I'm literally tired and done with all of this. At this point, I'm just waiting to see somethign happen, because I'm very positive nothing will take place because of course it doens't. It's the telegram group for christs sake

like, it had asperations to be good, and it never has.

like, legit... agian, and I keep bringing this up: no one in here is on Neos. Why? Because the numbers keep going down and everyone is just wanting their stupid fun money

like okay, sure... go ahead, do wahtever. At this point, I can send mine to a null address and it'd go through

meanwhile, some stupid moron who will more than happy to backstab everyone is going to just do wwhatever

no u

so who cares? Nothing is going to happen. If this chat is the future of Neos, jesus christ on a bicycle, it's beyond dead

I come on Neos during events, but again I don't think you should expect to see any of our names here ingame. I don't really want those in charge of the platform tying my name here to my identity there.

Remember when they were making a personal little shitlist over on Discord of people's names here? Ah good times

Not that I'd worry in the slightest, but, you know, Neos moderators are hard at work

Glad they have time to pop up in here for damage control

oh look at the title! "Neos Metaverse" Ahuh... yeah, okay... sure

Hopefully the future of Neos involves a whole new set of names and faces.

just go o n, enlighten me how the telegram chat, run by the "All mighty and powerful" "CEO" is somehow now linked to any future work or discussions about the platform?

like come on. You are all serious? Like, okay... no wonder people are dropping Neos's patreon harder than ever

at this point, the server bill is going to bounce so hard it'll make an earthquake

I'd messaged Andrea and Karel around 5 times about it prior to you claiming you messaged them and they cleaned it up...

they don't need to see you. They can just hear about all the lack of anything happening in here. Crypto spammers going on for an entire week babbling about elon-elephant coins and all that. Oh no, someone updated their linkedin with false info about a project and expected no one to find out. Sure

Well maybe I just got them at a good time

You mean run it like an actual proper dicussion channel? That'd be great

I've already volunteered but eh

like, that's why I just don't care anymore. I have accepted that anything that happens here has no weight on any future for the platform.

They have a hard time finding trustable people because they have a hard enough time trusting themselves

they have little to no confidence at this point. It's just an endless "Well... I'll do something eventually" thing, and therefore no movement happens

Exactly. It's just a place we can talk freely

Its not like even if we were talking over in the discord they'd be giving a shit about our feedback anyway

like, yeah, Karel COULD hire a new team, and just go on. Even if it ends up as its own fork for whatever stupid reason, it can be done. But has he? Has he begun to prepare setting that up? No. Instead he whines about "Oh I'm getting old, and people are greedy and all this..." Like come on... even with the bad stuff that's happened, anyone would want his position because it's a surprisingly good one. Do some right stuff, and man you can make some powerful decisions

At this point, it's just the nature of the chat now

I would not want to be plagued with having to navigate a group of friends all seeing me as an outsider and then trying to align them to a vision and deadlines. It was not a good position.

So you fix it. There are many ways to come up with happy medium solutions and even then, if it's that big of an issue... then negotiate one's own path. I mean, if he outsourced the website design to something that can't even read an exchange website right, pretty sure he can outsource another engine to carry on the torch.

Logs would be great. I know not to take anything anyone says at face value these days as people are perpetually full of shit, so evidence is good.

*sigh* I'm going to go eat donuts.

I'm most likely going to get some tacos. There's a place right across the street that looks pretty neat

Did the value go down as a reason for the buyback? Sounds like hardly much happened if it went up by so little like that.

again, mostly why this entire thing is just a stupid joke at this point

Maybe he doesn't think the currency is dead like you wish it was.

I mean, with the value of crypto crashing hard, there's hardly a reason to fight against the flow of an entire failing ecosystem. Like, sure, you can swim upwards at times, but like... really? Glad his "investors" paid to be screwed over. Could think of many more ways to blow all that

he could pay Geenz for a week

If there's something I can infer from all this it's that Karel might be hard to communicate with. I can see that being the case. It usually always is involving these weird cases where it feels like there are very few professional boundaries between everyone though

doesn't that mean that eventually Karel will just be holding all the NCR at some point?

If I'm to speciate, I'm guessing Karel wants to reduce the amount of NCR or if he gets to reboot the company, to do another funding run with it

I'm not gonna pretend to know his motives but it seems like he actually gives a damn about the holders, and is perhaps the only one who does

That's a hell of a gamble when it could be invested into like... I mean literally anything else >.> <.<

...okay... that's... actually an interesting angle... not going to lie

Hell if I know.

I mean, more interestingly will be what will happen with the Neos balance wallets for NCR.

What would have helped is if the team wasn't outright at war with it at the same time. Because the attitude was "whenever the team fuds their own funding scheme, I'm converting ETH into NCR to undo some of the damage"

It's ok because in his childish mind they're not real people having their angst taken out on they're cryptobros

Oh right, the thing that brought millions to the platform is "karel's pet" and "eh, it's there. It mostly works like L$ from SL. It's probably not the worst thing in the world."

Oh it brought the company millions? OK that'll be $50k for 10 hours please thanks

I love his idea for NCR

That it shouldn't be something you can speculate on, because speculation is evil or something

it should be a stablecoin

I'd love to hear how they think they can manage that

according to him, because it's not pegged to the dollar or some sort of non-fractional reserve, it's "mismanaged"

Sure people will just line up to put food in his mouth when offered to exchange their dollars for something worth less than a dollar

and if you benefitted (from taking a risk of which no one at Neos would bail you out of) and profitted from buying NCR? you're a "cryptotrader"

yeah he sounds like a great hire

Well I remember the reaction to Reactant getting a house "Hope you get to enjoy it beause we're coming to take it from you"

As if any of them would be forthcoming about how they massively benefitted from their NCR holdings

I wouldn't want to look because I don't want to see any of these people's faces.

Every bit as psycho as it sounds. Right out of the community they pretend to moderate

Because this was WELL before NCR blew up, thus "Karel has all this money for buybacks1!!11" is completely irrelevant. Secondly, it speaks to his character to ask a project like Neos for such absurd amounts of money.

they were hoping NCR... wasn't a scam? wtf does he mean by this?

They've gotten so used to preaching to the braindead kids that suck up to them that he can just act like he doesn't understand how the company he's demanding to work for even gathers funds.

and it's clear at this point by blackmail Karel meant "demanding so much money that the project would die". But I think all Geenz has at this point is the word "Blackmail" and he just keeps using it in lue of having any actual grievences worth airing.

It's always been "shout loud and often" and they've been good at leveraging this into a crypto issue because they know it's a very unpopular sector right now among the chronically online drama obsessed furries

None

Lol at the new drama. Geenz is a fucking idiot and so is Prime

Also laughing at the person trying to suggest its illegal to do volunteer work

Thanks for being so nice.

I hope you're having a fantastic day

Lol keep on wearing that lame mask of maturity bud. No one fooled here

I only wear one mask, it stores my tools.

oh yes all medical facilities. Ideally basically anywhere with concentrated amounts of people. I even still wear them on the bus.

