# messages

type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:06:04
content:
  NCR is not a governance token. Whether you own 0 NCR or all 50m, you have no more a say in how Karel operates than anyone else


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:06:17
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:07:40
content:
  Neos Credits are still planned to be the main currency of Neos Metaverse. There will be a licensing system and Neos Store. I hope this is all just a temporary bump in the road and will do what I can to make these things happen. 😊


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:09:53
content:
  The key rift in the "anticrypto" community is that there's a group of people who care about Neos as a platform to build and socialize on and a group of people who only care about the money they could make with NCR


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:11:38
content:
  It's not one or the other. If Neos does well so does Neos Credits and the other way around. People making money in Neos is good for Neos. It's pretty simple.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:14:36
content:
  Yeah Mirko Grisendi also known as Hurca! Amazing lineart, so glad to be working with him.
  https://www.behance.net/hurca


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:15:26
content:
  That's the plan. Alongside with creators who will have a lot of rich customers and Community Awards.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:16:11
content:
  Idk really. The goal is for Neos to succeed. Anyone can make a token like NCR. Neos itself is special, though. Once NCR is inside neos, there is no functional difference between it and, say, USDC, If Neos used USDC it would be much easier, there would be no swap fees which lower the barrier to entry/exit, and the value is held stable which instills faith in the economy


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:16:48
content:
  The only issue here is that using USDC with neos can only start generating profit when a marketplace exists so that transactions can be taxed


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:18:33
content:
  There is also the need for community mods to spread the knowledge of cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrency still needs to be spread in an organized way like Catholicism


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:18:44
content:
  Yeah kinda was. It adds a layer of gas and swap fees, if implemented in a marketplace would instill worry that the price could change drastically, and also be another confusing step to have to learn to deal with if you want to buy or sell


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:21:31
content:
  Do you want a currency used inside of neos to be a currency for speculation or for utility? Trying to have one that does both will do both poorly as we've seen


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:22:11
content:
  If you want a token with low volatility, USDC. Then, neos profits on a % of transaction from inside neos. I struggle to see the issue there


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:23:52
content:
  The supply of ncr is too small to be suitable as a universal currency. We have studied that the universal currency needs such a supply of shib


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:24:31
content:
  I've heard this argument before. Nothing that holds worth is 100% stable. What we aim for is relatively how stable something is. And it turns out fiat like the usd or euro are infinitely more stable than any kind of non fiat backed cryptocurrency


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:24:54
content:
  Theres 50M with 14 decimal places that is a lot of divisibility and we can add more. The Whitepaper has subunit names as well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:25:21
content:
  What's the point of a limited supply if the goal is to have a utility token? What utility does limiting the supply provide?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:25:59
content:
  Limiting the supply is something you'd do if you have speculation in mind. As you said karel, the neos market would benefit more from a utility token. Gotta pick one


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:27:40
content:
  a speculative currency doesn't just rise in value over time. If NCR isn't backed by anything than it can go all over the place, which we are seeing now


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:28:56
content:
  Not sure I like the word speculative, that could be said of almost any monetary instrument. Neos Credits is backed by Neos Metaverse utility.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:29:01
content:
  the point of a token for neos isn't to increase in value just like the point of a usd isnt to increase in value. Its a certain unit of value you can trade for other things. That's what the marketplace needs. If you want your money to increase in value, put it in a savings account


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:29:43
content:
  the worth of trust in NCR's connection to Neos isn't worth anything, Back it with something stable like established fiat


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:29:58
edit_date: 2022-03-05 20:30:09
content:
  The point of USDC is to be a stablecoin that decreases in value together with USD. Ethereum is a better example of an token that both has an utility and rises in value over time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:30:32
content:
  A wallet full of USDC is an eWallet full of USD. If I have a bucket of cash on my desk it doesn't magically go up in value


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:30:56
content:
  The goal of currency isnt to automatically go up in value on its own, thats what investments are for


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:33:19
content:
  its the neos store, not the neos investment bank. it needs a currency that is stable just like popular fiat which is why i keep saying USDC. the point of the store is to trade something worth something for a product or service. That's it


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:34:19
edit_date: 2022-03-05 20:34:32
content:
  I agree, when we released NCR the info I got from dev is that LIC and Neos Store are just around the corner. I'm a patient person, but it's been a long time and we really need to see NCR have more utility then it has at this time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:36:40
edit_date: 2022-03-05 20:37:15
content:
  NCR was a patreon reward and froox said neos would be dead 2 years ago if not for NCR's funding, lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:39:08
content:
  This is not true, I see him only spreading negative sentiment against NCR. We can have a discussion but civil.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:39:11
content:
  ok ok masks off stop pretending all you lil creeps arent over in discord just using this place to get drama from


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:43:36
content:
  A safe environment for the people that want to be constructive and positive about Neos Metaverse and Neos Credits.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:44:41
content:
  You are violating every guidelines set in place for an inclusive environment for discussion for *ALL* people, set by the Neos team


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:47:42
content:
  whats constructive because do you think I can ever convince you crypto is good and open and better for the metaverse? I didnt think so


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:49:24
edit_date: 2022-03-05 20:49:36
content:
  Feedback has to be primarily constructive. If you see something that doesn't work feel free to come up with a solution to improve it. That would actually help. 😊


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:49:27
content:
  so could you EVER be swayed to think ncr is a good thing? or that karel should be allowed to conduct himself in his company without a coucil of 12 needing to sign off on everything he does?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:55:38
edit_date: 2022-03-05 20:55:53
content:
  We have a new website coming next week, staking, possibly new videos and hires. The future of Neos is good.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:57:32
content:
  i know a red turtle vore fetishist who can code 3 times faster than froox. He will be the new neos lead dev going forward


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:58:37
content:
  That's all good - but control, or at least usage, of the code and in-game development is paramount above everything else. If Froox can just lock you out of Neos and treat you like a third party with no input into platform itself, then all else is for naught


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 20:59:47
content:
  This doesn't have to do much with me personally. This is the relationship of Frooxius vs Solirax Ltd.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:00:14
content:
  Actually I’m very optimistic. It’s better earlier than latter we go part ways with those toxic f*y community


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:02:42
content:
  I like furries as much as any other internet subculture and theyre not all nasty assholes like over on discord


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:02:46
content:
  Solirax is just a legal entity - who is acting on its behalf at the moment if not you? How does the third minority shareholder play into all of this? Is Rothenberg even an active fund at this point? Have they been involved in communications recently; are they even aware of the current dispute?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:03:05
content:
  That's why I said primarily. A little negative feedback is ok. Most people in the group fudding is not.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:08:14
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:08:30
content:
  People want a space to discuss the future of NCR given recent events, without rehashing all of the same arguments about how crypto is bad/NCR should be out of Neos, etc. Doesn't necessarily mean it is an echo chamber. This isn't hard to understand.... there is a time for debate, and a time for more coordinated discussion.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:08:40
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:08:57
content:
  Yeah when it was created we really needed the money not to go bankrupt and the plan was for devs to shortly bring utility to it by launching the Neos Store.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:10:06
content:
  ncr needs to work on getting support from the ethereum community, the cryptocurrency community, I have some old engineers around me who have $300 million in btc, just because they are afraid of the web2 team and don't come to support ncr


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:13:02
content:
  I would like to clarify something, because in the original PDF with tomas' signature, the metadata shows me it was created on the 3rd of march, and his announcement came out yesterday, the 4th, which lines up with this


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:17:49
content:
  I do want to clarify that digital signatures are a real thing. I sign all my work related documents with a certificate and an image of my signature (the certificate proves it is me)


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:19:08
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:19:22
content:
  DocuSign has some kind of a process for signing and generates a certificate. The Whitepaper was just someone typing in Tomases name by mistake. That is very different. :D


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:22:19
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:23:15
content:
  Yes Frooxius did a hateful public statement - not the first one - tanking NCR  instead of asking me in private to remove the signature like a sane person.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:25:14
content:
  How can be that winston can insult people and still be in here while others are kicked and banned when they just joined?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:27:28
content:
  Um.... I see people I know getting nuked and assholes being allowed to stay. This is less an NCR chat and more a Praise Karel and don't be against him. So any debating thoughts tend to get kicked


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:28:14
content:
  Frooxius is a very smart person and is manipulating public sentiment. Not giving me any feedback on anything and then criticizing things publicly is one of the favorite tools.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:30:38
content:
  Personally, (hindsight 20/20, yes yes, but just for future reference) I would have personally liked if, for example the office hour thing, you would have said in the announcement channel "After reconsideration, I will not be hosting an office hour, sorry for the inconvenience"


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:32:05
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:32:19
content:
  The Discord vote was the moment for me where you began to look wierd and untrustfull. Sadly your actions keept looking it more and more wrong and worrying instead of explaing stuff.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:32:50
content:
  It's true, I'm not ragging on you for it, I'm just laying out what we as a community like when announcements go out from any party


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:33:00
content:
  So what are you waiting for? Be tough, give him some blow, the CTO and the team deserve to be punished


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:33:02
content:
  haha NCR channel was not public? It is something that regards NCR. The people that are interested in NCR are there.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:34:56
content:
  NCR Channel =/= Announcement channel.
  For Big actions like you did the vote, that should have been used. (But I think thats been said already several times)


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:35:45
content:
  I am curious, you said that it wouldn't be used to make a decision, and then immediately made a decision based off it back when it happened. why bother saying it was just to see opinions and not to make a decision if that was not the plan?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:36:14
content:
  I did not act on the polls. I acted as I though is right. Do you think cutting the ICO short and moving funds to staking is not a good idea?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:38:18
content:
  Yeah because it's a good and logical thing to do. If you made a poll whether you should open an umbrella when it rains people would probably agree as well.😄


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:39:23
content:
  Negotiations have clearly reached a dead end at this point. Unfortunately it seems this will all need to be resolved in court.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:39:44
content:
  The Memorandum has that aspect. It is somewhat disadvantageous to me as Froox will just encourage other devs to fud, but it would be still better than this I think.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:40:51
content:
  Both sides have stated completely opposite positions with regards to ownership of code for example. Ambiguity on this isn't something that can continue.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:42:01
content:
  Winston crossed the line, I would support kicking him. Also a huge distraction to actual discussion at this point


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:42:37
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:42:49
content:
  We still don't have staking or even a date when it will start. That will be an announcement. The Whitepaper 1.05 announced allocation of funds.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:46:28
content:
  Karel this is reflecting very poorly on you... be a CEO and take decisive action on what should be clear right thing to do


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:47:22
edit_date: 2022-03-05 21:48:39
content:
  I actually agree that in some countries he would be in danger. He lost a lot of people a lot of money.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:47:30
content:
  If you want people to take you seriously Karel you need to take other people seriously. It does not look good to just ignore that someone is threatening to kill your "opponent"


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:51:49
content:
  I agree, karel causing everyone who put money into ncr to lose all their savings is much worse.

  However it is their fault for trusting ncr to gain a ton of value, I have been saying forever that things that go up quickly go down quickly


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:52:37
content:
  If he is a NCR holder I get his anger, frankly I'm angry as well my company is the biggest NCR holder of them all.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:54:25
content:
  Yes, by mishandling ncr quite a lot during November/December/January

  Believe it or not I do like ncr. And I do want neos to succeed with an in game economy


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 21:55:31
content:
  And what do we deserve exactly? Harassment? That's ok because you have a grudge against a section of the community?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:01:29
edit_date: 2022-03-05 22:05:37
content:
  Yes people will be pissed if you dump the token they hold a lot of. Very natural. Some animosity is expected and it is to extend very understandable. If there is a threat in this group (not DM) me and other mods will delete it and ban the user.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:02:41
content:
  And you don't think there's anything wrong with someone putting so much of their money on the line that they would put themself at that risk? Risky actions can have bad consequences.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:06:17
content:
  Discord, tg unofficial group. You name it, we were be kicking out of there. And now we just wish to have a place to cheer up a little bit.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:06:27
content:
  Now that the gloves are completely off, could you Karel just tell us what exactly happened that led to froox being so pissed at you?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:08:08
content:
  That is a question for Froox but I think it is not being 100 percent in control. He seems not to be able of a compromise or anyone else having a different opinion. That's just my two cents, would hope it's the wrong assesment.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:09:03
content:
  Really shows a lot of people's true colors. A lot of caring only about money and crypto, none about community,and when the profit they feel they were entitled to isn't realized they lash out and say horrible things to anyone criticizing the crypto (or even any aspect of the project they like)


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:09:08
content:
  Karel- someone I know has been following ncr on discord and would like to be added here but they did not have telegram so their account will be new


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:11:03
content:
  He was not forced to do anything, could have left any time. He was working with me because it was very comfortable advantageos for him.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:11:44
content:
  I dont understand. Why not give NCR a chance. Make it part of ingame enviroment and give people a chance to make a living doing what they love. Everyone will thrive.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:13:05
content:
  Oh yeah all his friends are telling him he's right all the time. That has an effect on a person over time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:13:38
content:
  What was the main reason he left living with you? Was it a disagreement with development or something personal that happened between you two?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:14:51
content:
  We've argued about Nexulan for years he always had his way, but the things I have seen Nex do were just too much.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:17:10
content:
  It must be like a cult for those group of ppl. Pissed at firing a man and then he put the anger on the whole NCR community


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:18:56
content:
  Nex was very rude towards me, treated me as an illegitimate CEO, sabotaged the trailer so his video remains the first one on Steam, he was also rude at Froox and Chroma didn't enjoy working with him at all.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:20:04
content:
  He was blackmailing me hard at around the time Neos launched on Steam and we had almost zero money for a pay.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:22:33
content:
  Sure there are many people who put a lot of work into making me look bad with the hope it will demotivate me and I will let Frooxius zuckerberg me.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:22:47
edit_date: 2022-03-05 22:24:04
content:
  Although at the time people were not being specific about who was doing it, I heard "staff" where not making sure the room was cleared of minors and continued. Again, that's is assuming they were talking about the same incidents. Take this point with a grain of salt.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:22:59
content:
  Karel calling someone a freak because they engage in sexual activity in private and want a raise because they feel the work they do is important to the platform does not make them a freak...


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:24:36
content:
  Depends on the AD servers. They are unofficial communities, and it's not on the neos team to moderate their members. I avoid interacting with AD communities on any platform because their moderation is near always very bad. It's not fair to criticize nex for the group's failure to moderate itself.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:26:07
content:
  Blackmail as far as I am aware usually means they are saying "Do this specific thing or I will purposefully harm the project". Are you using the right word for what he was doing?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:27:38
content:
  Touching without permission was a behavior by those f**y in neos and when I mentioned it up they told me vrchat has similar issue.  See their whataboutism


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:27:57
content:
  Yeah the threat was that he will sway the public opinion of Neos. Make it look bad. Same tools that are being used now to make me look bad.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:30:27
content:
  Damn, that is important context to some discussions being thrown around. Thank you very much for being willing to answer questions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:35:01
content:
  You need to go read law on blackmail. It’s not blackmail the way Karel  just laid it out. So to say it is without it really being is then liable and Karel should be careful.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:35:10
edit_date: 2022-03-05 22:36:52
content:
  There is a criminal definition or blackmail and colloquial usage. Latter can still be a valid fireable offense in employment context, especially against a CEO


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:38:32
content:
  I’ve read this whole thread and you just seem super angry and salty to the point of just wanting to b righty and not have a real discussion?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:38:37
content:
  I don’t know. Ppl just like to cherry pick karel’s words and make it a great deal from it. Maybe someone has ptsd


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:41:18
edit_date: 2022-03-05 22:41:42
content:
  I’m not a lawyer and neither Are you or Karel so why are you allowed to say he is being blackmailed and I’m not allowed to state the opposite?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:46:50
content:
  In a closely held Corp there typically isn't another boss to answer to because executives are also the shareholders


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:46:53
content:
  I only bring up my qualification so you can see why I’m asking about corporate and company  structure


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:47:56
content:
  So noes is a product of a privately held company that 15% of is owned by a VC?  Who is the other ownership?


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:51:04
content:
  Ownership of product and entitlement to profits is different from copyright of the code which is what matters here


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:52:15
content:
  Usually code ownership is taken care of in employment contracts. So we can’t really know much until we can see the contracts that we’re out in place.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:54:28
edit_date: 2022-03-05 22:54:52
content:
  I love the platform and I’m a crypto guy. I’d love to see both survive this. But the platform is the product not NCR. NCR derives it’s value from the platform, it’s growth, and it’s Utility in the platform. I hope they can figure out how to make both go.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:54:53
content:
  But Rothenberg got in legal trouble years ago... not clear whether it is still existing entity or what happened to those shares


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:56:32
content:
  Yea, the only viable future of NCR it seems is if Karel has some legal rights to Neos platform itself. Which he claims to have under Solirax. We shall see.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 22:57:29
content:
  In meantime, I am out and not reinvesting anytime soon. Kinda just sticking around for the drama and to see how this story ends.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:01:14
content:
  To build a platform like neos takes time. So I don’t worry about other platform catching up very quickly


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:01:59
edit_date: 2022-03-05 23:06:55
content:
  Man I wish I could help mediate this. They had such a head start on the market in my mind. I’m 50, an experienced tech CEO and turn around guy that plays NEOS with my son AND have been around the crypto space since 2010 lol. I can see how it can all work together to do what all parties want!


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:03:39
content:
  Well I’m old enough to never believe it’s all one persons fault. I’m sure both sides have issues and I’m also sure that a middle ground can be found.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:04:37
content:
  I’d go there and sit down with them in a room, listen to both sides, come back to them with solutions that meet their issues.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:04:58
content:
  tbh, after seeing what f**y did, I don’t think it’s easier to get a middle ground with them. I’m not saying karel is 100% perfect.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:06:22
edit_date: 2022-03-05 23:06:35
content:
  The fact is that they both have things they would like solved. So Simone need to help them get to a mutually agreed on solution. They don’t even need to like each other once it’s done.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:06:54
content:
  Time for mediation long past imo. The way I see it, the team never really respected Karel and only begrudgingly tolerated him and NCR over the years to handle all the administrative and financing issues that Froox and them didn't want to deal with. But with recent surge in value of NCR, no longer possible to ignore, leading to this issue. Which really is about the heart and soul of the platform. Hard to see a middle ground being reached on that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:09:29
content:
  I’ve learned it’s never to late to get two people to the table. Things can often be solved by having a cool collected mind in the middle. If they do Des cider I go legal route that will take time and would most likely disrupt the platform and NCR even more.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:10:43
content:
  Let me be frank. Froox and dev are happy to be funded and it’s their niche f**y world now so better other ppl get out. That’s the only ground they wished to get to.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:13:32
content:
  Mediation/negotiation can still happen in the future, but not at this time imo. Both sides believe they hold all the cards and are therefore uncompromising. Both need to get beat up a little bit by lawyers to bring them back to negotiating table.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:13:39
content:
  If you have seen what the dev team has do to cryptobros in discord since froox’s first announcement. You’ll have the whole pic. So as Prozac mentioned, mediation window has closed now I think.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:14:47
content:
  I’m on the discord and have been following the NCR channel and I’ve see bad behaviour equally from both sides.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:15:57
content:
  The challenge with NCR being on its own is that it now has to stand on its own as a currency it doesn’t have the platform and the marketplace in the platform to drive its value. Not to say it couldn’t happen as its own stand currency in other places as well just makes it very hard for it to build in such a competitive environment whereas being part of neos it had an advantage of being the only currency built into the game which would give it the value it needs to grow on the marketplace to then be useful other places. Sorry for the long text using voice to text while driving


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:16:42
content:
  It’s kind of the latter half. Right after the announcement was out, the mods in discord literally kicked all cryptobros out. And that’s when the fire lit and continues. Jack has proved that


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:16:49
content:
  The primary value to NCR is that it would be the default in-game currency of choice with advantages for native token over other alternatives like USDC or Paypal. Without the first party support, NCR just becomes like any other cryptocurrency, of which there are thousands... It's basically a soft way of saying fuck off to NCR and doesn't fool anyone for a second, hence why everyone has dumped their coins in the last day


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:16:55
content:
  Yeah I hear you it’s just challenging in this situation watching it kind of gets beat up as a platform for all the people who have invested their time in playing the game which is what gives it its value. That means it’s going to go through a value drop while they sort their stuff out and they’re probably lose users etc. etc. just a shame for something that’s really so cool and ahead of its time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:17:30
content:
  The biggest thing I hate is the split in the community tho.
  People were angry at Karel, but projected that towards the cryptobros. And that was honestly pretty disgusting to watch.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:19:10
content:
  But then the crypto Bros did the same thing in being upset with froox and Their supporters and spewed lots of hatred towards them as well. That’s what I mean it was on both sides


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:21:01
edit_date: 2022-03-05 23:23:14
content:
  I’m not defending cyptobros. But the fire was lit by one party first. And it seems even as today it’s still on. That’s the reason why karel create this new tg group


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:21:32
content:
  Who knows where to land it’s all in the hands of people and organizations that we have no understanding of because we can’t see all the legal documents. So we basically have to sit and wait no matter what anyone says none of it is provable at this point for us


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:22:19
content:
  I don’t know who started it I don’t think that’s obvious in the threads I think it was just building overtime. And I think both sides are going a little crazy. The truth lies in the middle and reason will get to the truth it’ll just take some time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:22:42
content:
  Yeah it is true however not just going to take Froox comments for what they are, clearly they’re being malicious towards each other and may be saying things out of spite and not what they can actually legally do


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:23:41
content:
  If I’ve learned anything over the years as people fight they get more entrenched because they believe what they’re saying to be true even though sometimes it’s not always true it’s hard as humans to be honest with ourselves but once we are we can get to the bottom of things fairly quickly because we’re very logical species.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:23:48
content:
  Karel owns a large part of the supply through buybacks and we are effectively a tiny micro cap taken now at just over 10M MC


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:25:09
content:
  I have the same wishful thinking but after 2weeks of this shit, I think f**y has very firmly showed what their ground is. We shall respect that


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:26:17
content:
  I’m sure internally this has been going on for longer than two weeks! I’ve also learned through all kinds of negotiations that even a hard line in the sand is just a tactic. If they truly both care about the future of the platform they will be brought together by reason if they can sit down with someone reasonable.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:27:20
content:
  If I’ve learned anything after almost a decade In crypto these early things are always up-and-down like this. It takes years for something to smooth out and a lot of things have to go right


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:27:37
content:
  For 2 weeks I meant the days f**y shows their ground. At the beginning of the drama, people just don’t understand them


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:27:38
content:
  Overall even if this is now considered shitcoin at 10m market cap there are still many positives lol even for a shitcoin


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:29:17
content:
  I hear you but I’ve never looked at my crypto portfolio as an actual investment portfolio in the long run this is the most risky part of my portfolio so this kind of stuff is normal just like investing in companies you can lose your whole amount very quickly and easily in risky companies all of crypto is just a risky asset class at this point anyway. So you kind of just have to buy and hold it hope something goes right.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:30:38
content:
  So just accept them, respect and don’t dream about persuading them any more. They just want a quiet place without cypto and that’s nothing wrong actually. Separation is what I’m looking forward to.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:31:26
content:
  I think separation would be 
  The worst for both the platform could use NCR and NCR needs the platform


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:31:52
content:
  I’m pretty sure if they would sit down with me I could help them get to a place it was mutually beneficial for everyone it’s kind of my specialty lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:33:18
content:
  I play the game with my son and I’m a crypto guy and the business guy so I love the whole project as a whole I think it’s a really cool thing. It’s way closer to a meta-verse than anything else of the market right now in all honesty.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:35:17
content:
  I agree the videos I saw got me into this project it looked like a clear winter miles ahead of the competition


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:36:13
content:
  I think the main company behind neos has already hired the law team to fix it. Mediation will be the first thing lawyers wanna do. But I expect that f**y will not compromise anything. So next step will be the lawsuit.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:38:27
content:
  Yeah they look like they’ve been out a bit of a stalemate for quite some time but let’s be honest and start ups this is normal when there’s multiple founders. Only time will tell if they can work it out. And it’s only going to get worked out if they both see it and love the value of the platform itself. If they both truly care about this whole platform and everything we will see a resolution quickly if even one of them doesn’t we will all loose.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:39:03
content:
  Mediation should always come before legal options. If mediation can work you save a lot of money a lot of heartache a lot of time and you maintain as much value as possible in the company.


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:41:12
edit_date: 2022-03-05 23:43:09
content:
  Andrea I think you guys should learn from froox and respond in articles, not sentences, which can be taken out of context or misunderstood. Like today many ppl were convinced that Karel condones life threats made against froox. This is time for crisis PR management .


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:50:44
content:
  If I am not mistaken, the LTD is a holding. Neos itself seems to be owned by Solirax as Karel claims, but others say that Neos is owned by Frooxius


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:56:31
content:
  “In June 2020, Mike Rothenberg was arrested and charged with 23 federal felony fraud charges, facing decades in prison if convicted”


type: message
date: 2022-03-05 23:59:08
content:
  So if the person here is right and the VC has 15% .. is it of Solirax? And if so who controls that vote right now?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 00:08:44
content:
  I was hoping I could give the VC firm a call and just ask them what was happening and offered to help. But I don’t know if they’re even involved in this problem right now given their own troubles.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 00:13:27
content:
  I hate that I have to keep track of 2 different telegram groups and like a dozen discord threads to keep up with this situation. Lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 00:19:11
content:
  Unfortunate I can really believe just hearsay at this point. We need real answers backed up by documents. And the VC could change their mind at anytime. I’ll see did I can find anything out on the VC


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 00:41:11
edit_date: 2022-03-06 00:46:18
content:
  for proving that Froox has conspired to out him with foul play, and also that theyve tried to fraud investors after collecting money since 2018


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 00:51:00
edit_date: 2022-03-06 00:51:40
content:
  Yep, Karel has defrauded investors, since the money raised for NeosVR funding went to currency buybacks


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 01:35:32
content:
  Karel Hi karel, could you give us a short brief about what could we expect next? Or if you need sometime to sort things out, then give us a date for everyone to come back to have an update later.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 01:37:04
content:
  currently, people are getting so emotional on both sides. All the talkings are going nowhere. This is very damaging for everyone.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 01:39:48
edit_date: 2022-03-06 01:56:07
content:
  you keep flooding every channel without any information new or helpful. Can you stop repeating yourself


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:07:31
content:
  so, new website is to be next week right??

  when new website comes out, there  will be response from Froox again saying
  "told you not to do anything CEO! Since you did something without my consent, no place for you in Neos hah"


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:25:12
edit_date: 2022-03-06 02:25:25
content:
  then Karel will say
  "sent you to riview it but never gives feedback what you dont agree with, driving me crazy. There's things to be done not like irresponsible position as you are not accepted in business bro"

  then no response from Froox until next whitepaper. 
  same pattern


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:28:10
content:
  Karel is forced to be a miscommunicating leader by his team/public which is kind of gaslight I see.

  Not a perfect person, but responsible for his job at least.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:30:49
content:
  what I see frooxius and his supporters doing is classic bully. Disagreement shouldn’t be done this way.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:36:36
content:
  Can we just have this chat be about what is happening and keep it professional. Not making off side comments about one group or they other please.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:38:13
content:
  What I find interesting is orc suddenly taking an interest in talking trash about me after I had said nothing for quite a long time


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:44:26
content:
  If you are freely bashing on people for no other particular reason than out of spite, it will be posted


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:45:50
edit_date: 2022-03-06 02:46:38
content:
  If NCR has no utility it is worthless. Right now NEOS is it’s only place for utility. We need NEOS and NCR for a win.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:47:03
content:
  they want to rugpull. we need to place our hopes in Karel because hes the only one giving a shit about is.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:52:45
content:
  trust those asshole furries for a moment and theyll be dancing crabs on your ass the first chance they get


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:53:53
content:
  Yeah non productive communication if all you are going to do is spread lies and hate, relax and drink some tea


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:58:49
content:
  It’s not about blaming anyone. the most important thing for everyone is to get things resolved. everybody could move on. Life is short man. Wasting time on endless fight is the biggest loss. If the team cannot form a constructive communication, you could ask for external help. Ask for someone you both have respect to get involved as moderator. Or you could trust some representatives from the community as we do put real money in.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 02:59:30
content:
  It's been rough for everyone man, but come on, stop insulting people and harassing people. You're literally just negative all the time


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:00:49
content:
  friend, ppl here including me got royally fucked and please atleast be honest and admit you are a bit glad about it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:02:46
content:
  exactly, I don't, how could I hate your guts? I don't, sure it sucks that you lost money but what do you want me to do about it? Cover your loss? Hell no


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:08:06
content:
  Didn’t you kinda start this drama with your posts? Just stop posting things that aren’t relevant to the discussion.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:15:12
content:
  I don’t really agree. NCR gets its value from Utility in NEOS. And NEOS can just change it’s payment methods to survive. So even if NCR goes away NEOS can live on.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:18:41
content:
  Karel spent millions of millions of dollars on buybacks. He won’t the third party token happen and owns 42.5% share


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:20:57
content:
  Yeah but where did he get the money to spend on that from the initial sale of all the NCR stuff to begin with so really that isn’t a good thing that Carl was able to do that he already had the money to do that from the ICO


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:23:50
content:
  We’ll see what’s going to happen. Team and Frooxius shouldn’t underestimate Karel’s determination of defending NCR


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 03:27:54
edit_date: 2022-03-06 03:34:54
content:
  No. karel wants the community to share the wealth. Right now it looks like the cost of education is a bit high. It makes sense that successful cryptocurrency projects would need the backing of the ethereum community. Historically innovation has been driven by the wealthy. karel could well seek the support of the wealthy in the ethereum community


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 04:21:02
content:
  So dev team do benefited from the fund raised? this is an important fact to be shown to the public. Based on this, Frooxius cannot simply discard ncr as if they never had a touch as what he stated in his announcement.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 04:25:14
content:
  Karel do you consider to seek for help from some publicity professionals? Words going around NCR on social media currently is disaster.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 04:25:58
content:
  Buy back is no use to hold the price when people are losing faith because of rumors and conflicting announcements


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 04:26:14
content:
  My understanding is at least some of the team had existing CFDT and NCR - so they at least indirectly benefited from the spike in price and ICO, assuming they sold at those higher prices. 

  The least charitable view of the situation (for which there isn't actual any evidence of yet) would be that those team members sold their holdings with fore-knowledge that Froox and team intended to remove Karel and NCR in advance of publicly disclosing this information.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 04:32:02
content:
  someone in the group assured me that Frooxius never had NCR nor sold it. the current small amount of ncr in his wallet are gifts from fans. If it is true, then it's a very weird situation. But if the funds from ICO goes to the company and the company use that fund to pay salaries to devs, then it's benefiting no-doubt.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:11:41
content:
  You should stop your abusive nature on here. You have been nasty all day. Smarten up and behave properly.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:37:17
edit_date: 2022-03-06 06:37:58
content:
  I really hope Karel doesnt give up! I know its hard to be pressured from all angles, but he will succeed and so will NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:40:38
content:
  Yes. We are all scum. We invest in innovative technology and be risk takers. thank you I will never invest in idealists again


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:44:27
content:
  I really wish karel would stop having any ideals. Learn from the conservatives. Get rich people to invest and make a cryptocurrency that is successful in a secular sense so the community can get rich. Just like we do at shib.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:49:43
edit_date: 2022-03-06 14:49:00
content:
  One person want both neos and ncr to thrive, the other person only wants neos and little circle of furrys to thrive. Easy pick


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:55:46
content:
  Don't worry about us. ncr will be fine even if it develops independently, the future is not just vr, and the vr cycle is too long, maybe it takes decades


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:57:15
content:
  If this is correct there is a possible midleground. They have been together for 8 years, Why stop it now, just when ncr price surged??


