how will we get the neos patreon to recover??

it seems so low right now 😞

Not shooting your company in the only foot its standing on and making the whole dev team leave.

XP

But in all seriousness you are aware of whats going on correct?

How come no one online? Are worlds also disapearing?

where in the vod is this? Edit: nvm i forgot u can click the 3 dots to see the clip from the vod

I'm not sure

Eventually when twitch introduces linking for that

Ah. 2:32:00

Found it

It is not about the whole dev team leaving. Just the dev team leaving wouldn't cause the Patreon to drop

It is that community you just hate, because they don't like crypto. They are leaving, finally. However, they were also the ones supporting a lot through Patreon as it seems now.

Devs dont pay for their own patreon. People subscribe to patreon to support devs lol

Being welcome to the actual paying community would have been helpful

Anyhow hows your evening?

It is funny, but if you welcome furries, no matter where, you also welcome wealth.
This also happens with furry conventions. The hotels and many of the businesses in town notice a big income whenever a larger furry convention is happening.

This can even be as relevant as when you just opened a business and got a loan and there just happens to be a big furry con next weekend, you can pay off your debt next week

This also works the other way around. Becoming too greedy and wanting even more can have furries and their convention to leave the city and go somewhere else, where they are welcome

It probably doesn't help that a significant portion of the userbase is LGBTQIA and Solarix just moved their incorporation to the UAE.

I know that was a signifigent factor in my decision to pull my Patreon support.

I understand that what I am about to say might not get me a lot of popularity but it's important that people understand that relying purely on Patreon cannot facilitate the level of growth we want to achieve for Neos.

While we truly appreciate the amazing support we receive from our Patreon community, it's natural that some individuals might choose to invest their hard earned income in platforms that better align with their interests.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

The furry community is wonderful and I find it beautiful that we can live in the world where people can explore their identity in so many different ways.

However, it's a reality that the furry community also represents a very niche market.
To achieve substantial growth we need to think on a much larger scale.
We are dedicating significant time and effort to shape the direction of Neos Metaverse right now.
We have started with web UI, better NCR management, cloud is still work in progress but it won’t be long before you will be able to buy storage with NCR again. We have fun concept of gamified staking on the way and most of all we maintain interoperable vision for future Neos clients. This is just the beginning.

The Neos Foundation aims to encourage the development of the whole Neos ecosystem and encourage open-source initiatives, attracting a diverse range of users. It is not here to take control away from people and instal some weird censorship.

I acknowledge that change can be unsettling, especially when it involves stepping out into unfamiliar waters.
However, to transform Neos into the most universal platform for creators, educators, and those who just want to have fun we must expand beyond the furry community or hardcore VR enthusiasts. It needs to be much more seamless experience. Think of Apple. Nobody buys into Apple ecosystem because they want more customisation and configuration. Brand name aside, it is simple and it’s stable.

Except expansion should not mean exclusion which is what you seem to be implying by dismissing this "niche" community (who were in fact, the main source of your total income). Let's not even make this about furries though - they just happened to be a majority due to the creative freedom Neos offers. You had a wonderful player base but are instead choosing to cater to... who? You've actively chosen the path of most resistance at every turn, failed to inform your community when large, potentially scary events were happening, and have effectively rousted any major player who even slightly cared. Over and over, concerns and questions have been raised from the community only to be met with the hammer of "FUD" because their sentiment was critical. You've locked this place down to be a place of fabricated positivity so much so that you can't even see that your entire support structure has left the building. Precious few people are playing neos at this point, let alone supporting it.

You should've ACTUALLY listened to your main supporter base instead of banning them for disagreeing with your direction.

If a project can't weather criticism, then what merit does it stand on? If you can't listen when the community screams at you and storms out the door, why should they listen to anything else after that?

This is not FUD, this is a retrospective criticism of your guys' actions thus far. If you can't rise and actually speak on the matter and instead remove me for bringing up an inconvenient topic, then what more needs to be said to prove the point?

How could you do this to the community...?

Heya, have there been any updates to thr game about the security breach? This a massive concern and its weird it's been 3days without any update to the libwebp vulnerability.

I would strongly recommend that this needs to be addressed asap. .---.

they are not technically responsible for the unity build
if you want to continue using the unity client, someone posted a fix further up

People underestimate furries and I'm a bit disappointed, that it seems to happen here as well. Furries have a significant representation in places that are defined through success. Where ever a company is very successful, there is at least one furry involved at a seemingly insignificant position, but in reality be a foundation, where the company wouldn't exist without

Some say, the whole internet infrastructure is ran by furries

Also, I am one example of that one furry that makes a company successful. This company I work for, wouldn't exist like it does, if I wouldn't work here

Well I feel like taking the unity version of the game down on steam untill a patch can be officially made feels like the right thing to do then?

there is also no one available to do that either

The Neos community has always embraced people from everywhere, not just furries. We're very happy to co-exist with everyone. As long as they are not going against us or trying to exploit us.

Why isn't there a pinned msg about this vulnerability on the official telegram channel?

Solirax is publisher, so Solirax has the rights to unpublish

I'm confused. First time I try client, some fox shows me controls and answer questions. I say I trying to find stake, and gives me hat that says its wizard time and I blew up. Was weird.

Hopefully security issue fixed soon. Want more stake, less hats.

because it serves no importance here

No stakes in the Unity client aka. NeosVR

if anything it would be posted to the unity client discord

Stake is about to happen in Neos Metaverse

So NeosVR not Unity client for Neos Metaverse?

neos vr is the unity client, but neos metaverse has moved on

I know and have the exact same hat you're talking about

I don't know about that any more

along with that.. so will everyone else

As NCR functionality has been disabled on the back end for the Unity client, it looks like there will be new clients

Well in that case i would actually recomend to report the Unity neos client on steamvr for vulnerability
if the Owners of Neos are Unable or Unwilling to patch thier game?

or is Steam to niche of a market to care about? :b

regardless of steam, there's also the standalone build with the same issue

The fix is easy and it looks like the former dev team is even willing to give this fix away for free

it's simply replacing a binary

so whats stopping the curent dev team to implement the fix? ^^

Nothing. There is literally no reason for the client to not be updated with the new library.

