I still hold that a third party is the only real chance NCR has imo as split development on two versions of the code would be a development nightmare if Karel was to try to retain compatibility with the Main branch and beyond the technical hurdles, it would split the community onto two platforms which isn't a great thing.

I don't think a fork of Neos is the answer either. In the end it would need to be a ground-up re-write headed up by a long-time industry professional with leadership experience and a pedigree of delivering successful software projects. Somebody like a former senior engineer at Unity, Unreal, or Adobe.

Hopefully not unity as they don't have much experience with modern versions of mono /j

In the end I think Tomas walking away with Frooxengine and Karel walking away with NCR and any funds raised through it is a fair compromise.

I do think the funds should be split between the two as people did give those funds to support both Froox and teams vision and later some to hype NCR

Totally wrong

Who?

Selfish froox

Also could you elaborate on your thoughts, cause just saying someones wrong doesnt really leave much to talk about

If the current team doesn't want NCR involved I don't think they should be entitled to anything related to it including whatever capital was raised through it.

Again the current team is shit

Should leave

Karel is the man who can save neos

I don't really think that's fair because when spliting funds regardless of how they were raised should be also split between the owners as the intent behind the people giving the funds was to support the development froox was doing and some also for supporting NCR, this is why currently a lot of us have pulled out of ex patreon since those funds wont be going to support development currently

Why the devs feel so good for their outdated tech and such little users

Could you elaborate exactly what they are bad at, I'm assuming you mean the core Dev team so let's scope to that.

Then they think they control everything and post shit public

Neos isn't looking for mass adoption currently as it's still in heavy active development with UX/UI updates down the line and more, we need a lot more polish before mass advertising. Neos could have a higher playerbase but trying to get one now INDEV is not really a smart move as it would mostly turn people off of the platform

I agree but there's a little more nuance to it than that. It's not always as easy as taking somebody else's code and picking up where they left off. If Karel has the funding and resources to do a ground-up re-write I think it would be a good opportunity to learn from the shortcomings of Neos and improve upon it with a team of veteran Silicon Valley software developers who have experience writing and optimizing development environments.

Beyond their opinions what exactly do you see about them that is inadequate work performance-wise?

so is this talking about split?

but with 1 version + 3rd party NCR company?

It's all entirely hypothetical. Nothing is certain at the moment.

yep just wanna join the hypothetic

I think Tizzy, correct me if im wrong, is going for a hard split where Froox and Karel work on their own new projects with Froox retaining current code ownership and Karel retaining funding

I want a Funding split but am fine with the hard split software wise.

But i also think that this would hurt NCR and think for NCR a Third party solution is prefered since it would 1 Fast track a transaction api and 2 not split the community

3rd party ncr idea isnt bad idea.
But it will not happen cus that will leave Karel nothing.
Ppl say neos is Tomas's passion work, but then Karel has no passion or love for Neos? He only has love for crypto? I dont think so....

Karel isnt going to give up the rights to the code, why would he. And the suggestion that he would give it up AND pay froox/dev team for basically being kicked out of his own company is ridiculous.

I mean, you can clearly see his investedness into the NCR side of things however his actual participation in NEOS in person at least has been pretty sporadic over the years.

He barely ever got online and in the past months ive not seen him at all.

VS the team including the core dev team and Froox who i see online pretty much daily

222

TBH hypothetically assuming that Karel got code ownership, this also doesnt really help him as owning an IP doesn't get you documented code, so eitherway i think for Karel if he does want his won first party metaverse starting from scratch is the only option, but i dont think its good for neither NCR nor Community

this kind of opinion is like... non-business view.
neos is a business founded by 2 ppl.

The problem with 3rd party NCR is that it still remains beholden to Neos the platform which still allows for a certain level of gatekeeping. With the current team and userbase pushing back against platform growth I don't really see a situation in which NCR remains relevant enough to be viable.

and its not reallh Karel owning. Its Solirax that owns, and Froox still owns the code that way. Froox owns the code anyway

What my point is that Karel may be passionate about "Metaverse" and NCR but he doesn't really seem to have much interest in using NEOS himself, which isn't necesarily bad but can bring issues when it comes to trying to give directions for things like development, since from a dev standpoint you want your "product owners" to be knowledgable about the product.

well knowing code isnt needed for owners

The main point is that even If Karel can block work on current neos code he can not force himself to be given documented code for his new team to work on

Even if starting from scratch ends up the preferred option, IP ownership is much of his leverage right now. This is just more discord propaganda to try to suggest that Karel leaving and starting over with his own company as if the last 7 years didn't happen is actually somehow the best path for him. Ridiculous.

yep! so true

As i said, knowing the product, as in using it, he doesnt need indepth code knowledge just knowledge of how the product functions and works etc to give a clear direction

They just want Karel to disapear. like as if invisible.

nonsense and impossible IMO

I have multiple times stated that this is not the best option for him, I dont know why you are so hostile

Tizzy was the one who stated a hard Split as the option theyd prefer

I think if Karel wants to fully realize his original vision for both Neos and NCR, he needs to be able to grow a new project with full autonomy and the financial resources to materialize it.

