- 02 June 2023 (62 messages)
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NCR hasn't changed inside of Neos, its usage in-game is the same and hasn't changed. -
You can deposit/withdraw, send/receive, and buy storage for your account.
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Technical roadmap https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/projects/1Major Roadmap · Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic
A public issue/wiki only repository for the NeosVR project - Major Roadmap · Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic
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Whitepaper for NCR stuff is available on https://neos.com/Neos Metaverse
Neos is a virtual reality metaverse that reinvents and generalizes the way social experiences and various virtual creations are built, to let them all coexist in one shared space.
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Not sure what you mean for VR, it already is a VR platform?
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Latest Announcements are in pinned messages here and posted in the #announcement channel in discord which is the main source for news for Neos
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I don't know where all NCR is currently listed. I think just Uniswap?
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I don't think they've announced enough on what VR runtimes it'll be using or what it'll support yet.
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You can read the previous conversations had in this chat. It shows everything you need/want to know regarding updates and neos -
WWDC where they will be announcing it will be June 5th-June 9th
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You can contact hello@neos.com for business inquiries, offers and discussion. This isn't really the place to offer your help in that manner
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Yeah, those details aren't entirely known. Though recently iOS's webkit project had had WebXR apis implemented. I'm excited to see what hall they intend to do. -
My only concern is the lack of Vulkan and OGL support, unless they reversed that. -
Unlikely.
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That might actually be a death knell to Apple's headset; pre-existing games might not be able to be ported due to graphical API differences.
Of course, this also means any titles made for the headset also might end up as exclusives, or take a million years to be done, like NMS. -
Do you know a single apple product that is built on open standards, affordable and aims to deliver to wide range of users and usecases? Like a marker killer headset? I dislike Facebook but that was one thing they did deliver. Apple? Never -
I expect that they will deliver a high res, super color accurate headset with every sensor that you can push into it, stylish designed to say "look i have money" that only works in its own "apple open vr" environment (joke writes itself) with an integrated app-shop and compatible to exactly nothing else. A toy that cost 3000$ or more for 600$ of hardware that will bring some apple users that lived behind the moon to VR, but only to the VR experiences that are expecially designed for "them". And obviously that is where its going to die a year later.
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Don't forget that you are allowed to fix it yourself, but you can't source the parts yourself.
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Without the EU forcing them to do that or use USB in their mobile devices, nothing like this would have even happend in the first place. And they still try to get out of it by making USB-Chargers with identify-chips so that the devices can tell if you use a charger by apple. "U no apply? I don't work! Help! Oppression!"
Meanwhile the rest of the device economy: "Sure, 5W charger is fine, but it will be way faster if you connect me to a charger that was made in the last 10 years. 65W? I sure, now it will go faster. 100W? I am sorry my battery can't charge that fast, can we talk about 65W? Great! Yea i do not care from what country or company you come, glad we can talk in USB protocols about that!" -
Yeah, but don't forget: being forced to use USB 'hurts innovation'
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That sounds about right -
while they ALSO put it on their uh -
laptops
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as the ONLY port other then headphone
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and their newer ipads
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Doesn't it only have one, though? 1 USB C Thunderbolt and the headphone jack? Getting off topic, but it has been awhile since I've even touched an Apple product so... *shrugs*
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Connects wirelessly over the most amazing Bluetooth upgrade you've ever seen that nobody else anywhere ever is allowed to use
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headphone jack is a requiment for me heh.
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I am definitely a wireless guy. Just wish the tech was a bit better
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bandwith for current wireless solutions is ass TBH.
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I think airpods specifically use some kind of crazy proprietary modified Bluetooth that has better bandwidth? Or something?
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Nah, it's all bog standard. the datastreams cap out at like 50 MBps. The airpods just use aac though.
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The 'true wireless' earbuds mostly are limited by the space constraints for their electronics rather than the protocol though.
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All of them absolutely suck if you want to get microphone input though. For whatever reason they've never bothered adding a high quality microphone input mode on pretty much any Bluetooth headset.
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So airpods are literally just bluetooth earbuds but 10x the price?
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The pros have a good sound signature. I mean, their engineering is good, but they are all dealing with pretty massive limitations.
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And it's not like they are in any way repairable. But, to be fair, I've been using this set of Soundcore liberty 2 pros for like 5 years so, depending on how you treat the batteries they can have a decent useable life. It just really grates on me, given I have headphones from the 70s that still work great but now that we've gotten rid of the basic I/O they require even the high end consumer headphones now all have rapidly depricating electronics in them.
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We live in a world where you've got to bring your own amp-dac to the table no mater how you cut it. So you get to choose between a conveniant, portable formfactor wasting a whole lot of money for not great sound quality, or you get a BTR-5 from FiiO and end up replicating the wired headphone experience on your fancy new smartphone :P
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though the mic input will always suck more than if it was just directly off the phone.
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That being said, the USB to Audio adapters have been fairly decent for my phone and laptop. It does suck having to carry another cable, but eh...
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None -
None - 03 June 2023 (19 messages)
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for me iv found that using AutoEQ(via Wavelet on Andriod) does help sound a lot for wired and wireless
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It is just impossible for Bluetooth to carry lossless Audio at CD quality -
So Apple would probably develop a kind of proprietary protocol over WiFi-Direct to connect those wireless headphones
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I mean, it can.