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 06:59:51
content:
  The best possible outcome for both furrys and cryptobros is letting them work this out like adults. Then implement ncr and let everyone thrive. How difficult can it be


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:00:36
content:
  Negotiations are done, Froox has given ultimatum which Karel can't agree to. This is heading to litigation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:01:55
content:
  I don't think they'll ever work this out.i was expecting neos to be the best in the crypto market...they just messed it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:02:12
content:
  This depends on whether contracts exist and what they say. But yes, default rule at least in USA is that code belongs to author.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:03:38
content:
  No matter where NCR goes the best part is that NEOS will continue to improve and grow and after all that's the reason we invested into it to make it improve not to make profit


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:04:07
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:04:20
content:
  They won't ever admit it but they just want to preserve their niche community. They don't want outsiders to define the direction of Neos, hence why they are kicking Karel and hate the influx of crypto bros.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:05:13
content:
  Froox is kinda forced to make a public statement when karel kept making his own statements conostantly that were untrue


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:06:03
content:
  Not to make profit😂 who invest in a business not to make profits? Warren Buffet?...is it  charity organisation?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:06:29
content:
  He is pressured from everywhere. people want him to communicate what is going on one side, and froox/furrys sabotaging on another side


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:06:48
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:01:46
content:
  most of us have been bearing this bullshit insults for months now trying to bridge the gap between crypto and furries but some of you guys are laughing in people's faces like some soulless c*nts. We will respond in the end if you keep poking


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:07:11
edit_date: 2022-03-06 14:53:31
content:
  Yes I invested into Neos without expecting any profit, its because i belive in the project and how beneficial it is to the VR and Metaverse space, since there is no comparable project that is fully dynamic as it is and does not gatekeep creation


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:09:04
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:09:37
content:
  Karel has been a terrible communicator and PR management, but at least he is communicating. Then his statements are picked apart and given the least charitable, most malicious interpretation possible by the community. Eg, him saying he fed Froox = abuse and indentured servitude. Yall act like a rabid mob and then insist the crypto community must act civil and respectful. Give me a break.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:10:47
content:
  Can I take the liberty of asking how much money you have invested? It's cryptocurrency, and the investor you ousted like leifeng, he had $300 million.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:10:51
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:11:33
content:
  Personally i dont mind if "cryptobros" are in neos or not, if we are all civil with eachother we can coexist with no issues and build amazing content within neos together


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:10:52
content:
  Youre rich person I guess. So people that invested in Facebook at the earliest time were not expecting profit? Yes very good project, the best metaverse I've seen so far. The fundamental is to believe in a project b4 investing.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:11:30
content:
  like yeah I respect this but the vast majority dont think like you and would prefer we never stepped foot in the Neos community


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:12:47
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:13:58
content:
  I didn't like Karlels public statements or him releasing the new whitepaper. But the discord fucking crucifies him for every little thing. No respect or even attempt at understanding given. Don't expect much in return. Let us have this chat and leave us in peace.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:14:12
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:14:47
content:
  I'm not saying theres anything wrong with you just being in it for profit, nor being in it for both profit and the pplatform. It's just that the main focus for me at least iis that Neos development continues because this project ending would be a massive shame. My main goal is for neos to succeed, it's why i teach people to use the platform and create content for it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:16:07
content:
  Also this two sides thing is a very human reaction, its in our nature to other people especially when we feel that the other is somehow endangering us or infringing on us. It's important to remain calm and civil on both sides because spite, hatred and insults will get us nowhere positive


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:16:38
content:
  I'm was not in it just for the profit. I massively believe in the project and want it to succeed but it looks like they turned back just before they reach the end of the tunnel.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:18:01
content:
  The problem is that the cto did not choose to communicate privately. He also didn't have someone dedicated to public relations


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:18:03
content:
  Which is due to internal issues with how Karel is handling things, which was attempted to be internally resolved but as we have all seen failed. I'm somewhat relived it came to this at this stage rather than further down the line


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:19:24
content:
  He did initially, it was after constant public statements by the CEO that he broke the private handling finally since incorrect things were being stated and he did not want himself or his team to be thought of supporting such


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:20:21
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:22:12
content:
  Please, there was no good faith attempt at resolution or coming to a compromise both sides could live with. Frooxs latest announcement made ie pretty clear they've wanted Karel and NCR gone the entire time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:20:25
content:
  It's not that its not understandable, we all have times when we are agry osr mad, and rightfully so, but we have to direct this anger in a productive way not destructive


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:21:57
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:22:54
content:
  Karel and NCR have been around for years. They suddenly have objections now that NCR finds some success and Karel now has some leverage to make demands on development and roadmap? Anyone with eyes can see what happened here.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:23:17
content:
  The team has made its position clear. You know a lot of people are value investors before they invest in ncr. They will be laughed at by their cryptocurrency friends, believing in something neos, dreams


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:23:24
content:
  Well Karel trying to meddle in development direction is an overreach in position so understandable why this would not be take kindly.
  It's also a bad management pracitice


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:24:10
content:
  Overreach like... wanting a marketplace and LIC transactions that have been promised for years and discussed in advance? Lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:24:35
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:26:01
content:
  Again, it's Frooxs way or the highway. No compromise. Which is how these negotiations and work strike have gone


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:26:34
content:
  Yeah that amount seems about right, there just gotta be a bunch of things in plpace first like conent ID and proper permission systems, more robust protections, neos isnt ready for a market currently in my opinion at least


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:28:12
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:30:00
content:
  Lack of excuses is not the problem for sure, UX has been on the table for years as well. Me wanting to hire a UX proffesional was fought so hard.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:30:55
content:
  Also about this being a sudden shift in the discord, not really, a lot of the community was disconntent with crypto for a long while it's just been more vocal in recent times because the Crypto was more present than ever, when we were at 0.08 cents and below it was easy for some to just ignore the "funny money" but as it was pumped and more crypto space originating people joined it became impossible for people to avoid, thats why it seems to spike


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:31:21
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:31:42
content:
  Because they want 100 percent control. As of why - my guess is they want to keep Neos a niche furry community.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:32:27
content:
  This is exactly what happened with the team. While NCR was small and cheap, they could ignore it and Karel. Now they can ignore no longer....so they are trying to remove both.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:33:03
content:
  I doubt it's about staying a niche furry community, and moore about retaining creative control, which as a creator i can respect. We have plenty of non furry community members, but yes besides the JP and furry community, the other western communities are definitely smaller


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:33:37
content:
  Oh god no we definitely want change, if we stagnate with the current product that would be a horrible outcome


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:36:29
content:
  I'm not worried about neos growing, however growing too fast may be an issue if moderation does not scale accordingly, witht he current lack of permisison systems to secure yourself against malicious actors it could very easily become a toxic landmine field really fast. As someone who originally did Avatar and world work in VRC and knows how toxic some communities there are, Moderation not being able to keep up is a heavy conocern should it have a sudden unexpected boom. But i do have confidence in the moderation team


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:36:40
content:
  For 8 years, no problem. Suddenly froox et al. starts sabotaging, while Karel is being pressured from all angels. Hitting him from all angles. Don’t give up Karel.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:36:58
content:
  Feels very much like it. However companies need to grow in order to survive and we always discussed big visions for Neos, that we will try to make it into a major metaverse a lot of people will use. Very dishartening to see ncr that has saved the company and can provide huge amounts of funding for development attacked.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:37:29
content:
  Ive never heard anyone say such and persoonally im all for anyone, We got plenty of "mainstream" people we hang out with every day. it could actually be very positive also for perception of our community


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:38:11
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:38:37
content:
  I don’t think that you should be spouting off about there being a furry community or not. It’s irrelevant. Do your job as CEO and save the platform for all users.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:39:27
content:
  This thread is no healthier than any others. I came here hoping for a real chat about what’s happening and this just seems to be more one sided propaganda.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:41:21
content:
  I mean beyond those that are radically against "cryptobros" I've never seen anyone rallying against any of our other non furry community members, the JP community as an example is heavily liked by most of us and so are a lot of the "Anime Avatar" people, Im not sure what to umbrella term them under so that will have to do as an identifier.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:44:11
content:
  It's less about in-game and more about creative control and influence on trajectory of Neos. They can't seem to bear letting anyone else in. And the discord has been pretty toxic and anti-crypto - not sure how you could miss that if you've been paying attention.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:44:15
content:
  Well yeah there's more "Normal" communinties than just "Crypto" what im saying is that the discord isnt hostile to everyone "Mainstream" and its not even just the furry subcommunity in neos that has people that have an issue with crypto plenty of our "Normal" users have issues with it as well, things arent as simple as "Crypto Vs furry" Crypto is in our current times a very heated divided issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:47:53
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:48:51
content:
  The point is that it seems that the dev team is not too interested in making Neos less niche by hiring proffesionals that can help fix some of the issues blocking further growth. The amount of users we have is tiny for a metaverse. And that’s okfor a while, but things have to keep moving forward. One of the things we fought hard internally in the last three months was a clear development timeline.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:48:06
content:
  That's kinda a strange assumption, those who have an ssue with crypto would probably just go back to playing the game and not talking about crypto in neos channels, maybe rant on twitter about it, but i dout theyd perpetually witchhunt


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:48:19
content:
  Wake up, what era are you living in? The era when the Super Bowl is filled with cryptocurrency commercials? The era when North American 20-somethings have some fortune changing fortunes because of cryptocurrencies?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:49:38
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:50:09
content:
  That doesnt mean that crypto in the larger social space isn't still a very charged topic, anywhere you look at crypto you see both hordes of people praising it and hordes ralying against it for one reason or the other, some companies have adopted crypto some have publically stated their rejection


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:51:19
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:53:04
content:
  No thats been going on for years. However we having more funding made it worse because now when we can easily afford to hire those proffesionals the arguments got more heated. Back then I was at least happy to save money and thought we will just hire them later when we can afgord it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:51:21
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:51:37
content:
  Personally however Neos goes forwards be it NCR first, third or unlikely "no" party, my main goal is to see NEOS succeed grow and improve and i have faith in this


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:51:25
content:
  I give it one year. Crypto will be regulated everywhere, and countries will start to roll out cbdc. It will undeniably be a normal part of our everyday life, like it or not.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:51:38
content:
  You're not professional at all, can you get out of here and read some books? Do you need me to recommend a few good books to you?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:54:08
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:54:14
content:
  You are strangely hostile, I don't see exactly what about my observation that crypto is heavily debated about you disagree with but if you have any statistics that disagree with this im more than happy to look at them, im just going off of my own perception of public discourse in the wider world so if you have any statistics or such that would be useful


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:56:54
content:
  Yeah the main things ive heard against it are mainly Environment and then followed by people talking about rugs and such and inevitably NFTs are mentioned which then unpacks its own list of what people dont like + the already mentioned environmental impact


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:57:13
content:
  discord's main gripe: "you left a signature on the white paper!!"
  NCR holder's main grip:"Um you took our money and want to financially ruin us"


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:57:35
content:
  The weirdest take tho ive seen is an anti crypto person who is for the envronment but against nuclear, which is a wild stance


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:58:10
edit_date: 2022-03-06 07:59:21
content:
  I’d say it would be still worth it to have a UX professional on the team much sooner even if it would shorten our runway somewhat as that is an very important part of a metaverse. But I could see playing the long game saving money instead to improve odds of survival if my co-founder is against. Now we have the funding and should hire proffesionals. Not just friends.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 07:58:49
content:
  Yup, the servers i host are all run purely on CO2 neutral and nuclear power as well as provide some power to Folding@Home


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:00:51
content:
  If the environmental impact was the main issue, a compromise would be for ncr to migrate to an enviromentalfriendly blockchain.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:02:03
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:03:36
content:
  We have done a lot to make the way we use crypto more friendly. Internal ledger, no PoS NFTs, no mining, using a blockchain that is being transitioned to PoS. Don’t get why it’s getting all the hate. We have to get funded somehow. Nobody seems to understand that aspect.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:03:11
content:
  One thing that got a lot of positive reception at least was the NCR-OPTOUT feature to not mint from patreon for those that do not wish to receive it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:04:53
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:05:18
content:
  We were also not friendly to venture capitalists and their needs. Which I can see the upside of for founders to  remain in control. Even though it takes much longer to build something big without their help.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:06:30
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:07:31
content:
  But we can’t keep attacking every way of funding. Money is not something bad. A company needs funding to do well and be able to grow.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:07:05
content:
  I wouldnt trust eth transition to PoS happen anytime soon. Its been delayed for to long. Many ecr20 tokens migrating to better alternatives.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:07:38
content:
  But as well, it will remain the same an eventually die if neos doesn't get funded. Some else will produce same and better then neos die. The product will to improve before another thing comes up. Neos is currently the best I've seen


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:08:26
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:08:43
content:
  Yeah there is an upside to it if you can make it without major investments giving away too much equity.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:09:11
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:09:25
content:
  its emotional, Karel. Its not aboit the environment or this or that... its that thr furry community adopted marxist brainworms on twitter and they see crypto as capitalism


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:09:24
content:
  Also imma say my piece on Licensing because i think everyone has their own opinioons on "who should own neos"

  Personally Ownership of neos i think should initially be by Frooxious but then open sourced to allow anyone to contribute and fork a truly open metaverse capable of integrating whatever you wish

  I dont think the time for Open sourcing is now but it is something i look forwards to and I recognize that avoiding "Sharks" of the captial world has been beneficial to this


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:11:34
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:13:15
content:
  the Neos team let a toxic hateful childish community cultivate on discord and they are responsible for this strife.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:11:58
content:
  Oh right speaking of captial sharks, this is also something anti crypto users do not like and have basically equated a lot of "cryptobros" to essentially equal, feeling that people are in it just to make a quick buck not for the good of the platform.

  Not my thoughts but just adding to the prior things that have been heard against crypto, this one is more unique to this project


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:12:14
content:
  Karel if I can get froox to the table would you come and I can help mediate a quicker solution for you both than legal? Both the NCR and NEOS community is depending you you.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:12:40
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:13:27
content:
  I care very deeply for all ncr holders as well as all of our users - a big part of our community is both. It’s not one or the other. I wish everyone could see that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:12:58
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:14:17
content:
  and to be clear I want Neos to succeed but I dont want it to be some shitty second life knockoff. I want a real metaverse with the decentralized future in mind


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:13:12
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:18:51
content:
  Being so toxic to that extent that they would sabotage for a way to make good money on doing what they love. I dont understand.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:15:34
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:20:58
content:
  I think a lot of users agree with this sentiment of wanting to be and thinking we can be better than all those projects before.

  Especially due to the freedom of content, pay to create is a really bad model and personally i really dont like "Land" systems where you pay for areas


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:16:23
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:16:50
content:
  By bad model I mean anti creator because it builds a hostile barrier of entry for simply wanting to create content


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:17:33
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:17:49
content:
  Thats the main reason why we are not doing land on the metaverse level or any other artificial limitations


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:18:22
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:18:35
content:
  We do limit storage, but that is because storage is a limited resource IRL and we have to pay for it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:18:44
content:
  And its definitely one of Neos VRs strengths, the creativity and creation flowing out of it is testament to that


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:20:43
content:
  cant do that in neos yet but sl dont let you have your own private place without paying LOTs of money


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:21:28
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:22:01
content:
  Oh yeah that is planned, Neos being able to run multiple words at once making it quite easy to run large grids with small syncronised sectors moving seemlesly between sectors (running multiple when at the borders) was one of the initial design considerations.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:23:49
content:
  These large grids will be cool especially for AR as Neos layers for the real worldspace with multiple Neos layers for the whole planet.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:26:54
content:
  yeah long time out. I like to think forward like this, but thats why having money and funding is important


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:27:09
content:
  Depends on when good (meaning both enjoyable to use and not too expensive) Ar headsets become available


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:29:36
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:30:33
content:
  With long term projects like Neos you have to think pretty far into the future. Hard to change the base architecture when youre ten years in and there is a lot of content already.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 08:31:42
edit_date: 2022-03-06 08:32:04
content:
  Hard to predict, but it’s great that the correct decisions have been made and we are ready for that future when/if it comes.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:17:00
content:
  I just don’t see you guys can work together. Even if you do reach an agreement, no one would invest knowing your history, particularly how froox treated you and the community. No CEX would touch anything that has froox in it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:21:24
edit_date: 2022-03-06 09:24:05
content:
  He has kicked you out in public statement, the furry community is a bunch of psychopaths who claim to drink cryptobros’ tears as sodium source, and you said you question froox’ sanity at this point.  Come on let’s get real, what is your legal plan now? What can the community expect in near future?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:22:57
content:
  Yeah if it didn’t happen in 7 years, it won’t happen now that they are publicly poking eyes. You need to realize that froox has nuked Karel’s life project here, justified or not(I’d say not)


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:24:05
content:
  What is happening now is hurting peoples hard earned investment who invested in this awesome project through their token NCR


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:26:56
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:39:23
content:
  I’m still trying to reach an peaceful agreement. There’s always hope. At the same time the company is lawyering up and preparing for a legal battle. It has to. These are parallel efforts. It’s smart to do both.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:28:12
content:
  I appreciate what your saying but imo that’s beside the point. Kudos to froox and his team, they’ve made it perfectly clear that they don’t respect karel as CEO, maybe not even as a person. They have made it perfectly clear that they don’t accept working with karel any more and they don’t want NCR. It’s be karel fault to pretend otherwise.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:30:41
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:41:13
content:
  Reaching an agreement would probably mean them working independently on the engine with Solirax funding their efforts. Not directly working together. That ship seems to have sailed.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:31:33
content:
  Well karel in simple words do u mean NCR as a token will cease to exist or will have a use case because of all this disagreements among ur core teams


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:31:49
content:
  At this point I'd not go that far as to think Frooxius is 100% innocent. Furries openly curclejerking crypto is scam has gotten to him probably. There's been fight against development timelines and hiring professional help with UX, seems clear what's going on


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:33:54
content:
  I mean if me and my brother is fighting and it’s impacting family finances that’s personal but here a firm which is run by senior members and if such disconnect happens it hurts innocent people a lot who has invested in an ICO..whoever is on right side of god path should understand


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:33:55
content:
  Occam's razor. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the answer. If froox had real problems with karel, he’d have said it by now. He just wants sole control and Karel out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:34:28
content:
  Ive never heard a dev say they like a decentralized metaverse, they want some secondlife knockoff with linden dollars and shit


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:35:28
content:
  Anyway neos is a really functional metaverse if u guys can’t agree to jointly to make it progress then sell copy rights patents to some global firm like Facebook or someone who can run a business


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:35:57
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:49:26
content:
  Just fork the project and Frooxius can have a playground with his furry friends and other Neos can be developed in more professional setting. Both parties should be happy with this, unless Frooxius cares only of total control and making a name for himself.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:36:27
content:
  Whatever is happening now still neos is a awesome product which only will be killed by suicidal efforts like happening now..god bless and help


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:36:56
content:
  I do have respect, but the state of discord has been ugly for 2 months and it isn't due to "moon boys"


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:38:46
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:52:28
content:
  You will never reach an agreement unless you bury your differences and work out a compromise. It takes two to tango.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:38:53
edit_date: 2022-03-06 09:45:01
content:
  I have my doubts as well, but I’m sure some useful work would get done. Even after all that damage to our funding and ncr holders it’s important to keep in mind all the good things he has done for Neos. He can still help rehabilitate Neos and Neos Credits. Signing the Memorandum and doing a positive joint statement would be a great first step.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:45:34
edit_date: 2022-03-06 09:46:32
content:
  I'd also point out that none have attacked Frooxius in the way furries have bashed Karel for months now. Speaks volumes in itself, still they think they have the moral high ground. And Frooxius has these people all around him 24/7. Talk about toxic environment and poisoning of the well.

  Still hope settlement can be reached but seems unlikely considering above.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 09:48:18
edit_date: 2022-03-06 15:54:45
content:
  Most of them happen to be furries, but I would like to say I like furries generally and am very grateful for them using Neos. They have been great supporters over the years.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 10:50:52
edit_date: 2022-03-06 16:05:36
content:
  I just don’t thing a positive joint statement where both parties are expected to work together will be well received by anyone-investors, players, business partners. That’s like working with a ticking bomb.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 10:53:14
content:
  Karel may be the visionary and because of it has been attacked by rest of team who dont like it 🤷🏽‍♂️


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 12:57:44
content:
  It's not our fault if the only people that is willing to join happens to be furry, attacking fandoms over the management of the game is awful. 

  The more casual communities, like anime and whatever else, don't want to put up with the game in its current state with so many features missing and sub par fbt doesn't help, the hips movement is wrong, the neck crunching problem is very common, and making avatars is still too hard for most that are used to simply dropping a unity package and hitting upload immediately without doing any additional work


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:02:19
content:
  A lot of strife also comes down to the UI being a mess, it confuses people all the time and isn't very well explained, like the inventory icons


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:03:20
content:
  I've also seen people rage at the controls of double joystick for movement as they expected Vrchat clone controls, and they can't figure out the laser either


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:04:27
content:
  I'm getting tired of all the " furries vs crypto " it's lame, needless and only highlights that part to outsiders


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:05:34
content:
  Only now khosumi? Got tired of it after a week and the same names on discord have been going about it for a month now


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:05:59
content:
  I think a lot of the angry people will fade over time. They sold and are still really mad, but they will disappear over time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:07:10
content:
  The price is bottomed out now at least and didn't go to 0 like everyone thought it would the other day.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:07:51
content:
  Showing a lot of support around 30 cents, which is no surprise since that is around where the price boom started.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:07:53
content:
  the price action is irrelevant at this stage tbh. Questions on the table are will Neos survive the year? will solirax break apart under legal battles


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:12:41
edit_date: 2022-03-06 13:13:41
content:
  I believe it is better to spend more energy on the game engine than the coin as the game being successful will lead to the coin inherently gaining value and utility, artificially keeping a price up is not something I foresee increasing the game's popularity


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:18:54
content:
  But neos doesn't host anything in terms of servers. That's mostly p2p sessions or headless servers set up by people


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 13:38:15
content:
  You can setup a local server for Neos? I know about local home, but can you play Neos without even logging in or connecting to any outside servers?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 14:10:17
content:
  Karel  Someone said on Twitter you got a new Benz AMG G63. And don't care the token anymore. Is that true ?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 14:12:56
content:
  You don't get access to asset variants, so things would take forever to load if you had say a world loaded like this


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 15:05:56
content:
  Guys, please share link to this group in the old neos credits community chat, I can't seem to find the link


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 15:50:52
content:
  A lot of the issues come from the funds not going where they should have been used, namely game development, and the coin basically not having any utility in game while tarnishing the game's reputation across outside communities because of its forced integration. Karel and froox etc have to come to an understanding that would benefit both the platform (Which in this case would be not including the coin as first party) and allowing NCR to have special advantages over other currencies for payment options


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 15:55:31
content:
  There should be a finance guy (not CEO himself), to guide the team how to spent the money along with the roadmap.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 15:56:14
content:
  well karel has been speaking a lot about having enough money to hire additional people but never came through with it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:01:54
content:
  i have to ask, can NCR grow as a separate entity from Neos entirely, but have internally no fees so your currency has an advantage over the rest?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:03:03
content:
  I'm asking because from the gaming world, seeing crypto integration forced in without any utility yet seems a little.. odd


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:04:35
content:
  while true I think what most people are after is the marketplace integration, and this is very far away still


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:04:36
content:
  how about seed VCs? Heard they hold 15% of the company's voting power? Can they come in to help mitigate the situation?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:05:39
content:
  I've heard you say this I think a few times, what exactly do you mean by Neos and NCR not being separable, I don't want to put any words in your mouth


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:08:58
content:
  Ah alright thanks for clarifying because the initial feel was more a statement to whether Neos can continue surviving without it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:10:54
content:
  I have the opinion that the coin having a concurential advantage over others by adding a "service fee" for other payment methods would cover your desire for NCR to be the preferred payment method, though I"m not sure on the legality of that


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:13:39
content:
  Imposing fees on people for not using the "preferred" currency seems a bit bleh to me just from a gut feeling


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:15:47
content:
  Steam takes a fee, PayPal takes a fee. Those are not artificial ones that would go away without NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:16:30
content:
  Having our own payment system means no fees because Neos already made money with mint and selling buyback NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:21:28
content:
  Once you played gamefi , They usually 2 token inside the economic designing  . Once is like $NCR, which represent the shares to the economy , other like $vNCR, It's use in the game to transaction .  Stake $NCR, get $vNCR.   $vNCR could be burnt inside the game through same activity   to keep the entomic  balance /stable.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:23:30
content:
  The main Advantage i see from NCR is for one no internal processing fees and for two not having to bow down to the still massively Christian puritan views of Mastercard and Visa, who are still to this day heavy-handed as hell lording over Paypal forcing them to not allow Adult content


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:29:31
content:
  My paypals not really a secret but decided to redact it anyway, this is via gumroad may just be how they process it with paypal


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 16:37:51
edit_date: 2022-03-06 17:19:04
content:
  Just me though, I know there’s a lot of anger from people who left they’ll leave but there’s always a large audience for NCR they’ll soon realise it’s value and stupid low price


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 17:39:20
edit_date: 2022-03-06 17:39:48
content:
  I'd disagree with the slipping technicaly lead, while VRC are trying to catch up their solutions are frankly a bit in bad taste for most of us avatar creators, and things like OCR being integrated as a primary solution to input is a very bleak outlook. Not to mention that VRC is still fully prebaked and not a dynamic system, even if they supported the same input devices they will never fundamentally get ahead of neos because this core difference of a fully dynamic malleable world VS a prebaked environment is just a fundamental difference and issue with how VRC and other "competition" is built


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 17:40:56
content:
  Even if it does become a third party thing if it’s the preferred currency by one means or another I don’t see how this makes any difference to ncr value once marketplace comes out tbh


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 17:45:53
edit_date: 2022-03-06 17:46:09
content:
  Definitely gotta agree their and also its kinda hypocritical for them to allow OSC after one of their excuses for not allowing mods was user security, just a massive eye roll from me as both an Avatar Creator and Mod maker


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 17:58:43
edit_date: 2022-03-06 17:59:07
content:
  Basically someone makes an OSC program that for example translates your eye look direction into rotational values, they then release that software and you install and use it on "good faith"

  Which can never go wrong of course /s


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:03:09
content:
  they won't because then they don't have to make a program for them to vouch the tiny amount of mods that exists


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:04:57
edit_date: 2022-03-06 18:05:29
content:
  One massive thing about neos that is not talked about enough also is, if you make a world you are the sole owner of that world, no one, neither moderation nor team members nor froox himself have a backdoor to let themselves into your world. Some competitiors have such backdoors built in and its honestly gross


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:06:20
content:
  The security backdoor exists for the moderation teams to peep in on any time, it used to exist for the old button that requested a moderator to be summoned, but since nobody actually did their job properly the button was removed but the backdoor remained.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:09:18
content:
  Not looked too far into it but given Metabooks track record i expect somethinig close to relinquishment of all rights to the hivemind


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:16:38
content:
  Not worth to invest time into a metaverse that won't be open sourced and doesn't have crypto, too risky


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:18:57
content:
  Crypto is just an initial funding and also internal market thing.
  Basically the internal transfers dont produce fees which savess money


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:21:18
content:
  One gaming example is SS13 an open source Game project where we all run our own deentralized servers and have hundreds of forks we all work on independently and port between eachother features and improvements

  And this all without ANY monetary incentive


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:23:29
content:
  That's why crypto is needed, if it isn't Neos, that's cool. It just won't be the metaverse of choice for many people due to this


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:25:28
content:
  I hate to bring politics into this but crypto is not safe https://fortune.com/2022/02/18/freedom-convoy-protests-canada-lawsuit-freeze-crypto-wallets-ottawa/


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:25:46
content:
  I think you guys are right. That's what my mentor said about you guys not having to launch your own cryptocurrency


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:29:01
content:
  Don't worry, politics are part of our lives we want it or not. Seems like they targeted centralized exchanges


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:30:47
content:
  Nothing has vanished, access hasn't been lost or assets frozen if your holding your keys. It's more to safeguard you, on this case, from Soliraxis


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:33:32
content:
  Not sure why people are coming up with weird lies like this. you can freeze a fiat offramp but not the wallets


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:34:53
content:
  its funny though because as were seeing in the news, they CAN freeze banks, credit cards, virtually everything else lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:37:17
content:
  the point is that these services exists at all, and many users do use them. And since it is a service, then it is legally possible to have them frozen


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:38:05
content:
  its just weird to bring up in light of russian sanctions, which imo shows what states can do to your finances if they choose, and can do it on a massive scale


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:43:23
content:
  edge case being wallets being frozen and that being a relevant argument why NCR shouldnt exist and you should get to rugpull people


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:46:09
content:
  and dont pretend you give a damn about their wellbeing because I can read your mask-off on the discord


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:50:39
content:
  I think thats the shortterm direction to head toward, and other concepts of decentralized ownership I also believe in, including those horrible NFTs


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:51:27
content:
  though in the immediate term, I want NCR holders to not be under literal attack and being rugpulled by thr company they trusted enough to buy from.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:51:38
content:
  Karel The CTO and the team have to go. Shouldn't we put aside our idealism for a while? Let's try not relying on vr projects first. vr also has a very long cycle time? Two geniuses around me both made $100 million in a year with a few hundred thousand dollars. I have a smartphone entrepreneur on my side, he used to have a 1000 person Android development team, he finishes financing next month and he is building his own team. I can introduce you guys if you need?


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:51:43
content:
  I still dont get the point behind NFTs within Neos, it doesnt seem to fulfill any purpose Licensing could not fulfill on its own


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:52:45
content:
  its so beyond me that the furries of this game pretend to be nice people but DESPERATELY want to see people who dared to believe in crypto get devastated and a rugpull to be justified


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:56:07
content:
  but I believe in decentralized ownership and building the structures that enable ot because Ive playrd way too many games that give you no cpnsumer rights


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:57:21
content:
  Actually i havent even considered the privacy questions of this.

  Ive not looked much into how visible NFTs are but is hwo is holding an NFT as visible as who is holding a token?

  Because if that's the case then im a bit iffy on NFTs not ust because environment but because i like to yknow, not have to share everything i buy with the wide web


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:57:21
content:
  we're aware, that's why we're asking to fix things like the UI and UX before adding more crypto into the game


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:59:14
content:
  You can see the public address, privacy depends on how you handle the address. I imagine Neos would hold the NFTs in managed wallets for those who don’t want to hold those directly. Same as with NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 18:59:21
edit_date: 2022-03-06 18:59:30
content:
  Yeah a hostile takeover would probably end really badly especially if people go hard strike and just start deleting their content not just leaving


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:01:06
content:
  It's good to hear that that's considered because in todays world it's really tiring how little care about privacy there is from some


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:01:41
content:
  The art nft market has a lot of problems. We are just starting to explore it. The team is art insiders and the math is very good. If there is a need for collaboration in nft, we have some resources


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:01:54
content:
  crypto needs more privacy features, but it takes alot of very smart engineers to solve those problems


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:02:20
content:
  Look, don't think for a second I want the team to split or any half to be kicked out. Every day this goes on Neos is killing itself slowly. Just bringing some reality to both sides. People will want open sourced metaverse that embraces crypto, you're talking of very small subset of people while I'm pointing to tens of millions of future users


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:02:45
content:
  privacy is evolving, even in blockchains. In the next few months we will have ways to add a privacy layer. Lots of work happening now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:05:56
content:
  we just want the existing players, or the subset of them that hate us, to just accept NCR as a part of neos. We stuck our neck out and didnt expect the community to try to excise us because crypto is a political issue in recent years


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:06:15
edit_date: 2022-03-06 23:49:02
content:
  People certainly wouldn’t leave because Neos goes open source. That’s a good thing. Froox pushed for us to go open source way back and now we are both on board with NCR and Patreon providing funds.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:06:41
content:
  We are now competing with "games" / metaverse projects that have 10k different players (last week). Small is a relative number...


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:06:43
content:
  For me personally, the marketplace is the one main feature I have been waiting on. I even held off on starting non-neos related projects because the marketplace was suppose to be one of the next main features added. That was more then a year ago. The marketplace was targeted to be the main feature of last year.

  New Ui and shit would be nice. But what I really want is for the my main gig to be making games for the metaverse.

  Because it took so long, and I have little confidence in a market releasing anytime soon, I opted to start my projects independent of neos.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:07:02
content:
  Not really. If you actually think about it any functionality crypto has can be 100% replaced with traditional methods with no functional impact on the game


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:09:12
content:
  Yes, it can be but it always comes back to the fundamental difference between fiat and crypto. One is under your control while the other isn't. Millions will want something they are in control of, especially in mwtaverse they are going to spend a lot of money and their time in


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:09:16
content:
  This is somewhat off topic but my favorite Karel quote out of everything, twitter and telegram and discord is definiely this sassy clapback


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:13:06
content:
  If it's an avatar, most models are sold online, and even if you want to sell one in world, you can simply display the 3d model in the world with a web browser next to it


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:13:49
content:
  the only valid argument against NCR Ive heeard is "oh my highly political friends are like 'ew yucky crypto' when I try to get then to play" but really thats just a problem with the people presenting things wrong


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:14:20
content:
  One thing i hope the ingame market will support is the ability to make gift codes or such so that you can give people who bought off platform access on platform easily


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:15:19
content:
  it's a lot more simple to input a credit card number than to go through the hoops of creating a crypto account


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:18:03
content:
  Beyond that it still doesn't solve what I was saying that any other traditional payment method can cover the needs that crypto wants to fulfill


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:18:23
content:
  One kinda neat thing at least in my area is that nowadays you dont need credit cards anymore for online pay, our debit cards now work as "credit cards" online


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:23:25
content:
  If Indodnt give a shit about neos THE GAME i woudlnt have stuck my neck out and bought the goddamn token


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:26:55
content:
  Personally Im looking forward to Rigid bodies, Collections, Modular modifiable UX, Hard Permissions and more


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:28:53
edit_date: 2022-03-06 19:29:02
content:
  yeh this really, I mean what really matters are what game modes can be built and I dun know enough about frooxengine and unity to know what could be improved that would enable thr kind of gsmeplay modes id wanns see (namely pvp game modes)


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:29:28
content:
  Which would open the doors somewhat to Neos also as a music making platform on top of the general engine parts


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:29:44
content:
  game modes are entirely dependant on how much access to the code like with logix and component, namely component access would be fantastic


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:30:57
content:
  They would spin up physical server for each piece of land there was, hence the rent costs, you were paying for server upkeep


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:32:48
content:
  the only way I could think of right now would be to have portals on the edges of maps, but then you have to load into a new world. That can be mitigated by adding world pre loading


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:33:37
content:
  I dunno honestly alot of people really speak highly of thebplayer homes of ultima online and starwars galaxies


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:33:38
content:
  Yeah preloading we've been toying with for a while in the community also, at least to the best of our ability to try and make things more seamless


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:36:08
content:
  If Orc and Khosumi can ever become friends, there is hope for the furry and crypto bro communities to one day unite. Fulfill the prophecy you two.


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:36:45
content:
  One possible thing would be to grid slice a world into 4 sections and if you move towards one side a different world loads in the background, or a heavier option to load all 4 worlds along with the main world you are in, this would be a bit intensive


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:38:33
content:
  Yep, it can be as silly as someone not liking what another person put in their parcel and complaining to the landlord


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:42:09
content:
  but I'm also worried about performance issues, like having so many avatars and objects loaded at once could absolutely destroy VR performances


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:44:04
content:
  i will admit this, I came to SL to grief when I was little. I went on a griefing spree but got converted into an actual player. it was some furries who were really friendly who got me to stay


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:44:38
content:
  when I trapped then in cages they were like "oh no hehe" and were tslking to me and I realized they were nice ppl


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:45:34
content:
  the closest we have is zenith VR and that looks awful, blurry as fuck, object pop in like in the N64 days


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:59:02
content:
  there is the issue of the extreme popularity of quest headsets, many casuals picks it up because oculus was well known, and meta bought them balbla whatever, point being, unless facebook starts making better hardware, lowest common denominator will keep graphics and all at this level


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 19:59:43
content:
  but since these headsets are sold at a loss, gaining their money back from data harvesting, it's not likely to change


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 20:01:02
content:
  if you make your worlds too complex, quest users don't see it, their headsets literally don't have enough memory or graphics power


type: message
date: 2022-03-06 21:36:50
content:
  That's a super hard question.

  Game wise im currently very much into Tanks 3000
  Scoail hangout wise im slightly biased towards Critter Canyon because i was part in working on it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 00:41:54
content:
  Sounds like a scam, always use a trustless contract such as https://trader.airswap.io/ OTC trader to make sure your transaction goes through only if the other side really commits the funds.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 00:47:46
content:
  LP staking might be interesting as well, but would require a custom contract probably. Will look into that too.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 00:54:55
content:
  Can the WhiltePaper 1.06 get the approval from Frooxius? Not the negative announcement in public again ..


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:03:25
content:
  Agree. I think it’s time Karel harshens his tone. Froox is winning this PR war making karel looking like a rebel, while in fact it’s froox that is betraying NCR, cofounder as well as NEOS by paralyzing it on all ends. He is the one that went rogue. Stop saying that the white paper needs froox’ approval, because he made it very clear that he is betraying his previous commitment to ncr.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:04:29
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:05:59
content:
  You are arguing under the assumption that froox agreed to it understanding everything about it from the start, and didn't simply trust karel into managing it correctly.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:06:54
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:07:58
content:
  Yes, but a board voting takes a lot less than that, after which it would be a legal battle between a company and a broke developer. Not that I’m hoping for this, but froox pretty clearly doesn’t care about destroying lives of many, including Karel’s.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:08:55
content:
  its either court or we all get rugpulled by malicious furries who want you to fund their game and then fuck you over


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:09:00
content:
  Not true. Solirax took my money with froox’ blessing on NCR. Now he wants to cut it loose. You have to take responsibility somewhere.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:10:25
content:
  these guys live for drama and i dunno if you been to the discord, but they spend 16 hours a day talking about Karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:11:56
content:
  Too much drama for Karel,  like  he got a brand new BENZ or TESLA,  He treat Frooxius like morden slave .   Team got no dime for development from ICO etc...


