# messages

type: message
date: 2022-07-30 06:32:08
content:
  but no one was drawing the line until the concept of someone having actual custody over said items became a possibility? it sounds more like simping for the status quo to me.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 06:34:32
content:
  and its moot anyway as we were talking about how nfts nor whatever youre pushing this time solves problems of asset theft... so who is being the victim? If you can still copybot and have it and you can have your political paradise where everything is free for the taking, whats the problem?


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 06:35:06
content:
  it's not, but the ubiquity of skinnerbox manipulation and peer network effects make it such a massively transformed force IMO. I am also disgusted in these tactics being used against adults, as we do not seem to be willing to regulate it as gambling, yet it has the same impact.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 06:38:43
content:
  just restrictions on what ways people can buy and sell things doesnt really provide consumer protection for digital purchases imo


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 06:58:08
edit_date: 2022-07-30 07:00:25
content:
  I don't have a problem with it until it wants to be foundational to a space. I have structural concerns with it and don't see too much merit in its use to offset the changes in behavior. Experimenting with new concepts is laudable, but so is looking at the consequences.

  If i challenged you to point to real public good being enabled by NFTs, I think you'd agree it would be harder than if I challenged you to point to real public good being enabled by cryptocurrencies as a whole. In my research, the best argument I've found was an initiative by walmart and IBM for tracking produce to better enable public supply chain auditing.

  I find that an interesting specific usecase, pretty far removed from the core concept of digital ownership but a genuinely useful application of the technology which IMO might even justify the overhead by putting more eyeballs on our food logistics. 

  In the art asset space, I really don't see much positive. A lot of grifts enabled by the abstract and uncertain nature of the utility of an NFT as well as convenient conflation of an NFT and ownership whereas this certainly carries no legal weight past (best case) the initial sale. It brings to the table the promise of things it cannot deliver on: real legal ownership, the analogy of the right of first sale in a digital space. In the end it is literally only as good as the paperwork surrounding its initial purchase: it relies on that (laughable) pdf analogy to carry any legal weight.

  So I say again. It's just as useful as a PDF receipt of your gumroad purchase, but with a hell of a lot more baggage and infrastructural overhead.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 07:15:11
content:
  We were just talking the prior day ways it could be used to enchance someone's purchase. Maybe YOU don't care about some of those enhancements but that doesn't mean there aren't those who do like them.

  And sigh. No one was saying any of this stuff should be forced, I think we were in agreement of that. If the Neos store won't let me provide an NFT with an avatar part I sell, then it's not me trying to change behavior. It's YOU who wants to box people into your ideals.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 07:16:57
content:
  and sure if I need to I could easily think about several ways these things could enable new types of games. That kind of brainstorming is actually the easy part, lol


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 07:57:21
edit_date: 2022-07-30 08:01:21
content:
  I don't particularly mind if someone individually sells a (theoretically carbon neutral) nft of their own creations incidentally on a storefront as an expression of their personal interest in the technology. Setting up some bridge between opensea or whatever beyond the environmental impact, doesn't affect me. At least at the hobbyist level of engagement.

  I have major issues with NFTs as commercial endeavors. I have major issues enabling NFTs as part of the core technology stack of a metaverse engine. I view engaging with them at scale as inherently exploitative due to the misconceptions I've noted about how much digital ownership is actually ownership. I cannot see a way to ethically support them at scale without a massive effort in user education and addiction support resources. 

  To be fair this is also roughly my opinion about lootboxes, mass produced collectables and even TCGs. I still feel NTFs have been given particular 'legitimacy' as financial assets and a form of 'digital ownership' which makes them even more dangerous to engage with. At least funko pops and physical TCGs actually do have the right of first sale. There is something particularly galling about seeing this level of commercial exploitation entirely absent any bastion of common-sense notions of ownership.

  You can probably guess my stance on NFT TCGs :P


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 08:23:53
content:
  I have a hard time getting where you draw this arbitrary line. Because exclusion of digital items is already in most games now. Apparently being able to trade/gift/sell whatever you buy or earn in a game is what you'd rather stand against. And do that by railing ideologically against what is in actuality a move toward seperating the player's data from the operating service itself and how that is more fair.

  And none of this shit has anything to do with the software. Except that you've projected all this shit onto it.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 08:25:00
edit_date: 2022-07-30 08:26:36
content:
  I'm not sure why you can't see this as an improvement in digital TCGs. There's actual improvements easily imaginable outside of being able to trade/sell/loan/gift cards. An example from the top of my head is if you play MTG arena and you invented a new format they don't or won't support (edh for example) then you could build out an app ontop of that permissionless layer so that you could play with cards you "officially" have. Or more interestingly, you meet someone in Neos who plays. Now you could play manually with actually owned cards.

  Sure you could say store the player's game data in a pods they have custody over it, but then its not tamperproof. So it doesn't have any meaning in a game where integrity matters. If everyone could freely edit a save in an MMO then frankly no one would play them, so trustless matters. Just like your GODDAMN example of a PDF doesn't work.

  And maybe you dont like any of that shit then fine, don't play them. Or play your own version where you have all the cards and the game doesnt connect to your wallet. But obviously people care about concepts like "official" and ownership and having earned things, because there's free versions of cardgames but almost everyone plays the official ones. Because that ownership experience is fun for most and I don't get why you get to deny people that.

  I think it gets more perverted when there's only one source for something and they're free to manipulate or twist arms with gambling, time limits, etc. which is what we're stuck with now


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 09:15:09
content:
  I don't view TCGs as desirable on the whole. They are an exploitive format, literally designed to justify card churn and keep the money rolling regardless of how that affects the playability or accessibility of play. As someone deeply invested in the traditional games' scene, TCGs are a barometer for the health of a community. They will be there, and they will move an assload of product. However, the more of the store that is dedicated to them the less likely you will be to be able to pick up a friendly game.

  Digital TCGs are addictive, more accessible to a degree because of the amount of rules automation they enable. I have played and enjoyed them. There is a large part of my mind that ridicules any time I buy a digital card pack though, and it makes even less sense given it's not even supporting a game store. Trading cards is the primary mechanic of a TCG. The game exists to sell more cards, it may be fun, but it is a marketing effort to sell you tat. NFTs don't remedy that, they enable it. Do they give back some of the freedoms of physical cards? No. 

  See, that's the rub right there. An NFT does not convey any right whatsoever to the ownership or use of the card. But people will think they do. The NFL released a collection of NFT video clips of match highlights that do not confer the right to do anything with that clip but watch it in their approved application. NFTs are useless except where they are backed by the legal license to explicitly do what you explicitly want to do. They are a technical fiction, the solution here is IP law reform.

  It is just as legal to play using an asset rip from a digital card game on Neos as it would the same game using NFTs to represent card ownership. The literal only purpose that NFTs would serve in this hypothetical is a way to represent the statistical scarcity and enable the sunk cost gatekeeping that is the cornerstone of competitive TCGs, and the ruination of innovative formats. 

  Modeling the probabilities of a booster draft doesn't require NFTs. NFTs just enable the most questionable aspects of TCGs by churching it up in the fiction of 'digital ownership'.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 09:26:07
content:
  look if you want either IP reform or consumer protection for digital purchases then that I can agree with.. but Id rather pay attention now to those who have working proof of concepts to give people a whole new layer to build new, fairer structures off of


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 09:27:56
content:
  konami can ban you from online yugioh but they cant take back custody of an nft you own so.... Id rather give interest to new systems than hoping laws will fuck me alittle less in the IP section


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 10:16:10
content:
  If you didn't think what I was saying was ideological bullshit it would be because we shared the same viewpoint. We are always already eating from the trashcan of ideology. 

  Consumerism is an ideology, just one I question heavily. Hince my purely ideological support of the creative commons, open-source software and free culture generally. 

  Building in mechanisms to gatekeep the metaverse, especially to economically gatekeep it, flies directly against my ethos. So I really, really do not like NFTs as they are marketed currently. I am still somewhat open to the possibility of an innovative use of NFTs that won't trip the rampant consumerism alarm, but I want to see that actually in popular practice before I will consider pushing for them.

  As mentioned above, I still think they may have utility in building large scale systems of accountability and awareness. But definitively, screw designing our infrastructure concepts with the primary rationale of commercialization. Especially in a climate of pervasive advertisement surveillance. It is borderline irresponsible to push a solution that makes individuals' data far more publicly exposed, doesn't have the concept of a spam filter, and is critically vulnerable to poison smart contracts.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 15:08:43
content:
  For anyone interested in helping new users find their way, I am constructing an faq and basics of neos page.
  https://www.deliriousjax.com/neosvr.html


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 17:10:34
edit_date: 2022-07-30 19:59:42
content:
  Probably working on actual documentation. This is just my own take questions I am asked and a community made beginner's guide. I have no intent of investing the incredible amount of work and time he has thus far working his butt off on the wiki. Which reminds me, I should link that as well on this page.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 19:10:09
edit_date: 2022-07-30 19:52:03
content:
  The “I like cheese” thing is super cringe and Prime says it every time he tries to derail the conversation.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 19:12:30
content:
  Plus I greatly appreciate the break from the constant technical only talk and bullying nature of some of the people in this chat, to be perfectly honest.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 20:15:12
content:
  gonna jump on my steamdeck to look around and see how things are midday. Work stuff pretty much dealt with


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 20:41:54
content:
  I've never deleted a message in here. Check it against the archives which I'm sure some of you are keeping offline.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 20:50:15
content:
  Evening everyone, l work for one of the chains and am looking to have a quick chat with someone on the Team, would someone be able to point me in the right direction?


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:01:32
content:
  Suspicion of me being "a waste of a time" for the business development effort? Where the person on the Team responsible for handling outreach/response is spending too much time talking to people leading to nothing and there's a barrier of filtering I'm having to break through?


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:05:35
content:
  Well, I mean there is a website with an actual email link where through I am assuming business inquiries would be best redirected.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:06:57
edit_date: 2022-07-30 21:25:41
content:
  What people don’t realize is that the Feted Inner Cabal of furry volunteers have been friends and lovers in Second Life for literally decades. The furry development scene in SL was a giant social PVP power grab game and latching onto Neos was an extension of that. These people have been at this for years including Geenz - and they socially engineered Frooxius into onboarding them as the opportunists they were. You can thumbs down this all you want. I watched all of this unfold in real-time over the past 15 years.

  https://i.imgur.com/G4Ecne8.png


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:26:44
content:
  At least I don’t hide behind the disingenuous illusion of professionalism while being complicit in dismantling the reputation, optics, and platform of Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:28:35
edit_date: 2022-07-30 21:33:51
content:
  I'm doing none of that, but thanks for the feedback. 

  May I suggest you stop attacking the personal choices of our team and instead provide feedback like you just did towards me. Their choice in fandom, self expression, identity, sexuality etc has nothing to do with this current issue and continually pointing this out just serves to label you as someone who doesn't support diversity in the workplace. Its concerning. Thank you.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:31:29
content:
  Oh my gods they were networking. How terrible. This has never, ever happened. No one at microsoft knows each other, for instance. No one in any business has ever been a colleague or peer in any way.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:32:12
content:
  Prime predictably pulling out all of the tired cancel’isms and ad hominem attacks. You can play that hand, but it doesn’t make my observations any less correct.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:33:35
edit_date: 2022-07-30 21:36:54
content:
  You're welcome to observe their interests but your one rhetoric is "neos team is bad because <personal choices nothing to do with their work>" Its very problematic. If you instead say I don't know. "Prime needs to write MORE/BETTER docs." That's fine feedback I DO.

  Prime however, does not need to change their life choices to do this. He just needs to stop responding to Tizzy in the TG and go do that.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:35:38
content:
  Prime needs more high quality cheese and a kettle of the finest tea.
  And maybe a pack of crackers. I prefer Italian Herb and Spice. That stuff is amazing.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:39:02
content:
  I actually really like VRChat and have a lot of close people in my life who work for Graham/Ron/Jesse. Their team is very low drama and full of awesome people who aren't trying to fracture the company over petty disagreements.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:44:12
edit_date: 2022-07-31 00:34:37
content:
  Neos is the laughing stock of the social VR industry and a shining example of how not to run a startup. There's some feedback.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:44:45
content:
  Again, valid. While I disagree I can't complain. Its void of any personal attacks or logical flaws. Thank you.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 21:47:36
content:
  Prime’s tripe usually reads like a GPT3 bot trying really hard to sound human but falls in the uncanny valley that doesn’t quite pass the turing test.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 22:24:40
content:
  It's always strange to see so much stone throwing from those residing in amorphous solid silicate structures. But I'm sure the tune will change yet again to peace, love and understanding the next time the fickle tides of public opinion clash with the chosen dramatis persona. 

  Schrödinger's troll. Yet it is no doubt a mystery why good faith is no longer assumed.... 🙄 Funny for a 'board member' to so far distance themselves from their supposed role in organizational governance. Of course, the lack of any actual role in governance is an easy explanation there.

  What a poor choice in optics, that was. Gosh, imagine if the people perceived as involved in and around the project direction had questionable histories in previous metaverse projects. Or questionable ties to the alt-right. Really, in retrospect that Patreon reward was ill-conceived regardless of how people ultimately ended up joining it.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 22:57:24
edit_date: 2022-07-30 22:57:47
content:
  I used koinly for my taxes. Yes it has a paid fee for the full details that need to be put in, but since my crypto tax gains and losses amounted to over $10k, which requires extra details for the ATO, I just decided to pay it and it helped a lot.


type: message
date: 2022-07-30 23:05:40
content:
  Of course I also triple checked my history on etherscan as well and through the exchanges I used, but it helped me figure out which transactions count as taxable events.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:27:12
edit_date: 2022-07-31 00:27:27
content:
  I wasn't specifically referring to furry as a protected class in this instance. However, diversity is more than putting people into little "diversity boxes".


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:29:56
edit_date: 2022-07-31 00:38:00
content:
  It's relevant when you have certain people constantly going to others, trying to gaslight them with things like "When all 15 of the team members reject and want someone gone, doesn't that stand out to you?" when in reality it's 15 close friends (and sometimes lovers) and just like how a mundane breakup can cause someone to lose a whole category of their friends, you all want us to pretend like that the same type of behavior isn't at play here.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:31:09
content:
  Hmm, as a member of several diversity communities and an ally for several others. I try my best. If you feel i've made an error that's ok. Thank you.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:37:19
edit_date: 2022-07-31 00:37:50
content:
  I feel that diversity in specific sections of the Neos team is lacking. I brought up the lack of women in the mod team previously, though I do understand that VR generally reflects this I think it's an area we can improve.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:38:11
content:
  I agree with our gaps in the team, that's another issue. We're always looking to improve it across the board.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:39:25
edit_date: 2022-07-31 05:35:55
content:
  Using a shield of diversity talk to defend being a furry... when really all that's being said is "members of this fandom are scartching each other's backs abit much"


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:39:33
content:
  It's currently being used as an anti-queer dogwhistle because we live in the weirdest universe where 'furries in schools' became a political talking point. I wouldn't say furries are a protected class in and of themselves and I hate to enable equivocation but I do feel there is some nuance here.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:42:50
content:
  thanks, for saying that. Like, we have a bad history in this front where people felt the need to chime in on this particular ugly instance in the past without having the moral fiber to admit they were choosing the worst time to stick up for really gross behavior...


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:43:21
edit_date: 2022-07-31 05:35:54
content:
  Probably not. Punching down sort of humor is just really not my bag so I can't get in the headspace to see that stuff as anything other than mean spirited.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:49:02
edit_date: 2022-07-31 00:49:17
content:
  I wonder how many here are acting the way they do to try to ingratiate themselves with the devs in hopes of getting hired someday


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:49:21
content:
  I am going to be suspicious of the motives of mean-spirited takes/humor directed at a predominately queer subculture. While there is room for just cringing at the cringelords, cringe is subjective, and the demographics put that subjectivity across a dangerous set of protected classes, as that's the distinction being drawn.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:50:55
content:
  fat chance. I don't want to be onboard with the team, not due to disagreement, but because I've done the show once.
  There's your 5 minutes for today.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:56:33
content:
  the problem is none of you have been on the other side of that at the Discord, so you don't know how it is.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 00:58:22
content:
  Uh the people who bought it? Plenty of people who still hold it? Non-english speaking Neos community members who bought into it and have no idea that the community is psycho and wants them financially harmed for their own glee?


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:00:53
edit_date: 2022-07-31 08:56:14
content:
  I mean, I'm mostly here to represent the interests of those who are still being stabbed in teh back over NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:03:34
content:
  No, I said she pointed out people have been intimate because she's dog whistling like she has been for years


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:05:58
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:41:55
content:
  When have I sad Karel is a perfect angel? Sorry I don't join in on the cult in bashing someone. I think you have enough dullards doing that don't you?


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:07:47
content:
  Maybe it's because the discussions are not ever really genuine? So it's impossible to have a discussion with nuance regarding Karel


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:08:58
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:10:37
content:
  if you say anything even slightly neutral you will introduce 2 mentors, a mod, and 3 patreon supporters/1k hour playtime users chiming in "but what about"


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:09:41
content:
  I was one of the first people complaining about the coin burn. If the devs in discord acted like they even halfway cared about the people who were buying NCR though, I'd probably be with them hating Karel.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:10:11
content:
  But instead, for whatever malicious reason, Froox dragged NCR holders into the middle for no reason whatsoever


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:21:44
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:22:29
content:
  I just feel like the team could do a lot more drastic things to keep the platform alive sometimes...


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:23:21
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:24:24
content:
  Tbh I check in from time to time and from any investors point of view its embarrassing like bickering children constant back and forth at this point I've wrote off my 9k not alot of money but enough to be like wtf is goig on here lol which is fine I took a chance on something I though was/could be/is gonna change the meta game but Jesus man this is the main tg group you are sent to from the website do yous seriously think that looks good take it off chat or make one called neos for fighting and go toe to toe in there.
  Anyway ill leave it at that thought I'd put my 2cents good luck everybody ✌


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:26:03
content:
  Even if you are not an investor, coming in here and seeing all this as a user... More or less the same thing.

  That being said, sorry to hear that the investment you had made did not go well. It's never a fun time when that happens regardless


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:28:37
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:29:06
content:
  I feel for the folk that actually play the game aswell I never got the chance ti try it out but it did look sick and could of took off.
  But like I said just fuckin hell man the fighting is maddening lol


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:34:27
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:39:15
content:
  Anyway guys and gals thats me said my piece as I said good luck to everyone and hopefully this shitshow gets sorted at somepoint 💪🙌✌


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:38:36
content:
  I don't think they should be timed out, I don't believe they're trolling either. But I beleive they are too emotionally charged with their arguments, which leads to impatience.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:39:42
content:
  I see it a lot in the conversations around crypto and the team situation. Where a lot of people are just too emotional to see it from any other perspective


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:47:55
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:49:11
content:
  The frustrating part about these sorts of discussions are just the like... I can agree or disagree with the suggestion of a marketing push. I can agree or disagree with NCR being sidelined. I can agree or disagree with the handling of the NCR burn, of how the strike (I am using this word, deal with my descriptivist ass) has been conducted, the impacts of announcements, the handling of onboarding, the new user experience. Like, these are valid and important conversations.

  But I've got to navigate that with people running apologetics for Karel. And I honestly believe he has done indefensible things to the point I could not in good faith argue to go forward with him. I really wish the other conversations were not so dependent on him.

  Like, 100% the only reason I don't argue for keeping NCR in the client out of respect for the people who invested in the platform is because I don't think Karel can be booted without booting NCR. Otherwise, yeah. I agree, removing NCR is doing folks dirty. I may disagree with the implementation, but as Orc has said we could change implementation details. But it's a bundle of politics, and watching friends break down, and trying to weigh that visceral emotional data with a desire to be fair to the whole community.

  It's hard. Harder when I see 'the other side' (quoted for untruth) be personally insulting to people I respect and care for. Blarg. In any case, as much as I might disagree, or feel ideologically motivated/blinded, I still just want to help build better spaces for people. I hope I don't contribute too much to y'all's stress with my text walls.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:53:04
content:
  and well that's the other thing... When I read the issues, it seems like things people could put behind themselves, but then again we only have partial details


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:54:30
content:
  The short of it is, I believe the abuse claims, but not for the hyperbolic claims of slavery or anything. Just the same quet toxicity that I've seen happen to too many friends and am admittedly hypersensitive to.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:54:42
content:
  my take? Since there is the buyback program... just do a larger one to buy back if things did close down. Offer a long period of time on return, at a reasoanble rate, or offer to still allow imports into Neos itself with the exchange going to storage space, as we have it now. This way, people can at least get a return, and if they did buy for use internally with already functioning systems, they can do so before the plug is fully pulled.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:56:17
content:
  This is probably why many align with Karel. It's that they have a bunch of hostile voices chiming in with really ill-conceived suggestions about what should be their fate... without actually listening to what those people want.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:56:25
content:
  And for this one... I'm a bit skeptical, but I think I can see it in a light that makes more sense with the same narrative, based on experiences friends of mine have had. I won't go into them, but I'm not defending against what had happened, since I wasn't there and I don't know the involving parties enough to make individual judgement calls


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:58:46
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:59:01
content:
  Actually worse than not listening to those people. Treating them with contempt. Meanwhile the cofounder has a clear message of defending those people. And TBH I never really see people defending him as much as I see people saying across the pond


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:58:54
edit_date: 2022-07-31 01:59:26
content:
  They need something to give Karel. NCR seems their best bet. I'd genuinely prefer they kept it and brought on someone to manage it as a currency. I honestly like the in game ledger with the option to offramp to a independant wallet. Would allow some limited buyer protections in game.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 01:59:09
content:
  The problem is... there really isn't a happy medium solution to all.
  Right now, as it stands, the current 'party' wants NCR gone, which means a full cut off and no grace offered at all. The other 'party' wishes to push more into something that the other party has voiced concerns over preventing new user engagement and due to dislike of the systems as a whole (and considering the current events, we're seeing a lot of that being demonstrated), thus turning the platform into something they feel is against the spirit of the platform's initial roots.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:00:36
content:
  Because they are malicious. They've spent months on Twitter getting emotionally invested in hating cryptobros and nfts and stuff and now they have an oppertunity to hurt those people and they really want to see it followed through


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:02:18
edit_date: 2022-07-31 02:06:43
content:
  I asked because it seemed like the devs were completely ignorant to the fact they could fork the chain and take control of their own NCR and protect those people. The original reason to remove NCR was because "Karel has the keys"


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:02:41
content:
  I used to just hold a neutral opinion, given I had received personal assistance when something had gone wrong and after having talked about previous ventures we had both knew about and had involvement with. However, it's become increasingly difficult to defend given the circumstances and actions taken (or lack there of). As a person to talk to, I feel they were alright, and I have no evidence to me personally where this isn't true. But I cannot claim the same in other forms, and that does sway my opinion and outlook


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:34:01
content:
  They'd need to bring on someone who understands and has an interest in working in that space if they went forward with NCR. I don't think any of the team are super interested in cryptocurrencies. I know they are interested in decentralized systems, but you're not wrong in that a lot of the people around them are soured to cryptocurrencies and nfts. 

  From your perspective, I suppose this is a tossing the baby out with the bathwater scenario. I always wanted a re-work of NCR and was never enamored with it. But it was going to enable an open market, bypassed payment processor censorship (looking at you paypal) and so I was willing to work with it.

  But now it just feels like a lot of frustrating baggage and it's not even doing anything but sitting there. The most I've done with it is give out storage to new users who already managed to blow through the initial 1gb. It's hard to even grudgingly accept it, except as a fairness hedge. 

  I think an honestly fair solution would be to let a crypto team take over NCR running as is and let them focus on making NCR a slick transaction experience. Transparent fiat exchange, let people engage as much or as little with independant wallets as they want. Just get the product to the point it could support one click purchases from a credit card/paypall acount or existing NCR ballence. Take all that off the team's plate while they develop the core product.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:50:55
content:
  This community really likes to actively create a scenario and then point to its outcome as if it was predetermined


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:53:20
content:
  and no, I'm against the whole third party mod thing. That's a joke. I mean, it would be a joke if it wasn't you trying to convince those affected to noose themselves


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 02:55:04
edit_date: 2022-07-31 02:55:31
content:
  Maybe I believe in like, I dunno, helping those who put their money into it? I guess that's a weird stance to take to you? Maybe you have to be brainwashed by an angry community to see that as the wrong stance to take


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 03:05:31
content:
  Yeah, that's my exact dilemma atm. Haven't got a clue what to put, but I'm willing to pay them too for that


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 03:17:44
content:
  I don't know if the plugin thing is viable. The way it was initially explained to me was that they would basically be publishing a payment processor API and letting NCR be one of those options. I figured that would be viable given NCR has an established install base on the platform. But on further explanation i am of the opinion that the plugin route does too much to segment the playbase. I'd still supoort third party NCR, e.g. NCR acts as the payment processor for Neos and has a contract guaranteeing that relationship with certain deliverables as riders (aforementioned fiat transparency would be a big one IMO.)


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 03:29:24
content:
  Stop pushing the third party/API narrative as if it was anything but a convenient way to shunt off all NCR users while maintaining some illusion of moral defensibility. No one buys it except the discord dick riders.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 04:38:17
content:
  whoops, completely forgot about that. No I didn't. I've already got my tax return, so we'll see if anything happens in the future. If so, it'll be miniscule anyways.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 04:44:28
content:
  anyone know the NCR rewards for:
  The Curator (Jan 2021-Feb 2021)
  Virtual Canid (Mar 2021-Jun 2021)
  Architect (Jul 2021-Oct 2021)
  Clifford (Nov 2021-Feb-2022)


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 04:59:59
content:
  Black magic maths time. I have a few screenshots here and there of my dash with my NCR balance visible, maybe I can use fancy algebra. I know the total must be 5NCR less than what I transferred to my account because I won a bet


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 05:09:16
edit_date: 2022-07-31 15:49:10
content:
  Finally spending time making a world, it's kind of hard to do cuz I'm modeling it from scratch but tbh I'm glad with how its turning out so far


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 15:56:05
content:
  Thanks :) I've checkout out Neos ~1 year ago, as a cooler  VRChat alternative, I had no idea it went through an ICO and then all that drama


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:26:02
content:
  More or less this. just when we are given an opportunity to actually get more users onboard and move forward, current events prevent from fully capitalizing on the situation


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:31:15
content:
  Don’t spread misinformation. Neos still has at least $3M (publicly verifiable on ethereum) and I probably a lot more since quite a bit was cashed out in the past


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:31:19
content:
  It's debatable. If you were wanting on a feature from an update, then yeah, maybe not yet, to be honest. If it's due to concerns with attendance, that has greatly changed.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:37:17
content:
  And they are striking for still unclear reasons.

  Imo they are very emotional and feel threatened by Karels vision of Neos


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:39:02
edit_date: 2022-07-31 16:39:39
content:
  >There was never proper foundational paperwork drafted including contractor agreements or intellectual property ownership. The original LTD agreement was a 50/50 split between the CEO and CTO meaning any irreconcilable feud would end in a deadlock.

  >Frooxius brought in a group of volunteers who were all furry friends and have known each other for years across several platforms like Second Life and IRL fur conventions.

  >After Meta made their announcement in October of last year, NCR benefitted from being at the intersection of blockchain and metaverse, causing it to run to $10 with a market cap close to 500 million USD. The volunteers pushed back at the crypto connection in an attempt to minimize Karel's involvement in the project even though a lot of them financially benefitted from it.

  >Without proper foundational paperwork, the company (And Frooxius himself) cracked under pressure and the volunteers - spear-headed by Geenz somehow thought that they could successfully stage a coup against Karel over disagreements about his management style. Some of these were legitimate (For example pay - however much they claim otherwise) and others were a clear attempt at running the non-furry out of his own company.

  >This didn’t work because a bunch of non-contracted volunteers trying to cancel somebody out of their own company Twitter style isn’t how the real world works.

  So here we are 8-9 months later with a deadlocked platform, new users joining from VRC who aren’t remotely aware of how deeply broken this project and company is, and a bunch of burned investors.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:41:44
content:
  That’s not how math works my guy. Obviously there will be an influx in concurrent users when they first all join in one go


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:49:17
edit_date: 2022-07-31 16:50:10
content:
  I was one of the more outspoken supporters of Neos last year and really believed in this project, enough that Karel invited me to be on the user board of advisors which gave me a front row seat to watching all of this happen. The furries are upset that I called them out and didn't take their side, so they're pulling out all of the typical character assassination tricks to try and invalidate my opinions.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:52:10
edit_date: 2022-08-01 03:52:38
content:
  My involvement in the fandom gives me a lot of insight as to how furries operate. If anything that just supports my claims.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:53:52
content:
  I'm old and have been in the fandom since the days of Usenet. I've seen it all including how furries weaponize social ostracization to the point of it being an artform.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:54:53
edit_date: 2022-07-31 16:55:03
content:
  If you need any proof just look at the icons of the people pushing back at my observations in this chat right now. I think that speaks for itself.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 16:59:00
edit_date: 2022-07-31 17:10:56
content:
  So each side (CEO/CTO) feels like they have brought more value to the platform (the money/the code), so they do not feel like splitting it would be fair, is that something you could say?


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 17:12:37
edit_date: 2022-07-31 17:15:24
content:
  speaking of, there is a pretty good new playermade system for big worlds that simplifies avatars by distance. Extremly nice. Granted, the 30 people world also had that 20 fps experience, but it was still pretty amazing because noone had an optimized char


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 17:15:14
content:
  yea, but to be fair i tried it in two worlds and i could not get it to work, but i saw it in action and it was amazing


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 17:15:22
edit_date: 2022-07-31 17:15:56
content:
  People came to the Telegram because it was literally impossible to have a good faith discussion in the discord. People were seriously accusing Karel of enslaving Froox; anyone remotely pro NCR was getting clown emojis on every single post for quite some time; mods locked threads and others opening threads about removing NCR; etc. 

  Many of us were in the discord for weeks before finally moving on to Telegram, then got chased by discord into the original Telegram channel where it became another furry echo chamber before finally ending up here.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 18:10:03
edit_date: 2022-07-31 18:18:40
content:
  I just made 11 bnb with @GemFinder100X I know its not insane but I 24x which is pretty wild to me. Could we get them to call our project?


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 18:28:13
edit_date: 2022-07-31 19:35:04
content:
  xLinka and Tekno have worked out a really slick version of the avatar culling system that combines a customizable audio falloff. I need to grab that off them sometime.


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 18:48:07
edit_date: 2022-07-31 18:51:00
content:
  Why don't you just leave this channel already and play in VRC then?  Why keep trying to spark drama?


type: message
date: 2022-07-31 19:20:28
content:
  I'm actually doing it in a combination of Autodesk Inventor + Blender to clean up the model get rid of unneeded geometry, and clean up useless faces, as well aa material assigning and uv mapping!


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 00:08:24
content:
  The other thing is that most things like simple animations can be more easily carried over from one avatar to another now that I think about it. In Unity, this usually involves whipping out a text editor to manually rename the addressing bones or components. In Neos, just drag and drop.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:10:26
content:
  i mean, depends on what you're doing. Unity has many points where you have to completely re-import your avatar for changes and re-do all the work step by step, usually you dont need to with bases which have unitypackages, and people maintaining them, but when you have a custom avatar its an issue


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:13:17
content:
  i mean, depends, 90% of the time its quickly transferable, atleast in my cases its never not been transferable with 0 edits or a couple quick edits


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:26:41
content:
  That's more or less what I do. If I have to redo any logix, it's usually because I'm not happy with the previous outcome or found out something that can do the job better. Otherwise, I've transferred logix stuff to all sorts of avatars with minimal difficulty.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:29:35
content:
  never said it was, but the same process is equally as long within Unity when starting from scratch, as I mentioned.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:29:37
content:
  dang, i ported someones avatar in like 30 minutes the other day and they were shocked how easy it was


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:30:19
content:
  Depending on how drastic the changes are you can use the rig transfer tip to automagicly transfer most stuff. There is also a Logix transfer tool, but I've honestly never seen it work XD. But yeah, you need to build with an eye towards modularity to guarantee a generic solution.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:30:39
content:
  was about to say: only time I ever approach multiple hours is only if I run into an import issue (mostly because the creator didn't follow naming conventions even Unity uses) or if I'm doing final touches on stuff.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:32:22
content:
  strange, for me the pain point for everyone ive introduced was how hard it was to get used to, the ui, and lack of concise learning materials, not avatar creation


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:33:30
content:
  I beg to differ. Tail wagging, for example, can just be one single object with all the components and settings stored within. At that point, it's drag and drop. Same goes for menu components and many others. But then again, creators do this same thing on SL, where they have templates for various functions and features, and just re-use it when needed. Same goes for everything else.
  Eventually, even custom things have the same baseline humanoid skeleton, and the rules still apply.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:33:43
content:
  to be honest, i personally feel that neos method of avatar creation is 100% better than it is in unity and such

  there is just poor learning material by default


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:35:14
content:
  They need a huge rework themselves, especially when theres inconsistencies between the Quest and PC Version of vrchat that aren't documented at all


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:35:35
content:
  I would, but there's poor documentation on the VRChat specific things that you won't learn by knowing unity


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:35:46
content:
  I'll agree to this. It kind of shocks me how much Unity can be janky at times, but at other times seems to come up with happy accidents that end up breaking in a way that actually is useful


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:36:46
edit_date: 2022-08-01 01:37:15
content:
  i've had a friend be super confused helping me when theyve been working in unity for years as their job, because of the VRChat specific components, and complaining about lack of documentation

  The only way I figured out some things was by asking, same as with NEOS.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:37:13
content:
  I mean, yes and no. Stuff like inconsistencies, things that you cannot just learn by messing around unless you wanna take like 2 days nonstop uploading and re-testing, etc, really need documentation


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:39:20
content:
  something that's really annoyed me with NEOS documentation, for instance, is Complex Types, on the wiki you're kind of just told to experiment around, but man it took forever for me to find out that for a StaticFont, the complex type is IAssetProvider`[FrooxEngine.FontSet]


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:40:14
content:
  which, granted its also listed on the wiki, makes sense if you just... put things after FrooxEngine.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:41:46
content:
  This one I did run into as an issue one night. I was able to figure out eventually, but that was fairly confusing.
  What's more: I'm more confused that there is no way to quickly 'recall' previously used 'custom' types. If I used a float?, then why can't I just reuse it again?


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:43:35
content:
  like, i shouldnt have to type out material, its a common thing people would use for ReferenceMultiDriver


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 01:46:30
content:
  Oh yeah, I assume the UX update will overhaul alot  and hopefully it'll solve many of the issues people have


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 02:06:54
content:
  Though as a note for people trying to build their avatars in a way that will allow for easy transplanting in the future, the DynamicBlendShapeDriver component helps signifigently. You can throw it on your system and have it hook into a skinned mesh renderer to basically break the hard dependency on blend shape references as long as they are named the same.


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 14:15:34
edit_date: 2022-08-01 14:16:22
content:
  I had my first experience of creating an avatar this weekend and was surprised how quick and easy it was, and left me wanting to learn more.  

  I customised in readyplayerme downloaded the glb file, opened it in neos and used the avatar calibration tool.  

  I know I’m only scratching the surface but having a personalised avatar in-world in less than 30mins was cool!


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 15:53:37
content:
  Also,  redprint comments are not actual part of the "code" that executed (if you can call logix code)


type: message
date: 2022-08-01 17:15:39
edit_date: 2022-08-01 17:16:15
content:
  Have you guys ever tried a signal channel? I recommend @GemFinder100X they made me 14 BNB in the past 3 weeks.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 01:16:51
content:
  Well the thing I heard, not from the Discord, but from a guy I spoke to is that ETH is traded for NCR, but not the other way around.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 01:21:08
content:
  It is an ERC-20 token. It has the same limitations as other ERC-20 tokens, you do still need to have ETH to cover the gas fees, etc, but it is definitely tradeable. There is an in game managed ledger that ballences have to be manually processed in and out of if you want to use your balance on platform for native player tipping and storage purchases, but that's about it in terms of funkiness when using NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 05:49:44
content:
  i got used to seeing like certain pathetic sorts trying to convince users of all sorts of ncr related stuff


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 12:21:42
content:
  No I meant I was told that ETH can be traded for NCR but you can't trade NCR for ETH. Or you know, cash in the NCR for anything


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 12:23:16
content:
  That might be a misconception about minting, where you can only get NCR for ETH, but that'd be a really bad exchange right now


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 12:23:18
content:
  Ah ok, thought so. Be weary of anyone telling you stuff like that, or that NCR is being removed, or that NCR has no value, other lies meant to financially hurt you


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 12:26:51
content:
  do mind though: Don't send NCR to the minting address, you won't get ETH or anything back. And infact don't mint NCR, you can get it much cheaper from Uniswap


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 12:28:05
content:
  I don't like posting the exact price incase it bothers someone. It can be abit stress inducing to some in this community


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:07:29
content:
  the difference being chillout was not on the radar and now it's a direct competitor in terms of usercount


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:09:46
content:
  That isn't surprising. ChilloutVR is just VRChat with a different name, mostly. Its vastly easier, doesn't have much complicated featurs or environment


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:10:36
content:
  Also wierd is the extreme inconsistency of Chillouts daily up and down o. o
  Thats suggesting that they have a lot of server issues?


