- 26 April 2022 (222 messages)
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Froox was at the meeting as well, we told Arthur that Somnium could be a Neos world if he wanted at some point -
More dev and open sourcing in order to make that happen needed
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A very forward looking scenario
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Make me your marketing officer and I'll take Neos to another level -
I made my first 80,000 USD from Neos
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I think there is a lot of potential but a lot has been done to its image, I can change that
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Any good news?sir -
Yes sir
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Don't underestimate the "Pro" community - all those people, companies and institutions that drive neos to the next level, they are usually very quiet on discord/telegram flamewars, put of professionalism -
Pro license holders, education institutes, businesses -
Not much going on. We're sort of in limbo until the question as to the platform future is resolved. -
I'm not personally very profit driven. I'm more invested in the prospect of a metaverse platform that respects and involves its users.
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It was successful on it's own terms. I suppose that is what doesn't translate. No one involved wanted to be millionaires, they wanted to develop Neos. It got to a point where they felt they were being told to compromise the platform's vision.
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It's just the default prejudice against bottom-up self-organization without a profit motive.
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You're free to enjoy the real world then :)
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We aren't here to dethrone anyone, we're here to provide what we have to offer and are passionate about. I don't see any reason to compromise on that just for market share, if that means what we popularize isn't something we see as good.
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If you fail to articulate your metrics of success within the mission statement of the project, then what relevance are they?
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I get what you mean. I ususally use usenet's Eternal September because it's well represented in the literature and it's such an old event that no one likely has an emotional investment in the statement XD
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Self-sustaining and under active development.
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*snerk*
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I think we could have realistically forecast 5-10k concurrent users in 5 years. Which like, that's pretty good for a VR game. Not honestly sure what the future will look like ATM. Desktop mode had just gotten to a usable state as this whole thing cropped up, would have really liked to see the numbers without these other factors.
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Just simple guestimation. We went from 15 to 300 in two years, showed pretty steady growth in 2020-2021 from the data I saw, I don't think 5-10K is an unreasonable five year forecast at all but i'm not claiming any authority.
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I'm looking at 2018 to 2020 2021 and 2022 have the outlying data IMO.
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IIRC neos launched in 2016. I just don't think steamcharts have data from back then.
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*shrug* network effects are as they are. The growth was still pretty consistant over 2020-2021, I just figure the end of that year likely has the meta hype factor and wouldn't be represenitive.
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I've seen some people who interact with both. Even had high opinions on both. It's hard to give you a represenitive read on that TBH. Of the creators I've engaged with I'd say that the overlap was ~2%, but they didn't view them as subsitutes.
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Oh no no, i mean positive growth. Just from it being a 'metaverse' project.
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There was also the steam delisting debachle, which I think contributed to that whole weird situation, but I'm not sure as to what the effects were.
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Likely, but I still view that period as weird and just avoid making my prediction based on it.
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They hit 10K in their first year? Over 10k, if you count the peak. I don't think that I'm anywhere near that ambitious with my guess.
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https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2022/01/vrchat-concurrency-2021.html is the data I could findVRChat User Concurrency Hit Nearly 90,000 Last New Year's Eve!
Chart annotations by Adeon - click to embiggenate VRChat hit a huge milestone in the final hours of 2021, when the company and community host a widescale New Year's Eve party across the platform. As you can see from the...
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I think Neos has more sticking potential than VRC, but I don't think it's ever going to be mass market.
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Switching costs from a user perspective are absolute. Neos as a simi-professional tool, or neos as a meaningful alternative to corporate friendly media landscapes are the markets I personally see it succeeding in.
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So in other worlds Zero growth -
This is a hot take if I ever heard one. Neos literally has the lowest user retention at the moment of all the social VR or Metaverse platforms
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The key phrase in my comment was "at the moment"
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I can't make anything in VRChat, whereas we have people who intigrate Neos into their production chain as a tool. I see that as a more stable user base than social vr users.
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Neo's isn't good enough as a tool to be brought into a professional production workflow.
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I really want hubs to do better TBH. >.> <.< It's better positioned to be standardized.
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We already do?
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It bottle necks the workflow, building in VR is neat and all, but there is zero professional application for it
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Cool, which project or Studio uses Neos in its workflow. I'm very interested to hear this
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We're using it for motion capture workflows as well as architecture visualization, where it is just quicker than anything else and supports a ludicrous number of import formats. Like, there is an established professional Neos user community.
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Even Simmons uses it :P
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And who is 'we"
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Me, and the groups i've worked with in providing Neos integration.
