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Are the legal issues settled yet?

What legal issues?

Then we know updates are near when it's settled

you can read pinned messages here or the discord's announcement section for updates. If there are no new updates here or there then please don't say "but there's no up to date information" The most up to date information is in those locations.

So its not near settled then yet?

The latest information is available in those locations. Thank you.

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Hmm.... food for thought: back with the older platform I was on, they formed a partnership with Digital Ocean to provide easier to start up servers for users to have their own worlds, much like pre-configured servers for webhosting and gaming.
So, given that the only way to access the headless server software is currently via Steam with a key provided from the Patreon, have there been thoughts that, in the future, possible similar partnerships could be established?

Hi guys, anybody from Vienna here?

Not I

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A few docker containers do exist for spinning up headless servers but they do require a little bit of setup like any headless might for what neos account, world, permissions, and anything else in the headless config file. They also do require you have the beta key for it to be able to do anything. The main missing part there I would be a user friendly front end to doing that config bit

Somehow I remember some web UI projects regarding that front, but heck if I can remember where I saw them.
But yeah, I figured it'd also be a bit of an odd situation, given that headless servers are more optional, given that the client can already do everything thanks to the peer to peer systems.

Possibly this https://github.com/glitchfur/NeosVR-Headless-WebUI

The main part making that difficult or any other hosting service difficult is actually communicating with the headless reliably

that and securely

for me, headless servers help solve issues where people's connections are good enough to join, but not to host (thank you, modern ISPs). Additionally, persistence is also pretty nice, though it does lead to 'who left the dev tools everywhere' arguments like it's a college dorm.

that and I could see some neat utility of 'mini' headless clients. Like if it had access the audio devices, things like controlling virtual assistances (like GAssistant) could be made more doable.

Heck, hook up a 360 webcam, use it to create a streamable skybox, and put the mini server outside with some solar power to create a virtual observatory. Sure, you 'could' stream it back to a bigger server, but there's an extra wow factor in that the tiny unit is doing all the work.

even without having a separate system to host, a separate headless process is isolated from the user crashing or lagging on its main thread which is pretty useful

Hi there!

How can I contact to a right person to send an offer?

For what

Ncr?

is there new 2023 roadmap soon?

I think the only way any kind of roadmap can exist is after all the current issues are resolved. It's like planning a roadtrip when the van is still impounded.

let us just wait another year with no news just to make sure the emotions are down and the dev team is ready for cooperation

eh.... I don't think that's going to be a thing....

if it takes another year, pretty sure that's going to be game over

newer tech could render Neos in a weird limbo state, since VR keeps moving forward

Believe me, stuff is happening.

alpha?

Ahh we're speaking in greek alphabets now

It's still sadly ironic that most people seem to keep speculating on the system... despite never once diving in themselves.
Oh well, more virtual flat screen TVs for me.

(though, right now, it's more like fiddling with getting a 3D print just right for eye tracking)

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Hi guys. Who can I contact for partnerships?

hello@neos.com

for real?

My friends sent to hello@neos.com but no one returns in 2021-2022, Did neos come back to return about commercial emails?

I don't know we're sorry commercial emails go there.

That's the only option

yes

How can I contact to Karel? It says that she was too long online!

stop playing during your bot

?

This “partnership proposal” sounds like a great missed opportunity.

a great missed opportunity?

We get many such proposals and requests to talk a day, most of them make zero sense.

A very small fraction

you don't like yourself if talk about small fraction

i'm sorry very small fraction

Karel does a portion of the patreon still being put forward to push the mint ? as no updates have been given on that front as in how far in the batches are we or no update ?

I quite like this confidence of Karel. My mentor was like this when he was younger, he was smarter than elon musk and forced himself to read more than 2.5 hours a day for a long time

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January was with NCR as well

Also, I think you mean portion of the mint is going into Patreon rewards. What you said sounded like money from the Patreon was going to minting

I assumed patreon was being used for development purposes only. Is that not the case?

Patreon is used to pay for the servers that host your content and make neos work plus other operational costs such as email, domain names etc.

It does not fund development though.

I see

i believe all funds through that patreon are handed by karel..
one of the incentives is ncr, through minting

That isn't directly what they asked. When this question comes up its important to state that while it doesn't currently fund development it does fund a lot of the stuff that is needed to keep Neos operational.

Not going to lie, I hate the crypto part of it, and it would be a significant reason to drop patreon.

Understood, be careful about sharing that opinion here though.

What ever

I understand, our discord is more friendly in that regard. I don't control the rules here though so I am informing you of the status quo.

From what I understand, Patreon doesn't fund NCR, even if you get NCR as a reward

Patron is to get storage

I mean, at this point, that's the only use it has. Given the numbers, where the number of users for it is high but the income for it is still the same, it sounds like mostly everyone is just getting the $1 tier because 5GB cloud storage is the true winner.

You mean patreon would be more comfortable for you to not give ncr rewards, right?

This was discussed in the past: you can opt out of the rewards. Even then, unless you want the headless server, the lower tiers do not give NCR.