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:12:27
content:
  Froox had a chance to do what he truly lived for the rest of his life, without ever worrying about earthly mundanes like money. Be blew it. You think his friends are gonna stick around and find B2B jobs and liaison in between so that froox’ pet project can keep afloat?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:14:00
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:14:35
content:
  IMO Karel has tried to do what’s best for his investors with buybacks etc however Froox has always been there to cause panic just like he did with his latest statement there was no need for it, so much for him trying to stay silent this was a deliberate act of malice against ncr holders and it has worked Ofcourse


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:14:28
content:
  The value of the company probably dropped by at least an order of magnitude yes. But hard to say we are not listed on an exchange.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:14:42
content:
  he and froox and all the devs should have fat paychecks and Neos development would be speeding if not for petty drama


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:15:01
content:
  The furries don’t give a shit about froox’ interest. When this shitatorm dies down and furries move to the next drama, froox is going to be left all alone. Even froox defenders know that he is not a socially competent person.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:15:42
content:
  anyway thr stardock star control case I remember the entire internet was against the company for defending itself and every armchair reddit lawyer confidently said they would lose but a court gave them the IP


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:18:05
content:
  Froox is actually in an extremely vulnerable position, that’s why the furries actions look all the more disgusting to me.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:18:18
content:
  please be careful whats said here, there are dozens of little creeps lurking and posting everything here to incite shit


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:19:00
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:19:17
content:
  The question was how much I have lost not the company. Valuation of the company is a hard thing to estimate until actual trade.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:21:35
content:
  Yeah, all they seem to do is hurt ncr holders. The people who are funding Neos. How ungrateful is that. Really bogles my mind.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:21:53
content:
  Don’t wanna sound like a broken record but….no exchange would touch NCR if neos’ development is in anyway dependent on you two working together. No one would invite that kind of negative PR and potential legal challenges to themselves.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:22:51
content:
  Frooxius doesn't like you to communicate with us like this channel .  So  the "3rd party , no 1th place for NCR, etc" scared the market.  We had to guess what really  happened , what would be  the worst scenario .


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:23:10
content:
  thats what your discord has done and what your dev team has allowed. Your devs have allowed a toxic community to fester and allowed us all to be treated like shit. This is the result


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:23:19
content:
  It’s actually quite complex, many arguments for the company, some for Froox. Depends on what IP specifically. But on the whole the company is in a much stronger position.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:23:27
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:25:59
content:
  He said we don’t want NCR and “we want NCR funding for development” in the same statement. He is not even pretending to be reasonable.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:25:17
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:25:41
content:
  yeah he was like "gimme your money ok now fuck off and enjoy your third party token, you csn wait for my next monthly statement where I try to fuck you over with a statement timed right to when positivr change happens"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:27:20
content:
  I remember devs getting PISSED at the buyback. they were like "wtf stop, we want ETH we dont want NCR! NCR is for thr cryptobros to be dumped with"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:28:35
content:
  He’s fucked. His career is over and I feel bad for him. He was a technical genius with no interest in the earthly matters, and god gave him a chance to never have to worry about money any more, while doing the one thing he loved, yet he blew it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:35:34
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:36:23
content:
  The whole situation makes me sad, and not just because of what happened to NCR - but because Neos could have changed the world and been the David to the Goliath of Facebook's Metaverse initiatives. A decentralized open virtual world is exactly what the world needs, not monolithic walled gardens like Horizon Worlds. Crypto falls much more in line with that ethos vs a proprietary currency like the Linden dollar. It boggles my mind that people were celebrating NCR no longer being officially supported.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:37:51
content:
  Agree.   Once it open-source.   It's a great tool to help human  in education , communication very well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:40:55
content:
  Once Frooxius announces he agree whith 1.0* whitepaper and move on .  There is no need for buyback .


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:41:33
content:
  If NCR is now detached from Neos, I'm curious what the planned utility is outside of being another store of value. A while back Tangle and I discussed the possibility of an OpenSea style virtual goods marketplace that had an open API for all metaverse projects to connect into. I'm thinking Neos Credits could potentially pivot into being the currency of something like that - which would still have Neos compatibility as a 3rd party.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:45:09
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:45:52
content:
  If they think ncr has no value then buybacks seem bad. If you think ncr will be valuable then cheap buybacks seem like a great idea. Depends on how bullish the person is.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:45:28
content:
  Will NCR continue being the official currency of Neos with an in-world balance and such? I'm a little confused as to the terms of the current arrangement following Froox's announcement. Will it function like Linden Lab's Tilia 3rd party payment processor but still have native Neos integration?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:45:45
content:
  If i was Frooxius,  and i want the team get profits,  Will ask them to buy $NCR,  and announce will keep moving to make this project great .  Instead of arguing money didnt come to developing


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 01:47:46
edit_date: 2022-03-07 01:48:00
content:
  Karel - FYI, not sure if you are aware, but the discord is monitoring and downloading a mirror of this Telegram chat. I would be careful about ur public statements here (and elsewhere for that matter).


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 02:02:52
content:
  For the mirror . 1. I really do not understand the anti-crypto people ,  crypto is an option to store common sense  only.  Just a tool.  2. Metaverse  would be  a place for global players to  join in, Fiat was limited in many countries to transfer outside like China/Russia/Ukraine etc. 3. Crypto is not toxic  , it  makes NEOS unique ,  If NEOS run as a regular VR company , the competitors would be Meta. They have much more money and influence .  4.  If you don't want NEOS  just to be a small playground , you must make NEOS has unique value .


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 02:11:25
content:
  Karel - another piece of unsolicited advice - I would edit the Neos website ASAP. It technically can still be construed as soliciting investment into NCR, but there is no information about the current dispute which would undoubtedly be material information for any potential investor. Opens up the entire company to some troubles if, for example, a new investor minted ICO without logging into the Discord or Telegram or checking Twitter.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 02:25:28
content:
  +crypto isnt only for saving fees. It makes global/local commercial much much easier than paypal. 
  For instance, if I want to have some kind of commercial store for sales pupose in Neos, I really cant use paypal for payment method. I bet same for most of Asian countries.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 02:29:03
content:
  I feel Karel/everyone very stressed for this situation.... hope things get better soon. 
  Wonder what is the key for Froox in this negotiation...


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 03:32:30
content:
  shows the childish headspace Neos team is in where they think they can "third party" you stake in something, disassociate with you and think its legal


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 03:56:37
content:
  also I'm sure you have noticed but I find it strange that most of the discord mods are also siding with Froox.  Something smells fishy but I'm sure most of us don't know the full extent of what's going on


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 03:57:14
content:
  In fact, iirc there was a lot of exit liquidity provided by karel himself in the form of buybacks for a lot of people


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 03:57:57
content:
  People are using rugpull in the general sense as in = sudden decision or action that tanks the value of the coin to essentially zero


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 03:59:18
content:
  yep seems like rug is quite a loose term.  A lot of sudden decisions that happened in a blink of an eye


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 04:10:06
content:
  Based on Geenz's statement in discord, this will be a long and ugly fight. Unless Czech/UK copyright law is materially different from US law (not sure what would apply here tbh), then the code work completed by much of the dev team would appear to belong to them as sole or joint authors. 

  Even if Karel/Solirax has claim to some other parts of the code, my understanding is that it will be almost impossible to disentangle from the work by these other devs who didn't sign contracts. Very messy. 

  Neos will most likely survive, and perhaps NCR as well in some form. But it seems the story for the foreseeable future will be litigation. I'll probably continue to check in periodically to see where this all ends up, but this isn't an actionable investment anymore for the time being.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 04:17:57
content:
  No, but if Karel/Solirax owns certain rights to critical parts of the code, that puts Froox and team in the same bind.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 04:19:03
content:
  yes. They buy ncr at this low price. Market resume confidence. Price go back. They continue working and get money from token price appreciation. Problem solved.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 04:21:21
content:
  I think there are some hard feelings leftover from when NCR was crashing through the liq wall after Froox's last announcement, and the other telegram was getting dogpiled by discord members basically celebrating the crypto community losing money. Hopefully this divide will dissipate - Khosumi and others have been just fine in here, and I think (most) people see that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 04:24:44
content:
  I am being peaceful, I am not creating chaos here, stop antagonizing me. You are disturbing the peace


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 05:41:17
content:
  Karel & Reactant as only owners of this group: please spend a few mins and add either Miss Rose or Shieldy. Those are free tools that can easily help and prevent bad actors (including bots spams).


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 07:29:00
content:
  Plenty of coders around the world who could continue the work on crypto version of Neos. Hire a team and push for open sourcing


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 08:49:57
content:
  Well, he should show something cool for scale up soon. 
  If he proves to do good for Neos, noone will question him. If he doesnt prove soon enough, then unhappy results will come


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:07:01
content:
  yes and NCR had existed since 2018. you saying none of that money went to devs? froox said NCR kept neos from going bankrupt 2 years ago


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:11:03
content:
  money can go to devs easily. as long as they go back to cooperative attitude and seek for some crypto VCs for help.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:13:29
content:
  rather than just a straight up anonymous party dumping tokens or something, its like a meek uwu version of it that pretends to be innocent


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:15:21
content:
  you need to make sure holding the token gives you rights to Neos first. You need to make an agreement with both karel and Frooxius.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:24:21
content:
  The best option would be that someone come in to buy-in a share of tokens at a cheap price, and give that additional money to dev teams as salary, in exchange for the dev teams to sign an agreement admitting the rights of NCR for certain. Everyone takes a step back, everyone bear some lost but also resume some value, then everyone could get an exit for this deadly traffic jam.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:27:27
content:
  rest of devs Ive seen liking comments on twitter where users were cheering that NCR is getting removed


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:33:36
content:
  Like mentioned earlier, Neos is still in development phase. Fork would be best, the current small playerbase can continue with Froox and others can move on with crypto Neos version


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:34:02
content:
  really because ncr has been out since 2018 and youre saying in 4 years no one has touched the money gotten from it?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:35:18
content:
  I prefer it to fighting in courts for years at worst case. That would only hurt Neos. Who knows, Froox might even lose in court, not sure he could move on from that


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:36:24
content:
  I support court option honestly. I think only shortterm speculators care that court could tale years


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:41:38
content:
  crypto and NFT only recently became a hot topic for kids to groan about on twitter. they will forget it and move onto the next drama to dogpile on


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:45:31
content:
  Then help them go back to negotiation. Karel might be mismanaged, but Froox's negligence contributed as well. Everyone steps back a little and finds a way out. I am fine with my lost actually. I just can't stand for such irrational result.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:46:41
content:
  the thing is that the differences are personal, and Froox has 12 other devs and a community that has grown toxic all telling him he's a hero


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:47:17
content:
  Froox cant just make up with karel when everyone is deeply attached to their idea that Karel is the villain


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:51:25
content:
  I know. So I am trying to tell everyone who speak for Froox that they need to seek for negotiation. Not community drama.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:52:04
content:
  I think the "signed" whitepaper was a mistake and he removed the signature within 24 hours. It was an edit of a previous whitepaper, and i think ppl are being oppertunistic by trying to blow it up this much but it doesnt matter what I think about it cuz im no lawyer


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:54:16
content:
  being treated like im a fucking nazi or somethkng because i dare to believe in decentral tech like blockchain


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:55:01
content:
  Orc, [2022/3/7 5:53 PM]
  enduring months of a mostly furry community treating you like shit then getting their way.  ——  same here


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:55:05
content:
  and seeing the devs do nothing to curtail it or reign it back and have this laisse faire attitude to things letting their community get drunk off cheap drama


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:56:01
content:
  They accused karel is an abuser to froox while ask froox to work with karel again. Just delusional. Time for Separation


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 09:58:57
edit_date: 2022-03-07 09:59:12
content:
  Karel is the only one who gives a damn about the holders so he became our "hero" plus he actuslly talks to us.

  didnt they say the main issue is not pay? the worst part of all of this is that the dispute is shrouded in mystery


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:01:59
edit_date: 2022-03-07 10:02:07
content:
  regarding the whitepaper signature, froox did NOT have to add in that he wanted NCR to become third party. that was either irresponsible or tactical


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:05:20
content:
  I do. what they csnt be adults? culture clash I mean come on. sny crypto ppl coming in were in thr NCR chat and it was others WILLINGLY going into the ncr channel just to find petty arguments


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:07:54
edit_date: 2022-03-07 10:15:43
content:
  the ncr channel was furries coming in LOOKING for arguments. thats what irks me about furries, they want to look all cute and lovable but in reality many are nasty fucking people addicted to drama and a tendency to act like highschool cliques and bullies


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:14:21
content:
  Geez it’s been more than a month. This kinda talk happened time and time again, in discord, unofficial tg, and here again?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:17:22
content:
  Ham's point is not lost on me. Neos is insular, small and they conduct themselves like a private club, not like a future platform and their treatment of the holders that funded them and then to not simply tell the community to chill and just accept that ncr was a thing says alot


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:17:47
content:
  I've encountered several person who acts as if they are "helping me understanding the whole thing". But when I talking about go back to negotiation they ignored the topic and when I cannot agree with the "Karel is evil thing" they suddenly dropped their polite mask and started personal-attack.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 10:22:11
content:
  but point being that competition is real and many of these social vr platforms will be forgotten in coming years


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:35:52
content:
  Mint was the investment into Neos, the NCR itself is a utility for buying space and paying for assets on Neos Store in the future


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:39:08
content:
  The point was, as Neos would get bigger and bigger, demand for NCR would rise and because NCR is a limited supply it would instead be more valuable over time. So by slowly trickling the NCR you minted at the beginning you'd make a huge return. That was my theory, but then the crypto pump and dump scheme happened, making NCR bubble up and then burst


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:42:47
content:
  Now with the two owners having conflicting visions about what Neos will be and how fast development should advance, I don't know any more if this platform will survive


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:43:36
content:
  But I really hope there will be a solution that makes Neos itself to still be available and be at least something that is already existing today


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:50:04
content:
  Going into a legal battle will be devastating for them both and especially for the company.

  Even tho Karel isn't in a great spot with the recent "signature" drama, Froox's situation is even worse at this point.

  Regarding the recent statements :

  Doing harmfull statements (publicly) can be seens as acts that comprimise the asset of the company, therefore resulting in financial losses.

  It goes against the social interets of the company since it exposes the firm to abnormal risks of legal and penal sanctions towards the company and its managers.

  It also damages the reputation and the any form of trust given to the company (which can be desbribed as social credit).

  The social asset of the firm has been exposed to an injustified risk due to these, perhaps necessary, but, harmfull statements.

  In regard of these statements these can be seen as Froox using his powers (rights to do public announcements in the name of the team and company) in a way that doesn’t serve the social interets of the company.
  In this case, the only way to start a legal dispute is to lead an "Ut singuli" action which is only reserved to the company stakeholders, associates or managers.
  The action must be done in the name of the company only and aims to its protection and the preservation of the company's interets.
  Meaning that neither Karel nor Froox can be sued by individuals like us for the so called "mismanagement".

  So please, try to handle this privatly. I know that Karel is doing his best to fix the damages but for now an agreement must be made before going outloud in public.

  I'am sure you guys will find the best way to ensure a grow and sustainable developement for NEOS. The futures of both Neos and NCR look bright.

  We don't need to keep on antigonizing any more.

  We, as a community, need to rebuild trust and stop hating each others. Every one of use bring something to the table, we need to keep these interactions civil and TOLERATE others, this applies to everyone. Thank you ❤️


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 11:56:16
edit_date: 2022-03-07 13:22:50
content:
  wanted to add that it was absolutely unnecessary for Froox to drop the bomb that he was proposing for NCR to be dropped and unsupported It had nothing to do with the signature issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:03:37
content:
  twitter had a huge nft crypto obsession where everyone was acting like these nft people were ruining video games


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:04:35
content:
  then crypto ppl start going into the discord and those furries see the crypto ppl theyve hated for months now and just couldnt not engage them


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:05:31
content:
  mods should have acted gracefully on it but didnt and let it get vile and cryptobros were getting upset


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:05:39
content:
  Is it still trustworthy? Why hasn't there been any useful information disclosed in the past few days?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:06:39
content:
  Sorry but 60m funding deserves to be wiped off, if froox is acting how he is. Imagine if froox had access to the wallets and then put his statement out saying he was sidelining ncr. LOL?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:06:39
content:
  Only thing that matters is can Froox and Karel settle, this seems unlikely. So the next step is court battle. So it's just more waiting


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:16:01
content:
  If that’s the case it would be a serious problem. Karel’s response on this issue is something like “our lawyers have sorted this out and the fairly certain that the company owns most of the code”. Would be great if he could elaborate on that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:45:36
content:
  So I don't remember joining this chat. I looked and I wasn't able to find when I was added to here. Were people being invited en-masse from the unofficial Neos Credits chat?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 12:47:47
edit_date: 2022-03-07 12:48:09
content:
  I exported the whole chat and control-F'd the whole thing and no "Nammi joined the chat via" or "X invited Nammi"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:13:12
content:
  I don't see the lesson here, except for the thing that investments aren't always successful and you can lose everything


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:49:22
content:
  btw, the NCR price is currently at that price that would have been its actual value it would have today if all this disagreement didn't happen


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:49:48
content:
  Common scam is when someone replicates entire TG groups (including message history) and adds everyone possible to the new channel


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:51:41
content:
  Are we waiting for lawyers to basically split up the company and karel goes one way with ncr and the code, and froox the other way with the code


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:53:29
content:
  I'm afraid it'd be Karel staying in the company Solirax with Solirax being the sole owner of all the IP including the asset servers and account database and Frooxius given the option of either staying in the company as CTO or leaving with practically nothing


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:57:40
content:
  Because the whole code base that is in Neos is practically written by Frooxius alone and practically contributing everything to Solirax as the CTO


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 14:59:13
content:
  This is very inaccurate, there multiple contributors to the code base and just because you create something while part of the company doesn’t necessarily mean the company owns it, I own all my internal tools


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:00:02
content:
  But I am very sure that there is no line in Frooxengine that hasn't been touched or changed by Frooxius


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:06:09
content:
  Tbh it prob would be best for both to be seperated but ncr remain first party with profits shared to the team


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:06:32
content:
  I think that may well end up being the case even in a court of law due to too many confounding factors at play


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:12:15
content:
  It'd be stupid to accept code into Neos without a contributors agreement. That'd be a mistake by whoever accepts contributions into the code base


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:13:34
content:
  But given that I have an idea how much of those contributions actually went into the released Neos they a neglible


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:16:50
content:
  Honestly I’m surprised you didn’t know this with how vocal prime is every time someone brings up the misconception that froox is the only dev


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:17:32
content:
  so legally that means that if there was no agreement then they own the IP to their own work regardless if it’s coded into Neos now?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:27:53
content:
  I don't think this is the core competitiveness, because it has been carried out for seven years, but it has not been accepted by many people. But after Facebook changed its name, more people will know about it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:29:48
content:
  Frankly, its worth betting at this price.

  If NCR doesnt get dettached as a 3rd party -> 20 cents super cheap

  If NCR turns out to be 3rd party payment which is kind of rugpull -> it would worth.. nearly nothing or at least worth 1600ETH, which is about 10 cents.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:30:09
content:
  Technology is only a means to realize ideas, but it does not mean that everyone can accept it. The product itself is constantly iterated according to users' demands. However, the development of neos does not see this.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:33:11
content:
  However, it does not attract more people, does it? Who can guarantee that neos will have 10,000 users by the end of the year? Can the technical team set relevant goals? Is there any feasible path or solution?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:37:28
content:
  No, I'm talking about setting goals. Without goals, a group of people are playing and will never become great products. varchat has surpassed neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:39:04
content:
  10,000 users? If there are more, the expectation can be reduced, for example, two thousand active users? Can you guarantee that there will be 2,000 users by the end of this year?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:39:30
content:
  Neos VR is like Second Life. The map is loaded dynamically. VRChat however is more like Sansar, map is pre-created and uploaded as a bundle.
  Guess which of the two survived?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:40:23
content:
  If the number of neos users is still five hundred after a year, do I think neos is really a good product? Or is it just Furries to make your own toys?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:42:16
content:
  Competitive Product Analysis, Competitive Advantage, product positioning, market analysis, promotion strategy, product design, too many factors need to be considered, coding is the simplest link, because there is no need to face external interference


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:44:21
content:
  Develop neos to the point it is ready for an influx of users instead of hemorrhaging new users turned off by clunky indev UX and experience?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:44:47
content:
  Compared with a professional commercial product, it is really too simple to create a product just because of interest.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:45:47
content:
  You are proposing essentially neos should mass advertise to the basic user in its current state, that would do nothing but harm neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:46:34
content:
  Being used in the education sector is also a process of business negotiation, in which the role of technicians is to improve products according to feedback needs.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:46:39
content:
  well... I guess there should be VC funding not for resource but to push business... Otherwise, neos will always be tiny project


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:50:12
content:
  Let time prove everything. After all, the product may succeed or fail. But limited life will not be wasted, will it?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:51:43
content:
  This is only the technical implementation of optimizing the existing system, which may be very disconnected from the market. Do you have a professional market analysis team? Or product manager?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:56:41
content:
  Can cto ensure that neos can survive for next seven years? If the next decade is the meta era, how can you survive the competition?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:56:56
content:
  Vrc and Neos are not direct competitors, one is an engine in of itself while the other hosts prebaked unity creations


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 15:59:38
content:
  Do you question whether vrc is not doing it or not? Or is there a problem with the way vrc did the engine directly?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:00:20
content:
  This mess is unbelievable, such a unique chance for everyone to thrive, developers, investors and owners alike. How can people so stubborn, i dont understand. There must be a commonground here


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:00:55
content:
  VRC has no reason to try and compete in beiß market of Being an engine and platform. Their system currently works for them, there is no incentive


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:01:49
content:
  If vrc has sufficient funds, can't it open a new product line? If self-developed engine is necessary


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:04:17
content:
  Because they’d need to divert notable dev power into making a whole new 3D game engine to replace unity despite their whole infrastructure depending on unity?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:04:36
content:
  If the engine can bring the huge benefits you said, whether it is acquisition or self-research, it is possible?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:06:47
content:
  It’s possible but at their stage not really feasible, they’d essentially have to either make all current content wiped or also write systems to properly port unity assst objects into their new engine


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:09:29
edit_date: 2022-03-07 16:09:52
content:
  And honestly I’m surprised we don’t have psvr support yet although that’s mostly a lack of Sony wanting to fund them like Facebook did probably


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:32:17
content:
  Reminder that if you have a problem (including with moderation itself) to make a ticket and we'll handle it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 16:55:57
content:
  Except the way it works now is they simply download your avatar's vrca bundle directly from the API with all the source files


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:10:08
content:
  Especially because in Neos, you never download other people avatars from the asset servers, so you don't know the address to download their avatars. Only way the avatar is displayed is by sending the information through LNL in a way that it is already kind of distorted and hard to revert into a usable avatar


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:11:26
content:
  I mean, the effort is much higher that is needed to get someone else's avatar in Neos, than it is in VRC


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:11:32
content:
  It's less-so that and more-so that there simply is no method to export the mesh from neos in a non-destructive way


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:13:00
content:
  That doesn't stop them from putting them into other systems that don't use the same content-id database


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:13:31
content:
  True, but when you rip something like an avatar the goal is usually to use it again or sell it for use within the same platform you ripped it from


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 17:14:48
content:
  I dunno, if there's indeed a content-id system. I'd imagine that people would just rip avatars from VRC and sell them on the Neos Store. Even using the content-id system to protect their income and even preventing original asset creators to upload their own creation


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:43:16
content:
  Err, no. We actively moderate the discord on a daily basis and allow all discussion (positive or negative) that doesn't break the guidelines. Also yes as mods we do review each and every ticket that comes in


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:48:21
content:
  you let the ncr channel turn into an hub for ppl to go into looking for arguments or passive aggressive sneers


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:50:54
content:
  its clear ppl who dont give a shit about ncr just use it as a hub to LOOK for fights and to incite ppl with ill formed opinions


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:53:56
content:
  you got ppl cheering for a rugpull and goadding that ppl lost money in your discord and are like "eh its not against the guidelines"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:54:55
content:
  and then when ppl get upset enduring that you say "gosh look what problemz crypto brings" when its your OWN community cultivating the problems


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:56:23
content:
  Why yes, I've been calling for people with such bad behavior to be actioned upon yet nothing happens


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:56:31
content:
  ive burried the hatchet and appologized and we talked cordially since but thats not ebough apparently


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 18:59:19
content:
  you only exist here to screenshot things and try to subvert everyones interests yet we tolerate you and you ignore everything nice I say about you like how Ive MULTIPLE TIMES told ppl not to ban you


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:01:31
edit_date: 2022-03-07 19:03:26
content:
  I've had several positive conversations here. You're choosing not to look at them. 
  I will continue calling out bad behavior, as this being Karel's chat he needs to be held accountable. 
  If I see you getting wrongly banned I would also speak up about it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:04:33
content:
  What are you doing here khosumi? You’ve openly been sarcastic to people losing money through ncr, saying you hope everyone enjoys losing money… what are you doing here


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:08:36
content:
  it was when the discord first went mental after the first announcement, I’ve remembered it  because I always thought you were a clown since then


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:12:51
content:
  So anyway, yes I agree that the moderation could have been better. As I said, I'm sorry for my past behavior but I'm not here to disturb. I simply wish to be able to ask Karel questions as this is the only place he will talk


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:14:01
content:
  i've seen a lot more extremely overt rudeness from crypto fans than from furries, but i don't think crypto fans should have to own the rudest crypto fans or furries should have to own the rudest furries


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:14:24
content:
  ... like, every time i've seen death threats it's been from crypto fans. i've seen a lot of crypto fans just all caps trying to shout people out of the conversation


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:14:58
content:
  i've also seen a lot of crypto fans try to argue for a blanket license for bad behavior because they're so upset, which tells me that the specific people who are doing that plan to literally do more of that


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:15:17
content:
  i think orc's behavior is literally average and also orc is correct that a lot of people are just here to take screenshots and mock


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:15:47
content:
  Screenshots or not, it's being archived automatically so even if no one takes screens it'll still be logged so it's really a moot issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:16:10
content:
  yeah but like to be clear, you are here (and to some extent i am here) specifically with the goal of going in a second venue and making fun of the people in this first venue


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:16:28
content:
  you, like a lot of people, are likely going to be way more hostile to them in the second venue than you feel you can get away with in this venue


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:16:52
content:
  i mean, i've seen you in the channel on the neos discord where screenshots of people here are reposted and mocked


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:17:08
content:
  Jesus 😂 you are not sorry. I don’t care if you are here or not, but don’t take the piss out of people here


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:17:39
content:
  saying you are sorry is a direct pisstake lmao after being the biggest cheerleader for getting everyone to lose money


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:18:03
content:
  (i mean you [khosumi] weren't toxic on discord, i have no idea if you were toxic here because i don't watch this channel very closely)


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:20:48
content:
  i think the unsaid truth about alot of those people are that theyre from countries where there's less education and their english is not as good.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:21:32
content:
  i think this is probably part of it? but like i work with a lot of ESL people, i do not think ESL turns people into rude assholes


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:22:07
content:
  i think it has way more to do with how crypto spaces are totally powered by hype — and people who are very influenced by marketing are usually pretty bad at replicating the things they are receptive to, so it comes off like people are trying to move the needle by force of will


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:22:47
content:
  i used to hang out on the discord server of an evangelical online church for laughs basically and it feels incredibly similar


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:25:49
content:
  but when they go into the discord it starts to look like a highschool lunchroom where ppl line up to goad the ESL person who probably is of lower intellect and prolly has never met a furry before and prolly has just lost a bunch of money


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:26:08
content:
  I feel like some people just want to bicker all day. If you want to have arguments, take them to DMs. We are here to discuss NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:26:33
content:
  yeah that has absolutely happened a few times. i feel weird about it because like, often you have an angry, fairly unpleasant person instigating a fight on discord and everyone kind of justifiedly piles on, but it gets  _really_ excessive


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:26:53
content:
  (i can't tell if reactant is signaling this is off-topic, i'll get off it if so and let someone else have the last word!)


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:28:14
content:
  oh ok! then i'll add that like, yeah, i think a lot of people will pile onto someone literally because they seem unpleasant and like they can't defend themselves


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 19:28:42
edit_date: 2022-03-07 19:29:15
content:
  i am guilty of occasionally making fun of unpleasant people who lost their money but i usually try to be more pro-victim than that. like yeah some people who lose their shirts are gonna be unpleasant, it's still fucked up that they lost their shirts


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:07:08
content:
  i think people who think this stuff wouldn't happen in a professional setting would be a little surprised about what kind of stuff happens in a professional setting


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:07:31
content:
  like i dunno, periodically anyone with over ten million dollars says "well, i've decided i'm God" or something


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:13:08
content:
  i saw you post some of your concerns earlier and agreed with you fwiw. i also agree with your current concerns in that i think that probably what will happen is that karel will refuse to relinquish control of neos, froox will refuse to work with karel, and the platform will stop existing


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:14:06
content:
  i don't think that will happen, basically because i think karel has enough time and money to sue the pants off everyone


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:16:15
content:
  like at this point it's like every day it's some version of "my lawyers" this and "my lawyers" that. like once you've decided to sue your employees, you've lost


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:17:34
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:17:43
content:
  like a lot of karel's public communication is based on the idea that a good relationship with karel and froox is imminent but karel's literally publicly plotting to ruin him


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:20:08
content:
  i'm a lot more sympathetic to froox on this one but yes, both sides know what they would have to offer to make the other side happy, potentially salvaging the project, and both sides have rejected that


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:20:20
content:
  (i ultimately think giving froox what he wants would save the project and giving karel what he wants would destroy it)


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:21:38
content:
  i think karel is obviously incompetent which is how this happened, and froox is obviously highly competent which is how we got to the point that karel was able to squander $60,000,000


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:22:33
content:
  a lot of these problems came from communication issues, the lack of clarity never pushed a platform up


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:23:38
content:
  yeah, so i think that one of the problems here is that people are responding to an information deficit with speculation


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:24:18
content:
  the impression i get from hearing both sides' stories is that karel has a habit of making decisions for people behind their back, then saying "it's so easy, i already did it for you, sign it"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:24:49
content:
  i have worked with people like this, usually people who made it to management by making big promises. it bites them in the ass.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:25:52
content:
  i mean my main point is just that you don't say "well i didn't ask you because i thought you'd say no"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:26:18
content:
  I feel like NCR was integrated too quickly. Had the token have the marketplace ready *first* and then introduce it, that would have made more sense. but right now it's a coin with the future hope that the future marketplace will have a good future economy


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:26:22
content:
  The bull run certainly came much sooner than expected because of a third party coinmarketcap listing and Facebook/Meta craze


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:27:22
content:
  karel: haven't the devs (including devs who supported NCR) specifically said they did not intend to pursue NFTs due to (1) implementation difficulties (2) incompatibility with infinitely purchasable objects (3) it making the whole existing transaction system irrelevant


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:28:19
content:
  Me too but we had to save the company somehow. We were totally out of money, even rent for the next week and being able to pay Azure was quite a problem.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:28:24
content:
  i seem to remember this being a conversation that was had before and everyone but you reaching the opposite conclusion


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:29:07
content:
  I completely understand that position, and I'm sorry it turned out the way it did. I hope a solution can be found, I really do love the platform that's been created, and I would hate for people to leave this project with a burned hole in their pockets


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:30:15
content:
  To be frank the main difficulty is that We still don’t have the licensing system to track ownerships. NFTs being not that sustainable in terms of co2 and ewaste footprint is somewhat problematic too to me personally.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:30:32
content:
  i mean ok but on a basic level, why are you making promises for the devs when the entire team has said they don't want to work with you


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:31:46
content:
  i am less invested with nfts here and more that this seems like a fairly blatant case of karel making promises for people who aren't in the room


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:31:46
content:
  I personally do not agree with NFTs, I think the purposes they aim to solve don't fit quite well with the gaming ecosystem


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:32:16
content:
  I think NFT may not make sense for things that are “infinitly repurchasable” basically meaning funguble. Which is the opposite of what are NFTs supposed to do. But i tink there is no reason why that couldn’t be handled by the Neos Licensing Sustem alone and only make NFT records optional.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:32:24
content:
  like, literally the reason karel's last buybackwall depleted in an hour is that karel made a promise for someone who immediately said "actually, i intend to do the opposite"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:35:10
content:
  Karel, do you think it's fair to say that the NFT implementation was a solution in search of a problem? I might be missing something


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:38:09
content:
  from my perspective it is whack, when your devs have a history of saying "we don't intend to pursue NFTs" and your devs have recently said "we will not work with you at all," to say "yeah, i'm going to get the devs working on NFTs, it's going to be great"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:39:02
content:
  i would have a very hard time saying that and feeling sincere because it would seem so obvious to me that it wasn't going to happen


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:40:29
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:41:08
content:
  So Neos doesn’t have NFT integration yet, but in generall for example the ETH NFTs I feel like have some very good use cases. For example Uniswap V3 liquidity pools are NFTs. Not sure about the art stuff though, bit on a fence there. But I get why some people like having a record on the blockchain, why not.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:41:43
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:41:56
content:
  i mean predictably this conversation has been derailed into a verbose dissection of the technical merits of nfts instead of the apparent grift that is happening in this actual channel


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:42:41
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:42:53
content:
  (i only asked the original question to see if karel was reading my messages at all — i basically expected him to ignore anything that made him look bad)


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:44:05
content:
  Not reading all messages in here but enjoying popping in from time to time. Thank you so much everyone for a nice civil, balanced discussion. 🙏


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:45:07
content:
  And you also have to keep in consideration that the team is very tightly knit, I don't think they would allow themselves to be separated and continue as if nothing happened


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:45:29
content:
  i mean from my pov you respond to technical questions by saying "oh yeah, here's how i'm gonna pump ncr" but when someone points out "you made a public statement that turned out to be a lie, it tanked NCR again," you wait for the conversation to move on and then post about Uniswap


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:46:53
content:
  Haha the Whitepaper 1.06 is not a lie, it is really what we are going with. What tanked NCR was Frooxes statement after that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:47:17
content:
  it's not just the signature — you spent days before representing that you like, almost had an agreement with froox and tings were going to be great


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:47:35
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:48:23
content:
  immediately after, the entire dev team said they didn't get to see it until a few hours before you posted it, and they never wanted to work with you again


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:47:42
content:
  Yeah I know those guys are Frooxes friends first and foremost. A different dev team will have to work on things like the optional NFT support.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:49:11
content:
  Don’t see a reason to. Will provide and actually have offered to provide funding so they can independently work on the Neos Engine. No reason  one dev team has to do everything.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:50:00
content:
  i think my question is actually mistaken, given that they've said they don't want to work with you — it sounds to me like effectively they have quit


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:51:33
content:
  yeah ok so the fundamental problem imho is that karel is making promises on behalf of an old team that wants nothing to do with him and a new team that doesn't exist


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:52:44
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:13:42
content:
  Well they are not Neos shareholders or founders. There has to be a hierarchy in a company. An egalitarian company would never get anywhere as all decisions will be blocked by people who think otherwise.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:53:54
edit_date: 2022-03-07 21:54:14
content:
  it sounds to me like the current team literally will not work with you at all, based on the posts they made


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:56:25
content:
  Totally I’m trying to find out whether  they will be willing to work on Neos independently or just not at all. Certainly not imagining we will work together directly. I’m not naive and frankly don’t want to work with someone who tanked ncr so hard and is attacking my every decision. Probably not a mendable relationship.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:58:00
content:
  that's what some of them said, although geenz later revised his claim to "signed an NDA, but not a contract that assigned ownership of the code" which has my eyebrow up


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 21:59:30
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:02:24
content:
  Froox has made it clear that their responsibilities are segregated and he doesn’t need a nod from karel on development too. So I really don’t see the problem with unilaterally releasing a crypto white paper, that is a mere incremental update on the previous one. The dev team just want karel out, no specific justification needed. However I do think karel painted too rosy a picture in regards to joint statement, which made ppl continue to invest. That was misleading, and problematic.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:01:00
content:
  i guess this is tangential, but i've run into several people who signed inventions agreements who had pretty rosy ideas about what the inventions agreements said they could do


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:01:07
content:
  It’s not like the coders own all of Neos IP, it would be a two way stalemate with Neos having a better way out. There are also some arguments to be made regarding an implicit license they have provided by knowing how and by what entity their work was used and being clearly volunteers. A series of very complex lawsuits. I hope we will reach an agreement instead but the company has to be prepared for any eventuality.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:01:18
content:
  and then i've run into other people at the same employers with the same agreements who opined that they had much less freedom, and that made more sense


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:02:04
content:
  this certainly sounds like "well, if they don't do what i want, i'll replace them all or burn the product down!"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:03:42
content:
  I still don't understand what makes neos and NCR completely unseparetable. I firmly believe that NCR could grow as a side project, with much less, see free, transaction fees so you would still have an advantage over any other payment option


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:04:01
content:
  i guess from my perspective, if we say "ok, what if karel's not the asshole" — like if we pretended this was a parallel situation where karel's a furry and all the devs are bitcoiners and they boycott it because karel _won't_ do crypto — in that world i would expect the internet to say "... yeah, karel probably wins that legal dispute!"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:04:12
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:04:28
content:
  Well I still do want to reach an agreement. I have sent the memorandum and whitepaper to Froox in the same email so thats probably why I had those two actions somewhat interconnected in my thoughts.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:04:24
content:
  and i just think the verdict would be the same in both cases, even though the party i side with probably is different in case 1 than in case 2


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:05:13
content:
  like based on what we know karel seems like kind of a dick, but i'm not convinced karel is kind of a dick in any ways that are legally relevant, and we can construct cases where the person who looks like a dick is froox and in that case we would expect the same outcome


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:06:02
content:
  (apologies for saying "suppose karel was a furry" btw — i am sure karel will recover! in general i've been pretty rude, i hope i haven't been too rude.)