Scientists have discovered that brains see tools as the extension of one's body. So it's probably better to say that our brain is using our body as a tool. Which makes us all tools.

Its fascinating.

Scientists

I actually purchased a box of multi-colored KN95s. They're quite nice... and pretty

Way too early for me to be reading this cringe

Then dont

Maybe I'd find Probable's cringe chuuni crap tolerable if not for how pathetic it looks in light of how utterly useless he has been in bringing the Neos community together, but also in that he's a moron in how to manage the self-inflicted wound to the head of their own product

your snide attitude looks just pathetic to anyone who knows you're here just because you're bored over on the discord and have nothing to do.

Perhaps we could have a better conversation if you weren't just baiting for negative reactions?

Personal insults in conversations don't encourage good communication.

If you'd like to have an actual conversation at some point let me know.

I think we can agree that the feeling there is mutual. Thanks

His duty is to bolster the gang's numbers to give them a slight air of legitmacy, while they faffs about while indulging in 6 months of stupid drama while quickly becoming irrelevant in the VR space.

Well, maybe we could've communicated if you didn't let your discord devolve into a 24/7 character assassination session.

You're right

I don't control the rules on that discord. That's the moderation team.

I came in here to see the other side

Well I came in after hearing the absurd posts from Geenz on reddit about how he thought he should get a top tier salary squeezed out of Neos BEFORE ncr blew up

But then I found Probably popping in at the same time.

We've been fine without you, we've been talking for months here and quite frankly putting our differences (mostly) aside and talking about Neos

Ok lets do that then

🤭🍿

We'll start a fresh right now.

fine, I guess

Thanks

Apologize for yours too

You're entitled to your opinion.

here's my opportunity to get the better of you both and apologize for insults, but I still have my sore thoughts and feelings about you I'll have you know, Probable

No worries, If there are no insults I'm happy to chat

I don't care about apologies for myself, but if anything I'd like to see an apology to Reactant whom you let be run out of the community.

thought it doesn't matter really, does it

Our community might be better for that apology. I never really spoke to them outside of the game and we got on well. I remember chatting about the avatar they worked on.

They built it all by themselves and basically everytime I saw them in game there were updates.

Reactant? He's the reason I have so many trackers. Was pretty chill the two times I met them in-world. Really blew my mind, really.

Thats why I don't like any of the goldnames. They never really did anything empathetic during this whole thing unless it benefits them or some narrative.

They pipe up when they need to defend themselves, or when it benefits them, but everything else is just letitng things decay

If you have a rule violation to report you can open a ticket at moderation.neos.com and you'll get an official response from our team.

Thanks

No one steps in until you have a good point

I did today at least, no-one's replied yet though

Then thats when you see "geenz is typeing, probableprime is typing.." start firing up

We're discussing that one internally Lex, we did receive it. Thanks!

legit criticism NEEDS to be shouted down by the mob on the discord

Infact based on my records here, you have a response that's been sent at 7:51 pm

which timezone?

Oh sorry, Pacific

well I've never gotten that from.. anyone there

If I really wanted to piss people off, I'd be honest and point out Karel is the only one who really talked to some of us

Well we've started a fresh Orc, what do you want to talk about?

I'm still waking up...

No worries, happy to chat any time.

Oh I know this wonderful fellow from our wonderful Neos community

https://imgur.com/ofvNr0b

what a nitwit

they're literally over there brainstorming ways they can go after someone or try to get them arrested in their childish fantasies... And that's allowed over there on the discord

Tickets have a response in 48ish hours usually. I monitor the response rate

Often in like 1 hour

My favorite of ALL TIME is that Karel is a human rights violator under UN law

Did they provide ticket numbers, I can look up those tickets

No, im asking for ticket numbers to check

Ill log into the ticket desk right now and check

No one responded to the ticket when a mentor basically sexually harassed me while showing me how to equip my avatar in Neos.

Do you have the ticket number for that one?

Naw, I don't remember it

Okies, what username was used?

Basicaly what happened was

It was my first time in Neos, and suddenly a mentor appeared out of nowhere in the welcome area. I thought well that's cool. So he's walking me through how to equip my avatar from VRC

When I have it mostly equipped he starts acting affectionate and goes like "mmm I'd raise my tail for that" or something

I was like "...um what?" and then he starts making some chittering noise like a dragon welp or some shit I dont know

and then he does that, starts lifting his tail

What username did you use when reporting that? I can double check the ticket status and we can take it to Direct messages.

and I didnt expect him to have a fully modeled butthole there

Sure it was

was their username

Oh no not their username, Your username

Oh, no I'd rather remain anonymous

I know.

We wouldn't restrict anyone for that. I'd literally look for the ticket in question and see what happened.

This was like 8 months ago

Then based on what happened i can go speak to moderation

Ok that timeframe helps. I'll look for issues around then

i mgiht not have finished it fully. I didnt even at the time know you could send a ticket

Like, this was my first time logging into the game

If the ticket was submitted anonymously. We can't respond to it. Or if the ticket was not finished then we won't have a record of it

So December?

So you'll do nothing?

If you complete the ticket, we can discuss it via the ticket

Or if I can find it. But did you finish it?

Yeah, I had just bought a bunch of NCR at around $10 a pop and was logging in to see what I could do with it

I can't discuss it here regardless and to ensure there's a paper trail I need it to be a ticket yes

It's ok Prime, all is forgiven, it was just quite an experience

I understand, If you have a ticket that has no prompt response let me know the ticket number and I can chase it up.

Yeah don't you have someone there making a list with our names on it?

Its moderation policy to not discuss tickets in public. Very common in many platforms.

We also don't have a list.

If its not a ticket, I'd accept private messaging. But would need a ticket to base any account restrictions on for the offender.

So did you delete the shitlist that had our names on it off the discord?

I'm not aware of a shitlist, but if you can tell me where you think it might be I can double check.

wait that exists?

we'll have to get you all caught up then, since you're our new friend and all

If it does, I'm not aware of it. If someone points me to it. I can take a look

yeah I dunno if you saw it, I think it was khosumi or some shit was making a little list of all the bad people from the telegram, prolly for a vein attempt to dox or record everything we say

Wel either the mods did something good for once, or its still there and I can't be arsed to do the mod's job for them to clean up that cesspool we've been run out of

Ok, well if you can tell me where it might be I can look. Otherwise I'm somewhat powerless

Was it a thread? A message?

well he had a list. I was pleased as a peach to see myself on it

YO that's my tailraiser!!

naaaaaw, that's not him~

it's okay. The team wants Neos to basically be F-list VR anyway so we should get used to it

Im not sure if it was reported. Which is maybe why there's no record of it. If you'd like to report that moderation you can open a ticket on moderation.neos.com

🤓🍿

probable we're not gonna be good friends if you're just gonna say the same thing over and over

Im sorry, for this one area Moderation. I'm just following policies that I am not in control of

yeah yeah yeah we know, you like pretending like power is divided. I'm sure someone believes you.