I'm personally in favor of 3rd party

actually, whats best for each of us really differs.

If I just want NCR to recover, there's many different ways.... but it may not suit for Karel or Solirax or Froox or team members or Neos users etc.

Then NCR is worthless for the foreseeable future. The only reason any of us invested was because Neos was an actual working platform. In the event of a hard fork, what's left? A dude in Czech with a couple million in ETH that's behind Neos, Decentraland, Sandbox, etc.

As a by the way my offer from a month ago still stands to anyone who has not yet been in neos and would like an introduction I am more than happy to show things off within neos to people, theres a lot of cool stuff you can do in it

Honestly confused how you see that as a realistic option in these negotiations

forking a new project with the license of Neos would be compromise.

3rd party NCR means that NCR will only ever do as well as Neos - and if Karel has no control over Neos post-hard split, he has no control over the growth of the token.

This would require either open sourcing which is years out and the team most likely wouldnt agree to or a closed fork which I really dont think the team would give Karel the code and theres no legal way he could obtain it

The furries have clearly stated that they want nothing to do with NCR, Karel, or even crypto in general. You can be guaranteed that they will not be acting in the best interest of NCR even if it is attached as a 3rd party component - in fact I can see the opposite being the case.

I'm certainly not advocating for a third party solution. That's been the discord suggestion all along that's been soundly rejected by the crypto community. The best outcome for Karel is that he gets IP ownership, or at least a non-exclusive perpetual license, and then uses his funds to continue on in a separate project apart from Froox/devs.

There's a lot of us who are still saying that NCR support is a possibility and not a bad thing third party mainly since it opens up a Transaction API in general which is just a great thing but i can see what you mean

See the problem here is, owning the code and having the code are two seperate things

Like without having a documented copy of the source code ownership means just that Froox cant continue working on the sourcecode

Ownership/possession are likely to be resolved together as part of the lawsuit

You are not obligated to provide someone with a copy of the content they own Rights to

if there's a court order sure you are

Not necessarily the case. I think NCR could be migrated and the existing holders would retain their positions through whatever name and company the new token would be issued under.

The court cant order such, at best they could order access to company accounts such as twitter etc

Yes, it could be migrated, but that would be a brand new entity with no IP or product. That's an entirely different investment proposition than Neos, which, while unrefined, still has a working platform.

As an example if i have a copy of Mulan and for some reason disney wans a copy of mulan from me, they have no legal way of obtaining it

Agreed, but it's better than slowy sinking to 0 as a 3rd party component of a platform with 200 concurrent users playing online furry convention.

Not sure about Czech, but those kinds of orders are definitely regular in the US.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Courts order repossession of shit all the time.

Agree that it's better than 3rd party, but that's not the alternative on the table here. The true alternative, and why a lawsuit is being filed, is for Karel to retain control over the existing Neos code so that if he does choose to part ways, he's not starting over from 0.

Beyond company accounts and possibly hardware repossesion theres not really much way of doing such is my point.

There's no court order for you to send over source code you used to work on that you did not steal

Like IIRC PS or XBOX had at one point ordered return of Dev Kit machines which only works because those are physical hardware not just software

Also those were stolen but yeah

There's no claim to be made that the copy of Mulan on my PC is somehow property i need to return to disney

First of all, you're assuming that Karel doesn't already have his own back up of the source code. Is that true? I don't know.

Second, yes, courts can definitely order the devs to turn over source code if it determines that the code rightfully belongs to Solirax. They can refuse to comply, but that would then result in contempt proceedings against them, which could end up in monetary fines and even jail, because at that point you're violating court order.

Ah sorry i dropped the clarifier at some point, im talking about fully documented source code tot he point a seperate team could actually make use of it and work on it without you know having to reverse engineer every little thing to figure out what things do

its really hard thing to do.. like reverse engineers will need to work for months.
but thats way better.

I mean they were given access to it by Solirax and for that purpose have signed NDAs i think the most they could do is request deletion possibly and even that's questionable

Ya, I don't know the extent to which stuff beyond the source code itself would be subject to Solirax IP rights. All I'm saying is that if a court finds the company has ownership, then it can order it (whatever "it" is) to be turned over.

And agreed, reverse engineering and for a new team to try to pick up where Froox/team left off would certainly be an extremely difficult and challenging task. Maybe even impossible. Who knows. But that's better than any other alternative for NCR holders at this point imo.