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:06:19
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:06:40
content:
  Certainly not replace, I would like them to continue working. Just adding more teams that can work on the things they cant or don’t have the time for. As is in any larger company. It has to happen sooner or later anyways.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:09:15
content:
  i'm just saying that like, i think the legal argument the team is making would seem highly dubious if i wasn't already inclined to side with them. i'm not talking about who's right or the future of the project


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:09:37
content:
  like if i knew nothing about the parties but their roles and contracts, i would probably expect the court to side with karel on the ip issues


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:12:56
content:
  indeed, if the team have not signed any contract that hands over the IP, they have a very solid case to protect it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:14:02
content:
  i think karel's argument is that if karel told them  "write this thing for Neos and we'll use it" and they wrote it, that implicitly licenses Neos to use it


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:14:33
content:
  i am not actually sure if this is true, but i think a lot of informal employment would be really really complicated if karel was wrong


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:15:30
content:
  i bopped a lawfriend but they didn't opine, which could mean they don't know or could mean they don't really care


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:16:00
content:
  Without legally binding equity in Solirax, the only two people that the court will acknowledge as owners of Neos is Karel and Tomas with individual 42.5% stakes. At the end of the day if it does go to court the most likely scenario is a perpetual rights license granted to both parties over the codebase with a liquidation and split of non-IP assets.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:16:14
content:
  It came to light in the discord that Froox got locked in the house when he was trying to move out. If it's not too personal of a topic, what happened there?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:18:29
content:
  Lol yeah we have changed locks about 3 years ago but there was always a key in them on the inside. As Froox never went out he didn’t know the locks have changed.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:18:31
content:
  you know, i wouldn't be surprised! i'm gonna grill my buddy on this before i spread rumors any further


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:18:47
content:
  If it goes to court froox is in a bad place, his statements did a lot of damages to the company assets and reputation, at this point it is sabotage


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:19:43
content:
  No he doesn’t want to go out at all, sometimes for a trip with prossessor Klan who came a lot for visits or to a doctor but I had to take him always.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:19:49
content:
  btw, let's not attack froox on his habits of going out. I personally am an introvert and I can fully relate to not going outside for long periods of time


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:20:38
content:
  It's still very uneasy to hear about that having happened, being locked in, even if it seems to have been by accident. Something like that shouldn't happen


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:21:44
content:
  That sounds a lot more reasonable lol. I kept hearing people say he was locked in and forced to code. But that take seemed a little excessive.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:22:02
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:22:16
content:
  It’s his own thing and even though I have advised for him to go out at least sometimes and sleep more regularly he is his own legally competent person.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:22:09
content:
  i mean i heard karel broke both his legs and superglued his hands to the keyboard, but it's probably just a rumor


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:25:07
content:
  Totally that was an unfortunate accident. Would not happen if I knew he wants to leave that day or at all. Going out was not something he did ever so I was not too careful about leaving the key there at all times. Sometimes I took it with me when going out and left it in a jacket or something. I did let him out after he knocked at my apartment doors though.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:32:17
content:
  When I get accused publicly I have to explain myself and the situation, now way around that. That is something the person making the accusations has to take in consideration.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:33:29
content:
  I don’t think I can come to an agreement with Probable or another friend of Froox without an agreement with Froox. That has to come first.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:35:36
content:
  The reason why Froox didn’t know that the locks did change a long time ago is important and not usual at all. Usually a person knows when there is such change in the place they live at. As they go at least for shopping or something.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:35:56
content:
  Karel you should do a little stop to the discord, a bunch of lovely things being said about you as usual 🤫😝


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:41:01
content:
  I actually think that a personal meeting with a mediator who does this for a living could he very helpful.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:46:22
content:
  Their contributions are tiny if at all for some of the individuals. Not really that relevant. They make it seem like a bigger deal because that would be advantageous.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:47:29
content:
  That's why these kind of situations require a mediator or atleast someone to animates the negociations. I am sure it would help a lot


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:48:51
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:49:57
content:
  Mediator will help a lot. A lof of the times the parties presume a lot about the intentions and needs of the other one and then are surprised that there was a quite simple solution for everyone to be happy all along. Super useful.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:53:57
edit_date: 2022-03-07 22:56:38
content:
  Just wanna make it clear: you’re not minimizing their contribution, but just saying if it comes to the worst case scenario, their codes would be very easy to be replaced after the fact. Correct?


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:54:46
content:
  Yeah, I’m very grateful for their awesome work. Just not that relevant for the IP dispute if it comes to that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 22:58:29
content:
  Hopefully we can keep both the existing ones for Neos core and new for other things to help with other aspects. But things not always go according to the best scenario. Have to be ready for all scenarios. 👍


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:01:40
content:
  yeah i think at this point karel is saying "well, i'm not going to close the door if they want to do stuff, but i am also not going to give up on literally any of my current plans"


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:01:53
content:
  Unfortunately, the current developers are opposed to cryptocurrency and see it as the reason for the loss of the project. I do not expect the best from them


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:02:16
content:
  which is a position that makes sense if you think of the team as disposable? i think that is not a good assumption to make


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:02:36
content:
  The code is quite modular, well written. No reason for multiple teams not to work on it. Will happen anyways just a matter of time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:04:42
edit_date: 2022-03-07 23:05:20
content:
  I get their feeling. Beging open minded is really valuable  long term. Every possibility of growth should be considered !


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:05:46
content:
  Yeah I can’t just agree to things that are unacceptsble to the company  because of some threat. I view their work as very valuable and am looking for and offering ways how they can continue doing it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:08:04
edit_date: 2022-03-07 23:08:19
content:
  I have a good feeling place for the project to grow, but the project should not be limited to specific developers, there are many developers who would like to participate if the project is successful and promising


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:12:41
content:
  And I didn't say gas lighting about not answering my question, I was mentioning to not gas light in response to this


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:16:45
edit_date: 2022-03-07 23:17:13
content:
  For the future of NCR, it would be hard to trust the current dev team on the basis that the initial announcement was supposedly
  Not to do with NCR and now the newest one has tried to sideline it. New devs, open to crypto, to work alongside existing ones would be needed to gain confidence back


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:19:42
content:
  Prime might be an amazing developer, but someone who tries to gaslight me, telling us to stop speculating, while trying to distract the convo talking about cheese slices, when he is actually putting his name to something that is about to wipe the value off all of our NCR…. I mean…. I just don’t know


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:21:15
content:
  but that’s not to single him out, the point of what I’m saying is, if there were some pro crypto devs then jt would be more reassuring 😂


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:22:01
content:
  I would like to note for fairness sake that they aren't anti crypto either. Mostly neutral, I'm not sure if any of them are Pro crypto but I can ask


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:25:26
content:
  I can’t speak for them but I just base my opinion on their actions…still, a fresh set of eyes that don’t have any relationships with community members or existing devs. And that’s not a dig at you


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:26:24
content:
  More than an outsider mediator you should talk with someone very respected in both the vr and crypto/nft space..he could help both of u in ur decisions and looking about the best solutions for Neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:30:53
content:
  it’s not so much the pro or anti crypto but more the sidelining ncr. Since October/November, from what I gathered , NCR would incur no fees for transacting inside Neos, but you could add other methods (crypto or non crypto) that would incur a fee. 
  I didn’t hear anyone disagree with this, ever.


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:32:08
content:
  People mostly seem to agree that they're rather neutral about crypto overall. Some were curious about how it would turn out but in general, not quite interested


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:33:53
edit_date: 2022-03-07 23:34:20
content:
  There are those opposing crypto, because it is bad for the environment. Which actually isn't a property of the crypto itself, but the property of PoW


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:34:32
content:
  Yeah they're mostly worried about the environmental changes. The last thing we need is a more fucked up planet right now


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:34:41
content:
  Sorry if I misunderstood but I read froox’s announcement like he wanted PayPal or some kind of stablecoin to be known as THE preferred payment method


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:36:56
content:
  The thing that would happen the way I see that. There would be Neos with no possibly way to implement a Marketplace and then there would be that 3rd party addon that would allow a Marketplace with NCR as currency to pay


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:37:24
content:
  See, Neos was kinda odd as other projects could have been able to add their own cryptos in, you could have used stablecoins, paid with PayPal, whatever


type: message
date: 2022-03-07 23:42:37
content:
  It’s all quite vague I guess.
  From someone who has less than 10 hours inside Neos in vr and hasn’t interacted with the community, interpreting some of the announcements can be tricky


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:03:20
content:
  cto's approach directly caused investors to lose all their money, and the ceo's responsibility was that he did not handle the internal relationship of the team well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:11:02
content:
  This is disingenuous. Froox announcement was after the release of a whitepaper with his signature on it without having agreed to it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:15:52
content:
  Your argument is in bad faith, it is easy to tell you have lost money and are arguing from the perspective he doesn't care about you, but the reality is that his issues with karel is what lead to this happening


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:17:14
content:
  This message would not have gone out if (allegedly) Karel would respect the request to stop publishing documents or anything requiring consent from their part in their name, without their consent


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:22:54
content:
  Karel, has running the business side of neos been your full time gig for a while now? Or has it been more of a side thing with the hopes of making it your primary focus once it took off?


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:24:21
content:
  Yes, this is the ceo's fault, and he has apologized. However, cto did not solve this issue through rational communication with the ceo directly, and directly declared it. This is a great damage for investors


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:31:20
content:
  I can confirm to you that Froox does not know anything about crypto, and only really focuses on coding the game. Speaking with investors is not part of his "job"


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:31:44
content:
  He does not host office hours either, like most of the other devs, we mostly only hear from them through updates


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:32:52
content:
  to clarify, (in case you don't know) office hours are 30 minute sessions where we get to chat with the devs about the progress of the game, general questions about the wiki and more


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:38:15
content:
  Doctrine of implied license isn't based on a verbal contract (though I should note that verbal contracts ARE enforceable, just much more difficult to prove and establish what terms are). Implied license is basically an equitable remedy by courts that grants one party the rights to use/modify an otherwise copyright protected work based on the facts of the case. 

  Relatively novel concept in the context of software/code, but I can definitely see an argument to be made for an implied license for Neos the company. The other devs wrote the code specifically for Neos, signed NDAs with Neos, knew that the code would be used and distributed by Neos, and knew that the long-term goal was to open-source the code. 

  But this is a VERY messy legal argument that is highly fact-dependent... meaning document discovery, depositions, and ultimately trial if the parties can't reach a settlement before then. And then the resolution is up to a jury which...I'll just say can be HIGHLY unpredictable.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:41:14
content:
  Yes, sorry meant Solirax. But that's my point - the company may not "own" all parts of the Neos code, but an implied license that it can use/modify such code is basically all that Karel needs - effectively the same as ownership


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:44:13
content:
  That's been clear all along. I think Froox and dev team mistakenly believed they held all the cards and could simply push Karel and NCR out without lasting consequences. Not true at all...


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:45:39
content:
  I should also note that NDAs in the IP context often contain assignments of rights... if I were dev team, I'd make sure I read them very carefully and not just relying on the fact that a document is titled only an "NDA"


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:54:21
content:
  I have been told by geenz they have specifically not signed anything that would give over any of their rights to the code they wrote


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:55:07
content:
  Even if solirax claims everything they legally can from froox, there will be the issue of separating all the volonteer code which makes the whole of neos works.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:56:06
content:
  A judicial declaration that Solirax is entitled to implied license as to all volunteer code would obviate the need to disentangle such code


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 00:58:04
content:
  There is an image of karel agreeing with someone else saying that froox would get shot in a different country


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:01:14
content:
  this is the fact.The key point of this sentence is the second half, which has caused great losses to many people.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:03:54
content:
  An implied license would mean that Solirax has the legal right to use and modify the volunteer code. It wouldn't "gain" ownership of the code, but if it can use/modify, then you don't really need the ownership


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:04:55
content:
  There is an analogous US case where company hired independent contractor who developed parts of the code, but didn't assign any rights. Court found that the original company had an implied license to use that contractor's code for their software.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:05:20
content:
  They themselves would retain ownership of the code and could do whatever they want with it. But they couldn't prevent Solirax from doing the same.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:06:00
content:
  They could go rebrand themselves as a different engine, and work on that, while solirax continues under the neos name and works on their version as well


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:06:49
content:
  I think it is very important to know they would each have their version of the code to continue working on


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:07:55
content:
  Some claim to have been paid through contracts, but far and few between, and never as an actual employment under Solirax


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:08:29
content:
  Implied license doctrine is completely irrelevant to employment contract or NDA - it is a non-contractual judicial remedy


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 01:11:43
content:
  https://www.loeb.com/~/media/Files/Publications/2009/07/Numbers%20Licensing%20LLC%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20Inc/Files/Numbers%20Licensing%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20ED%20Wash%20July%202009/FileAttachment/Numbers%20Licensing%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20ED%20Wash%20July%202009.pdf


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 04:54:56
content:
  I asked them whether They are willing to give their rights to Froox, they said Yes for now.
  But I bet they wont give any


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 04:59:00
content:
  Actually even worse will happen when Froox is in charge of the company. He might just get brainwashed by their team eventually.
  Imagine what will happen to Froox if their "team" backstep him oneday with IP.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:12:04
content:
  They wanted to kick Karel out since last year June, planned super clever.
  Waited until right time to come and tried to make Karel look bad, which was quite impressive.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:12:48
edit_date: 2022-03-08 07:39:29
content:
  No matter your position on this drama, no reasonable person should still think that this is a bunch of innocent idealists standing up to a corporate evil.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:14:28
content:
  Froox is just puppet or method of justification for their team. The real threat is coming from team, making wierd rumors to spread.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:17:17
content:
  Nice job for the dev team, company is now yours "volunteers!"

  lesson learned: never trust someone who doesnt require anything. Be suspecious


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:35:31
content:
  When all they say is “pay is not the problem” and refuse to give you their reasoning, there’s no reasoning. They want sole control of neos. They said as much.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:47:04
content:
  I agree they want sole control, I just don't think it was some masterminded plan. They wanted Karel and NCR out and went on work strike thinking they held all ownership to the crown jewels. The precipitating event, if I had to guess, was the unforeseen surge in NCR and corresponding rise in control Karel had over future development and direction over Neos. And some other interpersonal shit between Karel and Froox that only they can really know. Simple as that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:53:26
content:
  The thing is you are looking for a way too complex reason of why things are happening, the team including froox are dissatisfied with how things have going and are now putting their foot down essentially because they do not think things can or should go on like this.

  This isnt due to some malicious preplanned takeover or whatever this is simply how things turned out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:55:05
content:
  Like Prime isnt some evil Regicidal mastermind trying to take over the company. Hes just a guy really into cheese who enjoys contributing to this project


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:56:12
content:
  Yeah but the thought of anyone on the team "turning on froox" is pretty ffar fetched, not to mention that would fly really badly in the community.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:57:20
content:
  They are not attacking Karel, but Neos itself, claiming its their IP and will remove anytime they want


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 05:58:32
content:
  They are willing to give IP to Froox at least, which needs to be done immediately. Cus Froox owns this company so thats no matter.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:00:28
content:
  cus If Froox gets IP, dev should get their IP also, which is possible threatening.
  I believe Froox should give most of the IP to Solirax, but he will not and claim for his. This will turn out to be disaster for "Froox's little company".


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:01:38
content:
  Yeah for the time being. He'll soon turn on Froox. The company have messed up their reputation already


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:02:06
content:
  Karel is trying to make them work independently themselves for Neos development, which seems quite reasonable point in middle.
  But if that means Karel to get rid of "original Neos", that will be planned takeover.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:03:53
content:
  The same grievance the rest of the team has most likely which is the reason this entire situation is going on?


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:06:13
content:
  There is some kind of justification that dev team claim, which makes sense also.

  But they didnt want to work with Karel few months before, and they want Karel to leave because of what they call "dignity".

  I can understand that Karel should correct some stuffs for dev team, but what they are requiring is Karel fired from Neos. Ridiculous negotiation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:07:22
content:
  dignity just doesnt make everything what they do "rightful thing to do"
  IRW, things need to be compromised.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:09:27
content:
  There's times where compromise isnt really an option where you have to stick through and fight for what you believe in, I can understand that.

  It may be rough currently but once this is all over things should be getting back to normal


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:10:05
content:
  If it was felony, I will stand by 100% dev team. But dignity harmed isnt something illegal, getting rid out of their CEO cus they dont want to work is ridiculous situation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:14:10
content:
  Yes they dont want to work with Karel because of what he has done/been doing. For a full statement on what exactly that was we will most liikely need to wait AFTER the legal battle since any thoughtless talk now can be detrimental to your legal defense


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:14:49
content:
  You usually dont wanna just go spouting off about a legal dispute you are engaged in unless you want the person who is representing you to get a heart attack


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:15:16
content:
  Great, I think he has to go. In the beginning we had a lot of unrealistic ideas in doing nft. Making money is not the only purpose, but making money or not as a criterion for the success or failure of a project is the easiest and effective way to stop getting lost in the process.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:17:35
content:
  I'm pretty sure the entire team mirrors that sentiment of not wanting to work with Karel, on the chance that Karel was to somehow remove froox and retain ownership of the full code. Karel would be left with basically no one that has any experience working on the project


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:22:48
content:
  Ownership of code is another problem, but I believe Solirax having is much more longterm beneficial.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:25:42
content:
  Honestly, The dev team being independent and karel having full code ownership isn't really a middle point


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:34:29
content:
  However i think the future would be perfectly fine even if NCR was a third party coin that Karel maintains himself with his team detached from Neos development


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:35:33
content:
  You meaning what Froox suggested?
  1. Karel maintains only NCR
  2. NCR is 3rd party coin

  This is bullshit


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:37:16
content:
  Yes but when seperation is brought up all that is said in response is "karel doesnt want it" which, yeah, i know, but that doenst mean its not an option


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:38:20
content:
  I haven't seen any posts that simplify the issue like that... and I've written some fairly lengthy posts analyzing the basic legal issues at play


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:39:16
content:
  in fact he's acknowledged there are IP arguments for both sides and will be difficult legal battle to figure it out


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:39:36
content:
  I mean you can look slightly up to the person im responding to who said "not an option" like the whole threads there for you to look at


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:40:12
content:
  um.. so if Neos is collectual IP which is owned by 8 people... lets see how that will turn out in near future


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:40:31
content:
  Yes, I saw. I think he meant that separation wasn't a realistic option. Many folks in the discord have floated that as if it were a real offer being made by Froox - and not as if it would completely fuck over Karel and NCR holders.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:44:02
content:
  There is a possibility of NCR ending up seperate, Yes that would be a hard battle but Karel could end up losing the ability to stop such a seperation


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:45:34
content:
  No one is denying that as a possibility. But that would effectively be the end of NCR. Discord folks need to stop acting like it's some olive branch or anything remotely close to being a fair offer.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:46:43
content:
  Rothenberg is defunct, shares are now held by another entity. My guess is their interests are more aligned with Karel.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:48:41
content:
  this is my guess too. But I really dont want Froox to get discouraged. That would be bigger disaster for Neos itself.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:50:45
content:
  Honestly even if things happen in Karels favor i think it would be more likely that this would end up causing the start of a new Project that competes with neos rather than for people to just accept this outcome


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:55:17
content:
  What I see nontheless that Karel did miscommunication and some others,

  is that Karel is at least suggesting that both party can exist.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:56:47
content:
  But dev team is suggesting to get everything just because their "dignity" got damaged, which will lead to disaster nego.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:58:42
content:
  dignity or whatever.. if Karel is to be accused, then do it. If not that bad, always compromise is possible.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 06:59:16
content:
  See this highly depends.
  Watered down to "peace or fight" one may think peace is the correct option however you have to consider what that peace entails.

  I do believe there is battles to die for.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 07:01:50
content:
  My boss treated me like shit, I'll punish this guy whatever it costs. Well at least, its the boss who loses money not me!! shame!


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 07:02:55
content:
  Honestly, the core issue of our society is that living is a privilege, food is a privilege and shelter is a privilege.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 07:15:05
content:
  or... more conspiracy.
  Dev actually wants Solirax go bankrupt. Cus they think Neos IP is theirs, now noone can stop them.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 08:32:32
content:
  Yes, he did wrong. Everyone does mistake. He tried to hire them by US entity, but this is being denied by the dev team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 08:41:41
content:
  That's because full-time hiring is not possible without US entity for some reason.
  He now realized the need of US entity and trying to fix things.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:10:59
content:
  I can see how its annoying to sit on the sidelines and wait for the legal stuff to be done to have more explanations but it would be detrimental to divulge too much information publically.

  It's why froox has only been making announcements when necesary.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:15:24
content:
  The teams been pretty calm in discord, we had Geenz basically talking about his own experiences yesterday.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:17:35
content:
  when Karel couldnt respond to the rumors, it was like
  "evil Karel who abuses his roommate and never pays all the nev team" opinion which still is there in discord


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:17:46
content:
  I dont really think it's unfair, Karel should have done the exact same thign and consulted with a legal team before making staements constanly


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:19:03
content:
  he should, but what i say unfair is that there was too much "anti-Karel" making ridiculous rumors.
  There wasnt any for Froox, and of course Froox didnt do something wrong.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:30:03
edit_date: 2022-03-08 11:35:19
content:
  But even though Karel wants to do anything to reconcile or scale up neos, all will be denied by Froox.

  For instance, 
  1. If Karel publishes new website -> Froox announces he opposes
  2. If Karel publishes staking -> Froox announces he opposes
  3. If Karel wants to hire new employees -> Froox announces he opposes

  Im quite sure this battle is on long journey, and dont care the volunteers striking. But There's some job for CEO who dont strike


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:40:15
edit_date: 2022-03-08 10:04:00
content:
  so its not just karel buybacks, and those buybacks woulsbt be so devestating if the team wasnt sabotaging themselves


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 09:58:06
edit_date: 2022-03-08 10:16:56
content:
  He’s got a good point. Karel should really make an official statement as the CEO and tell people what’s happening. Not everyone comes here and skims through everyone of his message and people shouldn’t have to.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 11:17:01
edit_date: 2022-03-08 12:26:15
content:
  Karel also has more than 16 million ncr, and more than 40% of the tokens in circulation are in his wallet.
  If all the problems of the team are solved and the currency price can rise back to the past, he will be the one who benefits the most! Now the currency price is 0.3 USD, if it reaches 9 USD, it is 30 times the increase.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 11:18:57
content:
  If you believe Karel can solve the problem, you will get a huge profit if you buy it now. Of course, if Karel doesn't solve the problem, your investment will become 0


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 11:24:36
content:
  No one will be using NCR tokens as the currency in the marketplace. It takes time. And we don’t know how long it will be


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 11:25:28
content:
  I suggest Karel keeps the 1600 ETH. It’s real money. And perhaps sells the 42.5% share and start another metaverse project


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 12:12:09
content:
  That should be a huge incentive for both sides to settle this mess. Get to the pain points and offer alternatives that can be accepted by both parties. The potential is huge and thinking outside the box might be required. 

  Just make it work or both sides will regret this as their biggest mistake ever.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 12:37:40
content:
  I'll probably get banned but has anyone looked into these wallets that sold huge amounts of NCR for USDC minutes before Karel pulled liquidity around $8?

  Example: https://etherscan.io/address/0x8ce566d0bf9ddb37dcc136ce49823b69ee63bf0a


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 12:42:16
content:
  I think a lot of people sold into the last liquidity wall which would mean most folks are in a profit atm


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 12:45:43
content:
  Any positive news for Karel regarding legal matters will likely be met with more fud / attempts by the team to nuke ncr price


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 12:47:22
content:
  no matter what the news id just expect volatility tbh. 
  The devs want the code, half the money, and for karel to not be able to use any of the code they contributed.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:00:19
content:
  People do have different ideas.  So leave a pure neos without ncr for those don't like crypto destroy their exprience. And karel setup a new world with crypto.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:05:08
content:
  yes too much  money cause this situation. when they have 10k eth in treasury  everyone has different ideas.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:07:18
content:
  Ok, they shall solve the things good enough, and the marketcap of ncr previous is enough for everyone have good life.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:12:33
content:
  Help karel start a ncr native metaverse bros.   Stop talking the things between karel and froox and dev team. Let them deal it privately.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:16:02
content:
  Karel run neos metaverse in a whole control, and pay the dev team properly. I think they are going to reach such a consensus.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:20:55
content:
  Lock remaining eth, sign a contract with dev team and pay them gradually. If they don't want eth, there is legal way tranfer eth to usd.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:28:20
edit_date: 2022-03-08 14:48:48
content:
  The employees of the  binance can choose to pay their salaries to use bnb token or dollars. Most of the employees who choose bnb to pay are free of wealth


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:33:46
edit_date: 2022-03-08 13:34:37
content:
  It can be divided into two parts: one part uses dollars as salary, and the other part uses ncr as incentive for employees.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:37:03
content:
  Karel keep eth for them, locked and find a legal way transfer to usd for froox and dev team.  Find some institutions invest also a way to get money pay them.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:39:28
content:
  Let them well paid but follow the dev plan as formal outsourcing process.  Let them keep legacy neos as their playgroud  and remove ncr as they like, and you can start a new metaverse.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 13:56:58
content:
  Hard folk, pay dev team well, and let them transfer code for metaverse gradually.  Karel should run a new dev team.  Of course, respect froox and current dev team, and pay them well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 14:04:10
edit_date: 2022-03-08 14:13:59
content:
  Neos is a technology-based company, but it can be seen that in key decisions, the CTO is the leader, and the CTO can make decisions that affect the market at will. As long as such a team still exists, I think it is difficult for ncr to have a chance; the sushi team is like this, ceo Was pushed out by the cto. We need a new neos, he can be called new-ncr, it doesn’t matter, in short, we need a new team, re-involve the model, introduce large, crypto capital, I believe there is a chance to stand firm in this market.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 14:04:12
content:
  neos 算是一个技术型公司，但是看得出来关键决策上，cto 主导，且cto 可以随意做出 影响市场的决定，只要这样的团队还存在，我认为ncr 很难有机会；sushi 团队就是这样，ceo被cto 排挤走了。我们需要一个新的 neos，他可以叫new-ncr，无所谓，总之需要一个新的团队，重新涉及模型，引入大的，crypto资本，相信是有机会再这个市场站稳一方的。


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 18:34:45
edit_date: 2022-03-08 18:34:59
content:
  jokes aside, this is the most broken I remember seeing discord.. has been a good 20 min now at least, unless it's planned downtime tbf


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 19:39:58
content:
  Hello everyone, I am writing an article on the NCR crypto events.  I am looking to confirm the timeline of events.  Missing info is november pretty much.  Updates stopped on nov 10th, pump got going on nov 12th so thats where I start.  Can anyone confirm dates of froox moving out, wen team decided to attempt to kick karel out, and wen team decided to remove ncr official support from the game.  thanks


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 19:46:29
content:
  ah ok thanks.  Lead Dev stopped work in november though, if we look there were updates every 2-3 days or every week in october, and before, then nov 10th last real update for the game up to now.  also going by lead dev posts on discord.  Thanks for that info, thats pretty much what I had in my tentative timeline, like early december or something


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 19:55:44
content:
  It's not the best solution to anyone, but should be better than battling in courts for year or more. These guys need to put their adult pants on and make a compromise so Neos can have a bright future


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:02:15
content:
  There was the nex case you should look into. He wanted a increase in pay, which was denied. He started acting out and threatening the project so he was fired by Karel. It seems to have been the main cause for "Karel doesn't respect us" talking point


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:06:10
content:
  Court case for something like this (at least in US) will probably take 2-3 years. 1 year for initial pleadings and document discovery, months of depositions and motions practice, and then finally trial.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:10:38
content:
  Depends on billable rates, but a couple hundred thousand to take it all the way through trial, easy (on each side)


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:10:45
content:
  Interesting.  I am from the crypto space so I follow the blockchain, dont know all the inside stories, just trying to get the big events right.  I do know from other information that I have been provided with, that some members of the team liquidated all positions around like 5-12th of december or before.  I have corroborated that with rudimentary chain analysis from early investors in ncr 3 years ago and large cummulative withdrawals from the in game eth address which would indicate the reserved ncr for team being withdrawn (what they call cdft) perhaps.


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:17:35
content:
  I have all that.  If you want to see the buybacks, simply go to uniswap, then charts tab.  neos vr usdc-ncr pool, and where you see the transactions, select add/remove liquidity.  There arent many transactions, its easy to see when Karel added USDC to the pool.  Seems there was only one other person providing significant liquidity other than Karel the whole time


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:17:46
content:
  Thank you, so by the time legal battle would be over, Metaverse space could look totally different and Neos could be the one years behind others


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:28:46
content:
  Possibly. Not technical enough myself to know the potential pace of development by competitors or how much lead Neos really has


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 20:54:28
content:
  to be fair, neosVR did not get any ETH funds, afaik.  The team did, by selling into the buybacks from what I have gathered.  i have the original whitepaper from wayback machine.  yes none of it was true


type: message
date: 2022-03-08 22:17:04
content:
  You and everyone else probably if it gets solved price will be pushed much higher before I even get a chance probably by insiders


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 00:36:51
content:
  Maybe we should allocate the left 1600 ETH to the developers to facilitate the development and get NCR recognized by the devs


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 06:47:21
content:
  Currently not possible however you can split it into 2 pulses or make a string such as 
  int1,int2 and then parse that


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 06:48:46
content:
  For the first method you would have the first pulse write to a register and on second pulse send the rest of your data and read the writing register


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 07:50:41
content:
  I'd bet there's a lot of Metaverse projects in the works in addition to the ones already mentioned by big companies. Someone will do the open sourced crypto Metaverse right


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 07:52:18
content:
  Unless they are an open Dynamic system enabling collaborative creation within the platform on the level of a game engine, they arent competing.

  Neos is more than just a social platform.


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 07:55:24
content:
  Writing the second variable is not necesary but if you were to add more than 2 parameters you would need to add that write anyway


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 07:57:55
content:
  For anyone who doesn't know what these funny cards are they are Logix, Neos's visual scripting language


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 08:18:47
content:
  I do development work within Neos yes, not on Neos but I work on coding projects that utilize neos as an engine.

  Am i part of the NEOS VR Team, No.
  I am however part of the Mentor Volunteers who are there to help new users learn about the platforms basics


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:02:08
content:
  You think people didn't notice the investor interest and then the unprofessional shitshow that followed? I'd be surprised if no one is taking the opportunity to just copy Neos while welcoming crypto. Yes, it will take years, but Neos might be stuck for 3 years at worst and is actively sabotaging their future


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:04:07
content:
  We'll see if any project pops up, but the message of mine you replied to was about the current times where Neos pretty much has no competition.


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:11:27
content:
  Metaverse prob won't be in mainstream use until 10 years from now, current dev team is worried most about what their small niche groups think about things they don't really understand or just hate because high GPU prices. Huge mistake in the making and it's a sad trainwreck to witness.


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:26:46
content:
  Don't have the time for it lately, I'm planning to check the MMC winners eventually but mainly I'm wishing Neos to be the Metaverse I could mainly use in future. 