I'm not impotent. Its just moderation policy.

I have let moderation know about the situation but they will recommend a ticket

I mean... I do find it a bit strange that departments are this segregated for a community this small

I'm pretty sure the shitlist is gone

hmm... I think I remember that discussion...
It was the talks about virtual land and all that, based on principals from SL and how some functions within Philip's other project operated. It boiled down to the two who mostly were interested in the subject wanting a decentraland styled operation, while it was basically stated that wasn't going to work with Neos's functionality, since worlds can be spun up freely... so there'd be no estate to really claim.

I mean, it's ugly, but its nothing I'm losing sleep over and I'm willing to let it be water under the bridge

Well I'm realizing they talk about me often after searching my handle there

And all people cared about was price tags and getting rich, instead of how the systems operated within the current infrastructure and the impracticalness of making it work... but eh... c'est la vie

eh... I just remember where the snapshot was from. I thought it looked familiar

but oh well.

I was on the list under "Orc"

Now, keep in mind, it was mentioned before so I guess enough of a stink was made that they cleaned it up (eventually) when it kept getting pointed out

since this is abit of a pissing content, each side has to pretend like we're being fair and stuff

Lol...

perhaps yongyea would like to look at this?

What a hoot

I mean it has to be defended. The fact that word was used is like the most gasp-worthy thing going if framed in this disingenuous way where most of the context is stripped

And apparently it was a concern that some members would dump NCR at a coordinated time, that was actually believed I'm told.

I mean, I verified that myself

https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/942504473438347404/992339270251597924

Thanks Lex

Can't Karel explain that himself so that we know his side?

Being forced to fish out meanings from the supposed perpetrator statements and speculate is just useless when if Karel had a case he could explain it.

IMO it's pretty unfair for just one party to have toexplain themselves.

If Geenz was the villain here and crossed a line by supposedly defaming Karel's character, then it's only natural for Karel to defend himself and explain the situation too instead of leave the work to someone else to speculate over a few word sentenses spead all over the place.

You all seem to ignore Froox has just as much right to take decisions on whom to hire and Geenz still has the team tag.

Well what's there to explain really? The truth is it's nuanced and not a big deal and something adults should be able to move past. I think we've analyzed it to hell and heaven and back again that Karel seemed to be using the term improperly, as in "demanding so much pay that it would damage Neos" and his dropin term for that was "blackmail"

like if we wanna go after him for one thing, I'd say it's that he's not the most elegent with english, for damn sure

even when logs and shit come out that show one party was acting disingenuously, there's an army of apologists

shit like that needs to go infront of a judge IMO

Neos will only succeed by coming out of the ashes of a legal battle as far as I'm concerned

though it's far more likely it'll fade into obscurity while they'll be left fighting over the carcass

I don't get how anything to do with Geenz can even be considered blackmail. He has literally no leverage other that the part of the code he worked on. So stop with the 'legal battle' being needed for this. This take is nonsense Orc.

The facts are that Karel is going against his cofounder decisions on who to work with when it comes to coding and that Karel is in control of the finances and has wasted them on buybacks.

Don't pretend not to see the unbalanced power here for supposed partners.

I mean I think legal clarity is needed for Neos to move forward, not concerning anything to do with Geenz

we solved the Geenz problem here long time ago when we booted his ass out

he only ever showed up just to show his ass after their announcement caused ncr to do a 50% red day and he wanted to gloat

but in response to you, the reason Karel didn't hire Geenz is because he was asking for a LAUGHABLY ABSURD salary

And it'd be great if Karel could be in charge of finances and not have to worry about his own colleagues openly damaging his funding scheme in spite

You guys keep missing the point.

It's up to Frooxius who he works with on coding, as evident that Geenz is still on the team and working on the code for free.

Doesn't matter if he's banned on a unofficial social channel no matter what Karel likes to state.

The core of the problem is that Karel has no right to make decisions on his own, put any kind of timelines or demands or waste finances without the say so of his cofounder.

It's all about missing cooperation and respect as evident that no one wants to work with him anymore.

Also Karel has wasted his finances on buybacks on his own. After all you don't loose anything until you sell. Stop blaming FUD or whatever for NCR casino money failing.

They are co owners dude

So Froox gets to bring in all his friends and people he likes and Karel is just seen as a glorifed bean counter who shouldn't have any say

Karel "wasted" finances... you mean the funding he secured himself?

Froox is the one that has built the product from the ground up and lead programmer. He's the one that deals with creating the product and it's his area of expertise to hire who works on it and if they are ip to the job not someone in a different area like finances.

and FUD is one thing, but when its the actual team involved with the product that's fudding the funding method themselves, what investor in their right mind is going to sit through that?

Karel would have secured nothing without a product attracting customers. He has no right to waste more than 50 % of the company's finances.

right right, and Karel is just a bean counter who doesn't do any work? (this is how I know you're someone who knows nothing about how business works)

I dont know how new you are, but even the disingenuous useless asshole goldnames have to admit that Karel is someone whos had his sleeves rolled up the whole time helping Neos grow.

He might have, but he's recently let the ball drop quite hard with his decision making if this is the result.

Well convenience that you get to be the one who says who is responsible and define your own dreamland reality.

Maybe this isn't a path worth arguing and the better thing to do is to just say "yes, Karel has done alot for Neos" and then we can move on to better topics>

🧐🍿

I mean to Abysmal, because he seems to want to retread the assumption that Karel did nothing, which is something I've already seen hashed out dozens of times.

Techies now think companies exist to perpetuate their lifestyles it seems

I'm arguing from a perspective of a customer interested in a project that is supported by crowd funding and looking at who is the person responsible for building said product and how they are being treated by the guy doing the finances. Anyway I wont be available to talk for a few hours.

well, your perspective comes from a very bunk place it sounds like, if we've the pleasure of welcoming you from the discord. I don't blame you for thinking that this is some one-sided affair if that's where you've been introduced to Neos' woes.

the reality is it's a much more detailed web of stupidity

🙄💁‍♂️🤦‍♂️

So if you guys are going to be condescending and dismissive, assuming I need to educate myself and have a perspective coming from a bunk place, I'm going to respond with the same.

I'm going to assume you've followed the project only for a year at most. That you don't actually see it as a community driven project, since the way you treated ProbablePrime or BusinessLawyer, both people who've been supportive enough of Neos to build plenty of core tools and tutorials, as replaceable.

It makes me wonder what actually brought you to Neos and makes you stay?

Can't you see that if it wasn't for Frooxius and the way he has cultivated Neos, by selecting a Team of people who care for the project and accepted criticism and constructive feedback from the community, Neos wouldn't have gathered yhe support it has?

Sure without Karel, there might not have been a Neos, but that's in the past and it shouldn't absolve him of his current mistakes and treatment of the devs and community.