That being said, you 'should' take it anyway, since you can just... get more storage space.

If you take ncr with patreon its just an ingame currency

Technically it completly doesn't mather to you that this is somehow tradeable anywhere else

because the storage space price doesn't even take that into account

you CAN obviously transfer ncr out or in, but if you are not interested in that, its a pure ingame currency to you

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i only know a few who need more then 5gb (although that includes me recently)

Hello

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So whats the story now. What happen to the 2 friends fighting. So who has the management and all

Any updates

Hey, you can read pinned messages here or the discord's announcement section for updates. If there are no new updates here or there then please don't say "but there's no up to date information" The most up to date information is in those locations.

just here to ask the crypto people some questions if you all still look at this chat. what would you want in a Neos plugin if possible for crypto features as currently i'm playing around with some ideas https://imgur.com/gyMQNDl with a etherscan and a opensea node

Proper confidentiality for API keys and protection of LogiX nodes, so they cannot be invoked by other players but yourself

the nodes currently im doing have keys in them *shrug* though will have a fallback to use own api keys might store them in field as ***** but need to figure that out

but that request is not something for a plugin to achieve thats a issue for main game

Hmm... not really a crypto person, but I'm assuming some kind of 'permission' ID would have to exist, sort of like the websocket/http access dialog that pops up, but I'm guessing that's what the various event triggers there are for, like 'requested transaction,' 'requested outcome,' and 'transaction outcome' or whatever

but I guess it also depends on what they want in part of the outcome... like should the rate of the currency be exposed or handled as a seperate node?

Very interested to hear what people have to say... if anything at all, since most of what I've seen is people caring about value and less about function

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wah

The two you chose are quite good

Looking at the on-chain data, nft is far ahead of ft. It looks like the future is in nft, but no smart people have explored applications for nft yet. nft has yet to emerge as an application like defi.

I'm guessing it's doing some strange logix to verify that stuff, since the system by default doesn't have such API calls to my knowledge

im trying to avoid transaction stuff for now due to security related concerns

Opensea requires a api key i don't have and the ether scan is being annoying currently working on it but right now we have a working coin gecko node https://imgur.com/h6R4nim

Also less about real value. It seems that any "value" is liked, as long as it is to the moon. So even inflated price by selling NFTs to each other. As long as price goes up, even if there is no value.

Value is fictitious and relative. Value comes from the belief of a community.
What is money worth if no one believes in it?

Real money? You can pay your debts and taxes with it. No need of anyone believing in it

enough people agree that some currency has some value, if you could call that belief

Because the one who receives the money believes in the value of the money.

No, because they need that to pay their taxes. Also they have or will have debts to pay as well

Theoretically, debt can be exchanged for something of equal value. But people have currently agreed on the fiat money because this brings some advantages.
Fiat can also be replaced when something better comes along.

lovely... pronz bot... *sigh*

Gm

Every one

Hope you have a nice day $NCR

NFT, metaverse, web3.0 ...... In the last two years or so, we have seen a whole bunch of big words full of
big words flying around. Everyone is talking about these things, but no one can give a clear definition. This is not surprising. The final definition of each newly created big word depends on the experience of its life cycle, not on the arbitrariness of the big word's inventor. Because every big word is a living organism, it also needs a growth process similar to the breaking of a chrysalis or a plumage. In this process, we can choose to stand by and watch. But we can also choose to participate.

Sewage Fruitz is a collection of 2,500 upgradable NFTs created from the depths of the Ethereum Blockchain and a reward to all members of the Cryptex Finance community. A fungus, grown out of dark substances in the yard of Mushroom Man as he spreads his spores worldwide.Holding a Sewage Fruitz PFP unlocks user ability to go on quests within the Cryptex Finance ecosystem, completing tasks that will be unlocked inside the DAO. Sewage Fruitz holders can earn upgrades and badges by completing these quests. Users can burn these upgrades in the future based on their achievements and earn CTX, the Cryptex Finance protocol governance token available worldwide on Coinbase, Gemini, Huobi, and many others.

What is your opinion on this? Is it valuable?

eh...

Sounds like the worst of nft's and mining combined. But its not only energy that is wasted, but also millions of life-hours

Hi

Why am I banned in the discord server?

I didnt do anything wrong, I didnt even say anything there. I just joined and you guys banned me. :(

I'm a NEOS Pro user and I also have an Alternative account that I pay Gunter Patreon for every month.

Im one of your biggest fans, and I actively build and onboard new users.

I'm not sure what went wrong, is it because I buy / sell NFTs? I'm so confused

I'm just trying to build a business and uplift the community by bridging the gap between Unlockable Content and Amazing VR experiences.

I hope you guys understand, I'm not trying to scam anyone or mislead the public.