Another hurdle there is proving that the property is in fact in someones possession

We disagree there and thats fine, personally i stil think third party with a slick transaction API could actually work out really well for both parties without splitting the community, but your opinions valid too.

we are few. It would be great if Karel and Froox spoke here... they could generate a huge community if they agreed and just used some telegram... they have the best virtual reality project and avatars in their hands. and they only let the competition grow because they are not encouraged to scalability, to grow

ya. the sw itself is great even right now. ppl can wait, cus ppl wait for product like victoria vr

Victoria vr will be great

Wait i just checked Victoria VRs homepage and i dont know how to tell yall this but

Yup, agree to disagree. And sorry if I came across as hostile earlier. I guess having folks like Ja Kobu in here trying to spread their bullshit agenda has worn away my patience a bit.

victoria backed by maker dao
bloktopia backed by Animoca brands....
Neos backed by Furries

oh no...

Replicating unreal editor functionality wihin an Unreal game is against UEs EULA

So they'd need to change engine to do their project

where's Ja nowadays?

who the fuck knows, he's probably still lurking in here under another username

It's understandable, I personally usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt by default but i know how it can be eschausting

kkkkk

Holders could stop holding

✌️

but EULA is under Solirax right?

Huh?

the license for commercial Neos thing

i dont knpw much about EULA

I was talking about Victoria VR, on their website they say they want to use unreal engine, but the core functions they need for a true metaverse break the Unreal engine EULA (End user license agreement)

ah misunderstood the context :)

Sure, that's a risk with anything. And funds could run out. But that is still a chance at life. The other alternatives on the table means certain death for NCR in my opinion. Anyways, I'm not holding NCR myself at the moment, but I'd like to throw some funds back in once there's more certainty

Same here I have currently pretty much stopped all my monetary support and am waiting for resolution to continue it

same here. but I have NCR tho.
waiting to buy more with certainty

but this will take like.. at least 3 months for next step... :(

I finally sold the last thousands of my NCR after Karels opinion on Employee Privacy, I can't really stand behind such

Especially with him calling out someones current employer

was just a bit too much

I have 20% of my assets hold here... which just means 20% loss lol.

I restructured my stuff when we were at around 7$ to secure against possible loss and then continued to hold a big sum, now I just have it sitting as ETH possibly may reinvest

Ya -20% is still easily recoverable, especially in crypto. I feel terrible for the people in here who went all-in and got fucked.

Yeah even if gambling like that is on the person i know how people can get addicted to this kinda stuff especially when they are pulled in by constant hype and such

so ncr went to $500m to $10m

$490m fucked

possibly..

The ideal situation is Karel walking away with both NCR and Neos, but it's unlikely to play out that way given Froox's half directorship and equity in Solirax LTD. I think that in order for NCR to properly work as originally intended, the team developing Neos needs to be completely onboard with NCR being a central component of the economic system. NCR existing as a 3rd party afterthought because the furries want it gone isn't the way to inspire investor confidence and recapitalize the token.

It's definitely a bit of a nuclear option, but I think the way we get back to a $10+ situation is by divorcing NCR from Neos and starting from the ground-up with a new platform that has NCR (Or re-named migration of it) as the centerpiece of the platform as both an investment vehicle and in-world currency. Assuming that Karel is entitled to all of the existing capital raised through the ICO in November/December, I think that could be a realistic option.

Someone being a part of this discord doesn't make them a "henchman" of anything, you need to chill

Agression will solve nothing

And who exactly have I slandered?

You realize people can use both telegramm and discord, right?

Also it's a bit ironic to talk about echochambers while at the same time trying to paint people you disagree with as nothing more than malicious actors and "henchmen"

You should take a step back and instead of throwing around accusations liike that, yknow, actually talk and discuss things with people, its a lot more productive, theres no need for rabid fights.

yep.

I mean, people can change, but i get whatcha mean

but its allowed to speak shit to Karel officially in discord. which is just getting stronger. even the team member(geenz) is officially saying bad stuffs now.

idk if thats right..

Yes you are allowed to say both negative and positive things about Karel and the team as long as you arent insulting people n such.

If someone was to drop into the discord and say that Karel is [insert slur here] that stuff would get shut down pretty quickly

Discussion whether positive or negative is great as long as people remain civil

well.. never saw "insulting Karel+tg community" shut down so..

its pretty selective there

It depends on what people are saying exactly, if they are just expressing their dislike of crypto etc thats fine aslong as they dont yknow start throwing around slurs and such

This is what Shifty also originally said when a person was making a list of "karel supporters" or however it was phrased

And stuff like that is generally just baseline frowned upon

Honestly the main thing in here that i want is that both sides remain civil and calm and that things like slurs are removed we dont need pointless slurs, neither here nor in the discord, people can express their discontent without slurs n such

caring for community is always nice

i just dont want to get into mess anymore. its waste of my time.
Waiting for Karel&Froox to compromise is all we can do.

but Froox is too quiet.. too quiet.