If he was actually part of the process of developing the platform, he would have been aware of how everyone would react.

Thank karel for more great buyback hold the line Neos is future

I'll thank him when his actions correspond to his whitepaper promises.

Your negative fuels your bad karma only unfortunate comes from it

We must be positive bring about prosperity with ncr for all brothers

Sure whatever cult you're in , you do you as long as you're happy. I'm out of here.

May you have w blessed day

Who is the troll?

Ncr is unstoppable

You need to email hello@neos.com with your query and proposal.

You're hung up on playing kingmaker by trying to argue who had the most involvement in Neos.

If you want to dissect everything that lead to Neos being what it is, you can't pick and choose, nor try to argue that someone's degree is higher so the other party should be disregarded... Which you are not the only person doing that, and it involves more than just named individuals, but a large community and even funders (which is the main thing I've been arguing).

From the very start I've been trying to point out the truth (which brings great anger to some people) that the people who bought NCR are actual members of the community who give a damn about the game. Why wouldn't they be? In the years prior they were.

But at the first time that became inconvenient to narrative building, the story shifted very hard. NCR, which had been being sold since like 2018 or something and been promoted and advertised on streams, suddenly became "Karel's thing", and the holders started becoming labeled as "cryptobros" or traders. Suddenly those who put their money into Neos because they liked it were labeled as "speculators" as if they fact they gained anything was evil through some pseudo-marxist lens on convenience (which is really just propaganda to try to legitimize a takeover).

So you seem to genuinely care about Froox and have anger that he's being treated unfairly, but when it comes to the involved lot of the Japanese players who had no part or knowledge of the drama, and many other content creator casualties in this war, or even just regular players who believe in it, they have no voice and you seem to not care they exist. And as for Karel himself, you seem to think it's not abusive that the discord has been turned into a 24/7 smear campaign and legal-threat brainstorming session for furries with too much time on their hands.

And you think the "devs" gives a flying fuck about them? No. They have been very open about lumping them together as "toxic" and the community has been just as hateful and eager to propagate that. And we know why. It's because they've had their brains pickled in constant dick-sucking from a community of neets who are falling over each other fighting against growth just so they can fancy themselves as virtuous because they want Neos to be this dull insular cuddle-bin where they can all slap meaningless titles ontop of themselves like "Mentor" and feel special.

I agree that people are too aggressive when grouping up everyone who have bought NCR in the same pile as malicious and self-serving.

That's of course not true and has had the same effect as grouping the evil furries in the opposing group.

I'm sure there were plenty of people who minted NCR in order to fund the project or just get a currency yo use in game.

But that doesn't changd the fact that by its unstable nature and outside trading NCR has let plenty of opportunists that are there just for the pump and dump and bots exploit everyone that had good intentions while using it.

NCR in my opinion was a catalyst to start this hate war, because as a speculative asset it invites greed and plenty of people that did took advantage of it.

Maybe it was because people didn't understand the inherent risk of dealing with this type of crypto.

Anyways, my point is that because how NCR was implemented and handled it allowed for some bad actors to taint everyone else with the same brush.

Maybe the problem between Karel and the Team was a correlation instead of causation, and had nothing to do with NCR.

The fact is Karel hasn't actually explained his plans for NCR. Crypto has been his responsibility and NCR hasn't been used as advertised.

The distrust you're getting is a reaction coming ftom a feeling of betrayal and loss in trust. Probably unjustly grouping you up with Karel and the moonbois and pump and dumpers his crypto project invited.

It's very difficult to try and discuss anything with you in good faith if you're going yo act like that.

Tell me in 1 sentence what's the point you can't get across?

That without Karel managing funding there wouldn't have been a Neos?

Also don't act as if you weren't baiting with that comment. I was quoting that and writing something else.

Then don't expect anyone to take you seriously or react the same way when it comes to you.

None

Hello everyone, unfortunately neos vr freezes up and takes a while to load for me and keeps not responding and responding again

who asked? 😐

I thought you didn't like NCR? What are you buying it for?

Do you think Froox will remain in that dev team?

How would you propose NCR have been "handled"? (I already know your response will likely be to just copy linden dollars).

Look, if you have an asset on a free market, it's going to be open to speculators. NCR is, by design, open for anyone to buy and sell it. That's how its supposed to be. I don't know what thought experiments you have in your head where you can play financial director and restrict buying and selling to "prevent speculators and greed", but it just doesn't work if you want people in Neos to actually have freedom. You have to just accept this is how markets work, and it's fair.

Or maybe you wanted it pegged to something? Sure, just get a couple dozen million dollars and put it in a reserve so it can be pegged to a dollar and then hey, no one can speculate on it!

The thought that has never entered your head is that if someone speculates that NCR could go up and they buy it and it does, they deserve that benefit. If the opposite happened, who is going to bail them out of their losses? You? Froox? That's right, no one.

Most of the thoughts about these subjects seem to come from kids who have intellectually bunk ideas about how markets work. Their opinions on this stuff comes from their emotional whims and anger. And further it's moot. NCR was already sold to people. It is already in people's hands. It's alittle late for your college sophomore ideas about greed and capitalism to be utilized so you can play with people's lives from the comfort of your armchair.

Good then you can stay using Karel's project and everyone parts ways and is happy. Or maybe he pulls something off, and it gets really big but I highly doubt that.

And yeah, I agree with you about the lack of empathy.

Whenever I had to interact with the neos team, I've always wondered what the hell is with this cold distant yet undue arrogance they've always had and it boils down to lack of empathy. Anytime you interact with them it's from a place of them trying to lord their persona and position of power over you.

Or even worse than that, like stunted intelligence that makes them unable to have empathy outside of the insular group they benefit from, which, frankly, is how my interactions with most furries feels. If you're not playing along and looking how they want, they lack the ability to have emotions with you. And I believe that's extended to the treatment of the NCR outsiders and this push that anyone who had NCR is a greedy speculator, a pump and dumper, whatever stupid buzzword they heard for the first time during 2021.

any other one-liners you'd like to use to sum up a person? It's obvious people really don't have much to go off of when they've built up these grand opinions of the man

well damn, maybe they didn't need to have this stupid war with him, they coulda just waited for him to retire

Yes it's too late to do anything to change NCR. It can exist as a separate entity and no one is obligated to use it.

My main gripe about it is the buybacks being the opposite of what was promised in the whitepaper.

Karel has said there are plans to use fiat in the marketplace, so whoever doesn't want to touch NCR can use that on the Steam client.

Another negative with NCR is that many people using it were unaware of the inherent volatility risk and got burned. Also the bad rep crypto brings with it.

But generally I agree it's too late and wouldn't be fair to change how it works now, or it would have been sold under false advertisement.

