?

Ayo when is the coin going up?? I sold at 9$ and I want to make more money

🤨

None

What are you talking about? the project is still there and the CEO has vehemently stated that they are not backing down from the project. A rug pull is when a a scammer purposefully cuts and runs with the money. This far from being a rug pull.

All you can do is sit tight. 98% of litigation never makes it to court because it is negotiated between parties beforehand. No news is good news.

None

None

Tonight!

I do not understand no posting media. If I to share image or video from experience in metaverse this is cant happen in this group.

Can only post experience to discord group where all users dislike token

I see CTO and other user online many time for livestream. Never NCR holder gathering in metaverse

Then I'm the exception I guess. I am online in Neos a lot and I'm also holding NCR

If you're smart, you keep the amount of NCR you have a secret

As NCR isn't worth anything much at the moment... I don't know

An NCR holder gathering in Neos would be interesting. 🤩

Why? What would be interesting?

Doesn't even really need to be logix related, can just chill out.

It's not that logix is not a fairly simple visual scripting Language , its that like most of the UI and UX, actually using the system is an unintuitive frustrating experience. Example brought a coder with 30 years of development history and knowledge of multiple coding languages in one time and they were not able to do squat without being "shown" how to use it. There thoughts were that the process itself was convoluted and counter intuitive. It's one of the things that would benefit from being streamlined and simplified, even for vetern users.

We really should have some meet ups in Neos though

Logix is fine but there should be a way to expand on programming usability and scripting using things like c#

Absolutely

Like everything else

The largest priority is the general UI/UX and its functionality

Paradigmatic shifts are hard for veterans, generally. LogiX in particular is interesting. People used to working with state machines for everything have to think a bit differently. Funnily enough I've had a much quicker uptick with people used to hardware description languages. But like, LogiX isn't supposed to be the main language in Neos IIRC. It's supposed to be supplemented with a text based scripting language down the line to allow for more complex interactions more elegantly.

At the moment LogiX is a bit of a bottleneck and gets unwieldy for large projects. It's excellent for showing someone how to directly manipulate values in their avatar though. It's goal is a lot like AppleScript from where I am standing.

Or possibly more akin to HyperCard. Minimal programming knowledge to actionable results.

More likely Object Pascel given the 90s :3

The point was that not they had 30 years of experience. The point was that it was someone who could look at the scripting language itself and understand it fully it going to have an equally difficult time using the tools as a new user, because the tools used to actually put the logix together are completely ass backwards and fucking asinine. The point was that there is nothing wrong with the language itself. But its implementation of how to construct the logix as a UI/UX issue. This was not complex of a point to understand, its concerning concerning you didn't grasp it.

And I am telling that it irrelevant. I only used him as an example to illustrate that the language itself is not issue. But the implementation because I hear the same thing from people with zero scripting experience, and people with six months of experience. Its an awful system. That was the point. Stop focusing on the guy having 30 years experience it was not the point of what I said

I use it as least 3 to four times a week. I built 3 worlds already. I've used logix. I am telling why the platform hemorages people and why people don't spend time in Neos

k?

I don't mind the pick from a pallet UI. I just want a better picker by default. The LogiX tip is a bit of a unqiue beast in terms of it's handeling. Storing a component and double click to place isn't terribly intuitive, I'd prefer dipping behavior akin to the brushes. It would also carry through the pallet metaphor intuitively IMO.

But these are like, small issues. Your reaction is way too hyperbolic IMO @BurningSpaceMan

Good for you, no one cares. Just because you can use logix doesn't other people like the system or want to deal with a convoluted mess regardless of how much they actually understand the language itself. That was the point

Yeah, it shouldn't be unique.

That's bad ui/ux

In addition to the ui/ux its smug furries drive people away from the platform

fight me

Then don't be smug

or condescending, you hypocrite

It's going to have to be to a point. I view the tool tips the same way I'd view an emacs Major mode. The functionalities are going to have to differ just because we're dealing with really limited control assumptions given the standard openxr controller.

Why so the CTO and developers who intentionally made the entire thing obtuse to filter out "the normies" (their literal words) can ignore it? yeah much better use of my time

This is to discuss NCR and I bring these things up because there value will not go up unless the platform is more approachable

To my knowledge there have been jokes thrown around about this but has been clarified by the team this is not true

It literally doesn't function like anything else in the game.

I am not naming names. But over a year ago yes, but specific individuals, did actually tell me that.

Good for you. I'm not the only person that's been told this

I don't know why we should give credence to hearsay when it makes no sense for the project goals.

I don't know we should give credence to anecdotes regular users who think the ui/ux is fine when it literally the number one reason peole try neos and quit. "It's not that bad, I don't mind it" Good for you guys. 90% of people get chased away by it

That's a false equivalence, especially after I just outlined what I view as low hanging fruit for UI improvements.

Disagreeing with UI paradigms is no where near the same as positing the UI is intentionally badly designed to keep it to only a group of insiders.

One is aesthetic, the other is conspiracy thinking.

UI/UX is about usability, and intuitiveness. Not aesthetics.

IT can look like shit and be easily understandable and organized and still be miles better than what it is now

those are aesthetic markers. utilitarianism is a school of aesthetics :)

YIkes that's just word salad right there

literally any other one that the one in Neos.

I could right a novel about how bad implentation is in this game. But I'm not going to do that. But I will answer all the questions. I will make a video about it so can visually illustrate how bad it is

That's another problem. desktop mode is like half done. Desktop mode would operate like an SDK, but instead its just at the desktop version of VR which is so stupid. Its fine for actually navigating and interacting with the world but, building could be so much better by allowing a cree cam and manipulating objects like you would in unity or really any other development platform on the planet.