200 eth..?

oh man....

I mean, I have no clue why Karel is saying anything, considering possible legal battles, this is most likely why Froox has been silent as it's most likely been advised by a lawyer

cus Froox's friends talk instead of him

good move tho

A lot of the people in the Discord community lost money, including now the MMC winners this year. Of course we are dissapointed.

i assume u sold, hope u can recover man

What exactly do you mean by that?

Ah that's what ya mean, yeah it would be a big loss

So you invested at the peak?

Yeah but like "when" at what pricepoint

cause the ico went from .08 to 8 real quick

the ~.20 its resting at currently is also higher than where we started from before the sudden hype

Jesus

But yeah if you sent to the mint address at a high mint price that's unfortunate

I dont know why people are doing that still now since the mint page does have a disclaimer that trading prices may be lower

Makes sense yeah, well your money went either to buybacks or is still currently held in the wallet

It's not a scam it's just the mint price

The difference in price is just what happaned after the mint got boosted and then the price fell later by people selling

Basically currently it's cheaper to buy existing NCR than to get new NCR into circulation

Honestly wish NCR mint transactions had been automated before the boom would've probably been lighter on Karel also

pikey.. really hope ncr recovers quick

this is really annoying yeah...
they even laugh at donators of mmc22

not all tho but still.. makes me very uncomfortable

Most people don't and it's been said before that such is in bad taste

most users are great as I have seen

cus discord haters arent the majority but.. they are loudy

Yeah but that's usual, if people don't like something they are usually more vocal about the thing that people who don't mind it

yeah... community has gone so far.

The important part is that we don't let ourselves be pulled into this false dichotomy that tribalism is. On both sides.

Only when we put aside such needless hostilities can we have civil discussions that benefit us all.

Yeah the events have definitely not been great and even some with neutral views initially definitely now have a more negative outlook on things.

Although i'd assume that's more an outlook on Karel himself more than anything.

When new website?

New website for what?

we were just deceived and that's it! the whole team of scammers!

ncr is not removed yet, so not a scam

Considering the team beyond Karel does not have access to the money that would be a pretty terrible scam

that's a lot of fudding

If someone is not going to support a {Token} from an ICO that was supported to fund that project, I see no actual sane reason to fund that someone from the money the ICO of {Token} collected. No matter which project that is

End ICO, staking, update roadmap

It could even be, for example, creating a fair. When building said fair, you'd collect money by issuing tokens, that can be used at the fair, so the promise. When the fair is half done and the ICO skyrocketed so they had enough money, they suddenly announce, that you cannot use those tokens at the fair any more. That's kind of a scam, isn't it?

No news on that yet

Yeah, so let's change it, the fair would no longer exclusively run on those tokens, but it would made them optional and they'd hire a 3rd party to handle those tokens. Why would anyone want to buy those tokens any more? Espectially as the 3rd party's only way to make money from accepting the tokens would be selling these tokens on the market

No one would be interested in those tokens any more, because of the volatility and because they could just use their fiat at the fair

just to let u know, 3rd party ncr is not what ncr holders or Karel wants.

I think you misunderstood what 3rd party means in regards of ncr becoming 3rd party

Or another example, the makers decided to make the fair itself free, so no tokens are needed at the fair any more, but support is still there allowing people to trade whatever they brought to the fair with each other using tokens

and technicaly I view it as 2nd party.

If NCR dies just because FIAT is an option then that doesn't sound like NCR has much point, i personally dont think it would and i dont support having a single monopoly payment processor anyway, NCR or not, we should have options

Then NCR and the ICO shouldn't have been done in the beginning. It's too late now, the damage has been done

Making NCR the only payment option is needlessly restrictive and a barrier to entry for customers

as well as sellers

ncr should have some kind of benefit in some ways, if there should be other payments

btw, fiat is also based on that same principle of needlessly restrictive. The government enforces that paying debts must be possible with that government issued fiat.

The benefits of using NCR would be entirely up to Karel as third party, he could offer lower or no fees to compete with other payment methods

It were too early. yes.
I think the whole situation would look a ton different, if ncr were introduced to be minted a couple months before the marketplace can actually be worked on. Not in its current state, there are several milestones still missing for that.

I see decoupling NCR from the blockchain is the way to go

make a transition from it being crypto to it being an in-game currency only

Due to the negativity against all that crypto, I don't see a possibility for that in the near future though

??
That would worsen everything by a lot.

I dont think the barrier to entry is equal there but this is also why easy exchanges are required, processors like paypal nowadays support most currencies and can perform a simple swap for you almost for free

Isn't it being crypto the primary problem for acceptance though?