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CD audio, just the raw data stream, is 1.41 Mb/s. Bluetooth could carry that easy.
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The big question is more in the kinds of codecs Bluetooth peripherals support (adds licencing costs) and in the quality of the AMP/DACs you can fit in the space (engineering constraints)
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thankfully, that's been changing usually for the better overtime. If anything, to me, latency is the biggest thing I'd love to see reduced further, but for simple, casual use, a recent pair of "5.0" noise canceling headphones has become my new favorite traveling over the ears for my daily driving laptop
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The low latency codecs that are out there are a bit expensive to license.
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Mostly just AptX LL is in any signifigent deployment.
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yeah. Plus, if I absolutely need no latency... my headphones do offer wired operation (would have been cooler if it was over the USB C, but eh...)
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It really just depends on a lot of factors XD
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Long battery life for the true wireless headphones nessesitate ultra sensitive drivers, which need a super low noise floor in the amplification circit, which in turn needs to be well isolated from the digital mode circuitry, and all of that becomes exponentially harder the less space you are working with.
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If you listen to any true wireless headphone, you'll notice there is a low background hiss right before and right after sound is played. That's because they are actually fully turning off the amplification circuit to disguise the relatively high noise floor. However, when media is playing, you can still detect it, though it's obviously harder to make out when there is noise present. You'd need a track with very high dynamic range.
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Those sort of psychoacoustic tricks are necessary right now, and honestly, they probably are always going to be necessary just because you can't fully isolate the amplifier from the rf noise.
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https://us.soundcore.com/products/vr-p10-a3850z21 consider the existence of theseVR P10
Made for Meta Quest 2 Multi-Platform compatibility Seamless gameplay with <30ms low latency 2.4GHz high-speed wireless connection LC3 codec for fast audio transfer Simultaneous Bluetooth and dongle connection Thumping sound with 11mm driver and BassUp™️ Unlimited playtime with pass-through charging
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These are 100$ headphones whose whole gimmick is that they are only 30ms slower than 12$ IEMs you can plug directly into the Quest 2, no problem XD
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yeah. I mean, at 30ms, that's only like 4 frames at 120hz on a Quest 2
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The drivers used on those headphones are less than 2$ each, i guarantee. the miniaturization cost for the electronics and the marketing take up the primary budget. But there is literally no way that the chip they stick in such a small package is going to be more capable then even a 25 cent integrated DAC/AMP on the primary device. Which has to be there anyway to drive the internal speakers! :P
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I mean, I remember when I had my Win98SE USB DAC (one of those super cheap cheapos from early ebay days) on my Vive... and it was somehow BETTER than whatever HTC provided... despite using the same audio interface (sans the mic, which was the real reason I used it)
- 04 June 2023 (2 messages)
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None - 05 June 2023 (62 messages)
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for what purpose? the thing costs 3.5k -
not to mention, just because it has Unity support doesn't mean the other components will play nicely on a different architecture .
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I mean, ask anyone about how the beta Quest build works and you'll receive a CVS receipt-sized list of disappointment if you think it's as easy as 'change platform to Y'
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The quest build definitely """"works""""™
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Another Quest Pro bit?
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well its a headset that runs apps all examples was buisness use No usecase of using computer for compute power or running 3d games mostly just AR there is no controllers -
it would be useless to run neos since playing without controllers is well imposible
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Oh is the no controllers bit real? I heard whispers about that
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So is it basically meant as an AR headset rather than a VR headset?
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This is not correct
https://youtu.be/TX9qSaGXFygIntroducing Apple Vision ProThe era of spatial computing is here, where digital content blends seamlessly with your physical space. So you can do the things you love in ways never before possible. This is Apple Vision Pro. Learn More: https://apple.co/43DmFHf Audio Descriptions: https://apple.co/441jo4j 00:00 Introduction 01:35 Photos and videos 02:41 Entertainment 03:38 Work 04:21 FaceTime 05:39 Design 07:09 Technology 08:45 Ending “Let's Live” by FKJ https://apple.co/FKJ "Want Me Anyway" by Aye June https://apple.co/AyeJune "Transmit" by Fyfe, Iskra Strings https://apple.co/FyfeIskraStrings "New Horizon" by Little Dragon "A.I." by Hark Madley https://apple.co/HarkMadley "Waves" by StayLoose, Lucy Daydream https://apple.co/StaylooseLucyDaydream "Free" by Bakar https://apple.co/Bakar #AppleVisionPro #WWDC23 #AppleEvent Welcome to the official Apple YouTube channel. Here you’ll find news about product launches, tutorials, and other great content. Our more than 160,000 employees are dedicated to making the best products on earth, and to leaving the world better than we found it.