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Like, you do realize I make a living off of this, yeah?
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I want names of studios or company's that have released a commercial product.
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There are literally dozens of Unity plugins that let you jump into VR on your build instantly
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This was exactly my point
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We're talking about integrations for either previsualization or design. If you want some of our mocap examples, just look at any of our trailers. If you're interested in my personal portfolio, it's published open access on Neos. :P
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So in other worlds no Studios or production companies are using it in a professional manner
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I have no idea what you are talking about. I just literally told you about a b2b workflow, I have no idea what gets more professional then that XD
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What businesses. I am asking this questions, because that's the only way I know you are not a bullshitter
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People in the Neos community tend to make shit up just to make an argument
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I don't care? You asked for my rationale and I gave it.
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I was asking for proff from the get go. Not your rationale.
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If we take out the desktop users and factor in quest and its around 60k
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Steam numbers don't reflect the live population of VRchat only the steam users
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I mean. It is. :)
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Fine to be critical. Even healthy.
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You haven't been on VRC lately have you? desktop uses are a minority. quest users are the dominant population
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And half the people I have met in Neos don't own a VR headset
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I'd love a quest version honestly XD
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There is an android version, and a quest build, it's just uh... bad XD
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aslo the VR industry in as a whole moving toward mobile devices using ARM processing
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being PCVR exclusively is a negative
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Basicly, we need to move to a new verison of mono before we can proeprly use android memory management, so right now if you boot up the quest version of Neos, it will crash in under an hour as it fails to release assets.
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This is one of the reasons I'm here TBH. Meaningful choice is important in the ecosystem and I do not trust Meta, as much as I think we should support their hardware.
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I can't tell if this is bait or you just don't understand the difference between x86 and ARM is more than just processing power
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Honestly I don't know at this point :< I'm bad at reading sarcasm sometimes.
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An android build would also be playable on a pico neo 3 which is releasing in The EU
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I don't disagree. They are a big shark and we have to watch where they are moving. But I don't want them calling the shots for the project in any capacity.
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AVX and SSE are x86 extensions
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My point is that you tend to be dismissive and try to steer the conversation all over the place. THe fact remains Neos has the lowest user retention in the space. It is not anywhere near good enough to be a professional tool for a workflow, and it is remains a PCVR exclusive it will be a negative if your goal is to make it commercial viable regardless of professional users or social VR users
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x86 is a crusty ISA that no one, including intel, likes. ARM is probably going to displace it in the areas where legacy software is not a hurdle to adoption.
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I'd /like/ RISC-V to displace it, but :<
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Its like you don't know how to have a naturally flowing conversation with a human being, you literally communicate like a chat bot
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Probably :) Though I'd say commodification is generally frowned on in hobbyist spaces, with big caveats if you're being seen as taking on Goliath.
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I'm starting to think the UI/UX and tutorials and lack of engaging content are only have the reason Neos have low user retention
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In my opinion its less that there are furries but pretentious coder/developer cosplayers tend to be drawn tothe furre fandom
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And its not just coders, its any faux-professional
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And that is fair. But its unfortunate that over the years the bad apples have spoiled the bunch for you
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Not to pull the plug on your fursecutions, but very few people in this chat give a damn about furry culture. We want to discuss the issues and problems neos faces and what can be done to address them.
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I get that honestly, and I agree to an extent. We have to play this game if we want a slice of the pie, but selling it means taking an approach that focuses on the aspect of the platform we've already been sold on. Like, I'm sympathetic to some of the arguments for decreasing user pain points in on boarding, I especially agree that the tutorial experience is ass. But yeah, I get ruffled when that is focused on to the exclusion of how to incorporate some of the messy interpersonal stuff (etiquette, acculturation).
I am definately guilty of getting combative with some of the people here, sweeping comments annoy me and as much as I try I can't help it, but like. I am engaging in good faith. Ultimately, we either move forward with Neos or we end up with a schizm. I'm invested in Neos and would prefer it to not schizm. -
Reductive lables hurt. Yeah. I remember when disagreeing about moderation processes made me a 'techbro'.
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Fixing and moving forward with Neos Development. People alot of people bought into the coin to support the platform and potentially make a bit of an investment for themselves. The thing that boggles my mind is why there was ANY hate for the ICO at all. It's literally function like an IPO without either of the co-founders giving up equity.
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This is why I support hiring paid professionals to deal with these things rather than volunteers
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I can't tell if your trolling or seriously don't understand how employment works
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AFAIK that's how Karel presented it? Like, all operating costs were done through Fiat.