If desktop mode allowed you to shift in and out of a play mode and a dev mode that operated similar to Second life it attract alot of those professional people

I'm just going a make a video text is not illustrating my properly

Not saying to copy unity. Saying there should be an implementation on desktop that allows me to seperate from my avatar and move around the space

It's another VR platform.

Rec room is what horizen worlds is trying to be but failing miserably at.

It's also more game then development platform

Something different than freecam mode?

And if you use the loosest criteria for a metaverse, Rec Room is also the largest one in history and available on the most platforms

I'm just trying to figure out what they are envisioning. I can't comment on the quality of desktop mode stuff, I don't use it.

THe desktop experience is literally the same as VR without the 6 DoF. Everything still uses the laser and context menus. ANd having an SDK isn't a bad thing. It wouldn't replace the versatility of doing things in VR, but accent the current workflow. especially if you spend hours building something then look at it in VR and realize this one thing is an inch or two above where you want in and are just able to quickly change it while live. That is the real power of Neos. and SDK wouldn't dminish that

My interest is in exploring 3D UI design, as it's a bit of an unknown ATM :)

It literally isn't

and it doesn't need to be 3D it just needs to not be stupid

How can I have an opinion on it when it has not been publicly released?

I agree with you an this.

When its in Open beta I will take a look at it. I don't use the patron because I really don't need the space. ( I optimize the stuff I put in the cloud)

You assume the team is going to be around in the future. Which I strongly feel won't be the case

*giggles* man you are just a contrarian aren't you? :) I've been experimenting with 3D UIs since 2015, including attempts to get 3D Vr window managers long before we had any degree of standardization for 3D input devices. The field is still very much in flux, especially with people experimenting with various forms of hand tracking and the question of mass market datagloves still unanswered.

These are, in fact, the new horizons of human computer interfaces. Neos is about as close as anyone has gotten so far to any degree of widely used general purpose VR computing enviroment as much as people keep wanting to stick it into the Social VR pigeonhole. This is my primary interest in the platform.

Would you like to address me again without the creepy and condescending asterisks at the beginning? Then I might actually consider reading what you wrote after it and responding.

It's like talking a to a teenager on msn in the late 90s Christ

I'm not terribly interested to be honest. You've been less than insightful and I am doubting you are engaging in good faith.

Then don't address me.

You're free to exit the conversation, but have little control over how I choose to conduct myself :)

Funny how I do and its called 'Block'

You uh... been using telegram long?

feel free to add me in world. You seem rational enough to actually have a discussion with, regardless of varying viewpoints

Ahh heard the alert say the typing, but thankfully no message

and that's absolutely fair, and healthy

that's what discussion is for

Hmm? I didn't ask him to leave it.

I think someone who uses *giggles* without understanding its creepyness and condescending tone isn't going to grasp that

Didn't suggest he did either :) I just outlined the options that didn't require mind control.

Istill have faith in the project, even if there is a split, what ever goes forward will have a lot less baggage

Absolutely this. The issue isn't the learning curve. It's how STEEP that curve is. The majority of the active community has been here for years and is used to the idiosyncrasies that drive away new users.

That are practically blind to it, and hand wave the issues off

That is what I am a proponent of

that have not shown any professional demenor in the past months and on that alone they should be sacked. Froox as talented as he is as a coder, is an absolutely awful CTO, and barely fills that roll. There has to be some level of corporate function even for what Froox envisions to manifest. It's naïve to believe otherwise

I'm more of the opinion that there isn't another project that's trying to do the same thing. Like, maybe Simula, but it's really not anywhere near the same given the networked enviroment thing Neos has going. We can likely crib notes from other projects with regard to the default UIs, which we've seen with items like the Ring of the Neolander but as we start moving to the periphery of the development side of things there just isn't anything else out there that is providing a more general purpose computing enviroment like Neos.

he would thrive there

That's the real issue, neos is really the only game in town wit ha VR experience. The only thing that would be it is if MAGICAlLLY second life were to be able to smoothly intergrate VR (which they technically can't)

NEOS is very much as functional alpha state despite what people in the community say. Beta's are near ready as releases of viable products. Neos has extrodinary potential there, but its no where near a beta state.

Of course not, but I am not referring the commercialization. when I say product.

But how a consumer/User is able to utilize the platform effectively.

None of the Devs maybe but Karel was and is definitely on board with that, along with a lot of board members and a decent portion of the community.

The Japanese Community is definitely for this.

I don't think it's failing at it's goals. Like, I can just browse to an arbitrary file on my computer, import it, and have a good chance to just start interacting with it meaningfully with in game tools. (would be easier with collections, but I diagress :P) It may not be seeing wide user adoption, and that's something we can work toward, but it is the only game in town if you want to manipulate computer files in VR.

I unblocked you, There are literally a lot of applications that let you manipulate "computer files" in VR They are just not Social VR applications or "Metaverses"

It's like what he is describing is WMR. like thats its only function. Along with like Dozens of VR blender alternatives. You take away the social VR and metaverse aspect of Neos and its a mediocre dev platform for that Unity can do better the multi-user social aspect and community potential is literally its core strength

I've not found any that have any real expandability in terms of their like, core function. I'm not saying there aren't painting programs for VR, I'm saying there isn't a general purpose enviroment, which Neos does provide, as jank as it may be. We can just interact with arbitrary data, throw logix at it, and have a meaningful interface for just about anything.

All of which can be done with Unity 2022 and C# Alt-space literally does the same thing as well now just not as versatile

To be clear, I don't think this is the concept that will sell Neos. I'm saying that this is what neos is doing that maters in the long term. I can't really do just normal computing tasks in VRchat. But I can just hit a web API endpoing in neos and grab the data from it, or quickly snipp together an audio clip.