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it casts / displays and handles input not remote allowing the send a game
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allready poking through the new ar kit
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its mostly meh
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vive flow but expensive
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To be fair, working with AR screens is pretty nice, though I don't own an AR capable device just yet. I've only done demos
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With audio off that commercial is very slow and boring, wow. It's like stock footage
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id probs just get a quest pro if i was going to do that
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At low latency I can totally see it. Sometimes I'll use my mouse and keyboard with the steamvr overlay and even that's kinda neat even though it's bulky
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Yeah. It's been on my debating list as an upgrade to my older Q1. The Q3 looks interesting, but I dislike the lack of eye tracking functions, which I feel is more important as a step forward for VR functionality
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I mean, I do that a bit in Neos with floating displays in VR and my keyboard or controllers tracked in VR. So... Augmented Virtual Reality?
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AR in VR > AR in RL oops
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quest pro has eye tracking so eh
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but q3 was a consumer based
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I know; just feels... strange to not slowly push eye tracking to a consumer level, especially with AR functions.
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be a based consumer
go consumer based -
None -
My current concern is if people are jumping into here hoping for an Apple update. If memory serves me well, there hasn't been a Mac build of Neos since... never? I know the DK2 had a Mac library, but I think that was discontinued once they went commercial with CV1.
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People jumping into here? Just to ask for an update? Surely you jest. Such a thing could never happen here
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heres my opinion on it https://twitter.com/xLinkaVR/status/1665820363748524037Link
My opinion on the Apple Vision Pro is that its just a Varjo-XR3 competitor in the workplace and not a VR gaming alternative, Also you wouldn't download a Headset Would you. #WWDC23 #APPLEVISON #Neosvr #Neos
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There are two things that i took away from Apple's announcement: the first is that they are right, controllers suck. The second is they better have some distinctly magical hand tracking tech.
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In either case, it means that we probably should be putting a lot more thought into hadtracking in xr enviroments.
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the lack of an ability to interface with neos from a direct manipulation interface is actually a pretty serious weakness.
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Agreed. It would make things a lot more immersive with hand tracking -
There is a generic input device support
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And it supports open vr, so if the creator of the headset would care it would not be required for neos to do anything
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But yes, yes, i know, apple never follows any open standards, that would cut into their ability to control the user base. I am just saying it would be possible.
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Does it? I haven't been able to find anything definitive on OpenXR support.
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It does, i have tried it with 2 headsets where i can't even remember their names because it was so complicated
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The only thing I have in OpenXR support's favor is the existance of WebXR suipport in Ios's browser, but that's a jump.
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one from china and the other one from... a cheap bulk selling website without any marking of a company
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worked both based on open vr with steam and as a result with neos
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AH, I misread. I thought you meant the apple ehadset had OpenXR support.
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Yeah, if apple supports the openxr standards then porting will be easier, but not automatic.
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ios doesn't support opengl, dx, or vulkan. at the minimum we'd need a Metal translation layer.
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well, it was already expected that apple would purposly not support any open standard, so they can "customize the user experience"
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or to translate it in plain english "we want to tell our users what they can do with it"
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Doesn't pay for us to poopoo the headset just because. At the very least we know that Apple will be supporting WebXR, which is an open standard.
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Doesn't mean we'll see an effortless route to native APIs, but that's never guaranteed.
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how to say this in english... putting the cart before the horse?
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Yes perhaps webXR can be missued and tricked into working for a native application, but any try pressing a function that isn't meant to be used for that into doing what you want, there is always a price
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If there is no native support, this will always work less well then any other headset. There is no point in paying 4 times as much money if it works worse
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Even with the browser overhead, that SoC is faster than any stand alone headset on the market.
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Might not be the case in a year, but the value proposition is pretty clear. Apple is bringing apple silicon, and that has been consistently the category leader in performance.
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You can only hope so, i mean you pay the price of 3 full fledged computers for it. It will still not excel at that task because of the overhead. And more then that, frame rate and reaction time is more important for a VR headset then any other medium.
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Because of our stupid brains.
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But yea, we will see if people get around the purposeful placed limitation to use the hardware they buy for what they actually need it for... what a joke
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One big takeaway is their take on what to do with video calls. Their ability to quickly snapshot the user's face, then use the sensors to replicate the features is a massive milestone that even Meta could learn from
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if there's one thing that I begrudging can say about Apple, it's that they're perfectionists, so whatever they have working, 9/10 it's pretty smooth in operation
- 06 June 2023 (4 messages)
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None -
almost a haiku there
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Karel active?? - 07 June 2023 (2 messages)
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None - 08 June 2023 (1 messages)
- 09 June 2023 (1 messages)
- 10 June 2023 (2 messages)
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None - 11 June 2023 (6 messages)
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knowing Apple, the performance for gaming will be disgustingly awful in whatever OS it ships with. and terrible drivers -
well... despite it being an AR system... it's going to have Rec Room at launch...
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why is that surprising? Rec Room with its pre-defined avatars and low res worlds is the perfect example if you don't have much resources to work with
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... like with 3500$ hardware of course
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Well its more MR, than AR really. Since you're looking at the world through cameras
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I love how they didnt use the word VR or MR a single time xD
- 12 June 2023 (26 messages)
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Spacial computing is an interesting way to brand it. I'm not necessarily opposed, given that VR doens't have a huge amount of focus on transitioning traditional compute tasks into 3d. If that's their way of signaling a focus on the computing side of things I'm all for it. However, if it's a locked down platform akin to iOS then it's going to be a bit disingenuous IMO :P
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especially when other ones just say "Whatever date you pay is the day you pay the next month."