I think there's a reason, however if it's that reason, we will never hear about it, nor will we ever get it confirmed or denied

Steam account and the code of NeosVR was never handed over as it should have. This client is thus independent and this unfortunate matter should be discussed on its Discord not here. I think it’s now beyond clear that this blackmail/strike however you want to call it is not working and both the code and account should be finally handed over. All this is doing is harming users.

Crazy. Team turn down equal split of company with both having code?

Steam do have a help line. Have you tried talking to them about account recovery?

Surely there's something there like sending a confirmation letter to the address registered with the steam account or something.

Honestly I don't understand how at least both don't have the code. Even if neos went through a reimagining, tossing out all old systems, then surely at least the steam account the game is published under.

they all resigned? it isnt a strike?

I think he meant this as a strike against neos, like a dig at neos to knock it down, not as a labour strike

Is it considered a strike if they are no longer affiliated?

beside the client version on the website got this vulnerability aswell.

If company fund and code split no problems. Code is very valuable.

so can the current team patch thier game, are they unwiling or unable?

Karel @malooniac Can you confirm if the Neos LNL relay is down again? No-one can connect to sessions now unless they're accessing sessions via Steam Networking Sockets instead, which most Linux headless servers won't be.

Karel's earlier statement implies he (and thus the new "team") don't have access to the Neos source code, so it doesn't sound like they can.

A session orb might work too. Maker jam didn't show for me yesterday and someone had to spawn an orb for me to enter

Session orb won't work either as that still has to use LNL unless you modify it to direct connect via IP.

The issue is getting to the people before hand (or getting something to them) and they are both new to Neos and VR in general.

Just trying to iron out the cleanest process to get them into the session that they can't join in the normal way.

Alright fair.

As Solirax is the publisher on Steam, can't you just recover access to that account through support?

Also I think you mean it hurts your userbase

I have no idea how Steam handles it, "Publisher Solirax, developer: Frooxius"

Soliras is probably a company account, while Frooxius is clearly a private one.

Thank you, I've been trying to say all this the whole time. It's absolutely shameful and completely embarrassing how they've always handled criticism.

I don't think Karel understands what separation is. Unless there was a written agreement, Frooxius is not required to release his source code. Didn't he say that he would *consider* it? Expecting him to do it out of the kindness of his heart after the way Karel treated him and the team is beyond absurd.

Slandering someone by saying they're blackmailing, is absolutely uncalled for as well. What are they even trying to get from you? Blackmail doesn't even work that way. Blackmailing is often used as a tool used to extract something or prevent something from getting out, not just harm people for the sake of harming them. Do you really think that anyone who jumped ship is afraid of competition?

Besides, who in their right mind would be willing to help someone who keeps blaming them for their own downfalls?

Chances are I'll be banned from here after this since it doesn't mesh with what Karel believes. He very obviously feels entitled to something that isn't his. If you wanna complain about FUD, why not fix the attitude that causes it in the first place? (Your own.)

If you want your company to succeed, stop blaming others for things that don't go your way, and make do with what you have available to you. The past is in the past and won't change. Make a new future for yourself instead of getting mad that your raft isn't a cruise liner already. It sucks to start over, but the sooner you deal with it, the better. Face forward, not backward and things will be fine.

If calling him out like this gets me banned, see ya, it was interesting to keep up with things here while it lasted. Figured I'd try to provide some criticism that explains things rather than saying "person bad" and leaving it at that. Hope things get better for Karel once he cleans things up. Peace ✌️

Karel, would you like a key, so you can come experience the dream with us?

why the /blackmail/strike? whats the blackmail part? Is the blackmail "hey i will launch my own platform if you dont take ncr down?"
Strike against neos how?

ncr is too integral to do that

the webp doesnt just effect neos, it effects all chromued based engines and websites. so there is no "strike" against neos?
and the patch was released, for free, from froox him self, for the goodess of his heart, all the Curent devs have to do is patch it in

legitimate offer

wasn't made clear if they can or not

It's open source:
https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

And the license allows it:
https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage/blob/main/license-fi.txt

It's literally as simple as replacing a few files

it is, but will they? is what I'm asking

Pretty sure 'current devs' is an empty list. But that's just speculation. I mean why not update the sites client at least.

I didn't say it was blackmail, that was karels claim.

I was just giving my interpretation of how Karel meant his use of the word "strike" was to be taken

People were banned before for asking who the new devs are.

im asking your interpretation why karel used the word "blackmail" before the slash "Strike"

Lol yea honestly pretty sure it's an empty list

Why else would he be so incredibly offended every time someone asks

oh I see. I'm not sure. I'm guessing he's referring to them not fixing it on steams side because they are the ones with the access and they know the issue exsits.
Or maybe it's some misunderstanding I'm not seeing

well they did kill his ability to scrape tons of money from a crypto currency so... ;)

why isnt karel fixing it on the website if he doesnt have acces it to steam atleast? :b

🤷🏻‍♂️

You mean, providing a tutorial on the website?

Yea but the New devs™️ should fix that... too the moon and what not. Nfts or something. Idk

That part

As we were not sure if Neos would release a patch, this is why we took the initiative to compile and release it, as the binaries in Resonite are a product of Resonite, we compiled and released our own separately according to the license. Creator Jam is currently still hosting events on Neos and wanted our participants and others who are still using Neos to be protected.

no fixing the webp vulnerability

The reason so many people like the new platform is because it doesn't have crypto

As for Neos releasing, I have no idea but I assumed it wasn't going to happen before Sunday's Creator Jam.