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:12:01
edit_date: 2022-08-02 20:30:51
content:
  imagine if the last 8 months Neos was being worked on and stuff, then was prepared to answer the call of fate instead of failing (again)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:14:07
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:15:01
content:
  And Neos instantly upped their infrastructure on aws when the spike happend to keep up with all the new users.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:15:21
content:
  The dispute can only end two ways. One is that its an hostile overtake, but the devs would go and probably create a similar piece of software with a new name


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:17:02
content:
  So if the people involved have any sense, the second will happen. But until it does, nothing moves, for obvious reason


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:19:56
content:
  Also thats the beauty on aws... its a cloud infrastructure. Its designed to be scaleable in that way


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:22:24
content:
  hmm... yea you right, its azure based, i too the wrong hint but same goes for that too.. same thing really


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:22:31
edit_date: 2022-08-02 20:35:14
content:
  its not a hostile takeover, thats giving it too much credit. it's a childish fued about comfort and attitude being off


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:23:20
content:
  i never said that a hostile takeover will happen, i just say that it would be nonsense to patch into a system you are not sure could be taken from you


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:25:54
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:26:14
content:
  First of all, at the 100000$ thing, it was already in a dispute internally, it was mostly caused due to crypto spiking and NCR was given out for way under minting and exchange prices through the patreon. 
  Also we never really know what happend to that money aswell.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:28:27
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:32:47
content:
  Honestly all that matters is that VRChat isn't the only titan in the space. Having multiple spaces competing is great.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:28:30
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:31:04
content:
  Neos was given two undue golden opportunities and passed them up. I guess it was more important to be comfy and dab on your funders to make neet furs happy (but not happy enough to play your game)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:29:35
content:
  What golden opportunity... the ncr spike pretty much created the issues. And no, i don't want to start a discussion if crypto currency is good or bad, but its a fact that it is pretty much the reason why everything is now frozen in place


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:31:57
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:32:17
content:
  its not cash, its a resource... and all the theoretical cash you may or may not have is like a networth... its good to have but (as seen) can be gone as quickly. And yea, money creates issues, as seen, its not always helpful, expecially not at the wrong time (while alpha development)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:33:09
content:
  too much money.. hmmm I dunno I think in thr right hands, brilliant people do amazing things with that kinda capital


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:35:00
content:
  I think crypto currency is worth talking about, BUT its not money, never pretend that it is. Its a resource. Like shiny rocks... can be diamonds, can be glass but in the end its just something you trade with


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:35:08
edit_date: 2022-08-02 20:45:59
content:
  Imagine not having 1 or 2 toxic employees convincing a weakwilled cto to toss aside a fated golden oopertunity just to make them feel like they won an argument


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:38:26
content:
  Its a trade... i do think crypto currencys are something that obviously is good and required, but it is a commodity. If you try to convert all of the crypto currency that neos has into cash right now, you would see that immediatly after 1-2% there is no more need for this product


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:41:21
content:
  If your way to lead a discussion is based on personal attacks, perhaps you are the boss baby here ;)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:42:42
content:
  I've noticed that every Neos chat that's in any way involved in NCR is an absolute mess of Cryptobros vs. Furries lol


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:45:29
content:
  I don't think NCR is currently a problem, one way or the other. Its worth is pretty much at a good point, relativ to the users and interest. It has no actual negativ or positiv impact on neos currently


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:47:00
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:47:37
content:
  I'd argue that with how much bad press crypto has been generating for the last ~2 years, the mere association to crypto (and the "metaverse" term and NFTs) has actually put off a lot of people who will just outright refuse to touch anything semi-related to crypto. I've had so many friends refuse to play Neos because at first they see the NCR and are put off by that alone.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:47:58
content:
  That is true, at least the people that came to neos in the last days asked a lot about that and often didn't get into the game because its somehow connected to NFT's or crypto


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:48:30
edit_date: 2022-08-02 21:47:40
content:
  But yea, could be because of the way the neos webpage currently looks like, its pretty... lets say NCR/crypto positiv :D


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:48:58
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:50:13
content:
  Crypto seemed like a good call for Neos when NCR launched in like 2018 but after the blockchain/crypto boom that happened, people absolutely vilify crypto and having ties to it and the metaverse gives a bad first impression. Thing is, Neos was associating with crypto and metaverse well before they gained so much bad rep so it's not even the Neos' team's fault, just their misfortune.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:50:37
content:
  I mean with that i was a lot in the help channel of neos and a lot of questions came from that side "does neos do crypto-calculations on my computer" "do i need to mine crypto for this game" "is ncr required for using neos"


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:51:27
content:
  It was not usually about actual issues of neos with crypto currency, but people having wrong ideas about neos


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:51:41
edit_date: 2022-08-02 17:51:58
content:
  NCR seems cool, it's neat to have an in-game currency that's not just an in-game currency, but there's no real use for it. People will just use Gumroad or Paypal direct transfers or anything else if they want to make money making content for VR social platforms. *NCR was made to solve the problem of consumer-to-creator transactions but realistically, what person making their living off commission work is gonna put their faith into an unstable cryptocurrency that could plummet at any moment, or what consumer would want to spend a resource that could triple in value at any moment?


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:53:17
content:
  Yeah, it wasn't, but now that cryptocurrency has gone from decentralized, user-to-user transactions to a financial investment, the use for it and the environment it operates in is totally different.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:53:53
content:
  I have to say that is actual a valid problem. I like the idea of NCR as ingame trading resource, but at the same time its fluctuations would make it less useful then a token-system of any other kind. But it does secure that the creators of neos can't create currency from thin air... like wow-gold or any other virtual unprotected resource, and it can be traded freely


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:55:07
content:
  I guess the assumption is that it would find stabilityz but to also be at peace with the fact of fluctuating market prices. In its early phase now? It's very much something to speculate on or hold because you love Neos (and thats okay)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:55:31
content:
  Right now, with crypto being treated as a financial investment rather than a usable currency, there's no reliability in it as a currency. If you had 10 NCR that was worth $10 today, but you knew there was the possibility for it to turn into $100 at any moment, why would you actually use the currency as a currency? It's not like other currencies where fluctuations tend to be a few cents tops. A crypto can swing high or low at any moment and that naturally pushes people to hoard, not spend.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:57:20
content:
  Well obviously it's become a problem because nobody is actually using the currency as a currency. The only people I see concerned with NCR are people who don't play Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:58:15
content:
  Nobody is using it as a currency because people making their living off commissions or art in general don't wanna stake their livelihood on the health of internet funny money


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 17:59:35
content:
  NCR was used plenty within Neos as far as tipping people... But I think we've all known from the start that NCR's value is, frankly, as valuable as people's collectivr imagination of how far Neos will go


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:00:05
content:
  I've been playing since January 4 of this year and honest to god have seen NCR used once. Besides that, the only place I've ever seen actively accepting NCR was Elysium. That's literally it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:00:20
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:00:26
content:
  people would use ncr if there was a marketplace to buy and sell things for ncr. with automatic transactions. but those systems were halted


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:02:08
content:
  I will never stop laughing about the Starcraft 2 tournament where the 1st place prize was like $500 and the 5th to 8th place prize was 25 BTC


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:02:54
content:
  Stability, ability to quickly use it for paying your rent or for food (acceptance) and the ability to quickly change hands safely


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:03:04
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:03:33
content:
  it depends. Its a hell of alot easiee for me to sebd crypto to friends in foreign countries than deal with various payment processors. And certain things like when I buy (legal) pharmacuticals frok foreign countries. crypto is pretty much my only option. I use it atleast once a week.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:04:35
content:
  NCR going from $0.32 at the start of Nov 21, spiking to ~$9.00 in Dec 21, then crashing back to $0.25 at the beginning of March 22 is nowhere near comparable to this lol


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:05:12
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:05:35
content:
  I feel like that needs no comment, but yea, it is also an unusual extrem change. Still, crypto IS usually volatile, so..


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:05:41
content:
  If a currency multiplies 30x in a matter of 2 months, how in the world are you supposed to have confidence in using it to buy something?


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:06:25
content:
  NCRs primary function, and what it honestly served startlingly well, was to raise cspital for Neos. It fulfilled its part of thr bargain and many of us were happy to have it because we believed in Neos (and some still so) and becsuse it was an oppertunity to put money into something you also invested your imagination into. I understsnd there will always be people who dont understand or fight agsinst that perspective, just like there's people who cant get why someone would buy spaceships in Star Citizen.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:06:59
content:
  Yep, this. If NCR had remained "We just need funding, here's a little bonus" I genuinely think it would have gone over so much better.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:07:37
content:
  I am happy to get NCR for the patreon... well currently the patron isn't really near what you would expect to get in NCR but i found it fun having a token in my hand that i know will get worth way more IF neos succeedes


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:07:57
content:
  Its like having a part of the success of Neos... but it does not make it a good currency to pay each other sadly


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:08:33
content:
  Neos was getting slammed and threatened by its own devs. Like, lets not be disingenuous here and pretend this is a crypro-inherent outcome. Look at something like MANA (decentraland's coin) and see how its weathered a depressed market roughly 10x better


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:10:55
content:
  We talked about the "doing nothing" part already i think.. you would not go pay into a bankaccount you are not 100% sure you own anymore, even when you did think before its yours


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:11:45
content:
  Sometimes I think of the whole crapstorm that coulda been avoided if Neos just never got involved with crypto.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:11:52
content:
  It... did. It was being sold like that all along and also promised to interact with a store. Its when crypto became a bad word among bored twitter furs and neets that it spooked the weakwilled devs into threatening to remove it, which cratered the price.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:11:56
content:
  The possiblity of hostile takeover. If the 2 people most in charge have a clinch over the ownership of neos, the programmers would be stupid to patch more featurs in into a software they could lose


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:12:43
content:
  "and also promised to interact with a store." that's what I'm saying, it shouldn't have been that. It should have literally ONLY been "We need money, here's something in return, do what you want but we have no promises."


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:14:48
content:
  thats the dumbest pitch I've ever heard. What is inherently wrong with Neos having a store and native currency? Other than youve got twitter brainworms that crypto is a political word to you now


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:15:01
content:
  Yes, so if he wants 100% control of the software, he would be stupid to feed in more worth into a product he wants to take control over


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:15:19
content:
  What's wrong is saying "Here's a currency for a store that doesn't exist" and tying the company down to implementing this thing "at some point"


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:16:35
content:
  I am pretty sure you did something in your life as a child you regretted... doesn't really make you an idiot... i mean... not THAT


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:17:00
content:
  Neos prollu wouldnt exist right now. There is. full stop. NOTHING wrong with the ICO's premise. We were very happy to own NCR and feel happy with imagining what we would do in a future store. And Neos was happy to get the money


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:17:17
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:17:34
content:
  Many years ago he made a company with his friend... now they are no longer friends... pretty much the story


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:18:18
content:
  Stop like, sidestepping it and trying so desperately to make it about crypto because you can't wrap your mind around the series of events that led us to this point


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:19:11
content:
  and crypto is just a fucking asset. Being a crypto doesnt give it magical properties. like wtf. If something has price swings that means its fucking illiquid (AND USUALLY THAT MEANS ITS UNDERVALUED)


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:23:00
content:
  As mentioned earlier, any Neos chat that has NCR mentioned in the name is gonna have these around the clock lol


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:23:05
edit_date: 2022-08-02 22:43:54
content:
  fact is NCR fulfilled its role in raising an obscene amount of cash for the platform. Its the human failings of the team that failed to capitalized on it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:27:33
content:
  Like I said, Neos got unlucky. They started up NCR during a time where crypto had a net neutral public perception but then crypto quickly generated heat in 2021.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:29:25
content:
  Like they just had to get along. Furs on twitter were going to get bored of complaining about crypto as a hot button issue in short order


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:30:18
edit_date: 2022-08-02 22:44:45
content:
  Like, unless youre just incredibly weakwilled and can't go without every furry avatar praising you in discord for 5 minutes, there's no reason to panic


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:31:42
content:
  no, it just became a very furry thing. Probably because furries are always online, are attracted to drama.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:31:51
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:36:51
content:
  Orc missed the part where we were delisted from steam because of the public perception of cryptocurrencies apparently.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:33:34
content:
  and not because of the public perception. Dont pretend to work for Valve (unless you do). They clearly did it to cover their asses from regulation


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:38:46
content:
  Meanwhile, discord got flooded with VRC fanboys after the removal to basically rub salt on the wound, because of course they can.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:41:27
content:
  Maybe everyone was in a frazzled state and that's why they made a series of incredibly weird decisions


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:41:42
edit_date: 2022-08-02 18:43:40
content:
  This is me being nice. I'm genuinely sorry that you are having something you care about get dragged through the dirt in the discourse.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:44:04
content:
  well I believe you here, though I don't want to be the guy who cares so much about such a thing, so much as I get discouraged when I perceive an unfair situation or widespread misunderstandings going unchallenged


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:45:26
content:
  Or a combination of both when I see so much undue agression over something I think is pretty mundane and also code, which I dont think believing in a type of code or style of computing should be considered controversial...


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:50:05
content:
  Anything with the potential for meaningful systemic change is going to be controversial. Doesn't really matter what change it is.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 18:53:45
content:
  and I'd be ok with that being a spectacular failure on its own honestly, but not for it being misunderstood


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:10:46
content:
  I don't have a massive attachment to it being understood. If it's useful then it's useful. Though I would rather the community's investment not get deleted. I'd like to see NCR usable, but at least to me that means taking it out of the spotlight.

  I mentioned this before, but I'd ideally like to see us operating an exchange for the (future) store. I don't think it would be a hard sell to transition NCR to a more backend technology. Minimize the casual user's risk exposure by using it as a momentary intermediary between whatever preferred currency pairs the parties have selected. That also minimizes the backlash of having a cryptocurrency price graph front and center, which I genuinely believe is liability for adoption given the current discourse in games media.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:14:00
content:
  yeah, even I've been in favor of changing the front facing image ti be less crypto, atleast for a good while


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:15:34
content:
  Yea, that would be good... AND it would be good to redesign the website as well, but thats pretty much all only possible the moment the actual issue is solved, one way or another.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:16:30
content:
  I dont get whats wrong with thr website itself, just the way NCR is pimped out on it isn't appropriate


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:18:04
content:
  Well, Neos Credits is the first menu point. Fair enough that you have to scroll down for the explaination, but the big neos picture has the big "N" of Neos Credits as the core of the first full-broad picture


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:18:25
content:
  Its hard to deemphasize it when there's an open movement to remove it with certain devs, so any concession feels like it's yielding to that


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:21:02
content:
  Everything we talk about is pretty much nonsense anyway, as long as the future for neos is not clear and finally decided. It doesn't really matter what the outcome is, as long as there is a decission. And sure, the NAME neos may then change but at least it would go forward. Nothing is as damaging as a non-decission


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:21:08
edit_date: 2022-08-03 00:52:46
content:
  well if it's not seen as an attack on its existence, I think speaking to Andrea would go far in conveying you just dont want to scare off new users


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:22:48
content:
  My biggest issue with the website is that it doesn't really work right. The lack of flexibility in the website builder tool resulting in 404ing after successful account creation is annoying to have to explain.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:27:41
content:
  thats mostly what I would hear about Neos, that it has potential, that someday it could compete with VRChat


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:33:36
edit_date: 2022-08-03 00:54:53
content:
  mmhmm. Neos has clear priorities like the ability to manipulate another's avatar in ways other designers would worry about


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:34:42
content:
  I dont think anything geenz says is real though. He is always defending some narrative and then at times seems completely out of the loop


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:36:24
content:
  of like big things. Im not sure but it seemed like he had no idea what rothenburg ventures was until just recently


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:42:22
content:
  and I only took note of that because he's always yapping sy people telling them what to think like an authority, but it lookd weird in addition to everything. He constantly is stirring shit while not knowing what is going on around him.


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 19:44:52
content:
  the salary he demanded shows someone completely out of touch with the situation he's forcing us all in


type: message
date: 2022-08-02 20:10:17
content:
  Yeah I wanted to ask, is there a way to lock people from altering my avatar so that only I can alter it?


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 00:56:10
content:
  A 600k sub VR specific youtuber is going to be releasing a video completely dedicated to Neos soon.

  What a God damn fucking shame the golden goose is already dead.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 01:32:56
content:
  Something people need to realize is that when a bunch of people jump onto a game or exposed to it suddenly, retention is going to be extremely low. I'd say of all the people that see a really big video like that or of all the people that hopped on Neos after VRC, maybe 15% of people will stay.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 01:47:37
content:
  gained insane market dominance that established as effectively the only one in the vr social space race


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 02:30:23
content:
  I wander if his presence went under the radar. Or if he mentioned he was a youtuber and then got the red carpet treatment.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 02:36:11
content:
  I wonder if he will get into the neos politics at all in his video. If he went under the radar then he might have gotten a more balanced view of things.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 02:44:45
content:
  I don't understand the migration in general. VRC is working overtime right now to bring all the features that were lost from banned modified clients.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 02:57:56
content:
  I dunno if the devs have approached him or not. they don't really seem the proactive type to do that, plus according to them they're not ready to do any marketing


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:05:58
content:
  when he was originally telling everyone to get upset about his pay, I thought there was somethimg of a legitimate claim possibly there


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:11:41
content:
  If you want to be hired by someone, you should do some basic research about them when expecting a job, it seems like Geenz did nothing of that sort as far as how the game maintains itself


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:13:46
content:
  They seemed to not know anything about the history of Neos or either founder's involvement, despite constantly telling others what to think


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:14:32
edit_date: 2022-08-03 03:17:11
content:
  everything points to this being a really stupid, personal fued and it's really dumb that Froox didnt have the stuff to just stop it


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:16:04
content:
  Ive lost almost all respect for him after reading a 2016 blogpost where he was going on about how no one would fund him and set him up an environment to just code... then to see him years later treat his funders as a disposibpd nuisance is just pathetic


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:23:14
content:
  it boggles my mind the aggression toward the notion that people bought NCR expecting a profit. "you wanted a profit" is said as an insult there but it shows the weird entitled behavior youre able to articulate because I hardly can. I hate using the word "entitled" but I dont know what else to call it


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:24:42
content:
  its a lesson on trust, but teaches me how a colleague can bolster bodies against you, and more thsn that how destructive hugbox's can be


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:25:30
edit_date: 2022-08-03 04:07:35
content:
  I think Karel sees himself as existing to make Neos a successful company/product, and Froox sees Neos as existing to provide him the lifestyle he wants


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:26:55
content:
  actually, Im making alot of assumptikns about karel, Ill actuslly admit that. Maybe he just wants profit but that still aligns with Neos being successful, but his actions seem to say he emotionally gives a fuck


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:32:36
content:
  yeah, maybe so. Like a big drop of cash came slamming into them at the worst time it seemed, so although I think MOST groups would have utilized it well enough,maybe that binkiefur had a point in that money can fuck things up


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:33:28
content:
  lesson is to be prepared for unexpected good to happen. It seems everyone thought the world would stand still and wait for them or progress at their snail pace


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:37:16
content:
  they like to talk about it like "we dont get this weird thing that gave us lotsa money" *waving hands around*


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:37:54
content:
  but in November it seemed like atleast Probable and some others were on board with some excitement about having funding


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:40:20
content:
  I guess, in a childish way. Like its OK to hear that from the community and nod and agree eith them to a degree... but you dont take that to heart and gimp yourself so that you can keep feeling like a good person


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 03:51:07
content:
  who knows, maybe 10 years from now youll be in a partnership and get to think of neos and avoid somethjng stupid


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 14:16:40
content:
  there is booming and there's booming. One is good, the other is bad. The good one has substantial value backed by something, the bad one is a bubble that pops at any time and has the price dropping


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 14:57:24
content:
  Tbh stopping buybacks now would be weird since now is the time for the momentum to shift and ncr to start moving upwards again


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 15:23:57
content:
  I guessed that. Also I don't think anyone would be against the good version. However I guess people assume the bad version, whenever someone wants it to go up (to the moon)


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 15:47:58
content:
  The issue is, with so much of the coin being owned by the creator... that does not look good at all for any crypto speculant. Thats a reason why a lot of whales jumped the ship too.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 16:27:08
content:
  Yes, that gives the creator the possibilities to stabilize the price and that makes it usable as a utility instead of a speculative coin


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 16:28:12
edit_date: 2022-08-03 16:28:55
content:
  Here's a sample of what can be built in Neos. If you have any questions or would like something similar, please let me know :) https://youtu.be/aokKhTgB1zI


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 20:26:51
content:
  Yes, a lot more use cases that can be supported with meaningful amounts over a longer periods of time. I think it's important for Neos itself to hold majority of the supply actually, considering how early metaverse space is


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 20:38:02
edit_date: 2022-08-03 20:39:35
content:
  I don't know what's going on in anyone's head, I just have to assume there's some sort of plan, I guess. I don't know if there's a desire to go another funding run with the NCR again in the future, or what is planned for it. If it's intended to be burned for the sake of current holders, or if its related to legal stuff..


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 20:42:38
edit_date: 2022-08-03 20:45:45
content:
  I think its possible NCR could get forked and/or wallet ownership relinquished to nother party, and I wonder if there's some sort of preparring to do anything like that


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 21:46:36
edit_date: 2022-08-03 22:56:40
content:
  People needing to sell their NCR have to rely on people buying it. It's not necessarily the best time to buy the token, especially considering the public perception and the direction that crypto is headed financially, to speak nothing of the company itself.

  There's an internal dispute and the token is itself a major part of that dispute, so it's really a gamble for anyone without insider information.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 22:06:21
content:
  well to be fair, by the time you wait for things to be super safe, the opportunity won't be the same


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 22:42:29
content:
  It's still a little different than speculating on if... An emergent technology will be successful, or a business will do very well. The outcome of NCR's value depends on both the state of crypto, which is currently unstable, and also on the result of legal and internal disputes of the company that controls the token.

  Since NCR may be ousted from neos in some scenarios, it's a big big gamble. It's all or nothing and that's a big risk. That's not even talking about whether or not neos succeeds past the legal dispute.


type: message
date: 2022-08-03 22:44:44
content:
  If you have a really good idea of how the legal dispute will play out because you know a lot about the law, and the court that will deal with it, then you'd probably have a better idea of whether or not the risk is worth taking.


type: message
date: 2022-08-04 09:46:55
edit_date: 2022-08-04 14:28:04
content:
  The insiders could make millions from this situation, fud and accumulate and flip the switch when crypto starts booming again


type: message
date: 2022-08-04 09:57:56
content:
  Hello everyone. I’ve been meaning to join for months, but here I am. Just introducing myself: I’m an actor based in South Africa, starring in The MetaMovie: “Alien Rescue”, a live theatre-like show in NeosVR. I am also the voice artist you can hear in the Neos world “Neos: The Universe”. Hope everyone is well.


type: message
date: 2022-08-04 10:34:47
content:
  Is this question for me? Alien Rescue  is an action/adventure theatre-movie happening in NeosVR, with live actors and paying participants. You get to shoot aliens and save some others. It can be comedic too, depending on the interactions we get from our guest players. We improv around what they give us.  Anyway, I know thus channel is about NCR, so don’t want to break any rules :)


type: message
date: 2022-08-04 10:36:21
edit_date: 2022-08-04 10:40:48
content:
  That's very cool, big respect. And no worries, I am sure the brief respite from the mountains of constant back-and-forth about Who Dunnit won't harm the quality of this channel.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 02:40:18
edit_date: 2022-08-05 08:31:30
content:
  Happy friday everyone! 😊 

  To make this channel more enjoyable place, we’ve created some simple chat rules that are effective as of today. 
  Please read these rules carefully as refusal to comply will result in a warning and three warnings will result in a 🚷permanent ban. 
  We are getting moderation help to assist with keeping the rules in place.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 02:41:03
edit_date: 2022-08-05 02:50:30
content:
  🚀Neos Metaverse - Neos Credits Telegram chat rules https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Telegram


  🔴 I'd like to especially stress that we won't tolerate insults, harassment, and abusive language towards any group member. By not following that rule you put yourself for an instant ban.✋

  🔴 Spreading FUD or misinformation about NCR is also not going to be tolerated as this group has been designed as a space where people can enjoy constructive and ideally intellectual debate about  Neos Metaverse and NCR.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 02:41:32
edit_date: 2022-08-05 02:46:50
content:
  And this is really just common sense but I feel it needs to be reminded:

  Please don't argue just for the sake of arguing (this includes posting memes or snarky comments that are meant to offend someone). People tend to get defensive when they are being attacked for what they say or do and then it's hard for them to hear what you're trying to say. 

  If someone says something you disagree with, try responding by asking clarifying questions first, rather than jumping into a straight argument.

  Please refrain from posting messages and content that is not related to Neos Metaverse or NCR. 
  Constantly bringing up drama, past situations or disputes is not appreciated so please take it elsewhere.

  And lastly please try to alleviate the strain on any current or future admins by respecting each other's opinions. 
  If you have a question, please try to use an appropriate #hashtag when you ask so we can help you more efficiently.

  🙏Let's work together to make this space a bit more pleasant so everyone feels welcome.

  Thank a lot and have a wonderful day!🌼


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 11:00:45
content:
  The CTO and CEO are negotiating a change in Neos due to disagreements. When this is resolved there will be announcements.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 11:38:19
content:
  i just hope they find a Solution that don't upset the community like vrchat, i just startet and i am loving neos as a game


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 11:53:20
edit_date: 2022-08-05 18:23:08
content:
  Hi @Der_TJ_Telegram , welcome to the Neos community and we are really glad that you enjoy the game so far. 😊


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:03:05
edit_date: 2022-08-05 12:05:08
content:
  https://twitter.com/KN28619919/status/1555485335492055040?s=20&t=mYulPhf14mVhPCdBk_PwdQ has anyone tried to toy around with Tilt Brush import into Neos? Some of their brushes are great, especially these that can interact with music. I think there is a great scope for similar tools in Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:04:33
content:
  Perhaps there are some already there, waiting to be discovered 😁 I am always amazed of what people are able to make. So much creativity❤️


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:34:49
edit_date: 2022-08-05 12:41:21
content:
  Ok, here is my first impression I had when I started with NEOS. 
  When I was on the NEOS site for the first time and saw the cryptocurrency I immediately thought of all the scams with crypto. Since I often hear only bad things about crypto in general. Except the big currencies like Bitcoin and Co, I just hope it does not continue. I have a super bad feeling about the NFT's. Since I have never heard of a good NFT.

  Also, I always worry that if real money or cryptocurrencies are in the game, that the game will turn into a pay to play. 

  I think the patron system is very good up to the 10€ patreon, everything else above it seems a bit pointless as far as the extra perks are concerned, except for the extended storage space, which is oke, like 2d/3d badges seem pointless because you can do something like that very easily ingame about names, an exit message? I'm just confused about what that's supposed to mean, I don't quite understand it, it just seems like you've run out of ideas and you're trying to think of something afterward. In my opinion, groups should be much earlier or completely free of charge and usable for every player, but possibly without memory.

  I wouldn't mind implementing some kind of storage subscription system directly into the game or the possibility of renting some kind of server for sessions as an alternative to the patron.
  As an example: €1.99 = 2GB of memory and 2 simultaneous sessions that do not run on your own computer but on the server. How exactly that should look like I don't want to make it a topic here because it also depends on server performance and costs. that's just an example


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:43:26
content:
  WTF what is your problem PLEAS read carfuly i never mentint anything about hating the nrc or fuking neos wtf


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:44:59
content:
  is just said i dont like them because i hear aloot of bad things about them if ncr is a dood currency i have no problem with it


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:46:00
content:
  NCR is Neo's native crypto. There's many that want to have it removed because they say it gives a bad impression and should be removed, and your take validates their concerns (and is valid feedback)


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:50:05
content:
  if you play on Steam, you can't even interact with it. If you play the standalone client, you can use NCR but it's function ingame is just something you can give to people (like a tip)


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:51:09
content:
  okey but if its is disabelt in steam and ther is no normal donlod on the neos webside how can i aktivate it?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:53:08
content:
  At the moment, you can pay people with it for goods and services or buy/gift some storage. It was intended to be the basis for an in game market. To use NCR at the moment you need to be on the stand-alone (non-steam) build on neos, which is available on the website. On a technical level it tries to address some of the environmental impact concerns of cryptocurrencies by keeping most transactions on an internal ledger.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:54:29
content:
  ok, then let me ask this. How old are you? because you'd need to go buy it and I just don't suggest a young person doing that


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 12:55:48
content:
  and it's an involved process. Just don't go fucking with crypto unless you know what you're doing. NCR is geared more for those people atm


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:02:13
content:
  if you really want NCR, you'll have to learn how to use a DEX (decentralized exchange), namely Uniswap. However, it's complicated. I wouldn't go headfirst into it without knowing anything. You could mess something up and lose funds. SERIOUSLY


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:03:02
content:
  i think i sould get some with my patreon but at the moment i have none and the patreon paymand alrady went trou


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:03:50
content:
  you'll get it rewarded to your account in Neos. If you're playing on Steam you won't see the balance, but if you download the standalone, you'll see it


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:15:58
content:
  okay but that all seems really complicated just to give people a small tip wouldn't it have been much easier to do it with normal money?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:19:45
content:
  and honestly it's not nearly as graceful to ask someone their paypal address than to just surprise them with a kind tip.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:21:40
content:
  so it's less complicated to tell someone to sign up for Kofi so you can give them a tip through a middleman service


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:22:38
content:
  I think crypto is a lot less common than something like kofi, patreon, or buymeacoffee among creative people,


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:25:04
content:
  but it's worth noting it may seem most creatives use these services when really they're not as prolific as we think and not nearly at all outside english speakers


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:32:33
edit_date: 2022-08-05 13:33:41
content:
  So I understand that correctly?, to buy NCR I first have to buy ETH and then buy ETH with ETH NCR and there are fees for the transactions if I want to tip someone $10 now, and this person then wants the NCR back in $ the person must  do it again NCR to ETH and ETH to $? how high would the fees be and what is left for him?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:37:14
content:
  crypto is kind of new, so it's abit awkward and unweildy. Thankfully you don't have to use it at all if you don't want to


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:40:03
edit_date: 2022-08-05 13:41:04
content:
  I think whilst some people say that they don’t care about it, having and utilising in-game currency, such as NCR has a huge potencial in terms of creative freedom. It’s very democratic in its nature. Anyone can exchange some ETH and keep NCR in their wallet, providing they have the necessary know-how. In anonymity that is impossible in platform like PayPal (someone mentioned earlier, nothing against it, I still use it from time to time).
  But metaverse is all about global outreach and international communities- there are people in countries that might not want to share all their private information. Countries that are opressive. Or less developed but no less excited about the potential of metaverse. 
  I think sometimes people forget that world isn’t just US or UK/EU. That is one case for it. But of course, everyone has their own reason for engaging or not engaging with NCR and that is totally fine:)


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:47:14
edit_date: 2022-08-05 13:49:03
content:
  Yes, that would be really good, currently it seems to me that you have to use crypto and that it is one of the most important things in the game. when I look at the website


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 13:51:29
content:
  i love neos vr because of the freedom in the game and in the last few weeks when i made many of my vrc friends aware of neos, some were confused by the crypto stuff on the website and didn't want to play because of it


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:09:41
content:
  There is a lot of bad press and controversies around crypto out there. Mainly because of many scammy projects. I feel that even "metaverse" is just a buzzword now and sadly some people see Neos as "another of these". But when they hear what is possible or try it, they absolutelly love it and they are excited. And about the website, yes, we would love to put some in-game footage or the Neos trailer on the web, unfortunatelly we cannot at this point since the situation is what it is and people are reluctant to give their permissions...What a unique metaverse we are 😁. Onwards and upwards however, just enjoy Neos, it's an awesome platform with lovely community and we are happy for any new users. 🙏😊


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:21:16
content:
  I've heard people attacking Neos for using the word "Metaverse" when it had been using the word for like 7 years already, long before any buzz around it


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:22:49
content:
  also worth noting that just because someone is complaining about something on twitter (like the use of the word metaverse) doesn't mean they're neo's audience or that they were ever going to play the game


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:29:14
content:
  While crypto's reputation is greatly damaged by scams, I personally take issue with the inability to easily cash out. As a creator, NCR is worthless to me if I can't take out without ridiculous gas fees. If we ever have something as simple as paypal support, I'll be all over that.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:30:08
content:
  It was about a year ago, but I did have a friend who was really into doing this for clothing and the like on other platforms. However, they left Neos a few months ago.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:36:24
content:
  Then just use paypal. it seems the argument trying to be made is "crypto isn't perfect yet, so it shouldn't exist"


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:43:10
content:
  because like it or not, NCR kind of grows alongside ETH in certain ways, and if it becomes apparently it won't suit our needs, maybe it should be snapshot and moved to a different chain?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:50:20
content:
  Pretty decent for me. I use it atleast once a week and it's been less of a headache than going through other processors to transact with people in other countries


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 14:59:26
content:
  That's kinda the infinite loop NCR is in rn, waiting for it to get better each time one of its problems is brought up.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:02:49
content:
  Honestly that's how the entirety of blockchain technology feels. Any problems it has are excused by "well it'll get better" and we keep waiting for it to get better.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:12:15
content:
  like, it has been getting better. I've been involved since 2013 and it's a seen dozens of concepts go from theory to practice... these things take time, just like non-crypto things do


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:19:17
content:
  We literally just had someone today talk about how they had a really bad first impression because of ncr


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:19:20
content:
  I think we kind of miss the point there like, just because something exists doesnt mean we're forced to use it. it's OK for us to let it be its thing and develope alongside the rest of the game


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:25:20
content:
  well I'm in favor of that, reordering the website based off what everyone's saying, and in addition just waiting to see what the ETH update looks like


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:46:32
content:
  I think NCR should just be shelved for now until a proper marketplace can be set up for it in Neos with as seamless an experience as possible.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 15:47:59
content:
  And by seamless I mean the average person can purchase NCR, trade it, and cash out all within the application.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 16:57:58
content:
  I think this is exactly why NCR is unlikely to actually take off as a seamless transaction experience or one that people want to interact with at all. Compare this to using Paypal, which most people already have set up and that really just requires you to give someone your email/link, they send the money, you accept, done.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 17:42:14
content:
  It is quite a lengthy process to buy NCR, and well, crypto is not really anonymous anymore because of coin exchanges and tracking techniques.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 17:49:16
content:
  I don't think it's a bad idea for neos to have its own currency, it worked well for SL, just not sure about blockchain


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 17:53:52
content:
  I never played SL but from what I understand, SL currency worked better because they already had a platform and purpose for it as well as obtaining the currency was totally encapsulated inside the platform.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:08:43
content:
  As I was about to mention, more or less. I can buy L$ by just... buying it with PayPal (or in the past, direct credit card). To sell, I just... sell it, and then request a transfer of funds to... PayPal. Sure the fees have changed, but the exchange system hasn't. The cost to cash out is only taxed on the withdrawing amount, not a "You require x L$ in order to withdraw x USD."