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Why would you hire people that don't have the skillset you need?
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I think this has more to do with not feeling like their work was being valued. The actual hire was not a material issue, but representative of the breakdown of mutual respect.
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The dev team is literally faux-professionals who would have been fired at teh drop of a hat at any other project.
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it would be insane to bring any one of them on full time
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Reading through the chain of events that we have access to, that is what they did initially, then escilated as they continued to feel they were not being listened to.
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It woud be a viable beta product and not a proof of concept alpha. It's also not an issue of furries, but semi-NEETS
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Well, the name would be different for starters :)
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I've met some of the people on the dev team if Neos didn't exist I think they would have a hard time being employed in general
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Should have made it an IPO instead of a ICO
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Realisticly, Neos would be another project. Like. I don't really understand the position that the vast majority of staff is somehow immaterial to the project but the management is essential. It may be true that neos would not have made it to today without Karel. I am not going to make claims otherwise, but it seems patently absurd to treat the super-majority of a project as non-essential.
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When it comes down to it, if you're too fucking stupid to negotiate a contract up front before doing anytype of work, you don't get to bitch and moan later for being "underpaid", that's how the real world works. And its the CTO's job to ensure that people are not working for free. The dev team is directly under the CTO. Karel didn't pay anyone unless Frooxius asked him too. that how a corporate structure works. I swear it's like people ignore the basic hierarchy about how things work. If your complaint is that the Dev team may or may not have been paid. You need to lay half the blame on Frooxius as its literally his job
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You do know VISA issues crypto cards right?
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regardless of that its Froox''s job to handle and he didn't
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So what you are saying is if froox felt that the arangement was unfair he should bargan for the team as a representative rather than they individually attempting to solve these grievances?
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That's literally the job of a CTO
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Also the job of a strike representative.
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He is the CTO he is employed
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So in other words Froox, rather than addressing the issue of getting his team paid properly he, waited months before making a stink about it. Sound like he should be fired through a termination suit. (owning 50% equity doesn't prevent you from being terminated.)
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We're not going to be able to know the details until they are made public. Most likely we will not know the full story unless this actually goes to court and those details are deemed relevant. :< We are doomed to have to apply inductive reasoning.
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Not always the case. Sometimes a termination suite can actually get a court to order a substation amount of equity be sold off, especially if there is gross negligence
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In all likely hood my bet is on a termination suite if negotiations fail. there is just too much Froox did wrong in his role as CTO
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that's not always the case
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especially in a 50/50 scenario
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Honestly, it's likely just going to result in the company's liquidation.
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The Frooxius contingent will stop at nothing to rid Neos of NCR, the token holders, and Karel. They are not operating in good faith and I don't think there is any middle ground or mutually beneficial arrangements that can be made at this point. Karel has to take control of the company if there is going to be a future for NCR. -
None -
Or Neos in general. Otherwise it would stay a stagnant mess held together by duct tape. It's past time to grow the project into a real company with a workforce
- 27 April 2022 (8 messages)
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neos -
None -
Crypto is more than just an investment. Some people actually use it. I might point out you can actually get a crypto visa card and then just spend it everywhere you can use a credit card, as if it were fiat -
Preferable in places like where I live because the banking system is utter crap. Crypto is just so much faster and more convenient than dealing with their crap.