No idea, you could inquire about that with a moderation ticket https://moderation.neos.com/

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It’s hard to feel that other cryptocurrencies are going up, but ncr is not moving

We are already in debt 😭

Ncr needs to move

Yes!! I love neos

I'm thinking of upgrading my PC and buying a VR Headset just for neos

Hop on neos

I'm thinking of making a fortnite clone on Neos xD

As everyone that knows anything about the project: it depends all on the ceo and main programmer finally splitting up and get the project going again

sounds interesting

im more interested in the building system that would come out of it xdd

Oh! that will be a pain to do xD

first step is to learn advanced LogiX 💥

good luck heheee

I don't even know how variables work in LogiX xD

it's not tooo bad

yes, I wish there was something like LogiX but more desktop friendly

i think its fairly desktop friendly
you can ctrl click on nodes (or any other uix) to enter a ui aligned camera view

Ooo

I didn't know there was a UI aligned mode xD that will make life much easier

personally i like the benefits/horrors of fully free-form 3d logix

Best advice for doing any program in neos: dont think about it like a program

Think about it as interactable objects with a hand full of code each

no main method 😔

Ooo 👀

Small interactables that result in a gameplay

Ooo 👀

yeah.. like for variables, almost any field with a value is a "variable" that you can read from
unless it's a dynvar the concept of scope is weak
then for writing, you'll impulse to a write, or use drives

Yes, but specifically design wise. Make an object that generates rays and animation and one that sets a property called lifepoints on a parent avatar

... you now have a gun and made a simple shooter

Ooo

but still logix is very similar to lines of code, there are so many similarities even though it's all different

Raycaster is a gun and the watcher checks on hits by that raycast and reduces from property lifepoints

But both are very simple objects

hm but how do I create the life variable for every player?

autoinject field on the controller slot will add the specified slot to every user

By adding that item to every player. By player choise or "add to parent" call

Or that, but i really would leave it as object

Not add fields and values to the player

yes , that is also fine

The way that this program works now is way easier to test. You dont need hundrets if interactions. Only two objects from your inventory

Ooo

The gun and the tracker

there are several generic weapons and health systems already though so maybe you will focus on the building :p

Yes. Just an example

hm I'll probably make my own just for experience x'3

The idea is to not see it as program but a result of interactibles

Ooo got it!

So every logicx stays short. 30 commands tops

Interconnected

By logical interactions

Ooo

thanks!

Glad to help ; ☺️

Only Neos, yes. It's systems and concepts are a major leap for establishing a virtual landscape. Without any new revisions, it has continued to worked.

What I also admire is the continued releases of Mods to provide additional functionality and fixes to Neos even though Neos has not received updates in a long time.

An example was Stiefel's Animj Mod which fixes at least three bugs in the Animj importer that were needed for me to be able to import and drive the drone show for the New Year's world.

It would be nice if neos was not a physical company, but a decentralized autonomous organization, DAO.

I'd rather not. Neos isn't quite in the position to go down that route, especially with its codebase and current state. Such actions would only result in further uproar from the only people who are actually on the platform in order to pleasure those who haven't even stepped foot in it

DAO's wouldn't work, Neos needs a company to own the data, the privacy policy, the legal requirements etc, the server costs.

I've yet to see a DAO that can handle that kind of thing(please feel free to share some). But at the end of the day its always a physical person or company running the show.

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is the product is still working guys

The product has never stopped working.

good

any upcoming event ?

No, but recently we had an anniversary of no updates to the platform

sad

how would this happen?

Long story

The two owner of the company developing neos are in a clinch. Both tugging on the other end of the rope, not giving an inch "working out" a solution. So we all have to wait for the solution that obviously is for the two to split up.

well, the last update was a major bugfix hotpatch... and that was really it. So the last true major was back in November

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It’s said in the discord that neos community is a loving one. Why with such great love, the tech team not inclusive of cryptocurrency community members?

there is more than a few who are part of cryptocurrency but however, do not attempt to share their ideals with literally everyone
maybe that also makes them more difficult to find
but they exist :)

It's complicated, so much so I don't think that can be actively discussed here due to the established rules here. One need only to look at where the larger majority of users are and how they view crypto to get a glimpse on one aspect, with the other being that of the people who came from the crypto community having done nothing on the platform itself, where user numbers didn't change at all. Had the actual user count gone up, the tune would different

That is why you will actively hear Neos is fine, but the other aspect isn't. Additionally, when the platform had it's possible moment to shine at its brightest (aka VRCpocalyspe), the platform and its users were the ones to step in... not NCR and crypto.

if anything, there was only speculation, and no action.

Do people have the negative freedom that Isaiah Berlin speaks of? A lot of people are not engineers and don't do a lot of building, but we are all promoting the neos vr platform. It takes some patience to attract enough smart people to come in and there will be Goose Goose Duck-like opportunities

I have no clue who Isaiah is, but claiming that the platform only has "builders and engineers" somewhat defeats the entire point. The thing is that say that is true: then why are there no visitors? At that statement, Neos is just a visitorless museum of creations with people who proclaim support by promoting it.