Because the application needs the fix, not people's websites?

Correct, anything that used libwebp that loads a webp file could be vulnerable.

The application is aviable on the neos website, Karel and thier devs could fix the vulnerability on that client if steam is the issue

All of the browsers had been patched a few weeks prior.

Scantf made a point earlier about the neos metaverse being separate from neosvr and I think that's the biggest thing here, as far as they're concerned the metaverse is running fine why bother.

It made sense since browsers would be the largest vector of attack that they would be patched first before the libwebp CVEs were made public.

They don't have any non-unity client released yet though? Unity client is essentially dead at this point?

Or am I not aware of something?

... there is an explixit vulnerability that makes so hackers can access your computer if you are using the program

Technically, you wouldn't need code access to patch the FreeImage.dll - it's a matter of updating the distribution on Steam and repackaging the 7z archive of the Neos standalone.

Karel does not need the source to fix this, but he would need access to publish updates on Steam.

the client on the website is voulnerable to this. and it have not been patched

neos team, if it still existed, would have since made an emergency update surely

new team is lackin

I honestly haven't checked, have you verified launching the Neos standalone launcher (the blue one) doesn't pull down an update?

Well aware, please don't think I'm defending them, it effects Neosvr I think they're more concerned with the metaverse side

Gotcha. Basically they should keep their attention in their own court instead of trying to get someone else to fix it when it's not their job

yes i have verified, it using the same dll file as the steam one

What is downloaded from Neos.com does not contain the game, it's a downloader/launcher so it fetches the game from a repository.

Or non-existent

Ah, bummer.

Thanks for verifying

Wonder how much this'll effect the price of NCR lol that's how you'll get them to care

It's not very high at the moment, last I saw

to my understanding, the abuse of the vulnerability would need to be written to work from neos and people making things which abuse said vulnerability are likely too busy making things to target old versions of firefox and chromium for people using old versions of windows which are unsupported by the newer versions of said web browsers.

Still a possibility that someone could abuse the vulnerability, someone has been abusing another hole in the engine to hide themselves and mess with people

just buy the dip, it will bounce back once they added the patch

I get the feeling it's not trending positively right now lol

*if

Lmfao right

Big if

Lmfao it kills me that he just directed people to the "unofficial discord" to look for fixes

its... two lines of code, the patch is free, just slap it in there, why risk the possibility of an attack?

Because then you can make the old devs look like villains for not fixing it for free

Again, he needs access to the account that published the game to edit it

It's 'cause the dev team is so hard at work on the non-unity client that they can't spare the minutes

again, It is on his website, it pulls from his repo, eeee

Oh

Yuppers

This

yes but I'm just pointing out that while it's unlikely there is someone could so maybe it's worth changing out the DLL

A copy of 7zip and the ability to edit a json file is all that is needed AFAIK

If he cant fix it, Then its better to close the download link down, so people arent voulnerable for an attack that will litterly melt thier computer and burn thier home 🅱️

Now now it could just as easily flap their cd rom drive

Yeah, the fix takes literally 5 mins TOPS

Don't assume all hackers are arsonist

how is everyone?

I don't think there's a team working on it honestly

Feelin' froggy

Doing ok my son just woke up so I'm getting baby snuggles <3

cozy vibes

This kind of situation is exactly why I think it should be open source tho, we could have patched this as soon as the vulnerability was discovered

Oh, side note; What causes the most FUD for this kind of product? Anyone wanna guess?
Lack of transparency.

Well yea, it begs speculation

If we can't see what's going on we guess and enough guessing gets us to weird places

exactly

FUD places even

When people speculate, it will usually devolve into FUD

Occasionally you get hype out of it but it's rare

Yeah

Honestly having a dedicated response team and a few solid devs would help alot

i recomend evryone buying ncr right now, this might be a no mans sky situation where the devs where quiet for 5 months before launching something huge

so buy the dip

Idk that's a lot of hope

you arent loosing much by buying the dip

Lmfao just my dignity

Nah you're right

I just don't have faith that there's a new dev team

We've seen no updates for a year and change and not so much as an introductory post to meet the new team

Idk I'm clearly expecting way too much lol

there was an new UI update an month ago no?

For the website, maybe, that was poorly made

Not for the game

Just got the website

And idk those are two totally different kinds of devs

I dont get why people think a previous developer should return to do a patch of a software they are no longer working on

Especially completely free of charge

curent dev can atleast publish the free patch

What current dev

ask karel

Ah you mean the mystery dev

yis

Yeah they could at least push a fixed DLL to the standalone download snce its not like this fix even requires access to the source code

I'm confused. If project to be open source, why stake demo source not available?

It's not open source we're saying it should be. And likely because they've not figured out staking integration yet /shrug

But again speculation since there's little official information

Guys, I know how we can distribute the patch!

We can take advantage of CVE-2023-5129 to establish a privileged session and replace the affected dll :D

All we got to do is change the startup image :P

hcskbxjxxd tapping on / shrug seems to just make you repeat it as a message @-@

White hat is still hat wearing in a no hat zone. Don't make me get the squirt bottle.

Woah there console cowboy, if Ransford's Hat isn't welcome here than neither am I.

LOL

Sorry I get excited. I'm not the hat police.

Reading The Past Chat Is Very Interesting It Would Appear Neos Has No Leg To Stand On Legally For The Source And That New Devs Are A Fabrication

A Business Consultant Could Have Helped To Avoid These Painful Past Couple Of Years

So like theres people anticipating an update with no devs and if there are devs rhey dont have the source code for the game their working on?