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NFTs Are Legally Problematic ft. Steve Mould & Coffeezilla
⚖️ Do you need a great lawyer? I can help! https://legaleagle.link/eagleteam ⚖️ NFTs: legal nonsense? 🚀 Get access to the exclusive companion video! -- For a LIMITED TIME get CuriosityStream & Nebula for 26% OFF! https://legaleagle.link/curiositystream And see my collaboration with Steve Mould! https://youtu.be/IZaTd0hDtkI Welcome back to LegalEagle. The most avian legal analysis on the internets. 🚀 Watch my next video early & ad-free on Nebula! https://legaleagle.link/watchnebula 👔 Suits by Indochino! https://legaleagle.link/indochino GOT A VIDEO IDEA? TELL ME! ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Send me an email: devin@legaleagle.show MY COURSES ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Interested in LAW SCHOOL? Get my guide to law school! https://legaleagle.link/lawguide Need help with COPYRIGHT? I built a course just for you! https://legaleagle.link/copyrightcourse SOCIAL MEDIA & DISCUSSIONS ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Twitter: https://legaleagle.link/twitter Facebook: https://legaleagle.link/facebook Tik Tok: https://legaleagle.link/tiktok Instagram: https://legaleagle.link/instagram Reddit: https://legaleagle.link/reddit Podcast: https://legaleagle.link/podcast OnlyFans https://legaleagle.link/onlyfans Patreon https://legaleagle.link/patreon BUSINESS INQUIRIES ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Please email my agent & manager at legaleagle@standard.tv LEGAL-ISH DISCLAIMER ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Sorry, occupational hazard: This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. I AM NOT YOUR LAWYER. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney-client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos! All non-licensed clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015). Special thanks: Stock video and imagery provided by Getty Images and AP Archives Music provided by Epidemic Sound Short links by pixelme.me (https://pxle.me/eagle) Maps provided by MapTiler/Geolayers 00:00 Intro 01:00 What are NFTS? 02:00 Steve Mould’s Technical Explanation of NFTs 05:54 NFTs as Digital Receipts 06:54 On Chain Problems: Contract Law 09:36 NBA Top Shots 11:20 Bored Ape 12:30 Click-Wrap Agreements 14:50 Smart Contracts 16:27 Copyrights 22:35 So Many Consumer Protection Issues! 26:53 But Wait….Are NFTs Actually Securities? 29:41 Coffeezilla Explains the Scammy Nature of NFTs 30:43 More on Market Manipulation 33:17 What About the Off-Chain Problems? 41:06 Innovations So Mundane, No One Should Care! 44:12 Learn More About the Dangers of NFTs on Nebula
- 28 April 2022 (23 messages)
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None -
I'm sort of the opinion that sort of 'unsexy' usecase he describes there at the end is probably going to be the way the technology ends up ultimently integrated into the base infrastructure. Invisible and uninteresting to most, fascinating and hotly debated by the relevant experts and hobbyists XD
I really like ipfs personally and I hope it makes the jump to mainstream use. MIT's Solid + ipfs would make for a really interesting web situation IMO. -
I honestly think the dotcom boom is a really good analogy. Lot of FOMO driving underinformed investment decisions, and the same mix of naive and predatory product strategies with a few stand outs. I actually recently re-watched Nerds 2.0.1: A Brief History of the Internet from 1998, which was right in the middle of that situation. Was really interesting seeing Amazon documented in it's early .com boom form XD
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Isn't it weird that's like a quarter century ago and we have really well documented contemporary coverage? Man it's got to be fun to like, formally study the post internet era.
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John C Dvorak! I met him at ZDTV on the set of The Screensavers years ago.
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Yeah I was really into ZDTV/TechTV at the time and would cross paths with Leo and Patrick off and on over the years.
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Those guys were a big reason why I ended up working in tech. ❤️
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OG ZDTV in the late 90s was the best, during the Kate Botello years.
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The pre-web2 years were super wild west. The internet changed a lot culturally in the late 2000s, especially after the mainstream demographic swap of desktop to mobile users.
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None - 29 April 2022 (16 messages)
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NCR just surpassed CRO (crypto.coms currency) in value
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Now if only we had their 11.7 billion dollar FD market cap. 🙂
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any news?
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what an achievement lmao -
If you get the job I have some Ideas for you
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There won't be a VR on apple until they release their headset
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If you're going to suggest that route at least provide information for win 10 which is the operating system best for VR applications and not VISTA!
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468Install Windows 10 on your Mac with Boot Camp AssistantWith Boot Camp, you can install Microsoft Windows 10 on your Mac, then switch between macOS and Windows when restarting your Mac.
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If you just want to get desktop mode running, you could try https://winebottler.kronenberg.org/WineBottler | Run Windows-based Programs on a Mac
WineBottler packages Windows-based programs snugly into OS X app-bundles. No need to install emulators or operating systems - WineBottler uses the great open-source tool Wine to run the binaries on your Mac.
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Proton isn't on macOS unfortunately :<
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https://www.playonmac.com/en/ is also an optionHome - PlayOnMac - Run your Windows applications on Mac easily!
PlayOnMac will allow you to play your favorite games on Mac easily
- 30 April 2022 (8 messages)
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who should I speak to about not receiving Patreon rewards in my in-game wallet? -
it's too early for May rewards -
the rewards haven't been transferred since Feb
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yup, that's the issue. I'll reach out in Discord. Thank you 🙏
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Anyone know if a lawsuit has actually been filed, or has it only been threatened? Wonder if anyone here is from Czech and knows how to navigate their court dockets. -
None -
we're all just fucked. Neos rugged
@1314262393 / Public archive of Telegram messages.
Archived with 💜 for more transparency :)
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