As well could the marketplace support a simple swap from fiat to NCR when buying. No barrier to entry for the customer side there

Karel could support this yes. Theres nothing that speaks against that

Theres nothing stopping that on third party

Except that funds through NCR would not go to Neos any more, if it was a third party

So?

If it was first party and the marketplace, the funds through marketplace purchases would directly go to Neos

That's also why Linden Labs bought the 3rd party marketplace and integrated it into their own systems

They have to eitherway, they would simply go through the transaction api.

the transaction api would also be 3rd party in that case

No?

The Transaction api would be made by the Neos team for payment processors to interface with

Then NCR would be first party? I thought it would be 3rd party, but then the transaction api would also need to be at the 3rd party

just get back to original plan.
who is opposing the original plan?

Karel would be able to interface with neos through the methods exposed by the transaction API that the team releases

You can't just break that apart and cherry pick

Any processor would be able to interfact with neos's payment api

Sorry, but that's non-sense and not thought through

This is essentially how any website today works?

Nonesense would be converting a crypto currency to a fully controlled ingame money, while already having thousends of wallets.

Yeah, the same non-sense coming from ignoring what NCR is

If you going to do that, then there are no rights for Neos to access the funds of the ICO

If that's what you morally think is the case alright, i disagree there.

Integrate and benefit, or outsource and have the 3rd party benefit

Tilia also doesn't own L$, L$ is first party in Second Life. Tilia is just a 3rd party exchange service

and processing all fiat payments

I'm personally not much of a fan of exclusivity deals but it's better than a full lock out of all alternatives

Yeah I can see that, since it would give a competitive advantage to NCR over other crypto currencies. it's understandable

I think it should go further to the marketplace being NCR exclusive with an exchange that could also be automatically be put in front to allow for a big amount of other currencies to be used

Are you?

same, so... I wonder where that assumption comes from. I am obviously pink, not yellow

Nope, his name's Tomas

actually, not exactly that, but I don't know how to exactly spell the name

I'm thinking about the marketplace having a small transaction fee to be paid in NCR to sink into the Neos wallet

And for this fee payment to happen, all transactions on the marketplace would have to happen in NCR

And additional fees for the payment processor, if customers decide to pay in other currency, paid by the customer. And if the merchant decides to have all marketplace sells to be received in other currency, they'd pay those instance transaction fees as well

Ohh same. Marketplace can be made 3rd party, but that'd be stupid for whoever allows that

Well, marketplace can be made 3rd party, however it's smart to buy that "product" and integrate it

I'd also tie that marketplace to NCR, so the ICO made sense to begin with. Also I'd tie the licensing system, whenever it happens, also to only work with marketplace purchases

That way, it'd ensure that NCR becomes valuable and whoever believed in the ICO gets their returns

I'd kind of like to see, if there was a continuation of Neos with NCR being optional... then I'm looking forward to see two separate instances that do not interoperate with each other. One place without NCR and without marketplace, but would have to abide by the content ID system. The other place that is with NCR and marketplace tightly integrated

This would be a maintaining nightmare

That way NCR can be 3rd party and it would be tightly integrated into its own instance of a metaverse. However that'd be effectively what a fork would be

But, that is actually a win-win situation for everyone then

Keeping a community together with two very opposing parties?

I dont think that's a fair suggestion for the NCR side

Geenz said it pretty well

I don't care what Geenz said, he's not the whole development team

He's part of it and regardless of who said it this is just a true statement

anyone whos ever worked on maintaining a forked project and had to back port code from main can tell you this

However what he said there is for one thing true, but I see it as very beneficial

That way not a single instance would be in control of both

So you see that NCR would be split off and be essentially given a deaht setence immediately as beneficial?

Where do you see a death sentence there? I don't see it, as a different development team could catch up and start working on Neos

Because if compatibility breaks then Karels fork would have essentially 0 content on it

It's a big misconception that the development team wasn't replaceble

Could someone else work on code for karel, possibly yeah.
Is that feasible competitively? hell no

Some poor dev team having to reverse engineer undocumented code and pray to whatever dark lords they believe in to maintain compatibility for long enough is literally hell

FUD

Ah yes disagreeing with you is fud

nope, saying that a poor dev team wouldn't be able to work on the code base is FUD

I didnt say that`?