Yeah, you can go back and extend a unity application to handle a file, but it's not a bootstrapped solution. It's a bit like the early iOS ecosystem. iOS was always a periphery ecosystem, requiring the existence and use of external ecosystems relegating its use to mostly pda type interactions. Then, as it matured, it saw more and more utility programs culminating in the release of the iPad Pro, which is aimed at a professional market.

At the moment VR is a perephery ecosystem, and I don't think that's where the future of it as a medium lies. Neos treats VR interfaces as a first class citizen, which makes it interesting. It makes it a platform that I could realisticly see expanding into a stand alone computing enviroment. Unity isn't going to be trying to navigate a VR first design any time soon, which makes sense honestly. I don't think we're ever going to get rid of the desktop paradigm entirely, it's a very useful one. But I do think that 3D 6DoF interfaces should be explored as primary computing platforms.

The networked nature of neos is /also/ a cool development I think is essential in the next major computing paradigm, yes. It's honestly weird to me that we haven't seen much in terms of like, tightly integrated collaboration tools on the traditional desktop. Though maybe that is what the web-first paradigm is addressing?

"Jesse what the hell are you talking about"

What part is confusing you?

The where you think the metaverse is not the aspect that will sell the neos METAVERSE

I don't think most people understand the core of 'the metaverse' concept. They likely won't, until it's obvious. Like most revolutions in computing. Right now, most people seem to think it means Disney Universe, but with more franchises and honestly that's probably going to sell better.

Never have I needed that Blinking reaction gif more than I do right now

Are you honestly perplexed or just haven't thought about the relationship between killer apps and platforms?

The/a popularizing element of a given platform, usually specifically a piece of software built on top of it that justifies investing in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application has an extensive list of examples.

That's a pretty good thumbnail XD

Well, I did summize it for you! I have a pet peve about just linking wikipedia entries :< They are useful but they feel dismissive.

I'm honestly perplexed as why you have a habit of constantly ranting about things no one was talking about or referring to. Neos is a metaverse, and comparing other Metaverse platforms is rational. But you keep talking about it like its a development tool that is useful outside of developing for itself. Which is literally the point of it. TO develop for the metaverse inside the metaverse. If it isn't a metaverse there are literally VR apps that do what you can do in Neos but more specialized to different aspects, and on that note. DEsktop applications that don't need VR to be effective. I honestly don't see you trying to make any point beyond taking an opportunity to rant about irreelvant things like Disney and interacting with files on your computer. That was not what anyone was talking about.

yep

There is a general purpose environment for everything. It's called a computer.

I'm not trying to be mean its just, not relevant to anything anyway said or was discussing and it always derails the conversation

IT doesn't need to be a development tool for anything outside of itself. Building it to be so would kill it off completely

And the computer was once interfaced with a command line. Then, the desktop metaphor was developed and became the dominent metaphor for 2d computer interfaces. Then, the direct manipulation multitouch metaphor was developed and becomes the dominent metaphor for mobile computer interfaces. Now, we are developing a 3D 6dof metaphor.

Neos represents to me a networked, 3D 6dof computing environment. Everyone seems to forget that the metaverse isn't a separate thing. It's an emergent property of computing becoming ubiquitous. If anything is going to usher in that paradigm it needs to be as general purpose as it can be. Needs to be at home equally hosting a full VR experience or augmenting reality. Needs to be able to support casual entertainment tasks as well as professional applications.

What it is to you specifically what what it is designed to be are two different things. Sorry but this is just more word salad. A metaverse has a definition now In its current meaning, metaverse generally refers to the concept of a highly immersive virtual world where people gather to socialize, play, and work. No one is using it in any other way. No one wants to use Neos or is going to care without the Social VR aspect of Neos. That's literally the core of it. Without that the Building in VR is useless and no one really cares. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Anyway I am out for the night, take care

You're demonstrating why I said I didn't think the concept is the one that would sell Neos :)

The funny thing is, you vehemently didn't understand what I was talking about or referencing to begin with.

Like this entire time.

True! I don't think any of these paradigms disappear. Though it /is/ possible to fully engage with a computer without dropping into he command line. We had the Macintosh as the sort of proof of the pudding on that one, no CLI at all.

99% of the population are looking for an experience not a development tool. They will eventually end up using those tools if they come to Neos as it is a core part of the platform. But that 1% who are looking for a development platform are not going to pick neos just as a development tool. and A small portion of the one percent. Like less than 50 people, you among them would look at neos as strictly a tool for development and not as a social platform that lets you build as a community. FFS there is literally a monthly event centered around this.

It's the entire draw of the platform to begin with

I don't look at it strictly as a development platform. to the contrary, I think the interesting part about it is that it doesn't compartmentalize the development platform from the social platform. I know that 99% of people don't care about the abstract space it enables. They will care about the things that are made on top of it. E.G. The Metamove project. Those are the concrete applications that will sell the platform.

So in otherwords YOU DON'T disagree that is what sells the platform

Jesus

I think moving forward it's going to be important to foster new in-world communities outside of the homogenous existing userbase. Having a diverse in-world culture is part of what makes The Metaverse special and it will directly impact the new user onboarding process. A group of highly technical furry logix coders standing around in Sync Lounge isn't exactly the most welcoming day-1 experience and I this is something we can start solving now as a community, even while things are being sorted behind the scenes.

This

No one cares if you use apache or nginx to serve your website. You might choose one or the other based on its characteristics, but the engine is invisable to the end user.

This literally has nothing to do at all with what anyone was talking about. 🙊

You act like you don't understand why I say the aspects that interest me in the platform won't sell it, then get confused when I explain what aspects I do think will sell it. XD Neos is the current best bet for the next computing paridigm. That won't sell it, just like Windows 95 making developer's life easier by introducing the direct x APIs didn't sell Windows 95.