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:09:44
content:
  Oh, and Tilia's concierge support team is top tier. Never had any issues with them and they always helped out big time with any questions I had.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:24:49
content:
  Gonna preface this by saying that I don't actually understand much in crypto when it comes to withdrawing into actual money, but hasn't there been an increase in platforms that specifically handle payments and exchanges, which kinda has defeated the purpose of crypto?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:25:13
content:
  Like, the tools that make it so your average person can even attempt to use crypto as a day-to-day currency inherently act as an exchange handler akin to PayPal


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:31:10
content:
  I guess if every platform were using crypto and people would actively want to exchange NCR to gain tokens in another game that would be a really good thing but honestly, what would someone who's trying to make a living off making things in Neos want to do with that besides exchange it for money directly? And at that point, aren't most people just going to use PayPal, Gumroad, etc?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:32:11
content:
  idk i'm just struggling to understand who wants crypto instead of cash when it comes to trying to make money making things


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:38:08
content:
  Most people don't have Paypal set up, lol... Paypal is not well used across many countries at all, and it's relatively obscure in Japan (of which there are many Neos players)


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:38:09
content:
  It honestly feels like it's a very, like, hopeful thinking kinda thing, know what I mean? Like I really would like to see this decentralized currency that's free from prudish banks and payment companies that refuse to interact with certain transactions. But realistically with so many hurdles on the consumer end (not even getting into crypto manipulation, ecological impact, social perception, etc.) it seems like it is just wishful thinking.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:40:06
content:
  As far as I can see, I end up having to use exchange handlers because in Canada, I must go through these processes in order to legally buy any crypto


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:40:21
content:
  I'm talking globally. The more people say "just use paypal" the more I realize most of the people here have never had to send money to people in certain countries it seems. Or dealt with currency exchange fees and all of that muck.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:42:02
content:
  I mean I feel much of this discussion is really just trying to argue away NCR's right to exist, when I feel that there's really no reason to not just let it be its thing.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:42:36
content:
  I'm talking in Neos which has a huge furry userbase, and PayPal is EXTREMELY common in the furry fandom. The furry fandom has found a pretty decent solution for people paying artists and while it is flawed, it's gonna take a lot to convince people to hop on crypto.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:44:51
content:
  I also think there's misunderstandings about how much overhead and development will need to go into copying second life's system, and also the trust that goes into maintaining that in perpetuity, and whatever hidden obligations go into that, along with customer service.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:45:55
content:
  I just think Neos doesn't really need to do an in-game currency system at all right now. I think for the time being it's fine for users to just use outside systems until the team is actually ready to take on an in-game economy.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:45:59
content:
  and one benefit for crypto is that it can exist and function longer than the company that made it even


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:47:23
content:
  Well, it exists. It's here. It's not really hurting anyone either by just existing, is it? And as an NCR holder, I'm quite happy to buy it and hold it, because I get to give it to people I like ingame, but also it's fun being able to hold it and be excited thinking what it could possibly be used for in the future. That experience is important too and shouldn't be just written off


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:48:20
content:
  Same thing in South Korea. It's a whole different take on everything, honestly, and it's kind of refreshing.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:48:22
content:
  We've been over this, just existing has put off many people from starting to play Neos because crypto as a whole has terrible public image.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:49:05
content:
  Besides that, sure, NCR is harmless if we don't really consider the drama surrounding it. But public image is really important to introducing people to a game.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:49:20
content:
  yeah I imagine most commissions and work will be sold through things like paypal, but I think it's also not bad to think about what foreground is important to lay in a metaverse, which IMO should have borderless currencies by principle


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:49:35
content:
  Many friends of mine refused to even consider Neos until VRC crapped itself and it was specifically because of Neos' involvement in crypto and NFTs


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:49:57
content:
  the public image of crypto will change imo. People will stop caring about something that's really not a big deal


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:50:23
content:
  People have been saying that for about 2 years now and people still hate any company the moment they announce NFTs or crypto


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:51:04
content:
  Some Patreon tiers have an NFT included with them planned for the future "when it's environmentally friendly"


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:51:50
content:
  I think they should remove references to the NFTs on patreon, and someday of course deliver on that promise to those patrons.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:52:50
content:
  Public image is so important and the crypto association has definitely done some damage. Heck, even being associate with the "metaverse" terminology tends to put people off.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:53:33
content:
  because of that, imo, I think the issue is more the public being reactionary than the actual underlying approaches Neos is taking


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:54:42
content:
  Neos got really unlucky. Pretty much all the bad things it's tied to (besides the NFTs maybe), they launched did way before the public started to really dislike them. NCR launched when crypto wasn't nearly as problematic and until Facebook started trying to dominate the Metaverse terminology nobody really cared.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:55:21
content:
  Oh yeah I agree, the problem is that with the environment crypto is in right now, most games that have crypto involved *are* crypto games. So to someone just window shopping for games to play, seeing Neos involved with crypto is gonna make that connection for them.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:55:32
content:
  Ooh, I get you now. That does open it up to how they must rely on outside tech and organizations to continue to run for their system to run


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:56:31
content:
  yeah, and I don't think you get anywhere trying to be beholden to people who really just want something to complain about. If someone thinks the word Metaverse is controversial, imo they're not the kind of people Neos is meant to speak to right now


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 18:58:02
content:
  Dead by Daylight had a DLC for the Pinhead character and the license holders of Pinhead were doing an NFT, completely uninvolved with Dead by Daylight, and that DLC got absolutely bombshelled with bad reviews on Steam about crypto. Crypto association can be suuuuuper damning right now.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:00:14
content:
  honestly i don't get why NFT in-game items need to be on blockchain, just do it the Steam inventory way. I genuinely don't understand in what context I would want to transfer an item from one game to a completely different one, god only knows how bad it would be to actually support that kinda feature.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:03:32
content:
  I think the Steam inventory approach has worked great for years and it's really weird seeing companies trying to reinvent the wheel. Still gives the able to exchange assets between users among different games without all the dumb blockchain stuff.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:04:48
content:
  Crypto is not currently about exchanging currency for goods and services, it's about investment and speculation.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:11:01
content:
  Though in this case the blockchain is just acting as a glorified (and inefficient) cloud backup solution. We could verify proof of purchase using existing cryptography technologies. Cryptographic signatures are easy to verify (and don't require a public history of every purchase associated with a wallet).


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:14:40
content:
  Hasn't a huge controversy surrounding blockchain as a whole been all the market manipulations though?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:17:03
content:
  I think while a centralized system can be manipulated by the one entity controlling it, there's a level of accountability and repercussion that makes it a bit safer.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:17:13
content:
  but robinhood does the same, just they compartmentalize it differently, and they still do the same stuff of selling the exchange data, and infact auction it off


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:19:27
content:
  I guess its valid criticism tho, with blockchain security is a personal responsibility for the most part, but then again there's also less need for trust


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:20:05
content:
  I also think an issue surrounding blockchain is that as more solutions are created to solve problems inherent to blockchain/crypto, the more it defeats the initial purpose of using it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:21:17
content:
  I think a big thing is gonna be refunds, how are you gonna tackle the issue of refunds/accidental transactions without more centralization or manipulation?


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:21:48
content:
  And as more platforms are started to lower the barrier to entry for crypto exchange, that just makes it more centralized


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:25:50
content:
  thats kind of where my imagination is in it too, because I think autonomous structures like that are sort of vital for a real "metaverse" to actually be a serious thing


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:31:59
content:
  like an item drop being able to be verified with certainty that the result was random and not some tampering by the game operator


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:33:32
content:
  Maybe internally. It would make no sense in this context to run these on a public blockchain. But as a solution for an eventual consistency database, maybe, if you aren't pressed for transaction performance (which most MMOs are).


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:38:08
content:
  I have no idea why you wouldn't just use traditional sharding for something like this tbh. It's not like the blockchain really offers anything an acid compliant dbe doesn't.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 19:52:39
content:
  Something I wonder about with this multi-server and metaverse application stuff is... How would you encourage developers, artists, and makers in general to make their products compatible with multiple metaverses? That's like, beyond something like an avatar, or 3D model with assets like animations and textures. I'm talking about stuff like scripting, like weapons, gadgets, tools, etc etc etc


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 20:01:44
content:
  I see standardizing an object representation and runtime as an interesting challenge. I think it's definitely possible.


type: message
date: 2022-08-05 20:05:42
content:
  I don't really care about the benefits of a blockchain based model (i see none), I do care about developing an open platform.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 07:29:50
edit_date: 2022-08-06 08:49:59
content:
  Very interesting topic you touched there.
  Apologies this will be a longer rant:)

  I think the main problem with any metaverse concept is that it's inherently limited to one platform or software. You have some assets, and you're restricted to using them within that one space.
  A full-fledged metaverse has to be interoperable. It needs to be modeled more like real life, because that is true freedom.
  If you have an avatar that you've spent hours and hours on building, it's an important part of your identity, and you want to be able to take it to another platform. 

  Say I buy a car and drive around my hometown with it for the rest of my life. But that isn't very exciting—I want to take my car anywhere. Or sell it. Or swap it for a bike.
  In Neos it's already extremely easy to import assets and while we are tiny now, imagine if people started using Neos as their primary hub for digital content.
  It's where NFTs come in ( I hear you taking a knife out😁). Personally, I could not give a damn about stupid pictures of monkeys with a fag but there are actually very useful NFT use cases in terms of asset ownership, gaming, music production...even real estate (I am not talking about virtual real estate here). 

  But back to the metaverse, it will be exciting for creators. Because right now if you are an artist or musician it's extremely hard for you to make money. You are a slave to the record label or streaming service. In fact, do we have any musicians/artists in here? Share your experience please. 

  Or perhaps you live somewhere like India or the Philippines where it's extremely hard to exhibit and sell your art because there are simply not enough institutions or support. Metaverse is going to be a groundbreaking deal because you suddenly unlock this huge global audience for yourself and you can sell your art/asset directly to someone who will have genuine pleasure from buying it. That is what this is about in my opinion. Supporting what you love and believe in.🌼 Not buying some silly JPEGs or coins because someone told you it's gonna get big. It might and it might not. 

  I am not making a case for any of the above as this is purely my personal view, just to be clear. 

  I am just saying that Neos with NCR (and NFT) support _can_ unleash possibilities that we cannot fully foresee yet. And it's completely okay if people are not sure or ready, but things are not bad just because we don't understand them.

  It will take time and it will be just like anything new before - there is a lot of fish in the sea now, but only some or going to swim. 🙂


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 07:31:52
content:
  And following my rant, please everyone welcome @NonnyFreedom to our group as our new moderation help. Nonny is a new member of Neos team and community so please be kind and helpful. I don't want to see any abusive messages or attempts to throw dirt (in the chat or via DMs). Just play nicely😉I am confident that if we keep it positive, we can make this chat a much nicer place. 
  Thank you very much in advance😊


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 08:15:18
content:
  Hello everyone, to be honest I'm quite new to this kind of community. I'm looking forward cooperate with everyone.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 09:30:33
content:
  I've heard NFTs suggested as a supplement to the title/deed system. I actually think that is not a bad use of them. Publicly validated chains of custody, especially with the current challenges of validating title/deed, would be a huge improvement.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 09:54:13
edit_date: 2022-08-06 14:16:29
content:
  I have a harder time accepting that premise with asset licensing. I don't see the same concepts as mapping to the nature of digital spaces. At least in terms of NFTs as an analogue to ownership. Enforcement is still a matter of law or drm systems, and copies remain identical. Cryptocurrencies really do have potential to do as you outlined. Cutting through geographic and culture divides and somewhat meaningfully resisting hegemonic influences of payment processors (My go to example is instances of PayPal policing the content of commissions made through their platform). That is one of the aspects of NCR I am somewhat hopeful about.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 10:12:29
content:
  I don't think it's been thought out.. I think maybe at a date they should give an object based on how long someone has been a patron at those tiers. I still think they should clean up the patreon and maybe just not mention it for awhile. I think it's just ammo for twitter assholes to slander the platform with, I dun think it actually attracts new patrons.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 10:30:07
content:
  There is currently also a disconnect between the two "groups" that actually have control of patreon and the ones that don't . At the moment its pretty much something that karel need to do as far as i understand it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 12:04:13
content:
  Hello Nonny ^^, nice to meet you. Out of curiosity what sort of community backgrounds are you used to dealing with?


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 12:39:52
content:
  Well, I used to manage some campus page and group chat however this is my first time for this kind of group. It's very interesting for me


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 12:54:23
content:
  I did download the program, really interested to run it but I got some problems with the oculus so hope I can login soon


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 13:00:31
edit_date: 2022-08-06 13:52:13
content:
  Your mind is going to be blown. The community in Neos has made some truly incredible stuff.

  If you run into Geenz, make sure to ask him to show you his cool vore system.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 14:21:25
content:
  I apologize. I did not mean to imply he made the system. I must have been misinformed. Which team member was the one who had the system on their avatar?


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 15:33:35
edit_date: 2022-08-07 08:58:58
content:
  But NSFW culture, as you just said yourself, is very prevalent here. Especially in neos. Give him an honest preview of neos culture. Don't sugger coat it. Give him a full tour.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 15:46:00
content:
  People will always use systems to express themselves. This will include nsfw works. What people do in privacy by themselves isn't a negative to sugar coat. Neos isn't interested in censoring people, especially in private servers.

  There's nothing wrong with consenting adults using a system the way that they choose.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:06:17
content:
  It is not deviant behavior if the behavior is normal inside the community. Yall are the ones projecting negative connotations to NSFW activities. I also beleive people should be free to do what they want in in their private servers.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:10:22
edit_date: 2022-08-06 16:10:49
content:
  I wonder, may we point to those Russian moderation bots that serve no purpose again? They arent needed anymore and weren't from the beginning too due to posting rules were setted after bringing them in here.
  "NoPigRobot" and "NoSticker" bots.

  They are even listed as admins..


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:31:25
content:
  But as so you know I wasn't in the group of client developer of any of a discussion board I can't really do anything about those


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:43:43
edit_date: 2022-08-06 16:44:29
content:
  Oh, and yes! A hail is a kind of 'hello,' it's a specific type of greeting used in radio where someone will identify themselves with their name and radio ID, essentially 'hailing' another to ask for a response in kind.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:47:02
content:
  It's getting late here in my country. I must get some sleep now, glad that I'm getting welcome here.  have a nice day every one


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 16:50:18
content:
  It's a fun hobby, definitely. We did field day in Neos this year, got radios controllable in game and everything :D We intend to do more events like that if you'd ever like to give it a whirl under the club call sign.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 18:53:48
content:
  I am somehow reminded of a few verses I really like from Aesop Rock's Pizza Alley:
  Pay no mind to the bygones
  Find [them] a strange hill to die on
  Never let me die on a regular hill(x6)


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:00:11
edit_date: 2022-08-06 19:00:46
content:
  But honestly, I'm using that as a token of complicated respect. If I die on a hill, I just hope it's a strange one. You are sticking to your guns, which I still don't entirely understand, but it's clearly a principle of some sort.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:08:29
content:
  Karel and Andrea have communicated clear intent to move forward with NCR. The announcements channel in the project's discord has more relivant information for your analysis. I will decline from giving you any specific financial advice, but I will encourage you to read the announcements regarding NCR to better inform your position.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:18:01
content:
  Pocket watches are cool D: you can get neat watch calibers for cheap because of... their... lack of popularity >.> So yeah, probably.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:18:54
content:
  they're so much less annoying to deal with than wristwatches 😔 but i also dont need +1 object in my pockets


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:21:57
content:
  But (pants cut dependant) you could put it in the vestigial pocket that was made for it and get that rare teleological satisfaction.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:25:08
content:
  Honestly I have stuffed my keys down my pants more times than I am strictly comfortable admitting trying to use that little pocket for my key fob so I feel that.


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 19:29:28
content:
  i suppose making a little pocket watch item and combining it with the backpack system could be a cute little combo


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 22:47:03
content:
  I hope they help you! No one here has access to the inner workings, so that's the best I can direct you to


type: message
date: 2022-08-06 22:57:05
content:
  Uhh, the telegram isn't a good place to ask for a job. If you're interested in working with a company, you should contact their HR and recruitment via Email, or look on their website to see if they have any roles they want fulfilled so you know where to send a resume.


type: message
date: 2022-08-09 05:28:02
content:
  Hello admin
  I am tracy, Overseas Listing Director of Bitmart exchange.
  We want to seek the possibility of neos  listing on bitmart exchange.
  Can I get right person to talk ?


type: message
date: 2022-08-09 18:55:36
edit_date: 2022-08-09 19:17:53
content:
  If anyone here is looking for ways to build within Neos, my team and I can help :)  https://twitter.com/sirkitree/status/1557046220693991426


type: message
date: 2022-08-10 20:04:28
content:
  Looks like the certificate expired. @malooniac Y'all aware of this? The wiki and the account management page look to be affected and need to be renewed.


type: message
date: 2022-08-10 20:31:32
content:
  Do not ignore certificate warnings, if in doubt don't access the site and wait and try again later or another day, when it works again


type: message
date: 2022-08-10 22:42:36
edit_date: 2022-08-10 22:52:11
content:
  Unfortunately we had some large ddos attacks lately. One of our hosts limited services (no external DNS routing anymore, we are using Cloudflare DNS) to protect other customers. That invalidated some of our SSL certificates. We’ll have new ones soon. This has no effect on the main website nor Neos itself.


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 06:43:36
content:
  Is that the final test? I see the market is all up, I am curious if that climbs back to 2k. That would be better news right?😁


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 12:47:37
content:
  I do agree with you. But the top 1 priority is to work on a resolution, which I am sure is happening behind the scenes as Karel and @malooniac are working on it. It would be a shame just to aim for an exit pump. 

  Tbh even if I won't mind this kind of pump (to recover my losses), I am confident that a steady and sustainable grow is the way to go.


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 13:08:49
content:
  which seems to be blocked currently, because, what I guess, the owner of the IP needs to be legally determined and then also physically been transferred


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 13:28:16
content:
  A new website better than the old one would be good. One that has a focus on the current community and what could be done in Neos


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 13:29:28
edit_date: 2022-08-11 16:37:35
content:
  Our current website is way too pro-crypto, as in it looks like a crypto-metaverse template (because it is)


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 13:30:25
edit_date: 2022-08-11 19:16:01
content:
  Well, the crypto can stay and has its place there. However focus should be more on the product, than just the coin


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 13:31:20
edit_date: 2022-08-11 14:12:41
content:
  Ye thats fine. Just saying that right now it has little project focus. Neos's strength is that IT EXISTS


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 14:11:19
edit_date: 2022-08-12 00:59:36
content:
  If only it was that simple. It is to be expected that the "new devs" will face reluctance from the community and OG


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 14:11:26
edit_date: 2022-08-11 14:12:06
content:
  And the issue of the Coin being so very dominant presented on the site is also that it looks quite bad for people, due to looking close to other sites that are just there for it or even scam sites.
  Maybe its better to put more categories with tabs/sections to the site. And flesh out the community section as well as a section about neos itself, how it roughly works for example with its peer 2 peer setup with asset servers in addition.


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 14:12:55
content:
  Yeah, introduction to Neos, what it is, what it isn't. Showcase worlds, showcase the creators view. Have a tab for NCR as well. Show all the social links together incl. Discord, Telegram, Twitter and so on


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 14:16:52
content:
  I'd personally not trust a new team to continue forward with the same vision and community focus unless they came from the community. The biggest positive point for me has always been Neos' resistance to the same forces that have pushed competitors to cave to pressures of sanitization for commercialization against (IMO) their community interests. I strongly believe that comes from how embedded the decision makers have been with the stake holders.


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 17:28:32
content:
  A forum of people who stalk and harass. They were one of the entities that contributed to the suicide of BSnes and MSU-1 developer Near/Byuu, because they were trans.


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 20:23:28
content:
  Do you have control over Windows when it locks up, or is it a total lockup and you have to reset the power?


type: message
date: 2022-08-11 21:50:37
content:
  Since it's rather odd for a specific application to hard lock a computer, I would recommend trying some other games or even running some CPU / GPU benchmarks to see if you can trigger it under load. I assume you've done the usual driver updates and checking to ensure that all of your fans are running properly and free of dust or anything that would impede cooling?


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 17:27:56
content:
  but more I'm just wondering why I ever gave some of these people benefit of the doubt in this channel when I see what they're really all about on the other platform


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 17:30:05
content:
  I mean I'm ok with it if it's ok to call any community member vile shit so long as they arent currently in the discord and I remember to say "sowwy mods" first


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 17:31:28
edit_date: 2022-08-13 23:42:16
content:
  I'll just say this, I regret considering Flame a potentially well-measured person when really how they acted here was often just as a snake


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 17:33:15
edit_date: 2022-08-13 17:34:59
content:
  Its pretty single sided and being spun up to be a big thing, while stuff happend in here were a tousends folds worse....
  But yes he still insulted someone


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 20:05:41
content:
  I originally thought it was an accidental censor of a user's name which is more common but ya it makes sense after speaking to the Neos VR user who's making all the privacy mods.


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 20:09:11
content:
  I mean I guess, but many timezones contains millions of people so it's not like it's identifiable but I guess it's one thing you could consider private. I dislike that it's masking the timestamp which could lead it to being used in an incorrect context


type: message
date: 2022-08-13 23:00:44
content:
  Nice meeting you in Neos. If I get any pointers on controller bindings I'll let you know. For any Neos technical help, I recommend joining the Neos Discord, https://discord.gg/neosvr


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 01:11:54
edit_date: 2022-08-14 01:32:51
content:
  A large VR influencer posted a video about Neos today. I think it was well made, but I'd like to hear others opinions on it :)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rvAKRWC82g


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 04:47:49
content:
  it was well made and kinda fine but made to sound like it was all about cryptobros coming in when the real issue was other stuff


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 04:48:28
edit_date: 2022-08-14 12:54:06
content:
  if thats the version of history we wanna go with im fine with that if it means we can move on to better things


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 04:54:11
content:
  one thing that confuses me and Ill prolly need to rewatch is where it brings up Andrea being hired and then it says people needed to crowd around Froox because he was visibly upset...

  What happened?


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 06:23:57
edit_date: 2022-08-14 07:04:45
content:
  Thanks for posting the video.😊 I was made aware of it before it went live. 

  I understand that non-biased journalism isn't fully possible here, because it's quite hard to grasp the whole situation without all the information and context. Production-wise it's a nice video, even if a little too dramatic for my personal preference. 
  But I understand that it's for audience engagement.☺️

  The biggest issue I see here is people having fundamental problems with the NCR being ingrained in Neos. They somehow feel threatened by this whole crypto thing. They think this is "Karel's vision". And don't see much utility.
  And you can't blame them. I agree here with the author of the video that so many of the new metaverse projects are nothing but empty promises and ways to suck money from gullible people. People are scared because in their eyes, crypto-bro mentality has the potential to spoil something they love so dearly. But we shouldn't let that cloud our judgment when it comes to Neos and NCR.  We can choose how to write the narrative here.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 06:24:16
edit_date: 2022-08-14 06:41:19
content:
  We're building something new and innovative. Something that has value beyond the platform itself. There is a potential for a whole massive open source ecosystem. And I don't think it can be fully achieved if Neos relies on some VC funding or centralized solutions. 

  I feel the video does not stress enough the point that NCR has the potential to return something to the community and that it can provide freedom to the project as a whole. We all want Neos to be this amazing metaverse that Thrill showed us: an immersive, open world where people can create whatever they want without limits or boundaries. And it could happen tomorrow—only people themself have that freedom of choice.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 06:25:30
edit_date: 2022-08-14 06:41:20
content:
  Both Karel and Frooxius wanted everyone who contributed and helped to make Neos a reality to benefit from its success. And grow Neos' user base and ecosystem organically. One platform for education, work, and entertainment. Just like they outlined in the whitepaper.
  Patreon subscriptions gave NCR perks because the founders believed that if Neos makes it big one day, those who helped should be taken care of. 
  I can't see much wrong with that.  
  This whole mentality of "to hell with the token" is not helpful to anyone.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 06:27:31
edit_date: 2022-08-14 06:41:23
content:
  When I joined, there was already a split you could sense and negative sentiment towards Karel. I do not wish to discuss anything detailed here because a lot of things were said to me in confidence and I will respect that.

  What I can tell you is that I saw a very talented team with passion and drive that could go really far. I also saw two men who had difficulty communicating with each other and were under a lot of pressure caused by the whole metaverse-boom situation.

  It would be best if you ask Frooxius or the team themselves because anything I say will be just my view and I don't wish to create more rumors or spark a heated debate.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 06:30:22
edit_date: 2022-08-14 06:41:24
content:
  Despite the challenges we've faced, I did my best to work with the team and tried to do my job as best I could. I understand that they were surprised that I was brought on. That is not something that was in my control. If people feel they had issues with me, they had every means of contacting me and talking it through. They still have. I don't claim that everything was perfect and I always gave my apologies when proven wrong. We all grow. So I sleep okay ☺️


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 07:00:32
content:
  Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. If there's anyone who could bridge a divide, it's you, and if it means anything, I'm not the only one who thinks that. 

  I also know this is stressful, because if it's stressful for me I can't imagine how it feels on your end. I'm sorry you also got thrust into that video in a less than fair manner as well.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 07:16:46
edit_date: 2022-08-14 07:45:23
content:
  I appreciate the support and the message thank you. But really this is not about me. I don’t want to make it about me. 

  Literally all I want is for everyone to be in a better place so they can feel they are fulfilled and working on something that is aligned in what they believe. But we can’t move if we constantly bring back the same story.  

  I will always be here for anyone who wants to talk but I don’t have a superpower of making things back to normal unless people are willing to forgive and move on. 

  But at very least we could try to stop the scaremongering. Neos won’t die. That’s is in nobody’s interest. Too many people care ☺️


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 08:24:35
content:
  Nobody wants it to die, yet it is suffocating for almost a year now, without any signs of a resolution. How long it will take? Another year? Maybe a few more? Meanwhile, nobody from the dev team informs the community about anything from the talks, so we are left to speculate.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 16:16:52
content:
  If you're talking about Neos failing in a blockchain sense, why are you doing it in 2021 the way you're doing it in 2018? I think it comes down to.
  https://twitter.com/WakiyamaP/status/1558838960088293376?t=U601pCEjLpklEPupUg1FAA&s=19


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 16:17:37
content:
  There was a trend to make it a Governance token, but it ended up being a discord vote, and what were you giving out CDTFs for? I was wondering what was the point of distributing CDTFs? I think that if they are going to do this nowadays, the distribution should have been done by USDC stables and the fee should have been allocated by NCR's share. Well, I guess it's too late for that.
  https://twitter.com/WakiyamaP/status/1558839775913975809?t=Szmko7Drrfva2edyC8ldJw&s=19


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 16:18:28
content:
  If you're talking about being destroyed by people speculating, then the DISCORD vote is more at risk. Then the percentage of people who were doing existing NeosVR was clearly higher, including the ones who were handing out CDTFs and such. However, it was a bad idea to get involved in such an evil technology as blockchain, so it was inevitable in part. It's hard.
  https://twitter.com/WakiyamaP/status/1558840440073629697?t=nre4bmOcgQShA17wlcM3og&s=19


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 17:58:18
edit_date: 2022-08-14 17:58:25
content:
  I wouldn't agree on a governance token due to the large amount of money-driven crypto investors we had gotten at the peak times. We had a ton of people who didn't give a hoot about anything else


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 17:59:54
content:
  While community does own a ton of ncr, there would still be a big outsider influence of people who know absolutely nothing about the project other than the NCR token


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 18:29:05
content:
  It was never meant as a governance token, it was meant as a "hey, have some token of gratitude so we remember who helped our project"


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 18:31:54
content:
  The biggest mess it made wasn't that it exploded in value needlessly, but that the sudden stream of money devided the two friends who creates this project togehter. And obviously you can't replace the main programmer of this project, because its his brain child. And the one actually managing the money can't also not easily be replaced... now everything is at a standstill until they figure it out and one of them has the project. Depending on who that is it stays the same project or it devides into 2 projects (second under different name lead by the programer probably)


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 19:14:08
content:
  Governance tokens have proven so far to be ineffective and, with few exceptions, a long term failure for coordinated action. More to the point, DAOs and governance systems don't seem well suited for software development decisions. 

  Only thing NCR needs to be in order to succeed is what's already in place, it just needs to be given a chance, and actual support from the team and community. Which unfortunately doesn't seem that likely at this point.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 19:44:33
content:
  Actually, governance Token doesn't make any sense at all. That would put Neos into a direction the community in Neos doesn't want to go


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 19:55:39
content:
  I believe in DAOs, but I agree that the Neos community wouldn't want that. Unlike NCR which exists and is non-invasive, a DAO making decisions likely would be


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 20:44:02
content:
  Hey, just found out that Reactant, who used to be a really vocal member of the community posted a video and made serious allegations.. 

  Andrea, may we get some clarifications ? I would appreciate to hear more than just a onesided opinion if it is possible.

  Guess that's a weird shift from Reactant !

  https://youtu.be/OZ-V8-AMaf8


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 20:57:46
content:
  Reactant,he actually sold over 400,000 NCR and came back with a lie claim. He doesn't understand Karel's long-term vision


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:01:16
content:
  Reactant bought and sold NCR arbitrage a long time ago. It was early 2019. I know his wallet is on the etherscan blockchain. He made millions of dollars from that activity


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:07:36
edit_date: 2022-08-14 21:26:49
content:
  Reactant certainly benefitted from NCR, I don't know how much. I've noticed there's always a tendency for those who break free from something to turn against it. It's the same attitude I think the team took after they liquidated their NCR to about-face and turn against it


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:08:40
content:
  So it's no surprise he feels nothing in throwing those individual holders under the bus... A different kind of bridge burning.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:10:00
content:
  But I want to hear Karel's side and the logic behind the buybacks. I'll confess I always saw them as some sort of calculated move in preparation for something legal or aligning things to end his ICO.. But we know nothing.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:11:54
edit_date: 2022-08-14 22:40:47
content:
  I also want to say I actually support the first buybacls he did, as they were in response to the team fudding the token themselves (and weaponizing the community to do it for then) and morally, yes I think it was the right call. What Reactant misses here is that while that money was to belong to Froox too, Froox himself attacked that very funding scheme, making it absurd for him to benefit from it while damaging those who were a part of it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:13:13
content:
  However at a point I don't see the point of the buybacks. Also Reactant doesn't even gloss over thr fact that much of the wallet valur downturn was not from buyback selling, but the drop of ETH'S value. But his criticism otherwise still needs answers.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:14:31
content:
  buybacks, karel wants to shorten the number of NCRs in the market. It will be good if Neos holds a large amount of NCR to serve long-term financial problems. Anti-dumping and sustainable financing


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:16:25
content:
  I understand his logic to believe NCR will be more valuable after the end of this split, but also believe NCR is stronger in the hands of the users (unless he planned to do a burn or something).


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:17:19
content:
  All of these plans simply cannot be talked about either, as there's danger in informing the market, and likely legal reasons, so I know it's unreasonable to expect clear answers.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:18:01
content:
  The only clear answer we got was that Karel believes in NCR and promises it will be worth more in the future. So extrapolate what we will from that...


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:22:31
edit_date: 2022-08-14 21:23:54
content:
  The problem isn’t buybacks. The problem is doing them when the entire team is against you actively trying to crash the price of NCR


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:22:44
content:
  Dumped NCR is no exception. Altcoins are dumped when BTC loses 60% of its value. Almost all Altcoins lose between 80 and 95% of their value compared to ATH


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:23:36
content:
  Buybacks can and will work, eventually there’s so little NCR in circulation that the price can return to “normal” levels very quickly


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:25:11
content:
  this, and this is always left out. It was like a negative feedback loop spiraling downward. I'm not saying I agree with that being the way to handle it though. I think there's more to the picture we don't know. I... think?


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 21:26:13
content:
  This but in the fact of that it's a strong market force and standing in the way of it is like standing in the way of a locomotive.


type: message
date: 2022-08-14 22:30:52
edit_date: 2022-08-15 00:53:09
content:
  To me it seems like Reactent is envious of his old celebrity status and is willing to say anything to get back into the neos community.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 02:19:46
content:
  He is one of those rare individuals who is listed at the top of the holder rankings, yet cares about the community.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 03:36:43
edit_date: 2022-08-15 04:03:59
content:
  yeah alot of the NCR buyers were Japanese players. When March 4 happened, there was alot of confusion in the community


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 04:49:18
content:
  Crypto has gotten bad rep for its ecological impact, ruining GPU prices, GPU scalping, scams, and taking advantage of people who don't know better. Don't know wtf this weird ass take is.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 04:54:29
content:
  where crypto does have ecological impact, its so small compared to every other impact that even if you got the entire world to ban crypto, it wouldnt even account for 0.1% of carbon emissions likely


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 04:55:30
content:
  and GPU prices were far more from scalping culture and covid supply chain issues, as well as stay-at-home changes


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 04:56:42
content:
  so we take unfortunate things like this and bundle them all together and go "all X is bad" and then think nothing of attacking people over it


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 04:59:16
content:
  and by that point it becomes identity and ideology and that's kind of the West's way of interacting with issues now.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 13:11:35
content:
  All I can say is when I play I dont even notice the crypto my personal opinion it can be its own thing and not harm neos in the slightest.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 14:02:12
content:
  I really don't get this weird obsession of the whole "West bad" thing but whatever. As for lumping things together, we saw a definite relief in GPU prices in sync with bitcoin crashing, just because something is worse than one thing doesn't make that thing okay, "scalping culture" was a result of chip shortages plus high amounts of mining leaving an opportunity to scalp cards. Crypto has a long way to go, it'll get there, I hope, but it's not there now. This isn't "lumping things and saying it's all bad" but instead "Looking at the problems with crypto and being honest with ourselves that it ain't too hot right now."


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 14:38:03
content:
  How can I change my camera to third person? I read pressing alt should be it but it doesnt do anything.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 14:39:27
edit_date: 2022-08-15 14:39:33
content:
  from there you can hold like ctrl, with a combination of left or right click to kinda move the camera around, not sure which


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 15:41:06
content:
  well youre right that wide criticism is mostly a blessing, not sure the sector would resolve its problems without it


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 16:15:29
content:
  Japan heavily regulates 'crypto assets'. Systems with privacy focused features are banned, transactions are heavily taxed, exchanges are regulated the same way banks are. Personally, I do not see them as a good model to hold up, but the general acceptance of 'crypto assets' is understandable given how integrated they are into the traditional financial systems.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 16:52:24
edit_date: 2022-08-15 16:52:47
content:
  I'm not quite sure if (and how much) crypto really is integrated a lot in traditional financial systems I know in the professional financial world like asset management crypto is regarded as a joke.  

  I guess it does depend on what you define as traditional I know for certain that it isn't integrated in the asset management/banking world


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:34:12
content:
  Japan is heavily political and has a high variety of different movements and problems that come with this. Everything from arguments on how the economy should run, to queer activism. They are not as homogenous as you imagine.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:35:04
edit_date: 2022-08-15 17:35:42
content:
  That goes for everywhere as well outside of Japan. I can't think of any exceptions where countries aren't crazily political with different movements


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:35:48
content:
  That's what makes it frustrating when people say things like "Japan doesn't make things political." Japan just experienced a political assassination.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:49:11
edit_date: 2022-08-15 17:49:17
content:
  No theyre not. They have one of the lower percentages of registered voters and if you spent half a day comparing social media discourse between the two countries it's night and day


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:49:57
content:
  like Im not saying they dont have politics but you're out of your mind saying theyre highly politicized


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:52:30
content:
  I'm not Japanese so I can't speak for them but they aren't half as political as many western countries and not even a third of that of the US where we fight over dumb stuff like bathrooms, lol


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:54:23
edit_date: 2022-08-15 17:54:44
content:
  It's like saying Japanese are highly religious because they have religious traditions and practices... but in reality they are one of the more non-reliious countries in the world


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:55:39
content:
  What are you talking about? Japanese companies take hard political stances, and there's a lot of activism in Japan. Registered voter percentage isn't indicative of how many people care about politics. Japan even experiences strife in how they treat indigenous populations the same way the 'west' does


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 17:56:02
content:
  Don't use social media as your indicator if you don't speak Japanese, because then you can't tell me whether or not there's discourse O.o


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 18:03:33
content:
  either way this is cringey as fuck to be arguing in their stead, but I take issue with calling them highly political because by all metrics they are far less so


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 19:07:10
content:
  Consider that you're looking at this from a westerner's perspective who obviously doesn't live in the country they're speaking of. What may seem apolitical to us may be extremely political to them and vice versa. One example could be that in the US, we don't really have too much of an opinion/politics on child bearing. But in Japan, from my understanding it is very much a political topic.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 19:07:46
content:
  Like, this genuinely reads like someone whose exposure to Japan and their society comes 90% from anime.