Seems clear as day: "I want to retire." He made his amount, enough to be happy (which, to be fair, yeah), and now wants to stop. I think it's dumb, but that's my piece

well afaik Neos was like a 7 year saga for Karel (I think?) I can't blame him for wanting to be doing something less stagnant. And when he said that this being around the height of him manually processing NCR transactions which I imagine would make anyone feel like an old man after some weeks

If you didn't like the buybacks than many the team shouldn't have been directing all displeasure from the platform onto their own currency, PURPOSEFULLY trying to tank it which caused Karel to step in and exchange ETH for NCR.

I may not agree with the buybacks, but I understand them and actually find it a responsible reaction.

It wasn't the NCR holder's fault this stupid, stupid, idiotic dumb childish selfish drama was going on.

I didn't mean separate entity in that way.

I meant it as just another type of currency that can be used to buy stuff in the Neos marketplace.

My initial reaction for NCR being made 3rd party, despite my current distaste and doubt in its viability for trading, was that that would mean that Neos sold it under false advertisement.

And that you'd have yo get a refund in that case.

And that's another part of the misinformation, in that people seem to believe that if they let the funds sit in there, ETH would have magically kept its full value during this whole drawdown. ETH lost 80% of its value since then. That's the main thing that reduced the wallet's value

hmm... reread it. Still standing on that Karel, at the time of writing, wanted to distance away from Neos. If he's complaining that doing "push transaction" is somehow hard, either automate it or quit complaining. People work the crappiest of jobs just to make ends meet, and here's some ~30 year old (thought they were younger, but oh well) saying "This is toooo hard." Like really?

And I don't expect any of the team members to have the ability to be forward thinking and not be panicking and filling their diapers over seeing wild swings in emerging markets.

so... in short... NCR as a currency for buying and selling... isn't that great because it's value can fluxuate so hard, it can be worth paper the next day?
I mean, it's a based on on a based on currency.

I disagree that someone purposefully tried to tank NCR, but even if they did it just shows how volatile and unusable it is for an in game trading economy if a little FUD has that effect.

I mean... that's one way to sell it "Hey, we want to support creators: Here's digital money worth less than the electrons that set the bit values."

I agree. They could have or should have. I partly speculate that by this point the well was already poisoned and Karel saw legal action on the horizon. He'd maybe rather have the wallet aid the NCR holders whom he felt responsible for drawing into the mess, rather than letting the devs trying viciously to out him to potentially get their paws on it.

well... it hasn't been a year yet so... mostly all just short term stuff I'm guessing. Not as bad?

He should have cashed out all the ETH to fiat and funded development as stated in the whitepaper. That didn't happen.

I mean that works both ways, and that's inherently a part of it. If it fluxuates (like real currencies do) then that could atleast be acceptable or even fun. NCR should be, in my opinion, part of Neos' texture, an interesting topic as it shifts, and something that's fun to tip to other players and draw them into caring about the economy of an actual metaverse.

Well you seem unaware of how the events played out, because the moment he got this massive windfall, it's the moment this self-destructive drama started.

So... more like 2016 Doge with slightly more value?

And it's not like checks were withheld. Go ask the Neos team: they refused to send invoices after this period because they'd rather have their shot at outing karel.

And many of them wanted the ETH. What did they NOT want? NCR.

Says alot when your devs don't even want the company's native currency and want nothing to do with it. It's almost like they planned on dumping it

Well, maybe its a gamble. I don't know the status of the wallet currently, but within a few years it's not unfeasible that whatever ETH is left in the wallet will be worth 3-4 times more than it is today.

I'm not going to try to justify the use of those funds though

I simply don't know what he is planning

What are those?

I guess airdrops or something

thanks for telling me

I wonder when the ETH was turned to USDC

yeah I guess I'll bother to look

sometime

Well, well done I guess, in that move

How much NCR do you think the Neos Team had collectively for the dump to even matter?

Isn't it disingenuous to claim some are dumping NCR, while others are selling it, if everyone owns and has earned said NCR? It's their currency and decision what to do with it.

I don't get your narrative with this. It's natural for everyone to sell at the highest price or they are left holding the bag.

The only problem I see is when someone speculates or manipulates the market artificially.

Most had the max amount of CDFT, so they'd have had at least 32k NCR

The way I see it it's not a natural case of supply and demand as would have been the case if NCR was to ever be used in a future Neos in game store, or for payment of services offered.

They are counterproductive.

I never said they shouldn't do whatever, I just think it's funny that they were hostile to the coin their community was stuck with while they had the luxury of selling before they would go on to make damning statements.

and I've had friends of the devs slip to me that they basically already knew well before march 4th that the team would announce their intended effort to drop NCR

it's not just gold names that had that benefit, but whoever theyre sleeping with or rubbing shoulders with in VR too

Because of different use cases.

There are those from the outside markets influencing the price through speculation.

The in game market wouldn't be feasible with the fluctuations in price because of the speculators and any value wojld have drained out of the in game economy.

That's my take.

OK guys just come exchange your USD for something worth less than a USD

and it's fucking bonkers you mention supply and demand, as if you can have such a thing without a free market

like just... I'd have more respect for your opinions if you just said you were a communist and believed we shouldn't have free trading rather than just talk about things you don't understand

So NCR doesn't make it extremely easy for whales to speculate and ruin the in game market?

that happens in all markets and is evident in how they follow cycles of accumulation and distribution. and if it's something new and generally illiquid, then yeah the swings are going to be much wider, because everyone has the freedom to take profits.

It's not all things are priced though... from the damn oranges at the supermarket to even NCR

whats the price of a corn cob? You think there's some agency that determines all of this stuff? it's priced by supply and demand, and to have that you need to have a free market... and if you have a free market that means its anyones right to be able to participate in it, which means speculation can happen...

that's a goddamn right, not a sin.

Smelling like Hayek over here

can we please move past using "speculators" as a buzzword?

lets go with "neos is my little political playground" and start talking about fell-good intellectually bunk rules about how we can eliminate greed from our furry market

Or lets just never move past second life and forget the whole ambition of ever having an open metaverse

I'll stop arguing about how NCR functions not being ideal. It's already been set in motion and won't change anyway.

What I'm curious is why you guys think it being the default Neos currency makes it any different from any other coin?

IMO everyone who's not using it to hold long term or play the market, isn't going to have any use of it in the Neos shop if they can't instantly convert to something more stable.

What does NCR actually gain by being linked to Neos other than fooling people unaware of the risks using it to loose money and thus bad publicity?

I'm not going to make your arguments for you, but presenting laissez faire capitalism the only option alternative to gutting the general economic activity of the platform is kinda silly. It only takes like two minutes of thinking about consumer protection as it exists /now/ to put the lie to that notion.

NCR is just an alternative to traditional currencies, no one is forced to use it.

The idea is that it's native to the platform and it's something that can be used ingame. Like if I wanted to give you an NCR because I liked your avatar, I could tip you, or other potential things like hoping someday we could have a real casino or have games with actual stakes. Things not really possible by choosing one local currency.. And even if it was I like to consider the metaverse needing its own inherent currencies that aren't (directly) influenced by country boarders, real-life policies, etc.