I get what he's saying - but the thing that makes Neos special is the dynamic and persistent malleability of the world from within the world. Developing for something like VRChat is very asynchronous and you don't have any level of real-time collaboration. Neos is an incredibly ambitious project because it's basically combining Unity and VRChat into a unified product, which is exactly what a user generated Metaverse should be.

*nods*

Probably because the aspects that you say interest you in the platform are exactly the ones I say are not the selling point in the first place. And are not the point of the patform Then you go off a weird rant about disney and API's that had nothing to do with the conversation.

Thank you

Stop. Using. Asterisks.

No. It's how I express myself and I'm not about to change it just to conform to your expectations of decorum.

At the end of the day, Frooxius should have never severed ties with Karel because there is no clean or legal way to do so while also preserving the integrity of Neos. NCR has been a foundational part of the project for years and that's not a bell you can un-ring. They were wrong to start this coup and it's not going to end how they think it will.

We'll see. It's bad that it's come to this, and i'm sort of not super hot on the future of the platform atm. But like. *shrug!* It's too cool of an idea not to do! We'll see something, hopefully in a way that doesn't make all of our work here a waste.

I'm really hoping they settle out of court. Mediation was really what was necessary here, hopefully their lawyers are managing to give them some of that.

if it goes to court then like... honestly I don't see too much shaking out in the pro column for Neos.

I don't think either of them acted in a way that would justify piercing the corporate veil in terms of liability. Like, that's sort of the reason you incorporate. I don't think the Neos platform survives in the corporate divorce scenario, which I am sort of thinking is the way this will shake out if they don't settle out of court.

If it goes to court, I think liquidation. If it's settled out of court, no clue!

None

Maybe! :) I just... don't know.

Seems like they are both dug in quite deep, and for genuinely held beliefs. A large part of me respects that too much to imagine anything other than them sticking to their guns.

I think Decentraland is damaging the image of “the metaverse”

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/05/02/first-mover-asia-why-the-metaverse-is-a-potemkin-village/

The media is loosing faith because they think “the metaverse” is Decentraland

Many negative news about “the metaverse”

Where’s Neos!?

Needs a new word to refer to those things, we use the word Metaverse for

Cyberspace? :3 :3

Not bad

None

Karel Hello???

Apple

Do you think is Apple pushing the dead of the metaverse?

They are Facebook, competitors… No friends with Elon Musk… Maybe Apple is trying to build a new kind of social network based in MR

Lol

Has CTO responded? Is there update?

None

Hello!

Hello

https://apple.news/A8mMBKqWtRYyPXo6cMrD2IA

There you have it

Apple and other companies could have a complot to destroy metaverse tech efforts

Sounds like conspiracy theory 😂

I don't think the direction or assumption is wrong, because I think companies are seeing the obvious stuff like generations spending more time behind avatars and 3d space being the next form of the explorable net, but I def agree that the way companies are going into it feels destined to fail (if theyre even being sincere)

but if they are being sincere in some weird way I guess Im usually on the side of wanting to see what will happen

"old man yells at clouds"

User generated content worlds go against Apple's ethos of having full control of every aspect the user experience. Their app store developer terms are borderline draconian and they heavily curate anything they didn't create in-house.

An apple Metaverse would likely be so incredibly sterile, corporate, and difficult to contribute content to - that it would fail to gain traction or have any kind of meaningful revenue model. It's the raw and imperfect organic humanity that makes worlds like Neos special.

Yeah. Generally, I don't think walled garden approaches are going to go anywhere interesting and I don't see apple walking away from a paradigm that has put them on top of the world.

They will likely pivot once the concept has shown maturity though. They are generally pretty good about that :P

Tony Fadell has not worked at Apple for 14 years.

You mean Tony Fadell? Sure, his opinions are his own.

Who is the administrator, @ I have a question

I have try

No news

None

Can you contact Karel?

neos CEO

Hello, how can I reset my password? I forgot it :(

I cannot

Because he promised to deal with my 3000usdt for half a year, I haven't been able to contact him recently

You mint usdc not eth by accident?

I transferred usdt to the wrong address. I need the project party to transfer it back

Which wrong address?

Was it actually 3500 USDT about 160 days ago?

What do you mean by wrong address? And isn't USDT on a different network than ERC20?

It makes sense. That’s why Apple will try to drawn us with AR. Consumable digital content we can pay for.

that's the whole team lol 🤔

I mean, regression is inevitable with a new dev team given the lack of unit tests XD Hell, we get them now even with the lead dev at the helm :P

Considering a lot of stuff has to be written from the ground up anyway including the render engine. A new dev team isn't that much of a hurdle. For Neos and NCR to have a future the platform needs to have Quest compatibility.

Lol what exploitation? The funds that was raised through the ICO?

Why would anyone pick chunky pasta sauce over garlic?

I see you missed the point here.

I agree the CTO should have done his job. The Dev teams employment wasn't CEOs responsibility.

Because he is the CTO. That's literally what a CTO does

Why would some one choose bread and butter pickles over dill?

"crypto infested" - i.e., thousands of people who believed in the platform and gave millions in funding for the project

fuck off

Just like there is no perfect pasta sauce only perfect pasta sauces. The same goes for social VR. There are people who will try them all and prefer Horizens. That just boils down to preference. And some that don't know a platform is what they are looking for until they try it

the "benefit" was the millions of dollars in funding you dumbass

While you are right we should keep the insulting out of this lest we end up like the discord

because the furries blew it the fuck up

For all we know any developing could be on hold by attorneys advice until things get sorted. It's not beneficial speculate

It probably won't because I personally know these people and can tell you bonelab isn't a metaverse. It's just a game.