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Patreon has several billing models, each creator has some amount choice on which they use
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was there even any notice for the change?
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charge up front and then on the first was what was being used before. looks like they changed it to the new subscription option with charge on the day they join then recurring on that day next month
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Not to my knowledge, any existing patrons wouldn't really be affected by subscription billing either. It'd continue on the 1st of each month.
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It also appears it isn't something you can undo when you switch to it as a Creator. (since you change when patrons are paying)
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Patreon Subscription Billing
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
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That doesn't appear to be the case anymore? Signed out I see "You’ll pay $12.00 monthly on the 12th."
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To my knowledge it has just been the charge immediately and then monthly on the 1st. and at some point recently that was changed it seems
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it wasn't changed to it. I don't think that is actually an option either
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Not sure then? sounds more like a patreon bug if it is supposed to be on the subscription thing now?
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I do agree that system is kinda dumb though because really no matter when you sign up on it you will always either need to wait the majority of a month for storage to be applied or be double charged in a short timespan.
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assuming whatever service runs that remains active.
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None -
Hi everyone, I’m Batis. A big fan of NeosVR. I was told I should come to the telegram to try reach out to the C-level team. Can anyone help me get in direct contact? I want to talk about a business opportunity and investing.
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You can contact hello@neos.com for business inquiries.
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Tried that but had not heard back
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That is where Karel would handle business inquiries.
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There is no other way to contact the c level. -
Ok thanks guys 🙏
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And just like that I've learned a new term. "C-level"
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I dig it
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agreed
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I don't because c levels are bs
- 13 June 2023 (26 messages)
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It's a very corpo term
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None -
Hello
I am graphic designer ,my services include creating :
New logo
Telegram Customized static sticker
Telegram Customized animated/moving sticker
Gif
Banner
And promotional videos
Kindly reply if my service is needed -
for any business inquirie, contact hello@neos.com
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None -
Hi 👋🏾 guys
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hi
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Good good 👍 and you
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I am fine, but work awaits
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I have never done that, but isn't there a receiver-address in the game?
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Well, in that case its in the stars when it happens.
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Beside here? I mean you already pinged him. Pretty much all we can really do.
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I mean Karel is often a bit unresponsive and we don't know what he is currently doing, but he will do it sooner or later. Kind of not what you want to hear in that case, but its the truth.
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At least until now, things got at least done, after some time.
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hello@neos.com is the official communication method
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Yeee
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See? Ping worked ;)
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:o - 14 June 2023 (12 messages)
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None -
hi, can I ask for help here?
trying to play on SteamVR Linux + Proton 8.0 with Index controllers, fingers move as expected, but the "grip" control does nothing; I can't pick up objects, scale or anything for some reason -
tried with SVR stable (broken) as well as 1.14 and beta, same behaviour
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People will be more knowledgeable about that set up in the discord, I might try there.
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you may get more help if you ask on the neosvr discord
did you try checking legacy controller bindings and see if grip is bound? -
I choose to avoid that platform, but I will consider it--
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I'll give it a try, where do I choose that?
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Understandable. We really should have a matrix server.
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enable developer options in steamvr settings then go to the controls section (i think)
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awesome, noted, I'll give it a try tomorrow
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I actually haven't tried SteamVR linux in quite some time. How improved is it?
- 15 June 2023 (9 messages)
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it isn't... >->
1.14 is still the only version without graphical glitches but it's ancient and has no overlay, although for the purpose of Neos, all versions are fully featured.
that said, SteamVR is yet another project that Valve initially did well, but ruined over time -
from limited testing though, despite near flawless performance of Proton in most cases, not all games work (embarrassingly, Half-Life: Alyx fails miserably)
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None -
?
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Its german about an offer for a game
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You can google translate it
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I'm just annoyed when I get out of work, I have to update my dumb tome I made last night that summons AI Jesus's Twitch stream, since it just got restored.
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The same AI jesus that was blessing the peoples Taco bell Tacos?
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Link
Since it won't work anymore, here is a demo video I made a few hours before the stream was terminated by Twitch. The timing with the stream and the spawning of the tome was perfect. #NeosVR #ask_jesus #AI
- 17 June 2023 (3 messages)
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None -
None - 18 June 2023 (6 messages)
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He's probably using the money for a fat juicy vacation rn, no white paper for this time being until he's back
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None -
None - 19 June 2023 (12 messages)
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At this point, I am expecting little from white paper.
Maybe surprise with development restart or new ceo, otherwise, the situation is clear now. -
Only facts and speculations
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Hey when can I expect to hear back Karel ?
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... how should anyone be able to tell you?
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🤷♂️trying to reach the neos email for a while
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he's busy liking elon's tweets lol -
🙁
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I wonder if he's on vacation, I pinged him about something last week and haven't heard back -
100u one, waiting for you -
What info?
- 20 June 2023 (10 messages)
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Nope
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Prepare for new platform x3
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We still cant be sure our progress would be possible to transfer to a new platform
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I'm just busy planning for the more likely situations. All involve a lot of work. But I still develop new ideas and systems.