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 20:06:43
content:
  I'm reminded with this impression I got when Dragon Quest's controversial composer Koichi Sugiyama died.. JP twitter was almost all comments of condolence for his family or gratitude for his work. EN twitter the most engaged comments were all celebration of his death and comments I remember with lots of engagement like "goodbye bitch" and other such weird logic to justify being vitriolic


type: message
date: 2022-08-15 20:19:06
edit_date: 2022-08-16 02:00:36
content:
  Politics is performed differently across different cultures, but I think it's naive to make statements about more or less political cultures. Politics boils down to questions of social structure and the flow of power, and those are fundamental questions of being in society. It is likely massively misleading to apply the metrics of liberal democratic engagement to Japan, seeing as that system being installed is sort of the result of blatant imperialism.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 09:34:36
content:
  If NCR were to have official voting powers it would had to be locked like crypto projects do these days. Check velodrome or curve for example. You lock your base token to gain locked tokens that actually give you power to vote on governance


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 09:36:35
edit_date: 2022-08-17 09:38:13
content:
  Or you could just start a voting process with all the projects shareholders/leads. Why do we need crypto for this?


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 12:27:50
edit_date: 2022-08-17 12:46:17
content:
  Absolut nothing will get done until the two people fighting for ownership figure it out. It doesn't even mather that much who wins out. If karrel takes control, its fine too and Frooxius can start under a new name and a new Neos. This standstill is the worst for all sides.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:27:25
content:
  That's actually a really good model for situations like this.

  When it's issues pertaining to the actual token, it makes sense that the token holders themselves have the voting rights, not those apathetic to it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:28:23
content:
  Like the discord vote over the burn. It was completely pointless because you just have those hostile to the concept of blockchain disrupting the vote


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:29:37
content:
  It doesn't seem to make sense to ask those who dgaf about the token to be voting on its tokenomics in cases where it doesn't really have anything to do with the gameplay


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:40:44
content:
  if a company does an initial offering and most within that company then sell their stake in that, if it has any implications


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:44:45
content:
  compounding that is the internal amount in-world, given that its held on behalf of the user until requested to be transitioned out. Would that amount be considered to be owned by the company, even if it's just holding on behalf of the users?


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:45:18
content:
  I don't know. So far the buy backs seemed to have been like the right thing. Though I don't really know


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 18:50:19
content:
  I don't think it's considered owned by the company, there's a clear ledger on Neos' side deliniating who owns what but


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 19:55:51
content:
  NEOS wont get acquired. The whole point of the ICO is to make sure no one party owns this shit. Its commercially viable for everyone and will eventually go Open Source.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 20:09:55
content:
  I think Neos will get maintained by its users if it comes to it. Its community would much likely prefer it be run by players for players as opposed to some crypto-fueled corporate entity who is focused on making big bucks instead off the NCR as opposed to making a game.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 20:15:08
content:
  Acquisition doesn't equal corporate or crypto ownership. It just means giving it back to Tomas and the devs, having a strategy and funding to execute for the long term. 
  There are some of us who believe in true decentralisation.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 20:24:53
content:
  In terms of IP, the company is co-owned 50/50. Whether there is legal paperwork beyond company information and accounts is another matter. I suspect not.

  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09279564/filing-history


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 22:39:33
content:
  True. 
  But a toxic CEO is easily removed in any acquisition, they don't have to come as part of the deal. The talent and IP itself sits with Tomas. Without him and the community to continue development it's worthless.
  But an investment under the right acquisition strategy would see this sit above pretty much every other platform that exists today. 
  It's already leagues ahead. 
  You have to ask yourself why nobody has heard of it and people want to dick around in Decentraland, Sandbox or even VRChat instead.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:14:22
content:
  Thats pretty much why we hope the outcome is that froox get control. The product (name and current software) will not get far without the one that actual made most of it


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:14:48
content:
  Its just not a finished product and so specific that it is not something that can just be taken over by other programers easily


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:16:16
content:
  But even if not, the people will go after whatever product frooxius builds pretty much, even if it would not be named neos.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:36:49
content:
  The problem isn't that people do not know about Neos, but rather that they usually stay away from the high learning curve or other unfolding events.
  VRChat is akin to the same lightning that struck Second Life and made it the juggernaut we see today: it was pure luck. There were many other platforms much like SL at the time, but they didn't get the same draw of a userbase.
  This is so much so, that when Phillip Rosedale attempted to make lightning strike twice, it failed not once, but twice. Both HiFi and Sansar failed to remain relevant, despite news coverage and heavy investments, at the time outweighing Neos and VRC combined. Despite very positive note, it wasn't met with the same welcome and soon both faded to obscurity.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:37:33
content:
  You can throw money at the problem and keep its lights on, but an empty room is an empty room, no matter how many lightbulbs you put in it


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:53:03
content:
  From what I've been able to find, HiFi intentionally pivoted away from VR to focus on spacalized audio chat. That seems more like a specific vision shift.


type: message
date: 2022-08-17 23:57:16
content:
  I think the reason that not many people know about Neos is that historically (to my understanding) the main focus was on the development of product itself and not marketing it—and that's why the community around Neos remains very close nit, supportive, and very different from some platforms you have mentioned where the process was working in reverse - first marketing and then the product.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 00:00:25
edit_date: 2022-08-18 00:01:17
content:
  Secondly, I don't think it's very effective to compare Neos with VR Chat, Decentraland or Sandbox etc as they have a different target market. Neos in its robustness is very heavily focused on creator community which naturally brings in different kind of audience than say VR Chat that has been primarily a socialising platform. Similarly Decentraland that you mention is targeting very different kind of audience with to their play-to-earn business model and heavy marketing, tokenizaition, DAO etc. Go to any metaverse conference where Decentraland has presence and you will see a very different kind of people. 

  Neither platform is necessarily better or worse in my opinion. They are just different. (Neos can definitelly beat them on their a**  when it comes to functionality however, may I be pardoned for my choice of words 😁)


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 00:21:15
edit_date: 2022-08-18 08:03:25
content:
  https://dot.la/philip-rosedale-metaverse-2657125163.html This is actually a really good interview where he talks about the issues with transition from 2D to 3D space. I agree there that Second Life was very sucessful in attracting people who really wanted to be there - and live there. But for majority of people that experience was still very limiting. And it still is. Until we have something that is very fluid, and easy, where you can very seemlesly transition from VR to base reality without massively complicated set up, the mass adoption won't happen. But it doesn't mean we should stop trying. Quite the opposite I think. And open-source will be the key. No locked in platform has a chance to be "the metaverse" .The true metaverse is something that will organically happen, gradually, not something we can force out. Just my opinion.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 01:18:24
content:
  Sansar may not have been Philips project, but the teams working on it and the HiFi group were in touch a lot. In fact, during the premiere of Ready Player One, they all went to the same theatre and talked alot before and after the movie.
  As for why he thought HiFi didn't work... well....
  https://www.highfidelity.com/backlog/requiem-for-the-hmd


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 01:19:56
content:
  (It's also a cautionary tale about just making your stuff open source and thinking that solves everything.)


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 02:19:32
edit_date: 2022-08-18 05:19:46
content:
  I agree there are a lot of issues and technical challenges with the open-source approach. We need to find a way to balance pro's and con's.

  Neos is already quite good in tackling issues that are a major hurdle for other platforms, like all the various asset formats, or versioning. It's still not completely smooth experience but we are getting there. I think standards will play a big role in the future. 

  Then open Neos could become a metaverse benchmark. You could get all these niche or large branches, all co-existing alongside, everything beautifully interconnected. Just imagine being able to acess Neos from anywhere or any device. That would be a huge step forward for the whole metaverse and web3 industry.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 02:22:11
content:
  But yes, you still have to think of  security, monetization, regulation, etc. otherwise it's a chaos. 😁Also some proprietary technology is still important because there is a (growing) base of professional and educational users. 

  You can see how challenging this is all going to be😅 but if we support the right values - the economy of creation and contribution, which Neos for all its flaws has got right, we are on a good path.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 07:20:24
content:
  Neos has to become an engine itself. Currently it's a showcase for what's possible without any roadmap. That's the problem when you have a CEO who's just an ideas man and doesn't drive a vision.

  Some of the features today are only just coming out under other startups and yet if people knew this platform existed they'd build and invest.

  To fully become the P2P decentralised platform it needs to be then it has to decouple from Unity entirely and become a new engine in its own right.
  When it's done then it's open sourced  and composable.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 08:56:10
content:
  I agree on the Unity part. It's a situational solution with many limitations. At least to my understanding as I do not claim to be an expert in that area.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 09:18:04
content:
  https://neos.com/#neos-credits
  https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/61e55a05ff9ce033ad45f7fa/62e7cc2493f3fb5fe28ffd08_Neos%20Whitepaper%20Version%201.06.pdf


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 09:22:26
content:
  There are no airdrops, all the details are in the whitepaper, if there were airdrops they'd be in the whitepaper.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 09:27:26
content:
  has there been any change regarding NCR in the past 3 months Ive just been either busy or laying flat


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 11:57:30
content:
  If anyone in the Solirax/ Neos team wants to talk acquisition/ investment HMU, or anyone in the community interested in talking too.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 13:12:17
edit_date: 2022-08-18 13:35:02
content:
  i love my time on neos so much its an amazing experience and its given me the creative means to do just about anything i wish. personally i feel its got a long way to go but i feel one day it can become the VR internet good examples is like you can open your browser and go to youtube much like logging into neos and going to a friends world so in a whole it could become the future of internet


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 13:37:34
content:
  Thank you for sharing your lovely comment. It really warms my heart hearing that Neos is enriching your life in this way. Keep enjoying it and hope to see your creations at some point!😊


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 13:57:37
content:
  im hitting a point where i might just focus on the mechanics of the MMO game inside neos. maybe pack it into an egg  like SAO and let others use it for there own games the engine is like Health bars stamina bars hunger bars attack damage defense yadda yadda you get it kinda like a DND character sheet but automated for use in games. and being able to use it in some sword fight game or swap over to a shooter game using the same engine it just sounds like fun.


type: message
date: 2022-08-18 23:54:55
edit_date: 2022-08-19 00:43:11
content:
  The heated points in the debate against NCR, taking away the whole drama away, seems to be that people would not want to be forced to use it, they want options and be able to use $.
  This is pretty ironic because irl they are fine using FIAT which is enforced on them, and in the metaverse they refuse to accept another FIAT(a currency which bases its value on legislation, in case of NCR, code[law is code])

  Irony apart, I agree with them, and anyone who understands the main why of crypto should too.
  A true metaverse requires freedom.



  Another point of those against NEOS getting in crypto is fear of regulation.
  If governments start banning cryptos in general, or come with regulations, which is more likely, it could bring some further problems and instability as the team tries to change things in order to follow the regulation.
  And if there's something they can't change then they'd have to shut it all down.



  The way to go imo, 
  is a way to introduce NEOS which is not invasive, totally invisible to those who do not wish to use it, this way looking out for those against NCR, and this way would include ways to invest in the true value of NEOS and be tied to its growth, this way looking out for teams revenue, and investors that want to fund the team in exchange for a share in the success of NEOS.


  The way I propose is for the team to make NCR a token to share the revenue NEOS generates, a sort of DAO, but that's just using a buzzword used to define a system where tokens have also voting power.
  In cases of a DAO, it requires that everytime a proposal  is passed, it is automatically executed and fulfilled by the code, in order to fit the definition.
  We can't do that in this case so the votes and proposals would just end up being suggestions that the team is invited to take into consideration, but not forced in any way to fulfill, since its not real shares of a publicly listed company.

  the team could also make their own AMM (an example of AMM is Uniswap)
  which is used ingame to settle transactions. People in game can hold, spend, demand to be used as their payment whatever currency they choose.
  The NEOS AMM would convert the currencies as a service, taking a fee from the spender and redistributing the fees to NCR stakers.
  The selling of storage for NCR would also continue, but without removing patreon until you have a way for people to pay using fiat from your official website.
  Then that is to be distributed to NCR stakers aswell, of course, you decide what % to dedicate to investors, and each staker gets a % relative to their staked amount.

  Afterall, this is investing, this is the definition of it, funding a company with cash today, in exchange for a share of the profits, which with your contribution, you hope will increase and grow.

  Everything else is just speculation, not investing.
  When you buy NCR right now you are just speculating, not investing.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 06:24:42
edit_date: 2022-08-19 07:15:45
content:
  Take a look at Entropia Universe if you've never heard of it. Even Linden Dollars never required a cryptocurrency to support the creator economy. 

  NCR has failed because of its design, the fact that there is also a Patreon set up shows that the money made from the ATH wasn't reinvested into the platform, it just went on a lavish lifestyle.
  When you list an inworld currency on an external exchange you lose control over the economics. That's why Axie and everything x-to-earn has failed and is unsustainable. 

  DAOs are a joke. The only one I've seen working effectively is BitDAO because the governance model works and the community is active. I don't see anything here to suggest this would work for Neos, especially in terms of governance.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 07:54:03
content:
  How many concurrent users can Neos support at any one time? Interesting that with the distributed architecture there's unlimited potential vs claims from players like Improbably or RP1 with the traditional client-server set up that can host 2000-4000 people in a single shard.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 10:11:36
content:
  Problem is less on how many people can fit in a high end headless client and more of "at what point do people's frame rate become too unbearable." Even with p2p connections, networked tasks are not an issue.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 10:54:16
content:
  With a good culling system in place, it should be doable to host 30+ sessions when the users are spreaded out. We are often above 20 in the meetups


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 11:02:20
edit_date: 2022-08-19 11:02:30
content:
  The 40+ was like a year ago without a culling systems and lowpoly avatars only with everyone as spectators... I thiink it was something around 52 peeps and we utilized the servers gbit connection nearly fully out


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 11:06:00
content:
  Oh we had several attempts were people just wanted to test out their headlesses. We usually had invited all each other and just tried to join.
  It was nice, first we were surprised we could reach over 20. Months later over 30 and then with low poly avatars way higher.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 12:11:23
edit_date: 2022-08-19 12:12:38
content:
  Yeah, I specified the "Fear of gov regulations or bans" as the 2nd point.
  I guess I forgot to specify that other than the team, it can also affect the players.

  And for those referencing Linden dollars, or other centralized virtual currencies, the governments usually regulates those too.
  "Crypto" is just a technology which dictates how the currency behaves and moves from nodes.
  But in my country , for example I would need to pay taxes on Linden Dollars too, and whatever virtual currency that is convertible into real world FIAT.
  What falls under scrutiny and regulation is usually " virtual currencies", and it just happens that most of the time, virtual currencies use crypto technology.
  so, making up a centralized systems  copying robux or linden dollars is not a way to move away from this issue.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 12:14:36
content:
  It looks like most of the comments on my points didnt read it fully, just skimmed through the buzzwords and assumed what I meant :L


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 12:17:45
edit_date: 2022-08-19 12:23:45
content:
  I criticized DAOs and I get messages criticizing DAOs , assumed I was praising them and saying that they are a good and possible idea.
  Whereas in the message I made it very clear that I used DAO as a buzzword to summon its ideals, and explain how it would not work.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 12:23:30
content:
  there are many "cryptos" that call themselves that and then there's nothing crypto about them, they work exactly like linden dollars, centralized systems.
  Crypto and Virtual currencies have melted together these past years, because an outstanding majority of virtual currencies, are using crypto technology.
  It would be like confusing FIAT currency with paper bills/banknotes, which look like  banknotes backed by gold, which are NOT FIAT.

  So, what falls under regulation and scrutiny is often Virtual Currencies, they could care less about the technology behind them, if there is some hamster on a wheel managing the transactions, if it's a blockchain, centralized server.
  As long as you can get them with real money, make transactions, and then convert them back into real money, they want to regulate it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 12:24:08
edit_date: 2022-08-19 12:24:15
content:
  Most people don't realise that a DAO is still plagued with very human problems despite trying to force a technology solution into it.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 13:47:59
edit_date: 2022-08-21 05:13:51
content:
  situation still depressing as ever then. Devs had a huge opportunity they missed scooping up VRCs market after the anticheat update


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 13:51:40
content:
  sometimes better to bite the bullet and take advantage of opportunities especially when its a competitor showing weakness


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 13:55:25
content:
  kinda brutalist I know. Thats just how you think when you grow up hungry I guess. Imma go eat cuz I can


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 13:56:36
content:
  I guess. I think we still have gotten quite a bit of impact despite the situation. Neos is still far from mass ready though, we'd still have to wait on updates for awhile before the other platform's players were happy. Which is why I don't think if devs were to suddenly start updating in reaction to VRC, that we would be getting any more players than we already have.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 14:11:12
edit_date: 2022-08-19 14:11:27
content:
  Mhm, and I think that was a great testing phase for many people, just to see what the platform was like, chillout's participation was rather similar with a spike and also retaining a smaller amount. Now how long can we keep the current people if we don't have updates, how many care or don't care to see updates? Neos at least has a lot of tools to attend to the needs of advanced players


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 14:18:32
content:
  Uh... No? Linden dollar is only taxed on cash out, and based only on that. It does not matter how old your balance is or you purchased it at a specific rate.
  You literally get tax forms from Tilia based on what they reported to the US government, and thus leave it up to you to handle things based on that.
  Not saying it is an ultimate solution, but clarifying the example given.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 14:19:45
content:
  they dont even specify the word "crypto" anywhere.
  it's about virtual currency and money laundering prevention


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 14:20:44
content:
  again, "crypto" is just the infrastructure, the technology that some virtual currencies decide to use for ruling their transaction mechanism.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 14:37:24
edit_date: 2022-08-19 14:37:41
content:
  But let's not get lost arguing in semantics, the point is that Virtual Currencies require government regulation, regardless of the technology used to operate transactions,supply etc.

  So the main concern of the debate that I pointed out, the fear of NEOS team getting in trouble dealing with cryptos, or even singular NEOS players getting in trouble having held cryptocurrencies, is extended to every kind of virtual currency that can be purchased and then sold.
  As they pose risks felt by the government like fiscal evasion, money laundering.


  So that is not a reason that makes one better than the other, they are both virtual currencies and risk facing the same scrutiny.


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 16:25:04
content:
  A new nation will be forged from the ashes of society. The old school has no future, to resist progress Is to stagnate and wither


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 16:29:33
content:
  The future only holds fatality for those stuck in the ways of the oppresor. Negativity breeds internal decay. We will succeed in time


type: message
date: 2022-08-19 16:39:33
content:
  anyway, I sent Jabberz a contact request as well, so I can attempt to send that way. I'm busy at work, so just poke me if they do add me and I can gift it shortly after notification (just have to waltz over to my Steamdeck for that)


type: message
date: 2022-08-21 08:27:50
edit_date: 2022-08-21 09:00:33
content:
  Works fine if you don't use the mouse for looking around
  https://twitter.com/FlameSoulis/status/1561071882731937793


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 12:48:24
content:
  Hey guys, any core member available to discuss regarding a strategic partnership, we are a metaverse HUB that aiming to bring all EARN/METAVERSE projects into a HUB.

  Our metaverse Alpha Completed with Over 50 Projects Partnered with us 🤝


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 13:29:11
content:
  When you start neos, your client opens two worlds in the beginning. Both of them are your Home. The first one is the local home, the second one that you stay inside after logging into Neos is your cloud home. That question asks, if any changes should be saved to both of these homes


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 15:23:44
content:
  As far as i know, the local home does not save to cloud, that also is true for any content you only safe there. This can be advantagious or lead to data loss...


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 15:26:35
content:
  There was no inventory in the start. To see what that's like start the scratch space world template the reason it existed was so you could go get the tools and stuff you needed


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 15:27:11
content:
  In any case, it can be an advantage if you WANT to actually store things only locally, like big videos when you don't have enough storage, different versions or things you work on unoptimized (again, with limited cloud storage) or as a storage place for things you delete from inventory to save space. In any case its an important difference if the local home is actually used as a home and not just as preload-world (kept empty)


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 15:35:28
edit_date: 2022-08-22 15:35:35
content:
  local storage is not suited for larger assets like videos. Local assets cannot be streamed, they have to be downloaded always. At least Neos seems to prefer connections that are not focused to use for sending data


type: message
date: 2022-08-22 15:38:50
edit_date: 2022-08-23 23:01:42
content:
  if it wants to acquire a local asset, it looks through all connected worlds, whether they are hosted by the asset owner (machine id) or the asset owner is connected to. Then it chooses an unfocused world to send the request or as a fallback the focused world. I don't remember if the algorithm prefers connections with a single hop than two


type: message
date: 2022-08-24 23:48:25
content:
  Now I wish Telegram had an instant  "gob-smacked"😮 emoji button. This is super impressive! I can't wait to see more of your work. Please share with us☺️


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:17:06
content:
  Happy Friday, everyone!☺️

  I am curious if some of you have been toying around with DALL·E 2 as a source of creative inspiration. I think for virtual content creators and especially avatar creators, this brings so many possibilities - I personally see it as an amazing way to concept faster and generate ideas and variations really fast...


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:17:40
content:
  Here is my take on "half unicorn-half human hybrid with pink bunny ears is looking at starry sky".

  Who is willing to turn it into a Neos avatar?!😁😁😁


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:18:09
edit_date: 2022-08-26 02:19:16
content:
  I've been playing with it, although sometimes my ideas are too specific to find what I want with it. But it's great for getting general concepts


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:22:46
content:
  I find it amazing that dall e 2 can create so much visual noise that you can understand what you are looking at, but if you zoom in at the specifics, none of it makes sense


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:24:34
edit_date: 2022-08-26 02:31:30
content:
  Wonder if a link image will work... https://prnt.sc/WpMf8GKYkuFL
  "futuristic industrial city that is surrounded by a dome built out of transparent orange hexagonal panels, digital art"
  This one out of the 4 didnt have a dome, but its a neat concept regardless


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 02:34:02
edit_date: 2022-08-26 02:34:41
content:
  That is true, I think it doesn't really understand logic yet or context. We have to wait for AGI a few more years 😁


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 06:08:39
edit_date: 2022-08-26 10:27:08
content:
  "For my existence has been an unending stream of broken dreams and I have nothing left to live for but death itself."


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 06:10:53
content:
  that is awesome! I'd try to take it even further...you could turn it into a portrait itself, made out of portraits😃


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 06:15:05
content:
  We are forming a nice little collection of AI generated art here, I think it calls for a Neos exhibition soon! 😁


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 10:34:56
edit_date: 2022-08-29 05:11:15
content:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rvAKRWC82g&ab_channel=ThrillSeeker I just saw that video and it is quite extensive about neos, Karel and Tomas. İs the guy player in Neos who made the video?


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 11:04:06
content:
  You mean Thrill's avatar? They usually have the anime avatar with horns and white/grey designed outfit


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 12:21:26
edit_date: 2022-08-26 21:33:46
content:
  Local assets always need to be downloaded before viewing. Additionally the local asset has to be uploaded (sent) to each of the people in the session from the user who has said local asset. At the very least, to the host.

  More Ideally a video would be saved to the Neos cloud inventory so that all users can download it faster and the user sharing the video only needs to upload the video once. Also assumes they go to their home world or another session with no one else when spawning the video in from local assets/their pc to then save it to their cloud inventory.


type: message
date: 2022-08-26 21:27:03
content:
  im smiles - im a live visual artist(VJ)  / founder of a few coins / NFT developer / 2D3D/AR/XR designer / virtual world builder and hybrid virtual experiential event producer ... oh and i make dank meme's ... oh and a farmer lol ... and just was playin with neos for first time ... im likin some of what i see yall


type: message
date: 2022-08-29 00:14:56
content:
  Most in-world discussions occur in the Discord. Sometimes you do get talks in here, but it is infrequent.


type: message
date: 2022-08-29 21:10:37
content:
  Hi, everyone! I'm new to Neos and it's great to meet you all. It's been a lot of fun exploring and creating in Neos!


type: message
date: 2022-08-29 22:15:46
content:
  Hi Tino, are you on the Neos Discord? That's a more active place to talk about the game itself and to get any assistance with using Neos


type: message
date: 2022-08-29 22:16:39
content:
  Not yet! Just saw a comment earlier about the Discord. Is it a private or public link to join the Discord?


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 01:44:33
content:
  Hi everyone,

  I found this neat little software which might come handy for those of you who like anime-like avatars and want a degree of control over how they look, without necessarily having to do it all from scratch. 

  It's quite customizable, and it's free. https://vroid.com/en/studio

  The only real hurdle has been importing .vrm to Neos. Does anyone have good workflow suggestion on how to best import these type of files? 

  My workflow so far has been pushing them through Blender to .fbx using a python script. But somehow it's not linking the skin and hair correctly in Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 02:29:18
edit_date: 2022-08-31 02:48:23
content:
  https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin typically can help. Can't really assist troubleshooting without seeing then specific model in neos, but I am guessing that 'not linking the skin and hair correctly' means that those models have separate armatures. That can be resolved by using this feature of the plugin: https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin#merge-armatures
  I also recommend exporting as glb. Vrm is actually an extension of glb.


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 04:18:26
content:
  There was a github request for VRM native support, but it was dismissed until licensing features were fully completed.


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 09:03:36
edit_date: 2022-08-31 15:28:29
content:
  vrm is just a glb with avatar extensions. Neos could be extended to vrm import to import fully functional avatars skipping the Avatar creator. So a vrm could be dragged into Neos in the future


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 09:42:40
content:
  "As previously discussed on Discord, one of the parts of VRM is licensing information on how the avatar can be used and distributed. Currently that information would be lost during import, which can be problematic, so I don't plan on integrating it until then."


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 10:06:59
content:
  Ahh, however one could check on import the licensing information, if it is compatible to use in Neos as public avatars and then import it, cause exporting isn't really possible anyway


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 15:20:50
edit_date: 2022-09-02 09:02:33
content:
  Very late but yes, do not trust reactant. Reactant lied to everyone, selling ncr while saying he hadn't sold any. Man is not to be trusted. People who like crypto and people like me who don't can both agree that he is not a trustworthy source of information


type: message
date: 2022-08-31 19:28:33
content:
  Yes you can import a vrm most of the time by just renaming it to gFTL and then it should work most of the time


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 01:39:21
content:
  I guess that would be simplest solution although I am curious how effective that is. Renaming worked for blender just fine so perhaps it is possible but I think some information is lost this way because for instance, the details such as outlines were not imported properly. (Probably more my lack of know-how than anything else.) Also there is some strange behaviour when it's turned into an avatar in Neos. 😁


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 01:40:22
content:
  I know CATS has some VROID optimizations, and I've heard from past stories that native VROID models tend to... act weird unless you tweak them in advance.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 01:40:52
content:
  oh, that. I've seen that a lot. It's adjustable in the eye manager. Unity uploaded avatars have the maximum angles specified during setup. Neos, uh... well... doesn't do this.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 01:53:39
content:
  Yes I think so, I tried that CATS plug-in last night but I think there are probably more issues with that model than armature. It kind of broke the whole thing down 😁. Nevermind, it's part of learning. However, what is most important is that we identify which parts of the avatar creation process are the most painful, so they can be iterated on in the future. I think some people would appreciate little less steep learning curve and less customisation while others enjoy digging deep in scripting and all that jazz. I love Neos for that reason. It's like this Swiss knife of VR  😁


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:07:51
content:
  Some stuff to ponder..I have been watching the latest video of Thrill.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5DVE0Wq94E . At the end he talks about "metaverse hype" and I was wondering if you guys feel the same way. Is the term "metaverse" overused? Do you think that it has gotten bad connotations? I often avoid it when explaining to people what Neos is.

  I think we have this habit as humans... labelling things, which is necessary for us to make sense to the environment we live in, but also can be limiting as once there is a label, you lock yourself into some sort of definition and things are not fluid anymore. And there are expectations and assumptions.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:09:22
content:
  But fortunately Neos has been around way before metaverse was marketed to us as "the next big thing" and I am confident that it will withstand the pressure of this label - because it has value for users. 
  People go into great lenghts of learning how to work with Neos, because even though it can be overwhelming, they see the value.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:10:07
content:
  Oh the term is definitely overused, although I feel like it is has been calming down as its value has become...less interesting I suppose. Oversaturated term doesn't mean much anymore for marketing


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:12:08
content:
  Yes I totally agree. I think the wave of wanna-be metaverses where people promise everything and nothing is hopefully over.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:14:28
edit_date: 2022-09-01 04:15:03
content:
  I think Neos has plenty of development timeline ahead of it to just kinda see past the term. Maybe in the future the word can be used sanely again to describe Neos


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:16:19
content:
  Here's my take on it, being the oldie I am with "the metaverse," is that no one has it figured out. Like, no one. Part of it is because that's like saying that Google, Amazon, and other website services are somehow the world wide web.
  When I have envisioned the metaverse, back when I was compiling clients to early access back in 2016 (in Fedora Linux because the Windows build was terrible), I always viewed it as an agreed upon protocol between everyone. The idea being that if I laser onto an entity, be it in Desktop, VR, or by action caused by some other device, that the message is sent to a system and acted upon in events as scripted by the connected service. Objects that are sent for displaying are all following an agreed upon format (GLTF) and the textures are follow ups to the old W3's standard (JPG,GIF,PNG,etc.) but also ones meant to further compliment the systems we have now (KTX).


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:18:28
content:
  Right now, when I spin up a web server, I can choose from Nginx, Apache, or just flat out code my own. As long as I speak HTTP at minimum, then I can assume any web browser who speaks the same protocol can talk with my server. Any client who speaks HTTP can speak with any web server as well. As such, we have not one web browser, but many. Chrome, Edge, Mozilla, Brave, and even just the ability to render the page in plain text with Lynx, means that transfer of information is in agreement with everyone.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:20:07
content:
  From the technical term, I'd have to agree that Neos is not a metaverse either. Even Neos has to rely on other services to run. I do wonder what the extreme future plans of neos are, if it ever will become some sort of decentralized tool. (Which right now I'd say it never will, buuuut I don't know that)


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:25:20
content:
  More or less. Even Second Life cannot hold that title, despite being open source. Just releasing the source code doesn't magically mean you are now an open protocol. Explanations, deep dives on how packets work, the API of what makes a system function are all critical.
  Not to mention, the implications of security. Currently, only certain pieces of identity data can be sent to servers. As the 'metaverse' seems to be commonly envisioned, the communication is more bidirectional than just a one way 'here's your web page'. Walk around in any platform, and your actions get sent back to then be relayed to others. The more sensors we attach, the more data we give, and this is broadcasted data. We freak out now when so much as a geolocation is given out, but now imagine our exact movements, facial expressions, and all that are technically all out there, and for anyone to collect.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:31:53
content:
  All true, but from all VR softwares i tried, neos comes the closest to "do whatever you like with it". You can mod it with pure c#, you can even go online on the public servers with added binaries (you have to make sure it doesn't desyncs, that on you), you can even completly change how it works and open it with an own service server OR even simply local without any internet service attached


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:33:39
content:
  I'm... not sure I can exactly delve into my background with that, but put simply: Seen it before, and while true, that isn't enough.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:34:13
content:
  Yes I agree it's an absolutely terrifying idea. I've seen Phillip Rosedale mention it a lot in his latest interviews, too. Imagine how smart the metaverse advertising will get, if we allow it.
  You'll have no idea what's genuine and what's being served to you by algorithms and AI. Decentralisation is important. But I would argue that complete 100% decentralisation is also not achievable. It's like all the current DAOs of the world. We know that the system we currently have is not good enough but do I think that putting everyhing on blockchain and making every single aspect of our existence decentralised? No. We are still figuring it out. The same way I don't think we can have an accurate picture of what will become of "metaverse"


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:35:57
content:
  Reminds me heavily of back when there he discussed  towards having your movements recorded and sort of 'averaged' out, so that when in Desktop mode or a non-VR system, your 'body' movements were faked to help create a unique animation set, specific to yourself.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:36:00
content:
  But for sure it's all about interoperability. I think that is what you are getting at here. It needs to be all interconnected. We need to be able to access our virtual content from anywhere, anytime. Until then it's not a real metaverse.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:40:15
content:
  Yes I think that is the one I watched too. And where he also talks about aesthetic in virtual reality no? About how most of people prefer the "average looking avatars" and they find them most attractive/beauriful in comparison with something unique and specific. That is going to totally mess with our sense of body image.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:41:34
content:
  that must have been back during the times he was going to Siggraph, but I only 'watched' one, and that was because I was in the audience. The other times I just talked to him directly about it in-world or on Slack


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 04:43:37
content:
  I can't honestly put my finger on the year, though. It could have been around early 2018 or late 2017. It was around the time when a cloud based voice transcription service was being tinkered with, and thus the discussion on AI systems and how they can be integrated came up


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 09:52:29
content:
  True, but I could see others seeing an opportunity here of creating a similar project but with much easier adoption curve. Like giving an opportunity to program using already popular coding languages


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 10:18:09
content:
  I know a group is trying to bring back a platform that used javascript as its scripting          language, but being similar and being actually used aren't the same.


type: message
date: 2022-09-01 19:56:53
content:
  Logix is cool, but it definitely has room for improvement. Readability could be increased just by having nodes lock to a 2d plane.


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 00:02:06
content:
  In some sense, other node based visual programming systems already offer this
  https://imgur.com/3M7SAMp


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 00:09:37
content:
  Make sure you're keeping in mind that Logix in its current state isn't finished.

  I've seen some users say Logix should be removed because it doesn't have xyz, when it just isn't finished. There's a difference between "We need a replacement because Logix is bad" and "We'd like alternative languages"


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 00:12:03
content:
  For me, I'd prefer to keep Logix, but I can see lateral ways to improve it, while keeping its intended spirit, if you will. So far, any limitations I've run into are strictly with the platform itself, and only because others have made the task less tedius. However, those haven't really stopped me from doing the usual "Just work around it" solution


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 00:13:39
edit_date: 2022-09-02 02:47:05
content:
  I'm used to working with limited features and making the most of it. In some regards, I almost say that's what has caused such discord with some creators, who grew up with every paint color available, but not realizing people have mixed their own colors forever and find the task inconvenient when presented as the only option.


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 05:08:58
content:
  Even on its finished state it would be great to offer other languages that can be written and compile to logix


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 20:47:31
content:
  Maby you can help i want to try Sendung the data/worldcolor1 with websoket to my nod Red, the websoket is not the problem but my problem is to covert the incoming stream to colors for lamps


type: message
date: 2022-09-02 21:33:14
content:
  Hmm.. I'll look into it. Depends on how the RGB lights work, but I have some strips connected, so I can figure it out after the funeral service I am going to


type: message
date: 2022-09-04 09:52:03
content:
  Hi Hualili!

  If you are referring to the current dispute, when we have an update, we'll share it via all our official channels. ☺️

  In the meantime, we hope that you enjoy Neos. And if you have any platform/NCR related comments I’m sure people here or on Discord will be happy to chat ☺️


type: message
date: 2022-09-05 07:13:54
edit_date: 2022-09-05 11:09:32
content:
  Hello all. Happy Monday 😊Is anyone looking to go to the TGS next week? https://tgs.nikkeibp.co.jp/tgs/2022/en/ . I think it will be a nice event. I am not able to go (physically) unfortunatelly but I think they also do VR event in a paralel. Might be worth checking out.😊


type: message
date: 2022-09-05 18:19:06
edit_date: 2022-09-05 21:38:10
content:
  Would it be possible to come up with some kind of joint update about where are things heading? Or will the community just have to be patient and wait for what seems like a year or more in total darkness?


type: message
date: 2022-09-07 10:36:49
edit_date: 2022-09-07 12:21:03
content:
  Don't think so. Pretty much no official mention of it in discord so fairly safe to say no they aren't.


type: message
date: 2022-09-07 17:28:32
content:
  Concurrent user numbers were only that high during the temporary influx after VRChat announced and released EAC. They've gone down but there has been a net gain of users since then.


type: message
date: 2022-09-07 17:30:49
content:
  I've been told that VRChat users have already found ways around EAC, so anyone who's willing to continue breaking that rule are likely doing so.


type: message
date: 2022-09-07 21:04:03
content:
  ...sadly so. I have been getting messaged by friends of mine who don't even want to go near Neos, yet have told me the number of issues on VRChat have gotten very out of control.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:05:45
edit_date: 2022-09-08 07:10:28
content:
  Varying reasons.