The dumb in this statement in mind boggling. Do you think Bezos personally hires every single person in this company or do you just not understand the core concept of a corporation?

https://images.app.goo.gl/o6JmS4GMv7rjbfPc6

I swear it's like some people in this chat have never been employed.

And?

The CEOs job is to hire executive level staff

That why he is the Cheif executive officer

And since froox insisted on being CTO and managing technical development it's his responsibility to take care of that hiring. And ensuring that his "volunteers" are proper employed.

🍿

What do YOU think it means?

No I'm saying a CEO shouldn't be involved in the hiring process of people he is not directly governing. It's the CTO's job to make sure there is a lead developer and and an organized team. I would be wrong for me to comment further beyond that since I have no first hand knowledge of the agreement between the two regarding equity and c-level positions. But traditionally it is the CTO that is directly in charge of ensuring their lead devs managers and junior devs all have NDAS and contracts.

You do realize that's irrelevant, many start ups in the same field are established with wildly different distributions of equity and c-level job positions from start up to start up. Being a tech start up or any kind of start up do not have a cookie cutter established way of incorporation. Sometimes founders and CEO's have the less than 25 % equity because they sell their share to hire a board.

And?

Then go do that and stop crying and subjecting us to your whinging.

Literally no good reason for you not to do that. You can literally sell your wares any where you want and if you're not on multiple market places you're kind of a bad businessman when it comes to asset creation.

None of us actually really care where you work.

oh no the horror

We all do want to see it do well. But whinging in the telegram isn't going to aid that effort. But in the mean time of you want to be involved in VRchat or alt space, I say go for it.

I'm a proponent of cross pollination

sorry you dont have the spine to stand up to an angry and dumb crowd on socials who werent going to play the damn game anyway

Probably by hiring a competent CTO.

more like you'll just blame it on the ICO and cryptobros or something. This fantasy that if you scam and excise the crypto doners that everyone will flock to show support is not only dumb, its spineless

I already addressed this. Perhaps work a little on your reading comprehension. I don't personally know what was in their articles of incorporation. Froox has equity. And having 50% equity makes getting fired tricky but not impossible. Depending on that. And it's not my place to say or speculate on.

[Citation needed]

sorry

the shitty solirax corporate structure is kind of a joke that we're all forcing ourselves to take seriously

it was two guys living with a parent

Only when there is a board that has equity. The equity is split between two people. But that has nothing. To do with their roles in the corporate structure.

this is childish discord drama. Simple as that.. what makes it absurd is that a few thousand people are being dragged throigh the mud because some former roommates cant agree on which of their discord cuddlebuddies are allowed to be fired or something

and they apparently are so up their own asses they cant talk it out

if karel was a furry this whole thing wouldnt have happened

you KNOW thats true

I base it on my interaction with them before this whole situation.

It's absolutely true they would not even speak to me until I put on a furry avatar

Like back in 2020

they would have VR booped each others noses or whatever furries do and made up within a day or two

you are a genious

What in the name of Christ is going on here?

A lack of moderation and the people who usually derail discussions doing so.

It usually starts out that way

Lmao

like I'm just tickled as shit at the thought of karel showing up with a fursona

None

the thing is though, im not even playing around when I think that would've changed things

I don't think it would have helped honestly. Karel is a virtual unknown because he doesn't really use the platform. I got to see him for all of 15 minutes during an award ceremony. Never got to hear him wax poetic about his vision for the project, or really ever see him out of PR mode. I think the only other staff members I can say that about are Outsider and Andrea.

I saw his talk on YouTube about his vision for Neos

I think the CEO should be focused on the company surviving the challenges of real world, especially when they're struggling to keep the lights on

That's one way to look at it. Doesn't change the fact he had next to no presence in the playerbase community when this went down. The situation would not likely change unless he did. The truth is, keeping the lights on isn't a good rhetorical position when the playerbase feels like they've been covering the bill.

Yes, and I'm saying what you want is community staff not tasks for CEO

Just watch the presentation on YouTube, that's available for all, or read the whitepaper if you don't yet know his vision for Neos

That might be true in a larger company. This was never a large company. The level of compartmentalizing people seem to think should have been in place doesn't follow with the basic facts of Neos' existance.

I have. He still was never in game, unlike the other staff. Have you heard the term 'culture fit'?

Sorry, I don't have time for this as won't Karel

I know :P

I mean, you laugh, but is that an inaccurate summery of the state of things?

*shrug* yeah, it's pretty absurd. Though I'd argue it's moreso for the stage than the happenings. This sort of small project dynamic isn't terribly uncommon, but it got catapulted into the spotlight and put on a rhetorical pedistol with fortune 500s.

What are you basing this on exactly?

Whether he had a fursona or not id still not support him completely in the current state myself

If he showed up on neos more.. Was more active in the community.. And didn't have fundamentally different visions from what neos is to alot of people who actually use it

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at the fact you're saying this yet also share like 20 nsfw groups with me.

But I mean, I use neos to create a ton fo stuff I find cool

Thank you

Pog
Have u ever played neos even

Have you ever seen how many furries are on telegram

Telegram has been heavily associated with furries for years

Because furries love stickers

You didn't even try to prove me wrong you just resorted to insults ahahaha

He is trolling and insulting constantly, better try to ignore it

It's just kinda funny I guess x3

I just still think the most amusing thing is the horny furry in the neos chat complaining that horny furries play neos

Welp. He also turning new users away, hurting the platform as Karel has implemented a rushed site with only this TG channel clearly visible.
So he is basicly hurting himself by killing growth.