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bwah. still much to do, what to worry about..
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There are programs on GitHub to be able to save your entire account locally
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Includes your inventory and any cloud vars
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GitHub - GuVAnj8Gv3RJ/NeosAccountDownloader: Downloads your Neos account to your local computer.
Downloads your Neos account to your local computer. - GitHub - GuVAnj8Gv3RJ/NeosAccountDownloader: Downloads your Neos account to your local computer.
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I would need to modify that for me. Much of what is on cloud for me are media files
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I have backups in general.
- 21 June 2023 (36 messages)
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Have both cofounders given up here? Can the community takeover?
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that was the idea of creation of earth.
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Not much for the community to "take over" given the source code isn't available
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it should grab it? do you not have all of the the show on a plex server or somthing anyways?
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Thats the trouble. Yes it would. Download hundret of gb
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Of what is only some gb relevant (not media files)
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Give it time, froox would never give up his child^^
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I kinda see it like the UAC Update from VRChat. There was/is no better alternative so that people can switch to other platform and if it was the case with Neos -> they would have kept updating it. But since theres probably an awesome alternative, that is being developed secretly -> they work silently on something new
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but yes, considering the things that froox learned over the last 10 years and the small problems in many parts of the project, i bet on a re-developed project under froox
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would solve pretty much all the problems. The code that is owned by the company that can't be taken, would no longer be relevant and froox has the rest of the developers under him, so...
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to make it clear, i have absolut no insider knowledge, its just what i would do (from the perspective of another developer)
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I mean, if the project was dead - the devs wouldnt say that the solution is being worked on, right?
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Especially when those words come from the dev team, not Karel
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there was a lot of movement in the last month. New company for example. Lets just wait a bit more. Considering we waited years by now, i can wait another half a year to see what comes out of that.
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Disappointment is a feeling I have as standard for it right now x3 Would love to be positively surprised tho
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But could the community takeover? I would love to refinance Neo and help make it great again
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this is what I was emailing the team about
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I remmeber there was a twitter fight a long time ago but didn’t think this means everyone is stuck
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It honestly feels like tabu for the current owners to touch anything Neos related. Froox is working on something else. Karel is building other businesses, etc. No one is touching Neos
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What projects are they doing?
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So confusing! Neos is such a great platform!!
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We dont know xD
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Through theories and some data mining we speculate the creation of a new platform from Froox.
Through social network of Karel we saw him creating his new business CyberTaxi and using the money invested in Neos for his private purposes. -
None of them want to say anything regarding Neos or whats going to happen to it, neither do they say the reason why they cant/dont want to say it
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Thats not how it is. If noone is developing for neos (or very close to it) the programers would be no longer there since a long time ago, same for froox that is online every day in neos. Whatever they doing is very closely neos related.
For why it is tabu for the owners to touch anything, this is because of the impass in ownership. I know that karel don't want to hear the wording i use... divorce... but it is literally what it comes out of. Programming for neos is kind of like paying into a joined bank account. That works fine until one of the parties or both want a divorce and have a fight around this joined bank account.
As such, noone wants to pay into it anymore, as ownership is not clear. -
So its less about not making money/programming stuff as in not releasing as a joined efford, because it is not any longer.
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Can we not all buy this proposition together?
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to buy something, someone needs to sell something. If any one of the two owners would have sold even a single %, it would have been a tie-break and the sitation would have been solved years ago (thats an opinion)
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🙁
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None -
Ah I see. Yeah, if you modify it. Id be interested in seeing it.
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Irony, since Karel already admitted to wanting out, which I'm guessing are their shares being on the table.
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As every time, there is a big difference between saying and doing
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If there wouldn't, neos would have been back on track since years
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Well, he wants out, but there are investors, who invested in Neos
- 22 June 2023 (5 messages)
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after a year, I'm doubtful that any investor really even cares. Even then, if that was the case, wouldn't that be from his 50% or would it be a margin that pulls from both ends as their own pool?
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im just hoping that with whatever happens there will be a platform that offers the same freedom of Neos, even if its not Neos, i hope it is
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Looks like back to the chat mines *sadly puts on his mining hat*
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None -
None - 24 June 2023 (5 messages)
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None -
good morning all ^_^
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awa!
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I would love to propose a partnership with Swagga, a Metaverse play to earn server that I am a Collab manager for.
I am the Collab/partnership manager for Swagga discord server, and with your permission, I would like to tell you more about them and post their social links.
They have 66k followers on Twitter and 35k discord members -
business inquiries are to be send to hello@neos.com
- 25 June 2023 (6 messages)
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I'm still very confused with the business offerings. Like, do people who propose them even do their homework?
"Hi, yes, I have a great idea: let's propose a partnership with another company who has had zero updates over the course of an entire year and is locked in a disagreement. It'll be great!" -
I guess if you have to look busy, it works, but still.