I said it would be literal hell

there you said that

and that's definitely FUD

I literally said that yes they could but it would be hell due to the circumstances?

exactly

have you ever had to take over a project without documentation? I have

pretending it would be hell, that's the doubt in the FUD

Its not great and requires tons of leg work to even start

you don't know that, and that's the uncertainty in FUD

I don't know that coming as an outside dev onto a new project with no one to introduce you to the codebase and teach you how things were done previously is hellish? I'm sorry but you cant honestly be arguing that this is not a hard thing to do

Any update on ncr?

it is not a hard thing to do. I've done it before. There is worse code. Even when no source is available

therefore to destroy the fear in FUD. It is feasible and a fork and incompatibility won't necessarily hurt either project

it would actually benefit both projects as there would be competition between them

Alright, good for your skills i guess but generally speaking people within development circles would agree with the statement and heavily prefer proper documentation if not one of the current devs to introduce them to it. its really not a wildly uncommon opinon

The only thing that'd be hurt is, that one cannot treat it as a pure passion project alone or they might fall behind

You can't just call someone disagreeing with your prefered direction for the future FUD.

But I can call out FUD when there is FUD

That's like me saying you calling the First party API nonsense is FUD

I am not just disagreeing, you seem to be far from the truth quite often

Just reading the backlog should give enough clues for that

We are both literally stating our opinions on what we thnk is the best direction for the project in the future

there literally is nothing else than to disagree

its all speculative

Not without all the freedoms Frooxius had, while he worked on Neos

Those hired developers actually have to live a life as well, that's quite some occupation

Karel any update on the open source ?

I am not saying that having those freedoms were a good thing for Frooxius. It was a toxic relationship and shouldn't have been like that

Frooxius had the freedom to put all his time into Neos

Although, the word "freedom" sounds way too positive to what it really was

And now imagine not having to do anything like that

but yeah, that's toxic to health

and it's good this part of the relationship ended

so isnt this good for geenz?
i dunno why he opposes that kk
pretending to care for Karel's version

competing with the original version is what "fork" wants

well.. least documentation will be needed tho.

but defining the "least" will be a hard job also.

why does it hurt both party? cant see any in the context

im starting to like "fork" so much cus they are opposing it for wierd reasons

yeah! think that Karel's version has 0 content, then isnt that just excellent for original dev team????

Im quite sure they want to see that

He's not pretending, Geenz and I both think that NCR still has a chance and could succeed as a useful part of neos as a third party system.

We generally want a positive outcome for both sides.

"original" can still use ncr as a third party system if they want, why not?

i thought geenz likes to make lots of payment available

add api for every payment they want

in this case, fund will be needed to equaly divided tho

Which would work if you were of the opinion that a Fork would be beneficial and succeed, neither me nor geenz as evident by his posts thinks a fork is a good idea for NCR

I don't get why the developers are going to throw away ICO funding

At least according to what Sharkmare and Geenz say

well... who knows? thats what fork wants exactly

?

Its speculation

ur speculation that it will fail 100% is speculation

im saying who knows

I never claimed it's 100% not many things are 100% certain, it's about probability and what you think is the safest direction

I'm seeing creators coming back to Karel's fork, who have already left because they felt unwelcome by the current community

yeah exactly, so how can be "who knows" a speculation

and "fork" just means competing with the original version.. is just fact

I was pretty much agreeing with you, no onoe knows, its all speculation

There won't be an original version, as both sides would be forks of the original. In case there would be a fork

i dunno what changes the "original" gets so.. hard to define

However that fork might not look like, how there are multiple viewer versions for second life, but rather the forks might be separate metaverses with only limited to no interoperability

"original" was simple term for distinguish. maybe Frooxneos vs Karelneos is more apprppriate

And OpenSim to Second Life is the equivalent to a NCR-less Neos to NCR Neos

u mean for Karelneos right? so only original survives, Karel has nothing to say about that. fine

however that NCR-less Neos might thrive creatively for quite a long time funded by Patreon

yeah!!! thats exactly what they want. why is geenz opposing?

Only opposing to a fork, as then control would go to Karel

Given, the amount of funds that Karel has access to, it's possible to hire good programmers to advance Neos at a fast pace and thus control the vision of the Neos metaverse. Leaving that other fork of Neos behind

wanna find out!!
no one knows who will win but anyways, any success for both party is good for users.

Also it'd certainly be unfair for any ICO funds to actually go to a fork that doesn't want to integrate NCR

its called competition in good faith

I believe that this form of competition is good

yeah. no ncr np fund. but patreon can be left for Froox's.

Welp... hard to tell. Patreon money also got used for the minting.

Can you show, how it was done?

ncr vs patreon fund

afaik the NCR for Patreon were minted, but the money stayed in the patreon funds and were not used for buybacks

no

Or have you seen ETH being bought from Patreon funds to mint NCR?

patreons got "ncr" as a reward, not used for minting

oh didnt know

i thought it was just a reward

Show the transactions that prove that on etherscan

ncr reward for patreons on march prooves that its not used for mint tho.