I feel like issuing a patch for a massive security vulnerability would be a huge step towards securing credibility

You don't even need the source of the game to implent this fix x3

Karel just need to updates the repo with 2 lines of code, and it would be fixed

And why he hasnt fixed such a sever breach?

Ask karel

Im just here for the nfts

Well I mean if the company folds because thr game it is supported by collapses there arent gonna be nfts for much longer lmao

Just buy the dip

when can we expect an update to neos? or can we

Steam account and the code of NeosVR was never handed over as it should have. This client is thus independent and this unfortunate matter should be discussed on its Discord not here. I think it’s now beyond clear that this blackmail/strike however you want to call it is not working and both the code and account should be finally handed over. All this is doing is harming users.

are you two trying

🤨

There was also a Downloadable Standalone version with NCR functionality on the Website.

doesn't seem like anyone knows who is responsible for neos vr anymore

oh thanks i have that. so in other words mod it your self and fix it

Sounds like it. I guess devs only want to use their own code and not code of old team?

Well the sounds of things It is supposed to be Carol but She he it anyways seems like they don't have a copy of it so this is what I'm thinking has happened

Oh let's go together and teamwork A awesome metaverse YAAAY High fives all around
Three to five years later

So You wanna add cryptocurrency to this place ... sigh fine But I don't like this

Oh ship a huge explosion in users because crypto bros and money

We need to take this farther clearly says Carol . Other Co something . NO
Thus was born the issue between the two And we have no more updates until emergency updates . It's like round one fight
The rest steps in to break it up then we go our separate ways . One saying money money money and we could use a different engine. Oh this should mingle with you unity quite well right ?????? Right ... To be continued on that front
I have gotten bored the rest of the story is obvious

Did user laeve? Messages now gone. Can't share stake...

Usually Happens when someone gets Banned.

Karel doesn't have the source code to Neos VR the Unity game.

He said so himself before in this chat.

It would prob be safer taking down the steam page

to prevent ppl downloading dangerous clients with security vurns

How logn do deposits on site take?

What'd I miss

Would need to remove the public package on the website as well if it has the same problem.

The one at the "download now" button located at:
https://assets.neos.com/install/NeosPublicSetup.exe

Perhaps the new unreal client will soon replace it.

You guys are aware this issue can be solved without the source code right? Even if karel doesn't have access to thr steam account, they still have access to the repo and can implement the fix there. Even the webclient on neos website have this vulnerability.

WARNING, the webpage "https://neos.com/" suffer from a webp libvpx vulnerability aswell!
whoever is running the website code must update thier servers or risk hackers getting acces to the website

That would be in control of Karel and @malooniac

i already msgd them yesterday, but since this issue havent been adressed for 24hours im giving out a public warning aswell

given them a full detail report of the exploit works

(Admittedly we're curious about this; have there been any vendor advisories for the web server applications on this? Haven't seen any personally.)

Not any on the vendor side I have seen yet, but I would still urge to update just incase

Not... sure that's true at all. It's using IIS if I remember correctly which I don't believe ever even interfaces with LibVPX.

Then how is it able to show WebP images?

The browser used to see the website is the thing that needs updating, not the website 🤦‍♀ It was a vulnerability in chrome, not webpages

Basically anything that reads the data off the webp file

websites are hosts for the files, not in charge of the rendering of the website

this mean wallet and coins are at risk?

The server, wich have an old libvpx software., have this issue. I don't wanna go into full detail how to do the exploit, but it's possible to a bunch of nasty things

So you're saying that the webhost, is the provider of the libvpx dll? Or are you saying that the game files need updating? Because whatever website you visit doesn't matter if the browser's dll on your own pc is up to date.

The issue is the website has the file for the vulnerable neos.

You can update the files on your own but if you’re new to Neos and you download from the website you’ll get the vulnerable files

Okay, then the proper words need to be used while mentioning it, the server needs the files updated for the game, not just the server or the webpage

The server still has the vulnerability is what I think they're saying. Which means a malicious user could somehow trigger it and gain access. The server doesn't use that dll to host you're correct but the server still uses that dll itself.

Is the server itself opening the files and parsing them? Or is the server just passing the file over for your system to read and parse?

I'm not trying to get into details of the exploit but afaik they'd have to direct the host to a site or file but if that's possible they'd have access.

Again I'm no expert just basing this on what I've read about it so far

From what I understand of the exploit, is that if your browser is using the old version of the dll, and you load an infected webp, it will load the image as normal, and once it hits the malicious part, it causes the dll to crash in a way that it allows unsigned code to run. This is only possible when OPENING an infected file.

Websites are often not doing anything in the background other than just serving files, and managing back end stuff

The only way a server would be hacked via this method is if a server owner OPENED the infected file using the server

Yup.

Which is what I think they're suggesting is possible

Most browsers auto-update

😂

Most servers use outdated browsers

But I suppose that if you opened the file using picture browser, it might be likely to have a problem

true

Again 0 fud not speculating just explaining what I think they meant

And this is good conversation honestly

Thank you for explaining further xD

I hope that whoever is managing the server makes sure to update what they need to in order to keep security tight

That entire conversation was nonsensical as no-one really explained what they mean. Let me elaborate:

There is an inventory viewer on the web client, yeah?
The server might also do processing if you, for instance, upload a new profile picture so that it can have multiple different resolutions, or auto-crop, etc. Etc.

Not too difficult to get a server to process an image if it has a vulnerable image processing library.

Especially with modern asset management pipelines.

There's a copy of Neos stored on the Neos website (the crypto version, from when Steam disallowed it). That version is one that could be patched without access to Steam as it's just an archive stored on the site. That's what is vulnerable to the LibVPX issue, not the website itself.

So website build can be updated without code? Just file replace?

Yeah, they just need to swap out the .dll file in that package.