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They're jeets. Plain and simple -
I learned a word today. (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jeet if anyone else is confused)Urban Dictionary: Jeet
In crypto trading, someone who sells pretty much no matter what. One or two red candles? Expect jeet panick selling. Also known for selling at a profit so low that it doesnt even cover the tax, and doing so for no reason. Generally there are two theories about the words origin: 1) Jeet = didja eat/ja'eat? Since they're always readily taking no or zero profit, perhaps because they need a dollar menu somewhere to sustain themselves. 2) Jeet = pajeet. Because they flood the group chats of all the tokens, ask if they should invest $10,000 as if they have $10,000, ask a million questions about the token and make demands of the developer, etc. At some point they quietly throw in what is usually an amount 100 times smaller than what they were talking about in chat...only to pull it for literally any reason in the world.
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(this appears to be use 2)
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It's like getting married to someone you've never met and are in the middle of a divorce.
- 27 June 2023 (132 messages)
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None -
I've never seen a project with as many people interactive as this, and it's wonderful.
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Bro, Did we List our Coin in Gemfinder? its Getting more Traffic. Could be helpful for us.
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*heavy sigh*
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I feel with you
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Whats the new company
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Community takeover would be great, thats why Neos has to be open source 👍 -
Hey can we discuss this community takeover Karel
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Would love to offer to fund the takeover and enable community to be owners
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Thats what open sourcing means, would definitely fund it 👌
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How would you build NCR price?
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A good start would be getting our shit finally together
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Collect it all and get it in one place so it’s together
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The CTO said that the code is his personal property for some reason and didnt share with new devs, didnt open source as promised either
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Were doing what we can but it isn’t fast for sure I understand the frustration very much
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Was it in the contract that the code would be a property of Solirax? Because if yes, then it's illegal to keep the code away from the Solirax
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I don't know how being open-source is some magic bullet. A project can only continue to thrive when it can stand on its own, but Neos is still in an incubator at this point,. Releasing the code for "the community" to improve upon will result in early splinters of versions that split the so-called community even further.
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In what contract? It was definitely assumed so by all parties as we founded the company together
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Im just curious if this can be somehow ruled by law, so theres no weird communication with either party having another party to ask/beg for something
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Open sourcing a project helps in that anyone can contribute and create Neos Cloud compatible clients. Right now noone is conteibuting. The data format is quite universal there is no need for fragmentation.
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Lol no I’m not starting a new company at this time, Cybertrucks are not even available at this time and probably won’t be in Europe at all (charging port housing too small to go from NACS to CCS, crash regulations incompatible)
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Hmm... the issue would be enforcing it, as the Neos Cloud does allow various versions to still connect, but not communicate between eachother. While it may be linked by a central system, it'd be fragmented by experience. A kingdom of only kings, if you will.
I am not saying it can't work if done right: Linden Lab has done this with Second Life, where the client is open source, but the server isn't. However, this was back when the major foundations were established and heavy rules were set about client experience differences. -
Sharing my private pictures acquired in devious ways is part of blackmail that is going nowhere
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Why would it be fragmented? Most people would use the best fork and there would be so much more people if Neos got improved
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Even the few moat popular branches would possibly have orders of magnitude more users that what we have now
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All could keep compatibility with Neos Cloud
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So basically new solirax devs are kinda waiting for access for neos github repository?
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Not waiting but it would help
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so sessions would operate similar to the plugin system now using the compatability hash to join same clients but different clients cant interop or as you call them forks or branches ??
since if a field type doesnt exist on one client but on mine it does and they try to load it while im in the world they will crash. -
Depending on what changes the forks would have, possibly that way
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honestly wish for a similar system to gmod like u join a server and the client proactively downloads and loads it keeping interop between all types of servers
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That'd... result in so many versions...
Yes, on paper and by clear logic, people should gravitate to the most ideal choice. However, as seen in practice around the world... this is not the case. -
looks at ss13...
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that's BYOND what I can even think of
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To be fair, what does it mather? It will not happen. If the two owner would find a solution togehter, it would have happend now years ago. Personally i think neos would die as an open source project, but i would love to be proven wrong by attempts to do that. But why do we talk about that now? Has something major changed? Or is it again wishful thinking?
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Theres almost infinite amounts of operating systems and web browsers and most people are using one of two or three. Noone is arguing of close sourcing them so its less fragmented.. market. Let devs and users find what works best.
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Why would Neos die as an open source project?
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Don’t see how. As long as Neos Cloud works it lives. On the contrary it would move forward improve and thrive.
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Yes but... web browsers all agree to talk on equal terms with HTTP and HTTPS. Neos isn't an established full protocol like HTTP, FTP, SSH, and so on, so even if the entirety of say the neosdb protocol was explained, it wouldn't matter too much.
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Neos Cloud Api would be published and developers would keep it compatible if they want to keep compatibility, don’t see how thats a problem
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Know what? I said it again and again, it doesn't mather what i think. I would be so happy if any split of the project would finally happen, but it doesn't look like it. Froox wants his child to develop and thrive, but obviously want to choose the way and does and continue its development himself. I have seen no sign of another group that has interest in its development so far, but if it exist, it would only mather IF the code is made open source.
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A company is not a marriage and exiting a company is not a divorce, code isn’t a child these shortcuts are very misleading.
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This is a run-around on a theoretical solution that is not happening. If it would happen, why now and not years ago? And if nothing changed, how we even talk about it?
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I know of many groups who would like to have access to Neos code and help develop it.
