations. If you buy real estate or stocks. Certainly doesn’t mean there are no rules for both parties 😉


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:07:09
edit_date: 2023-12-21 10:15:04
content:
  I still see Neos as metaverse product having a good potential. I wasn’t happy with Frooxius when he started venting an internal dispute online for the world to see. It was very unprofessional and it cost a lot of people a lot of money. I’m taking about millions here.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:09:45
edit_date: 2023-12-21 10:14:58
content:
  One positive thing about crypto is the transparency. And the same goes for membership being payed through PayPal 😊


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:11:29
content:
  I understand. But they separate ways and I see you are still here too 😊
  Probably not just to FUD the project


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:12:54
content:
  I feel like I dont need to continue, as this has hard vibes of previous trolls.

  I just tried to warn and look a bit more into it yourself.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:15:19
content:
  I think we're all waiting to see this, the vast majority of discussions on this chat though are people asking for updates.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 10:29:20
content:
  It will come. We are just awakening from the bear market. During the bullrun it will probably be good news after good news


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 20:15:54
content:
  If you want to be an armchair lawyer, let me tell you this. When you buy something, the product page is what matters. The Wikipedia page isn’t the product page. Furthermore, it can be freely edited. Attached is the product page. It says you get a fixed amount of NCR. This value was updated as the mint progressed, but notice how it isn’t some percentage of whatever value. The argument isn’t whether it means mint or market value, because the payout is clearly listed. A fixed amount of NCR. If that’s what you get, then nothing wrong has happened. 

  If you want a good comparison, people wanted to sue Hello Games for all the broken promises regarding No Man’s Sky made during interviews. However, when determining if it was false advertising, they only check the sales pages, as that’s what is regulated. The sales pages were kosher so Hello games did nothing wrong.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 20:18:34
content:
  To TLDR, the Patreon didn’t say you’d get a percentage of market value or mint value, merely a fixed number. This number could change based on the minting progress, but no mention of this is in the tier itself. Only the fixed value. Sorry you paid a lot of money without paying attention to what you were subscribing to


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 21:43:11
content:
  The Wiki is user created and maintained and thus is definitely likely to be wrong. The Patreon itself directly contradicts it.


type: message
date: 2023-12-21 21:56:51
content:
  I've said it before and I'll say it again, get enough NCR and you've got a neat little Dropbox alternative.


type: message
date: 2023-12-22 01:25:07
content:
  Sorry, question was for Karl primary. - How long +- i must waiting for NCR transfer into my metamask wallet?


type: message
date: 2023-12-22 01:25:51
content:
  Oh. I know transfers between accounts can fail, but transfers to wallets seemed to be okay in the past. Maybe system changed?


type: message
date: 2023-12-22 11:22:05
content:
  i just logged into neos to update some of my things in there but my group seems to have disappeared is there any way to get it back?


type: message
date: 2023-12-22 14:59:37
content:
  @malooniac Can we handle this by email instead of here? 
  I had sent an email before coming here. 
  Is the “hello@neos.com” e-mail adres still valid / working?


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 01:07:14
content:
  Hi Martjin, yes I have received you email thank you and I have forwarded it further. I will come back to you, apologies for the lag in responding, people are now off for Christmas so communication is a bit slower but I have flagged it up. Thank you so much for your patience and ongoing support. 😊


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 01:09:08
content:
  Hi Viridis, The transactions are processed instantly. If the address was correct, the most likely explanation is that the wallet just isn't following the NCR contract so the transaction could have been already there. If you still fail to receive it please DM me your address so we can check it. 😊


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 15:38:49
content:
  Oh this is funny. You don’t even need to build freeimage anymore! YDMS has built the dlls. It is now literally as easy as a drag and drop. 

  https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage/releases/tag/3.18.0-ydm-0.1.4


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 15:39:38
content:
  “But we need to check for security” 

  That’s a lie. If you were to do that, you could build it yourself and have fixed this already. A code audit doesn’t take this long. This issue should be urgent in your eyes as long as Neos is freely distributed


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 18:45:57
content:
  It's not about the users safety. It's not about doing what's right. It's not even about taking any action for themselves. It's about theatrics, and pushing blame off themselves. I called them on their hypocrisy in blaming the old devs on the wait, but they never responded, so I'm going to assume they cannot give an actual reason why they're acting the way they are, and because the evidence we have only really shows incompetence and/or malice, that's going to be my conclusion.


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 20:04:45
edit_date: 2023-12-23 20:05:14
content:
  @malooniac please address this. This is the fix. Not even the source code for the fix. Just a drag and drop. Any focus anywhere else besides implementing this fix is a disservice to Neos users, as it shows you have priorities above user safety. That’s no way to offer such a product. Either use this build or spend time doing nothing but auditing its source before building it yourself. Anything else is an insult to Neos players


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 20:47:58
content:
  They have flip flopped between “we want Froox to do all the work for us” and “we need to inspect the code to make sure it’s safe”


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 20:48:56
content:
  They’ve had the code available basically since the exploit was discovered and have done nothing. Now they have the built fix and continue to do nothing. They just do not care


type: message
date: 2023-12-23 23:56:30
content:
  Thank you 🙏 
  If we don’t speak each other again the coming days, I’m wishing you and of course everyone here and at Neos a Merry Christmas 🎄


type: message
date: 2023-12-24 09:24:33
content:
  ☺️ Thank you ! Wishing you and everyone Merry Christmas as well and I hope everyone gets to spend the holiday time in peace and in good health with people that matter to you! 🎄


type: message
date: 2023-12-27 01:35:14
content:
  its done, for some reason i was use different webbrowser and it was working, weirsd why Chrome and Edge dont work with this but its all o.k. now thanks


type: message
date: 2023-12-28 06:37:22
edit_date: 2023-12-28 06:37:26
content:
  So what happened to this? The account has been everywhere in the twitter replies to the official account. Not many people there discussing things on Twitter will be keeping track of what is said here, and won't know.