Check Kulza's post of Karel's post there

no ETH being produced to mint NCR from Patreon money

nice kulza

So the NCR reward is just produced from the minting address out of thin air

$0.228442
Currently so no

Therefore it made no difference, whether the NCR reward was accepted or not, the funding from Patreon to Neos was the same. Nothing of Patreon got allocated as ICO money

it's pinned

Apparently that's false

lucaedr.. u r wrong here.

wrong, as been proven

it doesnt

half is rewarded..

nope? Not written that way on the Patreon as far as I remember

total.different

There we go

See? No patreon money is being used to fund ICO

yeah 50~70 is rewarded

there is proof

he said no

Yes! That means something different

Patreon funds further the ICO, but they are not money flowing into ICO

pointless conversation with only 1 who dont understand....

maybe definition is differing here?

Don't confuse those

flowing into the ico..

No, nothing said by Karel so far even suggests that

what does this mean?

money flow into ICO, is this what ur suggestjng?

No, certainly not

we can check the ICO fund money flow u know?

Patreon rewards and CDFT don't fill ICO's ETH/USDC funds, however they further the ICO process

so true

it isnt used bro...

it just mints with no money used for it

kkk

mints are arbitrary, Patreon and CDFT mints don't involve paying ETH

totally know nothing what ncr is

All Token are worthless

no need to argue for this..

The money submitted through patreon does move the batch progress but does not have anything to do with eth yeah

yes and no

oh man..

NCR reward is not taking money away from Patreon funds

btw, in case of a fork and two different Neos-based metaverses are developing, this doesn't necessarily exclude a possible merger in the future

original 0 paid dev team vs new paid dev team

patreon backed vs ncr backed

Froox vs Karel

Non-crypto vs Crypto

Karel's version will begin with crypto-community users just like victoria. product exist but no edits for long time.

I guess that might happen. Gives time for the passion project to develop and aquire funds through patreon

Each team get fork and half ico?

I doubt that

no ico fund if no ncr used for Frooxs IMO.

but they can keep patreons so not a bad deal.

Seems not good deal for other fork

Ico generate from work devs do

Half everything

patreon also halved? hm... why?

Or Karel build new metaverse with ico

also, as the ICO funds are "locked" in NCR, those funds depend on the value of NCR. If progress doesn't make it look like NCR can be used, then the funds are gone

except 1600 eth.

If Karel make deal where he keep possible millions and dev get nothing. This is problem and reason for taking long.

it is not that

new insight..

but if thats case, even giving them 800 eth is fine for me at least.

Nope, this is a theory of a possible outcome only. This is not the reasoning behind the disputes

It is choice only

However, the money I put into the minting. That is money I want to see being used for developing a metaverse with a marketplace that tightly integrates NCR to give it utility

give them 800 eth. and lets see how the fund used for Froox. they are not gonna hire anyone so.. maybe they can split money for themselves

The money I put into Patreon is money I want to see being used in developing a metaverse that I love so much, no matter if it implements NCR or not

I'd still be putting money into Patreon for a metaverse that doesn't use crypto

its also true they already developed whole neos. so i can give Froox 800 eth imo

I just realized, yes there is a lot of past work done already

So ... the recent discussion reads like that every eth that got put into minting ncr, just landed into a wallet from Solirax. And NCR were just manually given out with no connection to it as a backing, If I understood that right.

Almost

All NCR minted were either by ETH paid to the ICO wallet, NCR rewards for Patreon or CDFT

it was discussion for patreon fund but.. ikd if u understood properly

afaik there was no other minting done so far

Well it was more a discussion of the minting process

And minting batches, that were reserved for Patreon rewards and CDFT did not add funds to the ICO wallet

yes it is true that it was given manualy

It's described in the whitepaper

however I also thought that ETH would be bought to mint NCR for Patreon or for CDFT, although it wouldn't make sense

Thats what I thought too

indeed

Welp thats also in the Whitepaper

it didn't allow for speculative usage, like for a buyback, except that buyback was also listed in the whitepaper

I havent read about it or I overflew too much

I haven't found the buyback option either. Although it seems to be part of tokenomics

Source?

I'd like to see these transactions

hyperlink?

Ahh, I found it, https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa51a24f802b016aeb5f47ba67d0eca6bd92e495361260ad0389adbbbc5cc99e3

That's an ETH transaction to the internal wallet to fund gas fees for NCR withdrawals

Send links, not screenshots

https://etherscan.io/address/0x697b771f18ba878b81d00b652046fe601da433ad#tokentxns

What this address ?