  1) Most friends of mine have potato PCs, so despite owning an HMD, they can't really use Neos.
  2) The ongoing situation has them weary about rejoining.
  3) They want to have their avatars work exactly as it did advertised. This means that the only way to get them to work as such is if I help them out. Problem is that I'm busy enough as is, and they don't exactly know/trust other people.
  4) Due to the rules of the telegram group, I can't really explain #4 as it could be viewed as fud.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:24:44
content:
  Another reason to add is that friend circles are anchors, unless the lead of the circle or the majority of the circle wants to switch platforms, users tend to keep to the same platform.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:26:21
content:
  We saw an influx of folks but I asked if it was just their decision to try Neos or their entire group is trying Neos and many responded that they were by themselves with one or two others - but the majority of their friends were still on VRChat.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:29:24
content:
  For me, I was on VRChat for about 6 months before another friend said I should try Neos. I had very few people I regularly hung out regularly with on VRChat so my move to Neos was easy for me, but if had a lot of friends on VRChat, I might have never moved to Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:30:41
edit_date: 2022-09-08 17:12:27
content:
  There's also stereotypes of Neos users that all we want to do is build (I mean, they're not wrong..) but there are a lot of VR users that prefer to just consume content and one could easily argue that there's more to consume on VRChat


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:34:10
content:
  I can agree with those points. It's sadly also what creates a larger chunk of my frustration. It's a cycle that self fulfills itself: less content, so less people. less people, so less content. This occurred before and instead of creating agreements to longer lasting things, most events (of the past elsewhere) were all in regards to 'large cash money' prizes.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:35:41
content:
  Even outside of that, a major issue is that bringing avatars into Neos is both easier and harder. It's easy from a generic standpoint, but people who do have avatars usually have them with functions and systems. These don't always translate over well, since some can be platform dependant. In some way, you could see this being an issue in both directions: A neos avatar may have functions VRC can't even fathom, but a VRC avatar might have an easier time adding a specific function than doing the same in Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:36:37
content:
  And yes, I know you can do things like JSON loading sorcery with mods for Neos, but that's involving extra steps on top of the extra steps, assuming said extra steps on either side are willing to be followed or even exist.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:38:44
edit_date: 2022-09-08 07:38:50
content:
  despite (if I remember) Chillout having slightly lower numbers, people can directly port content to it because it's all within the Unity scene editor with just a change in SDK. Neos doesn't have this luxory, and so people aren't just seperated from their friends, but also what some have come to acknowledge as their identity. Even then, they might not have been the ones to setup their avatar in the first place, and thus have no idea where to even start.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:39:44
content:
  This happened with both HiFi and Sansar, who tried to appeal to the Second Life crowd to migrate over. People were unwilling to leave SL for better experiences because their avatars and content were locked to their platform of origin. In some way, Neos faces the same issue.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:42:42
content:
  Slightly related, but not really: In a recent tweet regarding VRChat avatar ripping (the thing that got my IMs blaring), someone pointed out a fact I actually didn't think about, and that was an observation that many people who were using public avatars were Quest users. While this could be just due to the age demographic, someone pointed out that because the Quest doesn't require a PC, people who are using it might not have a system ready (or willing) to run the Unity editor, and thus cannot upload avatars themselves, even if they can afford them. Different topic, but just a strange observation that makes some sense.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:43:27
content:
  And the lack of custom shaders.. I've heard how disappointed some users are that their avatar won't look the same as it does in VRChat. I even helped users import avatars that were visually broken because they depended on some bizarre projection shader and going without it would break the character.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:43:53
content:
  This is the whole argument for interoperability and possibly why platforms like Ready Player Me have secured so much funding and interest.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:44:48
content:
  The more custom a platform becomes the less likely it will appeal if you can move seamlessly across different worlds


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:47:57
content:
  I remember RPM from its infancy days. Hell, I fixed the bridging problem when it was on HiFi. It was honestly something they should have fixed, since it was kind of outside the platform's control... but the TLDR was I could get avatars to properly work on it, back when it had the VRC portal and the HiFi portal


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:50:44
content:
  IN a way, this is also why I don't like many VRC avatars: shaders haven't become an addition to an avatar, but rather a bandaid to bad and sloppy designs. It's like Second Life and normal maps... namely the lack of them being used and everyone worshipping subdivide like it is a new religion. As a result, everything there was mega high poly... and was why porting to Sansar and the like wasn't an option. In a sense, VRC avatars only work in VRC at times because they were made with janky design in mind, rather than a correct workflow.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:50:47
content:
  They've just raised about 50m, they have so many brands working with them now. 
  My main problem with all these one size fits all solutions is they're all human avatars. 
  And avatars need to be where all permissions and personal info is set for portability etc.
  Avatars are your metaverse identity platform, not wallets.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:52:00
content:
  In addition, too much of RPM's rigging is... questionable. I get it's automated, but even some things that are done as templates.. like, there shouldn't be these kind of issues. I've had broken wrists and unrigged vertices be the big ones


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:52:59
content:
  For you and me this is important, for people in marketing who want their Tommy Hilfiger t-shirt to sell to people they don't care.


type: message
date: 2022-09-08 07:55:48
content:
  sadly so. Which is often a shame, because just a few tweaks and it'd be fixed. I've often considerred looking into 'simple' fixes for RPM avatars, such as detail maps to liven them up, but it's been a mixed bag. It's been a far fall from grace from their earlier years


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 07:11:16
edit_date: 2022-09-09 13:13:29
content:
  Very sad to learn this morning that Queen Elizabeth II, has passed away. My condolences are with all of you community members of the United Kingdom. 🖤

  I think regardless of your stand on  the monarchy, she was an example of grace, resilience and strength and such an iconic example of leadership for the whole world.


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 16:57:15
content:
  I wonder whether distributed computing would ever scale to this?

  https://twitter.com/HermanNarula/status/1568273463517024256?t=9-PoRB42Gxuh-d6vELz-cg&s=19


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 22:47:44
content:
  Are these events open for individuals and/or teams? I just saw that acronym for the first time today.


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 22:52:13
content:
  Since the rules aren't hammered out for 2023, that's subject to change but I assume it will be similar to 2022. I recommending joining the Creator Jam discord for MMC info as it becomes available or to ask any additional questions.


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 22:52:45
content:
  One of the most important rules is that work cannot begin until the event officially starts. What's defined as work is outlined in the rules.


type: message
date: 2022-09-09 22:54:09
content:
  Much appreciated... it'll be fun to meet and connect with more of the community. I've just found about Neos for a month now or so.


type: message
date: 2022-09-12 10:04:01
content:
  Hello, could someone tell me if something is to be expected for NCR with the merge of the ETH blockchain ?


type: message
date: 2022-09-12 13:54:43
content:
  The main positive for NCR is the lower transfer costs. Other than that, hoping that nothing goes incredible wrong with ETH, there is no relation to the backend currency. Its just the contract platform.


type: message
date: 2022-09-12 13:56:02
edit_date: 2022-09-12 14:01:24
content:
  If something would go very wrong with it, this could negativity impact ncr, as the backend systems stability would be in question


type: message
date: 2022-09-13 07:14:43
content:
  I don't link it in messages as a sort of anti-phising mechanism. If you only ever get it from the website you're safer in that no one is impersonating me or any community member when they link it.


type: message
date: 2022-09-14 16:28:58
content:
  Hello, I'm Rev, a Listing Agent from Bitmart. I would like to discuss about listing. Who's the right person to talk to?


type: message
date: 2022-09-16 00:32:45
edit_date: 2022-09-16 06:46:40
content:
  Hello @Lonelypro and @Alex_A_avali , just a courtesy reminder that the communication in this channel should be conducted in English only. Please refer to our Telegram chat rules, if not sure☺️. https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Telegram (Also pinned in this channel). Many thanks 😊


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 04:35:56
content:
  😁@wonfiddy While I am charmed by this proposal and I am sure my dress and ring would be nothing short of spectacular, I will have to politely decline, and I think you understand why I have to point out that this type of messages is innapropriate for this channel, so if it reoccurs, it will be deleted. But girl appreciates the compliment, thanks😁


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 04:42:10
content:
  How is everyone doing over here? I hope your weekends were fun (and games). Who's got their eyes on the new Quest Pro btw? Impressive specs but pricey. Definitelly curious once that comes out.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 04:50:14
edit_date: 2022-09-20 05:00:12
content:
  Stressed, but good. Worked on two avatars this weekend, on for a friend and one for someone who needed help getting their textures. Was fairly productive.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 05:02:23
content:
  Amazing, I hope the joy of your work and helping your friend out-balances the stress.🙂 Do you do avatar comissions by a chance then?


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 05:08:53
edit_date: 2022-09-20 05:09:48
content:
  Sure! I'm still pretty new at it, but I'm sure I can figure something out with enough googling and fumbling through the menus XD


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 05:20:51
edit_date: 2022-09-20 06:07:49
content:
  No problem thank you, I know what you mean about googling. I think Neos and Google/YouTube should come as one package 😆 Luckily people are amazing with tutorials. I hope this is something that can be in time made into more conscise format so people have one very strong and informative go-to source (alongside wiki). Like a Neos Academy. I have watched hours an hours of various online classes and different tutorials and I think we can absolutely do it right and nail it. Once the window of opportunity is opened again. 😊🤞


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 06:10:56
content:
  I've just been busy trying to get my SteamDeck to stream more directly in Neos, minimizing latency as much as possible, while also redoing an avatar to have additional features, but remain flexible so that the modifications are safe for upgrades


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 06:50:58
content:
  Great work with the availability with tutorials. Do you think there's  a need and benefit for 3D walkthroughs? I've enjoyed learning quite a bit learning and creating within Neos, and I might be able to produce some meaningful content tutorials to support the community!


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 06:54:48
content:
  technically speaking, many video tutorials could be brought into Neos with a simple menu system that and just have recorded links that updates a video player.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:15:05
content:
  Yes i am going to buy it along with the pico neo 4 pro which also got eye tracking hopefully someone will add a mod to Neos with both headset face tracking support soon


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:44:00
content:
  I think that 3D walkthroughs are a fantastic idea, and if they could be accessed inside of Neos, even better. 

  What is usually quite challenging is having to switch on and off VR, take the headset off, watch the tutorial—for myself, for instance, this is quite bothersome as I have to wear glasses inside of the headset.

  With more advanced headsets and AR properties this might be less of an issue in the future however.

  But as for the tutorials themselves—there are a lot of very good tutorials out there already but what is lacking is certain learning pathways people could follow I think.

  Creating structured categories and learning journeys people could follow, lesson after lesson, with downloadable assets, notes and practical exercises would be something that would help a lot of people to grasp Neos faster depending on what they want to use it for..


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:45:03
content:
  We would have to think it through of course - for instance... having Neos Creator pathway - and there you could follow along virtual subgroups like Create your first Avatar, Build the house of your dreams etc..each of these would have series of shorter neat videos, with key points and takeways etc. 

  Then you can have another pathway - Become Neos Streaming Star (I am literally just brainstorming here, I am sure people can come with better and less lame titles😁) And here we teach how to use Neos for... for instance I don't know...virtual singing😁 - I have seen a few of you singing with your avatars and I thought it was great fun...etc etc.

  Then Neos Edu - Run Your First Virtual class, simulation etc etc.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:46:25
content:
  reminds me a bit of when I had to look over HiFi's tutorials before they were sent out to the public. Engineering team often focused too much on the 'hip new features' to the point they forgot to explain how to move... still remember that meeting and more or less slamming the team at the end of it


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:46:27
content:
  And whole category itself could be dedicated to Advanced modules like LogiX - Become LogiX expert.

  I think a lot can be done, with some willingness and cooperation. It just needs proper planning, as this is not a small task. And just to clarity, I am not speaking for the current team or their approach to this in here, it's just something I would quite like to see and get in place if given the opportunity and help of the community.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:47:58
content:
  You almost have to make yourself forget everything you know and think like if you are explaining to 5 year old child 😁


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:50:38
edit_date: 2022-09-20 09:51:54
content:
  Well... not only that, but it also just depends on the tutorial itself. There are tutorials with 'Yeah I get it' notifications, that some users dislike, and others who prefer them and don't want to have to guess/discover the next thing to do.

  Personally, I prefer interactive ones that guide the user on how to do something, but allow room for experimentation in a safe environment. If the user is taking too long to figure something out, then add more clues to nudge in the right direction. For example, you can natively guide users via visuals as means of 'directions to go' and color coding to help visualize separation of things without walls.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:50:49
content:
  awesome please share with us your experience once you get it, I think it's a very tempting purchase, but not one I can easily justify to myself 😆


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:51:07
edit_date: 2022-09-20 09:51:58
content:
  Like HiFi, however, Neos is also usable in Desktop mode, and I feel any new tutorial made would have to have a split path due to input differences.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:52:34
content:
  The thing about most tutorials I've seen is that they aren't really scripted in any way, so I've seen people get interrupted, go to fast, or not explain something enough. "Just do this it works" is good for some people.. But not all of us. Figuring out a basic lesson plan, and creating a system where you can start at lesson one, and then grasp all the basics for lesson two would be very important.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:54:53
content:
  It's because creating tutorial is UX on its own😊. You have to really drill to the key points of what is it that the user might want to do, what is their level of understaning, potential questions that you think they will ask or issues they will have...it's a balance of information. Too much or too little and people will get frustrated and leave


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:55:59
content:
  it wouldn't apply too well with Neos, given the locomotion shifting and all that (granted, I haven't delved that deep into them), but an example tutorial beginning I had partially set up was teaching the user how to move. To do this, I had visuals showing an archeway going to pillars going over small drop, with a glowing spot in the center of it. Depending on the controller detected, a model showing it and demonstrating it from afar on how to teleport was demoed. If too much time passed, a 'ghost' of sorts would appear and demo how to do it. Once the user teleported at least 3 times ( 2 pillars and an end point), it was safe to say the user knew how to do it.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 09:57:23
content:
  The problem is... Neos already has that... but I find slideshows just info dumps, resulting in 'informational overload'. I've seen this countless times happen where if you overwhelm a user with too much at once, they'll be discouraged very easily. You pretty much have to trickle information slowly, but also ensure you aren't doing too much.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:00:12
content:
  Agreed. It's even harder for VR users, since wearing a face toaster is sometimes deemed 'uncomfortable' for some people, meaning that if you are to show them something, it has to be a 'works as quickly as possible' approach.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:01:28
edit_date: 2022-09-21 03:34:25
content:
  That is all true. I guess I was thinking more about conceptual side of these. Where for instance you have someone completely knew, who wants to use Neos for making, say a sea world with dolphins and music. You first need to understand how Neos works - what is the inventory, how sessions work, then all the different tools - you need to understand the logic and roughly how Neos operates, and then you can enquire about specific tools. Because otherwise you "don't know what you don't know" . You have not even idea for which tutorial to look for if you don't understand how Neos is designed


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:01:54
content:
  That is where a structured pathway might help because it ensures that you get your foundation before you move on


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:03:34
content:
  I always view it as a 'skill' approach to things. A great demo of that is the great 'make a peanut butter sandwich' exercise.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:04:45
content:
  the idea is basically you write down how to make a sandwich, then follow those instructions exactly. It sounds simple, until you realize that it's meant to demonstrate programming, and that computers will do things literally. In a sense, you can replace computers with users, and the process is more or less the same.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:10:29
content:
  soft of, but not quite. In the sandwich situation, you make the instructions, but then follow them exactly. EXACTLY.
  When demoed with my professor, one set of instructions said to open the bag of bread. They tore the entire thing apart. Technically speaking, the bag was open.
  Next, open the peanut butter. A chainsawed up bottle later...
  Take knife and scoop out peanut butter. The table looks like a Reese's crime scene.
  I think you can see how the rest goes with that mindset.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:13:55
content:
  not just in the sense of the instructions being followed in a literal sense and outside of general assumption, it's also that many things such as 'does the person know how to open a bag in general' and 'does the user know how to open a jar' come into question. Relaying instructions to 'firmly grasp it and do exactly as I do' (you're welcome to the 5 people who get that reference) may sound annoying to people who know the info already, but annoyance is the price you pay for people who don't. It's a major balancing act to gauge on how much information do you really supply in an instruction set to a new user.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:14:30
content:
  Yes when people are able to do it wrong then it will go wrong so then you make it that it can only be done in one way


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:16:39
content:
  Maybe like a tutorial that is kind of like a ghost so you see the thing semi transparent happening and you follow it like that


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:17:59
content:
  yup. You just have to think on 'what does a user need to know to get around' and think on 'how can you demonstrate it so the user can find out how to do it via discovery'


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:18:15
content:
  Like for example the thing guille made where you can record your movement and such ingame and play it back later


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:20:16
content:
  I know it's possible because when a network lag happens it cues all the packages and then plays it fast forward when catching back up


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:22:15
content:
  I always like the idea of this since then it's even cooler than a 360 video because with this you could then fully experience the thing you recorded


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 10:23:49
content:
  honestly, I've viewed it as a 'just make it a community project' to work on some parts,, with a focus on 'match this theme' and 'here are some raw resources as a baseline'


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 17:22:17
content:
  Fascinating discussion, everyone! I'm in the process of organizing a DJ workshop in Neos for DJs who are on other VR platforms. 

  One thing that I've noticed is that a live demo is nice to have, but that doesn't scale well. 

  I'll test out to see what a 3D walk-through could look like, since I think such a learning path would be really fun to make and be a part of!


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 17:25:31
content:
  And I wear glasses myself, so I know what you mean about taking the headset on and off. 

  Neos is the first platform that I've really wanted to stay in VR for an extended time period to build. 🥰🥰🥰  It's been amazing in that way, and I'll see what I can make for it!


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 18:37:48
content:
  The thing is... that once you use the desktop viewer, you don't really have to take the headset off.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 19:28:26
content:
  Even back when I was partying with 400 people in a world, the framerate wasn't exactly great, but was passable. The servers could house thousands, but the systems of most people could only just manage 300 to 400, depending on the avatars involved


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 19:30:11
content:
  Ah, I understand. Thank you for letting me know.  I was aiming for a workshop event of maybe 7-10 people.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 19:56:32
edit_date: 2022-09-20 19:56:48
content:
  only picture I have with a number on it is the twitter link I gave of 419 users; mind you, this was also back in 2018.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 19:57:20
content:
  oh, and the avatar's weren't single materials, either. So you can bet optimization was... not good? Yet things ran fine


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 20:09:21
content:
  uh.... there are no secrets. Heck, the project was open source, but you can't get the original code unless you know someoen who has it, because they took down their Github on shutdown in 2020


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 20:10:12
edit_date: 2022-09-20 22:18:56
content:
  but in a nutshell, part of the answer is multiple components of a world's hosting requirements being modular and thus able to run in a cluster setup.


type: message
date: 2022-09-20 20:14:34
content:
  Indeed. And the accessibility in both VR and desktop is what I think makes this such a strong platform. Most of the prepared tutorials can be prepared similarly and recording for each type mode of access.


type: message
date: 2022-09-21 07:59:13
edit_date: 2022-09-21 23:15:44
content:
  I was able to run 20+ people sessions with an old 4 core haswell and 50 mbit upload just fine. As long as people dont spawn a lot of stuff.

  Thats how we usually hosted our DJ sessions (Had neos be streamed behind the dj on a greenscreen.)

  And that was still without any User culling back then. 
  With it it will probably be easier for peoples client performance.
  But usermade avatarculling is just a bandaid.


type: message
date: 2022-09-21 08:00:57
content:
  it was usually above 20 people when I ran into bandwith issues with my 50 mbit upload.

  Sadly I cant really host anymore as my isp went completly shit since a year now. My net dies daily >_>


type: message
date: 2022-09-21 23:18:46
content:
  But if you plan to buy it someone needs to make a mod first to add support and then you got to install that mod to Neos


type: message
date: 2022-09-24 23:34:07
content:
  And how would you all describe Neos? Game, platform, product, engine, tool, or some other description?


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 07:47:11
content:
  What do you mean stopped.
  Can the development of NEOS no longer be continued? Can only work with what is there before the development stop?


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:18:26
edit_date: 2022-09-25 08:22:44
content:
  To make it short:
  Onces there where two friends. One good with finances, one good with making the best f*cking virtual realities there is.

  Then suddenly lots of people got interested in the currency that was meant as a "thank you" for everyone sponsoring the project, to not forget the ones that helped out with time and resources and the end. Suddenly that currency was worth more then the project and the two friends got into an argument how to use this the best way.

  Money broke the friendship, as it broke the ongoing project. Now the two friends are enemies, trying to figure out who is now in control of neos. One not wanting to give it up for money, the other because its his dream.

  Until one of them takes 100% control, any development will be in secret by the one that is the developer, because it would be a bad idea to give this tool to his enemy (and his time and resources), weakening his position as the possible owner of neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:22:11
edit_date: 2022-09-25 08:31:19
content:
  I’m the one trying to make Neos open source as we agreed we’ll do. Not in for the money, that is propaganda by the volunteers trying to take over.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:24:07
content:
  I see, i might be wrong. In any case, this is an ongoing fight between two groups that try to take control. Before not one of the two takes control, this is kind of a standstill situation in any case.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:26:52
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:11:36
content:
  Both development and financials are very important parts of a company. There are many talented devs without means to make things happen and companies with financing without talented devs. Both can be solved by working hard at it, both are very important.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:28:21
content:
  Yes, both is very important obviously and while i don't have total insight into it, obviously both has to be done right. But it seams like the only solution forward (in any case) is to have one of the two groups take control. It really doesn't mather what of the two do, because the other will most likely create their own project.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:31:16
content:
  but what keeps the project alive now is the community that continues without money 

  But for the future both are important


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 08:35:46
content:
  I am pretty sure as soon as it is solved, neos or any project that grows out of neos will be both very interesting. It might be even the most interesting solution. To have one branch going open source and another one staying with the creator but closed source.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 13:35:44
edit_date: 2022-09-25 13:39:31
content:
  It can't be open sources at current state because it got licensed unity pieces in it like the modified finalik is one of the things that needs to be changed before it can be open source


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 13:36:42
edit_date: 2022-09-25 14:51:01
content:
  Like i see many people of the community making awesome additions via Neos+ plugin which if Neos was open sourced can be added to the main game


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 14:17:12
edit_date: 2022-09-25 14:51:05
content:
  To be honest i would love to see Neos being forked.

  Your views and the dev teams views just... don't line up and honestly you are both trying to make different metaverses already. Nothing is being done on neos right now due to this.

  I hope you guys figure it out soon, because it's been almost a year.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 18:02:14
edit_date: 2022-09-25 18:03:03
content:
  Honestly Karel, at this point it should be only a question of who keeps the name and brand design. There is no way you two will just make up and there is nothing else really. You two should really find a solution who keeps the name and split the team so the development of both projects can finally continue. It would be awesome to see both projects having a future and considering that many of the programers want to keep close to Frooxius, it might be the best decission from you to go the open source with your copy of the project. It would surly find a lot of interested parties and many new programmers that would help develop this side of the future project.


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 21:12:14
content:
  There would be a lot of interested VCs given the traction, community and development to date but it would require a roadmap which is clearly absent and to ditch the token because that strategy didn't work.
  The P2P client architecture is something that would definitely get attention across web3 circles as would this being open sourced.

  But forking this without any real strategy or legal framework that separates all party interest is only going to continue to damage the future of Neos


type: message
date: 2022-09-25 23:01:58
content:
  We would like to list this coin on our mobile app and website, if you are interested, message @tokenmarketcap_verified


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 02:36:31
edit_date: 2022-09-26 07:58:30
content:
  I believe you bro, Web 3 has always been about Open Source Protocols, Transparency and Permission-less distribution!


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 09:14:00
edit_date: 2022-09-26 09:22:10
content:
  I am not a developer. But in my opinion, the Metavers should be a decentralized place, and as far as I know, that can only be done via open source. Otherwise, we will eventually be controlled by Mark and the others. NEO has what it takes to grow disruptively. What the two founders have created is really special and too bad to discard it. It's hard to believe that such smart and productive people can't come to an agreement.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 09:36:07
content:
  Thank you for your advice. But in the conversation history, one of the founders of Neos seeks to work in open source, the other right?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 10:21:42
edit_date: 2022-09-26 10:33:49
content:
  Finding a way for Neos to go forward is exactly the problem here. My preffered vision is for it to go fully open-source with anyone being able to contribute to its development, vet its code for privacy issues, fork it as willing individuals and groups form, leading to both Neos flavours that have very little rules that are very decentralized and then also flavours that have minimum viable rules, capable of operating on mainstream platforms like Steam, Meta and whoever will roll out thieir own down the line 🍎, having centalized cloud services (like Ubuntu Cloud), card payments the whole shebang. This would ensure there will be a high-end competitive open-source free metaverse platform available, that there will be always choice and a near certainty that multiple partys will always carry the banner of an open metaverse and it will be available to everyone.
  This vision of mine is in hard contrast with the volunteers who joined Neos because they love it as it is. They joined something they love and don’t want it to change. Very understandable. However there are huge outside pressures that will make Neos change one way or another. As Neos grows and VR industry in general matures rapidly with some high profile entrants, those pressures intensify. Operating metaverse with user generated content and social network features is a complex issue. Complying with government rules is only a tiny beginning of the regulation hierarchy. The much harder part are credit card companies like Visa and MC whose rules have about 700 pages. A lot of it is clear and lot of it is very open to interpretation and totally reliant on relationships down the hierarchy. Those are then payment processors and banks who add yet more rules to protect those relationships and their reputation, shareholder relations etc. Further down the chain are the platforms like Steam, Meta, Patreon who have to comply to all of that plus add yet more to protect their own interests. In realation to that we have about 400 ticking bombs that will go off sooner or later. Sooner seeming like the case at the moment. 
  A lot of the things you see metaverses and other companies do, the unpopular rules they set, the huge investments they need and legal, management teams they build is not done becouse they are stupid or that its their “vision”. It’s because their customers want to use credit and debit cards directly or indirectly and they are part of a system. They don’t exist in a vacuum and have to comply with unimaginable amount of regulation and maintain complex relationships with institutions in the regulation chain.
  We are unfortunately at this moment very much part of this hierarchy at its very bottom both in terms of income and our cloud infrastructure.
  The only alternative I see to my preffered open-source, decentralized vision is to do what everyone else does by default, meaning to comply with everything we need to, build proper legal and management teams and becoming a serious company (or part of one) capable of navigating these regulations and relationships.
  Very understandably the volunteers like Geenz and Probable who work st such compliant companies hate the idea of Neos turning into that. That they go ballistic and try to create opposition at any cost to save Neos as they love and know it. The awesome project they joined. I get that very much and part of me would love that as well.
  However we are at a crossroads. We have to choose to go fully open-source or fully corpo. My preference and vision is to go fully open. If most of our volunteers and community will want to go corpo instead I will help make it happen and help Neos to be succsesful in this way. However I will also use all of the funds that this would bring me personally and all the experience I gained throughout the 9 years at Neos to fund an open and free metaverse alternative as I strongly believe that it needs to exist. That it will play an important role in the future of our society.
  Saying unclear stuff like “our visions differ” is not helpful.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 10:21:42
edit_date: 2022-09-26 10:31:55
content:
  On this crossroads the opposition needs to decide if they want Neos to go open or corpo. Or formulate another option I don’t see at this time. They need to state their vision clearly. If the vision is to conserve Neos as it is, that is a beautiful one but not realistic at all for the reasons above. We need a realistic one.
  The juxtaposition of not wanting to go open and embrace decentralized technology that was created by people frustrated by the rules of the financial system that are to a large degree controlling what we can and cannot do online but also not wanting to comply with these rules and relationships is not sustainable. No amount of striking and channeling the hate towards the situation into hate towars me will help here.
  Please make your choice. Even if things were said that shouldn’t have and dirty laundry was washed publicly that didn’t have to I still love you all and appeciate what you have done and are doing for Neos. Your contribution towards creating something this amazing and important will be never forgotten. Especially if we can chart a viable way forward. 🙏


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 10:55:18
edit_date: 2022-09-26 10:57:31
content:
  I also think that the "we have to choose either fully open source or fully corpo" ultimatum you suggest is a pretty poor declaration. As there are other options to go down. Froox states here that a gradual open sourcing of Neos was going to be the plan, and that parts of Neos are already open source: https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/850128578271641610/905237126986215444


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 10:56:40
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:00:54
content:
  Is it really true that the root of the conflict is "small corpo community" vs "open source metaverse" visions? I thought the rest of the team just do not want to work with you and thats it.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 10:57:09
edit_date: 2022-09-26 10:58:15
content:
  So well said Karel.  When I first got my VR headset this last Christmas and learned to use it, the first thing I did was go on a hunt for the closest thing to the metaverse of Ready Player One.  When I found Neos, I thought wow this is the closest this Neos could do it.  I was surprised to find it wasn't open source.  I read some of the doc and understood why it wasn't open source at the time.  I had hoped that it would become open source.

  I think if you go corporate companies might try to squash their competitors.  If you go GNU it would open you up to other sister projects that would also need to open source, but might be more community driven, or go a route similar to Ubuntu or WordPress.  If you go MIT you might get something like Apple OSX that might fork and then enhance privately.  

  I just want Neos to survive, one way or another.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:01:46
content:
  Meta might fork one way or another.  At least if they fork it as GNU then others might still be able to benefit and compete.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:02:46
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:09:05
content:
  Unfortunately yes, either there has to be rules if management is expected to comply to all it needs to or there can be no management and things can be decentralized. We can’t do both. That would only lead to Neos loosing funding mechanisms and capability to provide services like cloud sooner or later which would of course be attributed to poor management.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:05:28
content:
  Until recently you worked for one and complained all the time how its terrible there. I don’t want for Neos to become Microsoft as well. We have to come up with something though.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:09:28
content:
  The lack of virtue signaling is not the problem here. Either isn’t what we don’t want. The problem is figuring out what we do want for Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:14:48
content:
  I mean, i am thankful that it at least "put out there". I think you do mean well Karel, but there has be the option to actually fail, to go with the project to what you consider not sustainable. You are probably right that they have to adapt in the end, but you do understand that this will never happen with you two in the mix. You slow each other down because of your personal troubles, if you want that or not. It is reality


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:15:07
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:33:13
content:
  Maybe what Froox had in mind:
  " open sourcing device drivers first (and making it easier to write custom ones), then maybe importers, then components/tools and then the core."
  (From https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/850128578271641610/905237126986215444)

  "We'd definitely like to open source it as soon as we can, but that might still take a while"
  (From https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/2584#issuecomment-873821214)

  "Overall we believe that having solid foundations is one of the most important things for the metaverse and taking certain shortcuts can compromise those, causing major issues in the long term. It's how we have built the engine so far and it's one of the major reasons why it has so much more flexibility, even compared to platforms that have much larger development teams - without proper architecture and foundations certain things become too hard to maintain or implement, even if you throw lots of people at it and that's something we'd like to avoid.

  Personally I see us doing this gradually. Expanding the plugin architecture first, opening up things like hardware drivers/integrations. Later on more core components and tools. It'll require some reorganization and will take some time, but it should make things more manageable."
  (Also from https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/2584#issuecomment-873821214)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:18:30
content:
  We would all love to see your two visions come to life, even if one of them ultimatly fails. And you can say "i told you so" and whatever was made in between will merge again most likely. But to pull from both end just prevents both sides to get anywhere


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:20:00
content:
  I think Neos could go corporate with the right leadership team, sponsors, and mentors. This would be a huge undertaking.  It sounds like VR Chat has been going through those growing pains.

  The Crypto world has been undergoing huge scrutiny by the SEC it will require a large corporate team to navigate both the Crypto regulations as well as the complex free speech, online universe that it is creating.  