If that's indeed the case, the number of promotors far surpasses the number of visitors and 'engineers' combined. That, to many extents, only highlights the point further. Neos isn't just for builders and creators; it's supposed to be for everyone. If people actually signed in, gave critique and concepts of solutions, instead of uttering lunar phrases like a endless chant and speculating on value, the tune many people would be singing wouldn't be as it is now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLVasPpAoKg

There are so many creations in Neos VR, it takes a really long time to see them all. This also comes due to contests and fairs having been done. MMC is this contest, CJ is something called creator jam where people meet regularly just to create for a single topic, everyone can join and optionally take part in the creation. Those worlds are still up for visits later then. Also there is Neos Festa, a kind of fair with a subset of what content creators made so far in Neos VR. There is a lot to discover in Neos VR. Maybe find a guide by hanging out in the MTC tutorial world and asking whoever joins, what kind of interesting worlds there are in Neos.

Oh, huh. I have no idea Froox was doing their own workshop stuff. Would have saved me the headache with their websockets and HTTP one.

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its kind of hard to optimise for user generated content and due to how the world model currently works, but there's always going to be the users that refuse to optimise such as too many blend shapes or polygons or heavy processing logix

integrated with UE ? unreal engine there is no plan to move Neos to unreal engine due to licensing issues of the engine plus that wouldn't solve the issues with optimisation

Neos is only using Unity for rendering and input handling the rest is being handled by frooxengine

also comparing linear to gamma is not much of a difference what is a difference is switching from frustrum culling to occlusion culling would be nice

Linear space is actually the more accurate one to calculate in

anyone can become familiar with the ui/ux
it is better than most, just it is unique
unity is the bigger issue
as for what neos can run on
an average gaming pc can run it
my laptop can :P
the idea that so many vr titles should exist on a mobile platform is degrading, since you compromise the focus of the app just to run it on the absolute lowest denominator
it is an interesting and challenging limitation to have but it also isnt necessarily a good one

Mobile platforms will catch up to the point that neos can run on it. In fact i am pretty sure that platforms like this will reach the same performance OR integrate wireless completly in the next years. We already have that to some degree, because a cable is obviously downgrading vr experiences.

But to develop in the direction of mobile platforms is a mistake.

I mean seriously, neos has a android client and it runs great. Seriously. The only problem is that the machines running it have 4 or 6 gb of ram. Start any world, except an empty one, and it crashes. Its not the fault of neos, its the hardware limitation as such.

Neos is not meant for mobile, even though there is an official android version. Let alone because 99% is community created content. Everybody has other standards of optimizing their stuff or not at all.

What i mean is: "Mobile" VR headsets will fast enough close the gap to not require user-optimization. You would also be surprised how well it actually works. Just a question of time.

thinking about that one user i met with over 20000 slots on their avatar.. backpack system ugh
it wasn't even a rex

*speaking of rex...

I'll also confirm the android version runs fine. Oddly, the requirements for mobile processing isn't as steep. Additionally, Neos has the ability to rebake textures at different resolutions, so it's possible to just request the system to rebake at a reduced resolution to reduce memory requirements on mobile.

Additionally, with the Steam Deck being a thing, that can act as a litmus test for portable operations, since standalone systems are improving in capabilities.

i don't fully understand neos asset system, but i assume all asset variants are separate of the original image file, the user downloads the original i believe
for mobile that might mean extra data use?

do you mean mip maps?

i know that some people use the steam deck as a baseline for world performance

possibly
there is the option to set a max resolution on a texture, i guess that is the maximum size of the generated variant
but i mean the original image file is still downloaded always

Well... depends on the texture format. With KTX, it stores things as progressive mipmap, so the filestream doesn't even need to complete to have at least something loaded in. I'm guessing to save bandwidth, a clientside 'max resolution' setting could be used and if the textures do allow streaming (it is an option to disable this on the texture settings, including mipmapping), only download enough until satisfied.

granted, that's all hypothetical situations

would be nice for neos to download initially small texture sizes just to show something instead of the many fully unloaded textures

I thought that was already a thing... hmm... I wonder what would happen if I did supply a KTX texture into Neos: would it work and would it actually gain the benefits?

(I mean, seriously, it understands Milkshape3D as a 3D format; asking for another odd file type isn't exactly too odd of a question for the platform)

Well, that's one disadvantage. They have to sacrifice something. Either just use the original image and have more space on cloud or generate mipmaps beforehand. Imo they should do both, by generating mipmaps when the textures get loaded. That would be a temporary lag spike, but should pay out at the end.

well.. it only requests up to 2k varient sadly the other varients are still in ram

so like

meh

https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1525678169763766273 this is running on quest

and a recent tweet from me just so i could add onto this https://fxtwitter.com/xLinkaVR/status/1613230301764882432

When I try to share, I get loads of hate and rejection. I'm called a Crypto Bro, and kicked from worlds.

it may convert to internal formats

reread my message and you should understand why

I disagree, these people literally want nothing to do with cryptocurrency, and reject the very notion in conversation.