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 02:50:24
content:
  Hi everyone, just to let you know, Neos Steam launcher has been updated with the FreeImage patch. We will work on implementing it into the launcher on our website as well in due course. Your patience and support are greatly appreciated as always, thank you!


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 14:23:52
edit_date: 2023-12-29 14:27:45
content:
  May I ask what's with the removed files which SteamDB is reporting: https://steamdb.info/patchnotes/13060091/ ?


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 14:36:44
content:
  @malooniac Hello, I would like to ask if NCR still has value in neos projects? Why are NCR prices so low?


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 14:56:51
edit_date: 2023-12-29 14:59:12
content:
  It is just a bunch of pdb files that are useful for debugging. They are not needed for users and just make the download a little bit larger. although it would be nice if it was briefly mentioned as part of a changelog. Just a 'we also removed some unneeded files for a smaller download'


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 14:59:36
content:
  Ah right I didn't notice the extension, then it makes sense. But it's odd that they were included in the release in the first place


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 15:13:55
content:
  Atleast what was shown as changed in the above it looks like CloudX.Shared.dll was also changed, not sure what those changes are myself


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 15:15:41
content:
  How did you update the freeimage library? Did you go with just using the recompiled build that they provided or did your code review conclude just right after the dlls were released


type: message
date: 2023-12-29 23:49:58
edit_date: 2023-12-29 23:52:32
content:
  The context for this is lacking the question was open and should be able to be mentioned without being attacked. Otherwise I'd suggest your comment for yourself.


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 02:34:48
content:
  altho ofc there is now positions that were in-game like moderator and mentor that would need to be refilled


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:08:55
content:
  They did file updates. They replaced freeimage and trimmed some extra files like the Minecraft world import files


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:09:17
content:
  You’re literally wrong. Solirax doesn’t own the code. That’s why Resonite uses FrooxEngine and Solirax can’t


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:10:17
content:
  I can only assume that the agreement they struck is that Solirax can keep distributing neos but they can’t get the source code


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:11:31
content:
  For all we know maybe Froox did give permission for the source code to Solirax.

  At the end of the day, a single game update doesn't confirm either way whether they have source code access or not.


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:14:21
content:
  If neos is a car, they didn't do anything to the engine. All they did was replace the car locks (freeimage), and change the paint job (removed some extra files).

  Nothing in *this most recent update* validates what either First said, or what you said, Alex.


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:15:39
edit_date: 2023-12-30 04:15:41
content:
  Neos getting updates Does give hope that Neos is, in fact going somewhere, Alex. I'm not debating that.


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:16:36
content:
  I’ve modded Neos before. I’ve read decompiled source. A lot of that project wasn’t really set up for the future. Only now are they making a CICD pipeline for Resonite. It took Froox himself a bit to move the build process from his pc to his laptop to develop abroad. That, plus the sheer complexity of the data model the engine runs on is most certainly formidable to learn


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:19:21
content:
  There is some nice mods out there that add cool function and with open source it will get even more cool features


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:21:52
content:
  So neos is still a good option and I bet universities also would like a game that's more sfw which neos is


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:23:02
content:
  Nsfw content is only allowed in private sessions in which all members are over 18 and consent to such content


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:24:11
content:
  In neos yeah but in resonite well I hope that they read the GitHub and fix their nsfw issue because currently it's a 16+ game and not 18+ so I am not quite happy with things there atm


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 04:24:39
content:
  If you see nsfw content in public sessions, I’d recommend making a moderation ticket, as again, it isn’t allowed


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 05:41:41
content:
  You do realize the guideline that you didn't like in the other game is exactly the same in here, right?


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 07:19:58
edit_date: 2023-12-30 07:20:50
content:
  Nah karel didn't like nsfw being allowed in the game to begin with so the rules for neos probably don't allow it now


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 20:05:34
content:
  The latest Neos video is filmed in the Unity client: https://twitter.com/neos_vr/status/1733054368297910580


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 20:09:45
content:
  The biggest tell is the mixamo player animations, which is extremely hard to do in frooxengine. The second biggest tell is the text rendering.


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 20:42:13
content:
  When the camera pans across all the dancing bots in the last scene, the background is glimmering in that "ray trace noise" kind of look, which is something Neos Unity does not support


type: message
date: 2023-12-30 20:44:41
edit_date: 2023-12-30 20:46:24
content:
  It looks more like temporal artifacting to me... Actually wait, we're probably both right, raytracing uses a lot of temporal effects. I wish we had the trailer available somewhere that wouldn't crunch it into illegibility


type: message
date: 2023-12-31 18:24:56
edit_date: 2023-12-31 18:25:30
content:
  Who is "we"? I'd say the continued development of the platform and it's internals is extremely important, especially for it to have any longevity.


type: message
date: 2024-01-01 17:29:18
edit_date: 2024-01-01 17:32:03
content:
  Oh wow, they didn't clear every trace of the Jan 1st release on here. They deleted one of the Twitter announcements of it tho


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 01:01:15
content:
  Hey, don't internalize that kind of negativity. There is nothing wrong with you. People have let you down, but that doesn't translate to a character flaw.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 06:03:52
content:
  Account UI is offline. I'm guessing it's either it's an update coming, or it's a temporary outage with no changes like with the Wiki.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 10:47:58
edit_date: 2024-01-02 10:48:31
content:
  Karel  hasn't said a word to the community about the update, but he does have time to hit the like button on Twitter. @malooniac What the hell…?😅


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 14:17:49
content:
  Who cares about Froox anymore, he left, fine; let's focus on the future of this place

  It would have been nice to announce any delays though, this whole thing doesn't looks very professional


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 15:11:15
content:
  They do but *some* sort of communication would be nice if a release date comes with nothing released on it. Even a “hey we know we said this date but things happened, and we are rapidly working on getting out as soon as we can”


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 15:13:10
content:
  Yeah, silence is definitely not the way to go especially when you announce something for a precise day.