  Even as a fully open source project and foundation, it will be a struggle and probably require a legal team to stay afloat under today's complex global legal systems.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:22:03
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:22:27
content:
  There is no real reason why Neos could’t be open sourced right now without the parts like FinalIK that we don’t have the rights to and that people would probably substitute with open ones quite soon. Maybe not feature parity from the get go but open and free for anyone to improve.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:23:02
content:
  But its true that open source has advantages in this. But i dont know neos code or structure. I guess that some parts are prioritary or even stolen (everyone does it)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:25:10
content:
  I remember 3 years ago Frooxius pressuring me to go open-source already and me explaining that I was not sure that we would have money for rent after and now it’s a  technical problem to open source. Not likely.
  Now I see a clear path, Frooxius has his own Patreon, doesn’t have to comply to all the rules a company has to when only contributing to open software. Other developers and whole geoups working on Neos flavours can do the same.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:25:48
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:26:03
content:
  You could go social purpose corporate like Purism:

  Purism is a Social Purpose Corporation founded by Todd Weaver in 2014. Purism is a company dedicated to freedom, privacy, and security.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:27:55
content:
  I dont have the insights you do, I don't know, but it still feels like the only way forward is a clear break. A fork


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:28:22
content:
  IMO forking would be interesting because like, well. Dev team can continue with their neos, you can continue with your neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:29:52
content:
  The ability to fork is in general very good and solves a lot of issues that emerge when things are not open.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:30:42
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:31:12
content:
  It would also be awesome to partner with OpenBCI and/or work to harness the powers of some of the headsets they are partnering on:

  OpenBCI/Varjo for Galea BCI system


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:31:11
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:31:26
content:
  I am just a small fish in patreon, but i will (for my part) patreon both groups with my meger 80€ a month if you both finally find a way forward


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:34:36
content:
  Very hard to figure out what they want. They don’t want to be managed but they don’t want for Neos to be decentralized either.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:35:07
content:
  That's strange seeing as I spoke to Froox about it very early and they said they've always been cautious about it. There's even comments on some of the issues here: https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/2584#issuecomment-873821214 A lot can change in 3 years, perhaps you should think back to more recent conversations as opinions change.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:35:59
content:
  Yeah that's why i use Neos+ it's the mid way between open source and still making use of existing infrastructure


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:36:32
content:
  Infact here's a 2019 conversation about open sourcing, 2019 was 3 years ago. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917460205535637505/1023920791382921287/unknown.png


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:37:10
content:
  Thats great to hear. Do you want for Neos to be open-source and decentralized or to be a corporation with professional management?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:38:58
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:39:08
content:
  When you search for xlinka Neosplus GitHub you find a tweet from him with the link to the Neos+ open source plugin which adds tons of new features and many to come


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:39:32
content:
  The is right with that Probable Prime, and i am not usually on Karels side (sorry). Perhaps a clear cut to both, one path each?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:40:12
content:
  I’ve seen that and applaud to it very much. Doesn’t solve the centralization issues we have but a great step towards something better.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:41:23
content:
  why not? It is already the case, and the path of slowly open sourcing the platform seems like the best way to go, as Neos's technologies get open sourced, the platform will, in nature, become more open and decentralised.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:42:25
content:
  Multiple companies operate as open source and corporations, its really cool. Blender is my favorite example.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:43:47
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:46:44
content:
  Oh yeah Neos+ gets updated weekly the cloth physics was from a few weeks ago this is the main Neos+ page https://github.com/Xlinka/NeosPlus


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:44:10
content:
  Because employees have to comply internally in order for management to be able to comply with external entities.
  So either you have working management or it is not needed.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:44:20
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:44:39
content:
  So, whats the trouble? You know, you two will probably never have the same vision, eye to eye. The trust was broken long time ago. Cant you both not finally rip that band-aid off? It would be a great day for neos, neos+ and new neos alike


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:45:57
content:
  If there is a transition period needed for reasons that have not been clearly stated or I don’t understood I would like to know how much longer our legal entities have to last. How long it will take approximately.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:48:00
content:
  How about... it would be really, really nice? I mean, it would give a real direction and you all do want to go forward, right?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:48:28
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:48:38
content:
  Not a threat I’m working to keep them going quite hard actually, I’m not on strike, our cloud is being paid, things are working.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:48:44
edit_date: 2022-09-26 16:46:10
content:
  My friends called it abandonware and I stayed still in Neos since I just like the things you can do in it so much it really was my start of vr and building in VR is what i do


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:50:16
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:50:34
content:
  It just isn't easy for regular users to update and place Neos+ in the right folder yet but it's a good start to community updates


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:51:44
edit_date: 2022-09-26 11:53:25
content:
  I'll be working with Xlinka when I can to move suitable features back over to actual Neos when we can :)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:52:28
content:
  It only boils down to you two find a solution. No he didnt obviously. You just need to see how 9ften he tests new versions in neos and you realize that


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:52:53
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:20:47
content:
  Hard to say it's alive when anytime I jump in it's the same 5 people playing and the newcomers rarely stay. Especially with all this drama it makes it even harder to call Neos a home.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:55:46
content:
  Pushing new features directly into Noes Steam wouldn’t change anything legally. I see no reason why not to do that. Especially if everything will be open-sourced sooner or later, right?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:56:03
content:
  But i mean thats not really a secret. Why would froox release any more than security patches while they fight over the future of neos and neos code


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 11:59:15
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:12:26
content:
  It is a form of protest I get that. However the protest is not achieving anything other than hurting users. Would be better to think about the situation constructively work towards a solution. Like open-sourcing or getting professional management on board.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:00:37
content:
  Or... maybe you have to change. There's a reason why the protest is happening. They aren't just doing it for fun, there's serious reasons why.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:00:38
content:
  Basically pulled the whole community with it instead of keeping working on Neos which he loved doing and then lot of people left


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:02:02
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:02:31
content:
  The game has a small core group of players, when newcomers jump in it's rare they stay any longer than a few days. The game has bursts where we'll get a few more people online from time to time, but really it's a small core that keeps it alive. From my perspective I play for the potential of the game, drama like this where I cant even see where the game is going almost kills my faith in it. Woulda been a great time with the influx of VRC people to release some kinda roadmap but instead yall wasting a great opportunity.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:02:51
content:
  Trust is gone. Some people are better then others to keep thing in a professional level. If its not possible, a split of the company has to happen


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:02:57
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:12:40
content:
  Not at all open-sourcing is very positive for crypto. All major crypto projects are actually open. We’d use resources to reward developers, would work great.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:04:14
content:
  Like you got to think about the future eu is working on a digital euro so having support for these new technologies is good


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:05:00
content:
  But i dont see a future with them working together. And because of this, this limbo will continue forever or until the split


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:08:15
content:
  I cant stress enough that people are not perfect and professional life is sometimes not be easy to devide from private. sometimes thats how it just is if one of the people involved is hurt too much


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:08:29
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:12:49
content:
  Split is very easy after things are open-source. Literally anyone can found a new company and develop their own thing.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:10:31
content:
  My private opinion is that some stuff is not perfectly legal (codecs, plugins) and they dont want to give all that knowledge to big companies like Facebook


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:12:39
content:
  Maybe losing some functionality for the open build temporarily. No reason most users can’t continue to use the closed source version until feature parity.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:13:07
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:13:33
content:
  There are often many things insight a program that should not be there. Its the sad truth of development


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:13:50
content:
  Open sourcing seems to be A SOLUTION worth being explored but yet I don't see it gets fully considered


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:16:15
content:
  So there has been zero progress towards a solution? That is all that I am getting from this. Zero progress. I expect another year to pass with zero progress too.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:17:11
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:21:45
content:
  That would be welcome. Having a time estimate would help a lot. We need to keep things going until then.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:19:23
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:20:37
content:
  What the heck do you even do nowadays Karel? If development has stalled for Neos then what do you spend your time on?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:23:38
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:27:50
content:
  Mostly on keeping thing working until we are open. Also small things like website update based on feedback we got. We’ll be releasing that hopefully this week.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:23:59
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:24:06
content:
  A business is not magically runned, someone needs To take care of all that. Yet Karel seems to be the one doing it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:24:54
content:
  Perhaps just open source GNU, then fork.  One side could go Social Purpose corporation and tried to get big sponsors to try and compete long term against other big metaverse players.  Then the other open source project could benefit from the codebase enhancements and not have to deal with the corporate atmosphere.  Would that be a win-win?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:27:42
content:
  Do you see it ever getting to a point where you just say "screw it" and just hire devs and start from scratch? It does not seem like the volunteer team plan to budge any time soon.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:28:05
content:
  How about a middle way? Froox makes a bare bone version of everything that is not prioritary and excludes all functions that might be questionable to release open source? And make it open source as explicit non commercial


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:28:18
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:35:25
content:
  Neos+ is obviously a problematic name if things don’t go open but corpo but yes I meant that one. 😄
  Thank you so much for choosing such a great license and for your awesome work to everyone who paricipates. Hope to see Neos go all in GNU sooner or later 👍


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:31:38
content:
  Well then open sourcing under GNU is a great move that makes sure Facebook wont own it ever. Keeping it in a company that might go bankrupt and someone might buy it to sue him to get the code is a less viable strategy.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:33:23
content:
  True. Well i just really hope that will happen. Or optional you two starting with the copy of the current prioritary and you going open source from it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:35:40
content:
  It would not require froox to go open source with something he feels is not ready for it. If true or not, you do pressure a timeline


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:36:10
content:
  Would you be able to enforce any kind of symbiosis between multiple variations of Neos in open source? Doesn't Neos+ sessions not allow regular Neos players not to join? It seems like it would create issues if people had to keep adding plugins or switch versions to play with one group of friends or another


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:36:59
content:
  well this is for security and the fact that if someone with a plugin joined people without it and spawned a component the field type wont exist in their client leading to a crash from world


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:37:45
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:38:45
content:
  GNU license doesnt say anything about Facebook specifically. Anyone would be free to use it and as the move would have both directors signed would not be able to be questioned.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:38:12
content:
  Yea true, but i mean, both versions of the main neos version would work fine for a long time with neos+


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:38:28
edit_date: 2022-09-26 17:50:50
content:
  At some point, can we expect Froox To speak for himself and be a part of this constructive conversation ? I Would love To hear from him


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:39:23
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:43:05
content:
  We're under instructions to not really say much. I shouldn't really be even saying as much as I do. I'm in contact with Froox though and reminding him to get rest and hydrate


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:42:23
content:
  Man my biggest thing with all this is massive divides being created within Neos. Like how Neos users cant play with Neos+ users. It creates more barriers of entry. Suddenly you have non cross compatible sub groups within Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:43:56
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:45:08
content:
  But you do need to talk with each other, please. I love and understand Froox and also all the losses of confidence in each other ( and trust). But we all wait for the day this gets finally solved.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:45:18
content:
  Its in the announcements channel and on his twitter. I also stand by Froox so you hear it through me too.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:47:44
content:
  I dont think people who were part of the admin team on discord can hijack something they already had control of.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:47:47
content:
  And under Froox we have Veer who was put in that position by Froox, Veer with his team means the volunteers follow rules we have in place. So its not been hijacked at all.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:48:23
content:
  This is mostly Neos Credits and occasionally, Karel decided to post stuff, let's chat about it or some cool Neos content.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:48:28
content:
  Yes, well,... i mean you are not wrong, but you know what i mean. You are Solirax LTD mostly at the moment in terms of frontend content delivery


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:49:31
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:50:23
content:
  I was treated badly at my last job and I quit so why isn't it being moved  on and continue development?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:51:39
content:
  Neos is such a thoroughly sunk ship. Karel do you even have an endgame in mind? Or are you just blindly holding onto a sunk cost fallacy? I would have abandoned ship long ago and worked on something else.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:52:35
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:52:53
content:
  Thank you Probable for being here so we have at least some mens of constructive communication. Looking forward to at least some reaction on how things could go forward, a approximate timeline in an optimal case.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:54:00
content:
  ProbablePrime is one of the best things that happened to neos. Seriously. His tutorials are the lifeblood of neos


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:55:05
edit_date: 2022-09-26 12:56:30
content:
  There needs to be clarity in if people can still expect to work in Neos and use it in the future too


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 12:59:40
content:
  Worst case scenario tbh is people relying on a plugin for feature updates like Neos+ so atleast that gives some clarity to a potential outcome


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:00:56
content:
  I have heard nothing constructive from the other party lawyer. Anything that can be achieved there is an expensive stalemate. It would be better to focus on actual solutions.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:01:35
content:
  Hopefully it is not an outcome but a temporary for people to have something new until this is figured out.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:02:27
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:02:44
content:
  I dont have the right to ask, but since you CAN technically tell us. What was talked about? The wish of the other party lawyer?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:03:31
content:
  Like we download Neos from the website and then the website already comes with a custom Neos launcher then we simply get a Neos+ launcher like that and use that and the launcher would automatically install the latest open source Neos+ update


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:10:18
content:
  Yes there were serious problems with Nex management of any company could not ignore. Thats how it started.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:10:45
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:11:11
content:
  I treat allegations of this nature with intense seriousness and call upon our moderator @NonnyFreedom to do something about this message. How dare you accuse me of that, with 0 evidence or meaning.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:13:26
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:13:39
content:
  I havent heard Probable or Geenz directly speak on behalf of Nex but they have joined the opposition against me and any effort of management.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:14:38
content:
  It is not professional to comment on matters that I have no knowledge of.  I'm not opposed to management either. I'm opposed to behaviour.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:15:28
content:
  What just happened here? Can we go back reducing out this alligation against people that are not here or relevant for the legal position of neos?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:17:10
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:17:27
content:
  It's nice to note that in response to fairly pleasant discourse the "baseless accusation" card needed to be played... Yay. https://www.logicalfallacies.org/ad-hominem.html


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:18:17
content:
  We know, but please probable you too. Giving air to people trying to break constructive discussions just makes it worse.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:19:16
content:
  You’re not the only one here Probable, people can actually discuss here things freely. I appreciate you being here but you don’t own this chat as you do Discord.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:20:39
content:
  I don't claim to own it, I do however claim that it needs policing when messages break the rules your staff member outlined and hired a moderator for. This was my only problem here Karel. And i dont' own the discord, 5 minutes ago you said Nex did? That's still wrong, its Froox. They own it.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:20:49
content:
  Still Karel, such attacks are obviously not fruitful. Even if they would be 100% true, that just means the police can solve that.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:21:50
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:22:01
content:
  I was speaking in generic terms Alex, you're good. Although maybe mention Neos+ a little less. Its really cool but we don't need to go in circles talking about it sometimes.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:22:53
content:
  You said I shouldn’t comment on things you dont have any knowledge of. I can comment on anything I like. Your allowance is really not necessary.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:23:06
content:
  I can't even understand this, so I'll just ignore it. While I'm friends with Erin, I had nothing to do with that situation. Please move on. (https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Telegram#1._General_chat_rules)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:25:36
content:
  So lets say froox owns all the code. Then it would only be a legal question of shutting down the servers you control Karel. Brand is 50/50


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:26:29
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:26:40
content:
  The person with a pacifier sucking profile picture is really quick to try to shut THAT conversation down.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:29:47
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:29:55
content:
  For the benefit of everyone, here's Andrea introducing the rules here: https://t.me/c/1314262393/33130


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:32:07
content:
  Ask around with some of the older members. Maybe some of the ones that left the platform before the NCR boom due to multiple issues, including this one.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:43:24
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:44:11
content:
  Just to add my own opinion, I don't like Neos+ not because I don't like the features or such, but just because I hate the concept of plugins in general. 

  The problem is that unlike mods, plugins fracture the userbase, and to split up the neos community for some small feature additions means any new players Arnt gonna know to download it, and I have to convince friends to use it to hang out with me. 

  Because of that, I won't use any plugin that isn't client side (IE: a NML Mod) because I don't want to break compatibly with existing neos players. People shouldn't have to download a plugin just to join my session because I wanted a random feature none of them care about


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:43:55
content:
  With the whole open source thing I feel similarly that I don't want the entire player base to be fractured over multiple forks.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:44:38
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:45:44
content:
  The game already has a small playerbase, and breaking it up like that makes it even smaller.

  I love the idea of open source but I hate the idea of two competing major forks


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:45:07
content:
  I am not talking about good or bad ppl but just until recently when karel spoke a word he was met with hostility. That wasn't the best thing to carry on a conversation. Things are moving. I hope the community will get the clarifications it deserves


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:47:19
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:47:35
content:
  There are ways to mitigate some security thingies, but if we were to do it that way it would be opt-in and at the user's risk. Which of course would turn most people away, but its the only real way to doit.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:48:03
content:
  Many games ask if they should download mods if you connect to a server. Including dll's. Its not new


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:48:38
content:
  Yeah but neos is in a large part  techy users. We are the kind of dickheads who love to abuse stuff like that for fun. Like Cmon, every time some security issue is found in neos people make meme items with it, there will 100% be people who's games make you download a plugin that changes all the text on your UI to UwU speak or some crap disguising it as neos+ or so


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:49:48
content:
  Yes but can be mittigated by building on workshop side and only activates in worlds that require this plugin


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:50:16
content:
  how? Literally nobody checks those, and having the game do it means we have to maintain a list of trusted plugins, and how does a mod get on that list in the first place? What if the user accepts the malicious one as trusted first?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:51:02
content:
  Agreed, I'm just concerned at how much plugins can change for one to just download as soon as I'm in a world and press OK on joining


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:52:10
content:
  Hell, I don't update my NML mods unless it's for major security fixes because I barely even trust those to not get updated to be unsafe briefly. It's happened before with other games I've played where a mod creator gets pissed and updates their mod to be malicious when it wasn't before


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:52:18
content:
  Yes, and i know its not risk free, but it is so incredible powerful. I mean people download plugins every day, even for vrchat that bans you for it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:52:48
content:
  People download mods because they don't break compatibility. Very rarely did I ever see anyone using a full plugin


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:54:08
content:
  I disagree, refer to my original point about plugins shattering the community by not showing in the session listings for people with different version strings. 

  The problem is either everyone uses neos+ and now every new user doesn't know about it and thinks the game is dead or we get some partial adoption and now half of neos doesn't care about it and we essentially have two smaller neos communities who never see eachother


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:54:16
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:54:42
content:
  RimWorld goes the middle road. Checked by workshop, gives you a list of required mods that you dont have on join and you can click on every single one and download


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:55:07
edit_date: 2022-09-26 13:55:27
content:
  This is probably where I would like to see it, a list of plugins the session is running and GitHub links to go download them myself


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:56:46
content:
  Right but a lot of people don't give any care about the features of neos plus and don't want to use it, so it leads to point #2 where it breaks up the playerbase


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 13:58:18
content:
  A fix to this, even without automatic plugin downloading is to just, give me a tab on the session list that says "incompatible version strings"


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:00:10
content:
  Sorry, I've been really busy with life and havnt been able to play neos much. And obviously this is the first time a plugin has gotten large adoption lol


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:00:39
content:
  I still don't like it breaking up players with something they need to download from a third party but that's better than full separation


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:02:32
content:
  My side is that I'd like to use a version of the game that someone who just downloaded the game can join me with.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:03:39
content:
  ....couldn't Neos+ just add an option to disable its additional features if the session type is NOT neos+?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:04:44
content:
  To do this the plugin system of neos would need to change i guess. Like loading mods by world requirements


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:04:52
content:
  NorthStar for titanfall only gets away with it because regular titanfall's multiplayer is unplayable with hacking and DDOS


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:05:47
content:
  Neos+ breaks me away from all of the new players and old players who just don't care about it, and for that reason I cannot use it because it brings me further away from the parts of neos I care about, in exchange for minor features I don't want or need, and with no guarantee those features won't break in the future.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:06:45
content:
  It's the same reason I don't use DMX's All Shaders Valid mod for custom shaders. Nobody else without the mod can see it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:07:34
content:
  Ah yes funny thing about shaders the code to display those got removed from the asset variant system so custom shaders can't be loaded anymore even with the mod


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:08:43
content:
  It breaks the community up by making you need it to use or see something, and then potentially stops working down the line leading to many broken creations


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:11:23
content:
  I agree, but I don't think a plugin is the way I personally want to go, as it means I have to convince everyone to download it to play with me, which I already have a hard enough tune getting people into neos in general, and then concerns about breaking with future updates as well as meaning people who don't know me won't know to use it and I'll miss out on all the new users


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:12:03
content:
  oh thats allready being planned to replace with another more universal system without using connector jank


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:12:33
edit_date: 2022-09-26 14:12:46
content:
  I am a big fan of my favourite social platform coming back from the hell that is this gridlock one day...

  :(


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:14:52
content:
  It is not a solution to the game not getting updates recently. It is a third party content addition that requires breaking compatibility with existing players. If you like what it offers it's cool and by all means use it but for many of us all it does is make it harder to hang out with people because we don't want to download a plugin we don't need or want the features from


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:16:23
content:
  I agree with that. Neos+ would need a better plugin integration by neos to be less intrusive. Its not Neos+ fault. Also doesnt replace development on neos side


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:17:49
content:
  What neos+ can do is adding ideas from player side that might be taken in the main code of neos one day


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:17:58
content:
  This doesn't change that in my opinion it splits up the playerbase. If people who are going to quit start using it, people who arnt going to quit use it to play with them, and then suddenly I can't join 1/3rd of the sessions In neos because a few popular users have been convincing everyone to use some plugin I don't want


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:18:54
content:
  Again people are free to use it and they can and it's very cool, I just personally don't like it, and don't think it's a replacement for updates because many users will be like me and won't care about the features it provides and don't want to download a plugin off github and put it in their game folder and break version compatibility with their friends


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:19:58
content:
  Think iPhone. Why did it take 3 generations to implement a light function for the cam light? Because the hardware cant be directly accessed. A closed system A thing on every other phone was patched in as app a day after release


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:20:02
content:
  At least, it's a hard sell when all of your friends are security researchers and hobbyist programmers and are extremely conscious about using random plugins they don't absolutely need


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:20:52
content:
  People arnt going to want to go verify the source code of a plugin they don't care about just to join me


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:21:16
content:
  Neos is an open system and can profit from player additions as such. But it does need a better implementation and is just one side of it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:22:21
content:
  I only play neos with friends and sometimes join random worlds but most of the time there is no random worlds to join so just wait till friends are on


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:22:21
content:
  People are in private worlds because we just want to chill with eachother. I like to hop around public worlds and I think what you're forgetting is it's always been like this. Not quite as much but the private session percentage has ALWAYS been over half, and usually over 70%


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:23:46
content:
  Anyone who's played for a long time can back that up. There's a reason we always had the funny hermit level bar


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:27:44
content:
  Which again I don't give any craps about because I've only had two times where I've gotten into a discussion with mods over something that's happened in my sessions or that I've done and neither lead to any issues on my part


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:28:29
content:
  Someone might have guessed (from my avatar) that i have worlds that i dont want mods to join. Not because there is something forbidden in there but because its like getting caught with your pants down. I never had the issue that a mod violated my privacy and only once had a mod ask to join because of a complaint (see troll today for why)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:29:16
content:
  Exactly. The mods of this game while I don't like ALL of them it has never been an issue with me or any of my friends of them joining and making a fuss


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:30:18
content:
  Yeah the issue is more about if they see a world preview and join it based on that and not just to hang out


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:31:26
content:
  as the person who is making this plugin just because your on another connection hash. does not mean you dont have to follow guidelines as long as your using neos base game you must follow the guidelines hiding behind a plugin does not protect you i will file complaints and tickets if i have to myself.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:32:39
edit_date: 2022-09-26 14:32:51
content:
  Actually it is not a mod's job to actively police sessions, if they join they usually just want to hang out. Policing is done via the ticket system. Thanks


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:32:47
content:
  Yeah having the world public makes it sort of open ness that's why it's chaos in public worlds but fun


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:34:30
content:
  as per neos, the host of the session can dictate rules ontop of the current existing guidelines please follow what the host of the session says


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:36:45
content:
  Exactly. Either way you're not truly public. One requires you to have a plugin (most people don't) and the other requires to be friends with someone in the session (most people aren't, but I'd argue more are than have the plugin)


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:37:41
edit_date: 2022-09-26 14:38:20
content:
  If people can join your world without an invite, then you need to act like it, regardless of version hash


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:38:53
content:
  If it's private it's already hidden, if it's not hidden but set to anything else it's not invite only


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:39:19
edit_date: 2022-09-26 14:39:26
content:
  Either private and only you can invite, or contacts+ and your friends can invite friends and so can their friends and so on


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:40:21
content:
  For hidden you need friends friends don't like chaotic worlds but public world users do it's always random who joins every day


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:40:44
content:
  the api still returns the worlds and previews on discord if you host a public session on another universe or plugin


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:41:35
content:
  Actually interesting question. Would it be valid to make a public world with a link to a unlisted world, with an explanation what to expect from the target world and an "i agree" checkbox? Would that be in line with rules, even if the unlisted world doesnt comply to public world rules?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:42:40
edit_date: 2022-09-26 14:42:45
content:
  Contacts only session > list of sessions accessible all with cloud variable access. 

  I'm sure they would have done what you suggested if it was allowed


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:43:53
content:
  But why. The public rules are there for people not to stumble into questionable stuff. Not to make them unable to find it


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:44:16
content:
  Could be handy before joining a world yeah click orb or world a text pops up with accept these rules and then join


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:45:56
content:
  Those would be helpful but would not be a substitute for age checks or not breaking public guidelines in public worlds respectively


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:47:02
content:
  I disagree, I'd really hate that, but I'm sure I could still find people to hang out with without giving my ID to a company


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:48:41
content:
  I mean what do I care, Ive joined an adult session all of... twice, once by accident and the other to try and get a friends attention to talk to them in my world


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:49:50
content:
  This is a future idea so basically you got a id card right connect it to Neos and depending age you show different kind of worlds like if your id is from Europe you can have gambling and if it's from USA you cant access those


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:54:38
content:
  People don't understand that what people do on a platform isn't directly associated with the platform


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:56:04
content:
  Not to mention, if the entire system is supposed to be decentralized, then how the hell are you supposed to enforce anything like what you are saying?


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:57:01
content:
  But when it comes to decentralization first there needs to be a global law regarding things in games in order for it to be decentralized


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:58:22
content:
  Basically flame what I'm saying is that right now Neos is not perceive the same way Apache or NGINX is perceived Neos is not perceived as another form of the Internet like a server host for a website is it is perceived as a platform that is owned by one company and so such as Facebook or Twitter or reddit


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 14:58:53
content:
  If people saw Neos with headless is such the way they saw websites then I would be OK with it but for now the public perception is not in that form


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:00:14
content:
  Small amounts of gambling amongst friends is Legal And I think it's fine on Neos the problem comes when it's an actual organization taking a cut


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:00:51
content:
  I think if you're just gambling with some friends over outcomes of things I don't see it as a problem it's when there's a big organization taking a cut that it becomes both a legal and moral problem


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:02:13
content:
  I should have spoken a little more carefully it's not the gambling that I find an issue it's casinos and companies based around gambling making a profit


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:02:37
content:
  If you're just gambling peer to peer with two friends no one is going to be outraged when you lose your money because it's just you and friends


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:03:45
edit_date: 2022-09-26 15:03:52
content:
  Yes as long as it's just bets between a few friends that's what I'm fine with, It's when it's a giant organization that is making money taking a say 5% cut and basically stealing from people because that's what I think casinos are


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:04:35
content:
  Gambling is a fun activity to do with your friends but when a company gets involved and makes money off it then I see that company as a scummy and shady company that does not deserve my respect


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:05:12
content:
  Taxes makes sense to me because public infrastructure has to be paid for in someway hell I'm Canadian so I definitely liked Being able to go to the hospital a few weeks ago and not pay anything because I had already paid for it with my taxes


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:06:08
edit_date: 2022-09-26 15:06:21
content:
  But I feel like each individual country should have some form of control over currency inside of its borders


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:08:01
edit_date: 2022-09-26 15:08:11
content:
  For example a large problem I have with the Blockchain is that everything you do is public so if anyone can tie your wallet to you they know your entire spending history ever


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:12:07
edit_date: 2022-09-26 15:12:11
content:
  Honestly ignoring my objections about this I don't think you would ever be able to get every country in the world under one law


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 15:13:40
content:
  You can't just make an online law every country has to follow, they all have to agree to follow it. Nothing stops countries from stopping following laws about the internet they follow right now aside from backlash from other countries


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 16:43:38
content:
  This have to go to court.
  The ownership has to be clarified to get to real conversation.
  Otherwise, it just pends on and on.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 16:44:39
content:
  and by the way, Karel wants open sourced so the volunteers will get what they want eventually. something like neos+


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 16:46:41
content:
  A standstill of 5 years helps noone. There is nothing to figure out besides who owns the code. If its owned by the company, they get a copy each. If froox owns it, there is really nothing to talk about.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 16:47:08
content:
  What is there more? The brand? As if that would have any big worth if there is no software attached.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 16:51:30
content:
  After it is clear who owns the code, the step of figuring out who gets the brand and who pays out who should be easy as pie. I mean if both have rights to the code, well, then there has to be a talk about who gets the brand obviously, but seriously, as if that is the main issue. Neos as a brand isn't worth that much, considering the bad press it got and the trouble it gots in. I am pretty confident one of the sides could pay out the other in that.


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 20:21:13
content:
  dividing up the money is pretty much a complete different issue, as it is owned by the company anyway. The half-half split is given by that anyway


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 20:35:58
edit_date: 2022-09-26 20:36:34
content:
  however the difficulty would be, who is to be allowed to continue hosting assets. And who may still have the account database


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 20:43:11
content:
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but both visions, the one shared by Frooxius and the volunteers and the other by Karel, have a good thing in common. They both don't want to sell Neos to corporates and relinquish control over that metaverse


type: message
date: 2022-09-26 21:03:59
content:
  I see it that way yes. Now let's hope that this vision can bring both sides to provide us with a resolution. The sooner the better, but my hopes are quite low actually.
  What will happen is a complete mystery.


type: message
date: 2022-09-27 17:20:11
content:
  I knew that but wanted to ask cause I don't know my way around. Drdoge.eth and I have been creating content for months


type: message
date: 2022-09-28 19:58:14
content:
  Hello, is there anything, to rely on ? Roadmap ? Timelines ? I am kinda lost, as we all are I guess.


type: message
date: 2022-09-28 21:35:31
edit_date: 2022-09-29 05:14:31
content:
  the main neosvr Roadmap for development when it was ongoing is https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/projects/1. but in regards for NCR or the crypto aspect nothing i'm afraid and neosvr is currently in a work standstill


type: message
date: 2022-09-29 09:18:54
content:
  So froox is demanding full ownership for the code he has written and won't budge at all and that's why Neos is stuck? "Nice"


type: message
date: 2022-09-29 11:12:52
content:
  Maybe, but it is speculation only since we have so little information on what's going on. I am starting to think that at this point, there is a common effort done purposely in order to leave us into the fog.


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 06:49:29
edit_date: 2022-09-30 06:54:39
content:
  Yeah I’m so happy about the recent Ethereum Merge that decreased the power consumption of the network by about 99.95%. That there wasn’t any major problem and the network is now sustainable including on chain NCR transactions. 😊


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 06:50:04
edit_date: 2022-09-30 06:55:06
content:
  Staking was initially meant to be directly integrated with Neos Account wallets so everyone would be staking on their balance by default no action needed. That would take some time given the situation rn.


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 06:51:52
edit_date: 2022-09-30 07:05:39
content:
  Alternatively we could do an on chain solution like Uniswap V3 Staker Contract https://docs.uniswap.org/protocol/reference/periphery/staker/UniswapV3Staker or a deal with an exchange providing staking services.


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 06:53:03
content:
  Staker contract would need a Js UI to make it easy to use, not sure if there is an existing one we could use


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 08:14:19
edit_date: 2022-09-30 08:25:39
content:
  Hello everyone,

  We have listened to your feedback and made some updates to our website. We hope you like the new look!🚀

  In addition to the usual information about Neos, we are now featuring more in-game screenshots and videos on the homepage and a separate Feature page. 

  We have also automated the process of adding NCR to your Metamask wallet which should save you a lot of time and energy. Now you can just click on a button that will launch a script that takes care of the rest but do let us know in case you experience any issues.

  We hope that overall the site now reflects better what Neos is about and we encourage you to give us your feedback as always.☺️🙏

  Also many thanks to those of you who gave us permissions to showcase their work! We tried our best to credit all authors where possible, but please let us know if you have any objections.


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 09:01:48
content:
  Thank you.
  I belive Neos is being sucessfuly used as a teaching aid at the School of Geoscience which is part of the University of Sydney. 

  However if this is an outdated or incorrect information or the University of Sydney has a problem with their logo being displayed, we would be of course happy to promptly remove it. 
  Thank you for your kind feedback regarding the rest☺️


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 09:03:03
edit_date: 2022-09-30 09:04:22
content:
  Ahhhh the geoscience stuff, I'll have to double check on that one. 

  It's also a problem with the definition of partnership which can vary from: "They use us" to "we have signed paperwork"


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 09:05:58
content:
  No problem, thanks for the comment. Please do reach out to me directly regarding this or any other technicality. For sure we want to have things in the right order ☺️


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 19:01:07
content:
  I like most of the updates to the website, though I noticed some of the UI elements are still wonky on mobile user agents, and towards the end of the features page there's a misspelling of session


type: message
date: 2022-09-30 19:43:36
content:
  Karel, @malooniac , I was wondering, since the former mass communications director resigned, are they any plans intended regarding social media communication, promoting, advertising marketing ? Ty


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 15:17:39
edit_date: 2022-10-01 17:12:06
content:
  Hello Karel, I know that there was water under the bridges, but what about this mindset? Is NCR meant to die or is it worth trusting/believing in your vision? I am still optimistic but what about you?

  https://imgur.com/a/UHkAFEG


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:26:47
content:
  The devs just don't want to work on the game anymore even tho they are confident they own the code it's weird 🤔


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:32:32
content:
  Neos where you build things in-game and have a ingame market where you can buy avatars and such from


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:40:06
content:
  I agree, we need usecases and development for NCR otherwise it will be remembered as a pump and dump scheme.


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:50:05
content:
  Yeah theoretically you could already set up a website and sell the .7zbson packages for items made in Neos there but Neos doesn't have item licensing and hard permissions yet which needs to be implemented


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:52:37
content:
  So that's what the dispute is about Karel can't hire devs when the source code isn't getable which is via lawyers


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:58:23
content:
  contractors would have signed contracts which none of them did so solirax wont even own the code it was more accurate volunteer work


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 17:59:20
content:
  karels words yes, but to for a company to own it the people wouldve had to sign contracts and none of them have.


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:03:26
content:
  They lost the passion to work on updates and now there is no Neos store i was looking forward to it tbh


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:04:24
edit_date: 2022-10-01 18:04:49
content:
  We have only so much information about what is happening behinds the scenes. The best we understand is that they don't want to work with karel, so they are not updating.
  In your case, it seems like assumptions and rumors you just made up. You are speaking on behalf the team that you arnt on.


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:05:15
content:
  So basically they are using Karel as excuse to not update and because of their unwillingness to do so kill the game and community


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:07:18
content:
  Im going to assume you have just misinterpreted what people said, or your "inner circle" knows nothing


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:08:10
content:
  Neos would have been unplayable already long ago, if they dont keep it running. For example fixxing the cloud infrastructure when it has hiccups and more.


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:10:25
content:
  This wont happen, and if it does, you might as well keep waiting for updates, because new devs wont pick up that code easily.


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:13:54
content:
  Waiting isn't good enough anymore the devs showed their unwillingness to move on and resume development after a year


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:18:15
content:
  Like i think tbh that people that make mods and people from the Neos+ can come together form a new dev team for Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 18:22:06
content:
  So what would happen theoretically if solirax were to hire people to work on a fork of Neos right now?


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 19:59:27
content:
  Its kind of cute how often its implied Neos is this space-age alien code that no one but galaxy brain froox and his friends can ever comprehend


type: message
date: 2022-10-01 21:45:55
edit_date: 2022-10-01 21:52:58
content:
  Alex there is not a lack of passion and nor is there a lack of willingness. Were not shipping updates out of choice. Please re read all the statements we've made and stop falling foul of random speculation and rumors which have no basis in fact.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 00:36:53
content:
  We're working as fast as we can, nagging doesn't do anything Alex but you know this, we've told you a few times.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 00:41:35
edit_date: 2022-10-02 16:35:17
content:
  The saddest part froox could have worked on Neos when the influx of new users was happening to show willingness to update Neos with better usability but the chance is now gone


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 00:43:54
content:
  There will be plenty of more opportunities in the future to capitalize on an event in the VR industry :)


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 00:45:33
edit_date: 2022-10-02 12:30:24
content:
  I hold the dev team accountable for not updating Neos because their reason is not sufficient to kill the whole game over


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 01:02:41
content:
  I think Neos is very usable right now, even without enhancements or updates occurring regularly. It's fairly stable and we're still able to have regular events on it and build awesome things


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 01:05:07
content:
  But yeah the inner circle doesn't mind that they are already inner circle and nobody new needs to join and nothing needs to change to keep them happy


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 01:12:29
content:
  I think you're confusing Friends, Groups of Friends, Communities and "Secret circles" you make it sound like the illuminati or something. 

  Its just people that want to hang out together not in public worlds, its not a secret club out to get you or anything.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 04:17:39
content:
  I've also been getting into the habit of just leaving my world open. Granted, I'm doing random dev stuff so... that's why I am otherwise in private or contact+ environments. It would be nice to be able to have a status or whatever to more or less say "Yes, I'm in private, but totally fine with being poked" or whatever, but wishful feature requests they may be


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 04:26:06
content:
  as for the state of Neos and user retention... it's a lot of things, and merely updating something isn't going to magically make the problems go away. Besides the outside social outlook and general overview of the platform, internally, Neos is a bit like Linux, with (in my opinion) a general goal of making it so a user cannot tell that is what is happening underneath.

  For context, I have my SteamDeck. I install game, and game works. Controls are nice, screen is good, and seems to run fast. A general user doesn't really need to know that it's Linux Inside (tm). That being said, adventurous users can go into desktop mode and be greeted with KDE, and realize it can act as a portable PC, which is good for YouTube videos, checking Twitter, and so on. More advanced users can throw on extra apps and emulators to build onto it.

  And then there are nerds like me who have "10 hours of Hackerman" in the background while plugging a keyboard and mouse in, staring at a console screen and writing bash scripts to do clever tricks.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 04:31:29
content:
  In a sense, one aspect that could be desired is to more or less do something similar in nature. Valve had to compete with other consoles, and Neos has to compete, in a sense, with the other platforms. Neos has many layers to its operation, and not all users really care about the deeper parts. In a way, Neos may need to simply realize that for it to solve just ONE aspect of a problem, the answer isn't just one best answer, but rather best answers.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 04:32:20
content:
  again, this is just a baseline example for honestly only a portion of Neos's issues. There are a lot, and not all can just be solved by the dev team. Some of it is community based as well.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:08:25
edit_date: 2022-10-02 12:39:15
content:
  Neos is only going to get so many more of those. They has atleast two golden opportunities but squandered them to a childish inability to come together and a spineless fear of public perception over their own crypto and fundraisers. Like... How many more chances does this team deserve? And more importantly how many will they get? Because people are building on other platforms, and other giant companies are working and yet to launch theirs.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:10:41
content:
  There's two truly tangible things Neos has, imo. Their head start and their creed on giving users powerful ingame tools and freedom to use them


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:41:58
edit_date: 2022-10-02 12:39:37
content:
  its about control. And ego. They want to cling to this position of power they have in their community. That's why there's no room for another leader besides Froox, no room for Open Source and it'll always be this thing they say they "eventually" want to do, because they not only want to keep control, but they want to fancy themselves to be the open source type as well.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:42:46
content:
  I mean you're wrong, but you'll say you are right, then we'll argue, then you'll troll so I'll just stop with this, you're wrong.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:47:56
content:
  Why isn't it something you can commit to then? Why does it always have to be some coy remarks if this is a valid solution and, as you wish we'd believe, an eventual goal for the project?


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:50:45
content:
  I dunno why you can't just say to Karel "yeah, we want to go open source. Lets commit to that goal together so we dont have to work together. It will take time, but we atleast agree on this and build our solution based off this."


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:55:56
edit_date: 2022-10-02 16:36:11
content:
  Oh that's not the current issue with the negotiations, neither is it any tiny amount of the full picture. There's more items at play and conversations to be had. No I won't tell you what those are so just continue believing whatever you want.... It's most likely wrong.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:56:38
content:
  Froox and some of the team have expressed they do want to opensource, they aren't able to just change that overnight, It also isn't the only issue at hand. despite some people phrasing it as the main or only issue. You can read some of the discussion for Opensourcing on the github https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/2584#issuecomment-873821214


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:59:17
content:
  The current plan has seemed to be a gradual open sourcing as they are able to. As mentioned in that linked comment, starting with the plugin system. Licensed libraries would need to get special permission or be remade/replaced as well to allow a more opensource ecosystem


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 07:59:39
content:
  Drafting through Froox's explanation, especially regarding fragmentation... speaking from experience, that's a very real possibility. Ironically, it was even argued here in this very chat...