  Like you, I'd also want to build apps,projects and businesses inside the Metaverse. For that reason open sourcing and crypto is important for me


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:29:08
content:
  I mean you can already do that and successfully so, the Metamovie for example is a  project that has won multiple awards with its shows inside of Neos and is now  Nominated for the Producers Guild Of America Innovation Awards


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:34:16
content:
  @mysterious_cryptid if you write to registers you can run into race conditions. Btw, when writing, you could as well write into dynamic variables and then issue a dynamic impulse instead. Would be cleaner and then also wouldn't hide the race condition possibility


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:35:56
content:
  The problem is when duplicating slots. Then dynamic variables only register after a completed frame update. Due to a bug how updates delay works, you'd have to wait two updates


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:36:46
content:
  As long as you do this in sequence as shown you shouldnt run into any issues as long as multiple people arent doing it at once, in those cases you should use localized registers imo DynVars are not really needed here


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:38:08
content:
  First class localized registers would be very helpful. Or something like tables that could be sent through a dynamic impulse would be ideal


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:39:15
content:
  I'm afraid collections are something synchronized again not actually solving this particular problem


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 09:40:10
content:
  Btw, we already have collections, they are just in disguise. You can use slots with dynamic variables to "emulate" synchronized collections


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 14:04:31
content:
  Keep an eye on the announcements of the main discord. Any progress you hear from anybody is just hearsay unless it is confirmed by froox's team


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 14:14:00
content:
  Technology is always improving, and development teams can only stay ahead if they continue to develop


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 14:16:37
content:
  Metaverse has a very good opportunity, and neos vr also has huge potential. It has the opportunity to become a world-class platform, and it will also be a business opportunity with a market value of several billions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 14:18:22
content:
  You do realize that "your working conditions dont matter because if you just shut up and work you will get more money" is a really bad take right?


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 15:24:46
content:
  Prices of crypto are determined by how their targetted market of people feels. Or by massive artificial buybacks. Either-or


type: message
date: 2022-03-09 22:56:09
content:
  I still dont understand why he thought it was a good idea to bring up Froox's mother, that was just generally gross


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 05:36:47
content:
  Hopefully he can learn from this and hire key people to take certain aspects to new highs. Delegation and having faith in a strong team is key.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 05:48:56
content:
  Karel when can we expect your second statement? We are still very much confused as to what to expect next.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:43:22
content:
  except that we know its personal. And it doesnt take any deep dive analysis to k ow that the devs hate Karel, and if there is a single dev out there who doesnt or is indifferent they would be throwing their colleague relations under the bus by saying so


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:44:04
content:
  so it doesnt really revolve aroind how karel does business it seems because they say the buybacks arent the issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:44:54
content:
  which is to say I think most parties lack emotional maturity and cant just be professional and stay out of each other's way


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:46:06
content:
  like I dont know whats at playand I can easily speculate that the amount of hate for karel is an echoing effect


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:48:59
content:
  because ive personally seen mundane drama snowball into some apocalyptic adversarial relationship thats only a few steps away from physical violence


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:51:09
content:
  Why didn't you fall out when you didn't have capital at the beginning? Everyone knows where the funds came from. They are all ncr investors.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 09:57:38
edit_date: 2022-03-10 09:57:51
content:
  it absolutely is a scam to sell something as a currency for use in a future marketplace and then cancel that marketplace, IMO


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:00:44
content:
  thats ridiculously unacceptable and the fact froox let his friends convince him that was a viable solution gives me a look in at how these ppl think


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:02:33
content:
  well theyre wrong honestly and what the kids on discord think doesnt really matter and also it changes depending on their bias


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:07:12
content:
  well it was also in the abnouncement him saying "we would no longer work on or directly suppory NCR"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:11:14
content:
  Eventually the Metaverse space will have products from biggest companies in the world and an open sourced Metaverse with crypto that mainstream of people will choose from. Waiting for the players to emerge, I'm following Neos because it might fulfill the open sourced crypto position in future


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:12:13
content:
  I'm not going to invest my time into a platform that might just die out in a few years or will forever be home to just niche groups


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:12:38
content:
  like full stop that line of thinking is ridiculous and I dun think we should eb pretending to be finance lawyers


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:14:41
content:
  I think its worth nothing that Neos devs were willing to financially ruin all the NCR holders just so they wouldnt have to set professional boundaries with their own CEO


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:16:47
content:
  I def think inside the dev xircle theyve gotten drunk off a culture of complaining about and hating karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:24:44
edit_date: 2022-03-10 10:25:44
content:
  I mean its a scam to me to sell NCR then drop support of it but all that really matters is what a judge will think


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:30:19
content:
  yeah I wonder as it seems its par the course to have protective language around a token sale like this but what matters is the actions afterwards, who is financiallly being taken advsntage of and all that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:49:49
content:
  That says a lot about the situation. It's a hostile takeover, volunteers taking over and Froox will be led by them seeing how he has done in the leading position this far


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:52:24
content:
  Furriest like to repeat the message that the guy who took care of the business side didn't write any code or interact with the players...


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:56:00
content:
  Doesn't matter what the players think. We have the other founding partner trying to kick the other out while being led by volunteers. They just want to geek around and not have anyone around who even resembles a boss. That's the image that comes out of this as details are slowly coming out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 10:57:12
content:
  Karel is a naive ceo, who leave the sourcecode untouched, and use 15k eth do buyback, instead of misappropriation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:05:34
content:
  Could it be that they are not sending in invoices as that'd mean what they worked on could be signing over IP?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:06:34
content:
  Because froox have 42% shares, that's a really big part, even he didn't get paid well, everything he did will consided as compay's property.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:10:37
content:
  As a major share holder, he have to take responsibility. Don't say something like he's child, he know nothing...


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:12:44
content:
  regardless, I'm afraid if there aren't contribution agreements, at least to transfer IP to Frooxius, there could be more trouble hiding


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:13:09
content:
  Frooxius is a major share holder of the company, and control the sourcecode and dev team, if he do some bad to the compay, of couse he broke the law.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:20:19
edit_date: 2022-03-10 11:49:05
content:
  And it also doesn't help the mistakes Karel did, probably by accident, that makes it look really bad


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:20:35
content:
  but I dont think it can be resolved simply because things have grown so toxic at this point, and froox has literally dozens telling him not to work things out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:22:10
content:
  no clue. it kinda reminds me of some falling outs ive had with friends, and at some point weve made up (even if it took years) but who knows for them?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:28:56
content:
  like I said I like to think things like that can happen like ppl bein friends again but if I had to bet.... id bet not this time


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:30:48
content:
  i predict the outcome might not be worse case but i predict some party is gonna get hurt and itll prolly be ncr holders


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:32:51
content:
  theres numerous ways im sure but id the devs dont wanna compromise or it makes the u comfy then those optikns might be off the table for froox


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:36:05
content:
  ah. well I dunno sounds lile froox might be abit like I was when younger: introvert who didnt like leaving his computer and didnt wanns be bothered by things


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:37:16
content:
  yeah sounds like a good way to ruin a friendship IF there even was one! living with ppl can breed resentment even with lovers


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:38:20
content:
  if anything the more I think about it the more I think froox isnt a bsd guy but has toxic dramahog devs next to him feeding his head with adversarial bullshit


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:38:50
content:
  not to mention his fucking obsessive community whove been living and breathing this drama for fucking months


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:41:38
content:
  and even if karel wanted to apologize having friends reinforcing shit (aka the devs) makes that impossible imo


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:42:14
content:
  like ive seen how hard it is to get woth an ex when all her friends flip the switch and demonize you lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:43:43
content:
  but it might be hard to compromise when theres a literal discord FULL of people TWENTY FOUR SEVEN comstantly calling you a dirtbag


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 11:48:36
content:
  well I dunno. I personally feel theres some paralelles at times and like I said, ive had lottsa falling outs that ive mended


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 12:53:17
content:
  Karel has already stated that using VR is difficult for him, and doesn't like to use it for long periods of time


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 12:56:06
edit_date: 2022-03-10 12:56:19
content:
  Why good news? If the current team gets replaced you won't have the original vision for Neos, just a commercial title


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 12:58:45
content:
  One of my friends evaluated neos before,   10 devs, 6 month, 1million usd, is the cost to copy one from zero codebase.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:00:58
content:
  Worst case, karel start a new team from beginning, and raise more money for dev.  And current dev team are in contiuous law suite about the current sourcecode.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:01:26
content:
  Karel , you dont need to answer to all these. Just show us with outcomes, performance, works done for sake of "Solirax".
  Communicate with us about your plans and vision.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:04:06
content:
  Karel starting a new dev team, retreave back neos domain etc.  Fire currently dev team.  Meanwhile keep law suite for the sourcecode, but it's ok they don't surrend it now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:06:06
edit_date: 2022-04-19 15:55:54
content:
  Neos is in froox's brain. All of it comes from him, the only thing Karel has done is crypto. He has no input in the game's direction, that's all froox


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:06:42
content:
  Negotiation is no way, abandon hope they will be kind.  Just start a new project from zero. Current treasury can support early hiring and when $ncr price returned, treasury will have move fund to help developing.   Just fire them and launch a law suite ask them handle the sourcecode to company.  Karel   That's the only way you can struggle.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:10:25
content:
  Not necessarily. There are conditions where at least the software can survive. Yet, the community will be split and a lot will leave the platform for something else


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:11:24
content:
  Just start a new project from zero, Karel  never have any illusion left, negotiation is waste of precious time.  Start from begining and hope will kindled.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:11:26
content:
  Sure they could keep the code, but actually carrying on with creating Neos is going to be a massive task for someone new


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:15:01
content:
  Fire them, launch law suite, take back everything and restart to make a new beginning.  You have to make your progress, NOW.  Karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:17:46
edit_date: 2022-03-10 13:18:32
content:
  Karel Even for the devs strike, keep focus on your vision.
  Keep doing your work, and it will be appreciated by everyone supporting you.
  You can do real business preparing for scale up.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:22:07
content:
  I mean it'S the same statement where he calls Froox a burden on his mothers and their partners personal lifes sooooo


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:24:18
content:
  I'm not downplaying mental illness, but if you got a mentally ill ceo it's probably not the best to keep them there


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:24:29
content:
  Yeah in that case i gotta agree even if Karel had a mental disability that is nothing bad, nor anything against his leadrship. As long as he is able to make sound decisions.

  His actions are what make him seem unfit


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:26:02
content:
  The matter still stands that this post you are quoting is the same post where he publicly shames and attacks froox


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:27:50
content:
  Yeah I dont see what he was thinking writing that part, like theres literally no spin that makes that part look good


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:28:57
edit_date: 2022-03-10 13:29:24
content:
  It honestly sounds like trying to guilt trip someone whentaking the entire part whiich is really strange in a public statement


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:34:01
content:
  I just find it odd that we were put on blast for saying these things before, but now that crypto people finally see the light it's like a huge realisation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:50:30
content:
  It is he said she said but im inclned to believe the dev team when so far everyones come out and said there were no contracts signed


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 13:51:31
content:
  Could be somewhat related to the pay issues during that time possibly also so could have been more than one thing


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:00:21
content:
  I mean it's right now about Karel calling people contractors when according to the people they were not contractors


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:02:06
content:
  No, what you're witnessing are the volunteers having a big problem when the CEO does things that actively hurt the platform


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:04:28
content:
  Hostile takeover which is actively hurting the platform as we speak, that's what it is starting to look like. Devs don't want Karel having any power over them


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:05:24
content:
  Which is good, Karel shouldn't have any power over neither Neos's development nor the production team nor any content creation or direction.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:06:48
content:
  Except karel was the instigator.  His actions led to this. This is not some "Hostile takeover", this is a team sick and tired of being abused.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:09:36
content:
  It's not "hostile". Hostile would be the team constantly slinging insults and personal attacks left and right. So far I've only seen karel throw shade, bring families into this, and diss froox every chance he gets.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:09:40
content:
  Volunteers, contractors + other founding partner trying to kick away the another founding partner to secure their own positions


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:13:55
content:
  Volunteers and contractors afraid for their job security, frooxius friends and inner circle not happy with their other boss


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:16:05
content:
  No, the volunteers just want to get back to work without having to deal with overarching company decisions that they weren't consulted on and abuse


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:16:19
content:
  Karel people want to know if you stand by your statement that most of the team were contractors in December. And if there's any clarification you can give on what you mean by contractors


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:17:09
content:
  It's not a coup, it's a dispute first of all. This is not some "takeover", these are two parties at odds. There's nothing indicating a full "takeover" here


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:18:05
content:
  Where is the dev team side at fault? They seem to mostly be just responding to bad working conditions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:18:55
content:
  They're volunteers and contractors. They have no real say in the company direction. Froox and Karel does, and Froox has only focused on coding. 

  Most of the issues are due to Froox not actually fulfilling his role more as the second leader


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:20:16
content:
  Kinda impossible with Karel having continuously made public statements. 
  Couldve definitely been handled better by him, ut i assume hyping the coin came first here and he was more worried about losing "investors" than internal backlash


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:22:11
content:
  Which the first one of was in response to karels posts.
  I understand what you mean that it takes two to tango but i do think that this was mainly brought public by Karels disregard for clearing things internally and just making continuous public statements forcing the team to state their disaproval of them


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:22:19
content:
  It is true that the first public statement came from Froox, signed be everyone except Karel, and suggested we should trust nothing Karel says because of mysterious regions. 

  Hat caused everyone to dog pile on Karel. Understandable he would want to publicly defend himself.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:22:53
edit_date: 2022-03-10 14:23:13
content:
  No, they are volunteers only. I can't speak for froox but it seems to me that there were no contracts signed by anybody else aside from NDAs (this is going based on what I've seen publicly, so ask a dev if I'm wrong). Second, froox has: Hand-picked an entire talented team, managed them, appointed coders, and made the entire engine and developed a community with their help. I wouldn't call that slacking in his responsibilities. And I would in fact say that they should get an opinion in how things were run, because the job of the CEO is to make decisions that best benefit everyone, not wantonly go off and do things without consulting the team or froox. Because then you end up making decisions that nobody wants, are not good for the company, or both.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:23:49
edit_date: 2022-03-10 14:23:59
content:
  Not to mention that the team was hand-picked by the co-founder, so their word should hold some weight regardless


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:23:53
content:
  Yeah thats what im at least factoring in, the constant messages he was sending both on discord and twitter with no clearing internally


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:24:51
content:
  Also Reactant i know you are kinda being pulled apart but i would appreciate you telling me what your info against Karel not being in neos often is?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:25:30
content:
  I read a message from the dev team going along the lines of we knew we were going to be replaced and had to act


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:26:48
content:
  i definitely know that there are invoices coming in&out from devs. The invoice they were sending had no formal contract I guess.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:27:16
content:
  Frooxius has done excellent job when it comes to technical implementation but where he has lacked is the business part and how things are handled there. Yes, obv Karel can ask opinions about his companies workers, but in the end it's up to Karel and Frooxius. Just because employees are not happy about their boss, it isn't a justification in any way for what's being attempted here


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:28:02
content:
  Well considering that the team and froox stand in alignment I fail to see how this distinction matters, even if it were true.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:28:58
content:
  The problem is this makes neos look like a crypto game, what with the NCR logos plastered everywhere.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:29:10
content:
  Seems like in the end problem comes to Frooxius friends wanting more control in the company, I think he's a bit too naive to be in the position he's in right now


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:31:56
content:
  I see them now. I had never noticed the logos in the picture before. That makes more sense as to the response to the pocture.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:32:11
content:
  I mostly think that furriest is just having a giggle, either that or hes gotta be pretty jaded about people


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:33:04
content:
  and Froox claimed IP for having no contract with Solirax, making company value to 0. (cus the dev can claim IP also, which will make Neos IP owned by everyone==noone)
  I know he cares about passion not money, but he is losing quite a lot for that claim.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:33:22
content:
  Seen how discord is handling Karel, seems like you guys don't want the same approach used towards your own side :o


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:33:36
content:
  I'm unsure of your metric of "Intentions" and "Innocent". Do they have opinions? Most humans do, but if you're implying that they have nefarious or alternative agendas for this course of action, then I'm sorry to say that it's wrong. I am good friends with much of the team, and I can tell you that they just want to get back to work and put this mess behind them. Literally all they want is for things to go back to normal and not have this shit hanging over everyone's heads


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:36:15
content:
  Also if any of yall in here who havent played Neos before need an introduction id be more than happy to show and teach, its what i do afterall


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:36:26
content:
  I'd want to see what each side is demanding in these negotiations, seems like Frooxius and volunteers are only happy if Karel is kicked out having no say over anything? Latest I've heard is Karel is willing to give Frooxius and dev team autonomy


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:37:11
content:
  They want Karel to keep developing his coin, but as a third party that can eventually implement their coin as a plugin on top of the game


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:37:33
content:
  With how the message on that was worded from Karel if you mean what i think you mean it sounded like putting Froox and team on a seperate company hat works for him and only produces code for neos while karel would own neos, which isnt great


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:41:26
edit_date: 2022-03-10 14:41:41
content:
  The one upside to this is that apparently, Karel has finally hired someone to automate the NCR handling process, which should've been done way sooner

  at least an upside for the crypto side


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:43:51
content:
  I mean If i was manually sending tons of transactions everyday id want to just lay down and sleep myself, it sounds like torture during the uptick.

  But also that was entirely on him also


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:44:18
content:
  I'm sorry but I just can't fathom the fact that you want a ceo on the cusp of burning out claiming working at 31 is "getting too old", he clearly said he doesn't want to spend more time on Neos, he wants to be a dad


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:45:59
content:
  I mean, he can do both. But Frooxius did burn out and here we are. Clearly both Karel and Frooxius were getting burned out from everything.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:46:14
content:
  I don't think it is fair to be significantly upset about the CEO not spending a lot of time hanging out in Neos. I have never met the CEOs of Nintendo, From Software, Apple, Microsoft, or any other major game or software company that I enjoy products from. 
  It is entirely possible that he just does not have the time to do much social stuff. Heck he may even be very introverted on top of that.

  I am very jealous of people that can spend as much time in neos as they do. But between working my real job and trying to put myself in a position to where I can quit my real job and work my dream, I cannot justify spending a lot of time in neos. Some people just don't have time for that kind of thing.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:46:57
content:
  You're comparing Nintendo? A multi billion dollar company? Do you expect to see the top dogs playing smash with you?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:47:00
content:
  Its ok for Karel not to spend time in neos, thats totally fine.

  But you dont get to do that and then try and force your vision onto the platform you basically have no experience in


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:47:41
content:
  I told him it needed to be automated months ago, but I was just accused of FUD, and he said it wasn't going to be an issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:51:56
content:
  Attempting to politically charge this conflict will help nobody and contributes nothing. Stop trying to cause more of a divide.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:52:53
content:
  His tweet did not imply that political views where any significant part of the issue. Just that Froox did not care about money.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:53:07
content:
  I think Ens either tying too hard to analyze thinngs or just trolling

  because there literally no more context there


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:55:54
content:
  Imma humor the politics thing for only one message and say that Karel talking about how "scoialist" Czechia is doesnt really make it seem like he has a positive view of "lefties"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 14:59:16
content:
  Do you want to know an off topic fun fact? The Berlin wall's real name is the Anti Fascist Protection Rampart.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:05:55
content:
  If Karel is kicked out and NCR at best becomes a third party product, do you think the dev team should get ANY of the funds generated by NCR?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:06:58
content:
  No but service fees maybe. But again Karel could have a deal with Neos to have their coin have 0 processing fee, against others having some, so the coin would have an advantage over the rest


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:10:22
content:
  And the Dev team can depend on funds raised by the community, since most who pulled out of patreon including myself are waiting for a way to directly support the team, which is way the patreon income has fallen massively


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:23:55
edit_date: 2022-04-01 20:20:03
content:
  For anyone who plays the game and has a lot of stuff stored in game thers a minimum patronge theyll be forced to keep since otherwise they wont be able to save anything anymore, which makes sense if you arent paying for the space


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:30:08
edit_date: 2022-03-10 15:31:23
content:
  My statement on the current situation. Thank you everyone for your support, we'll get through this. 😊


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:41:38
content:
  110% It's actually good that there's someone who actually is more involved in the real world and other stuff than just code and the gaming sector, the one who handles the finances...


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:42:43
edit_date: 2023-01-20 07:30:53
content:
  But right now dev team wants Karel out and the gamers are aboard it fully, hence the pr campaign to support the hostile takeover of the company


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:46:50
edit_date: 2022-03-10 15:48:05
content:
  It starts off with him admitting wrongdoing and defeat but then goes into "but if you dont support ncr i will take action"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:50:09
content:
  If he is being honest im happy hes seen what he did wrong, but also kinda eye rolling that he thinks he can still force his way on the team at the end there


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:55:34
content:
  Anyone have different idea should leave this channel, it's pro karel's channel.  If you don't  like, please go elsewhere.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:56:47
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:42:37
content:
  We are in an active period of negotiation talks with Tomáš in order to find a satisfactory solution that will
  leave both parties free to develop Neos according to their own visions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:57:17
content:
  This s the official Neos Metaverse Telegramm according to the description, we can have criticisms all we want, disagreeing with you is no crime


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 15:58:16
content:
  For Neos Credits, a greater integration that will allow for an independent in-world economy and cost 
  effective payments is necessary. Neos Store will be an essential part of the new roadmap together with 
  other additions that we will be able to formulate once the situation is clearer.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:00:09
content:
  Yeah it being a fork is an assumption it would mean that going forward there would be 2 variants of neos independently develooped which i doubt would be the case


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:04:27
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:05:43
content:
  karel's opinion is very clear, previous dev too slow, he will enroll more engineers to promote the development.  And previous codes must be shared, because it's company's property. Otherwise he will use any legal weapon he can.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:12:44
content:
  clear rejection of Froox's offer. up to Froox now whether to split rights/licensing to Neos code and fork, or go to litigation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:17:05
content:
  The previous dev team want both fund and code and fame.  Karel and crypto society only want previous code, because it will save time rather than coding from the blank.  And i'm sure current codes will be obsoleted with 18 monthes.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:21:33
content:
  When we design some web3 projects, mostly we start from the buttom.  Web3 (crypto) have different tech stack mostly.  So the previous code just like some reference which can save time, but you have to write most of the codes from the beginning.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:23:28
content:
  200 users are so few, I invest loot project also.  Loots and Realms ecosystem have 10K users now, even before starknet still not activated.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:23:33
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:52:01
content:
  hmm.. this could be nice opportunity to start from pro-crypto platform which will also allow DAO possible like the decentraland


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:29:38
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:29:59
content:
  See but thats the beauty of it we dont have to have common ground or agree, exchanging ideas even if opposing is neat


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:30:50
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:31:13
content:
  Hi all. 

  While it can’t expected that everyone is to agree with Karel’s statement, please let’s at least try to discuss things in a constructive, polite manner and with an open mind. 

  It is a difficult situation for sure, but one that has a solution, if we are able to focus on the future and the bigger picture. Nothing great was ever achieved by lingering in negativity and where is a will there is a way. And damn right there is a will 💪☺️


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:36:15
content:
  hard folk, share the codes,  give some funds to previous team.   Third party? never can, company must have his own developing team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:37:07
edit_date: 2022-03-11 16:44:49
content:
  If neos metaverse still depends on these guys, there won't be any future for neos metaverse and ncr.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:40:43
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:41:00
content:
  So karel can only do is, use legal weapon, retreive back codes.  Meanwhile  start codes from beginning, as soon as possible.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:42:27
content:
  Exactly we already are spreading the document ourselves in the discord but Karel probably should make an announcement there for those who dont read the related threads


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:44:46
content:
  Yeah but the distribution of yknow people is a bit different eveyone should be aware of this information


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:45:25
content:
  There is no official Telegram. Karel calling it one won't change that, when it's managed this poorly and the team has no input.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:46:06
edit_date: 2022-03-11 16:46:15
content:
  If you want an official telegram, make one that all the team has access to and that follows the Neos guidelines.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 16:46:10
edit_date: 2022-03-10 16:47:02
content:
  May be true but this is 178 vs Thousands in discord. Some have even been banned from here for negative talk of Karel and NCR. Although negative talk isnt something that is good the information should still be public to the greater group. Also many dont use the telegram channels for the assumption of it being NCR focused. It can also be pointed out this channel isnt officially linked in the discord as well limiting access


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:12:32
edit_date: 2022-03-11 16:46:51
content:
  Karel said in the pdf that he and frooxius are going their separate ways and each will develop neos the way they want. That makes this the official Telegram for what Karel is building.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:14:55
edit_date: 2022-03-10 17:17:55
content:
  geenz clicking shit emo on Karel's discord announcement is just pathetic.
  I hope Froox's reaction isnt such immature one.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:16:52
content:
  but not like as we want obviously....
  Froox suggested Karel to leave with 3rd party NCR, which is also active negotiation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:21:15
content:
  I mean if a skillset isnt covered by a volunteer he'll either need another volunteer or to hire someone to do it


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:22:47
content:
  as far as i can tell, a few hundred users was enough for froox to support the amount of development he wanted to do, which was extremely cheap because most devs were working for free


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:24:06
content:
  i would say i don't understand people's fixation with growth, but i do understand it and fucking hate it


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:25:52
content:
  Neos has thousands of active daily users per day, and regularly has 300 concurrent users at a time. Neos' growth has been slow, and that's good. Suddenly popularity spikes rarely go down well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:26:25
edit_date: 2022-03-10 17:26:34
content:
  whenever i see people say "here's how to grow" it's either "dump your money into Facebook ads" or "find #1 and do what they do" and both are bad — and the current third option of "run a ponzi scheme and hope some of the victims also play your game" is not inspiring either


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:26:30
content:
  But Froox doesnt even claim for company's rights such as IP. 
  Even if the company thrives, there will be always fight over this.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:29:50
content:
  Not to mention that all of neoses current growth is purely organic and that is good because neos in its current state is no ready to pump out some advertisements to get people in, we need to first get the UI update and thats honeslty just the start


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:32:45
content:
  Maybe permissions first and set in the design. Separate scripting language beside LogiX for more complex stuff


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:33:58
content:
  Read the statement though not much is changed. I understand he worded it a certain way to try to be positive but everyone just called him shit anyway


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:34:41
content:
  Mainly cause of the wording and the ending part where he reasserts his offensive against the teams wishes


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:38:41
content:
  he's just baldly asserting that options other than creating Product are impossible, ignoring how Neos actually came to exist


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:39:38
content:
  Yes, they both have equal share but so far have had totally different areas of focus which has lead to this mess


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:40:07
content:
  orc: i mean ok, let me read this very literally before i get on my soapbox. he's saying you can't build a product without creating value for supporters and investors,and without creating the appearance of constant progress


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:40:39
content:
  It seems like the only point of contention is what is the fate of the NCR holders, where Karel wants them to be taken care of and Froox/devs/community thinks it's acceptable to toss them aside and let NCR go to zero and be a "plugin" or some shit


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:40:59
content:
  effectively karel needs to be read as saying "well, you can't build shit like this without investors, and you've got to appease them"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:41:11
content:
  Neos will be dead in the water without progress. Metaverse space is being entered by the biggest companies in the world, there's no chance for Neos if it's being developed by 5 people and catering to only furries


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:41:16
edit_date: 2022-03-10 17:42:34
content:
  i understand why karel would want to say this — that's the path he chose for neos and he'd prefer we see it as inevitable


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:41:30
content:
  but like, i follow indie projects other than Neos so I'm aware you  can build shit without whoring yourself out to capitalists


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:41:49
content:
  froox himself said neos needed funds to continue and that NCR saved the "company" like he LITERALLY said that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:41:50
content:
  and even when you do whore yourself out to capitalists, it doesn't _have_ to be represented in like, completely compromising the actual product to investors


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:42:34
content:
  yeah they want us to be a casualty they can sweep under the rug. Karel is still the only one who gives a damn about us.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:43:14
content:
  The truth is that Frooxius want the ico ETH to fund the development but Karel used them for buybacks. So dispute started.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:43:21
content:
  a lot of people have repeated this, i _kind_ of think it's true, although i also haven't seen the original posts. the other devs universally appear not to think this


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:43:34
content:
  i dont think he said anything conflicting or constricting on peoples creativity or ability to ignore NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:44:22
content:
  It clearly isn't, dev team doesn't like the vision of their other boss and how he's handling things so they want him out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:45:20
content:
  humbly think youre wrong if you cant see the real and direct malice. the community is drunk off hate for us and karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:45:38
content:
  i mean my issue isn't "whether you can ignore NCR," my issue is that a ponzi became the main offering


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:46:42
content:
  Do you have any idea how markets work? It seems they're all ponzis since they go both up and down...


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:46:50
content:
  karel took a real art project and turned it into a tool for capitalists — in the end, everyone got burned including karel, and he's still defending it


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:48:46
content:
  you can say it's not a ponzi or w/e but my point is that they only raised capital by doing this blatantly product-irrelevant thing that courted a lot of money from uh, capitalist assholes and pump-and-dumpers


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:48:58
content:
  Time to take a breather, cryptos are volatile for many reasons. BTC has gone through cycles like this about 5 times now, the volatility of ncr went even more extreme due to how minting was structured and the dev team trying to take over the company


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:49:57
content:
  You shouldn't invest more than you can lose, especially on crypto. And if buy high and sell low strategy never works well for anybody


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:50:19
content:
  why do you start denying this every time it would be inconvenient for my argument, but admit it every time it stops seeming relevant


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:50:52
content:
  like the dude stapled a bunch of peacock feathers to froox's mostly unrelated artistic vision to get you to buy it. was that bad or wasn't it?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:51:07
content:
  also seems all Karel wants is for NCR holders to not be flushed away like shit, but ALL devs are out to dispose of them. They dont just want to be rid of Karel they cravenly want to be rid of crypto stigma as well


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:51:29
content:
  i will hot take that i don't think ncr can be saved and those who are gunning for that are going to be hurt again


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:51:40
content:
  if you bought in at 50 cents you might be ok, but if you bought in over a dollar, your money is as good as lost


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:52:17
content:
  yeah thats the part I got stuck ..
  Devs said its not about crypto and it seemed like it. But actually they hated crypto for some reasons and was talking shits privately


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:52:18
content:
  you cant seem to see you are looking at things from this peculiar angle and very ideologically wanting to follow this evil rich man narrative when its likely more complex than that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:52:30
content:
  It all depends if the dev team can actually agree to negotiate other than to just want Karel out on their own terms


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:52:42
content:
  i'll fully disclose, i work for a company where my perception is that effectively this same thing happened


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:52:49
content:
  What upsets me is, that what I put into the mint has been distributed to the "scammers" I mean, who profited from the buybacks


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:53:07
content:
  it's possible i'm guilty of over-imposing the pattern i've witnessed in real life. but i've witnessed it in real life for multiple products, of which several weren't cryptos


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:53:48
content:
  you're probably not going to argue me out of the idea that when you go around looking for investment, the main thing investors are looking for is "ok how much are you willing to whore your product out for short-term gain" — and karel talks identically to the other people i have seen who wants that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:54:19
content:
  the most common thing is to create the appearance of incredibly strong KPIs in the short term so retail investors will overestimate your valuation and you can scam them — that's how like, Uber works


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:54:30
edit_date: 2022-03-10 17:54:48
content:
  Okay, they have NCR now and they can break even, but that's a high stake. Especially now with the current situation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:54:30
content:
  well I just see online alot people take a complex situation involving people and simplify them to being less than human and take this infantile view on things all the time. reminds me of how social media wants to compare the Ukraine war with Marvel comics or star wars or some shit all time time


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:54:59
content:
  i guess my stance is that there's a naive view of this issue that is mostly wrong, and at no point have i really posted that naive view — but i'm frequently accused of it


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:55:50
content:
  my opinion is that i actually  thought about it for a while and concluded the thing that happened is really gross and ugly, and the fact of me having a strong opinion gets turned into "wow, your stance must be incredibly naive"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:56:26
content:
  (in particular: i'd be upset by Karel's behavior even if it saved the product — like, i've worked on things that were saved by institutional investment but which lost their  soul as a result; i think it's bad that froox was complicit in it)


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:56:46
content:
  oh yeah, i get you! fwiw i'm trying to be a little bit less of an asshole to you although i might be failing


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:57:36
content:
  like whats being lost tho? they gonna remove fur avatars or something? like just admit you want Neos to be a place for marxists and furries to hang out or something


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:57:41
content:
  i'm admittedly still mad about distant-past shit like the sale of livejournal, which i kinda see this as comparable to. like i see this as just another chapter in a ridiculously long story of corporate greed


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 17:59:10
content:
  i mean ok it's more like that already happened with the VC thing, but  the announcement was made "well we're all still puppets but there's room for an additional hand up our collective asses"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:00:16
content:
  i guess one of my opinions is that usually, post-acquisition, the decay of a thing is pretty slow and hard to exactly trace back to the people who did the acquisition


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:00:55
content:
  and tbh i think the community wants simplistic views. theyve long wantedna crypto badman to bash and they dont want karel to be anything except that. like full stop you are not paying attention if you cant see that the community wants NCR holders to get anally raped and the devs are at best acting like deadbeat fathers who want to dump their responsibility in a truckstop toilet


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:00:58
edit_date: 2022-03-10 18:01:07
content:
  when capitalists buy something, their goal is to extract as much revenue as they can from it — and sometimes that means a slow strategy, which means it can last for a while, but other times they don't have the mental bandwidth to run a slow strategy so they full-on destroy shit.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:01:53
content:
  fwiw i actually just learned this part of the deep Kulza lore and that is actually super impressive to me


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:02:48
content:
  oh man, lately i've been totally trying to reframe NCR holders to myself as victims in my head, which is admittedly hard because some of them behave in ways that are hateable


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:03:25
content:
  fwiw i would not describe myself as a communist, i think i have a requisite level of disgust for capitalism though


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:04:24
content:
  but I also thinknlarge numbers of the community ans lots of furries are currently on a marxism fling. and again I dont care if someone is communist but it seems to override their logic more importantly care for other human beings


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:05:11
content:
  cause its sorts acknowledging at at the center of the crypto vs anti debate are political motivations playing out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:05:35
content:
  i think most furries have some leftist sympathies but do not know what they want to do with the state. imho if you don't want to create communism you probably shouldn't call yourself a communist


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:06:33
content:
  i think that basically yes, a lot of people are needlessly shitty to folks who are basically victims in this equation — i think a lot of furry fandom's general shittiness to crypto people is tbh deserved, because if you don't pounce on MLM or whatever, it _really_ entrenches itself


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:07:20
content:
  i think it's actually good for furry fandom that anyone who thinks "maybe I'll sell NFTs" has to think "but then I would be dogpiled" because like, the super heavy and slightly irrational response keeps that behavior mostly out of p ublic


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:07:26
content:
  For full disclosure i am unhappy with current society but what i want is not as easy as communism or capitalism, my main ask is that living is no longer a privilige.