  I'd say doing that encourages FUD around the project and isn't good as there is already a lot of it floating around.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 15:38:20
content:
  I disagree that they are so incredibly busy that they have no time to update the community about a project they said would release on a certain day which didn’t release. 

  They did have enough time to delete one of the tweets mentioning the date though


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 15:39:52
content:
  “If they’re silent, they’re working”

  I don’t believe that anymore. If they’re silent, it’s because they either can’t or won’t communicate with the community which is voluntarily handing them money, and that’s just shameful. It is absolutely shameful that they care about the community so little that they can’t spend 5 minutes at most writing an update about why exactly they missed the release date


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 17:30:57
content:
  So many of us have been voicing our concerns with garbage behaviour and red flags for months or even years, but you've always called FUD. I don't understand how you flipped so instantaneously... But at least you're starting to get it too.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 21:13:46
edit_date: 2024-01-02 21:19:17
content:
  I think it's kinda lacking since your primary focus should be your community it doesn't take more than ten seconds to do up a small message just to say that there's delays or somethings come up it looks cheep, mismanaged and unprofessional especially for people that have and are investing in the platform


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 21:29:33
content:
  Man, gonna be real honest with you, I don't care about storage, I'm here to make the money I invested back


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 21:51:40
content:
  Honestly, I'd write it off at this point. We might see a return, but I'd try to adjust expectations to see that as a pleasant surprise. It is going to be an uphill battle to rebuild the creative community after all of this. Not to mention it's sort of clear that the company is scrambling to try and regain their brain drain.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 21:57:18
content:
  We're back at day 1 start up. Which is frustrating given we used to be the most advanced platform in the industry. We are gambling that we can leapfrog where we were with a new team, building with new technologies.

  Which is not a bet I would take willingly, given I'm not even allowed to know who I'm betting on to build the damn thing. But that is where we are.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 22:06:52
content:
  I don't know anyone at Dropbox, but I do know quite a few furries in other major cloud storage providers.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 22:12:48
content:
  Though I'm pretty sure Dropbox is using one of my partner's libraries for their distributed video reviewing platform, if that counts XD


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 22:13:10
edit_date: 2024-01-02 22:13:31
content:
  Okay so I suppose the selling point would be the boopability of said storagefurries. Because with neos you can boop em. I've never booped a dropboxfurry


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 22:46:02
content:
  @malooniac You are being paid by my investments. You have an obligation to respect your investors and answer their questions. And I think you have a cushy job that you're not too busy to answer.


type: message
date: 2024-01-02 23:59:20
content:
  Hello. Yes, there has been a delay, issue with API to be precise but all good now. We will publish the preview of the world in NeosVR today so you will be able to go in and try it out, collect Stardust etc. Some elements still need to be ironed out but it's and MVP at least. Thanks for your patience as always.


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 01:10:52
content:
  "TypeError: t.stardust_level is undefined" causes the entire UI not to load because it is uncaught, at least on Firefox.


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 01:12:06
content:
  Wonder if it’s because Andrea has stardust already

  If you’ve never received any the value can’t be populated


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 01:13:38
content:
  So to be precise, you cannot log in at all or you can log in but nothing shows? Can you please DM a screenshot so we can go from there. Thank you


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 14:13:39
content:
  Hello, yes it has been published in Neos as a preview. You can check it out just please bear in mind that we still aiming to fix a few things but you should be able to pop in and collect Stardust. The actual staking is a a few weeks away. Some official post on X will also come out in due course. Thanks and enjoy😊


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 14:15:04
content:
  Also the official account under which this has been published is Murphy Cooper. Anything else has nothing to do with us and will be deleted.


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 14:54:47
content:
  For the web version, the current situation is that the minig button is inactive and cannot be clicked.


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 15:32:18
content:
  i have to say, the dev thats working on coopers planetl did organize both the mining gun and the world neatly with nicely structured paths and logix
  looks good to far!


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 15:41:49
content:
  dev mightve goofed and forgot to change the permissions tho so if you guys need some help feel free to dm me


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 15:43:57
content:
  Sounds like something to take up with binance. Once it leaves the internal Neos wallet, the team has no control


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 15:47:16
content:
  I think so, I chatted Binance support, and they asked me to make sure I have a balance of $500 BUSD in my Binance account before submitting the necessary info ℹ️ they asked me to.


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 16:08:07
content:
  Well it’s either that or you don’t get your NCR. Sending it to the wrong address is permanent and there is no takesies backsies


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 16:10:00
content:
  No problem. I sold off my NCR for a grand total of $700 when it was around $1. To say I was shitting my pants during each transaction is an understatement. Moving crypto is terrifying tbh


type: message
date: 2024-01-03 16:45:00
content:
  @malooniac do you know if the lnl relays will be coming back online anytime soon?
  i have strict firewall rules and thus a strict nat so i need the relay to connect to headless servers and other users if they're not using steam networking sockets


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 03:27:02
content:
  The mining button in the web UI remains inactive as we're addressing some technical aspects. But it will be linked with NeosVR Cooper’s Planet version, not with the web version as that is still in development.

  As for the timeline of web version of Cooper’s, we might have some preliminary iterations by February however that is a loose estimation so please let’s avoid setting rigid expectations.🙏

  Regarding the other two buttons in web UI for Neos Hub and MTC that is the same issue - we are working on necessary fixes.😊


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 03:34:38
content:
  I get it, thanks. so if I mine Stardust now before staking is released, will it count towards my staking percentage later?


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 05:27:04
edit_date: 2024-01-04 05:29:27
content:
  When I mined the asteroids and collected the stardust in one session, the staking percentage on the website rose from 4% to 4.34%.


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 05:31:08
content:
  It seems that you get a certain amount of meteors/asteroids, not sure if it's daily or some other timeframe, then it's a random amount of stardust per meteor/asteroid, which then ups your staking percentage.


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 09:18:02
content:
  This does work if your friend has an open/moderate Nat but I don't feel comfortable sending all my internet traffic through a friend so having the relays back online would be better


type: message
date: 2024-01-04 17:28:43
content:
  maybe there's ways to filter the applications that use it, but understandable
  relays should come back up and be working for everyone..