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:01:02
content:
  Prime I dont expect you to ever add anything of value, whether its directed at me or others, about these talks. Despite that you sure like to pop up and pretend to correct people's assumptions.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:02:37
content:
  Oh that's simply because the rumor mill is quite insane and I dislike it existing. 

  Oh the real reason we don't want to work with Karel is because they don't like cookies, naw its fruit, naw its puppies. 

  Think whatever you want, I'll correct inaccurate statements, to prevent their spread.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:03:48
content:
  I think Karel likes cheese. I mean its a reasonable assumption. Perhaps not fine cheese though. Expensive food can get crazy


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:06:23
content:
  and I regret to inform you, youre not quite as effective at controlling narrative as you may think, when all you can do is come in with a "trust me bro" all the time


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:07:19
edit_date: 2022-10-02 16:36:35
content:
  I don't really care how effective I am, Just that every time some inane falsehood is here, you have a team member saying "nope" will do. As I say you're free to think whatever you want.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 08:54:11
content:
  I speak as an NCR holder.
  I think froox and his team are building a new platform and will eventually pull out of neos. While Karel has spoken so much about his personality, froox will of course do something and the strongest thing he has is coding.

  On the positive side, if Neos' future is to be agreed upon, it will start with Karel's big apology to Froox.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 09:59:11
content:
  The dev team is still working on updating Neos and adding features, they just aren't releasing any of those updates yet


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 10:16:05
content:
  In my opinion, the team working on features doesn't mean much, when none of it could come to light for a long time. Because it could just as easily all be discarded if things don't go their way.


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 11:44:51
edit_date: 2022-10-02 12:30:59
content:
  Yeah the game stopped being community when the devs decide that updating wasn't going to be an option


type: message
date: 2022-10-02 17:50:29
content:
  hello everyone , new in the group but i hold some NCR for longer period now , sadly bought way to high🙈


type: message
date: 2022-10-04 21:57:56
content:
  can confirm. I may have a Steam Deck and can jump in now, but my Deck is currently afk grinding Elite for me right now


type: message
date: 2022-10-05 02:40:20
content:
  I’ve ruined my sleep schedule to where I’m neither Europe or USA time zone so I’m online when there is few sessions need to fix this


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 09:13:57
content:
  We as community know at least one, Karel is kicked out and he can operate NCR as 3rd party tool like anyone else on Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 09:14:58
content:
  Second we have heard from is that Froox demands ownership for all the code he has written so basically same as the first one


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 09:22:58
content:
  Then there isn't really any weight behind your words of how negotiations are going, seeing how skewed the optics are towards Karel from volunteer side. There might be just unacceptable demands offered which seem fair only to one side. This could apply to both sides, though.

  And for some reason forking is out of the question because it takes time and effort, while Neos has done nothing but wasted time for +6 months


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 09:24:50
content:
  we haven't been wasting time, we're trying as hard as we can to resolve this. 

  I don't share details because that's what I've been advised to do. When we have something to say we'll say it. 

  Until then, there's no much I can do.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 10:00:33
edit_date: 2022-10-06 10:00:47
content:
  I wonder how much more advanced the current development version of Neos is, the one that isn't being released yet


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 14:04:49
edit_date: 2022-10-06 14:05:06
content:
  Yeah @ProbablePrime at least tell us something about the hidden Neos code so we get something of hope that things will be fixed


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 14:06:11
edit_date: 2022-10-06 14:53:58
content:
  I bet the devs are secretly playing that version every day that's why they don't appear online anymore whilst before they were always on Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 14:07:35
content:
  uh... maybe? However, they don't just use that version, if it exists, as I've run into various team members online, and I don't have any different of a version than what is offered on the website and steam.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 15:23:58
content:
  The whole reason for the not updating getting dragged on is because the secret hidden updated version will be released after the current code has been given to Karel it's to get a head start on the development


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 15:48:08
content:
  What would the deep state ever want with Neos code... No it's simply just a group of people that is very closed off from everyone else in Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:13:59
content:
  Welp, SteamOS 3.3.2 might fix an issue that made Neos not really work in docked mode, so about to see if we have a winner


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:14:45
content:
  (It also adds a thing that required me to buy a HDMI dummy plug and spend an hour flashing it to act like one of my TVs, but I digress)


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:37:05
content:
  You are talking like they said they weren't working, but they have said many times that they are not PUSHING updates


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:37:56
content:
  I said it before the reason is so when they agree to give Karel the current code their version is miles ahead


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:38:27
edit_date: 2022-10-06 16:38:36
content:
  You cant just say "Everyone needs to know about this information that everyone needs to know about". Its not helpful and you're making up rumors/conspiracies.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:40:16
content:
  They can just do it where they give the code to Karel now and then their version will be equal to froox version  and people then need to decide but when froox version  is far ahead then people will go with the updated one


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:40:36
content:
  There haven't been any non-critical updates for over a year. This isn't just something that changed recently; it's been this way for a long while. I'm not sure why this has suddenly become something worth contesting


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:42:10
content:
  But in the case the code is actually split between both, then it'd be code based on the November 2021 version, which is almost a year old


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:43:19
content:
  hmm.... actually, no. I think at that point, it'd be based on the January release with the critical security patch.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:46:24
content:
  Geenz publicly has been making open source graphics that will likely get used with neos? Like whaa, secrets where?


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:46:52
content:
  I need to go back to sleep because clearly I'm in one of those dreams where I'm presented an impossible puzzle


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:47:53
content:
  Yes but why isn't the strategy of this reason said on the discord so people know what is really going on why there are no updates


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:50:32
content:
  There is no agreement yet that it will be used for it. As we still in the state of negotiations about neos in the first place. 
  So they dont want to spread false hopes aswell.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:51:58
edit_date: 2022-10-06 16:52:36
content:
  Nah the strategy is stalling the negotiations till froox version is far ahead with updates then split the codebase from the January update point and then after the split update Neos with the hidden updated one and then it's far ahead from the one Karel gets


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:56:04
content:
  You keep saying hidden as though the dev team hasn't said they're working on it, just not pushing updates.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:57:21
content:
  you are under the assumption that negotiations are stalled ONLY because of the versions not being separate enough, which doesn't make any sense at all. I think everyone can equally say they want things to progress, and the sooner that occurs, the better, so 'stalling' that makes no sense at all.
  Say that right now, we get a new announcement. Karel and Froox went over and had a pizza party with the finest gormet cheese topping and form an agreement. Code split be happening, y'all! At that exact moment, the two versions of Neos now exist. In a month's time, even if both started from the same point with no benefits of pre-done work or whatever, the two won't really be equal to eachother or have features worked on identical to its counterpart. That's how FORKS kind of work!


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 16:58:29
content:
  so it doesn't matter if there is a secret 'saucy' version because in the end, if the split does happen, it will mean the two would be different eventually anyway.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 17:05:12
edit_date: 2022-10-06 23:56:23
content:
  For a social game it is important who gets the users, in a case of a split the first few weeks are important who has the better support or version. Whichever of the forks works best on the split gets most of the users. So even if the other fork becomes much better, the inertia keeps users with the platform they chose. If you want to see an example of that, just look at what happened with VRChat. People are coming back, not because the other VR social games are better, but because the user base they are friends with just happens to be there


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 17:17:30
content:
  yup. Hell, you want an example case of forks of the same literal program, look at HiFi and it's kitchen of forks; no matter how many exist, only certain ones get certain groups of people, and most only have a baker's dozen online at their peak


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 17:19:04
content:
  That's the other side, that is one of the reasons there won't be any open source neos any time soon. Because of this fragmentation


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 22:14:38
edit_date: 2022-10-06 22:15:16
content:
  Alex, you're just sharing random information that doesn't make any sense and drawing conclusions from it. You're welcome to do that sure whatever. The entire neos team love on the moon now it has a different jurisdiction than the earth and that means the inner circle shadow cabal can have their way with neos and use it brain wash broccoli.

  Or you could read our public statements and patiently wait for any further news. Is that hard yes very hard. But is it better than spreading rumors about some sort of crazy inner circle. Yes.


type: message
date: 2022-10-06 22:18:13
content:
  Again though strike is the wrong word. I have no job. Everyday I wake up and try to make neos better in so many ways that is my job. Or do we all just forget about the weekly amas hundreds of tutorials and frequent wiki updates.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 15:49:52
content:
  Not in its current state. And probably still wouldn't if it got back to where it was before 31/10/2021. NCR would need a complete functional makeover for me to even start taking it seriously again. Which would include it being liquid backed, stable, and very easy to transfer between multiple money services. A pipe dream...


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 15:56:30
content:
  welp, hopefully something happens so I know if I need to set my storage size to be extra large for many years or not


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:00:25
content:
  bruh, I'm from Second Life, and I still sign in from time to time. Doesn't mean I left the damn platform.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:02:18
content:
  1) Who the hell cares what people do in their off time? If that was the case, Phillip Rosedale was on Neos AND VRChat, and on the death of his own platform, he suggested people go to Neos. If the CEO of a god damn platform being on Neos is somehow him 'leaving' a platform, especially considering his position in Linden Lab (again), then SL must be doubly screwed.
  2) They outright said on Twitter they weren't leaving the Neos team!


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:05:19
content:
  well, screwballs! I guess I'm leaving Telegram and Discord because I use Teams at work! Can't use anything else except one app. Alex said it here first, ladiest, gentlemen, and everything inbetween!


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:05:30
content:
  Tbh I sold all my bag a week ago, opportunity cost is too high right now.. being optimistic won't help recovering losses I guess


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:07:03
content:
  No? I mean, I guess we're bringing console wars into the social platform space now, I'll grab the turtle beach headphones and practice my COD rage voice


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:07:15
content:
  A funny thing that's sort of related, is that a majority of the team at Meta don't use horizon worlds because they hate it. And Meta is begging them to use it.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:07:49
content:
  Let me silence you fool! I can tell you they absolutely were on Second Life before Neos. How? I wrote the vendor system they used! That is how I knew Geenz, and MANY other people!


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:08:40
content:
  It's not like playing a pvp game or another type of game no second life is a Neos compeditor so going there is betrayal


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:17:30
content:
  or at least please read people's tweets better. Seriously, Geenz outright said they are still continuing work for Neos, which your original argument was they were leaving, which was false, to then sideways move it as 'being in two places at once is bad', which is also false


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:21:28
content:
  I'm going to take a nap and see what more of a chaotic show has unfolded later, then I need to jump back into Neos and fiddle with some stuff.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:21:37
content:
  It's not making up it was predicted that this would be the result of the strike first chroma left now geenz is doing this and geenz got Neos friends they probably move to second life too and then when will they play Neos? If friends are only online on a certain platform they will go where friends are


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:23:16
content:
  It takes one friend of a friend group to start playing  another social game and then friends group follows or falls apart


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:25:46
content:
  it might as well be. We have explained to you how much what you said doesn't make any sense at all, and yet you twist even your own statements to work with your own narrative. I'd love to have the amount of ignorant bliss that you have, but I'd prefer to retain a certain amount of sanity so that I can continue to do my work.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:30:44
content:
  Yeah... but also no? I feel adding a market this early will just doom things even harder. Stability fixes and improvements to performance would be great so that a market can stand on a stronger foundation. If a happier medium was to be, a different take on content distribution would be nice, so that services like Gumroad can be paired with Neos via an API. That way, a person who pays for a product on such can log in and have the content already in their inventory, should the creator prepare it in advance.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:31:56
content:
  Adding a market economy will give people more interest i see a great use for it now like the tweet from ghostz36 he is doing comissioms now for neosvr items


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 16:34:16
content:
  technically, nothing is stopping them from just asking for NCR in-game. Sold content, however, would still require a change in item distribution methods, and even then you still would need an entire branch of people to aid with market support. That's pretty much an entire second half to a system.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 19:53:54
edit_date: 2022-10-08 21:22:53
content:
  I understand you guys really want NEOS to be better and I really appreciate that but please be careful with your words, sometimes we don't really mean like that so please be very careful. There isn't really a straight FUD or maybe it is so I will end this only as a warning. Thank you very much.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 21:36:23
content:
  I dont see anything wrong with someone being a dev of multiple platforms. I wouldn't say that sl is "the competition" either but like, you can work for multiple games, it isn't abandonment. Its your choice! He is not stopping work on Neos either.


type: message
date: 2022-10-08 23:08:23
content:
  For the majority of the time that I have been on the neos team I worked for Microsoft that owns altspace. It wasn't an issue. 

  Before Neos I worked on Mixer while streaming and being active in the twitch community. It wasn't an issue.

  For the majority of the time that geenz has been on the neos team they have had other jobs too. They aren't leaving our team they are just working more than one  job. It's kinda their thing. They work a lot.

  You can absolutely be on multiple platforms at once and provided you have the time work for both. Geenz has that time so he's doing it. Lots of people do this.

  It doesn't mean Devs are leaving and it doesn't mean that we are giving up. If you re read his Twitter thread you'll see this right from geenz themselves. It cannot be any clearer.

  Now don't construe the following as any form of announcement I'm speaking generically, companies in this area working closer together to learn and grow should be a goal. It can lead to interoperability and a better overall industry. 

  We also don't have any open positions right now. If that changes there will be an announcement.


type: message
date: 2022-10-10 10:07:11
content:
  infact, I think a dev that moonlights is a dev worth hiring because he or she is in demand and knows her skills well enough to build in multiple companies.


type: message
date: 2022-10-12 14:04:33
content:
  they were part of the Neos team, you can read about that on the history of the Neos wiki's team page.


type: message
date: 2022-10-13 09:18:36
edit_date: 2022-10-13 12:17:16
content:
  don't worry. Just cope by believing they have this advanced unreleased version theyre working on in secret and we can pretend together that Neos is OK


type: message
date: 2022-10-13 09:22:55
edit_date: 2022-10-14 05:26:08
content:
  Someone only left because they were uh... just such a super creative furry who like, wasn't being challenged enough or something. Totally not because they played an active part in canceling their own funding and now realize this situation is bleak and backpats and froox hugs don't put food on the table


type: message
date: 2022-10-13 09:25:26
content:
  great job putting words in their mouth, when they have a full note on their twitter about it. 

  Remember to cite your sources!


type: message
date: 2022-10-13 09:38:42
edit_date: 2022-10-14 08:41:35
content:
  to be fair, I read their doc but it was written like they were drunk and that's what I got out of it


type: message
date: 2022-10-13 21:02:53
content:
  Building in Neos has been so much fun for me. I only found Neos a couple months ago, and it's such a joy to figure out things and build in VR! 🤩🤩🤩

  I've tried a wide range of other platforms, and the possibilities are endless in Neos! 🥰🥰🥰


type: message
date: 2022-10-14 14:54:34
content:
  haha, yea, true. But Neos IS awesome in what you can do. Its definitly not the biggest problem neos has


type: message
date: 2022-10-14 21:47:24
edit_date: 2022-10-15 10:54:47
content:
  If metavers will prevail then the only advantage over the tech giants is the eventual decentralization. Because the others have money and can probably do something like NEOS better. For this reason I find crypto as a way for NEOS to build a protective moat against the competition. You should not always see the negative in Crypto. Otherwise you might only see the negative in the Metaverse. There's so much you could write a book about.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 06:14:58
content:
  Right now the future of the metaverse is in the hands of four companies… 
  - Meta
  - Microsoft
  - Apple
  - Linden Lab


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 06:23:59
content:
  I just wish crypto wasn't so speculative and like, well... one thing i notice is that a lot of people are super greedy. What tends to happen is people only care about the number going up, which this type of crypto (at least NCR) was a gamble from the start. It was originally intended to grow naturally as the game got more players, but well, metaverse craze happened, was a huge pump and dump, hurting NCR in the process. I'm not saying all people think this way but this is what always seems to happen.

  People could lose (and have lost) serious amounts of money and NCR feels like gambling. It's not the best when i sell something and have a weird currency that isn't reliably valued.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 06:32:50
edit_date: 2022-10-15 06:33:10
content:
  Yeah, crypto in general feels like gambling. Im down 80% of everything I’ve invested in crypto… one day something viral will happen and will be up again to be down a short time later


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 06:38:12
content:
  My goal is to do the classic safe investment. Put 2.5M in the S&P500 and get a 10% annually from that… No idea how to get 2.5M btw.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 06:55:38
edit_date: 2022-10-15 06:56:09
content:
  most of the crypto community, at least the very vocal part seems to be extremely greedy in my experience too.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 07:12:07
edit_date: 2022-10-15 08:02:41
content:
  And of that list, Philip had an entire talk about the fundamental issues observed with crypto, and given he's back observing the project, I'm not sure if the Lab will have any interest with it. No idea how to find it, but he gave a really neat talk on Twitter's spaces thing or whatever all about LindeX and the secret sauce behind it


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 07:37:49
edit_date: 2022-10-15 08:03:07
content:
  You are unfortunately 80% down because you don't know or didn't follow the rules of the game. But a little luck is of course part of the game. Where there is much to lose, there is also much to win.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 08:19:15
content:
  Meta builds a centralized shit based on the ideas of Mark. This is like a horror movie and not a metaverse.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 08:22:04
content:
  crypto goes thru cycles , bullisch and bearisch and indeed is extremely volatily , newcommers offtenly hear about the buzz when a strong bull cycle is comming to an end and then dive into crypto at the worst time possible . 80-90% decline happened each bear cycle so far , cycle tend to complete every 4 year (also the time for a BTC halving to occur)


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 08:23:32
edit_date: 2022-10-15 18:50:14
content:
  btc and major crypto survive each cycle (so far) the smaller ones die and new ones arise each cycle , i made a stupidid mistake to invest a good amount in NCR at high prices . it remains to be seen what NCR does next bull cycle ........


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 08:24:45
edit_date: 2022-10-15 08:45:44
content:
  and turn it around : peoiple investing now in crypto have a good chance to see there investement go 3-10x within 3 years


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 17:13:24
content:
  Volatility isn't unique to crypto. Look at the charts for Netflix, Shopify, etc. Or penny stocks. Or oil going from negative to $100 in under a year. It's a tired old argument.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 17:34:35
content:
  Difference is I can live without Netflix and the price of oil fluctuating is something that is still manageable and with alternatives. The value of a currency fluctuating madly, however, is something that if life is relied on, it turns everyday into a roulette. Making all bills universally higher or lower by large percentages daily is not good by anyone's eye, unless life simply doesn't matter


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 18:21:13
edit_date: 2022-10-15 18:51:13
content:
  The Bretton Woods agreement was collapsed in 1971. In those 50 years since the collapse, the dollar has been over-issued 54 times, leading to severe inflation.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 19:42:01
edit_date: 2022-10-16 03:05:39
content:
  Also, I think I found the metaverses that meta confused with being the only relevant other metaverses. AltspaceVR and maybe Rec Room. Both don't have legs


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 20:43:08
content:
  I can do you one better.
  I did and it was okay, but I worked ironically for its competitor as a support and engagement associate, mostly for server trouble shooting and technical assistance. The reason it's ironic is because High Fidelity, my previously contracted job, was run by Phillip Rosedale... who founded Linden Lab.


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 20:43:35
edit_date: 2022-10-16 03:06:32
content:
  I'm not sure if Sansar is exactly running too well, since it was sold off and is no longer under Linden Lab's umbrella


type: message
date: 2022-10-15 20:58:11
edit_date: 2022-10-15 22:30:45
content:
  I am only a crypto gambler but I admire how the Neos community loves this product without making money with it. Just as a drive to create something cool and have fun together. Respect 🤙. I hope that the problems around the project will be solved 
  and you remain the protagonists.


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 03:07:45
edit_date: 2022-10-16 03:08:00
content:
  I agree, and that’s why it hurts so much to see the founders fighting, Neos getting stuck and Meta dominating.


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 11:31:04
content:
  Crypto has disruptive potential.
  If it catches on, some giants will fall. Because in order to play in this market, they would have to destroy themselves. 
  So it makes sense for Neos to come up with a meaningful web3 concept. I don't mean pump and dump. I hope the founders see it that way and will settle the dispute.


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 12:04:49
content:
  Just wanted an update on the situation since it all happened many months ago, has any progress been made, I’m assuming no looking at the chart


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 14:23:45
content:
  I found out the 1.09euro pizza got more cal than the 3x300 gr pizza which per pizza is 100cal less and the 3x pizza costs 4.60 whilst individually boxed pizza are cheaper and more cal


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 22:19:52
content:
  yeah I guess... Just annoyed about the highly off-topic noise. Would rather there not be anything posted here than that IMO


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 22:22:22
edit_date: 2022-10-16 22:24:56
content:
  I don't think it's that much of a stretch, this also happens consistently and has been problematic in the past


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:01:22
content:
  I sense that this was meant to be more entertaining response to the question about the progress on negotiations. 
  Which in fairness was quite amusing, and while I am thrilled that canned raviolli are now 9 cents cheaper (even though I prefer spaghetti hoops myself) this is hardly an appropriate topic 😁, so please @Alex_A_avali  kindly let’s revert back to relevant stuff. Thank you😊


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:02:16
content:
  What are some things you have been excited about when it comes to VR/AR/metaverse?☺️
  I got quite hyped up by this Quest Pro demonstration at the weekend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUIE2l_9ig8
  We can all think whatever we like about Meta but with this kind of hardware, I belive VR will gradually go completely mainstream and that is great news for the future of Neos also, as with more platform agnostic and open source approach ( if this is the road we will eventually embark on), most of people will be able to access it and find some life enhancing or fun use case. 🙂

  What I am also curious about is if the preference of users will turn more towards MR and AR or we will continue to choose the more immersive VR route. Or both.

  What is your take?


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:07:07
content:
  Neos will surely be able to utilize mixed reality, what exactly for I'm not too sure... whatever someone wants.
  I know that we already have a mixed reality camera in Neos, although it would be a lot cooler to operate through the passthrough features


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:23:31
content:
  Yes I have seen some cool stuff with Neos camera, I belive it was Orange, making a lot of fun videos. The future is very exciting for sure🚀 For once, this kind of insane passthough will really help to make VR more social and less isolated experience, which is something quite problematic right now, in most cases, not just for fun & social use but for educational use as well for instance - you can imagine that handling the whole class of kids wearing headsets which make everyone "blind" including the teacher, has a potential for some shenanigans 😁


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:27:15
edit_date: 2022-10-17 01:32:01
content:
  I assume when you say it's not a social experience, you mean in the context of like, having a physically present friend over. In which case I understand that. I would like to see more in-person linked experiences where play-spaces are shared, which goes along nicely for MR and education/research/business especially.


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:27:42
content:
  Oh really? I had liked the one on the hololens and the way it created a lattice over the entire room


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:28:12
content:
  yeh they removed the depth sensor due to well... the prototypes had the same effect as a old phone that was removed from market... it could see through clothes


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:30:41
edit_date: 2022-10-16 23:30:55
content:
  removed all google services unlocked the bootloader and on dev website handed us the source code and sdk.


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:32:28
content:
  I assume there has to be other types of 3d sensors though, something like lidar, although that is probably inefficient power usage


type: message
date: 2022-10-16 23:33:41
content:
  Oh well, not too big a deal I suppose. I'd mostly be curious to see how well their passthrough cameras are holding up.


type: message
date: 2022-10-17 01:28:21
edit_date: 2022-10-17 01:32:05
content:
  It's exciting to see more headset options for new users. Just showed a couple people VR experiences and they are intriguing by the applications. 

  AR has been exciting to me for some applications, and I've enjoyed sharing VR for collaborative building, especially Neos. For me, worldbuilding in Neos has encouraged people to get into VR to try it for themselves.


type: message
date: 2022-10-17 11:50:54
content:
  Not to beat a dead horse but if i'm getting paid, I want currency with reliable value. What if someone like... you know, gets paid and then the crypto goes down so they can't pay for food or something?


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 14:54:31
content:
  I did for 9 months then accepted the fact that the oppprtunity cost is too high for me. Just accept the loss 😅🤷‍♂️


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:10:09
content:
  I still think that there is future for NCR but i played since 2019 so NCR as a ingame currency and not as speculated currency just makes sense to me for example ingame store where you buy and sell items with NCR


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:11:05
content:
  I don't know, for an actual currency for use on a market, it needs to be quite stable and not that volatile as it has been last year


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:12:56
content:
  sorry, but it doesn't work like that. In game currencies are stable because they are regulated with sources and sinks. NCR however doesn't have that, it is a fixed amount of tokens and the value bound tightly to demands


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:14:06
content:
  L$ is carefully kept stable by controlling sources and sinks to keep the amount of circulating L$ matching the demand, making the trading value very much stable in the USD


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:15:46
content:
  However, due to the high amount of buy backs on NCR, it might be possible to Solirax to control the amount of NCR that is in circulation to also keep its trading value stable, which might make it possible to actually use it for a marketplace


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:33:20
content:
  The issue is that if you want to view L$ in relations to NCR, you'd have to make L$ a stable coin with an exchange rate controlled by the market value. There is no L$ outside of Linden Lab's control, but anyone can take NCR out of Neos and make with it as they please. As a result, its value can only be controlled if Neos itself holds the majority, and even then, it'd only be able to control what can be controlled with (i.e. no excess, no way to stabilize).


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 15:34:42
content:
  in some regards, despite the fact this would be stable and allow the currency to be... a currency, I have a feeling that also goes against the spirit of a token currency, especially one with a finite number.


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 18:23:50
content:
  I guess that's the bigger problem with adoption there. Two worlds that don't seem to go well with each other


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 21:05:36
edit_date: 2022-10-18 21:05:43
content:
  For a long time people actually got rewarded more than they paid for. You were earning money by being on patreon for a few months xD.

  I had assumed by now that patreon users didn't get anything now, or not much at all


type: message
date: 2022-10-18 22:33:16
edit_date: 2022-10-19 05:15:40
content:
  Karel what are you doing? Is it your only job to press the like button on Twitter? I don't think there's anything else you do


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 00:18:43
content:
  attempts to "fix" NCR by "stabilizing" it are flawed imo. It wasn't madw to be controlled, it was, full stop, DESIGNED to be speculated on. Why else would you be selling it to customers in advanced in an ICO with a sliding minting cost?


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 00:22:56
edit_date: 2022-10-20 10:43:17
content:
  NCR was harmed by a hostile community when hating crypto was the hot thing to do, then by an apathetic and childish team who wanted to take oit their grievance's of Karel onto their own funders, and then by the the buybacks which again I personally dont think is the place of anyone at solirax to be managing NCR's price or liquidity.


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 00:24:49
edit_date: 2022-10-20 10:43:26
content:
  NCR just needed to exist and be given functional use within Neos and its store (which will never come out) and not be partial to any internal disputes, but people failed to do that.


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 02:10:12
content:
  If I made an assumption than state it. Otherwise I think its odd both of you feel attacked by me adding my opinion about NCR after everyone else did.


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:04:31
content:
  Stablecoins are coins that basically attempt to keep their value related to something else. For example, HFC used to be 100 HFC for 1 USD. In a sense, L$ works in a similar way, in that it's value mostly remains related to USD, with VERY small adjustments based on market demand.


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:06:59
content:
  Yes, if someone would want to use NCR to buy your assets, it could be swapped to stablecoin on a way to you, automatically


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:08:21
content:
  if you are going to use it in a market, then you are adding more steps for the transaction. At that point, you render NCR under another currency... which remove the reasoning behind it (since doesn't that mean the value is really based on the stablecoin?)


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:10:49
content:
  not sure I'm following what your trying then. If you are buying assets via NCR, only to have it be swapped to a stablecoin during the transaction... then isn't the stablecoin the one really being used, rendering the overall point with NCR redundant? It sounds like you are doing a double layer transaction for really no reason at that point


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:16:10
content:
  The buyer is using NCR, you are getting stables because you want shield from NCR volatility. That would be an option, not default. Any additional steps are done on the background. I hope this simplified the logic enough


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:24:06
content:
  uh... you sure? Neos only has 2 currencies: NCR and KFC. KFC is the testing currency, which has functions already bound to it for testing. NCR is the primary currency of the platform at this time. Within the eco-system of the platform, there aren't any other built-in options so... yeah, NCR, at this time, is the only option, crypto or otherwise. Anything done outside of Neos is strictly outside out their hands, so if people exchange otherwise, it's not within Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 08:25:39
edit_date: 2022-10-20 12:30:47
content:
  Consider whether to cooperate with some popular games or animation companies
  Create some NFT to attract more people


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 14:29:10
edit_date: 2022-10-20 19:57:16
content:
  the other purpose is that its native to Neos, so citizens of that game can freely keep a balance of it, swap it amongst each other, use it in games, events, etc, in-game


type: message
date: 2022-10-20 18:51:08
content:
  the thing is... you can already do that to an extent. Non-functionally, of course (in that you can't make an arcade game and exchange that way). That was basically the idea to have NCR encompass all of that. The issues still remain about price volatility, especially with current services that DO use NCR at this time (namely storage expansion), which is still price locked. To that, did I spend over $1600 on more storage, for myself and others, or just $28?


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 07:43:29
content:
  someone thinks the value will be zero? I mean, it's gone down by a lot, but even I need to know how much each is worth so I can buy from people so I can get some sweet storage space


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 13:37:01
content:
  I would like to ask how many people in the community are in favor of a form of organization that has no entity, similar to a DAO. Because in our previous experience, a kneeling revolt is not successful. Only standing resistance is effective


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:06:22
content:
  What do you mean by that. There are multiple mention of fully open sourcing this project, but that has to come and be done by the actual owners of the code, whoever they may be


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:07:59
edit_date: 2022-10-21 15:11:24
content:
  Neos isn't only a name, its a software mostly. Without the software neos is just a website and a crypto currency with no use short of exchange.


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:10:01
content:
  Volatility is just an inherent part of NCR imo. Its up to the users to kind of be aware it is as such. It's just particularly bad in NCR's case because its devs became hostile toward it, development is in poor state, some of the community hate the holders of it and things just look generally like the game is going to die, or if it isn't going to die, it's going to be a pale shadow of what other platforms will be and might at best find a niche as a furry sex app.


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:11:10
content:
  Kind of like when a nation state is the victim of terrible geopolitical or economic circumstances, like the crash of the argentinian peso


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:12:21
edit_date: 2022-10-25 01:29:02
content:
  Its just Neos doesnt have the store it had been talking about making for years. So it seems silly to not talk about the elephant in the room and just act like NCR is the element that needs scrutiny.


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:13:57
content:
  Sorry to say that but store, features, NCR and everything else is standing in line behind the power struggle in neos. Until ownership is solved, one way or the other really, neos (or whatever the name of the future project with the neos code will be) is at a total stand still and whining about it will not change that.


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:14:24
content:
  I dont know wtf you mean by a DAO. The only standing solution I think is legal. You had a situation of wrongdoing on both sides, one directly hostile and damaging to their own funders. I don't see what you mean by DAO unless your brain just can only think of decentralized solutions to human problems, lol


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:22:23
content:
  instead of being like "hmmm gosh this thing is volatile" maybe you should be honest for once and see the situation for how it is?


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:24:21
content:
  devs have been dangling a knife over its neck for months, and its price action shows its been under the constant thread of being arbitrarily removed


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:25:32
edit_date: 2022-10-25 02:06:33
content:
  and then disingenuous people come in being like "gosh look at this flaw, look how its performing" despite it being in open threat (and honestly its worth than that)


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:30:20
content:
  I don't know whats more funny. That the bot deletes half your posts, that it speaks a language the majority doesn't understand or that it is actually admin


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:35:33
edit_date: 2022-10-25 02:08:03
content:
  In short I'd like it if when people talk this they atleast pretend to be doing so in good faith instead of coming in like Flame and ignoring ALL of the obvious s**t in the room, otherwise I'm having a hard time pretending it's perfectly normal behavior when flame and others ignore this shit when they talk about stable prices or whatever


type: message
date: 2022-10-21 15:39:15
edit_date: 2022-10-21 15:40:30
content:
  Well, i never flame, i also don't judge people for anything beside their actions. I am a pretty open person in general and like to keep it real. I dislike to feed grand illusions of any kind and try to solve things in the most efficient and reasonable way.

  Like i would like it for neos. There is no realistic chance of "resistance" of what the owner of neos do. There is also no chance NCR being anything without Neos. And the name neos itself is not much more then just a fancy word.


type: message
date: 2022-10-26 20:55:01
content:
  off topic, but this message bump resulted in me finding the valve cover for one of my tires when I looked down to check the messages.
  on topic, to save the copypasta: Any updates will be posted within the Discord and possibly the main Twitter account. Maybe it'll even become a pinned message here.


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 03:57:08
edit_date: 2022-10-27 04:52:52
content:
  fur babies are still here after 1 year 
  This platform is only for fluffy kids. 
  Frooxius is their angel 
  Karel is the devil to them


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 11:17:15
content:
  Tbh I sold bc I was too exposed and lost hope but I am still here watching and following the situation 👌


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 15:50:31
content:
  If you actually want some NCR, it is cheaper to get them on an exchange currently. However, what is your actual question?


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 21:53:52
content:
  I was watching this YouTube video by ThrillSeeker. The story of Neos was beautiful before the crypto-bros.

  Now I understand the Neos conflict. So, Frooxious wants to stay out of crypto and Karel don’t stop believing in crypto. Now Neos is divided into “two Neos”… but nobody knows who owns the code.


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 21:58:10
content:
  So sad… if the founders just focus on creating for the community (thinking outward) they could easily overcome their differences and get rich quick as a result. It seems like they don’t have a complete understanding of Neos’s potential


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:00:11
content:
  My personal opinion… forget about crypto. You don’t need crypto to move a virtual economy at the beginning. Start with a closed-loop token like Second Life… consider crypto later. Crypto tends to attract crypto-bros.


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:08:48
content:
  And its not really about crypto. Sure crypto lead to the problem in the first place, but "the problem" was money, not crypto as such


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:09:33
content:
  And its not really "the problem" at the moment, its the impass between the two owners... they have to solve this between them and clear up who owns what before it can go forward. Crypto has no part in that, one way or the other


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:13:59
edit_date: 2022-10-27 22:14:07
content:
  I think crypto is even likely to exist in Neos regardless of what happens, just that there might not be a native coin. Perhaps any token is welcome to neos, and NCR will be third party just like any other crypto. As Geenz put it, they want to have it where crypto wont be explicitly blocked nor explicitly supported


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:20:53
content:
  I have no problem with that. Just saying that this is not what NCR is about. It was meant as a "thank you" for early adopters and to keep track of people that put money in it, as a p*nis meter


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:21:35
content:
  For neos it doesn't mather that much and its not the issue one way or the other, but ncr is not worth much without neos. Its an utility token


type: message
date: 2022-10-27 22:28:14
edit_date: 2022-10-27 22:28:24
content:
  One thing about ncr is the free transfer of ncr inside neos. As a currency in a game this is "the essential" part


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:40:45
content:
  This is something I'd personally prefer. Reason being that it allows more options for everyone, not just in relation to currency. Gumroad, for example, has a full API system, so it'd be possible to use this system to interact with Gumroad or other services to establish confirmation of purchases, allowing creators to just directly give items to users and skip the setup steps. In theory.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:41:33
content:
  Heck, with Neos's desktop view, people could just shop online, do a purchase in however, and if the seller supported it, their items deliver right then and there.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:43:19
edit_date: 2022-10-29 04:19:57
content:
  It's not an accurate story. It's more just a dramatization dumbed down so people can try to understand it. In actuality it has very little if anything to do with crypto, it's just "cryptobros ruines it" is a compelling narrative and it's the one people want to hear.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:45:14
content:
  I was there though and this wave of cryptobros who was just apparently tearing the community apart was really just a number of people in the NCR channel, many of whom are not native english speakers.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:45:42
content:
  the community wasn't being affected. It was bored furries coming into the NCR channel LOOKING for arguments


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:46:50
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:50:05
content:
  The thrillseeker video was dumb but if thats the version of history we have to pretend is real then fine as long as we can move on.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:48:19
content:
  hmm.... no. Sort of, but no. In a nutshell, the 'bored furries' were always in a uphill battle trying to convince people to try a confusing platform. The whole crypto thing flew under the radar, until that event occured, resulting in it becoming a highlight. Unlike the people joining in at the time, most people in the other VR platforms despise crypto entirely, down to some groups outright changing tools if it had any relation. Now the same people had "a confusing platform" and "a crypto nightmare" all in one package.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:49:18
content:
  Not to mention, it's safe to say that if the people who DID join in during that time actually signed into Neos, then it's population would go up but... it didn't. It stayed neutral to going down. Some people LEFT because of that event.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:50:28
content:
  Well the think about a native currency is that like, there's already a ton of people in Neos who already have NCR. It IS the native currency there.