That happened to a friend too x.x
Now it just gives you a 404 for some reason, before it worked out fine

Ahahahah true uwu;
But if horny furries play neos that explains why you play neos ahahhaa

Wait you can't?

Wtf lol

Yeah like Wtf lmao

So fucking many

I love making stuff on it

The website really should be rolled back to the old one, as that one was working fine.

Agreed, its so weird that the new one 404s

Imagine if Tizzy deletes or unpublishes that video. It will be a 404 frame on the website than

Hi @Pikey please I would refrain from such accusations if you can as these are serious allegations and Neos absolutely does not support such activities. Thank you.

User get remove with issues about platform but obvious troll is given warning

Please remove trolls

There's practically nobody under 18 on neos at all even

Most people go to Vrchat, but neos is very confusing to get into, younger people tend to be less motivated since there's not much of a reason

So that's not true in so many ways

Neos is a metaverse - it's a social experience and still relatively new. All of the current companies/metaverses that are trying to make it happen as far as I know, have this problem to tackle - how to go about user safety, privacy and minimising risks of illegal behaviour - especially where vulnerable groups or children are concerned. So we have to find some ways of incentivising better behaviour and creating safer experience if you like. But it's something that is much bigger than Neos - as there are currently no real regulations and protective measures that could still comply with the need for confidentiality and privacy. It's something that will require a lot more research in my opinion but it will be extremely important if we are ever to go fully mainstream.

You are not investor, you are troll

Nobody is throwing nobody under the bus:). I don't see how safe metaverse and profitable product are mutually exclusive. If anything surely it is better for everyone to have a platform you can trust?

Many actual investors want troll pikey removed

Andrea troll

Unless people start shitting the bed here and shit post about how NCR is evil or making personal attacks on the people involved, they should have a right to speak here. This is a telegram for NCR investors. If they invested in NCR or hold any they should be here,

It also says Neos Credits at the top of the channel, but go ahead and argue with me while I am literally telling pikey to screw off in your defense

"The official Neos Metaverse Telegram group"

All welcome

Need media posting so we can post image from in metaverse

Absolutely planning on it as I now have a 3080ti. I’d be happy to send Karel and Andrea the source video file as well to publish on the official Neos YouTube channel if people are more comfortable with that vs it being on my personal channel. 💜

It's something I have been doing write ups on and getting research together for for months now. From a liability perspective "Adult content is not-allowed" is a pretty good way to go. It doesn't tie your hands up with guidelines when actions need to be taken. Protects the company from liability and And you can't really police what adults do consensually in private instances anyway. This is the path VRchat takes and reporting through the proper channels results in immediate action within minutes.

It's kind of a don't show and don't tell approach. AS for Safety and and dealing with children, that is a question with multiple answers. But just like in real life it relies on all adults taking responsibility and speaking up and taking action when they see something that is not kosher happening.

Many user complain about sexual things I don't think users like video because it done by sexual person

What video? TIzzy's?

what's wrong with people who care about things other people do in private? don't be a bad person by invading their privacy

Literally no one suggested that

He's probably generalizing because I used a furry avatar to record the video.

None

Probably

Damn this chat heated

I hope everyone is having a good day and had something good to eat recently 😊

Who are the officials of this project? I need to contact your CEO. He promised that my 3000usdt has not been given to me

I've heard it put well before, but I wouldn't expect the CEO of discord to be hanging out in it chatting with kids. And the whole point being made feels more like trying to justify exclusionary behavior. Or create problems that are artificial.

and to be honest, I feel like almost all of the problems Neos is facing are social ones.

and it will never sit well with me that to gang up on some (who definitely has been involved in Neos growth) over issues like that

You know there were minting transactions aswell that slipped and Karel needed to be notified about them to process?

Do you have the transaction ID of that?

I'll talk about you in private

Add my friends thank you

There is no such thing as friends in telegram

I can't send you a message. You set up privacy

actually I don't have privacy set that way, everyone can message me

I can only send messages to mutual contacts

I see, maybe cause all transactions are public on the blockchain anyway, could it probably be this transaction? https://etherscan.io/tx/0x05098111df0e06088d80c6c00ddd71a26113f62a4f07d0ac4fd8e54c14a64e07

yep

That's it

Are you a member of the team? Did he tell you about it

None

No, it was an educated guess.

Well, I contacted their team and asked me to contact Karel, but he promised me several times and didn't return it to me until now

What should I do

Well, I am very sorry, but it is technically impossible to recover those funds. That money is effectively burned

If you would get those funds back, that'd be out of curtesy and paid from their own money. But the USDT of that transaction are irrevocable

It should be proposed from the public chain contract

He told me I could get it back, but it was a little troublesome and needed to be handled with technology. On February 3, he told me to give it to me in another week, but I can't contact him until now

I'm very sorry for those bad news. It's the technical implications of how blockchains and especially contracts work

Well, thank you for your answer. I just want to contact him to ask about the progress

None

I like neos

Same

You could try using a virtual machine?

Any news, anyone?

If NCR will go up by just a dollar or two I'll be happy. If it goes up to $4 or more I'll be ecstatic!

That's all I ask, hecc

lost $3k on NCR.... gone gone gone

a lot of people got wrecked

if he comes around I'll try to tell him to message you

I don't know the details of the minting contract, and what happened to the funds in a technical sense

Thank you.

It's all visible on the blockchain and can be investigated by everyone

Andrea Sadly spam

None

:D We've made it! 🏆

NCR is basically free money. Especially when you sell at 9$ 💸💸💸

Not sure if the price will go up again at this rate 🤔🤔

What's the point of keep on making fun of ppl. I don't get it my dude :/

I didn't?? If you feel that way, I apologize..