Also I've just been hit with the "all your space has gone, now it's just 1GB issue"

hey 1GB is mooooore than enough for everything youve made! who needs more than that!

Yeah, about that.... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/1159288244630990958/image.png

Jesus 4908%

I sent an email about it 3 days ago, got a response from Andrea Maloney saying they'll forward it to their "team" so they can get it sorted. Hasn't been sorted yet. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640736570047201281/1159292554962014268/image.png

So now Neos won't store items?

Not if you were hit with this

Hi Nammi, I am sorry I did sent a note to the dev to look at it straight away. Let me chase it up for you. Apologies, you should have your storage back to normal by the end of the day today.

It’s only been an issue for some users who had an extra space allocated as a result of MMC reward or similar “atypical” sources. Majority of accounts remain unaffected. And we do our best to respond quickly in most instances after we receive the email/note.

That good to hear. Much good!

Can dev update file? I don't understand all about Webpp or libs, but sounds like major issue was mentioned earlier?

Maybe that way taking long to fix? Dev just busy?

Wasn't going to argue that point with them earlier glad someone else did it.

I legit forgot there was such a thing xD

Usually if something like that is known, development work is shifted to fix that one issue before anything else. That's how other places work

Nft implementation is on the higest priority right now

that'd be awfully silly

Wait there are plans for NFTs?

Yes! Artifacts in amazing Patreon! So rare and nice

Get your token of a yellow dog now!

🦮🐶🐕😺😸😹😻😼😽🙀😿😾

it's silly that people are not buying NCR as it was the end of the world, at these prices

id like to point out to u crypto people, u cant use patreon for it. its literally against their TOS. you cant have rewards for patreon pledges that offer a way to receive real money in return, only TOKENS that can be used with in-game or reward system that doesnt exchange to real cash.

its a miracle that no one has reported neos patreon cause that would be shut down very quickly

I can imagine Patreon is aware, though the NCR story seems to have been sold to Patreon as a utility token, which would be fine

Utility, because you can exchange it for services of that platform, which is true (or was) because you could buy storage with it

I'm excited to see what other services you can get with the utility token NCR in the near future

Of course its been reported

Multiple times by multiple users.

Worlds missing

That happens as some people are migrating away and they delete their content from Neos. Those people that someone didn't want here, they are leaving and taking their stuff.

Is there plans for fixed?

how would you? you can't control people.

Bug needs to be fixed

The bug has been fixed, if you mean that about people leaving

No worlds being deleted bug

What worlds are you talking about specifically

the user might no longer exist, then their world gets removed permanently

Yes, I mean that bug. Has been fixed

Took long enough

Good news, it got resolved I have my storage space now!

Heck yea!

In an hour (10:30 pm EDT), the Constant Slerp's will be on Neos for one last time. Anyone is welcome to join us to hang out, talk about Neos and share what the platform has meant to you.

Emergency!

?

So.... are you going to elaborate?

Literally my limbic system. "Panic!?" But why 🦗🦗🦗

🤔

What is it Lassie? Did Neos fall down the well?

Metaverse civil war

🤣😅🤣

Resonite vs Neos I'm guessing?

Hey durian is a thing to I've hear

Idk, I got my money on the winner.

Can someone help me? I need to delete my resonite account so I can register again with my neos username so that I can migrate my neos. I want to keep using the same E-Mail.

wrong community.

I also need help with password Reset on neos by the way. That's the main reason I'm here.

You should be able to do that from within the game if you launch the game itself.

Oh ok thanks

The same people who work on neos also work on resonite.

Nope

Worked past tense

You're in the wrong place

Check their discord

But I also needed help with neos.

I sent it in here since I needed help with two platforms by the same devs.

Again not the same devs anymore

I'd try resetting your password in game then check the resonite discord for your other issues

Where do I find the discord?

The discord invite for the other platform is resonite

Then ask for help about Neos, if you need help for Neos

This Resonite is a completely different thing and has nothing to do with the Neos Metaverse

How does account migration work?

You just log in with your Neos info inside R?

yep

You register on Resonite with the same email and the you can migrate, there is a tab for migration in escape menu

and theres a tab for it. but thats for the discord

So Resonite and Neos share the same login info?

I guess I'm just trying to understand how Karel is OK with that or how he doesn't have anything to do with it

If you have a neos account, you will login to Resonite with your Neos credentials and it will migrate everything over.

No

You need to create a Resonite account first.

why does R have built in migration from Neos?

Its a Feature, it will support multiple Plattform Migrations.

Not only Neos

It's mainly so that people can leave neos with all their stuff.

so people's Neos info and objects are public?

No, you authenticate with neos to download everything. Kind of like oath but not actually

what other platforms?

durian

i think

yep

No, you create a new account in Resonite, but if you use a username that already exists in Neos, it'll tell you that name is reserved for the Neos user of the same name and if you then give your Neos password, it'll offer migration.

at the time Resonite's annoucement all existing Neos Usernames at that time were pre-Reserved. by creating account w/ a Reserved Name, you haveto provide your Neos Password to verify. from there you have the option to Migrate.

Oh, Neos' password recovery has been broken for weeks. No emails get sent out.

thats unfortunate

Yeah, that's probably what they are running into.

Also, I found I had to retry multiple times to get resonite to recognize my neos account info

said something about duplicate account or something, dunno, but I was told to keep trying and it would eventually work

I've found their emails are going out but they are going out from garbage servers which will get all their emails binned.

It Will Be Interesting To See How Neos Fares Now That It Is Effectively Forked Into A New Product

I don't know from which angle or perspective you have to look at resonite to claim it is "completely different" than neos, all changes I see are cosmetic and a minor inconvenience of account migration

neos has not been forked, it has been abandoned

went on and saw no one. honestly never saw it so ghostly

20 users just now. not seen number like that since joined. its wild.