  Work should provide income for extra things, bare necesities like food water and shelter should not require you to work for them


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:07:58
content:
  And i think thats not a political thing to say that people should be allowed to be alive, just humanitarian


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:08:14
edit_date: 2022-03-10 18:09:23
content:
  lucaedr: i mean i think orc is actually sincere, but i think on avg people bring up politics because when someone admits to being a communist it's easy to just switch to acting like they showed their whole ass


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:08:38
content:
  i identified as a communist until i realized i didn't think anarchism would work and i didn't like any actually-existing socialist states.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:10:40
content:
  well i made an offhand mention of how I think political currents in the furry community are a part of disagreements.. like I think we all want to simplify things to have cleae villains in the situation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:12:12
content:
  (fwiw i think my strong anti-karel stance is not a result of having an oversimplified view of the situation; however, he strongly reminds me of IRL people I hate, so i likely have some bias)


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:12:17
content:
  if the purpose is tp get rid of karel.. why cant they come to a solution that doesnt involve having NCR holders be shoved away as third party?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:12:27
content:
  "Pulling the rug" was never the intention from either party, it's just a side effect of a coin being based on speculation alone. They are having a conflict, and every time internal conflict happens, especially the ones that go public, tanks trust and reputation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:12:42
content:
  i guess one of my thoughts is basically that demanding "nuance" is really common as a way to forestall criticism, even when the nuance doesn't exist, or makes the situation look worse


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:13:29
content:
  i guess my practical feeling is that I just don't see NCR's valuation _ever_ spiking to the levels it had before


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:13:40
content:
  i feel like anyone who bought it at that price was just wrong, probably. like it was clearly getting pumped via hype


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:13:59
content:
  i'm not sure it can be saved, although it can probably be temporarily pumped again — which would just hurt a new set of investors


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:14:42
content:
  i think the original sin was selling NCR at unsustainable prices, and from there _someone_ has to lose


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:15:07
content:
  it's hard to assign responsibility for that because yeah, some minted NCR was sold that way, also some bought NCR was


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:15:23
content:
  I mean most of us said from the start that the sudden massive pump from crypto investors is a bad thing because marketplace is not in place yet


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:15:58
content:
  If there are losers in all markets thats fine. If NCR crumbled due to natural market movement thats one thing... but ppl are upset bexause this is anything but natural


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:16:19
content:
  i mean i would argue that if the price is something ridiculous as part of a hype cycle, then it's gonna crumble no matter what


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:16:43
content:
  It's natural because there was nothing to back the currency up beyond Karels words which have since then been called into question


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:16:49
edit_date: 2022-03-10 18:16:56
content:
  i don't even know how much money he was making from that. it strikes me as something people would also do for ego


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:18:12
content:
  i think you've done this few times? people's objection isn't "i was scammed," because yeah then ignoring it would help. people's objection is "there was a scam"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:18:37
content:
  At the very least once the first liquidity wall was put in place to prevent the price fromo dropping you should have seen this coming


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:19:13
content:
  i never held NCR and never lost NCR. i'm upset because of the Thing That Happened; so saying "yeah, ignore those people" doesn't help when i'm upset about what happened to other people


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:19:46
content:
  people say its a scam becsise they collected money for 4 years then dump the ppl they collected from


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:19:53
content:
  like it's weird because you (Orc) have been hammering the point that it's so unfair for the devs to ignore the NCR holders, but when people complain about how they were taken for a ride you're like "eh, it happens. if you're smart you won'tget scammed"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:20:27
content:
  I had NCR from Patreon minting, looked at the trends and without any deep crypto knowledge saw this coming and sold at a profit point VS the money i had put in


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:21:02
content:
  ok putting it another way — it's  "remember the NCR holders!" when people threaten to remove NCR altogether, dumping its value but eliminating the possibility of a pump-and-dump. when people point out "that would lead to a pump-and-dump which is bad" then all of a sudden it's "forget the NCR holders!"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:21:22
content:
  you've argued both sides of this albeit not in these exact words — you argued "remember the NCR holders!" when whining about how furries don't seem to respect NCR fans


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:21:34
content:
  I mean PDF was an odd format choice but yeah its definitely a lot better written, still not a statement we like, but also who has been harrassing him?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:21:54
content:
  but like khosumi pointed out the signs of a bubble and you were like, "yeah that will just happen, ignore it"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:23:29
content:
  oh, sorry. because it might get pumped and all those NCR holders the furries are casting into the gutter (your words) might get out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:23:58
content:
  i mean that's not how this should be looked at imho — the question is "was there ever a good reason for NCR to be first-party?"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:24:11
content:
  the answer is "there were bad reasons — it helped the platform survive but led to a boatload of people being scammed"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:24:54
content:
  the answer to "is there a good reason now?" (for NCR to be in the game) is "obviously no, the game is barely being funded and there's massive harm potential at little apparent upside"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:25:08
content:
  It's value is derived from its utility within neos, currently only buying storage and tipping people


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:26:12
content:
  and when the developers of the game say "were dropping support and wont ever develope functionality for it again but um someone can like made a mod or something for it" that means its not real


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:26:18
content:
  Yup third party would mean Karel with  his own team would be maintaining NCR integration and functionality


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:27:24
content:
  They said Karel can integrate with the game through his own made system, maintained by him.
  Literally no functionality of the utility token lost, just neos devs being able to focus on neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:29:27
content:
  it also has the extreme likelihood of leading to future pumps and dumps. so it sells out future victims at the short-term benefit of current victims


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:31:03
content:
  Neos was literally built on the foundation of being for education initially and you want to give it an 18+ Rating, just what


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:31:27
content:
  yeah I know but I think those opinions wane over time and personally I believe in decentralized digital ownership and think others will see it as making sense too


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:37:52
content:
  i dunno if 40k is enough to pay 13 or so employees and maintain all the cebtralized services of neos too


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:39:35
content:
  well its been argued the neos team is willing to work for free and also argued ncr made the patreon higher


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:40:24
content:
  patreon was abused during decembre, which had a massive amount of people pledging ridiculous amounts because of a batch that was going to offer some generous amounts of NCR


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:43:40
content:
  Btw notice the overwhelming positive reaction to this statement VRChat made regarding crypto https://twitter.com/vrchat/status/1487192108180123654


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:48:42
content:
  so froox was on board and tbh I think a smart guy like froox likes crypto (atleast the tech and concepts) but prolly cant voice that because twitter has brainworms and wouls be upset if he said that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:49:17
content:
  they think money doesnt matter. i wonder they will run neos as a company. maybe they will make neos individually runned sw


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:49:42
content:
  i have known smart guys who like crypto and smart guys who hate it (although i think the split favors "hate" and the guys who like it seem mostly interested in getting rich)


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:50:59
content:
  just saying public outcry from ppl who largely dont understand something doesnt make the concept or practice valid or not


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:51:00
content:
  i think crypto is an issue where people should form their own opinions and try their best to ignore the hype and the testimonials


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:51:32
content:
  I will hand out some timeouts if arguments like this continue. We are not here to argue about Frooxius, we are here to discuss ncr.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:53:06
content:
  i'm saying "i think hype is a signal, along with other signals" and i guess i'm trying to give actionable advice to people who are technically not qualified to evaluate what crypto is


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:53:27
content:
  Frankly if there is 2 neos versions, most of the current users will stay with Froox.
  And this will make Karel's neos more business side powered somewhat like Decentraland.

  Very interesting competition.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:53:30
content:
  no, it would be fulfilling your responsibility of supporting it BECAUSE YOU ACCEPTED MONEY FOR IT and then giving people the option too ignore it if they want


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:53:37
content:
  my experience with crypto investors is that many of them literally do not understand what they bought


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:54:29
content:
  i kinda wanna echo charles munger's advice which is that, if a thing you're being invited to buy is surrounded with a really large number of things that seem intended to make you commit to a decision for non-rational reasons, you probably should not buy the thing


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:55:21
content:
  current product of Neos is even better than decentraland... wonder what will happen with lots of partnerships


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:55:33
content:
  ok so I asked whats the issue? how is it hurting certain players other than it irks them knowing it exists?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:55:50
content:
  There's probably no one who can snap you back to reality or most of the hardcore haters in this chat


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:56:28
content:
  Simply being there is enough to hurt its reputation, and some people are very objected to it. Its presence is enough to deter newcomers, and general public perception of neos right now is that it is a crypto scam


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:56:49
content:
  As repeated, buy high and sell low is a bad strategy to anyone. If they're looking to be traders, they should learn to trade before doing so


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:56:53
content:
  but they are gone now, and the user base will be a lot different from current one(who understands more economy)


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:57:27
content:
  this is another example of the thing i'm complaining about. like, you and orc have been in here like "think of all the people who got scammed! that's why neos needs to continue providing support for its crypto" but when we're like  "well, if they do that, more people will get scammed" you two come in like "well, basically, fuck em and they deserved it"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:58:01
content:
  i'm sorry — i'll switch to saying the same thing back to you. you should not have bought, knowing that all markets have waves and cycles.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:58:47
content:
  i'm not going to give empathy to you and not the other victims just because you're the victims that happen to be in the room


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:59:53
content:
  no thats how all markets work. All free markets have speculators. its your right if you want to participate


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 18:59:54
content:
  I'm pointing out your flawed logic which you're spewing out here, you're making yourself look like a fool or just inexperienced. If you're participating into free market, the price can go up and down. If you're buying crypto, you should expect high volatility. The only problem here is dev team trying to push the other founding partner out


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:00:08
content:
  either you can emphasize with everyone — in which case you should not approve of the continuing gamble that will cause other people to be hurt — or you can empathize with no one — and accept that your losses are legitimate like everyone else's


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:00:31
content:
  "people deciding they will not work with your cryptocurrency" is just another risk when you invest in crypto


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:00:36
content:
  Nyeogmi has some ill formed opinion that because markets have ups and downs that they are scams or something


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:01:06
content:
  you keep going "please don't put words in my mouth" and accuse me of saying literally the most asinine things you can imagine


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:01:40
content:
  Yes, that's a risk also. Karel probably won't accept hostile takeover of his company without a fight though so we're just all along for the ride and to witness what becomes of this mess


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:03:16
content:
  Same can happen anywhere, that's all what free markets are, people speculating on how to value things. The extremes of it are in display in smaller markets, especially in case like ncr where it's even impossible to short sell


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:03:32
content:
  he had participated in the pump by representing NCR as whatever crypto wonks wanted to be — he had made a bunch of ETH from that. he then spent the ETH to do buybacks to pump its price


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:03:48
content:
  i mean i get that you're just going to say whatever it takes to yourself to leave this discussion thinking everyone else is wrong and irrational


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:04:01
content:
  i work with a bunch of crypto investors and i've outright given up — and some of them lost fucking big


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:05:18
content:
  i mean it might have worked, just maybe, but froox statements kinda slamfucked it the moment it started to matter


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:05:33
content:
  Important fact that's always not getting mentioned, before the minting Soliraxis didn't have a lot of ncr under their direct control, now they do. They're in the best position to benefit from future success of Neos now


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:07:43
content:
  sorry whats your point though? thats free markets shouldnt exist? or that NCR was designed to pump and dump? I dont think you know how illiquid alot of these smallcap cryptos are early on where the price swings can be massive. Look at any small cap and goinf 1 to 9 dollars can happen alot. Neos couldve been a top 100 crypro I honestly believe but not anymore


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:07:48
content:
  The market functions to determine a fair price for an asset through the decisions of many uncoordinated actors, which will inherently result in volatility, especially for immature and risky companies like Neos. That volatility in and of itself doesn't make something scammy, it's the process that all assets go through. It's unfair to characterize the rise in NCR price as a mere "pump and dump" - price rose because people were pulling forward the future potential and value of Neos/NCR, and price dumped after it became clear that there was a major rift in the team, and then after Froox basically said NCR would be pulled from receiving any first-party support.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:12:00
content:
  Speculation is artificial, 
  Havng a working econnomy and getting a value though the economy is organic


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:13:33
edit_date: 2022-03-11 01:28:15
content:
  this is just categorically false. sure, there are speculators in every market - but there are plenty of people who saw the potential in the Neos and invested with a valid thesis of an emerging metaverse narrative and Neos being a superior platform compared to any other existing meta/VR product out there


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:14:41
content:
  yeah Id like to say atleast I bought NCR because I liked Neos. I wanted to invest in something I liked


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:17:02
content:
  Ill just say in the event you actuslly want to learn something : for a market to be free, it has to be open to everyone, and that means speculstors are allowed to participate.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:18:28
content:
  But that thought comes with experience and time, some here might be 16 to 20 who are mainly just gamers


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:19:40
content:
  This changes nothing from me saying that speculation is artificial price movement while a regular economy with buying and selling of products ia organic price movement


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:21:29
content:
  The difference is that having people buy and sell products naturally modfiees the price based on demand and such

  While artificial price movements are from no inherent value


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:22:03
content:
  If theres no difference in my distinction and im not saying either is good or bad i dont see your objection


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:22:49
content:
  There is no difference between the two. When you abstract out the value of things you realize that it really boils down to everything is worth what someone is willing tonpay for it and if they think it will be worth more later then they will buy it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:23:04
content:
  In speculation the goal is price movement
  in regular economic action the goal is he sale and procurement of products or services 
  thats my distinction


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:23:37
content:
  if you dont think that distinction matters thats your tea, you are fine to think that, others will disagree


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:24:52
content:
  Pump is artificially raising the price of an item and when it gets upwards traction to sell what you bought for a big profit in before the market realizing it has overbought and the price falling again


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:25:04
content:
  and if wheat is worth so much a bushel and I thinknits possible a drought is coming so I buy more wheat... I just speculated


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:25:06
content:
  Yes The initial price of currency is pretty arbitrary which kinda makes the establishment of the currency by my definition an artifical price movement.
  This is fine


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:25:35
content:
  like speculation isnt this weird thing only people in suits do or something like wtf I dont even get this anymore


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:26:25
edit_date: 2022-03-10 19:26:35
content:
  It is stupid to place a buy wall at this place as buy back if something is currently overbought. The buy wall should have been placed at 25 cents or something


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:26:50
content:
  I just think you are trying to force a marriage between speculatioj and market manipulation and it doesnt really fit


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:29:53
edit_date: 2022-03-10 19:30:11
content:
  Everything in retrospect is easy to understand. People were very happy with the price wall at the time, at least in the NCR channel.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:31:48
content:
  I guess. Just I take issue with this definition speculating on the future value of something is somehow artificial. And that is being used here to imply thst crypto is artificial and blahblahblsh you already know what you want to imply


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:33:23
content:
  Crypto speculation counts as artificial price movement under my definition yes.

  However the neos marketplace would be  organic price movement

  Both are crypto so i dont see your point here in trying to say im calling crypto itself artificial.

  Unless you mean the inception of it then yes just like establishing a real currency cryptos creation is initialy artificial


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:33:51
content:
  buy wall mighta been fine. market makers use them all the time but it couldnt last against the pressure. those very NCR whales were in the discord and reading the attitude of the devs and could see the writing on the wall. they were savvy to see this was going to be a rugpull way in asvance


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:35:26
content:
  Literally the only reason price went down is because the Neos community did not want NCR and made it very clear that was the case


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:35:34
content:
  well maybe your method of moddig would be better as I think Neos mods let the discord turn into a shitty drama pit for people-with-too-much-freetime to go for petty arguments


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:36:53
content:
  I watched as in response, people here who were crypto supporters FUD spiraled the entire thing themselves in response. It's very obvious if you aren't blind to one side.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:37:10
content:
  I rarely ever had a conversation about it over the years. People would find it overbearing if you brought it up too often.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:38:01
content:
  Everyone was suddenly rich and happy. Then the Neos community started selling off and starting FUDing.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:38:32
content:
  Considering the detach this chat seems to have from the Discord, it's unfair to fully blame this on that. And I have gone through the NCR channel here, and in discord.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:38:35
content:
  Karel's solution to this problem sounds great in my book. People that don't want anything to do with NCR won't have to.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:40:04
content:
  I don't think the value rise was what caused the anger. I think it was the amount of people who were vocally caring only for their bags and not about the actual health or wellbeing of the project and it's team, combined with the increased toxicity from both sides.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:40:29
edit_date: 2022-03-10 19:40:56
content:
  I can say with confidence that there was no shift in attitude towards crypto, it was never liked by the community simply tolerated because it was easy to ignore before the boom


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:41:09
content:
  Remember though in the first month of the price boom. Everyone was enthusiastic about NCR for a while.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:41:40
content:
  Mmmh, this is an idealistic view of the situation. There was a lot of nervousness and unhappiness in the discord even then.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:42:07
content:
  yeah I went back on the discord to when NCR was first made and comments were positive. I think people dont realize the huge anti-crypto wave is a recent thing


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:43:05
content:
  I mean id say we were more shooting the shit so to speak about our funny oney suddenly going form 8 cents to 20 to 50 to 80 to a dollar, but yeah, it was more when the the influx of crypto people that came with the boom that really took its toll and made it unignorable in every channel


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:43:21
content:
  when the entire dev team says they want to sweep away the NCR holders and pretend they never existed, I find it hard to spin that as a good thing


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:44:17
content:
  I watched people, like night and day go from loving NCR to FUDing it. This came from both "crypto bros" and Neos players. They both did it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:45:22
content:
  people were upset at the tease of a token burn and that suddenly being retracted and were also upset that the devs seemed like they had no love for the token


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:45:49
content:
  The reason the Neos community mostly turned on NCR, is because just prior to the boom, Valve banned crypto related stuff from their platform. This impacted Neos directly and caused a lot of issues with gaining new players. The average Neos player, in response, decided that they would do everything in their power to get rid of NCR to try to "fix" things. That is how we got to where we are now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:48:58
content:
  Ive been in the space since 2016 and its been nothing like it is now. It went from no one knowing what ether was to my entire twitter timeline being people conplaining sbout NFTs


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:50:00
content:
  A lot of the hate comes from reasonable places - a lot of minters looking for a quick buck would steal art from DeviantArt without asking the artist, sometimes even editing out the artist's signature or watermark. You can't really blame them all for being upset.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:50:24
content:
  so like NCR being third party or there being two versions of Neos.. both sound like death for holders lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:51:15
content:
  I don't know what he meant by the language he used, but it sounds like forked development or something of that nature.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:52:05
content:
  We'll have wait for an actuall joint agreed thing to know more, anything else is currently speculation


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:53:16
content:
  Started of as closed surce, stolen via flash drive, redeveloped split off into branches, close sourced, stolen, open sourced, continued branched developments


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:53:27
content:
  sounds like death to me. Theyll diverge in development and how will a new team be able to work with froox's code?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:56:02
content:
  It highly depends on the state of the codebase, which is something only the team would be able to speak about. I've seen everything from amazing code to an incomprehensible spaghetti mess in other games and programs.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:56:07
content:
  its a shame there cant be another team pr developers who exist alongside the current one and COOPERATING with then


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 19:57:28
content:
  We don't know what agreements they will come to, but I'd imagine cooperation is gonna be a part of it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:18:08
content:
  Am I the only person who feels underwhelmed by this statement? I do t feel like I learnt anything new on the situation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:19:03
content:
  Also admitting that its not just about the money but im sure you mroe mean in future possible actions


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:23:38
content:
  Not sure if the dev team would agree. I do t think they deserve a single cent from ico but arguably they have a moral claim on some patreon money.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:24:52
content:
  A lot of us lowered or fully canceled our patreons and are waiting for a way to support the froox team directly


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:27:37
content:
  The store will exist at least in the froox version thats a pretty much certainty, as for Karel i assume that would be a priority for him


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:27:45
content:
  Whatever the number is, it wasn’t enough to pay devs i the first place. I wouldn’t count on that after forking and reputation damage, and removal of NCR from froox’ version which incentivized some people


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:28:44
content:
  The only people incentiviced by NCR to pledge was during the time when you could get more NCR than your pledge was worth, that time is long gone and so are they


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:30:55
content:
  the team might have personal money from insider-trading NCR, but still don’t think that would be enough for an entire team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:40:19
content:
  Neos, or at least his wing of neos, is already dead, and he is financially screwed with reputation damaged. No one would work with him or touch his project in anyway. The current dev team looks supportive but even if we look past their blatant ethical problems, which we may have different assessments on and I have lost every will to debate, they are part time workers and faraway. Froox is completely beholden to their good will.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:43:02
content:
  "Neos, or at least his wing of neos, is already dead" How
  "he is financially screwed" Im sure if he needs financial help the commnity will assist
  "their blatant ethical problems" which are?
  "Froox is completely beholden to their good will" If anyone tried to exploit froox the rest of the team and the community would not be very receptive of that


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:43:12
content:
  I dont really care, I think froox will be just fine. if snything this drama has made him bit of a martyr


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:44:28
content:
  It’s easy to unite when you have a common enemy, when thing quite down and mundane life takes hold, there will be bills to pay and new internal frictions will occur, especially considering how territorial froox is and how childish their idea of settling differences are.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:44:33
content:
  froox and devs want to sweep em under the rug, community hates them and Karel seems willing to compromise in fucking over the holders


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:46:43
content:
  off topic but Ill say: getting emotionally invested in a game you have hopes for always leads to disappointment


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:47:37
content:
  I’m sorry but I just woke up and some of the stuff is just my subjective assessment, so there’s really no point of debating that. I’m certainly not hoping that he’d get screwed, but as you said, he is once again completely dependent on other people, just as he was on Karel. He didn’t see the boom of NCR as a chance to finally gain independence for himself and his company and blew it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:48:24
content:
  I remember when I first saw Neos I watched all frooxes videos and followed him everywhere and wanted to meet him someday


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:51:17
content:
  That’s the sad part. With the NCR boom, he didn’t have to depend on anyone, he was completely entitled to all those money, and according to Karel, the offer on funding independent US entity, or a number of other potential solution, would have made him an independent, powerful cofounder. Instead he nuked NCR and decided to keeping living under other people’s mercy and good will. How incredibly sad.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:52:24
content:
  Neos without NCR would have been dead years ago. Now not only there won’t be NCR, he also has to deal with a damaged reputation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:53:35
content:
  This was in the past, the funding from NCR stopped the bankrupting yes, this does not mean that with our current community neos cant stand on its own.

  Thats like saying if i sold my PC to stay afloat i cant buy another PC int he future or ill go bankrupt


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 20:54:36
content:
  Also maybe his reputation in the crypto community is tarnished but... good think he doesnt want to get into that community?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:01:28
content:
  Whats rreally shitty is buying into NCR and then trying to use that as some kind of argument to gaslight a reason for why someone should retain a buisness relationship they feel is abusive and unatisfactory


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:13:34
content:
  Before the boom, patreon kept the company afloat but everyone was severely underpaid. I can only see it gets worse going forward.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:14:53
content:
  People were happily working on things, and are more than happy to continue once this is resolved

  And without NCR to support the money could actually be used to fund the dev team instead something that was not done before


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:20:39
content:
  Throughout this saga, what surprised me the most is how absolutely determined the team is at completely ruining Karel’s life, legacy and future in the company, along with investors’ money/lives, and how they won’t stop at anything short of that. I was willing to give them benefit of the doubt because Karel might have actually done something to truly deserve that. But by now, it’s clear that  it’s fundamentally a dispute over control. Sorry if I don’t trust these people being able to work together happily ever after


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:22:09
edit_date: 2022-03-10 21:22:24
content:
  That shit kinda happens when you abuse people and claim they are trying to Financially blackmail you for asking to be paid


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:24:48
content:
  Well, regardless, we are not here to bad mouth either Frooxius OR Karel. Like, it is not okay to go into a chat room and talk shit about the guy that runs the chat room just like you can't go to Neos discord and talk shit about Frooxius. Both will get you a time out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:25:06
content:
  If they have concrete accusations to hurl they would have by now. They don’t strike me as people who are careful about consequences of their words.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:25:42
content:
  If you have some evidence that the team is lying about this i would be more than happy to take it and share it int he discord.

  This is not about bad mouthing, this is a literal statement of what happaned to explain why someone would not want to continue such a work relationship.

  Its not "talking shit"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:26:48
content:
  We do not know the particulars of conversations they had, so it is hard to comment on who said what.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:26:49
content:
  It would be bad mouthing if i made some stuff up about Karel to attack him, i am not this is a bad thing that happaned, theres no reason to try and push it under a rug


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:27:43
content:
  Considering the forum i am saying it in i think its more than fair, Karel has more than enough power in here to explain if and why it is an incorrect statement and show evidence of such


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:28:28
content:
  You can't ask someone for proof of a sensitive private conversation. That just isn't going to happen.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:29:29
content:
  Maybe it wasn't a misunderstanding and Karel is telling the truth? I mean, we both were not there so it is hard to say either of us knows.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:29:31
content:
  if you say I said that hawaiian pizza is my favorite kind i would be rioting with a sign explaining that you are lying


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:35:27
content:
  I don’t care about what crypto people or furries said at all. I care about what the team, including karel, said and done, and above is my opinion.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:38:43
content:
  well to the withholding of information is most likely due to legal counsel as its not smart to just go and say everything and anything during a legal dispute.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 21:43:14
content:
  I will say that I’m not a fan of Karel’s apologizing strategy. Apologies don’t typically mix well with liking unfriendly tweets against your opponent. I hope he was either full on apologetic or aggressive, which the team deserves.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:08:07
content:
  I did. It says nothing other than “I won’t tell you what the real issue is” and paints a murky picture of karel being a generic dick.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:09:34
content:
  Yes the announcements have the support of the entire team, including froox, and have included froox talking about the situation  that he himself had


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:10:25
content:
  Froox probably spoke his grievances with the team, and as such are aware of what his complaints are?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:11:24
content:
  I have no idea what you mean.
  As i have said, the posts ae signed by the whole team to show that the entire team supports froox.
  In his posts froox has talked about things that happaned to him personally


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:12:16
edit_date: 2022-03-10 22:12:25
content:
  If you think that things have been embellished or changed or forced against frooxs will... then i can honestly only say "they havent" but its on you to trust that or not


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:14:06
content:
  I'm still not entirely sure I understand the separation part of the document. Is it basically implying a perpetual use license for the Neos code that both parties are free to continue developing?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:14:41
content:
  It's not a joint statement, we'll have to wait for an actual statement from both partiest to really know whats gonna happen


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:15:38
content:
  Also everytime the dev team are painted in this evil villain light of manipulating froox its kinda funny to me to think about because i actually personally know a bunch of these people XD


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:18:11
content:
  Forking a project that both parties agree to eventually open source. I still can’t believe it came to this.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:18:39
content:
  One thing we've been over is how none of the volunteers have signed contrbutors agreements or any other contracts besides NDAs

  Also if Karel had ownership of the sourcecode i doubt hed offer the splitting like this


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:19:23
content:
  Karel says the lawyers have gathered evidence that shows bulk of the codes belong to the company. Grain of salt of course.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:19:36
content:
  I'm curious if any documentation exists at all establishing ownership. That's the first thing a judge would want to see. If that doesn't exist it becomes a little more gray area in terms of ownership.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:22:58
content:
  Of course there is. At least we have the papers from when signing the VC investment deal. That would no doubt have clear outlines on IP issues, as is the case for my company. Not so sure about some codes developed by volunteers tho. That could be subject to legal interpretation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:23:46
content:
  No one on the team has signed away their rights the only one that could potentially in question would be if froox signed any agreement or if we are unaware of some inherent transfer by law in the country


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:25:44
content:
  Also there could be non-compete clause from the VC papers and that won’t be good for froox, assuming karel will be the one that stays in Solirax.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:26:24
content:
  When a developer joins a company such as Google or Facebook, in the contract there is generally a clause that states any code they develop while at said company belongs to the company. If the devs never had such contract it could mean that any foundational VC articles would be seen as irrelevant because there was never any legal tie to the individuals writing the code in the first place.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:29:01
content:
  there’s no way the VC was stupid enough to invest in a company that doesn’t own its product. Volunteers’ codes can be a more murky situation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:37:34
content:
  You guys truly believe that a guy can receive vc money and somehow also have legal right to the very product that VC invested in the first place? You need to give capitalists a little more credit.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:39:12
content:
  You’re right. You don’t. I’m telling you, there no scenario where froox can have personal claim to ip right.  Other volunteers might, for parts of the codes.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:45:03
content:
  There’s no way a cofounder can just walk away with the product and form a new company and set investors aside. Sure they can do that to crypto investors, but not to a VC


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:47:31
content:
  Non-compete clause is also a very likely possibility although it’s a lot more vulnerable to legal challenge.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:51:49
edit_date: 2022-03-10 22:52:08
content:
  Even if I’m to take this random outsider’s husband’s second hand legal opinion seriously , it’s a separate matter he is talking about


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 22:52:16
edit_date: 2022-03-10 22:53:17
content:
  The best that I've been able to piece together is that ownership of the code is likely fractured among several different parties. 

  At least four of the developers never signed any contract assigning rights to any code they authored. Prime has confirmed he thoroughly reviewed his NDA and that it doesn't contain any such language. So at the very least, there is going to be an issue there. 

  On the other hand, we don't know the legal status of any code authored by Froox himself, as neither side has provided any concrete statements on this point. That said, we do know that there was a VC investment into Solirax, and I find it dubious that any VC would invest into a company without adequate protection to the IP, which is really the only thing of value to a startup like this. Otherwise, the VC would be funding a company in which the devs could simply say "bye bye" after the money runs out and take their code elsewhere. 

  The other overlay to all this is the legal doctrine of "implied license" which gives a party the right to use or modify code that is otherwise copyright protected based on equitable grounds. This is a judicial and non-contractual remedy, so the fact that the devs didn't sign a contract would not matter if a judge or jury finds that the circumstances warrant an implied license to Solirax. It's a highly fact-dependent issue that will require a lot of litigation to sort through. But based on what I've read, there is at the very least a colorable argument that Solirax is entitled to such an implied license based on (1) devs knew their work was intended to be used for Neos and Solirax; (2) the code they authored was intended to be a collaborative work; and (3) the parties intended to eventually open-source all the code in any event. You can read more about it in case from the USA here (start on pg 14): https://www.loeb.com/~/media/Files/Publications/2009/07/Numbers%20Licensing%20LLC%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20Inc/Files/Numbers%20Licensing%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20ED%20Wash%20July%202009/FileAttachment/Numbers%20Licensing%20v%20bVisual%20USA%20ED%20Wash%20July%202009.pdf


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:01:17
content:
  Thank you. This is really good insight and definitely things that a judge will take into consideration.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:02:20
content:
  The ideal dissolution is always one that can happen with a handshake outside of a court room but given how complicated this situation is I can understand why lawyers are involved now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:08:04
edit_date: 2022-03-10 23:13:37
content:
  You said it better. This is why I say froox is screwed either way. His friends who doesn’t have much to lose in this feud really fucked him up for good.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:11:41
content:
  Froox is a co-owner of the business. It's extremely common for startup founders to work without pay while they build out their business.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:12:28
edit_date: 2022-03-10 23:12:58
content:
  Respectfully, I really don’t think you know how a start up works. I was paid in minimum wage when I first started my company while my employees are adequately paid. Karel’s response to this accusation has been very clear: both of them, as cofounders, are underpaid. Karel received a bit more because he is the one taking care of froox. Unless it can be demonstrated that karel got paid unreasonably more than froox, or he wasn’t really taking care of froox and froox still had to be financially responsible for his everyday needs, Karel’s defense on froox’ low wage is water tight.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:12:59
content:
  In fact, it's unavoidable until the company starts to generate positive revenue. Which can take years. In the meantime, the priority is to increase the runway for the project in order to eventually get to a profitable business.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:17:07
content:
  I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your first point. Yehan and I just responded to why founders often don't receive a salary. As to the second, regardless of whether Karel was right to react that way, there is nothing unlawful about saying no to a negotiation between two cofounders.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:18:05
content:
  These are basic copyright concepts that are fairly standard across the West, and Karel himself has brought up the concept of implied license, so I assume his lawyers have found it to be applicable here.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:20:58
content:
  and please stop with the indentured servitude thing - EVEN IF Froox was an employee, at most Karel would be liable for is a violation of minimum wage laws


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:21:18
content:
  I'm not saying it's not relevant just pointing out that a US court case is at best tangentially relevant.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:22:30
content:
  It's not by description indentured servitude because froox wassnt working anything off, so the indentured part wouldnt apply in that sense


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:24:59
content:
  Indentured servitude usually has at least an amount you have to work to pay off, not just continued perpetual work.
  I have no clue what laws in Czechia that violates  tho


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:27:34
content:
  the whole indentured servitude thing is straight up one of the dumbest fucking things that have been brought up during this whole mess


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:27:52
content:
  If theres a law called that that covers this kind of arrangement in czech law then yeah legally it would be that, common definitions can often differ from legal ones, its then probably defined in the law text


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:28:44
content:
  Let me try one more time to illustrate the point. If me and my buddies start up a business, which is not profitable or generating any revenue yet. Who is supposed to be paying my salary?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:33:17
content:
  This may apply since Froox was an employee of one of the companies but i dunno 
  "Article 28  
   
  Employees have the right to fair remuneration for their work and to satisfactory work conditions. Detailed provisions shall be set by law"


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:34:21
content:
  I remember the Star Control court case. Everyone on reddit believed in the original developers owning the IP and every reddit armchair lawyer was posting how it was a clear win for them. Then the case happened and they lost


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:38:59
content:
  Actually checked back with the announcements and he wasn't formally employed as far as i can see so i have even less of a clue how or what laws apply here in Czechia


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:39:12
content:
  well if you don't know, then maybe you shouldn't be accusing someone of holding someone else in bondage and indentured servitude. just a thought.


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:40:42
content:
  How is controlling someones finances and refusing their requests to be given enough of your shared finances to live independently immoral?

  I dunno man


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:43:15
content:
  So... his motive was revenge therefore it isn't immoral?

  Like for one thats speculation but also what?


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:44:22
content:
  Especially for something petty like "he never cooked for me"
  Like you are painting him in an even worse light


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:51:57
content:
  Not JUST about pay, the shit he did with the finances is still an issue, its just not the MAIN issue


type: message
date: 2022-03-10 23:56:21
content:
  Yes which was in part caused by how he responded when people asked for pay. As is stated in the above post


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:04:03
content:
  That statement was interesting because who gives a damn how often anyone goes out? Like thats irrelevant what point is there to bring it up other than possibly as some insult.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:07:02
content:
  I assume it was mostly constructed for here cause i can see how its easier on telegram and maybe even twitter


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:37:40
content:
  This is speculation on my part, but reading into the situation a bit, I think the hostility from Karel may have come from the fact that there had been little to no progress for years on NCR development goals like the marketplace, and team basically ignored Karel and NCR. 