The assumption was also that NCR would grow alongside Neos and gain usecases over time that the devs would support, and that NCR users might be exempt from certain transaction fees, etc. Things like this were discussed before it was embroiled in the cofounder drama and recent crypto-cynicism. Obviously, our devs chose to capitulate to the pressure of current cynicism.

From, what you say, the endgame is always risk and someone losing money, and although there are risks with these things, it should be clear that no one should be putting significant net-worth into it, or if they choose to they are accepting that risk. Because I don't know about you, but I would rather be given that choice than be told it's not my right to do that even if I want to. And that might be the thing worth discussing or disagreeing on.

Whats your alternative? Because I think if you extrapolate it out, it'll always turn into a need for a corporation and setting into position gods to "protect" us... and that's against my thesis of a metaverse.

I'm going to sleep.

I generally agree that pervious promises of NCR's in game use should be kept, even if I doubt many would risk it if they were aware of how it works (there should be a warning about fluctuating value).

I'll wait for / announcementsto see what the final outcome would be.

So I'll try not to bother you since I got your perspectives. Thanks for discussing this.

well, thanks for being kind and listening to be blocks of text, I appreciate your thoughts on it

NCR was always going to have massive issues as a currency regardless of how the market responded to it or really how it was managed after the genesis contract. It is and was a naive solution to a complicated problem and even a trivial survey of other digital currencies highlights the complexity of the problem space. My alternative is: don't roll your own shopping cart much less your own currency. When you absolutely must roll your own, don't for the love of god make it some immutable economic model that you literally can not adjust to address emerging behaviors of a real market.

I can respect the desire to make those compensations algorithmic to decentralize the control of monetary policy, god help you. It's not the direction I'd go, but that is at least interesting. Giving a DOA control of the tokenomics would also be interesting. Practically any solution that isnt a hard cap on supply would at least be a solution that I'd be comfortable experimenting with.

But if it was up to me entirely I'd just find few payment processors that accepted a wide variety of payment options and go for that. It's one of those problems that, if it's not your product's sole focus, it's just not something I want to touch. As soon as you are even managing an internal token with /any/ degree of float, I want to see an econ major on staff, preferably more than one.

You laugh, but do you honestly disagree?

What point are you trying to make? I honestly couldn't make one out from your post

Also, Hayek has more intellectual weight in his pinky than the entire discord combined

Y'all like banging on the drum of bringing Neos out of the realm of a hobby project, but you're comfortable with a home rolled payment solution?

I'd honestly be fine with some weird, interesting algorithmic stable or DOA controlled internal token as an extension of the very hobby project mentality I bring to the table. I like fucking around and finding out.

But seriously pushing the marketplace as a viable professional platform with like, how much project time put into handling payment? Kicking the on and off ramps to the 'out of scope' pile?

If we are serious about courting a professional market NCR should have been managed like it's own product, with it's own team, leveraged against similar solutions from the onset.

Founder of the Austrian School of economics, very influential to Thatcher and modern conservatism.

Typically contrasted against Keynes

I mean, that's better tbh.

For me the marketplace as a place to sell stuff was never a major concern, the jobs board was though. I saw the marketplace as primarily a solution to discoverability, with the happy benefit that other people wanted to sell stuff on it and I'm usually on board for win-wins.

I agree the UX needs an overhaul. I want to see what the current completed overhaul looks like though. I don't /hate/ the world browser, and that was sort of the test case for the new design language from what I've been able to peice together.

I would like them to overhaul the UIX stuff in general though. I find it a massive pain to deal with.

I think I know what you are talking about. Like macOS's Human Interface Guideline stuff?

I would welcome a big fuck off bible of best practices for consistant platform UI principles as someone who struggles with UI design.

I did take graphic design in high school. It just never cleanly clicked. Frustrates me to no end. I even love reading about design, but I think I need that classroom environment to get the feedback loop.

But I've got to be that full stack unicorn or people don't want to put up with my bullshit :<

You are factually correct. I retract my poorly communicated joke attempt :)

Fair. Though I do kinda need to do everything at least a bit. Comes with the unreasonable desire to make videogames.

Geenz writes like a melodramatic cringelord teenager 😂

Absolutely no one is putting yall up on any kind of pedestal - quite simply, we just think yall are a bunch of narcissistic, disingenuous, spiteful and toxic blowhards

If Geenz said he's absolutely not willing to work with Karel, isn't the only way forward to move on without Geenz?

Just being pragmatic here, not dwelling on the unfortunate situation like everyone else seems to be..

Yeah Geenz has said that, but also everyone else as well. Literally the whole team (except Andrea) has said they are not willing to work with Karel anymore.

hello

i have a problem

i wanted to rejoin the discord server but i can't because i got banned from it when my discord account got hacked a wile ago and spammed links

i can rejoin the server? my discord name is TheVirtualHusky evan#0081

@ProbablePrime /\

I see Geenz is sticking to the "let's pretend it's only random non-Neos users who owned a lot of NCR and not actual Neos users". I see he continues with the same contempt for the people that tried to help fund the project that he is working on.

Well my comment was in response to his recent comments. Other than that, no, not really. Not like there's been any other movement.

His posts reads as an address to anyone holding NCR

You're beyond infuriating Cyro. Read it, read what he said and keep reading it over and over until something clicks.

If you need help understanding why I have an issue with it, re-read it, but drop the first 3 words.

I swear to god Cyro. The initial address doesn't change the rest of what he says, which applies to everyone, regardless of who he claims he's addressing.

There's no way you're not doing this deliberately.

It caused me to lose any respect I had left for the team. For the team themselves to not respond with "Whoa, what the fuck? This request is way out of line" for such a big ask when it comes to pay. Apparently Karel is the only bad guy, was the rest of the team fine with such insane figures on a project with so little money and a tiny userbase?

It APPLIES to everyone, regardless of who he addressed. It's like addressing people with blonde hair outside in the rain saying "Some of you may get wet" when obviously the statement applies to everyone, regardless of who you're addressing because his comment is about the coin, not the people. Scope, understand it.

Is it pointless? From what I can tell, he was the lynchpin that has caused this entire spiral of events, He's the reason all the projects I have spent thousands of hours on are now dead, he's the reason the platform I was backing is now, as far as everyone I know is concerned, is dead and ah fuck it. You're so far up the team's ass that any conversation is pointless, you have absolutely zero objectivity.

This is what I mean. This is such a simplified take of what happened that it misses ALL of what was involved in this,

Disingenuous to the point of being almost an outright lie. Prime keeps fucking doing it too and it winds me up.

You think I listen to anyone in here?

I'm here mostly to vent because nothing is going to get me back all the money and time I spent in Neos. I'm angry beyond words, but people like you who act like the team are blameless make my blood boil.

Maybe because those points are right then?

I don't expect anyone on the team or anyone related to them to take me seriously anyway, that stopped being a thing long before I left the Discord.