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 02:53:48
content:
  What to do when the starduster is full but not all meteors got mined yet is there a way to empty it and collect more?


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 05:17:37
content:
  Hello😊, I can see there are a few questions regarding the mechanism of Cooper's Planet. So I will try to clarify..

  The maximum staking percentage is 20% pa. That is if you reach the 'Multiverse' rank. For more details on the ranking system, please refer to the whitepaper: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/61e55a05ff9ce033ad45f7fa/64dafa270d0e402b8fe044e6_Neos%20Whitepaper%201.10.pdf

  As for the progression, the system is designed for rapid progression at the beginning, which slows down as you approach the higher tiers (There are 3 tiers - Blue, Red and Gold). 

  There's a daily limit of 4 meteors that can be mined, and each meteor contains between 1 to 5 Stardust nuggets that you can collect. This means you'll get a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 20 nuggets per day. Please just bear with us as there might be some inconsistencies in the meteor count in this preview version. 

  As well as issues with Stardust tank filling - when tank is full, and all Stardust is collected for the day, you should receive auditory feedback indicating that the daily limit of Stardust collection has been reached. This cue is currently not in place. 
  However once you've collected all nuggets, the gun will no longer break down meteors. So no need to do anything else, you can just return next day and collect more. ☺️
  We're working on improvements and fixes where possible. 

  And then there's eventually going to be the mentioned Unreal/Web version which we have in development, where you will be able to do the same. Just without having to launch the whole NeosVR.


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 15:04:47
content:
  Honestly who cares? They’ll have a good laugh, so be it

  On our side, we’re having more stuff added and that’s all we want


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 15:40:26
content:
  The coopers planet asteroid mining, sure. The underlying engine which got Neos to where it is now? Hell no.


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:07:44
content:
  Is this even allowed because it seems mining in there can be done there which adds towards the quota but it seems you can only do it either in there or in neos because good is you can't go over the 20 a day


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:10:45
edit_date: 2024-01-05 16:10:59
content:
  It's done over a simple pain http request so if you can write one in another language like option you could just automate it without ever touching Neos


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:17:12
content:
  lol. I’m talking about getting frooxengine into unreal. Even if it was possible according to the license agreements, ain’t nobody putting the time into that


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:17:46
content:
  The web and unreal versions won’t have any hint of Neos’ build tools. Or at the very least, they will be an attempt to recreate them. Good luck without the data model


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:21:02
content:
  Nah it's about coopers planet being possible to play on multiple platforms in the other one it worked right away but yeah for unreal a bit of work is needed to get it in there but still will look really cool with unreals graphics


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 16:22:31
content:
  If all you care about is a less fun version of cookie clicker, then sure. If you care at all about Neos and its creation tools, then it sucks


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 17:20:02
content:
  Yeah, this move towards crypto would have been fine, if it weren't accompanied with such a massive disregard for what made neos unique. The people running the show have shown no care for their roots. They had such a solid niche almost completely locked down that they can probably never get back now.


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 17:42:24
content:
  Not probably. Definitely. They lost each and every person that made Neos what it is, and Resonite is now all of Neos plus way more. Neos doesn’t and will never have any appeal to the community which left it


type: message
date: 2024-01-05 17:43:23
content:
  Everyone makes mistakes, you can’t see the future. But a $50 million mistake? Woof. I can’t imagine what losing that much feels like


type: message
date: 2024-01-10 15:39:18
content:
  Karel @malooniac Does Noes start marketing once staking is launched? The staking system needs a lot of people to participate and give them a reason to hold. I'm worried that there will be more supply than demand.


type: message
date: 2024-01-11 06:39:53
content:
  I should point out in the preview world, they forgot to turn off grabbable on a lot of things, the meteors and the portal to name some


type: message
date: 2024-01-11 12:38:32
content:
  No, the project is not dead. 😊
  We have just recently released the Cooper's Planet preview available in NeosVR, we are making fixes to be able to release the polished bug-free version, with staking probably available from February if everything goes well. 
  We also have the Unreal client in development, of which Cooper's Planet will be the first available world/iteration to try and test.


type: message
date: 2024-01-13 22:14:58
content:
  Hi,

  Can any one briefly tell me what’s happening with the project and if there is any roadmap or release to be announced soon? 

  Thanks 🙏🏻


type: message
date: 2024-01-14 21:57:04
content:
  Did this happen in the Neos metaverse?

  There's not really many other branded metaverse VR platforms I'm aware of.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/05/metaverse-sexual-assault-vr-game-online-safety-meta


type: message
date: 2024-01-14 22:05:03
content:
  I’m skeptical about that whole article, the main source is the Daily Mail which is some British sensationalist rag


type: message
date: 2024-01-14 22:06:30
edit_date: 2024-01-14 22:08:08
content:
  I’d personally avoid getting my news from the “opinions” tab of a journal citing a tabloid known for spreading false information as its sole source


type: message
date: 2024-01-14 22:15:26
content:
  Looking around seems all articles around that specific event all lead back to the daily mail article
  No link to any official police statements, no links to any official proceedings or anything


type: message
date: 2024-01-14 22:37:32
content:
  I looked at the BBC's article and they seem to cite multiple sources for different things, including the police commissioner I spoke about


type: message
date: 2024-01-15 03:27:36
content:
  Hi Stanislav☺️,

  Thank you for your question. 
  You should find your NCR balance if you log in to your account via our web interface https://account.neos.com.
  If you have any troubles accessing it or other questions please email us on hello@neos.com or you can DM me directly. Thank you!


type: message
date: 2024-01-15 03:30:03
content:
  Hello! Of course, I'm happy to update you on current developments.☺️

  We're working towards launching gamified staking in NeosVR, hopefully starting from February. Right now, you can preview this feature/world in NeosVR, just find Cooper's Planet Preview published by Murphy Cooper. 
  (It will soon be linked via the web UI as well) 

  On there you can try mining meteors and collecting Stardust. More on Stardust in the Whitepaper https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/61e55a05ff9ce033ad45f7fa/62e7cc2493f3fb5fe28ffd08_Neos%20Whitepaper%20Version%201.06.pdf. 
  We are just working out some final game mechanics issues, which unfortunately caused a delay with anticipated full launch.