Neos today feels like Neos in 2018 player count wise.

Just without a public Aegis_wolf session making content.

Or Gearbell

Man. Thats wild

Its weird to see nothing anynore from what was vibrant. Lets hope the successor is more vibrant

https://scaly.place/neos

This guy's been afk for weeks/months, and is currently the only public session right now with someone https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640736570047201281/1160108282241876028/image.png?ex=65337608&is=65210108&hm=62fd983489c126b5860bca2c0df076215449cfb534c8c9faf280b9ef5bd569e6&

Discord links like that will cease to work soon I heard

How come you deleted the message

Old ones will yeah. But this is a fresh link. I can't link actual images here, only links.

Made a mistake and decided to delete and resubmit instead of edit

Oh wait is that why my image failed to send

Ah

Normally all my screenshots get uploaded to Imgur and replaced in my clipboard with links but I’m on mobile rn

It only takes a tiny bit of legal understanding and some common sense to know, that it is something different

legal understanding is for lawyers, not players, and common sense says resonite has cloned codebase from neos, and a sprinkle of minor cosmetic changes

If you think so

So is Karel suing if team just took the code to build new product, while not giving access to the old codebase?

So, I guess we are back to the start. Community building

https://store.steampowered.com/app/740250/Neos_VR/

as you can see, developer Frooxius, publisher Solirax

please keep this chat for Neos credit NCR discussion only

Would like to hear if soliraxis has access to code and if not, what are the next steps

they dont have acces to the code, and they dont own the code legaly as discused by karel

next step and priority is to implement more NCR funcionality into the game it self

"Steam account and the code of NeosVR was never handed over as it should have. This client is thus independent and this unfortunate matter should be discussed on its Discord not here. I think it’s now beyond clear that this blackmail/strike however you want to call it is not working and both the code and account should be finally handed over. All this is doing is harming users." But this is what Karel said

jupp, hopefully the devs who are striking/blackmailing karel will see the errors of thier way and release the source code, all its doing its hurting users atm

1, wait for devs to do the right thing

2. wait for karels devs to crack th seource code and remake it from scratch

thats where we are at the moment

Man, I remember when I first discovered Neos. I thought it'd be like VRChat, but it's so much more, something that actually keeps pretty much all the "metaverse" promises. Creating worlds, items and avatars, all from within the "metaverse", and being able to share them with other players, all within or out of VR. It's a shame it was ruined by crypto, but now we have resonite for that. No crypto, and actual updates. And unlike Neos, running Resonite isn't a security risk.

farewell ekkie, you will be remembered

I really hope that any of you actually invested in NCR realize that all crypto investments are, by definition, a ponzi scheme. If you want to make profit, you have to find a bigger sucker to pay more of your tokens than you have. And they have to find an even bigger sucker, and so on. I hope that all of you learn about the sunk cost fallacy, and I hope that you find the strength in you to leave this part of your life behind.

Thank you, the FUD ban should come in any minute now.

Solarix has done a lot of things that alienate the userbase. We're currently looking at an out of date client with known security issues, a company that appears to have strong-armed out 90% of their staff, A unanimous resignation from their volunteer team, and a rebase to a country that absolutely does not support the community values. In the pros column we have a new web interface for a new token chain that doesn't interface with the legacy systems and the promise of an unreal engine based client.

I am extremely confused as to why people seem fine with blaming the previous devs rather than asking Solarix to take the steps required to recover the steam store. (Which is, following https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/managing_users, to open a support ticket and provide the legal information require to establish officer ship in the entity that registered the page). Why, exactly, are we content with "blame the previous guys. they didn't quit right." as if a company is expected to be so poorly organized as to not have a recovery plan for its core assets.

Seriously. A clear plan to get back up and running, communicated with a timeline is the bare minimum we should be asking from Solirax. That hasn't been provided. Instead we're left waiting, watching existing platforms getting more sophisticated and competing platforms pop up. As someone with a substantial investment in the ecosystem it disturbs me that a plan of action is entirely missing. It has gotten to the point that I have just about written off my losses in the platform because there has been no clearly articulated plan. Not for transition prior to the staff exidus and now not for disaster recovery.

The thing that absolutely flabbergasts me is that legitimately just reaching out to the existing community could have facilitated recovery on a lot of these points. It's not like there wasn't an abundance of people who had learned the ins and outs of frooxengine from decompiled releases. It's not like we haven't had people pop in to this very chat to offer solutions, especially when the security of the community was at stake.

If Solarix takes a single lesson from this, it should be to seriously re-evaluate operational priorities. Identify your core processes, identify the required assets to support those processes. PRIORITIZE MAINTAINING THOSE ASSETS. Damage control can and should come /after/ solutions. Communicating steps being taken can even constitute /both/.

I frankly think that too many positioning errors have been made for Solarix to recover, but I seriously hope that's not the case. Either way, if this isn't being seen as a major learning experience then the company is dead in the water. We should be demanding a basic post mortem analysis and the documented findings thereof.

If we were investors, that's what we'd be after once something with this much unchecked risk blew up like this in our faces. At least, if the company wanted to keep us as investors.

Bro nobody is coming back. They are all happily engaged in a new project that most of the old userbase is actively enjoying. Don't hold your breath on that one. And afaik they could patch the security issue without the source code. Idk not trying to argue or stir shit just saying they're not coming back lol

Frankly, there are a lot of obvious red flags in what is being promised right now. Epic has started positioning itself as a professional tool for VFX: https://www.cgchannel.com/2023/10/epic-games-to-start-charging-to-use-unreal-engine-for-vfx/ and the feature set that Neos offers is going to cut into that intended market. Some of the most developed toolchains I've seen in Neos are there explicitly to support a VFX previsualization pipeline.