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Froox always shot the proposals down as he needs to be in control.
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This is not sustainable a thriving metaverse can’t be a one man work.
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It’s a complex piece of software and it has to have multiple developers.
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It is obvious that the rift between you and froox is bigger than any chance of you working togehter, ever again. But any solution would need for an efford to make this project open source, probably a redevelopment of any part that is not up to par for open source (like all the nice parts of the code that technically needs to be licensed)
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"if they want to" and... that's the problem: the moment it's optional... you can pretty much just split up the... what, 150 users or so?
Say even if the userbase went up 10 fold: the moment you even have two 'popular' flavors, that's roughly 750 users per 'platform,' even on the same system of resources. It'd still a splinter compared to the others made worse with micro splinters.
Neos isn't in the position just yet to have a split formed or made a possibility. In the future, when thriving? No issues, and it could absolutely improve innovation as anyone could hope. -
Any code that needs to be licensed doesnt have to be included initially
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Who would do that and why? Is there any sign of this happening or is it again just a cool idea?
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It most likely has, its like ripping out organs...
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Why would the users want a build that has that feature deleted?
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I see the code is a child and not publishing an unlicensed part of it is like ripping organs out 😂
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This is totally insane
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Ok this is a divorce and we are killing a kid makes sense jesus
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Its the reality of software development. You can't just remove every part you may need to license differently in most any case
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Problem solved
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You could publish it without and then either get the license or rewrite the part after whats the big deal?
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Its literally like baking a cake and removing ingredients after. Nothing is that modular. It needs massiv redevelopment that has to be done by someone, and noone currently does.
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Oh I see it would not fit in Froox is the good guy story
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Noone currently does BECAUSE the rest is not open source
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People would be on it next week otherwise
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Well... I could see a 'super' decentralized build being a thing, given the theming and all that. Something that natively used IPFS or such I could see being a replacement.
However, the larger issue is if other third party storage offerings were brought in, and such systems only work with those flavors. We do see this a bit with competing cloud services, and while APIs 'can' exist to bridge everything, it isn't an unknown issue. Not the most keen example, but more of the guidance towards the mindset, if you will. -
If one does look for problems you will find problems, I’m trying to look for solutions and open sourcing is a great one
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So lets start at the first point. I suppose as you make this suggestion again, that something major changed. You two finally got lawyers involved and drafted a paper togehter where you decide on how to make this software open source or sell it to one of the parties?
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As i assum no, this is a very nice fever dream again...
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What are you talking about
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Open sourcing is not selling
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You open source by taking the code and putting it on GitHub with an open source license
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hmm.... no. Being open source is no longer a selling point. It's more of just flavor text in the current market. It's basically become like how "the cloud" was the big, hip thing in the late 2000s.
It can help, but it needs something to build off of other than itself. As to what that is... well, I'll admit I am not sure I could give a solid answer. I'd say look at reviews from users and go from there? UI element complaints, strange stability issues on some systems.
Like: "Neos UI Overhaul and Establishing Source Under GPL" or whatever. -
Ok so our developers would ignore it and not work on it or what?
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Does not compute my man
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How do I put this: banking on the code just being available for anyone to edit, push, or fork, doesn't solve any of its issues. With too few users as is, on just the baseline system, even if 100% of all online users right now become C# coders overnight, it'd still change so little.
I know the GitHub has an issue tracker that is still, even to this day, updated, but not everyone realistically is a developer. -
It solves the issue of Neos devs not having Neos code. Outside of that it helps any third parties who want to help.
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Hmm... I guess I have the Red Hat situation on my mind, in addition to past ventures that were open source and heavily leaned on it as a selling point. Plus, without inquiring about such, I'm guessing many emails sent your way were also parties with an explicit interest in offering support should the availability be made possible.
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No most of it were groups that needed features added (most of them pretty universal and useful everyone would appreciate) and were willing to invest resources in improving Neos
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Lol what profit. We don’t even have money for last month Azure invoice 😂
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The money is in Neos Store of course
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Thats interconnected with Neos Cloud
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Do you think the Patreon model (not Patreon itself perse, but the paid storage model) could pay for the cloud or was that model not sufficient for funding Neos?
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Neos Store can contain anything that you can do in Neos - Avatars, Tools, Gangets, Worlds, Subscriptions, Tickets to Events, Services its almost limitless
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A premium Neos Cloud subscription can certainly pay for Neos Cloud at some point, but I’d be sceptical of it making any profit
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Funding and profit are two very different things. I was just responding to someoone thinking Neos is making a profit not sure on what exactly.
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Hmm... something that concerns me is that the Neos Cloud services are currently only protected due to the obscurity of the protocols it uses. If it's open sourced, say today by an absolute miracle, wouldn't a revision be needed to ensure people's assets remain safe, especially with talks about the store systems?
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No thats total bullshit, systems have to be secure by being secure not by being obscure
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You should need a password 😜
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You said continue to [making] profit, im just saying its not doing any profit
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Right, but that's the concerning issue: If someone has access to the cloud systems, granted with proper permissions and obviously a secure password to their account, what would stop someone from simply forking the equivalent of a site scraper?