  In parallel, we're developing the Unreal client, with Cooper's Planet set to be its first available world in VR. This is a significant step forward and our next goal is to make this experience also available in web browsers. 

  We are also going to implement additional parts of the web UI, specifically the World browser and Contacts (Chat). Our approach is to work on different parts gradually, allowing us to test and iterate effectively.😊


type: message
date: 2024-01-15 03:30:52
content:
  Regarding marketing, at this stage we believe that investing in marketing would not bring significant benefits. However, once we launch staking, we anticipate being able to get listed on multiple exchanges. This should provide a boost to our visibility.😊


type: message
date: 2024-01-15 12:28:05
content:
  it's a neat product. I like that they're making something I already do regularly more mainstream. But I'm definitely not the target audience. It'll be outside my price range until it's well past obsolete.


type: message
date: 2024-01-15 12:30:34
content:
  yup, the device is primarily targetting their ecosystem which youll see with applewatch, mac and ios integrations


type: message
date: 2024-01-16 14:31:53
content:
  It’s been turned off via azure? Was this intentional or did someone forget to pay the bills? @malooniac


type: message
date: 2024-01-17 00:03:31
content:
  Hello, 😊can you please elaborate a bit more on what do you mean by that? Are you talking about NeosVR or web accounts UI? The account.neos.com should be now working fine so please try again. Many thanks.


type: message
date: 2024-01-17 00:05:15
content:
  That one was broken at that time, yes. Now its working again (But loading a little slow)
  Not sure about the passwort reset from Taj R


type: message
date: 2024-01-17 21:04:43
content:
  NCR’s mint price is a result of its contract. The more that is minted, the more the price goes up. The swap price is current 10 cents US. The minting price is $10.40 as of Feb 12th 2022 as seen on the Wayback machine. I have to use the Wayback machine because the mint price has been removed from the modern site. 

  What does this mean? It means that the way to introduce NCR into the economy is so expensive that it makes no sense to acquire NCR via minting. This means that NCR has no growth, and has had no growth ever since its highest peak back in 2021


type: message
date: 2024-01-21 17:55:35
content:
  I don’t know, lol. But they did spend millions on buybacks when it was crashing only to provide exit liquidity and not help the price at all. Probably would have been more wise to hold onto that until after the crash then slowly try and stimulate the coin but that’s no longer an option


type: message
date: 2024-01-21 17:57:22
content:
  I have no money invested in NCR, so I don’t care how it ends up, but I personally cannot see a future where its value goes up after what happened to it. Not unless they can magically remove its price history and clear evidence of a pump and dump which instills absolutely 0 confidence in investing. The only people left it seems are people stuck holding the bag who want others to buy in so their losses aren’t so bad, but I don’t think any newcomers want to touch NCR with a 10 foot pole


type: message
date: 2024-01-21 19:17:17
content:
  A real commitment to an accessable asset market could do it. But we'd have to simplify the on ramp significantly. That likely means a cash infusion and making some sort of deal with a payment processor to ease transaction friction.

  But yeah I don't see this bouncing back by using the typical crypto playbook.


type: message
date: 2024-01-21 19:19:06
content:
  And that’s exactly what ISNT on the roadmap for Neos. It’s just mining rocks and crypto stuff. With these crypto projects, it’s a piece of software that is on the side with the crypto being the main focus. A proper asset store would make the crypto be the thing running second fiddle, but that’s not the point of these projects


type: message
date: 2024-01-22 00:44:38
content:
  @malooniac Why are you letting this person stay here instead of banning him? Ban negative people and create a healthy community.


type: message
date: 2024-01-22 06:17:00
content:
  You sound like the annoying kid in school that would ask teachers for more homework. 
  I have money invested in this, you probably don’t and are just here to troll by asking everyone to be banned.


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 22:40:20
content:
  I must say, I’m disappointed they banned my other account. You’re right. The response to criticism is terrible


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 22:41:00
edit_date: 2024-01-23 22:44:05
content:
  @malooniac please, instead of banning me silently, address what I said. It reflects incredibly poorly on this project when you cannot do that


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 22:42:38
edit_date: 2024-01-23 22:44:17
content:
  When you have nothing to say in the face of criticism, it does nothing but shake the trustworthiness you so desperately need. Give your financial backers a reason to believe that you’ll deliver a product worth investing in.


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 22:47:27
content:
  Damaging my credibility because of a mistake. Great work. Really setting myself back here. I’m leaving these messages up


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 22:49:07
content:
  @malooniac my apologies. I wrote the above passage assuming I was banned because I didn’t see the chat properly. I now realize I was not.


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 23:28:38
content:
  @malooniac I'd like to know if Karel  is still as passionate as he used to be. I miss him interacting with the community on Discord back in the day.


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 23:33:58
content:
  Neos is still active as a thing, and Andrea gives updates on the staking of Cooper's Planet, which if you scroll through the pinned messages, will give you a far better explanation than I could give you in five minutes


type: message
date: 2024-01-23 23:39:53
content:
  There was a split. The team that made the software for Neos left and founded a new project in the same vein. Karel is left with the old compiled game and Neos' name


type: message
date: 2024-01-24 00:01:06
content:
  Good to see you back under your normal name lolol, I'm glad you didn't get banned, you're one of my favorite neos historians


type: message
date: 2024-01-25 00:17:31
content:
  Hi Vitalik, thank you for your interest, you can email us on hello@neos.com however please keep in mind that we receive a large volume of listing inquiries, and may not have the capacity to respond individually to each one. 