It's a matter of intolerance.

once again: we gave you the reasons why it is heavily frowned upon with quite a few users. However, not all users have immediate issues, so this doesn't apply to everyone.

hmm... I can concur a bit with that. The current tutorial is more of a presentation, rather than an exercise. Just me, but I prefer conditional training, where there's a task and goal, which helps demonstrate the user knows the foundations before moving forward.
Oh, and having the tutorial's world size reduced would also be nice. It's a pretty chunky boi

You can tell people where things are in the UI and help them along sure, but on it's own it isn't entirely intuitive. Even the settings itself it just a long list of items. And you can't even edit your dashboard without the secret button combo.

I'm not gonna say it's bad, it's just not intuitive, yet.

BUT... yeah, I'll admit that I was able to teach users who had NO experience with VR how to use Neos in less than a half hour. Mind you, I was also having to teach them the basics of VR as well.

as for the crypto thing, that was a product of its time. During that era, the attitude with such wasn't like it is now. Back then, it was viewed more as an alternative to PayPal and similar services, during a time when trust with banks were pretty low.
However, at this time, Neos doesn't have any direct cryptographic functions within itself, and the irony of the gridlock is that the situation also proves how much it didn't need it, since a year of no updates later, and it's lack of inclusion hasn't hindered it at all.

The irony being that VRC is constantly advertised as "a place where you can build or be anything"...

I'm aware of the legal situation, however it is operating. For me, I have no intentions of returning to VRC, given I still am not in favor of their business practices and their community can <redacted for moderation reasons>

that is very subjective. You don't hear about users complaining the same with Chillout, which I'm positive has more tools to convert VRC components to COVR, but that doesn't dismiss the fact the systems are different.
However, that does highlight a point that I've made a few times, namely that not everyone does import custom avatars, let alone the entire process. In most VRC cases, avatars are set up by creators, and that process, by comparison, is a nightmare. I'll openly admit that VRChat's avatar creation tools are by far the worst I've ever dealt with, even with the backing of Unity helping it.

The problem is the ownership of the code. You can't just copy and do whatever you want. Github, while commonly a place for open source projects, is also a tool for closed source projects, which Neos currently is. Change the system, and the situation doesn't really change. This is why forking the code isn't an option.

another legal battle, same end point should one result in a shutdown. Just the latter one would then include additional issues such as code theft and possible anti-competition clauses. I'm not a lawyer, but those two I can place wagers on with some reliance.

those two points do not have a relation. It doesn't matter if VRC has the most or the least: it has nothing to do with anticompetition clauses if you want to just copy the code or form a mirrored service.

that wasn't the point. If either founder right now took the code and mirrored it, they could be in competition with themselves with said fork, unless the legal situation has been dismissed and, should any clauses exist, that any handling of ownership is managed and/or additional conditions

I am positive you mean well, but you really don't understand the situation and just want a solution, the penalties be darned. That's just not how it works in the real world, at least without ramifications.

the legal entity that owns the code would have to make that choice. That's the problem.

It's a legal issue. These things can take YEARS.

the problem is there is nothing that can really be done except to try and form services that replace the required ones. If people want to create their own cloud services with plug-ins as an alternative to Neos's provided services, that is doable and could be done without causing issues with the situation.

otherwise, there isn't a solution that the community can really do, and both parties involved can't do anything until something is resolved between themselves

doable, but there isn't an upload function within Neos to do that.

I dunno. I can't beleive I'm even humoring this idea but... is Karel good at Quake 3? Just have him and Froox deathmatch it out like when Bethesda had their lawsuit over Mojang over the name 'Scrolls'

it would certainly be safer to rewrite the disputed code than to """steal""" it

most of the contributions outside of froox are not under disputed ownership so maybe that is actually feasible

also been here two years.. i can hardly grasp all the components there are

if i had a dollar for every time i found a better way to do something (component replacing logix or just more efficient logix) id be rich

...hmm.... the website is offline

a little unrelated but i made my own searcher and use it constantly :P

Same

speaking of which i think your api duplicates some entries
i was able to use the list you gave me so it is offline

hmmm....
https://imgur.com/a/yCFo4Gk

hm what do you mean..?
you can try using shortcuts instead, makes it easier to add launch arguments like for neos mods

so one is off, the other isn't

ahh xP

neosvr used to only redirects right?

I thought so, but apperently not? The IPs between the two are different now.

maybe no longer owned

still owned and operated it seems by the original holder

yeah. This situation happened before...

The risks of Metavers 👇

https://twitter.com/gamertagvr/status/1613164457227685888?s=46&t=npwGg2cQvb_w4cFm9itmLg

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eh... while VR is a factor for a metaverse, it isn't a requirement. It's immersive, but if someone goes in with a phone or laptop, they won't have body tracking persay

however, that would be why LL is (finally) adding things like webcam tracking. Such things that allow better embodiment will be an interesting key in how socializing occurs on platforms

NEOS isn't a toy, it's a powerhouse platform for powerhouse machines.

Stop trying to make this community platform tailor itself to the mainstream low poly Quest/PICO Standalone crowd.

"Lighting environment is linear" ??? What is this guy talking about..