I stopped trusting them and felt like they weren't taking me seriously anyway so, no loss there.

It'd also not be true, but sure, continue to bullshit me and pretend that I'd obviously know considering that I was working ON the content.

you sure showed him cyro

like wow what incredible ownage

He's not. He's just loud so people are talking about him, and he'll talk candidly so people are speculating on what he is saying a lot. I still remember when Nex was the 'lynchpin' because Karel 'fired' him and clearly that was the only reason Froox et al were upset.

There are no conveniently accurate reductions to this clusterfuck, just targets of convenience. Not that you can't be upset or feel dismissed/splashed/othered by people talking up their own reductions. I think it's valid criticism. At some point we are all going to reduce the situation to understandable stories and each of our perspectives is going to have blind spots and biases.

Counterpoint. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/992833864584138792/unknown.png

Also I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? It's a known fact that that team have been on strike for nearly 9 months now, *nothing* has been fixed during that time. So I don't know why you're showing my GitHub history of things being closed BEFORE that point in time. Development ceased in November 2021 and that's that. Issues since then have (obviously) been ignored.

Not looking currently looking at github or that list of issues specifically but it looks like most of those have several comments atleast so I wouldn't go with ignored. Sure due to other circumstances nothing has been done to fix them but as you mentioned and as we've seen near nothing has been released in the last 9 months. Only releases have been security fixes

Comments are likely from users or myself, not the team.

But yeah, the thing Cyro picked up on made no sense considering (when I mentioned it in the past, I haven't mentioned it recently, so also odd) it was in reference to the strike.

I read every issue. Lots to do, can't.

Moderation.neos.com for ban appeals

NCR will prosper far beyond just neos

It will be an insurrection

Why/how?

Generally yeah. I am slightly worried about this, though I couldn't find case law that was really close to this situation when I looked. The fact that no contracts existed at all makes the whole situation really weird.

Though the way I see it, the way that things end up going if the IP claims end up resting with Solirax and if both sides are willing to go scorched earth, we're probably looking at a judicial dissolution.

Odd, I remember Coffee mentioning having to sign contracts...

I think that was an NDA. I remember him talking about it too, though not so much the specifics. I would ask him to confirm but honestly his tme with Solirax is a bit of a sore spot and I'd rather not >.>

Agreed. Preferably MIT :3 :3 :3

I mean extremely valid. Dual licensing with gpl is also a good strategy if you want to be in a position to charge corporate clients for their secret sauce inclinations.

Yep! IMO don't roll your own licenses, crypto (lol, the phrase aged poorly [or did it]), shopping cart or timezone handling. XD

For closed source projects, you don't always have/need a license.

We just signed NDAs, these don't attribute any rights to any work.

What neos needed was probably some form of contributor license agreement. But they did not have one. That's different than a regular license such as MIT which was mentioned above. It's a document which says that an entity owns your contributions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement

That's why I said some form.

Additionally CLAs can be seen for closed source projects. I've signed a few.

Odd that Neos had NDAs but no code licencing.

Indeed it is

Either works, depends on the continent etc.

The model was weird from the get go tbh. I've not seen this sort of arrangement before WRT having quazi-staff. Like, takng external patches from a security researcher, yeah, but not in a way where like, there was any sort of expectation to work on a roadmap or have consistent contributions.

The better advice here being: Consult a lawyer in your location to determine requirements

Indeed

Cool, thanks!

None

None

Hello ^^

Hello

hello

Why has no one tried to design a meteverse based on traditional web browsing structure? What I mean by that is just a websight you can visit that sends your computer information for rendering a websight but it is a VR environment as apposed to just a flat webpage.

I have zero web design expirance so maybe I sound like an idiot... but I always pictured the metaverse as just websights you visit and maybe some of them host public multiuser sessions.

Mozilla did AFAIK. It was called Mozilla spaces? I think?

And before that was something predating even Second Life called Cybertown, back from the late 90s.

Why did Mozilla spaces not take off. Too early? Poorly implemented? No interest?

Not "cool" enough, it was interesting for nerds but wasn't anything amazing or "next gen" enough to really grab people. It was very limited and didn't allow for any really advanced or cool stuff.

Is this something that would be possible to create as an open source project? Or are we trying to build skyscrapers here?

I just feel like we are wasting time waiting for some company to build a product that is in the end just going to be a limited closed system.

It was part of the Mozilla foundation, so I'd assume it was open source but I'm not sure...

https://hubs.mozilla.com

I think this is Mozillas metaverse. I'm going to look into it's functionality.

A-frame and hubs by extention was an interesting project, though very limited. No IK, limited to webgl feature sets and three.js weirdness. Not great for complex environments or super interactive scenes.

X3D stuff is a bit more interesting to me these days, especially with the 4.0 draft.

When webgpu is a bit more mature I'll probably take another survey of the web stack.

If hubs is open source, could stuff like IK be community made? Or are there limitations that are just insurmountable due to, I guess webgl and three.js. I'm not sure what those are and how that effects the limitationa.

Edit: Did some basic research on what three.js is (Javascript) and WebGL. It says at least three.js has kenomatics. What is the weirdness associated with three.js?

You could get IK running by extending hubs, probably. Though I don't know what the overhead would look like in terms of the networking model. The weirdness associated with three.js is a lot XD one that I'm aware of is that materials are limited to 1.5 UVs (.5 because the second uv can only be used for AO IIRC) it's also limited to the WebGL graphics features, which IIRC tracks with OpenGL ES 3.0. it's a bit wonky

How many tabs are too many? :)

It seems like the big thing they are working on right now is blender integration.

Some of them look so confused lol

Most of the time when I attend meetings like that they assume I'm using a Snapchat style filter or I'm using pre recorded video

GitHub's new boards are great

As a product person, they're great for smaller teams but at the corporate scale GitHub project boards don't yet have enough features compared to say Jira ado or Asana etc

Just got back from my trip. There was also Janus, but I could never really figure out how it worked specifically. It can render regular web pages and if you throw another service on top, it can allow multiple users to see each other. I'm not sure how much further that was developed either...

I do know it had a webGL client, a bit like Mozilla Hubs, and it was lite enough that you could run it in a simple chromium panel if the VR platform supported it. It was pretty bizarre stuff at the time.

Hi, not sure if anyone would know of a component where it copies the location, rotation and scale of an object or bone. All I can remember is that it possibly starting with u

Copyglobaltransform I think it's in drivers

Transform drivers sorry

Ty

Still waiting for a response @malooniac in regards to private Dm a quick response will be appreciated thanks

None

If you want to meaningfully interact with us, please don't be so full of shit and disingenuous.

That's exactly what he said and it is mind boggling you don't see it and the childish maliciousness in his behavior.

Trust in the future of ncr a new order

FOR sure

None

What is the best way for me to contact someone who can help me with my account? My syncing has stopped and I cannot enter my Home world which said it was corrupted and recovered on restart.