  Thank you for understanding and best of luck 🙏 ☺️


type: message
date: 2024-01-25 00:31:06
edit_date: 2024-01-25 00:38:15
content:
  Hence why I am saying we receive large amount of proposals😁. Unfortunately perhaps less than 1% is genuine and worth our time. I feel for the people who actually try to come up with something real as their attempts are unfortunately overshadowed by this sentiment. Thanks for the comment and care☺️


type: message
date: 2024-01-25 15:58:55
content:
  @malooniac please could you provide an update on the development? Will there be integration to the Apple Vision Pro?


type: message
date: 2024-01-27 01:01:27
content:
  It was on Meta Horizons, I remember it when it happened. It was a garbage article written by idiots. None of the avatars involved even had legs (as it was Meta Horizons) nevermind genitalia. The whole thing was sensationalist nonsense written up by someone trying to create controversy.


type: message
date: 2024-01-27 01:04:42
content:
  The headset likely needs some third party drivers to work for PCVR so that's likely some way out, if ever.


type: message
date: 2024-01-27 01:05:57
content:
  I find it hilarious that Nintendo will give you an SDK that works with even the personal version of Unity for working with Switch, but of course you need some pro edition for Apple.


type: message
date: 2024-01-27 01:09:33
content:
  How nice of them to put a large emphasis on "you can watch stuff with it" in the marketing and in the end, have almost all the apps that can do that disabled at launch. I was interested in it, not so much anymore.


type: message
date: 2024-01-30 10:05:52
edit_date: 2024-01-30 10:06:13
content:
  The last time we tried to login, nothing was loading anymore, not sure if that's still the case.
  (The actual game, not website.)


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 17:22:24
content:
  The most recent big fall was from 7.9 to 7.5 cents at 9:15am pacific time today with a volume increase to $17k


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 17:30:03
content:
  Where is that pool? I’m looking on uniswap and the only one with any volume over the past week is the USDC pool


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 17:31:30
content:
  One hour ago in order from oldest to newest

  Address X swaps NCR for USDC with $5.05k total value. 
  Address Y swaps NCR for USDC with $7k total value. 
  Address X swaps USDC for NCR with $5.05k total value


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 18:15:44
content:
  Just looking at them, I’m guessing they make a big swap, trigger someone to act, and then they swap again to their benefit?


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 21:19:59
content:
  I propose: unite NCR investors to sue the project team for fraud, set up a joint foundation to get back the intellectual property, and the DAO Foundation will lead the project to start anew!


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 21:33:15
content:
  🤣🤣🤣 bro there's no IP to get back. The team is building the new client in UE now. Even if you managed to get it back it'd be worthless. Best bet is to just use your NCR for what it's best for. Buying storage xD


type: message
date: 2024-01-31 22:31:51
content:
  neos.com is a virtual reality metaverse platform that allows users to explore, create and interact with various virtual content in a shared space. The latest updates of neos.com project are as follows:

  - neos.com released Neos 4.0 version in December 2023, adding support for WebXR, which enables users to access Neos' virtual worlds through browsers¹.
  - neos.com launched Neos Hub in January 2024, a virtual space that integrates social, entertainment, education and business functions, allowing users to easily discover and join various activities and communities in Neos².
  - neos.com started the public sale of Neos Credits (NCR) at the end of January 2024, NCR is the native token of Neos platform, which is used to incentivize content creators, developers and users' participation and contribution³.

  The use cases of NCR token are as follows:

  - NCR can be used to buy, sell and rent various virtual items, services and experiences on Neos platform, such as virtual art, games, education courses, etc³.
  - NCR can be used to reward, donate and vote for your favorite content creators, developers and communities on Neos platform³.
  - NCR can be used to participate in governance and decision-making on Neos platform, influencing the development direction and platform rules of Neos.
  - NCR can be used to obtain storage space, computing resources and bandwidth on Neos platform, optimizing your virtual experience.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 01:07:16
content:
  Hello all😊, I would like to give an update regarding our staking launch. As you are aware, we've already postponed it from the original January date, and I understand that your anticipation is quite high at this point. So I have good news and less good news. 

  Less good news is that we must delay the launch a bit further. We are continuing to experience some complex issues with Neos' functionality that are, unfortunately, proving to be challenging for those working on the Cooper's Planet development. 

  Our priority remains the same –  smooth experience for everyone. And launching staking in the current state would compromise this goal, so it's best to take a little more time. 

  Now good news is that we should soon be in a position to launch the UE version of Cooper's Planet☺️, and ideally, it will be then two pieces of happy news together - staking and Cooper's Planet Unreal✨. I will share some little teaser from Unreal build very soon!

  I understand your sentiment around this and trust me when I say we share the same, if not bigger frustration of not meeting the timeline this time. But I will keep you updated regularly. Your patience and understanding remains much appreciated, thank you!🙏


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 01:13:16
content:
  I didn't buy it on exchange sir..I fell into that trap of controlled price...where after n number of ncr tokens issued they used to increase the price..I started buying at 2 and got up to 30 dollar if I remember correctly. But, in summary, my overall investment which in many thousands worth now 7 dollars.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 01:14:09
content:
  My English is bad so I don't understand, does this mean that staking will also be delayed? Or do you mean that staking will be released with the UE version of CooperPlanet?


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 01:36:48
content:
  Does this mean that staking for the original Neosvr client will be delayed, but staking for the UE version of CooperPlanet will be released soon?