  Then all of a sudden after NCR starts to get some value, you have the dev team demanding to be paid out from it. Reminds me of the The Little Red Hen story - where hen puts all this work into making bread and none of the other farm animals help out, then ask for the bread after it's done.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:47:51
content:
  Khosumi and I rarely agree but I think he's right on that point. Team clearly didn't prioritize NCR and Karel has even stated his frustration with the delays in and progress on NCR related development.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:54:57
content:
  It was already stated that froox didn't understand crypto at all, and karel didn't outline what he was doing either


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:56:54
content:
  You are takling about a 30 year old, with technical insight above average and an owner of a company…


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 00:59:46
content:
  I don't understand 100% of what I sign whenever I buy/sell a house. I just do my best to understand. Don't know how much he did or didn't understand when he did.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:06:48
content:
  It's kind of difficult not to be on my nerves when there's several people here that hates my guts simply because I do not agree with a coin


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:09:54
content:
  Try and tell me I do not have a right to want to speak with the CEO of a game I've invested thousands of hours in


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:13:04
content:
  We'll you'll have to deal with me, because I want to make sure neos doesn't become something we hate


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:17:41
content:
  It's eventually going to end up forking, why force it to stay together if nothing's going to progress


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:19:00
content:
  all this lawsuit stuff is stupid, it's just going to end up in the same place but going the more expensive route


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:26:08
content:
  I saw that everyone said a lot, but I didn't have enough time to look around, so I want to know the current situation and results. Thank you.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:32:20
content:
  I don't care what Carrell did wrong. All I know is that when ncr got a lot of money, cto stood up and issued a statement with evil intentions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 01:39:31
content:
  It's the general attitude of immediately placing blame on any party without doing any research and deeming it as "evil"


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:05:16
content:
  karel said clearly, that he want increase engineers, and speed up the development. i think this is the key point.  current dev team look themselves as owner, karel looks them as employee, and want to enploy more to speed dev. so the dev team do things like everyone saw.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:08:07
content:
  it's so clear, current dev team is against crypto, so everyone invest on ncr have to support karel.  If karel failed, all your ncr will go to zero.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:10:23
content:
  so i don't care what happens between them during years. my interest lies when karel can take total control and enroll more engineers.  ncr holders MUST support karel.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:12:46
content:
  discussing previous things is meaningless. only way is karel get the sourcecode, and continue developing a real version of neos metaverse.

  at worst situation, karel have to start without previous code, and keep legal suit on current dev team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:17:48
content:
  won't be plugin, current dev team is trustless.  get sourcecode or karel have to start without previous code, and keep lauch law suite.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:19:58
content:
  they are trustless, if it's a plugin, no investor ,no VCs, will help karel, because they will stop support at any time by their willing.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:22:36
content:
  Neos just doesn't wanna be the one to handle crypto. And is leaving it in the very capable hands of crypto-minded people


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:23:46
content:
  $solice is outsourced by other company. But current dev team is not other company, they are trustles. karel is very clear if as plugin, all inverstor will leave.  


  it's better start code from beginning rather than gamble everyone on these greedy guys


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:25:47
content:
  Stupid behavior makes investors pay the bill and is doomed to failure. Next, let's see what will happen later.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:28:42
content:
  don't worry, money is key. if their ncr will hike, they won't sell, if ncr drops they will be paperhand, even if karel beg to them.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:31:53
content:
  The key to the problem is to promote the progress of the project and attract more players, create more and more exciting content and its own unique cultural and economic ecosystem, so that neos can develop sustainably


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:32:56
content:
  neos must redesigned totally to fit the web3 trend, if progress still slow as previous years, neos have zero chance to success. 

  so must karel get the code and redesign everything by a new team. every holder should support karel, and give him help. 

  i hope he will cooperate with some professional agencies like animoca


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:37:09
content:
  don't worry, THERE are many many vr apps have more users than neos. and i don't think thouse crypto negative user will help ncr, even we beg with them.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:37:58
content:
  community can only build on common interest. those crypto negative user is useless in neos metaverse.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:39:02
content:
  karel and crypto society want to build a neos metaverse with ncr. anyone don't like it can just leave.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:41:12
content:
  community build on commo interest. don't try to convince each other. and obviously, neos must hard folk and split to two communities


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:42:43
content:
  why try to put two groups people with different views, different visions, as a one community, and quarrelling every day and night?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:44:17
content:
  i have no opinion, current community can choose anything they like.  and crypto native neos metaverse will governed by DAO


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:46:31
content:
  a community need common sense, how many people now is not important. if neos metaverse have attraction, THERE will be millions users in the future.


  go to a wrong road because fear of lose users is rediculus


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:49:05
content:
  so many vr metaverse are in developing, users will choose at their.will. hardly say which vr metaverse will win.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:50:58
content:
  meaningless discussion, you guys can have a neos without ncr. isn't sounds great?  why continuesly launch questions like that? inverstor use money to vote. they are adults, do things by their own decision.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:54:10
content:
  it is not right , neos vr dont have economic activity  nor incentive now which might attract more player


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:57:00
content:
  the most advanced feature of crypto is fast developing.  i don't think karel and crypto society have a fantastic determined roadmap now. But fast enbrace new things is crypto.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 03:59:38
content:
  have to, so the previous codes only usage is reference. it's normal 1 years later, all codes are replaced by new dev team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:03:00
content:
  don't worry now, when tesla begins you will also question elon, how he can be success with only hundreds cars are sold.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:05:30
content:
  and don't forget, crypto society called it inverst.  you invest, you got risk, it's normal.

  there are many vr metaverse, neos metaverse don't have 100% chance to success. you have to accept it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:09:56
content:
  and i think most guys like me, won't put every eggs in single basket. i put half of my metaverse invest on meta, half in crypto, and neos will be 15% of my total investment in metaverse invest track.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:20:19
content:
  We hope that there will be a result of the negotiations soon. What we are most worried about is that there will be no news later.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:35:00
content:
  Lots of crypto projects write:  us, china are banned..  meanwhile inverstors most come from those 2 countries...


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 04:38:20
content:
  In my view, crypto can act as 2 roles,  one is as company's stock share, invest and get profit by the growth of the project.  one is as currency, used in the metaverse.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 05:03:05
content:
  I think NFT can be an interesting marketing tool. Companies and celebrities are now marketing in the metasverse, such as Snoop Dogg hosting concerts on the Sandbox and Adidas selling shoes


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 05:40:58
content:
  I personally don't care about getting rich, I care about creating cool stuff, whether it be though art or programming o:


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 06:23:35
edit_date: 2022-03-11 07:56:21
content:
  I see so many furries in Neos pushing to keep the userbase small, which I think goes against everything that a vibrant Metaverse should be. The beauty of virtual spaces like Second Life is the diversity of the cultures that emerge within the platform that allow everybody to participate. It makes for a richer overall experience. In the end I think these spaces should exist to improve the human condition and better our lives.

  Keeping the community small and insulated is the opposite of that ethos and it's something I really personally disagree with. In order to scale, funding is important - and a decentralized capital raise a'la NCR was the perfect mechanism for that. It's unfortunate how everything played out because Neos could have changed the world in a big way and offered a viable alternative to monolithic platforms like Horizon Worlds.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 06:43:56
content:
  Lots of money pouring into deposit contracts on Beacon chain. 26 billion so far. PoS could happen this mid to late this year.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:04:58
content:
  gaslighting anyones not ok.  no hate towards karel. havent met them to have a opinion in alj of this\\


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:18:30
content:
  If it is true (I dont think karels trying to milk froox) then that's deplorable behavior. As someone who does multitude of talents if someone was milking me id be upset

  (Not saying karel did. I believe they arent mean! Since i haven't seen anything)


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:28:46
content:
  why pay this random guy attention and talk about death threats, kick him out and move on its been a week since he said that lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:30:43
content:
  No opinion, just think it's repetitive and it's some anon telegram user you guys are focusing on there


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:34:06
content:
  if i was butthurt over every anonymous person online who vaguely threatened me I wouldnt have any butt left


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 07:37:35
content:
  Maybe. I cant say Im too Involved in cryptocurrency and Blockchains (some here some there), however the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 08:56:58
content:
  Karel MUST have a copy of sourcecode, and enroll a new dev team to work on it, to create Neos Metaverse. This is the baseline. Because if karel can't control everything in the future, no one will invest, no agency will invest.  And for foorx and current dev team, they can keep dev a pure version on their will.   They also can take part in the neos metaverse developement and get well paid, but karel must have his own dev team and take all the control. 

  Currently, previous dev team want neos metaverse be a plugin or third party project, directly based on their work.  It will never be accepted. Because as these days confilict, none of the crypto investor or and VCs will be ensured, if karel can't control everything. NO ONE will put the hope on those dev guys, ever.  

  If things like froox assumed way,  the neos metaverse will have a nuclear boom in it, forever. NO ONE will accept this situation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:03:39
content:
  It's not karel's situation, it's crypto society and all the VCs position.  The previous dev team have no more credit. We will NEVER trust them again.  If neos metaverse still build  fully on their work, it's a castle in the sky that will collapse at any time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:09:03
edit_date: 2022-03-11 09:12:31
content:
  Discuss ncr current usage is meaningless, things are developing, we will find more use cases, and even NFTs may merged later. And may be ncr will bridge to L2 network.  There are plenty imagination space.  

  Only add ncr martket etc. is far far away from the future vision.  This is a very long venture for neos metaverse,  current dev team has ZERO CAPABILITY  and ZERO PERSEVERANCE to make these dreams come true.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:13:47
content:
  they are in their discord arguing in favor of centralized systems and being like secondlife. AKA creatively dead


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:15:41
content:
  people like owning NFTs and some of the first NFT social avatars and items will be exciting, and I like to think Neos could be involved in some of the earliest cases of metaverse item interoperability proof of concept


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:16:07
content:
  Such things will be discussed openly, and in some case, there will be DAO votings.  It's a world with fast developing and changing.  Don't stuck something forever.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:17:49
content:
  I mean maybe thats a service the Neos store could provide, being a repository for people's nft items


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:18:24
content:
  but then its kinda centralized and defeats the purpose aside from the nft being an asset thats tradable on-chain


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:19:09
content:
  There will be pros and cons of any technolodge, and NFTs.  Current situation is not fitfull to discuss such detailed things.  Now we have to ensure karel have all the control of a new dev team. and will try their best to embrace crypto technolodge. 

  The problem is current dev team is untrustful.  We do not trust them anymore.  If they still controll the neos, no one will put any penny on neos metaverse!


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:19:18
content:
  I think we're too early for it to make alot of sense, but it would be exciting to support people's proof of concepts


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:21:02
content:
  Stop discussing such boring topic again and again.  NOW, WE WANT KAREL SETUP A NEW DEV TEAM. and share the previous sourcecodes. After that, previous dev team and their fans CAN DO ANYTHING AS THEY WISH!


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:22:33
content:
  It's not about functions or features.  So talking about ncr features, NFTs, etc. HAVE NO MEANING NOW.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:22:37
content:
  at this point, if it supports NFTs it will just be to draw attention. Not against that but like, I get your point


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:24:36
content:
  He is determinted to setup a new dev team. Most of the crypto society support him. And I think some agencies are support him also and willing invest money. 

  So stop  talking anything, just hard folk, and both sides won't discuss such things endlessly !


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:25:37
content:
  its just abit too early for things like NFT items. If Karel wanted to support them it would be to make a statement and draw interest, which Im not against or anything, but i think any dev time needs to go elsewhere first


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:26:13
content:
  Froox and previous dev team only want karel run a third party solution, or plugin, not enroll a dev team by himeself.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:26:31
content:
  and id like to see neos become a part of that (if its gonna be a seperate thing which I dont think it should)


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:31:19
content:
  No executing dev team controlled totally by karel, all the discussion and ideas, are useless.  And I'm sure karel will enroll some crypto capable designers, and will provide some detailed docs for society to discuss.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 09:37:12
edit_date: 2022-03-11 09:37:34
content:
  We are stating clearly to karel with our hope and interests.  And show our support for him. And he should do the decisions by himself.  So no need repeat such things again and again.

  It's very very clear, that hard folk is the only way can give both sides chance. If froox and dev team reject, I think neos metaverse's future are in vain both with the current neos.

  So I hope froox will accept the reality, and ask karel pay him and the team reasonable.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:06:26
content:
  I'd say that's a mismanagement of the discord. Usually the coins have their own discords from the project itself for this very reason, moon boys will have their own place to talk about price without hurting anyones emotions


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:11:37
content:
  It's a move that would be best with agreement from both sides. Just part ways if their vision is so different from each other, the two branches will cater to very different crowds so there shouldn't be a competition overlap and it seems the current dev team doesn't really care about stuff like that


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:38:05
edit_date: 2022-03-11 10:40:25
content:
  Don't worry, karel can find some crypto invest agencies, they can invest cash into company and take shares or/and ncr as return,  karel can use cash to pay the engineers .


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:39:47
content:
  Current problem is not these minus detail features.  Now karel need a new dev team which he can controll, the previous sourcecode, to ensure everybody's confidence.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:41:26
content:
  When karel did have the sourcecode and new dev team, i'm very sure the $ncr price will hike above 2$.  And everythings will become better.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:42:48
edit_date: 2022-03-11 10:43:00
content:
  So I hope froox can reach a agreement with karel.  Of couse everyone want froox get paid well. At least 1million cash and later shares, as in my view.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:45:02
content:
  Treasury still have 4m value of eth,  if karel give half of it, and turn to dollar cash, it's sure froox and previous dev team can get 1.5m cash.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:46:30
content:
  If they reach aggrement, karel can even sell some ncr to get some cash to pay froox and team, and enroll new team.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:48:52
content:
  People do have different ideas and opinions, it's common.  So don't need get aggreement for everyone in the world.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:52:26
content:
  Try to merge two groups people with different visions, different views, is a disaster.  So why not two sides can develope their community seperatly.  End the endless arguments, and both communities will have a bright and harmony future.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 10:57:59
content:
  Tow seperate communities will ensure they will take total control of their part.  And karel pay cash and ncr for the sourcecode, and froox shall help the new dev team familiar with the code's structure.  Or even they can exchange small part of shares with each other.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:11:28
content:
  I guess the point here is that Karel has taken care of Froox for a long time, while people say that he hasn't contributed anything. Interesting that it is seen as an attack


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:12:53
content:
  Also En, I'd chill out. You've been here on a mission for quite some time for now, take a breather soldier


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:47:03
content:
  Before the price boom, I had regular monthly board meetings with both Frooxius and Karel. Karel was also active in the NCR channel for Discord for years.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:50:33
content:
  It isn't normal for the CEO of a company to hang out with everyone on a daily basis. I don't expect him to be in-game all the time.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:51:57
content:
  Frooxius is definitely an exception in the gaming development world. It is not often you can just hang out with the creator of a gaming platform.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:52:34
content:
  Expecting Karel to come hang out all the time is a bit odd. I don't expect it and no one should. He is the CEO.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:57:11
content:
  Like, if Epic Games ever makes their metaverse, I am not going to expect to be hanging out with Tim Sweeney.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 14:59:37
content:
  I am not bending your words. You are bending your own, lol. He communicates WAY more than normal CEOs do and yet people think he needs to do it more.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:00:06
content:
  The entire volunteer dev team was there to discuss things for him. That is the entire idea. Delegate to others to help run the company.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:00:40
content:
  If you talked about this 5 months ago or prior, you'd say everything was going great. It was not until the price skyrocketed that things suddenly became an issue.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:02:57
content:
  Just randomly searching. In October 2020, he made 20 or so posts in the NCR channel. He was always in there discussing things.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:18:38
content:
  Third party is no way, those dev team bring out nothing within 2 years.  If karel don't hire a new dev team, neos metaverse will be a loser definitely.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:21:42
edit_date: 2022-03-11 15:27:39
content:
  Do hard folk, and seperate completely.  This is the only way karel can choose.  No one believe in dev teams any more.  If karel choose third party or plugin,  no one no agency will stay.  Dead company, dead project.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:25:14
content:
  You can read the pinned message to see what his plans are. He plans to have his own development separate from Frooxius. Until we hear otherwise, let's not speculate too much.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:33:43
edit_date: 2022-03-11 15:34:45
content:
  Karel state clearly, he must have his own development team separate completely from current dev team.  I think most of the crypto investor and the VCs and who want neos metaverse come true, will suppot karel's decision.  Let's wait karel bring good news.  We never need previous dev team CONTINUE anymore, just share the code, take the money, and leave out from ncr, and they can keep dev their neos what ever they like.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:35:32
content:
  Won't, can't be same project.  How can two team code a same project with different vision? It's impossible way.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:37:25
content:
  Won't like that, neos metaverse will be redesigned.  World are evolving, metaverse will evolving, it's won't like a dead things that don't change years and years.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 15:40:50
content:
  Maybe it should have lands, should switch to unreal 5 in the future, who knows. But one thing is for sure, things are evolving.  More genius ideas will be created.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 16:03:38
content:
  Karel Here is a thread I have not seen pulled at yet. You had mentioned that Nex sabatoged the trailer. I specifically remember him being very excited about it. He pulled out and showed me and some friends the model dragon he planned to use for it. Why and in what way did he sabatoge the trailers?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 16:23:40
content:
  He did not give insight into by what means the trailer was sabatoged. Like, did he just stop working on it. Did he delete footage? Or did Karel just misinterpreted Nex's actions. It could mean many things. My curiosity on the matter was reignited when I remembered how excited Nex seemed to be about the trailer. My new question was not answered previously.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 16:26:18
content:
  Well, no need to keep asking about something. You talked about it here before and on the Discord before. Perhaps ask Nex what he thinks.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 18:59:30
content:
  Ive seen comments like someone talking shit bout him for hours on discord then admit they never interacted with him


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:00:28
content:
  if youre trying to cheat a large number of people out of their money AND sack your CEO you need to build these kinds of narratives.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:07:27
content:
  No. demoting NCR to a plugin or mod or whatever is not acceptable. no one "genuinely" believes thats best for NCR you just pretend you do publicly to try to sway ppl here to shoot themselves in the foot


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:10:11
content:
  they always wanted to remove it and are using this karel stuff as a way to try to kill 2 birds wit 1 stone


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:11:30
content:
  Imagine for a second, that people may actually have an honest disagreement with you and not everyone who disagrees with you is a malicious actor, It makes discussions a lot calmer and less stressful when you dont see everyone as an enemy


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:14:31
content:
  as in the thread dedicated to shitposting about Karel 24/7 while ppl being up karel sating froox doesnt go outside enough as "slavery"


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:16:30
content:
  saw other ones where he was telling ppl to fuck off and "get it through ur head:we dont like ncr" when someone ask him if karel gave the team the NCR if they could come to an agreement or whatever


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:16:55
content:
  Frooxius always talked about making Neos open source in the past. Are you saying that he does not anymore?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:20:32
content:
  youre in quite a privledged state then where you can being up an edge case where stolen code helped byond or something and use it to convince him it'll be okay to scam thousands of people


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:20:33
content:
  Open sourcing realisitcally tho is not that cclose id say we first need at leas the custom render engine


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:21:19
content:
  I what? I literally just showed him what the game is and coding memes, your brain is just hard wired for conspiracy damn


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:21:21
content:
  The plugin idea came from what Frooxius said. It is not what Karel said in his latest announcement. Just wait for negotiations to finish.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:22:03
content:
  sorry thought you mentioned yestersay that ss13 is an example of two versions of a game being successful or somwthing


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:23:40
content:
  It's a game i really enjoy despite the horridly old engine that just so happens to be a super active open source project with many forks which has kept it alive to this day.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:25:32
content:
  the goal of the team is to axe karel and wash their hands of NCR so they can go "hey everyone we dont have crypto!" and they imagine itll be this big marketing moment for them


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:25:44
content:
  Personally i feel like third party could genuinely work out well for NCR, but i also understand that yall disagree there and thats fine.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:26:27
content:
  It would definitely not work well. If it became third party, then Neos could just make a replacement and everyone would ignore the third party option.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:28:41
content:
  But yeah i agree it doesnt offer any protection NCR would have to compete with regular payent options on the platform


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:28:50
content:
  And no one would see a reason to ever use NCR because it would just be some weird third party option no one uses.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:30:39
content:
  I like to pose the question of if something would succeed if presented with competition. Would it evolve? How would it evolve? Would there be any compelling reason to use it if an alternative existed?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:31:53
content:
  Also if presented with another option NCR would die, then isnt that kinda the free market doing work? I dont see why it should ever be forced to use ncr


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:31:59
content:
  If fiat were offered as a payment method along side NCR, would people use NCR? Even if it were first party? How would NCR evolve if that were the case? Is the solution to shut out fiat entirely?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:32:23
edit_date: 2022-03-11 19:32:40
content:
  Frooxius et al. all plan to 100% rid Neos permanently of crypto. That much is clear. People entering into Neos and learning that they can buy/sell on the store using some third party option that is not liked by any of the community makes the situation obvious. People will just not use NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:33:12
content:
  Also couldnt Karel make a system to exchange NCR for Fiat and send it to the payment address of a seller theoretically like for example CB can do


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:34:04
content:
  How does your argument make any sense? If the token was widely used, it is pretty obvious that a little sale would not cause a price dump.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:34:26
content:
  None the less, it doesn’t answer my question. How would NCR evolve if faced with the need to compete with other currencies?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:34:50
content:
  It never needed to compete with any other currencies. You and the others made it clear that is what you want. To destroy NCR in any way possible.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:34:51
content:
  because at the same time it could be pumped by a whale? specially since a whale needs tp buy alot of itnto dump it anyway. and the point is for decentralization and to be forward thinking about that future imo


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:35:55
content:
  That's because currently NCR (ignoring Storage) is just a fancy way to send someone money without any controls in place for  disputes. I can understand why people are more comfortable with paypal


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:35:55
content:
  stop with the flimsy psuedo argument about evolving or some shit. Your bullshit doesnt reslly work here and you were totally mask off last night


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:36:15
content:
  Why can't Karel just have his own version of Neos to develop how he wishes? If you want your cloistered environment, you can have it this way.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:36:59
content:
  Yknow you could at times try to not be hostile immediately, my dude you managed to apologize to me a few posts ago, why cant you like take a chill pill for once and stop getting  rabid


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:38:22
content:
  i respect you but i dont respect any pf the devs who sit on a privledged position to shit on us with unreasonable demands


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:38:39
content:
  Again- how would it evolve? During the boom in November, there were many crypto analysts who didn’t think NCR made sense because it didn’t have much utility beyond paying people on Neos. In the grand scheme, they didn’t see much value in that when you have any number of other tokens that you can use to do exactly that, and some that even are deflationary by design (on paper that is)


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:39:30
content:
  this isnt a level playing field and these guys have said clearly they dont care so why give them quaarter to come here and spew their bullshit in bad faith?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:41:33
content:
  See as i told you before you need to stop assuming everyone is starting from a hostile bad faith position.
  It honestly makes you and the people others associate you with a lot worse when you act like this towards people


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:43:02
content:
  Am I a value investor, meaning I believe in strong company fundamentals, a steady growth trajectory, or do I basically go long on whatever today’s black tar heroin is in the market. The same principles tend to apply in crypto, with more unregulated pump and dumps though.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:45:03
content:
  it would have needed to evolve through added utility and use ingame tbh. and those were things that merely suggesting would cause anger in the community. Voting privledges are completely off the table because theyd give 'cryptobros' some control. anything less controversial would get met with hate as well. you guys made it clear you want it to have the most basic of use cases, buying stuff off the store. I had hoped if Karel was left to do hisnown thing he could hire someone to add utility. maybe we could have had a seperate mainland for users to rent with from NCR, or avatar auctions that use it or honestly its not hard to think pf future uses... but you have to actually loke the damn token to even talk about those things and admit it, crypto is a dirty word in your circle and you get more clout saying shit like "i dont really like crypto but" than saying "maybe this feature could be cool for thr crypto"


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:45:33
content:
  Offering NCR as a third party plugin ultimately means it has to compete as a currency. It can have utility even! It puts it on a rather interesting evolutionary trajectory even. But this is ultimately up to Karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:47:49
content:
  No one believes that except. you just hope you can bamboozle a few idiots into agreeing and see ncr kill itself


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:49:11
content:
  if I wanna tip someone I have to hope they have the same plugin? oh please. stop pretending youre not trying to sell poison here


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:49:14
content:
  Honestly third party NCR is the only surviving i can see for NCR.
  A hard fork managed and developed by Karel i have no faith in.

  And we know that the team is definitely not gonna suddenly agree to work with karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:50:11
content:
  Because in its current form, even if the marketplace were 100% NCR only- what utility does a Neos only marketplace provide beyond being a mechanism for transactions that people are already doing in other marketplaces with fiat today?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:50:31
content:
  I mean theyd just need the plugin to access their wallet technically, wallets could be auto generated for every user as they currently are


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:50:32
content:
  opposite opinion here but ok. I think best solution is for devs to clean up their community and the problem will fix itself and eventuslly crypto wont be the hot button thing every furry hates in a short while


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:52:13
content:
  then why remove it? what pain is it causing you? you just wanna wash your hands of it cause you think itll make marketing good or your own personal grudge against crypto


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:54:56
edit_date: 2022-03-11 20:13:02
content:
  I don’t have a personal grudge against crypto, and marketing is nicety at best. A big reason is we simply don’t want Karel leading the core project - this much has been made clear many times, and making NCR more of an offshoot still gives him room to apply his skills to something that can be of value, even if indirectly to Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:54:59
content:
  neos discord is a den of constsnt drama where its peoples hobby to sit in a chat and shittalk about a specific individual all day. its bred this syndrome that the devs wanna cultivate so they can out their ceo easier. and for everyone else its a hostile environment to air legit grievrnces in.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:57:01
edit_date: 2022-03-11 19:59:43
content:
  no, thats just the only solution you see because its the one where you dont have to compromise. Unfortunately youre prolly gonna have to compromise on atleast something and thats unacceptable to you prolly and thats why I think Karel should pursue court


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:57:18
content:
  I know what he means, that one channel about Karel NCR posts which has turned into mostly shooting the shit and some serious talk


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:57:38
content:
  anyone who doesnt want court prolly just wants there to be one final pump so they can get off this terrible ride


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 19:59:17
content:
  Yeah its literally a singular channel where people talk about it and other than that we just go about our day normally


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:00:25
content:
  if a topic as mild as that makes you turn toxic then I think thats just a scapegoat. shouls leave your toxic drama slurping to twitter. plenty of other furs there to engage that dog piling onto topics with


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:00:27
content:
  Geenz, we already had this discussion in the other Telegram chat where I tried to explain that the only real value to NCR is if it it receives support from the team by creating incentives for its use within the platform. 

  How well would it work out if I tried to start a "third-party" alternate dollar for use in the USA without any backing or support from the govt? Technically possible (assuming there weren't laws against it)? Yes. Does it make any sense or would it retain any value? No.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:00:31
content:
  I mean- an option is for Karel to step down, but I’m not sure I see that one happening. But ask yourself this: if that happened, and we introduced fiat transactions in some form, how do you think NCR would compete? Like this is some serious whatif-ism, but it’s important to consider either way


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:01:35
content:
  Most of us have always had the understanding that NCR would exist alongside fiat alternatives. The value comes from the incentives and advantages for NCR usage that necessarily MUST come from the team itself. A third party cannot force that on the platform.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:02:01
content:
  Personally the only real upside to NCR i see is that we dont have to deal with christian puritan Visa and Mastercard, but we'll live if we have to deal withthem


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:02:26
content:
  well as I've proposed before, you can have all the payment options and give them artificial processing fees, and let NCR be used for no extra fee so you have an advantage over the rest


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:02:26
content:
  Like I’m asking these things out of genuine curiosity. NCR, even to the team, has largely been presented as something similar to the Linden Dollar from Second Life.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:05:00
content:
  That would certainly be a productive step in the right direction. But that's not necessarily what is being offered. So far, all we've heard is that NCR would just become third-party. What we are trying to say is that by itself is not a realistic offer.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:05:24
content:
  basically? but they dont want to just get rid of karel. this fine group of minds is pretty ambitious and they want to axe Karel and rid their hands of ncr at the same time


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:05:34
content:
  Hard to say really. Understand that there’s the other side of the whole crypto stuff on the platform- like the actual community that uses the platform that have been awarded NCR for their contributions to the platform, including certain organizations like the Creator Jam which organizes the MMC. This isn’t quite as simple as “OGs vs Cryptobros”


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:06:08
content:
  I understand the point that NCR needs to have an advantage over the rest so that it can have value out of the game, but monetizing our creations I think isn't the right way to go


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:07:07
content:
  We certainly didn’t. It wasn’t we loved it. It wasn’t we hated it. It just kind of existed in our periphery


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:07:41
content:
  well then that is a core philosophical disagreement. if the team shares that view, then, outside litigation, i don't see a path forward without forking into two completely separate projects.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:08:24
content:
  to be honest I'd prefer to see a split up so that each party can continue working on their version of neos independently


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:09:00
content:
  It didn’t have much value for a long time, so no one really cared about it. We just developed the platform with occasional spot checks as needed for NCR. Otherwise the platform has plenty of room for growth without it- but certainly people who have done work on the platform with some expectation of value for their NCR is a concern, which makes this whole situation messy.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:09:15
content:
  Honestly I think even if NCR isnt pushed in your facee when you first launch neos the one thing i have faith in Karel about is that he could probably pretty succesfully at least raise awareness about his payment option existing as a third option.

  I have no confdence in  his leadsership, but do in his possible advertising


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:10:24
content:
  whiich is why i see third party as the only surviviable option for NCR and a hard fork as just watching a flightless chick starve on the groud next to the tree


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:10:30
content:
  @Geenz Would you be fine with the scenario of keeping your own version of neos, but under a different name?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:11:03
content:
  A rather persistent meme was “one day my NCR will be worth enough to buy <x>”, where x is usually some really normal thing like a Big Mac that doesn’t cost very much.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:13:17
content:
  The cool thing about the standalone launcher currently is that it seems to still map to the SteamID when launching so ADV-OVR can actually replace the mapping


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:13:30
content:
  Frankly, had it not pumped at least most of the issues surrounding Karel would have been pushed out for quite some time more.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:16:23
content:
  The biggest one Karel has more or less commented on in his recent doc- which is good on him I think.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:16:46
content:
  would have been better at a time when the market was flat or way cooled off, not when there was a wave of fresh bagholders and when the price action was unnaturally moved by announcement vs counter announcement


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:17:39
content:
  ive no doubt ncr wouldve cooled off on its own but its really quite a spectacle when visible drama causes violent and sharp price movement


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:21:40
content:
  I still have my NCR. If it goes up then awesome. If not then it doesn't bother me. I was kinda thrown into it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:21:52
content:
  People have brought up the elysium casino. While it is true they have made a business out of it, crypto based businesses are not ready to thrive in this ecosystem


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:22:35
content:
  I think ppl bought in and certain prices were not sustainable in the short term, but those who play these markets ornjust wanted metaverse exposure after facebook could see visibly in the discord that there were problems in the community and thr devs were not on their side so selling wasnt normal pullbacks but massive offloading


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:23:23
content:
  That’s a really big theme I’ve seen with crypto as a whole. A lot of it just doesn’t seem… ready I guess? Like I love the idea behind a distributed ledger. Just a lot of it doesn’t seem ready yet for mass consumption for many reasons


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:24:01
edit_date: 2022-03-11 20:24:20
content:
  The only thing about elysium i dont support is that they dont open source their casino systems which is why ill be working on a completely open Casino systems folder


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:26:23
content:
  Honestly if the meta hype could have been postponed by a year, Neos would have been far better for it regardless of who would be CEO.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:26:51
content:
  Loot boxes can not be cashed out but still are bein considered gambling in some places i would say that that follows the same line as gambling with no cash out option


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:28:14
content:
  PTSD flashbacks of meetings with Oz where he threatens to ban the Exodus team for not playing by his rules engage


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:36:56
content:
  But anyways, I figured I’d originally join this chat just to see what’s going on. I think there is some duty to make sure at least people who use the platform aren’t totally screwed from all of this. I think that much everyone can agree on, and obviously people who dumped money into the ICO to buy the currency get some trickle down from that. At least, that’s my opinion.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:37:40
content:
  People always prefer first party supported products. Look at Paypal and eBay. Despite people hating Paypal over the years, the vast majority still used it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:38:41
content:
  This is not a question about developing NCR into a faster/cheaper payment option like the competition between L1s ETH, AVAX, SOL, etc. The primary utility of NCR necessarily must come from first-party support. For example, in the form of artificial fees on alternative fiat transactions and delegating NCR as zero-fee, promotion within the platform and eventual marketplace, or permitting revenue sharing from fiat-transaction fees going to NCR stakers, etc. These aren't things that a third party can accomplish independently.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:38:44
content:
  People still used paypal in the early days when it was barellly suppoted, its the only reason we got more and mor eplaces to support it


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:38:55
content:
  NCR could easily stay ahead in usability. That is what a product does. It evolves to stay competitive.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:39:19
content:
  If someone makes a more convenient payment method than NCR and NCR dies then thats the free market doing good work


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:39:37
content:
  If someone made a more convenient payment method other than NCR, then NCR would be made more convenient.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:39:58
content:
  Karel would not just let it die because something better comes along. He'd do his best to improve it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:40:31
content:
  Competition breeds a better product 

  Well unless you are a streaming service then you just bs with exclusivity deals


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:40:38
content:
  There were discussions years past. For example, one thing mentioned was that we could have debit card purchases of NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:41:24
content:
  Reactant and I have provided detailed points about why certain main features can't be developed independently by a third party


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:41:44
content:
  so far i haven't heard a substantive response to any of that, from you, geenz, or anyone else from discord


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:42:12
content:
  If NCR is made third party, then there will be no incentive to use NCR over any other third party option. It becomes especially more complicated if Frooxius decides to add first party support for another product other than NCR after making NCR third party.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:42:45
edit_date: 2022-03-11 20:42:52
content:
  The idea Karel has of the two companies splitting development solves these issues. I don't see why this idea isn't supported more.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:43:20
content:
  Reader’s digest version? There is interest by the team to expand various plugin APIs for what it’s worth for it to be more or less a first class currency- even if it’s a plug-in. Can’t really make those without knowing the specific asks though.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:43:28
content:
  Neos (Frooxius) can have their non-crypto universe, Neos (Karel) can have the same universe starting out, but with NCR. Each developed independently.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:43:54
content:
  In the early days, Paypal was an optional product to use for buying/selling. Many people avoided it. Think 10+ years ago.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:44:20
content:
  I mean hell, in time we hope to let people just auto load plugins on the fly depending on the session. But that takes a ton more work


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:44:25
content:
  See i dont consider this because i dont see Karel succeeding n his own, but thats just my lack of confidence in his leadership nothing more substantial


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:48:01
content:
  "It's all paypal now" is a strange statement, like yeah paypal is very dominant but that doesnt mean you cant use anything else


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:48:30
content:
  When a buyer purchases something on eBay, they are not using anything except Paypal, except for a very vast minority.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:48:56
content:
  This isn't mainly about technical capability but about policy-setting for the in-game economy. At a minimum for NCR to maintain value and use case over other forms of transaction options, there would need to be (1) guarantee of NCR being crypto-exclusive in Neos; (2) alternative fiat payments would have fees with NCR as zero in-game transaction fees; (3) ease of use and accessibility within game and market; and (4) ideally other options to add utility, e.g., tipping and microtransactions, and fee/revenue sharing to NCR stakers.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:49:42
content:
  Not really, NCR would need a very easy to swap NCR to fiat currency function with nearly no fees to archive this.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:51:34
content:
  These aren't things that a third-party can enforce or simply build into the platform without support from the team that controls the platform code. Economic structuring/incentives/policy can't just be implemented through a plugin.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:54:47
content:
  Sure- and that’s where an agreement would come into play absolutely. On point 1 specifically, maybe 2. 3 and 4 do have some technical asks, and that’s where I see having a more broad payment API that hooks into literally everything comes into play.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:56:28
content:
  Now- by crypto exclusivity, do you mean exclusively for crypto payments specifically? I.e., NCR is the only crypto option for whatever period of time or even perpetually or?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:56:29
content:
  Yes, and that first part is critical. There has to be an agreement about what the future in-game economy would look like with sufficient guarantees and support for the viability of NCR, apart from just the API plugins themselves.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 20:58:32
content:
  As in officially supported crypto payment option within the game and marketplace. Obviously as a sandbox, if someone wants to code a different payment system that uses ETH, BTC, SOL, or whatever, then that could exist in a parallel system, but NCR would retain advantages through ease of use and accessibility, as well as network effect.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:02:11
content:
  Again, if NCR was actually supported by first party, which unfortunately isn't the situation we find ourselves in, these things would happen naturally because team would be aligned in the incentives to promote their own token. But without that, there needs to be a binding agreement going forward to guarantee that, otherwise as Reactant point out, the main dev team could just reverse course and rug NCR in the future.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:03:08
content:
  Mmm, yeah, I don’t see that happening. That’s more or less railroading I feel by forcing people into a default. And I can’t say I see that ending well more broadly. Like beyond marketing impact of that, someone will just… develop non crypto options and the masses will likely use those instead.