Also My clients have synced their Oculus to a cloud computer through their Iphone to access NEOS without a local laptop device. It's possible to run NEOS through distributed cloud compute rather than a local laptop.

possible, but not ideal. There are times when VR isn't possible or needed.

also, the lighting system is linear; Geenz mentioned that was to be addressed, but is now held back for obvious reasons...

it's why hdr skymaps are extra bloomy

(well, moreso than they should)

i use a tesla m40 24gb sharded between 4 vms for remote vr use

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I'm 1000+ hrs in and Own a Pro License, to me its not a toy.

Its different things for different users.

it's both
i do stupid stuff and then i also have intimate conversations xP

.. if anyone asks i wasnt here lmao

something for professional applications, it existed but was ran really poorly for a while
now it is even no longer advertised

shhhhhh no one knows that xdd

what no
basically aka terrible simplification, neos pro is (supposed to be) for cases where you need professional support with neos or integration with your own services

i think it was supposed to be a bit beyond that like with actual neos bugs/features

not to say that the workshops and other events aren't "professional" but those are all focused within neos

any time those are running its usually pretty active

unless you mean the other events part

that's an interesting perspective
for me that same definition would be kind of like a playground

do yall bang smh

thats tmi anyways
awaiting getting punted into the ether

coming back to this, of course it is not
what did happen though is neos cultivated an inviting community
. and also one where various things are more possible

iykyk, there is even a joke about neos search results :p

rip

i know a lot of people hate neos cause of crypto

despite it kind of not existing anymore

really?? damn

i played well under 100 hrs in vrc

neos, uhh

5000

It was always the case. VLC is a mirror simulator. Pretty much the content of it is to look in a mirror, seeing yourself. But Neos is far to complicated for the average stupid user. I mean its no mystery why apple is so successful. They never really invented, they made accessable. Thats basicly it. And it is a missing ingredient for neos still.

ironically neos is more accessible than vrc in several ways

I kind of prefer neos for the very reason of what it is. This system might be only accessable to slightly over average... technically inclined. But as such also a space where you actually find such people

ie actually usable mute helper
a keyboard that doesn't suck
translators
locomotion modes without needing external software

god when vrc added their own mute helper i had trouble telling if it was actually working let alone if anyone could read my messages

Its a space where you "just go and create" and as such it is nice. But beside the obvious, there is also the clinch between the 2 owners we can't forget here. Before that is not solved, talking about accessability and more people is not really reasonable

true
almost 40%? quest users make up vrc

well obviously not. There is a critical mass. If neos would be as successful, player base wise, it would be

Its kind of self-perpetuation

Doesn't mather. If it would be, neos would be really dead by now. Because while in this deep freeze state, it could never grow over a certain point

It is actually good that neos is overlooked until everything is solved with the owners, because there is only one thing more dangerous then stopped deveopment. Its stopped development while in player growth

i had my tutorial session set to public
you really need an open mind or everything seems impossible..
i wonder how simplified neos can get before it becomes an insult to existing users
or theyll just be happy things are easier
i would be

You can't have a growing player base, creating new problems, creating new load, creating more reason for nefarious people to find cracks

Without continued development

that almost happened

Yea and it would have killed it

some 1000 peak users
most back to vrc because change is hard and eac wasn't enough of a big deal

We survived because of luck and quick desinterest

and rapid fire updates on vrcs part xP

But the owner have to really get their shit togehter. This will not happen again most likely. If anything major happens and neos gets in the focus...

It will be done for if we are stuck like this

i dont know, right now there is no where else to go for me

id quit vr

maybe chuck my headset off a bridge

Well, its not dead yet, but i often feel like the owners of neos are not aware how much luck they have every day if its not the last of neos

ouchie

There is time pressure, we just don't know how long obviously

I'm sure the dev team is very aware
and in deep gridlock nonetheless

is the robot mic thing true??

The dev team is developing, but they can release nothing without it ending one way or the other

incredible

It doesn't even mather who prevails, its just a question to finally end it. If froox gets full control, it will still be called neos and there will be a big patch and after that... everything stays mostly normal.
If froox doesn't, well there will be most likely 2 versions. One called neos, one neox (i am joking) and the two owners have 2 different things that result out of this project. One will probably prevail

freos

It doesn't really mather that much. Worst case the name changes. Its just a question of... finally getting to a resolution

on the discord at some point the differentiation was keos and feos i believe lmao

i won't say singlehandedly

somehow not the worst offender

To be fair, crypto didn't ruined the platform really. It was the massiv amount of money suddenly involved that changed what neos is/was. The virtual currency was suddenly worth more then the code (for a short time)

And that triggert the break, as both sides had vastly different idea how to go forward with neos (and the software license)

Its easy to assign blame. I just want the two to finally come to a solution. If they would understand how little actually depends on who gets the name "neos" this might have been over for years

And to be entirely truthful, while i think there could be an interesting open source project without froox, we still want to see his creation of what he thinks neos is

well you already are up to speed
theres not a lot we really really need to know and there is nothing else to disclose about it

The name doesn't mather really, thats what the two should have figured out by now. Its a miracle this stand still is in the interest of them both in any way

petition to rename it "the metaverse" /s

jinxed

in other news ive been hearing all about this new platform called nosevr..

oouf

. what is it?

makes me think of cursed vrc lighting

I promoted neos vr at a vr entertainment store in Bangkok today, the manager thanked me and said he would install neos vr on every computer

we get to see if that will happen, in real time xD

I thought that was shut down already

doesnt need to be a benefit to let people know neos exists

I think you are forgetting why there are costs to the system, but sure. Whatever.

also, dang... lots of chatter.