  It's like a fur going up to a president and saying "hmmm I dont think your citizens need your pesos. I think you should get rid of it. You can use US Dollars or Euros anyway."


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:52:42
edit_date: 2022-10-28 06:53:07
content:
  Then that kind of contradicts this narrative that cryptobros were invading the community and bothering everyone. They weren't. It's that very quickly Crypto became a dirty word and Neos furs had targets for THEM to harass. I was there the whole damn time.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:54:44
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:51:40
content:
  Now it seems like Neos failure to grow is going to be blamed on crypto because "oh i tried to shill it on twitter but people didnt like it had a hidden crypto element" etc. Instead of it having a terrible UI and beginning experience and a host of other problems.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:55:22
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:51:49
content:
  Neos community loves to point fingers and shift blame, so Im not surprised if that'll be the cope for Neos' failure.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:57:05
content:
  in fact, Checkback before the video was made, and Thill outright wanted to AVOID Neos after "being scammed by the devs".
  https://twitter.com/Thrilluwu/status/1551829977800343552


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:58:09
content:
  I've seen several Discord groups change moderation tools all because the one they were using got involved in accepting crypto as a substitute payment method. People are VERY sensitive to it, even if you don't see it in function


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 06:59:02
content:
  And dont pretend to act like Neos made any attempt to communicate about it like "we have a token that's been sold for 4 years now and is used to pay for storage" etc, the devs instead joined in on the current fad and started lambasting their own players, the people actually paying money into Neos. I can't think of a more childish way to react.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:02:56
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:53:25
content:
  see, this is how it was always handled. It wasnt trying to explain, "look, there's a seperate client where you can tip someone a crypto token that's oir version of lindens, etc" it was "YEAH CRYPTO IS LAME BUT ITS THE FAULT OF THIS KAREL GUY"


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:03:14
content:
  Yeah? I watch his videos. I also watch other's and talk at times with some other people. People are people.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:04:30
content:
  Just hiding something doesn't mean it magically goes away. Despite that explanation, some people still want nothing to do with Neos, even IF the Steam version hides the reason people have issues.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:06:52
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:54:14
content:
  It was the cowardly stance to fold to the mob mentality that not just you, not just all the dev's friends, but the devs themselves. They were so scared of looking bad on social media to a bunch of people who were never going to play the game anyway, that they threw their own funders under the bus to buckle to a trend. And effed up alot of regular people. Tons of Japanese players got wrecked because they believed in Neos to put their money into it.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:09:30
content:
  Naw, it was totally worth this identity crisis and throwing actual Neos funders under the bus... yes, mature business decisions here


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:10:08
content:
  sort of alright? I haven't checked it much, but I know in the beginning of the whole EAC thing, their servers needed a lot of help. I know most of the VRC mod makers now are over there after MelonLoader's creator joined in and after realizing MelonLoader doesn't work on Neos (the latter of which I wish I was kidding).


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:13:33
content:
  well... I'm busy hanging around right now watching videos in my world, but during the one influx, things worked well. Technically speaking, content delivery servers did slow down, but not enough to stop everything entirely. Support wise, the team went into full swing as the welcome world had 100+ users for most of the time. Community people spun up headless servers to aid in people checking things out and requiring further help.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 07:17:35
content:
  The whole "why didn't people leave VRC and go to X" topic is... complicated. There are many factors involved with it. Friend groups possibly splitting, comfort in prior usability, inability to transfer content and even the lack of it in other systems by comparison. That's all before the usual topics brought up, such as Neos's UI concerns, performance concerns, and so fourth.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 09:11:48
edit_date: 2022-10-28 09:12:04
content:
  It isn't far fetched to have a currency become separate. Some countries do drop their own currency and borrow another's. 

  NCR in particular hasn't been well maintained as the native currency either, such as manual in and out transfers and being almost useless inside Neos.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 09:30:15
content:
  Not really that. The community wasn't really affected and it also wasn't looking for arguments. It was the mentality of some of these crypto bros who bought a lot of NCR to pump the price up and make people buy NCR at ATH with FOMO so these few could sell it for a huge profit. The plan worked out really well when Karel started the buy backs, so these few didn't just grab money from those affected by FOMO, they could also take a huge amount from money that was supposed to finance Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 09:32:57
content:
  not to mention, most of the community had NCR via the patreon... so, if anything, people who had large amounts internally were also annoyed by the values being played with.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 09:40:50
edit_date: 2022-10-28 15:26:38
content:
  At least one thing for sure, this was NOT an exit scam. The buy backs have reason, it had been an exit if those didn't happen


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 09:44:37
content:
  The minting was supposed to go slow and steady so the value of NCR continually goes up. However this event of Facebook going Meta made NCR bubble up quickly and pop


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:31:53
content:
  Sure. This happened really fast but what's not being said: Longtime Neos users and mods were active on social media promoting it during this time. Then very early on Neos team started taking a public anticrypto stance (probably to get back at Karel while not caring who they hurt in the crossfire). Investors weren't as clueless as people seem to think and they knew to pull out at every opportunity they could.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:32:47
edit_date: 2022-10-28 19:44:52
content:
  We can't pretend this was just "pump and dump as funds seek metaverse exposure" or "oh crypto is just volatile like that"


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:35:11
content:
  NCR suffering worse than rival tokens in the space is an engineered outcome. Whether it was carefully planned or the result of scatterbrain devs without forethought of who they were hurting, is not so clear.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:37:25
edit_date: 2022-10-28 19:38:31
content:
  I want to assume the latter but abit of both. They seemed kind of detacted from things going on around them in a deeper respect.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:38:19
edit_date: 2022-10-28 21:58:42
content:
  I think there was a lack of business leadership in their circle so they just took to pleasing the opinions of their most devoted suckups


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:43:47
content:
  Neos has a native currency for its users. Its users already have a ton of it. Its freely exchangable between them too for no fee.

  I'd ask whos fault is it NCR hasn't had feature improvements? Whatever your answer is, it's not the fault of NCR or its users.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:52:06
content:
  I'm sure too. It was just another illiquid coin to them. I guess if you compare it to other tokens in the space though, it was meddled with too much by non-market factors and still its under the duress of uncertain devs and us not knowing what they plan


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 19:53:50
content:
  It could have a store, for one. Other ideas exist and they open up whole other arguments. I've seen it talked about in the future being used to rent space in a company ran hub world


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 20:14:16
content:
  The goal to ending ICO early was to allow for easier trading of NCR, which was actually a bad idea for something that was bubbled up that much


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 22:48:53
content:
  its weird to complain about big players moving the price and then say its good to keep it only on uni because... "reasons"


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 22:54:25
edit_date: 2022-10-29 07:01:12
content:
  thats been most of the discourse about this though. People who have no experience in these things, never seen a market in their life until now, just spouting whatever (motivated) nonsense they can


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:04:28
content:
  except the part where the situation was even earlier, when Valve said "No crypto on our platform." It had Neos temporarily removed for 2 weeks while it was disputed. So you can either keep on a popular distribution platform, which was the only way to get Neos at the time, or kiss that relationship goodbye. The hyperinflation of the currency only exacerbated things further in relation to the crypto involvement.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:05:15
content:
  and no, you can't use the "download it from the website" argument because guess what became a thing after a particular event?


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:07:22
content:
  and as for a market, you first need consumers, and right now, the consumers of a particularly large market (*cough cough* VRC *cough*) have also made their voices clear about their desire of crypto involvement (I.E. None). Yes, the whole "but it uses less power" thing is now and around, but the damages are already done.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:08:16
content:
  heck, the creators made their voices even louder during a certain announcement with VRC and crypto relations. That made the discord "very popular" for a decent while


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:12:43
content:
  If the narrative was changed, such that more people actually joined Neos and contributed by either establishing their own market or creating content, I think the tune would be very different. However, this never happened. The amount of people who did come into the platform from the wave of NCR supporters (until they weren't) was so small, it barely made a dent in the user count.

  Meanwhile, despite the uphill battle, the EAC drama resulted in a large spike that lasted a decent while. Crypto had zero involvement with that; if anything, it challenged users further because of their desire to not be involved. No system updates nearing a full year (the security one in January withstanding), and that was accomplished.


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:15:23
content:
  People told me froox can't do updates else he will lose the ownership of the code so a resolution need to be found first before any update


type: message
date: 2022-10-28 23:32:16
content:
  I mean, he could lose new code I guess? But coding being the reason he loses the code doesnt make much sense


type: message
date: 2022-10-29 00:42:44
content:
  They do not want to put any more things into Neos before the dispute is being solved, even though they are still working with the code base and improving it


type: message
date: 2022-10-29 02:38:34
content:
  Also, speaking of Security, seems openSSL is at it again with another critical security exploit. Again.


type: message
date: 2022-10-29 03:18:16
content:
  and now that I'm home looking things over, looks like Neos doesn't seem to have the OpenSSL library anywhere.


type: message
date: 2022-10-29 04:26:37
content:
  Chillin, pretty stable state with a few sometimes annoying bugs. Populations are usually best on weekends


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 02:50:15
content:
  uh... considering that the two owners can't even figure out how to handle the current situation, I wouldn't even be able to humble with a contact to inquire if I had the desire to.


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 02:55:42
content:
  ....maybe selling his share and baling, and letting it be someone else's issue? That'd honestly be pretty reasonable and would be nice for them to have something to retire on.


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 02:58:32
content:
  The platform is not for sale, for that you'd need it to be publicly traded or to speak to the owners. hello@neos.com


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 20:58:18
edit_date: 2022-10-30 20:58:40
content:
  It doesn't matter anymore anyway most people that currently play and have been playing it will play it always there doesnt need to be new updates added or new people playing it for the others they have everything they need already in it


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 21:02:45
content:
  Like the things you can do in it are already enough for the people that play it and when they need something they add it via mods simple


type: message
date: 2022-10-30 21:05:49
content:
  But people can update the YouTube file themselves too to fix the YouTube not working because of the outdated YouTube exe


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 01:55:58
content:
  no, but these are not the halls where positivity is common. Most discussions are regarding a platform's future, but rarely with experience of having seen what is happening in it.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:13:18
content:
  But you can take that to advantage since only requires the store to be setup which can be build outside Neos and then you but avatars and such on it and then copy paste it in game and it spawns out the item or avatar all of this can be done already without froox needing to update the game and then NCR could be used a lot


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:14:24
content:
  Since the outside store would use NCR then and with the targeted advertising a lot of people might play Neos it might not be the same people that wanted a different future for Neos but it is something


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:15:53
edit_date: 2022-10-31 22:47:12
content:
  The advertising can be done outside Neos too advertising it as what it is atm which is furry dating sim it will attract people for that since Neos doesn't need additional code for this path


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:17:31
content:
  what about the non-furries in Neos?  I've seen plenty of snapshots by other users and despite the prominence in being discussed, there are quite a large number of users who are something else.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:20:10
content:
  not to mention... if anything, that just shows Neos's functions to encompass entire systems within itself.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:20:26
content:
  Like think of it as what is currently possible in Neos as it is and what it is used for in the current state


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 02:22:15
content:
  Rebranding and advertising Neos for what it is used most commonly and then having a store you buy things from with NCR all without Neos requiring any updates is the best solution


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 03:07:29
edit_date: 2022-10-31 03:59:23
content:
  Hi Alex, I use Neos to do ground breaking research in the area of head and neck surgery, opthalmology, exposure therapy, empathy Training, patient education etc. 

  Your exposure to neos features does not guarantee the entire feature set it provides. I'd encourage you to explore and learn before you judge and make blanket statements like this.

  Right now I'm preparing to give a presentation at an event in Sydney in November on virtual surgical planning techniques available in stuff I've built in neos. While simultaneously assisting another user with measuring a vestibular occular reflex and in about an hour I have a meeting about patient education in the area of mandible surgical reconstruction where I have a model of the hospital used and all the rooms and clinics a patient will need to go to.

  But you're fine to just say that other uses aren't possible right now.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 05:55:16
content:
  No i work with medical professionals. Sometimes i have no idea what they are talking about but eventually all medical issues are collapsed into stuff that I can do in Neos :D


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 09:58:00
content:
  This is 1 usecase again and without updates it can't be advertised as such to be a medical research tool


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 10:02:16
content:
  But NCR needs to have a use without Neos requiring updates with advertising Neos differently and then building a outside Neos store where you pay with NCR and then people copy paste the item in game it can work without needing a update


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 10:21:45
edit_date: 2022-10-31 14:58:09
content:
  1,..? i listed about 7, and we're using it without updates. We have a paper being published imminently and several research grant applications submitted. 

  While updates would help us extremely they aren't strictly required.  In a lot of cases a slower update rate is actually beneficial as it means less churn in our experiments and validating the ethics and data validity of them. We usually have to pin our experiment PCs to versions so they explicitly don't get updates.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 10:27:45
content:
  Yeah but how will that help NCR getting a use? You need many people for that but there aren't many doctors using Neos


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 10:54:02
content:
  The function of NCR was to bridge commerce in such a way that the value of an item or service was based on an agreed upon system of value. This was L$'s purpose and function, and is why we don't see 5 price tags on many items; you just have the one (the currency of the platform) and locally already understand the value of it.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 10:57:13
content:
  in a sense, Neos already HAS the basic foundation to allow such commerce to naturally occur. If you wanted and were able to find someone else who would accept the current payment, you could commission someone and pay via NCR right now. Goods with sellers would have to be one to one, but technically speaking, the option is there. And that's just commerce.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 11:07:17
content:
  I can vouch for this; I've had... at least 3 commissions done with Neos in mind. NCR was not accepted.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:14:56
content:
  I had traded some NCR for some items a while back when I was certain value was going up. But now that the run is over, its pointless. I don't ever see myself using NCR again, too unreliable, too complicated to withdraw money.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:17:30
content:
  I imagine it's much lower now, but I still have to double convert to get to cash and im still going to pay fees. While I haven't checked myself, Im sure I can still slip by cheaper and more conveniently through something like paypal


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:19:19
edit_date: 2022-10-31 14:19:36
content:
  I just dont see the reason to take unstable currency, to convert it into stable (meanwhile value fluctuating) when I can just take the stable straight up


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:19:49
content:
  i don't do step 7 and 8 and step 1 tot 3 i have already done , other steps are just 1 minute to execute


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:21:24
edit_date: 2022-10-31 14:21:55
content:
  i just considered buying NCR to sell it with profit , so far  it seemed like the wrong bet , but someone here few messages back told me my face would melt later on , not sure what that means but i'll hold on to my ncr anyway🫠


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:22:30
content:
  I've literally done a metamask swap for NCR through Uniswap and moved it into NEOS and it only took 24hrs to get it into the Engine.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:23:36
content:
  It was really easy, it would be faster if the NEOS team didnt manually distribute the NCR token transactions himself.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 14:31:38
edit_date: 2022-10-31 14:31:45
content:
  It's not even just gas fees tho, its also the constant value changing. You can easily loose tens or hundreds in minutes


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:21:28
content:
  the big advantage of all ingame currencies, no mather what, is small payments that take less time then actual money transfers


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:22:26
content:
  as in, instant transfer inside the game without actual involving services that take 5% for a transfer


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:22:41
edit_date: 2022-10-31 15:23:02
content:
  let's see how this will evolve.    few countries want to re establisch some kind of gold standard and get rid of the usd as world standard currency , gold (paper) is manupulated quite a bit and real gold is moving from the west to china , russia etc...  if a new gold standard arises price of gold might go volatile (if you express it in dollar and other fiat)


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:23:58
content:
  thats... way out of scope of an ingame currency. Crypto currencies crash similar to markets, because of how people need to take out money to pay for their daily lifes


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:24:36
content:
  not saying it would happen but gold could go from 1600 to 5000$ over night when a large enough group would consider to reinstall the gold standard


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:28:55
content:
  perhaps, perhaps not. In general, crypto currencies have the ONE advantage to guarantie being limited and not being nilly vanilly being created. They have a lot of disadvantages too.. and thats only compared to ingame currencies


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 15:29:45
content:
  Gold is a completly different thing. And alex is right. Gold isn't as much a "value" as it is a messure of economy


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 16:21:35
content:
  The price of gold can drop or rise quickly as well, however that is less probable. The amount of gold for bread however can change more probable, if bread becomes rare, then a higher amount of gold might be needed to buy it


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 16:22:50
content:
  gold has value, as it is rare and there is demand (mostly because people desire to own gold, not because they really need it)


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 16:23:23
edit_date: 2022-10-31 16:24:19
content:
  Yes, the demand of gold is pretty constant, so is the supply. In case of market crashes and high essential prices, gold rises. In times of good markets and low essential prices gold falls. In terms of effective relation gold still keeps having similar values versus essentials. Short time changes don't make this invalid. Also, while gold can cost half or double vs essentials or specific essentials can change its price, overall gold is used as long term messure of economy still.


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 16:26:19
content:
  The rule of tumb is that you will never go broke with gold, but you will also never get rich from it. Imho


type: message
date: 2022-10-31 17:09:56
edit_date: 2022-10-31 17:10:18
content:
  I mean, can and should... the one having control over the unlimited nature is the one this all depends on. You can keep track of it, yes, but if its unlimited for everyone there is no inherent worth. The worth is its limited nature or what the unlimited nature is backed by (stable coin... fiat).

  The question of what something is worth is always about availability and demand.

  And for NCR it is the "oh yea, its a limited amount. We give everyone that sponsors us some of this coins that are inherently worthless but limited. If this project succedes you can show how much you supported that project. And if its simple to pay ingame with it, it will be worth whatever this convenience is worth to people"


type: message
date: 2022-11-02 17:13:09
edit_date: 2022-11-02 20:54:13
content:
  Very much so. I was busy testing streaming an Android phone into Neos last night.
  https://twitter.com/FlameSoulis/status/1587675940913614849


type: message
date: 2022-11-02 17:22:48
content:
  Not sure if the issue is resolved between CTO and Karel. Also not sure why the is price depreciating if the project is still alive? I brought a lot of NCR but my investment is 98% down. I thought the project is dead


type: message
date: 2022-11-02 17:26:52
content:
  NCR's value doesn't directly correlate with the project's internal functions or status. There are hundreds of users on daily. If you view only from a portfolio of a currency, you don't get the correct narrative.


type: message
date: 2022-11-02 17:37:12
edit_date: 2022-11-02 18:40:26
content:
  I'm not aware of a roadmap for NCR, as that'd be either mentioned within the whitepaper itself or via updates from Karel. However, once again, if you only pay attention to NCR, then you aren't paying attention to Neos. The two are related, in that NCR is Neos's currency at this time, but NCR cannot work without Neos, not the other way around.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 19:59:32
edit_date: 2022-11-04 02:23:59
content:
  However, as far as I understand, Neos is not being developed any further at the moment because the two parties are not in agreement. The users create based on what is possible with the current version.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 20:18:29
edit_date: 2022-11-03 20:23:44
content:
  That said, the co-owner and lead programmer is online every day in neos. Its not too much of a stretch to think thats not purly to meet people. Also you can see when the version doesn't match with your version of someone online. So its probably not so much "stop of development" as it is "stop to release versions to public"


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 20:26:17
content:
  That and if I'm not mistaken, but the community has been busy with plug-in development for Neos still. Those would also show up as separate versions, though modifications for the client still would work natively.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 21:20:08
content:
  Yes, but i just guess that the main developer having a different version, doesn't mean that they are using player-made plugin instead of their own code


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 23:31:03
content:
  Ah ok that sounds interesting and leaves many questions unanswered. Maybe they want to surprise you with a new version for Christmas 😂.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 23:31:46
edit_date: 2022-11-03 23:32:24
content:
  I hope so ;) What questions? If you have a lot of people in your friendlist you will see that some of them have different versions. In most cases this will mean they are running plugins.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 23:36:02
content:
  I'd rather not list the questions. Otherwise, rumors can arise from these questions and maybe some people will lose money again.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 23:37:22
content:
  I don't think this is an issue at this point anymore and there are probably no answers i can give that would change the market, because all of that was already talked about many times before.


type: message
date: 2022-11-03 23:44:03
content:
  I hope they appreciate the community. Such a loyal community is not easy to build and is a sign that products like Neos have a high potential and can inspire people.


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 01:53:50
content:
  I mean, when I spoke to Froox and the crew, they seemed interested in what was going on. Heck, helped me figure out what I was doing wrong with my one project


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 04:28:30
content:
  Well, lets face it, it was the main reason everything went down. Its not the fault of NCR or directly the cause, but the catalyst. So there is resentment.


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 19:20:42
content:
  hmm... what CPU? I previously had a 7700k, and that held my 2080 back. In addition, I think I still have the FSR2.0 mod installed and set to a high radius with render masking, which also gives a sizable bump


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 19:35:37
content:
  that should be fine... OH, uh... did you make sure to disable Steam's motion smoothing? Sounds like the headset is locked at 90hz and is only doing 45fps because of frame generation via motion smoothing


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 19:36:33
content:
  Also, in the app's menu on SteamVR, there's an option to adjust another setting down at the bottom. I can't remember the name, but it heavily impact's Neos's performance above all others. It has to do with priority or something


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 19:50:29
edit_date: 2022-11-04 19:50:44
content:
  It's a vive pro 2 coming with it's own compositor which seems to lock frame rates to multiples. No motion smoothing


type: message
date: 2022-11-04 20:30:32
content:
  hmm.... no idea then. There is the one setting that handles throttling, but again, I can't remember what its called


type: message
date: 2022-11-05 21:34:33
edit_date: 2022-11-05 21:35:09
content:
  But then many decide what is right and what is wrong. In today's platforms, dictatorship rules. Would you like to play in a dictatorial metaverse?


type: message
date: 2022-11-05 22:24:11
content:
  I'm all for banning people who cause trouble, but as brought up, if people cause issues on somewhere else, they will get banned. If you form a central ban list, you basically repeat the same thing, crypto or otherwise. In essense, if people claim 'crypto is decentralized', then why use a centralized, enforced ban list that you also have no say over


type: message
date: 2022-11-05 22:25:43
content:
  the best thing I can think of is not really a list, but rather lists. pural. Multiple groups stored in a decntralized manor that allows you to pick and choose the lists you wish to subscribe to. This means people can defaultly opt into the primary, governed list, but also decide not to, with the giant caution being "at your own risk and without support"


type: message
date: 2022-11-05 22:26:49
content:
  of course, that's just my take. I just see irony in seeing 'crypto prevents bans' to 'crypto enforces bans' and both basically being at eachother in forming nonsense


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 00:28:22
content:
  Welcome hex, if you're looking for support regarding Neos, may I recommend checking out the Neos Discord at https://discord.gg/neosvr


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 01:13:48
edit_date: 2022-11-06 01:20:58
content:
  Theres good and bad for using decentralized platforms, and some already exist. Kinda depends on application


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 02:32:11
content:
  Yeah this is difficult to make like Neos also got rules like no gambling and such so it will never be truly decentralized


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 02:36:59
edit_date: 2022-11-06 10:32:45
content:
  Neos, as it is currently, is already far more decentral then any other platform i ever used. Its not so much that there is some amazing system behind it, its the opposite. The ones in charge of a world is formost the server owner... if that server is connected to the neos network, it has (as a public world) to adhere to the rules of the neos moderators. Two different instances of ban-lists that could exist for a different layer. If someone would been banned from the neos network, he still could use neos, just not connect its world to that particular network. The listing server for public worlds.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 02:39:10
content:
  Yeah there is a mod for it altho without the asset variant system unfortunately that hasn't been able to be in the mod


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 03:16:18
content:
  I can see a combination with the advantages of both. A centralized platform like neos, with its set of rules to follow, and the ability to connect directly to each other and to other closed networks by choise/ingame link


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 03:18:07
content:
  Would remove the need for the public network to allow "close to everything" and only allow what is deamed publicly safe (like not harmful for children) while also giving the option of opt-in groups that, for example, verify age or affilliation to a company/....


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 03:18:54
content:
  For a different kind of access that includes content that is not publicly available, like prioritary workspaces


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:11:43
content:
  Could poke Phillip if you want his old federated chain. Apperently Somnium is still using it, despite the alliance going down


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:18:01
content:
  honestly, that's something I've come to see as a rather large flaw in most of these "web3" projects that showstops them in their own tracks


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:18:59
content:
  like, my project that lets me stream the SteamDeck directly into Neos: it's based on an NGINX relay internally within my network. If I DCed from the Internet, this would still function. Same goes for my smart home center, administration systems, etc.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:23:45
content:
  That's what puts Neos in a weird spot: it functions like said service, where you can host locally ala LAN and headless, BUT is proposed to be reliant on a chain... a central one, at that.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:25:33
content:
  I dunno. The irony with this is that the paradigm of being able to run local services is basically being tossed out the window.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 05:39:45
content:
  and because I am doing the logging in of work, just a reminder for the people of the US, that it's going to be the conclusion of Daylight savings day. If your clock is not intelligent, be sure to roll it back an hour. You're welcome.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 06:05:23
content:
  Users who do a lot of positive and productive things for a metaverse should be rewarded financially and also have voting rights over the rights of the respective metaverse. If a user spends four years of his life in the metaverse, he should also be able to participate and have a say. Maybe there is a stone age metaverse. Rule also our laws are actually fictitious and exist only because we believe in it.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 06:07:01
content:
  NEOS is still young and can do everything better than the other crypto scam projects. 
  It has the community to do it better.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 11:51:47
edit_date: 2022-11-06 22:19:02
content:
  Not a chain though. More like decentralization through separate centralized and managed services that work together in a Fediverse. Then you can choose your services you trust or even run your own and you're still able to connect to people who are using other services


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 21:22:11
edit_date: 2022-11-06 21:22:34
content:
  As a software developer: please?

  Don't tease me with something I've long wanted but can never have.


type: message
date: 2022-11-06 21:26:17
content:
  Even if I can't have that, can we at least get rid of daylight savings? Stupidest thing that's ever existed.


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:09:06
content:
  Can we just please stop changing anything in that system, as each change, no matter what it is, makes the code larger, as it has to support more exceptions


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:13:38
edit_date: 2022-11-07 02:14:07
content:
  not supporting daylight saving would actually make the code shorter if anything... its a case less to watch out for. But realisticly speaking it doesn't change anything, because this is only a change one country does.


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:18:16
content:
  it'd actually have to be larger to support both, daylight savings for the past, and no daylight savings for the future and it'd also have to check the date


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:18:44
content:
  Every change to that system, even changing back, just makes the timezone database larger and more complex


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:23:20
content:
  Half ot he programmers life is to make code longer. The only half is cutting all that crap out you have written yourself and shorten it again. Making a single entry in a database is nothing compared to the hundrets of daily ideas that may or may never get used you will find in the code.


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:35:07
edit_date: 2022-11-07 02:37:34
content:
  Oh it can almost always be shorter depending how insane you are and how okay with 26 one letter variables you are as well as everything being an unreadable mess and all in one line etc etc


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:44:07
content:
  Its a total missunderstanding of programming that another featur means "just adding more lines of code". Its often the case that you have something that happens once, then its 20 lines, it happens twice, its 38 lines, it happen a third time in a different way you refactor and add it to a total of 45 lines and at that point you realize you need to use this way more often. So you spend time, make it more compact, make it use a list and suddenly its 18 lines, just including any possible case that could happen...


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:45:54
content:
  Even though programming often is about actually removing then adding code. It is not the case with time zone changes, as those only add complexity to the system.


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 02:48:27
edit_date: 2022-11-07 02:48:54
content:
  Yes, you are right. Time zones are a menece and so are summer/winter time or changes of time, expecially because you often "go back in time" and suddenly things look stupid when they happend already "in the future" from your current point of view. But removing that can only be a good thing, long term.


type: message
date: 2022-11-07 22:34:30
content:
  You know, with everyone joining, I'm always surprised to see the member numbers of this group being relatively low, but I digress


type: message
date: 2022-11-08 16:43:38
edit_date: 2022-11-08 20:35:04
content:
  protest? hahahahaah you really dont get it. its like paying the hole car upfront when you're getting a divorce and dont know if you're going to keep that car


type: message
date: 2022-11-08 19:10:38
content:
  No updates being released until the dispute is resolved, so that any work that has been done since last year is not part of the resolution


type: message
date: 2022-11-10 05:12:51
content:
  somehow thought I was the operator of this telegram which, uh... no. When I brought that to light, they insisted I should let them know about any projects I'm working on for web3 integration...


type: message
date: 2022-11-10 05:14:57
content:
  well, bot or not. Joining a random channel with an unrelated profile and new creation date just to use its user list to send offeres to other websites or services... i just call bot


type: message
date: 2022-11-10 10:13:42
content:
  Not obvious to me really, I don't see what they could do about it, except they were telegram wide moderators


type: message
date: 2022-11-10 11:45:05
edit_date: 2022-11-10 11:46:44
content:
  because, removing from this group doesn't help, the userlist has been scraped already. And I've seen with lots of these bots, when they message me, we don't share any common groups. So my guess is, they join here, scrape userlist and use that with other accounts to message people. That's why I am not hesitant to block and report for spam anyone who messages me a simple hello and I don't see any connections to why they would know me


type: message
date: 2022-11-12 07:22:16
content:
  yup, there it is. What's weird is if you go to discover apps, when signed into the hub, Neos is not listed by default. Heck, even in the A-Z in the side section, Neos isn't even listed in Virtual Worlds, while again a dead platform is and VRC


type: message
date: 2022-11-12 07:23:57
content:
  yeah... wow. Neos is only listed if you are NOT signed in. If you are, then it never appears in their app discovery


type: message
date: 2022-11-16 20:21:07
content:
  hey guys, i'm coming from germany and i'm having problems with neosvr, i'm constantly having problems when i join my friends, does anyone have any idea what the problem could be? (my english is not good sorry)


type: message
date: 2022-11-16 20:30:30
content:
  When joining, do you see any messages regarding "LNL Relay"? If so, it might be a network related issue.


type: message
date: 2022-11-16 20:36:12
content:
  when I come in I either don't hear anything or they don't see me anymore, although I see them, the fps seem to be quite normal and my avatar takes forever to upload....


type: message
date: 2022-11-16 20:36:13
content:
  Yeah, sounds like it is a fairly technical issue. I suggest talking to the helper team in Discord for assistance, since they'd have a better idea to the strange behavior.


type: message
date: 2022-11-16 20:37:20
content:
  yeah.... sounds like you are getting messages, but not being able to send out. I've only had that happen when my ISP is having issues. That one would definitely warrant the help team's aid.


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 01:20:09
content:
  news to me, but still enough time to work out the final kinks in some designs I have in mind either way


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 11:05:16
content:
  That's a rumor and 90% of rumors are false and silly. Stick to official channels and the next time you hear one repeat that message along. Rumors are rude, false and damage the community. If the two month date existed or was true we'd announce it.


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 11:39:00
edit_date: 2022-11-27 22:57:55
content:
  Hey everybody, I’ve made my first visit of Neos in VR yesterday… but most worlds were empty. I’m looking for a guide who could show me the best place … who will go there these days?


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 11:48:29
content:
  Which is also a rumor, you have no facts Alex.

  Stick to official sources.

  Here's a new rumor: the new neos is full dive, that's why its taken so long.

  See how easy it is to make one?


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 14:49:26
content:
  There's a difference between a confirmed date and just some wish that one developer hopes the issues might have been resolved. Let's stick to what has been confirmed


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 15:31:45
edit_date: 2022-11-18 15:53:40
content:
  To elaborate on the responses, most people tend to hang out in their home worlds, which are private by default. You can think of it like people inviting eachother to their residences to hang out, where the locations are still private. Sometimes people will spin up public locations, which then tend to act as parks that people visit and hang out.
  So, usually it also depends on the time of day when the people who prefer to visit a park come on


type: message
date: 2022-11-18 16:23:42
edit_date: 2022-11-18 17:29:40
content:
  Ok Thanks for your answer ! 

  Just to introduce myself I’m directing a documentary on Metaverse and Web3 and I discovered Neos few month ago. 

  I’m really impressed by the work of Tomas and Karel. What they have done together is absolutely amazing. I’m really sad to see those two genius in a middle of a conflict. I really hope that they will find a way to solve their issue. To not waste all these years and these efforts. To build a company is a complex and subtle alchemy. To make it grow and survive during a crisis is a real challenge. I send them all my thought and my blessings to pass thru this conflict. 
  Concerning my movie I would be really interrested if some of you guys would agree to make me discover your world and the Neos you like. Please DM me.


type: message
date: 2022-11-20 15:02:37
content:
  Hi!
  I'm Simone (4x author/organizer of 1st Hospitality event in the metaverse). 
  Nice to meet you?
  Launching a new metaverse series and looking for experts. 
  Interested in discussing it? 
  More info: https://www.hospitalitynet.org/polybius/ 
  Audience reach: https://www.hospitalitynet.org/mediakit/analytics.html


type: message
date: 2022-11-22 02:14:23
edit_date: 2022-11-22 02:28:10
content:
  Karel, Did ProbablePrime distance himself from your Smart Contract Deposit Mechanism? He's denying he ever had access to approve deposits.


type: message
date: 2022-11-22 03:17:13
content:
  You can prove this with multiple searches through many of our communication sources where I clearly state this


type: message
date: 2022-11-24 23:34:56
content:
  Karel @malooniac any plans or roadmaps or updates planned for the website that you can share with us or anything in the immediate future ?

  also providing the press kit on the main website might help with some content being published on other sites by creators using the old logo and such might be solved by providing the new one on a page of the main site or in the footer 

  also providing alt attributes for the images on the website may improve website visibility through SEO as 73 images have no alt attributes, and I'm a bit confused why no robots.txt file is being used.


type: message
date: 2022-11-26 23:11:50
content:
  The verify account button isn't their fault entirely it's a mix of theirs and ours. Please stop giving them grief for it. It's mostly a communication issue. Which is natural right now.


type: message
date: 2022-11-27 01:36:34
content:
  I mean... doesn't the verification link also have a GET parameter? Lazy solution, but just check if you have a specific Get param, and verify if you should skow the verify page that way?


type: message
date: 2022-11-28 09:04:01
content:
  My comment was a joke about missing robot.txt being important when the actual project might be dead. What's embarrassing is that the founders haven't solved this already


type: message
date: 2022-11-28 21:23:01
content:
  Froox's announcements are in the discords announcements channel once again you don't need to ask just go read them


type: message
date: 2022-11-28 21:32:09
edit_date: 2022-11-28 22:24:29
content:
  I know this doesn't make much sense for the new ones or mostly uninvolved onces, but because of the way the two "sides" are at odds with each other, THIS channel is under the CEO's control (karel) and the discord under the main dev's control (froox)


type: message
date: 2022-11-29 10:13:51
edit_date: 2022-11-29 12:45:01
content:
  I have a feeling founders are willing to let Neos die rather than budge from their demands even a bit


type: message
date: 2022-11-29 11:07:37
edit_date: 2022-11-29 11:39:27
content:
  Can’t really share more info yet but a small yet important piece of it is staking since that has been already announced


type: message
date: 2022-11-29 14:36:24
content:
  Might be hard to resolve a conflict if the other party is sticking to its initial demands. Would be helpful to hear what the both parties current offers are on the table


type: message
date: 2022-11-29 14:38:23
content:
  If Froox still wants Karel out and NCR as 3rd party only, we might not see official code updates to Neos ever again


type: message
date: 2022-11-29 15:00:57
content:
  Hi, I was told this is the best place for me to ask NCR related questions. 

  So I cashed out all of my NCR about a week ago now and it’s come out of my Neos account but it’s no where to be seen in my MetaMask. Just wondering if maybe the translation hasn’t been confirmed or something. As I made sure all of the addresses were correct when withdrawing