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It's not all that obscure, in fact it's trivial. Currently the cloud cannot validate asset ownership or grant download rights for assets. Records are protected (to private/public/patreon/group access) which define the collection of assets that make up an item in your inventory or a world. To truly protect assets, some form of DRM would be needed to be able to grant licenses and protect downloaded assets.
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Thats a profit how?
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If someone has access to cloud systems it doesnt matter whether its open source or not. The api is pretty simple and you can listen to it already. Nothing changes
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Gaining securities or utility tokens that you are obligated to use to support another token holders if their price falls and may use part of it to fund development is not a profit.
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Profit is making actual money in a bank that get paid out to shareholders.
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Sure investments are funding as well but are not profit. The same way Eth mint is not profit.
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Exactly and Eth mint is not revenue thus not profit.
When developers have access to the code they should be developing. Many funds have been allocated with Community Developer Fund already. -
We first have to get things together market after, it makes sense after having Neos Store to be able to generate a profit
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You are asking if we are planning to add features to software we dont have source code for? 😂
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We’d like to. Have to get the code first though 😜
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Why wouldn’t I be allowed are you high?
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Seen an interesting point I wanted to reply to
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Implying I might be not allowed by who god? 😂
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This would be so funny if it wasnt sad 😄
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Yeah plan A is to get the code, next whitepaper states how, plan B is working around it
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What litigation? 😂
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You obviously have more information than I do
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remember frooxius is not the only person who works on the neos codebase, there are many who can and do contribute
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A guy didnt give us code he ahould thats it you making it sound like NCIS
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You were assuming there is litigation because?
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Soon my man, we are testing a few final systems ❤️
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Me too
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Few messages ago he provided an update
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None - 28 June 2023 (74 messages)
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with that name, sounds like a scam waiting to happen xd
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naaah nah, it's just one of the very human normal non crypto non scammers we get all the time in this chat
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What do you mean, bitcoin duplicator? How can such a name be a scam? I can tell you about how you can make 3000$ a month from home...
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I've already gotten spam messages earlier today from previous joiners.
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None -
gm
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None -
None -
Karel please provide update. Thank you. What is new cybertruck taxi company?
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See the updates above. You can use Telegram's search tool to view posts by Karel only.
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Deflection and claims of blackmail. Investors want update and information. Not a good look. Why in Dubai? Update?
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The apple headset isn't a VR headset. Different applicational use
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While Apple calls it a “spatial computing device” as an effort to differentiate itself from Meta/Oculus it very much is a VR headset with passtrough similar to Quest Pro and Quest 3. Minus controllers plus external display and hellishly heavy alloy body. It was too heavy on AirPods Max and will be even worse directly on users face.
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Lack of controllers shouldn’t be a problem for Neos as the hand tracking seems more than capable
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Meta/Mark is probably the biggest winner here as it makes VR headsets a legitimate category with Apple entrance making their lead so much more valuable and investments justified internally.
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I can agree with that, it certainly brings more legitimacy to their product by having at least some notable competition who's competing for some form of AR/XR
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I just wonder in the end how strong gaming will be on the headset
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They mentioned gaming, but they didn't focus that much on it
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Maybe even the most notable, it is after all the largest company in the world and one of the most recognizable brands out there
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But still, the $3500 price tag is a big pill to swallow, even for those who are already heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem. Time will tell on how well it sells
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Totally, they don’t have a fraction of the games available on Meta headsets they don’t want any attention on that aspect of things
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Hmm...
Maybe the best benefit is if a Mac build was possible (which, considering Apple insists on not using a protocol anyone else uses, good luck with that), the fact that Neos has both a Desktop and VR mode, with the VR mode being able to interact with the user's desktop, perhaps could have some weird hybrid utilization of the spatial functions? -
fair. I mean, we still have the mystical Deckard on the horizons, and who knows how that will play out, but will absolutely become a strong targetting point, considering the current userbase.
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The purpose is probably to start an ecosystem before its too late. i don’t think they will sell many either buy it will make devs do a compatible build or at least think about it just to be sure.
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Seems a lot like a defensive move to not let Meta rule it all that easily. Competition is good for users so very grateful for it even if I personally wouldn’t like to use it
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Totally, if they could do an Apple Vision headset made of plastic instead of heavy alloy that would be amazing 😄
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Love the separate battery though and apple silicon good moves there
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Seems like pluggable but not swappable
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Ok when sitting down, moving not so much
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It seems they are expecting that people will be sitting most of the time which is not unreasonable
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I think their solution for that would be a charger plugged into the external battery, so you can charge while using it and then unplug it so that you can move around. I don't think you would be able to swap the battery in that case without powering It off
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Hopefully a Nofio approach would be nice as well (2 USB C ports, which can accept power externally or with an attached pack, but at no point loses power)
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Why two?
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To swap with no internal battery?
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I see
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Well hard to see why you would need to detach the primary one if sitting and charging anyways
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People get tired fast so probably sitting most of the time it is 😄
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Totally, the real time avatars could become quite a killer feature once they get even slightly more realistic. Especially for people who wear makeup looking their best all the time with zero effort will be ultra addictive.
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It takes so much time/money to apply a high end one, you can scan it once and have it forever with no effort.
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