As many people have pointed out, a Neos like tool appears to violate the licencing terms for unreal engine. This, coupled with Epic's clear signaling on expanding the non-gaming usecase of UE would put any project incorporating Unreal Engine that had the potential to serve as a replacement for an Unreal Engine Licence seat in hot water.

nice scare tactic to scare investors to sell at alower price

Do you know why people tell you to do your own research when investing? It's because, ideally, looking outside any one single source will give you a better understanding of the risks involved.

These are actual risks. The next question you ask as an investor is, "Are there mitigating factors that would make this risk more palatable?" You are the only person aware of your financial situation and thus the only person who can effectively determine your risk tolerance. But, in order to do so, you /must/ be curious about your investments. All of your investments, but especially the underperforming ones.

there is no other way then up neos coin can go right now

Seriously. Fill out a SWOT chart. If you can not envision weaknesses or threats, then you do not understand the market you are in.

Lol it can also go down always, into an untradable state, especially if it loses all utility

Well having spent some time in it, I like Resonite. Its cosmetically better and maybe better in other ways. Mostly I like the people in-game.

I just hate the developers. Or rather I hate their actions that lead up to this.
I hate that Froox threw his NCR buyers under the bus for no reason and forced them to side with Karel.

I hate how the devs have massively benefitted by propping up a fake narrative that Neos was an innocent project until bad crypto man tried to force it in and they took a stand against it. I hate reading this fake history that shits on me and others.

Its scummy. But worse is that rather than ever apologize or acknowledge those people he trampled on, Froox disregarded us as this undesirable category and pretends he's now seen the light. Because its safe.

I don't expect them to ever give respects to those people, but atleast here and a few other corners of the net the truth is recorded, even if forgotten. But I doubt I'll ever bring myself to enjoy Resonite because of all that. And believe me I want to.

I personally don't feel risk for this. I think Tim is bad at speaking. Even if you could make amazing TV machinima inside Neos someday.

Message from Shadenhand has been deleted because it contains swear words (???)

🙄

Your perspective is flawed you keep spinning this narrative that the devs are evil black mailers but that's simply not what's happening. They weren't being respected and weren't benefitting from it. So they moved on. Why you're blaming them for quitting instead of the company for not replacing them is beyond me.

you're not even talking about the same thing I am.

I am

sure, then address it, but tbh I don't care. Im not spinning a narrative, I'm saying my feelings on the matter. they just don't align with yours

You're hating people you don't even know because of half-truths you heard on the Internet bud.

You're literally making hundred word posts about how much it bothers you 🤣

Naw, I've been following their comments for like 2 years. Im comfy sharing my feelings, youre the one buttblasted over me doing so.

And since your only using information from this source I'd say that's spinning a narrative

Nah just calling you out because I'm tired of hearing it honestly

Guys please, it looks like you both are pretty reasonable so there is no need for emotions like this.
Charged conversations like this are not productive and just make both sides look bad.

It's false and if you actually followed what's been going on you'd know that you're just butthurt they don't like your ape.jpgs

You're trying to bury the inconvenient things I'm saying. Dont worry I'll repost them.

Orc's been here for long enough to have an informed opinion.

Being present and paying attention are two totally different things

We disagree, but I'd never question the effort they've put into researching their position. Their read is as valid as any other, and really think it's rude to dismiss their feelings as somehow ignorant.

/shrug I will question it. Especially when it doesn't line up with the facts. Blaming the devs for leaving is ridiculous. Expecting them to come back and fix things is even worse. I've been listening to orcs "points" for a while now and honestly they're pretty bunk.

That being said I'll give you the fact that I'm out of line.

@orcbull I'm sorry for being shitty. I'm frustrated and honestly not feeling well I shouldn't be taking it out on you.

What's the username you usually use for VR games?

I don't think i've seen orc say they should come back and fix everything. I think that was that white Mlemer fellow.

I'm not really the best one to make orc's arguments, but at least I've always had the impression that they mostly felt betrayed by the actions, but haven't been seeking any specific performance outside of acknowledgement that their principles and personal vision of the project got disregarded as unimportant at best, problematic at worse. I distinctly remember them giving room for other emotional narratives within that, going as far to acknowledge the desire for the previous staff to cut ties with Karol to possibly be legitimate while still critiquing the specific methods they employed as ones that caused high collateral damage.

They may simplify their position rehtorically, but I think they've spent enough time addressing the multitude of positions (in various degrees of seriousness) for us to assume they are engaging in good faith.

Hello

This is Bastien, ON4BCY.
Liège, Belgium.

Happy to meet y'all.

You're correct I conflated the two and again I apologize. I was replying out of frustration that was misplaced.

Feeling betrayed is a personal experience that cannot be debated. However, I believe we should not blame the developers. They are employees and volunteers, and they do not owe anything to the community. Employees have the right to leave their jobs if they are unhappy with the direction of the company. The leadership is responsible for the success or failure of the project or company.

:D
KX4YT out of Colorado.
Welcome and 73 ;3

you don't have to apologize but noted, thanks

I dont want to add too much, other than thanks for eve trying to understand my position. I don't blame the devs for leaving, I think that was the only real choice. It's not that at all.

Okay might have missunderstood, if you are not blaming the devs then there isnt anything I really dissagree with I think 👍

At the end of the day it's sad regardless. There are a bunch of people who were hurt on both sides and it sucks.

Ham radio thing?

Yeah, 73 is sort of a friendly sign off in internaltional morse, so hams use it in various media as not so much an in joke, but like an in-group nicety.

Thank you :) I didn't get to attend any of the meetups so I wasn't sure

I thought Bastien was saying a Canadian postal code for a sec 😂

Lol I wish I would have gotten involved with the ham radio group 😕 I saw the event but was busy

I don't know anything about it but it's something that's always kinda intrigued me

I think NARA is transitioning their VR meetup to another platform, but they are still active. Defiantly the most accessible way to get to TX occasionally and a very knowledgeable group if you need people to help you prep for the exams.