No need to be if you didn't ;) that's fine, maybe it is my ptsd from the big drop when the mocking campaign happened lol 🥲😅

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patient

karel doing things right?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

well ncr is super strong in supporting price now. just be patient.. for 1 year :)

he's of course trying to get his kicks, just he's too sheepish to actually get some trolling in so it comes out weird

Hey guys, haven’t popped in for a while. Is there any development that I hopefully have missed?

I've already apologized, I'm not trolling anybody.. Please refrain from making accusatory assumptions. All I wish is the best for NCR and Neos. Thank you

Yes, users continue to create in Neos.

I see that software development is still at halt and there doesn’t seem to be updates from Karel as well.

None

None

None

maybe that will lubricate their intended split somehow

Moving away from Unity is going to cause a lot more problems than it will solve imo - especially if they plan on integrating custom shader support.

Open source is a noble long-term goal but I think there are a lot of important foundational functions that need to be implemented before pushing for that.

Including a team that isn’t trying to stage a coup d'etat against the CEO.

Not sure what those problems would be, and it feels like Geenz has good ideas for the future of metaverse-graphics, wouldnt it be better to have more dynamic shaders than unity? There will be some problems no doubt, but I feel like we would be progressing here.
What kind of important short term graphics goals do you look towards?

Well, old mono had that problem, with the boemgc

and I just see why unity might stick to boehm for gc. Especially because it doesn't compact memory

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Patreon should be dropped entirely for a more cost efficient subscription service. Also a majority of the rewards should be axed. The focus should be more on providing Storage and Headless hosting options as the average Joe doesn't own their own server rack nor wants to go through the hassle of going to third party hosts to set one up.

As far as time goes, maybe there's... plenty...because there's nothing else going on, hard to say. Organization wise, not sure either, I imagine the organization of Neos code is already a scramble considering the amount of outside implementations/libraries there are. It's a little confusing when you mention "team" in terms of the graphics development, because as far as I understand, we have only Geenz working on that. I don't find the graphics hauling the rest of the devs down due to that. And like Firr, I do not understand what you are trying to say about solving issues/unity not at fault

I mostly would like a response from Tizzy, as I really want to know the details of their issues with moving away from unity.

All I know is whoever thought SSAO, differed rendering, and the abysmal bloom ratio in VR was a good idea shouldn't be involved in building the new render engine.

What's scary?

Ah possibly. They're pretty crazy smart though, I'll give them that

It isn't

None

Headlesses aren't 100% needed... but I'd be down for that. Would be neat to have services that just spin up headless servers like you can go to say Digital Ocean and request a web server for a few hours. Would be pretty snazzy

dealt with them on a professional manor myself years back and also had them poking other projects I was involved with. They're fairly solid

He was being sarcastic.

There's also one other issue with using a major engine as the backbone to a project, and that is feature delays. Say Oculus/Meta/Whoever releases their new headset and it has... controllable fans on it. The fans can be used to simulate wind or whatever. Well, for it to work, you need the functions for it to work with the engine... and some engines might not have the minimal stuff to even support the feature. So you have to wait on the engine to update so you can use the new feature.

A lot of people in this chat have poor reading comprehension. Sometimes I think it would be better if you wrote your responses in C#

😂

We couldn't tell

oh absolutely. It's also arguable the other way around: why remake the wheel and you know, at some point, the bigger folks will already do that. I mean, we do live in a world where engines compete to have the latest and greatest, so developers win in the end anyway.

I think it boils down to neither Unity or Unreal are honestly 'metaverse' core engines, so to speak. For making games with predictable situations or loading some levels of custom content, they work great.
But as people have pointed out, under the hood, it isn't ideal in the long run. Having bigger scope of everything requires an engine that, at the moment, really doesn't exist. It's not that Unity is bad, but I wouldn't rely on it to make an operating system, for example

yeah... especially with that last part. Some projects were outright put to rest when the framework they relied on removed a feature they were fully reliant on. But because they were using said framework for... everything, it made it difficult or even impossible to migrate to something else to keep the feature.

@morolian Unity isn't really used for it's engine, just the rendering pipeline. The switch is a long term project, but why not switch to The Forge? It's a much more modern pipeline and has a lot of big players in its ecosystem.

where is Karel?

None

None

Is ncr dead?

how did the saga between the 2 co-founders end?

I should have turned on my VPN and Incognito mode before searching that 🤮

Give a warning next time man

I t was less assertive and more condescending. TBH

But how about we stop bitching and moaning at each other over who is or isn't a coder. No one else in this chat cares about this take it to PM's

If you please

Trying to eat my fruit salad in peace

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

I refuse to acknowledge anybody who thinks that removing Karel from his own company is a viable solution, something that is neither possible nor ethical.

Yo I have 265.3125 ncr in my metamask and I kinda wanna get rid of it as I'm done with neos. Currently it's valued at $100.95 according to metamask and I'm willing to sell it all for $65

Anyone interested?

i'll give you $65 in NCR for it

bruh

But I would hold it because ncr is up 3.74% over 7 days while ETH is down 4%

I have around 400 and I am going to hold it

I just want it gone tbh

Up due to the buyback, which is dropping the whole time

Well then try selling on an exchange

Not sure how much you would get out of it, but could try to sell it via metamask into eth and then out or on an exchange (Which I still havent done yet)

I might be interested

hate to see the place get toxic but when so many are getting scammed by a developer so callously while a community acts as a buffer to dehumanize those getting scammed, there's really no room for being cordial

I wouldn't call it a scam. Everything regarding the Token was done in good faith on Karel's part. They did not plan on a surge in value from Facebook connect 2021 driving the Metaverse into the public Zeitgeist and in front of investors. They also didn't plan on the unfortunate recent events regarding internal strife. The money raised from minting is still there ready to be used for platform development and operations. It's just right at this moment nothing can really be done until both Karel and Froox come to an agreement. on how to move forward. Just because you made an investment and the value of that investment went down, doesn't constitute a scam. Also calling it is not good rhetoric to spread around.