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 08:59:13
content:
  Does this mean that staking for the original Neosvr client will be delayed, but staking for the UE version of CooperPlanet will be released soon? Confusing🤷‍♂️


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 11:12:21
content:
  Both have been delayed, but I think they're saying that one(original neos clinet version of coopers planet) will take longer and the other one (UE version of CooperPlanet) can be launched soon with staking.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 11:49:16
content:
  Staking is literally built-in ETH which NCR runs on, I could make that happen in a day. 
  Seems your devs are incompetent. 
  I see why people here told me I wouldn’t see my money back.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 14:02:07
content:
  I read it a hundred times and understood it. I was confused by the way you characterized delayed staking as happy news. Do you characterize delayed staking as happy news?😅


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 15:47:33
content:
  I believe she was trying to avoid saying it was bad, it's a thing that advertisers and public relations people do in order to soften the blow and make it appear less negative.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 18:10:31
content:
  Not defending them but that's how it is with a lot of companies, I think we all got kind of used to the community involvement and the transparency that went along with it. I'm not saying it's a good thing. But when you do PR every interaction has the potential to make things worse, so limiting your involvement and speech is a pretty normal way companies do that. That being said, knowing the community and the history of neos I'd probably be as transparent and open as possible. This community is extremely knowledgeable and it's a shame to see their wisdom going unused.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 18:24:34
edit_date: 2024-02-01 18:26:55
content:
  I feel like if youre a company thats holding onto strings and rebuilding the last thing you want to lose is any more investment base


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 18:32:32
content:
  Not sure but I kinda feel like they are attempting to distance themselves from the user base with hopes of the relaunch bringing in more crypto-first players. They really don't seem too interested in community assistance, take for example that dll that needed patched last year. Either way I'm still curious enough to stick around.


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 19:06:54
edit_date: 2024-02-01 19:08:16
content:
  True but abandoning current holders is gonna be a pr nightmare on launch because of the current views being viewed by incoming clients


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 21:36:40
content:
  What im saying basically is new people are going to review how they handled this situation as a decision of how stable of an investment neos would be and seeing former investors being held on a limb with no pr is gonna be a bad look


type: message
date: 2024-02-01 23:00:26
content:
  I have a question. What is Cooper's Planet to play for if there is no staking? Who wants to play a boring game of smashing stardusts for no gain? I'm worried it's going to be a lonely game of collecting stardusts while waiting for staking that will be delayed forever.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 03:03:01
content:
  Staking for... what though? It's like accumulating currency for a thing that doesn't exist. I'm just not sure what the point is.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 09:26:30
content:
  Just make money, that’s my goal with crypto. 
  I don’t care about any metaverse or anything, I’m here to invest and have a return. The game is dead anyways, why invest more time in it since they clearly can’t update it.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 10:32:04
edit_date: 2024-02-02 10:36:07
content:
  Karel You've been driving a Tesla lately. I'm jealous of the life of a scammer who uses investors' money to get married and buy a Tesla.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 11:46:42
content:
  See, that's nothing, the game is dead compared to what it was before.
  It would make more sense to shut it down completely given they can't even maintain it.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 12:55:52
content:
  Their silence is because they're working, to quote Andrea:

  "If we are quiet it means we are working."
  https://t.me/c/1314262393/53312


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 13:02:54
edit_date: 2024-02-02 13:04:26
content:
  Because well whats a game without people to invest>develop it and people to play it. I feel like above all the investors here need answers and communication were not talking about pennies here.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 13:38:05
content:
  More like because they're trying to get enough time to make shit up why their incompetent team hasn't delivered something other projects made years ago.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 14:59:54
content:
  It literally took them months to impliment a fix that had readily avaliable patches in public domain. But we believe theyre gonna build an entite game from the ground up?


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 15:00:45
content:
  All I want is for them to add staking, I don't care about any game, as I said before, it's completely dead.


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:22:00
content:
  As someone part of that community, that’s entirely correct. 

  Anyone who cared about Neos itself moved to Resonite since the experience also moved over. Nearly anyone who cared about the crypto stayed, but they didn’t play Neos to begin with


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:22:50
content:
  All that’s left here is an un-updatable platform with an associated cryptocurrency with a giant black mark on it


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:23:24
content:
  They’re trying to basically salvage a new entirely different project out of it while riding on the very small amount of success NCR has had


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:25:32
content:
  If you’d like. I don’t have money in NCR. I don’t care if Neos succeeds or fails because my home is in Resonite and nothing that happens here can impact that. 

  I don’t get some kind of pleasure from seeing Neos fail, I’m over it and have been over it for a while. 

  Saying that though, I don’t see any path to success here. It’s just running on sunk costs until they can’t afford anything else


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:29:47
content:
  The Neos inventory isn’t stored on chain or anything. You just spend NCR off chain and they keep track of how much you should have for how long. Dealing directly with Neos regarding anything with NCR is off chain


type: message
date: 2024-02-02 22:36:09
content:
  Pretty big risk all things considered. I feel like they should have just cut all ties to Neos and start a new project without this baggage


type: message
date: 2024-02-03 07:28:29
content:
  This whole neos story is so sad - whole original and unique product is gone. Now you developing some classic crypto copypasta but even here you cant even launch it properly. Anyway if you do someday, it will be only another poor project with no unique utilities. There is no point why anyone would invest in this “new metavers. Former ceo want to suceed so hard he making unrational moves living in his bubble. Alone without former team full of good devs. He failed completely in that space as ceo, dont understand what hes doing now.


type: message
date: 2024-02-03 07:33:26
content:
  When literally everyone leave the company and only ceo stays its obvious where is the problem. 

  So if you hope in this new project you basically betting on his management skills again, but this time even without proper team


type: message
date: 2024-02-05 00:23:18
content:
  Hello, you can send us email to hello@neos.com, but keep in mind that we receive a high volume of partnership proposals every week. So, if you don't hear back, it might mean your proposal is not the right fit for us at the moment. Many thanks.


type: message
date: 2024-02-05 00:26:56
content:
  i wont lie, that sounds like its a lie.  partnerships proposals to that degree would mean theres actually stuff being done but i dont see it advertising like SANDBOX did for their partnerships.


type: message
date: 2024-02-05 00:43:29
content:
  Yeah where is all the advertising for Neos? Where do you try to build a stable community? Clearly a telegram chat won't cut it.
  Looking right now on Twitter, there's not much engagement towards Neos.


type: message
date: 2024-02-05 15:18:50
content:
  Hi there,

  I'll skip the first line personalized by some AI and advertising a random marketing opportunity and get straight to the point.