The discord would be the place to find help, I guess. The link to discord should be on the website

Thank you.

Dana As a quick check though, you need at least 25GB free on your drive for Neos to work properly.

Enverex. Thank you. I have 100GB free and 40% of Neos 1GB free. My home world appears to be corrupted - and so I am stuck. Cannot save to inventory, cannot sync. Would you know of a specific person I could contact on discord for support?

There's a help channel on there which would be obvious when you join. That said, do you have anything that you wanted to keep or needed to sync that isn't already saved to your inventory? If not, you can delete your Neos local folders to clear everything.

Thank you. I cleared the local folders and I left a message in the discord help. My client is totally stuck - so I am feeling a little desparate.

But thank you for responding. I will just wait for a response on discord.

If you cleared the local folders then it shouldn't be trying to sync. Was it the Solirax folder in AppData that you deleted?

Yes. But it hangs on syncing. So something is messed up.

I think what @RealEnverex said is likely the case, the Neos litedb along with the Data folder contain your local home and cloud cache - if you relaunched Neos after clearing and did not re-enter the tutorial and did not have to login again, you may have left those elements on your HD

It's hard to corrupt the cloud home, but it can happen. You can also try resetting it by adding a parameter to the Neos launcher to block the cloud home from loading and setting up a new cloud home

The command line parameter is -DontAutoOpenCloudHome

Solirax\NeosVR\Cache is empty

Ah, so that's the cache. You'll find the Neos data folders under your AppData/LocalLow/Solirax/NeosVR

Deleting this content will reset your client back to the defaults so anything in your Local Home will be lost and any unsynced records will also be lost.

Thank you! I will make a copy of that folder, then empty it.

Clearing AppData/LocalLow/Solirax/NeosVR corrected the issues. Thank you!

worth pointing out, albeit a bit late, but you can also attempt to use "-DatabaseRepair" to attempt to let the client fix the corruption. I've had this only occur once, but the repair process was fairly painless

Saves the headache of having to go through the tutorial, login credentials, and folder navigation. Clearing out the appdata folder should really be a last resort

Always best to not delete those folders till you've tried all other steps

I just Googled the error and it took me to a wiki page

wow... lots of hostility... also, I was late to the whole thing.
https://wiki.neos.com/Database_repair

I just googled "neosvr corrupted database" and it was the first entry.

It took maybe... 5 or 10 minutes to run? It wasn't that bad and it all recovered just fine

...I'm sorry I even mentioned there was a better method...
Like, even something simple and constructive additions to topics are just shot down here.

anyway, I'll take the discussion of if the database repair function should be added to the FAQ elsewhere, since any further discussion here will be fruitless...

yeah. The issue is that the FAQ mentions "the client will attempt to repair it next launch" but I recall having to use the argument so... not sure if that is a bug or just outdated notes

ah okay, so automatic, with the argument as a fallback in case it somehow doesn't

Useless negativity only lead to suffering for all

Can't interaction on some case be used as plural like Status?

How replace player/modder?

Why remove player?

Who care discord tg better

Discord run by undesirables and criminals

Discord Staff

Aspekt for example work for discord

They have great benefits, but yeah, I'm not sure about their sustainability.

Same with telegram TBH. Seems like they are scrambling to try and monetize now.

lol - did the database repair first. It did not help. Cleared the cache next. It did not help. Deleting the app folder fixed the issue. I think the best thing I could suggest for Neos is to do a better job of showing errors in the client, rather than failing silently. My first indication of a problem was that I could not enter a world that I had been working on. No error - just failed silently. Next indication of an issue was that the client would not shut down - stuck on syncing. Still no error messages. I finally searched for and looked at the logs and just saw a security error. But the logs did not show the root cause. My theory about the root cause is that the database or an asset was corrupted, and that the repair process partially worked, but did not set some attribute of the world properly - resulting in a security error. The fact that the client was stuck syncing (with no timeout, or indication of error) shows that the syncing part of the code could use a little attention. Such as showing an errror, then continuing to perform other tasks with other assets, rather than hanging in an infinite loop.

Understandable.

The feedback can exist anywhere, for the team to actually keep track of it and consolidate issues they need to be tickets or github issues otherwise they easily get lost in chat histories

many db/syncing issues also sort themself out with a restart. But yeah I'd agree the client should have a better method to attempt to resync instead of halting all of them on a single failure

Absolutely, everything must be captured in a ticket. Chat is not a good place until much later - when a mature company can affort to monitor social media for key insights. For now, it is incumbent upon the users and the developers to keep track of issues using a system.

In terms of UI/UX - Fantastic products die in the marketplace all the time when their target audience becomes confused or frustrated. UI/UX is the interface to the users/market, and as such is often far more important to the success of a product than even the product features themselves.

At a larger scale, they would being having people specifically monitoring chats/social for issues and replicating or refining the issue and creating tickets instead

Developers tend to focus on what they consider to be "real" or "important". However, their perspective is often about what is "real" or "important" to the deveolopers! It is a meme/trope that developers typically design horrible UI's.

which does happen but it is done by volunteers or players mainly

For my company, I have created and maintain teams for monitorying social media, support, chat, etc. The tools available for doing this are very mature and quite easy to use. Once you get to a certain level as a company you really want to pay close attention to your users - they are the primary vector for improving your products.

Because there are existing solutions in place for an issue and the issue doesn't come up too often. it isn't high on the priority list. Considering it is dealing with saving and syncing inventory items, I think it should be higher up for a fixing. But at the moment it is at a standstill either way

Prioritization of what should get developer attention can be difficult at the beginning of a product's life. There is always too much to do in comparison to the size of the dev team. However, prioritization must be connected to the users. Their priorities must be used to guide the development of the product.

The users can direct the priority to a degree using 'reactions' on github or using the Priority Voting system

but just because it is at the top doesn't mean it is immediately the next thing. There are also roadmaps for planning out when things can be added based on prerequisite features

Yep. That is a good start. I was mostly responding to earlier comments about the low priority of UX. This could be an indication that dev is not sufficiently linked to user priorities.

There are just bigger issues to tackle mostly. They are well aware of issues.

Yep. The dev team likely has multiple priority 1 issues!

Or did

The UI you see now IS the overhauled UI :/

gathering feedback on thousands of items isn't feasible at a larger scale for a single or small hand full of devs. hence why tickets and gh issues exist.

They do create their own issues and discuss on them

I remember full body not working properly was a top voted complaint (and a thing a bunch of my friends REALLY hated about Neos) for literally years.

They do? when working on an issue any additional context needed or troubleshooting and discussion does happen. but expecting them or an unpaid volunteer to be doing this for tons of them shouldn't be expected. Esp. when several issues are made with enough context that it isn't needed for a fix

We can't see Patreon votes here and those have likely all changed now anyway what with a lot of people cancelling Patreon, but this is how the GitHub only voting looks, ordered by user votes. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/994630359478173867/unknown.png