Actually i think their meet up is later today.

Hopefully I can get to feeling better today and maybe hop on. Migraines suck

Oh gosh :< they do. Sorry that's something you've got to deal with.

They do also have their meet ups on discord if you can't handle the eye strain.

Did not know that do you happen to have a link to their discord?

Yeah, one second, i'll dm it.

Ty

They sold NCR for years, then during the (extremely prolonged) split they made it known that they view NCR and its holders as an extension of Karel, one leaves with the other. Needless and unfair. Froox would say by proxy he doesn't want anything to do with those people (after having accepted money from them for years) and such comments get wide praise. I'm leaving alot out.

Gonna add, I'm not invested. I got like a few hundred NCR, never cared about price. Its the principle that people were needlessly trampled on and forgotten by a hero figure.

Ill stop beating it to death now, but I needed to clarify

The karel vs froox stuff is too complex for me to talk about. Just wanted to make sure nobody blames the other devs and volunteers :)

Still sucks that it left so many people feeling so hurt tho

I wonder what would be if they'd have worked it out.

I think a lot of my issues with the crypto side of thing stem from the way I've seen Karel talk to/about members of the community. I know he's human too but a modicum of grace is required in positions of authority especially when optics can hurt you financial.

Like don't get me wrong I'm sure it comes from a place of deep frustration over a long period of time, but idk 😐 seems like things could/should have been handled better.

for me, its the insult, not the injury

The topic is so derailed. Let this exist as two separate places. Bashing one or the other is childish, and takes away from the ability to enjoy either experience independently

I don't think we're bashing each other.

Neos got rid of the community Karel so hated. Up to a new start I guess

That's fair and I get why you'd feel insulted. I came here for the crypto initially so I'm kinda part of that boat too. The good news is now neos should be semi clear of people hating on crypto, but I don't know if it'll ever get back to a place of usability.

Karel's human and I sympathize with someone getting dogpilled. At best he's graceless under pressure in communication and business. I don't even know if he can type English well, there was no hope of him easing people

There is a simple fix for that lol. That's what a pr team is for. Ideally he should have never had to interact with the community. But I get it start ups often don't invest in pr until way later

Ngl I've still got a small fistful of NCR and I'd like to eventually see both platforms flourish. Rising tide and what not right. I think that starts with the communities since the odds of froox and karel working things out is pretty nil.

It'd be really cool to have a factual well structured documentary covering the whole thing but I think It'd probably only make things worse lol

Froox should provide whats needed for Neos to run atleast, including the Steam account privledges. Otherwise I assume its maliciousness and he wants to bury Neos and doesn't see it as having right to exist

The neos foundation will continue to run with the development of the unreal client

Since there's an avenue for recovery and it's not being utilized is that out of maliciousness too? Never attribute to maliciousness what can be attributed to ignorance.

And honestly would they even want it since the new clients supposed to be ue?

There are tons of easier ways they could have made the community suffer if that was the goal. I don't think anyone was aiming for maliciousness

Like I used to run private servers for gunz the duel and when one of our devs left he dropped tables from our database. That's malicious. Sorry for the pile of messages I think the caffeine is kicking in and my migraine is fading.

Also karel has stated the point of neos foundation is supportability of many clients under development based on what people want and the open source community to further development.

I kinda agree, doing nothing when no longer employed doesnt really sound malicious, but it also kinda depends on the contract they had which we have no idea of.
Would be something else if they actively did somethign to harm after like defacing the steam page.

Honestly my biggest hope is that it goes open source. It'd be really difficult for me to justify using reso if neos was updating and open source.

It'd be neat to see a ue5 neos

Those AI NPCs in a world would be absolute amazing

As long as they weren't placements just for a tech demo. When's the next update from karel about the development process I wonder. Neos used to have daily updates about their development.

I mean technically someone had a gpt instance connected to a world, so you'd just need to figure out how to do speech to text, and I know there's a free python libraries to do it. Just would be a matter of figuring out how to pipe the speech to the server.

The next NARA meetup is actually going to be next week

Except it goes against the UE license so it can never happen...

This is what bothered me too, the attempted rewriting history of "we never liked or wanted NCR, it was all Karel's idea" while encouraging people to buy it on the live stream, at events, even using it as rewards for other events, etc. Then so much of the community jumped on this like rabid little dogs, both mindlessly hating everyone that had NCR (ignoring the fact that most the people that held NCR were LITERALLY other long-term Neos community members) and seemingly doing everything they could to shit-talk NCR with a drive to crash it as much as they could, many outright requesting that it just be "removed" entirely, ignoring that people had paid for it, after being encouraged by the team, to support the platform.

That's one of the things that will mean that I can never trust the community as whole again after that, seeing how feral they are and how keen they are to turn on each other.

Idk a large chunk of Internet kinda turned on crypto it wasn't just the community. But I could also see why people playing a game for a while and filling their inventory would get upset when the upkeep cost of it skyrockets because someone else is trying to profit.

But at the same time I do agree that this community can be really fickle.

It was a culture war. I frankly wanted nothing to do with most of the people the buzzwords brought in. It was weird listening to people pitch ideas that were at the very least incredibly irresponsible. Had to explain no less than 8 times that no, we should not try to make an in-Neos interface for metamask, that is a sure-fire way to lose your wallet.

Though the only thing I've ever said negitive about NCR was that I don't like deflationary currencies and that the on and off ramps needed to be streamlined. I generally felt it was a good solution for possibly breaking the payment processer monopolies and ensuring content neutrality. Which I've always considered high priorities and difficult problems to solve.