  I would love to have a conversation with your Head of BD or Growth Lead. We are a highly skilled and well-connected European company that has been working in the Crypto space for several years. We would like to discuss possible synergies and upcoming opportunities for both parties.

  Who can I send a direct message to?


type: message
date: 2024-02-06 09:24:17
content:
  Hey! I remember around this time last year that there was a competition held in Neos. I think I remember it being called MMC? Does anyone know if that's happening again in Neos this year?


type: message
date: 2024-02-06 12:36:36
content:
  MMC was/is a community run event and the organizer (medra) moved to another platform to host MMC there instead


type: message
date: 2024-02-06 12:38:21
content:
  That mmc? The one with prize money funded by sponsors a.k.a the playerbase? I’m sure that will be starting in neos soon

  On the positive note whatever is made is guaranteed to win 🥇


type: message
date: 2024-02-06 14:38:15
edit_date: 2024-02-06 14:58:49
content:
  Yes, it is hosted by Medra. The MMC is a legally recognized nonprofit iirc and they have no plans to offer any event on Neos. It has moved to Resonite and has already been kicked off


type: message
date: 2024-02-07 23:09:55
content:
  I would consider it if we cut ties with the UAE. Not going to take my stuff down or anything, I believe in the creative commons, but further direct participation in such a way that the UAE benefits from my work is absolutely a bridge too far for me.


type: message
date: 2024-02-12 20:16:01
content:
  It did make me laugh that the MMC says it's been going for several years but because the team don't like the association, mentioning Neos is avoided, so you have this weird issue of something claiming to have been running for years on a platform that claims it's only several months old. Gave me a chuckle.


type: message
date: 2024-02-12 20:31:22
content:
  The competition itself has been going on for years despite a change in venue they don’t explicitly mention. Unless the verbiage is different from what you said, I don’t see a problem here. Just not mentioning said change of venue


type: message
date: 2024-02-12 20:32:45
content:
  My head cannon is they're lovers separated by distance and for some reason neos is the only way to see each other.


type: message
date: 2024-02-13 00:33:38
content:
  Translation: "If we are quiet, we're just trying to come up with excuses for stuff that we should have done years ago"


type: message
date: 2024-02-13 02:19:00
content:
  @malooniac What the heck does the incompetent COO do at NEOS, she can't even do marketing and she gets paid to just telegram admin?


type: message
date: 2024-02-13 06:20:42
edit_date: 2024-02-13 06:28:59
content:
  One is the "BasedXR Headless" hosting Earth by BasedXR
  And the other is an afk japanese player hosting their own world


type: message
date: 2024-02-14 00:12:53
edit_date: 2024-02-14 00:31:26
content:
  OK,I'm fine with the delays. But at least be honest and passionate about the project and communicate like the founders of TOPIA(ex NFT world). Karel , why don't you be honest about the drama with the CTO and tell us how you're going to move on? Are you hiding or playing with With investors' money?


type: message
date: 2024-02-14 00:21:52
edit_date: 2024-02-14 00:22:22
content:
  I once believed and invested in you, please respond. If you don't answer, I will sell up and leave, no longer attached to the value of NCR or the development of NEOS.


type: message
date: 2024-02-15 12:57:28
content:
  Karel You'd be a McDonald's part-timer if it weren't for Mark Zuckerberg. @malooniac, so are you. Can't you guys make a really simple game with UE in time?


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 17:26:05
edit_date: 2024-02-18 17:37:28
content:
  Guys, where is currently old Neos team ? Fruxious and others. 
  I found that discord is gone…  trying to find new channels with Neos team.

  upd: oke, found it.


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 17:38:55
edit_date: 2024-02-18 17:39:19
content:
  The old team went to make Resonite

  Here all we have is a ghost team seemingly doing nothing for a project that we’ll never see


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 17:39:27
content:
  All the people responsible for making Neos the software have now left and no longer associate with Neos. They work on Resonite now


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 19:28:28
content:
  Yeah. Anyone who is interested in the technology that Neos displays should go to Resonite. That technology is dead in the water here. They can’t improve it at all as they don’t have the source. That’s why they have to make an UE client and why it’s so different from the original. 

  If you’re here for the crypto grift, firstly, why, but secondly, you’re in the right place.


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 19:31:46
content:
  Hold up they released that coopers planet world. I've personally not tried it but it's not dead dead. It's just on life support 😅


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 19:34:09
content:
  This is the most negative telegram chanell in the whole crypto market. I am honoured to be a part of it.


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 19:36:17
content:
  Yeaaa I'm not really trying to defend them, I was just looking for a hook to make my obligatory use NCR for storage joke. Didn't find one 😔 clearly I'm too stoned 😞.


type: message
date: 2024-02-18 19:48:28
content:
  I’d be more positive if they actually did anything else than empty promises
  I invested money in this, for now, it’s a scam


type: message
date: 2024-02-19 17:11:59
content:
  The graphs for NCR certainly don't look good. Went up at the announcement of cooper's planet and the near release of staking... With it delayed we're back to 7.14c USD per coin from a 90 day peak of approximately 11.7c


type: message
date: 2024-02-19 17:27:14
content:
  My main was the first one banned for FUD since Karel took control of this channel. I was what caused them to go “fuck the Neos guidelines, we ban for FUD”. What I said back then was infinitely more tame than this


type: message
date: 2024-02-19 17:28:30
content:
  If you’re curious as to what got me banned, it was me saying that a stable coin is what’s needed for a marketplace, as people wouldn’t want to deal in a currency whose value can fluctuate. Trying to cram a speculative asset into a marketplace won’t work. You can have a stable token and a speculative asset at the same time. One of those will fail


type: message
date: 2024-02-19 17:29:29
content:
  I suggested that USDC could be used instead, as it is widely accepted by nearly every exchange and is way easier than NCR to deal with. Then again, if they used USDC, they couldn’t be shady with their money and business practices.  (I didn’t say that last part)