Sansar is... complicated. It was sold off, then it was silently shutdown... but then it wasn't because someone was asleep at the wheel... it's in a weird place.

overall, it was an okay place. I avoided it because I was informed it ran like early XP machines playing Crysis. It wasn't quite that bad, but most of its bad press was also from Second Life users who are old and hate change just didn't like the idea of there being another system by the Lab.

and I see the neosvr.com redirect is working, but with the most roundabout solution I've ever seen

...but whatever. If you want to burn more money with a second server.... uh... sure, I guess.

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how do I change my account password?

i am pretty sure you can do that at neos.com

just login with your account or use mail recovery

there is no UI on the neos website for changing my password. and i tried mail recovery but never received an email

Use the in-neos one, its the most reliable

yeah... especially since the site has been acting weird as of late... at least with its redirecting handling

Yes

In fact, the IP changed. Logs are on my system

I know. Wasting more money

Any chance we could stop talking about the 404 verification bs which i repeatedly explain is not an issue of incompetence or inability but is actually one of communication.

Thanks!

Its not even fast at redirecting fast... Took a long while to kick in

NCR

storage tokens!

Was about to say. At this point, NCR is just an apology to its users by giving them free storage space.

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NCR was founded by karel as a means for ingame economy and funding and as a reward to users, original intent was not for exchange listings but if thats your opinion sure XD

yeah... thinking back, wasn't it just supposed to be getting initial funding for the internal markets? The reward more or less being once everything was running, having the NCR meant you could supply creators and the like for their goods via internal exchange, with external being a cashout for those who need it?

Basically another L$, but with more steps involved?

Nft's are here to stay, same as baseball card collectors. We can discuss if Charichard card is valued reasonably at 300k but it would be pointless. So just stop fighting windmills, my furry friend

What is insane though is that there has been zero updates on this conflict

Zero is an absolute statement, it's not true. You can read at least 2-3 updates. Remember to use precision of language in such things. If you said "there hasn't been a recent update" then sure. But saying there has been zero is disingenuous.

that's up to people who deal with nfts to discuss and bother themselves with
their hobby, not mine

bingo

Well not so sure about that, the last "update" from Frooxius if I remember right, was actually letting community know what has happened and what he wants with his devs (Karel out). After that there has been radio silence so zero updates might just be right. Unless something has happened in these last months

Which seems like it has not

But yeah, you can correct me and say "There has not been updates in x months"

Cool thanks for adjusting your language remember that any update is an update. Even if you don't like it. There have been other updates. Including in here.

the last "update" if you will call it that is some form of discussion is still happening-karel mentions in this channel
not really an update if it brings nothing new

I prefer to actually have the collector's card instead of just a receipt of ownership of something hosted on opensea for everyone to download and copy

For the few people who avoid all kinds of crypto not going to Neos VR?

You can copy them, but you cannot own them

While many may not like NCR, it did help with some initial funding for neos. I can't agree that it should have *never* existed

Well, one way you could use them in Neos, the other way, it's a moderation issue that might get you banned

That NCR helped funding yet has to be shown

Mhm, but I havnt seen much from the alternatives either, other than Patreon of course

Patreon certainly helped to keep it running, I also see other funding, that I believe happened through education

Neos is a teaching tool in the education area

I'd really like to see utility in NCR. Something in Neos only NCR can buy

🤦‍♂

Visionaries see the future, not the present.
The founders are incredible visionaries.

NRC has future potential

Do you have ideas, what the utility might be?

Are you on the main development team?

Neos is not a competitor to VRChat and also not the other way round. They are distinct enough to be each their own

What makes your friend's pov to be the proper one?

No
But when I see what was created I hope that something good comes.
Sometimes good things need their time.

Neos is no VRChat alternative really. Neos is so much more

If you're looking for VRChat alternative, that'd be something like Chillout instead

I have tried it, gives me the impression to be an attempt to create VRC from scratch again

VRC is not a competitor of Neos, Neos does not maintain a fully functional social platform. You can socialize but there are limitations in comparison to VRC

VRC is a different platform with a different purpose. One is not a limitation of another

Yes, VRC is limited compared to Neos and that's why Neos doesn't compete with VRC

Neos isn't a finished platform, maybe I should put it that way. It can be a lot more than it is now, but its not there yet

Neos is already what VRC can never be

Premium for what? Storage? Regardless, neos isn't ready for large scale attention imo.

That I can agree with

We gotta have a functional product first

Not saying neos is broken, but its definitely an early access feel

I think Neos broke in November 2021. And it doesn't look like anyone is visibly trying to fix it. I cannot say anything about things happening away from the public, as I don't know for sure

Neos is currently in a weird spot. It can decide now to be a service or a system.