  Imagine for a moment that PayPal wanted in on this whole Neos thing, and they started shipping their own plug-in to try and cut out the middleman. What would you expect us to do in that scenario as an NCR holder?


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:03:35
content:
  The whole point is that in a normal situation like this there is no "free market" - the main dev team supports their own token. And this is why many invested - they thought NCR would have the full backing and support of the team over other payment options.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:05:09
content:
  Yeah... I don't think it's gonna go over well with the target audience if neos' market was crypto-exclusive


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:05:45
content:
  It's an unusual case for sure. As I just responded to Firr, in the normal case, the team would support its own token over other options. If the team doesn't want to do that for NCR....then what is an acceptable compromise? Not sure, and I certainly don't have all the answers. But it seems like the alternative at this point is multi-year litigation or forking the projects.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:06:37
edit_date: 2022-03-11 21:06:54
content:
  Not crypto-exclusive. There would be other fiat alternatives like Paypal. I mean as in no other crypto coin would receive official first-party support like NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:08:15
content:
  Still don't think that would go over well. That's how you kill mass adoption of the platform. The market is... well, suffice to say; not totally into the crypto bit for a myriad of reasons I don't disagree with.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:08:24
content:
  Speaking hypothetically since we don't have a marketplace built out yet - but for example, in the marketplace when you want to buy something, you'd have option to pay using Paypal or other fiat, and then NCR would be the only crypto option.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:14:33
content:
  I think we're on the same page on that. In terms of actual usage, not sure where else people would use NCR. It could still trade freely on other exchanges though, just like any other currency market.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:16:09
content:
  I suppose two parties could always transact in whatever currency they want to outside the game/platform themselves. But otherwise yeah, based on the example you're suggesting, Decentraland would have to support NCR as a payment option in its own platform, which I don't see ever happening.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:22:12
content:
  If the team developed a marketplace, they could design it however they want to, including the addition of fees or exemption from fees. And this is the point I've been trying to make all along. Those are decisions that a first-party dev team can make within their own platform. It's not possible for a third-party.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 21:29:44
content:
  You seem to be coming at this from the perspective of designing the Neos economy from a blank slate. I'm coming at it from the present reality in which NCR has ICO'ed and there is a core legal dispute between the two co-owners of the company, and trying to figure out a workable compromise. 

  Again, your suggestion is to just shunt off NCR as a third-party token with no official support from the team, apart from API plugins that are equally available to any other payment option. Karel and the crypto community has already made it clear those aren't realistic or acceptable options, for reasons many of us have stated over and over.


type: message
date: 2022-03-11 22:53:49
content:
  Well, I quit. Nice knowing you all, but I am gone for good now. https://twitter.com/Reactant20/status/1502417342529261575


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 00:04:06
content:
  I also quit NeosVR. Too many sexual things in it. It’s just a small platform for furries. It won’t become a big platform like vrchat.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 00:11:16
content:
  They were the first ones to embrace online payment, subscription service etc. it’s only normal if VR is in part pioneered by people who are trying to explore their sexuality. I personally have no problem with people engaging in sexual activity, and even think it’s a good thing, as long as it’s consented, by all parties, including the “audience”.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 00:18:39
content:
  That statement just goes out to show how toxic the small community is. When you live in a bubble you go insane without even knowing it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 00:21:10
edit_date: 2022-03-12 00:21:43
content:
  Twitter is the go-to porn site for many, doesn’t stop presidents from engaging with politics on it. Neos could have been a metaverse for everybody. Unfortunately it’s stranded in a very toxic culture by a very small group of people.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:06:06
edit_date: 2022-03-13 14:40:54
content:
  I'm sad to see Reactant go but he made a lot of valid points that I feel are also echoed by many other players who have tried Neos and ended up feeling alienated. The furry fandom can be incredibly insulated and I feel that the homogeneous culture that has developed in-world is a reflection of this at times. When I brought this up in the Neos Discord, it was mostly met with personal ad hominem attacks and denial instead of considering the concerns of players who are leaving - which I feel is a big part of the problem.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:15:43
content:
  I have been a huge cheerleader of Neos and really believed in what they were creating, but they have so many hurdles to overcome both culturally and technically. In order to achieve those goals the entire company needs to be working united together in lockstep to materialize the larger vision.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:18:44
content:
  The UI issues were a central theme of the board of directors meetings and I think the team is very aware that users are asking for changes on that front. UI/UX is one piece of a much larger puzzle that needs to be solved.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:32:08
content:
  Fml I thought furry was a particularly nerdy vr player with a furry avatar, didn’t realise there was a beastiality side to it


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:43:34
content:
  and khosumi and geenz were only here to stir shit. Khosumi was just being a snivvly little snake in the grass here soley to find juicey tidbits to feed to the discord


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:53:26
edit_date: 2022-03-12 02:45:27
content:
  he came in here to basically communicate "hi im going to flood you with low tier petty arguments while pretending like Im not talking about financially ruining you all in the background" peak passive aggressive bulkshit


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:54:10
content:
  thats what all neos team really is doing. they're getting off on their rugpull and feeding off this drama its caused


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:55:25
content:
  like they are having a blast its obvious and geenz couldnt keep it in his pants he has to come here with stupid bunk arguments about why he thinks his plugin fuckyou idea isnt all that bad


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 01:57:41
content:
  "ncr isnt the problem, its karel. actually we dnnt mind ncr. actually we just dont care about ncr. actually we see ncr and crypto association bad"


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 04:56:58
content:
  I hope Karel knows that while many people, like me, are generally in support of him in this feud in light of the dev team's demonstrablly unethical behaviour, his lack of candor, or even outright distortion of what's really unfolding is an important reason why so many investors are reeling from this mess. I hope he'd be more forthcoming from now on about what's happening, and make a firm, clear stance in his negotiations with the team. There's still hope for Neos, but no need to appease those who made their intent of destruction crystal clear.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 05:07:30
content:
  I don't think much is going to happen until a joint statement is made clearly defining the ownership of the platform and the roles of everybody involved going forward.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 05:16:17
content:
  At the end of the day NCR is Karel's baby and IMO pushing the price of the token down is his opposition's way of trying to minimize his involvement in the project because there is no way to remove him as a legal half owner of Solirax.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 05:18:53
content:
  Unless there is a mutually agreed upon settlement outside of court, the legal battle that will ensue will absolutely be complicated and drawn out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 05:19:32
edit_date: 2022-03-12 05:19:49
content:
  That’s the key here. The team is doing all this damage just ‘cause and clearly isn’t concerned about froox’ personal interest.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 05:27:59
edit_date: 2022-03-12 11:22:25
content:
  This group of Furries have problems. First, they have poor self-control ability and are very self-centered. It can be seen from the status of their alignment with others and the sex stuff on the platform. Second, they are immature and impulsive. Because what they are doing now is to harm others but not benefit themselves. Although ncr investors suffer huge losses, they cannot get any practical benefits.After a while, they will fall into bankruptcy again (because there are no new users and no new funds coming in). They may regret it, but they do not have the ability to think rationally in the long run.They just want to kill their opponents now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 06:35:09
content:
  I guess the first bot attack to the group? It takes less than 10 mins to set up Rose or Shieldy to avoid this mess


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:08:43
content:
  Tell your devs to put big boy pants on then, they aren't negotiating, they're trying to push Karel out


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:19:08
content:
  Geenz might be one of the major players in this mess, I'd expect few of the inner circle having huge influence on Froox


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:37:51
content:
  echo chambers make people really vile and get them thinking theyre not doing anything wrong when they act like assholes


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:38:55
content:
  That is so messed up... 

  That's a shame to throw away a life time opportunity like this one.

  Thats unlucky 😆


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:52:44
content:
  It is a very interesting insight into human behaviour-and you’ll find that a lot of it what is happening can be observed in online communities in general and in society as a whole. We are complicated products of our ego and we tend to protect it at all cost. There’s always going to be some problem. Some drama. The trick is to not let circumstances and emotion absolutely take over and act out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 08:59:41
edit_date: 2022-03-12 09:01:04
content:
  I think the “act out” ship has already sailed, but I sure hope this whole mess can be cleaned up sometime and we can all go back to more constructive conversations around realizing Neos’ potential.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 09:11:45
edit_date: 2022-03-12 09:12:15
content:
  reactant used to be one of the highly respected Neos user, and him treated by his "pretended to be friends" is so annoying.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 11:13:14
edit_date: 2022-03-12 11:38:16
content:
  the team's anti crypto stance amd frooxes well-timed public announcements did more to hurt NCR than anything Karel did


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 11:14:16
content:
  anti and at best apathetic... to the very people who stuck their neck out and put their money into Neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 11:30:32
content:
  they just want to avoid responsibility to the ppl they hurting. They care about their friends and having a cushy life and being in their club but they certainly dont care about you


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 11:54:49
edit_date: 2022-03-12 11:59:14
content:
  Indeed, it is useless to expect some compassion since they are mocking crypto people all the time. All they want is NCR to 0, don't be a fool. That being said we should have been cautious when investing.. 

  Let's wait and hope for NCR not to dissapear !


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:03:06
edit_date: 2022-03-12 12:04:24
content:
  kinda late to be selling NCR. I'd rather hold it and put faith in Karel. He cares about the NCR holders when the devs want them to just fuck off and die. I read their chats alot and they are just in glee over things but also have anxiety because theyre worried karel can win. And I think he can.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:23:32
content:
  Unfortunately, they make fun of the owners of cryptocurrencies and brag about this, and if they come to Telegram, they say we are not against cryptocurrencies, what is this nonsense


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:42:07
edit_date: 2022-03-12 14:54:41
content:
  "We are not against but we want its removal (NCR) !!" Well okay..

  In the first place, if you are against Crypto, you should despite everything about it, not just the community but also the benefits from it. Crypto ppl are providing funds (ETH) throughout NCR but since they despite "crypto" they souldn't be bothered whith how karel used these funds, bc these funds are crypto made by crypto. 


  "Crypto ppl don't care about neos they don't even play the game"

  Indeed that's true for the most part, so where is the issue ? They are not damaging the reputation of NEOS, nor bothering you in game, unlike some others who keep spreading hate..

  We should understand that speculators are needed. At least they need to be tolerated.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:48:08
edit_date: 2022-03-12 14:55:00
content:
  NCR has been aroind since 2018. Its been welcomijg speculators all that time.

  If they didn't want them, why were they complacent in allowing them to give them their money all this time? They had 4 years.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:48:34
content:
  Maybe the issue is not related to crpyto, maybe it is just some people that only want to stick together in a small committee


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:49:08
edit_date: 2022-03-12 14:55:36
content:
  Hey buddy, don't have illusions any more. Let ask and wait Karel get the codes and start a new neos metaverse.  Previous dev team is totally untrustworthy.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:49:11
content:
  i dunno why the volunteers claiming for their ownership and forcing their vision even its not theirs at all.
  they dont have any rights to say they want removal of anything really...

  Situation is clarified that they just tried to fire CEO cus one of them was in danger of getting fired first.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:50:37
content:
  I mean I get that feeling, but its about the devs being ambitious. they want to have taken NCR holder's money, get to oust their CEO aaaaand drop crypto stigma all in one power play. They think fucking over people is acceptable because theg spend all day in a toxic discord.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:52:14
content:
  Let's hope for the best but at this point the commitment by certain people in order to plummet NCR is strong


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:55:08
edit_date: 2022-03-12 12:55:23
content:
  Even tho we are trying to be constructive, it's more like they argue for the sake or arguing and at the end of the day, nothing constructive came out


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:57:23
content:
  If we trust in karel and NCR, we should be accumulating in order to reduce average price, it's now a great opportunity to do so.

  It"s also risky because of this situtation


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 12:58:30
content:
  I'am deeply sad to be treated as a cancer because I want to make profit by trusting the developpement of a project.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 13:06:08
content:
  and I checked the top50 wallet about 3days ago. and really none of the wallet have been selling, but only accumulating or DCAing


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 13:27:14
content:
  If your average price (invested amount/nb of tokens) is high, if you buy at a lower price, the average price will reduce, especially if you bought at 5


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 13:41:16
content:
  We musn't engage into this hate. Show support to karel is the best we can do, we cannot debate with them, which is fine..


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 13:43:13
content:
  Really hope karel gets the code and can have his own ncr version of Neos, I have the oculus , htc mouth reader and adapters, and started playing Neos but stopped when all the drama started


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:05:07
edit_date: 2022-03-14 19:52:50
content:
  not all do (including me) i find crypto interesting. not something im diving head first into. just something fascinating as a tech nerd


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:06:36
content:
  the reason some may hate it is how some people are about it and how they behave, which does suck. cause some people shouldn't define all but that's how people work  (so I'm pretty neutral)


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:20:47
content:
  and lots of them have no idea about crypto,blockchain,smartcontracts,Defi,NFT and no idea that coinbase listed on Nasdaq


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:35:36
content:
  As a matter of fact, do you have any info on how many people In game are against crypto in general ?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:38:20
content:
  Well so this anti crypto sentiment isn't really representative but at the same time all we hear goes against crypto


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:40:39
content:
  So don't argue with them, worthless.   Just ask Karel start a new neos metaverse, and use lawsuit kick them to the hell.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:41:59
content:
  The facts are actually very clear, the team wants Karel and NCR gone. At least the gloves are finally coming off.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:42:04
content:
  They are not anti crypto, they are anti society, they haress normal users.  They don't have bottom line.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:43:39
content:
  They want them gone so bad they’re here trying to dispute things to try and tank price even more I assume in the hopes of trying to reduce Karel funds’ as much as possible


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:45:09
content:
  Bros, never argue with them, never discuss crpto things with them.  Just ask Karel launch lawsuit, and we start a true news metaverse from beginning.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:45:55
content:
  The team wants Karel gone as they thought he was going to get rid of them so they went on the offensive


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:46:39
content:
  Those meaningless talk and discuss contiued servery monthes.  And it is very clear, this is useless.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:49:51
edit_date: 2022-03-12 14:50:18
content:
  This is a deliberate tactic to obfuscate while the real moves are being made behind closed doors. It is to save face and allow them to claim higher moral ground while they try to fuck over Karel and NCR, the private chats that Reactant posted make that clear enough.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:51:07
content:
  Don't let them act in shadows like little rats. If they want to take over the company, let them defend their actions openly in court and a jury.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:52:33
content:
  Previously i think Karel should talk with them and find some commons.  But now, I think karel should not keep talking with them.  Just shutdown the server,  ban from steam, and launch law suit.  Crypto society can donate to help Karel dev  a new version.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 14:58:00
content:
  Karel should start new version development as soon as possible.  Discuss new design and how to convert to a crypto native vr metaverse.   Keep ask them give the codes, if they give the codes, things can be solved peacefully.  It not, launch law suit, put them into jail.  The worst thing is develop from beginning, but i think there still have chance even in this situation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:02:56
content:
  Develop a new version, $ncr can raise enough money to make a new neos metaverse. And I thinks every investor would like seperate 5% value of the treasury continue suing those bad guys, and put them into jail finally.  Karel


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:04:02
content:
  Do the dev team knows that they destroyed NEOS' reputation ? I mean, If I were a new player I would rather use another VR app.

  But I mean, isn't the point of all that ? To prevent growth and to keep it a small committee ?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:05:45
edit_date: 2022-03-12 15:07:10
content:
  They only like harassing normal users, they care nothing, otherwise won't be so few users.  And neos added very few functions, during these years.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:12:34
content:
  that's the issue I guess, one has a business vision, the other wants to stick into a small committee


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:13:21
content:
  You know that at the end of the day they don't mind since they are all contributors and have jobs outside of coding


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:15:01
content:
  There are not many opportunities for a person or a project. Now the metaverse is a very hot area, with a lot of hot money coming in every day, neos has a very big chance to stand out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:17:22
edit_date: 2022-03-12 15:17:44
content:
  Everything has a price, and the Metaverse also needs to have economic activities. For users, creators, and systems, there is a demand for transactions. If there is a demand for transactions, there will be currency, and cryptocurrency is undoubtedly the most suitable combination.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:20:58
content:
  No one was really getting paid (or were underpaid). Neos wasn't making any money. It's not like Karel was getting a 500k salary


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:23:05
content:
  In Second Life you click the buy L$ button and it charges your credit card on file in-world. It’s incredibly easy and intuitive to convert USD to Lindens.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:29:21
content:
  Tech giants will have more sophisticated  products.  Don't say to me "I won't use Meta's things",  majorities will.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:32:49
content:
  The point is we need use case for NCR, otherwise it will never bring something.
  Looks like there is a will to not integrate or develop bridges for using NCR in game.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:33:16
content:
  Ash, internal ledger is only used until eth moves to sharding or layer 2 is used for transactions. At least in Karel's vision for Neos


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:33:26
content:
  Won't,  neos metaverse have to be designed as crypto native, and must try to find some new creative ideas, rather than copy ideas from elsewhere.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:34:10
content:
  Redisign from the bottom, crypto native.  Changing minors things in current neos is useless and won't get sucess.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:35:50
edit_date: 2022-03-12 15:36:22
content:
  At this point the issue to me is about control and human greed, there's plenty of smoke and mirrors being used but I'd imagine it's the usual culprit behind all this. For that reason Froox might even choose to fight in court rather than fork, not seeing him making this decisions on his own though


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:36:34
content:
  What Neos needs is a marketplace a’la OpenSea with an open API that allows other Metaverse platforms to buy and sell standardized format content with NCR as the common denominator.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:37:28
content:
  STOP talking about how to modify neos to add $ncr.  It should be a vr world base on $ncr,  $ncr is the base layer, then the top level vr tech.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:41:58
content:
  Add $ncr on top of neos is totally WRONG,  neos only give some tech support to strength the metaverse.  Technology are evolving.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:43:08
content:
  $ncr live on eth mainnet now, why you will think something like reissuing?   Why NFTs will inside $ncr?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:45:15
content:
  Karel only need redesign a neos metaverse on top of $ncr.  As current neos, current dev team can do anything they like, remove or keep.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:49:13
content:
  Current situation is obviously.  The dev team don't want Karel hard folk codes, and build a promising new metaverse.  They try to stop this.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:50:41
content:
  It’s a little more complicated than that. What Frooxius has built over the past 7 years is an incredibly powerful Unity-like development engine and multi user social environment in one - on a shoestring budget. Not exactly something you just put out a job listing on monster.com for. Regardless of one’s feelings about his stance on NCR it’s definitely a labor of love and trying to replace him is like looking for a new Steve Wozniak.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:51:31
content:
  No one force them keep $ncr in their version of neos.  But they still reject Karel's offer. It's rediculous.   The don't want Karel success, they don't want crypto society have a promising future, while they know they are doomed without crypto society's money.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:56:07
edit_date: 2022-03-12 15:56:18
content:
  But his role was still foundational to the point where Apple wouldn’t likely exist without his involvement in the early stages. Right now Solirax is still pre-Macintosh Apple and they need Woz.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:57:00
content:
  Can't compare apple with neos, neos on top of unity, the most difficult things is done by unity not neos.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:57:39
content:
  Not at all true. The only heavy lifting that Unity is doing is sending draw calls to the GPU. The rest is in-house.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 15:59:42
content:
  I know that unity is temporary, The current implemention is kind of like FrooxEngine puppeting unity, it's really interesting actually.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:01:05
content:
  As I said previously, if karel can't raise  enough money to keep dev.  Competitors will put neos into hell.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:01:09
content:
  I think that was part of the push to move away from Unity - better native ARM compatibility and optimization.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:03:00
content:
  One other thing i know is shader compilation. In neos everything is done in real time and that is somewhat limiting. If they changed rendering engines that could definitely help that, but i have no idea how that works. this is more of a geenz question if anything though


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:04:06
content:
  Shader stuff though is basically loaded from the cloud, compiled on another machine which is sort of interesting


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:05:14
content:
  Depends on if Apple’s new HMD uses an x86 compatibility layer like their new SoC silicon devices. They could theoretically have a native PC build running on a stand-alone headset if that is the case.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:07:57
content:
  Yeah the current engine is just not optimized for ARM at all and it’s something Geenz has been looking into.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:09:11
content:
  So is NCR just for doing transactions?  It or does it actually include a way to do asset management for what was purchased so that that asset can be resold?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:10:56
content:
  In my view, current neos is only a building tool with neos metaverse. Something like game maker in sandbox.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:18:46
edit_date: 2022-03-12 16:19:11
content:
  Linden Lab built a multi-billion dollar empire with this formula. It works well when the world can be crowdsourced by the users and organic marketplaces emerge within the world. The key to Second Life’s success is the demand for virtual goods, and that comes with fostering communities in-world. It’s all a very delicate balancing act that’s a lot more complicated than selling NFTs because line go up.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:33:49
content:
  So I'm really trying to understand. If it's just a transaction system at the moment with potential down the road for some form of asset management.  What makes it a better base than any other transaction system with vaporware asset management?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:33:57
content:
  Just like neos dev team, if someone in the linden lab's team arguing with their ceo, reject develop, what will happened?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:35:55
content:
  Even trump's account can be blocked by twitter,  how you will assume your every ESTATE in second life will be secured?  That's key difference with web3 and web2, not things like you murmur NFTs not necessary.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:39:38
content:
  Linden Lab did fantasitc design, but my ESTATE in their product will disappear at any time, by any rediculous reasons.  Just like those innocent russians faced.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:39:48
content:
  From what I see I think the big assets are the ownership of the NCR minting wallet, the logix engine in game, and the backend p2p connectivity that enables the assets to be rendered and controlled on offsite servers for the worlds. The last two of which are part of the frooxengine.   The 3d portion of the engine is kind of irrelevant as everyone has pointed out the 3d renderer is unity at the moment so isn't really an asset. Is there another asset I'm missing?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:43:02
content:
  honestly the p2p asset sharing is the magic to me.  That's the thing linden labs could never manage and why they still require you use their servers for the islands.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:43:26
content:
  $ncr live on eth mainnet, which was decentralized by millions nodes.  And neos are on serveral servers run by their compay. So I think neos is far more fragile than $ncr. If karel's company go to bankrupt, your everything in neos may be deleted.  

  Though $ncr's price dumped, but at lease no one can delete my $ncr, unless i swap it. That is the main different between web3 and web2.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:44:04
content:
  While the core is on several prime nodes  the worlds are run on users individual machines.  So this isn't really a fair assessment.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:44:13
content:
  Why not? they enjoy the feeling they control everything, like neos dev team enjoy they control everything as they think.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:45:18
content:
  I'm looking for actual technical answers and not things based on emotional reactions. I'm curious what's actually assets at the end of the day.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:46:33
content:
  Why not?   Why not they keep things like now?  Control everything and make lots of money?  Why you think they will have the motion to give up their power and money?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:49:05
content:
  Now neos is centralized,  so karel, froox, dev team, will do anything they like ignore users and investor.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:50:05
content:
  If I have very important things in neos, i have to put my entire life on karel or froox mood? on their kind?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:51:12
content:
  In a metaverse as i think, should be a native crypto currency, which will be used as currency and like stock shares.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:55:16
content:
  Wouldn't it be better to tie it in with other things like eth so it's actually decentralized and not subject to fluctuations based on two people fighting?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:55:39
content:
  Can't say owned by 1 group, if smart contract are no problem,  the team only have part of the token.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:57:19
content:
  Because to me, right now based on what I've seen, I think linking it into eth or making it where I can shift to a more stable currency would be a better bet.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:57:56
content:
  But as the team, it's difficult to raise money, and that token's community will take control your project.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 16:59:56
content:
  We've already covered that some form of transaction system is needed which I'd assume neos would skim off the top to cover that.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:01:07
content:
  Token have 2 usage in metaverse,   1 is currency, 1 is stock share.  If you choose exist token, currency is ok,  share is not solved.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:02:12
content:
  Some projects use NFTs as shares to raise money, and use exist token like matic, solana, as currency.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:05:27
content:
  Yes, when ICO finished, the amount of $ncr is fixed. And even Karel have to sell his $ncr for money back.  It's normal, your share of the compay is fixed.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:07:13
content:
  So ncr actually could be seen as a single cash injection overtime with no long term growth for the company?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:08:19
content:
  I'm anticipating a project, which have some simmilar features like neos.  And we also have to design a tokenomics from the beginning.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:09:51
content:
  Prevously we think maybe we can do some cooperation with neos, because we have  vr scenes.  But it seems impossible now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:11:21
content:
  I thought initially it was asset management where I could use NCR to prove my ownership of a particular asset which made me excited but apparently that's not in it yet.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:15:45
content:
  Right now it looks like it was just a round of funding for neos with a set cap because once it's all minted it's value is only passed around between people who trade it for other currency. Hopefully, neos takes a cut when the transactions occur in world so they can make money.   But I don't see how NCR vs any other currency provides an advantage in that scenario.  Could you give me the technical reason NCR could fill that role better?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:27:55
content:
  Use other tokens instead $ncr,  technically no problem, but the progress by neos will increase that token's value, and if karel don't have much of that token,.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:31:07
content:
  Karel have move than 15m $ncr, if $ncr's value increased, he can have enough fund to make a big team to get progress.  If not, the only way is by something like patreon, that even not enough to pay the current dev team and servers.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:32:46
content:
  but once it's all minted and the wallet is sold off there's no more money for the development from NCR?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:36:18
content:
  and in the end if I want to inject money into the company from NCR I have to make sure I purchase from specific wallets right?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:37:19
content:
  If froox can help karel to build a true metaverse powered by $ncr with neos, they will be billionaires.  If not, misery ending for both froox, karel, ncr holder and user.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:42:02
content:
  I'm trying to figure out how NCR is more stable for the long term transaction system for neos vs another currency.  Right now, to my layman's eye, it looks like NCR is an unstable series A funding that's based on two people getting along while it gets minted.  But in the end only has a set amount that can be sold before the funding runs out.   If you trade NCR in neosvr does neos take a cut of the NCR?


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:42:57
content:
  I've been told that it's because it's decentralized but it seems like it's not really.  So I'm trying to understand how it's decentralized as well.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:46:43
content:
  Yeah I know there's the dispute going on with sides being drawn.  I'm trying to understand outside of that part of the political mess.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:47:31
content:
  I can see how it would get a good influx of cash as long as NCR's value stayed high.  But eventually the ICO wallet would run out.  So I'm curious what the sustainability plan was.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:47:35
content:
  It's a good thing that you are trying to understand and are showing some interest, but tbh the dev team destroyed NCR and at this point no future is guarenteed


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 17:47:51
content:
  the only thing I can come up with is skimming on transactions, which is a great way to make money sure.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 18:05:36
content:
  Ah yeah I didn't think about that. Ancillary services like storage etc being billed in local currency.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:26:01
content:
  Soliraxis is the majority owner of ncr, should be easy to gain funding for decades to come if they manage to secure one of the top metaverses spot


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:36:41
content:
  its hot takes like this that are extremely common on the discord and are there just to incite people. Then the Neos mod and devs respond with "its just their opinion bro. youre the one getting upset, so youre the problem" which is unacceptable


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:38:38
edit_date: 2022-03-12 20:46:08
content:
  I wish people would stop making this about furries vs cryptobros. I know I'm guilty of it but never say shit like fuck furries.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:39:29
content:
  I know most here's first impression of them is bad because the discord etc, but many or most are chill and arent the hyper combatitive argumentative type you see there


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:50:22
content:
  Id like to see people aechive Reactant's twitter. saving it on Archive.org isnt enough as I dont think it saves all replies


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 20:51:02
content:
  does anyone know a good tool to download all of a twitter? I dont use twitter so im not able to figure it out easily


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:34:18
content:
  he say many time he sold and bought house. he say in discord that he had no coin. but here he say he has coin


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:35:26
content:
  If he had millions of NCR bought at 0.6 selling at 1 is enough to make huge profits. But at the same time he said that he discouraged ppl into selling at 1 and he aimed for ~6 10 $


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:43:51
edit_date: 2022-03-12 21:44:06
content:
  I was talking about Reactant, saying that he knew since december it was all risky and got out but at the same time kept on hyping the project. It's a pity


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:57:38
content:
  NCR was ranked like #3000 in market cap at the time when it was much higher. and decentraland and others were in the top 100 so while I do think NCR rose too fast I do not think it was overpriced personally


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:58:44
content:
  I do think it was overpriced because it had no use case unfortunately, the devs did nothing for its integration


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 21:59:45
content:
  good point. It wasnt just the market wasnt made yet, it's that they had an open yet not so openly anti stance to NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:00:11
content:
  not a single dev save for Karel ever said anything like "ncr holders don't worry you have our support"


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:00:43
content:
  they never ever said anything like that and instead engaged with and entertained concepts about removing NCR openly


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:01:13
content:
  Its because they don't care about NCR, the NCR boom caught them offguard, the META announcement amplified its growth and since they didn't care at first, they got overwhelmed


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:02:19
edit_date: 2022-03-12 22:02:35
content:
  while having this air of "we're just being nonbiased and letting people share their ideas" but any talk about adding utility to NCR was met with hostility and "youre open to make suggestions but we're not gonna be really entertaining them."


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:04:09
edit_date: 2022-03-12 22:04:20
content:
  indeed you are better of singing than crying in front of Froox harmful statements watching ncr price tank, that being said, some ppl enjoyed watching ncr tank lol


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:04:23
content:
  so yeah they would talk openly about removing or deemphasing NCR and were soffing and snarky to any suggestions to strengthen it. Maybe due to capitulating to loud public opinions from haters. But holders saw this attitude and were savvy to get out.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:05:12
content:
  they hurt NCR not karel, but they want you to believe in their flimsy scapegoat like children in the playground who think they can all point fingers. they jave a juvenile mindset


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:05:28
edit_date: 2022-03-12 22:05:36
content:
  From a distance I am now starting to understand what happend to this project, that's really unfortunate


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:05:54
content:
  their behavior reminds me of the woke mob that crucified bret weinstein at evergreen college. there is a good youtube documentary on that whole affair. you'll recognize the same patterns if you watch.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:06:15
content:
  yeah and it was obvious, but the were so desperate to weaponize their community they all work together to try to gaslight


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:08:09
content:
  battle lines are clearly drawn. no more of the bullshit posturing while they actively try to take down Karel and NCR. this is all about the lawyers now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:09:43
content:
  after talking to Geenz it seems there's no chance at negotiating. They want a resolution where they have to make no compromises and we get to eat dirt.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:10:19
content:
  again, when youve got the emotonal temperment of a child, you think everyone will bend over and accept your selfish, stupid terms like he does


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:11:03
content:
  Ya, i tried to explain to him why a simple third-party API is not acceptable, and all he had to say was that any concessions that would provide NCR with actual utility in-game wouldn't be well received by the broader community. Which...he is probably correct about. But the alternative is litigation.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:11:49
content:
  well it doesnt matter what your mental model tells you. we know different and know full well that's death to it.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:11:53
content:
  lol you going to keep asking the same question over and over? ppl have explained it multiple times now.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:13:35
content:
  I can only assume youre hoping for a tiny pump you can sell or youre one of the gaslighters trying to shill us poison.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:14:31
content:
  NCR always needed more than a marketplace. It needed support from the devs. You can't set up a stand next tona game selling seashells and expect ppl to not just ignore you


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:19:33
edit_date: 2022-03-12 22:19:57
content:
  this was december, funny how in such a short time it turned from this to "Disagree with crypto, dislike it"


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:21:50
content:
  Hard fork is the only realistic solution imo. The challenge then will be growing an independent user and creator community.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:21:58
content:
  just like suddenly reactant is a villain and they all want him to go to jail over this or something for exposing shit that wasnt even under NDA


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:23:06
edit_date: 2022-03-12 22:23:52
content:
  because we didnt ask you be scammed. Froox took this all out on us and damaged NCR willfully and imo we are owed damages. He thought it was acceptable to try to financially ruin us to make a point.


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:23:11
content:
  I'am fully supporting reactant but he sould have told us that the team was really against NCR, well after all he is not reponsible for that mess


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:25:01
content:
  bro it was obvious for months now. Reactant, like many of us, just thought maybe they would come around or maybe somewhere in their hearts they gave a shit about the investors. We were all wrong


type: message
date: 2022-03-12 22:25:40
content:
  Ya, public statements were explicitly stating the dispute wasn't about NCR, which gave false hope to a lot of people