None

Looks like somebody bought back into a top 25 NCR wallet position today which is why the price jumped.

https://etherscan.io/token/0xdb5c3c46e28b53a39c255aa39a411dd64e5fed9c?a=0x697b771f18ba878b81d00b652046fe601da433ad

Us after the big drop

None

Wtf

B

kinda diagree with giving them that, after Froox sought to drag us through the mud with no skin off his back.

then we give him 800 eth of our money for screwing us over?

no thanks. He and his team dont care about NCR or its holders. They shouldnt get a penny of our money

The thing here is that plenty of people wnet into ncr to support the development of neos not just to support NCR as a product

then it's a shame Froox and his team had taken an apathetic at best approach to the token and later betrayed that trust with running channels in NCR about brainstorming how to remove NCR

also lining Froox's pockets =/= funding Neos

the truth is that in the end this is a fraud of both karel and froox. I bought at 0.12 usd (within the first 350 holders) and sold from 2 to 9 usd. I had very good earnings. so I am impartial, my pocket was not stolen but quite the contrary. i like the project, i watched a lot of videos in april and may 2021. but you can't steal money from people to finance your project if you can easily respect the usefulness of the token in the hands of investors.. you can sell nft, create many things and therefore, having the token in the power of the project again to continue financing itself... I don't see the point of all this. Why generate losses to 6000 holders who could promote the site more. they are geniuses please... as geniuses they are they should have values... and ensure the welfare of their followers. a low of the token by market is fine. but a low due to the threat of discontinuing the usefulness of the token is not rational...

never saw Froox even trying to care for NCR at least. Just never saw once.

this is not caring NCR value

4 months ago isnt helping either

we need it now after February

simple word from him can help a lot
"ncr will stay dont worry"

but why would he bother open his mouth for ncr holders

admits not helping ncr as a strategy from Froox

i know that. but why hurt the community for his "hope to get rid of Karel"?

could at least say this if he cares holders.

but he dont even know that his 3rd party suggestion made $1 to 0.2 straight.

his friends tell him that its not his fault, its always Karels fault

ok.. thats what Froox is hearing exactly, nice summing up
but its just excuse as I see.
and it just says that he didnt care for ncr value is true

lets see how this turns out. Froox havent said anything, i have small faith that he can take care of ncr holders too.

i hope his state is
"he can tho he isnt now, but he will in some point"

??? paying froox for developing neos is somehow not funding neos ok

noes belong to karel

That is not how to give NCR value though

No financial instrument has ever worked by being optional. However, I'm curious about examples that prove me wrong

Yeah I don't think 3rd party NCR is the answer, especially because it would be at the mercy of a platform that Karel would no longer have control over.

At this point pushing for "3rd party NCR" is just a euphemism for making it irrelevant to Neos.

That's why I hope that to create an irrelevance for NCR this is done by forking off a separate Metaverse with the same technology. That way another one can live on which keeps the relevance of NCR

Also that way Karel would no longer control one of the forks, that should be in the interest of whoever wants to use and develop that one

Yeah sure a hard fork with Karel maintaining his own version completely separately from the Froox version. A complete seperaton

Shit. $NCR is dead

either a hard fork, or they just work out their differences and Froox's team stops being toxic assholes but I don't see that happening.

Everytime I see Geenz pop up it makes me want to puke with how that passive aggressive manchild acts and I realize Karel is absolutely in his right to want to cut assholes like that loose

In any group there are certain people who are just combatative and aligned toward drama and conflict and its clear there are team members who are like that and have blown this whole thing up

and I hate to say to but usually you can count on there being atleast one such person within a group of furries. There's always one who acts edgy, likes to gossip, start arguments and try to turn people against one another

I stil have no clue why you hate geenz so mch, hes like the only one who's been talking about wanting to continue to support NCR.

let me guess, support as in allow it to exist "third party"? Because he's been in here you know

he's been very vocal about not caring about ncr and that he and the other devs dont want to have anything to do with it

Yes, me and geenz both agree on that also that this could be a possibility, and yes i know hes been in here, he got wrongfully banned by reactant when he left just like reactant blocked my permissions to post

Thats the opposite of "support".

like this is the wrong place to try to comvince ppl that telling then to fuck off and build products for your platform is "supporting you".

He and I both think that NCR could thrive third party, which if that would come to pass would be positive for both the crypto community and the wider market.
It's not the option that you favor but it's an option that could still turn out favorable

We just disagree on what the best possible direction is

and he was right to ban Geenz. This isnt his place to lord over, as he's against the interest of the investors and only wanted to be in here to argue.

and look for drama

He stated pretty much no different opinions from my own when he was here and just asked questions.

He didn't lord over anyone just tried to legitemately engage with this chat

You can either believe me on that or not

we disagree in that you seem to think the worst possible direction "eh could turn out okay" and no we here in reality know thats not true.

We just have two different outlooks on how things could turn out, it's ok to disagree you dont have to ridicule or insult people over it, by sugesting they arent living in reality.

Needless hostility is not productive and is actually the very toxicity you seem to not like.