A service would be like how VRC and COVR operate, with the client talking to the central systems for login, cloud storage, and the like.

A system would be... like Neos, where it can run independently on its own (see LAN mode and Headless-Clients).

The steam version is cut anyway. I mean yes, its only the ncr but considering that steam just happend to forbid a featur of the game, i usually run the full version anyway

Weird, as they are identical, except for the missing token part, that has been conditionally excluded from compiling on the steam version

...the differences between the Steam build and web build are minimal...

Yeah, you should do what you want

that also wouldn't do anything with the Steam build.... because at that point, the web build still talks to SteamVR just the same as the other build.

My guess here is, that steamvr might be the issue and itself turning on, when it doesn't have to?

but I'm also not a technical support for Neos so... *shrugs*

It might just be that the cache directory that is married with the steam version is defective

Those are also identical. So we can exclude that guess

Exactly

It doesn't matter if standalone (web download) or steam version, they both use the same directories for database and cache. The standalone even calls into steam and registers play time and uses steam sockets, when steam is running

then it sounds like the issue is with SteamVR, and not the Steam build;

Yes, that's my idea. Maybe it could help to add an Oculus VR parameter in the properties

my guess is that when launching the Steam version, Steam tries to launch SteamVR. With the web build, I'm guessing it checks which runtime is actually active (OpenXR or Oculus). In theory, the Steam build CAN be made to use the Oculus build via a parameter or using the launcher

that.... doesn't really matter

additionally, that's a different objective point: SteamVR is a system for hardware handling. Neos is an application

when u say the steam one doesnt work what doesnt like what is the issue you are encountering

also using a separate server for assets / local storage mod is just hell and strain for other users in session making it more miserable since your loading a local:// asset meaning it uploads to the host and then back to every user putting strain on network even causing desync and the textures wont be optimised by the asset variant server so thats even worse

so i wouldnt reccomend it

Neos doesnt not use openxr it uses oculus openvr or steam which is just openvr but on the other hand, -RiftTouch as a launch argument will force neos to use oculus runtime

that's something I've been meaning to look into is if there is a way to host self optimized assets. For example, is there a way to upload a texture to a web server that has the optimizations presented in Neos? Would be interesting for some headless systems, if the strain of syncing could be offloaded with a setup like that. Plus, it could introduce some better security concepts

the solution is saving the item in inventory and keeping it there but also exporting its 7zbson then using that 7zbson to cloudspawn as it assets will be optimised by the asset variation server

but that still uses cloud storage so theres no real point to this method

ah..hmm...

So your kinda out of luck in that respect

Everything can be nft, what do you think about selling accessories like in roblox?

Don't be conceited that you're right. The world is changing.

We don't need to convince everyone to like cryptocurrencies, and nft does need geniuses to explore right now. Many cryptocurrency-hating artists are now exploring nft too

Yeah, don't just live in the corner of a room with vr headsets, go out and do some volunteer work.

the irony of that statement being what Neos, this channel's representation, being mostly, even if it has a desktop mode...

Embrace ncr

*sigh*

I'll embrace what works, and clearly one still let's me do things like play games, hang out, and respond to these messages, and the other is monopoly money that doubles as a storage coupon

me using the android build mwahha

how much ram does the device has you use it on?

uhh whatever note 20 ultra and zfold 4 havew

There is only a single build that has 8GB, the other 3 types have 12. Depends i guess

yea, still more then the 4 or 6 of the occulus things

So i guess "good enough" for small worlds with few players

Yea, i mean you probably dont use the android build in that case

The android build works pretty well, even if not officially supported "to play". Its main limitation is that it "just crashes" the moment the ram fills up

It doesn't track how much it has available or uses any workaround for it

None

1.6-1.8gb useable on Quest 1 3.5gb useable on quest 2

the rest is system reserve that unity or games cant use as its for the operating system

if you say so, its even less in any case

so its not that kind of surprising that neos has difficulties. It also probably was never intended to run on a pc with 2 gb usable ram

To be fair, I did test it on a 4GB junker laptop to help test a few things (namely, which platforms could run in the worst of conditions) and Neos DID work fine

but lately as I check Neos when in medium sized worlds, VRAM is eaten up mega quickly

it wasn't all arguments a while ago :p

pcs have the luxury of fast ssd swap (usually) while mobile devices generally don't tend to use storage as "extra ram"

even any swap at all like hdd, better than none

ouch.. my old card had 4gb vram and would crash if i looked at it funny

if memory serves me well, mobile devices also don't really have dedicated video memory: they just have a chunk of memory that is used for both data and graphical information.

The laptop was a Dell junker so... I only dedicated 1GB to it. It ran 'okay' but obviously not the best. Difference between Running and Running Well, if you will

I mean, even the 3200mb/s ram cant compete with actual ram, and most "fast" ssd's don't reach that, even the M.2 ones

but sure, there certainly could be a workaround to make neos run if the devs seriously try ;)

that's... not a very pleasant response...

they were being quite respectful

None

Generic answer, only one sentence