If Meta never made that announcements NCR would still be on a steady incline. Scams are intentional take the money are run cases. Which this clearly isn't

I respect your opinion and agree about many things, but the notion that they thought it was acceptable to attempt a sweeping under the rug of NCR as "third party" is in my opinion certainly a scam. This has nothing to do with the price imo.

Has to do with they want all of the benefits of operating as a company (including wanting to vote out their CEO) yet none of the responsibilities of being a company, including their promise to support the token they sold for I don't know how many years.

Oh we are on the same page about that.

The rhetoric isn't mine, it's theirs of "NCR was Karel's doing, we don't have any responsibility" which doesn't make sense when they want to take control of the project and then establish a community of 24/7 smear discussions and misinformation spreaders to justify the defrauding of thousands

I misinterpreted what you meant by developers, since those people to my understanding are not employees or contractors but community volunteers who volunteered code and work for Froox.

Honest mix up on my part

They get by being called all sorts of things like "the devs" or "the team"

They literally are neither

And its so widely known outside of Neos in the industry at this point that it isn't something they can even put on a resume

you mean the volunteer work on Neos?

No I mean beign the "Neos Team" like this whole debacle has become infamous.

People who work in VR at many game studios, Microsoft WMR, Meta Reality labs, and HTC are fully aware of who they are. It not a good thing for them

Reading back in the chatlogs on Discord it's pretty clear that the team was very much onboard with NCR before December. ProbablePrime even had a chart projecting where he saw the token heading in the future and they were all incredibly invested on a daily basis. I watched their entire tune change in real-time when Karel started embracing his role as CEO with executive decisions like bringing in Andrea as COO.

The thing that really started this entire situation was the moment Karel announced that he had onboarded an outside developer to build the website, which was immediately met with pushback from the team - and ultimately they started strategically sinking NCR to edge Karel out like in typical furry project fashion. Unfortunately for them this isn't Second Life and real world law applies. The only thing they've managed to do is damage Neos and probably their own careers.

"the team"

Yeah we should really stop using that term. I think "The volunteers" is probably more apt.

Thats interesting atleast. I think they're counting on being able to spin it as "crypto bad" or "look what crypto did to our game" to external online discussion because there certainly are affinity groups who will believe anything anti crypto and would love their badguy narrative as is pretty obvious with their toe-sucking community

Oh absolutely , they might be able to apply for jobs with their Real life names but they def won't get anywhere placing Neos on their resume at this point.

In the end it's not about their ideological aversion to crypto. They are leveraging anti-crypto rhetoric with the intention of using it to demonize Karel so they can take over the project.

The Professional VR community is extremely small and word travels fast.

Which is not something HR looks kindly on during the hiring process.

It's like imagine being a dev for AOL in the 90s and then doing something publicly toxic just as the dot.com boom starts so you end up black listed by every modern internet company for the next twenty years from, yahoo! to google and everything inbetween

that's pretty much what they achieved here.

what careers they just volunteers should just go away no one will ever paid for volnuteering go back to fast food belong

I wouldn't know, I don't even know how supposedly impressive the quality of their work is. If I'm to believe the discord, everyone is a genius who has put in tremendous amounts of hard work. But 've learned to disregard literally everything the community says as it's always motivated bullshit

Well AOL is not that impressive either. But being able put "metaverse" on your resume during a new industry boom with many companies looking to hire people with that experience. But it not even about that, its that the events have become infamous that it would be hard to put the work they did on a resume for anything development related just because no one would hire people that behave that way

And when did you apply for the job?

Everyone has seen them. They were very gung ho on NCR

yea everyone beleive already no need

I wouldn't know about all that. The idea of them getting rewarded for such a malicious scam is offputting, but I can't help but imagine them being able to dress up the situation in a certain light... But I'm completely ignorant on tech hiring. I'm mostly interested in legal implications over all of this

I'm not really sure it matters for their hiring prospects. At least for any of the volunteers with code access, they are currently gainfully employed elsewhere in the field.

Like imagine trying to gaslight a chat with 300 people who watched the 180 in attitude happen in real time

My citation is being in the board meeting in December and seeing it happen in real-time.

My god either you literally don't have reading comprehension or your purposefully being contrarian. They didn't come out and Say "we are turning on NCR" FIrst they were pro NCR then they were not. Jesus.

ignorance

It's like talking to that kid in elementary school whose "uncle works for nintendo" so oblivious to the fact that everyone can smell their bullshit

Personally I see no reason not to believe their motivations as outlined in their signed statements.

I remember the change in attitude though it's fuzzy because for the whole time the community was pissing itself ovee crypto once crypto became a hot button issue, adding alot of noise

THis literally has fuck all to do with anything anyone is talking about

you talk from furry standpoint

This has literally fuck all with anything anyone is talking about right now

I don't think that's much of a purposeful product repositioning. I think some balls were dropped.

By the way you still have not answered my question, when did you apply for your job

I'm sure they want to get rid of Karel. I just think that their reasons may not be so genuine.

I have no reason to doubt her.

Don't just take my word for it. Ask anybody present who isn't neck deep in the furry cabal.

I've never been one not to take someone at their word when it comes to their own experience and motivations. They are generally truly the only authority on those maters.

It would help if they would not be so cryptic about what actually took place, because what has been revealed seems very mild by my standards, yet we're supposed to pretend its earth shattering

the worst is apparently Karel telling Geenz that he was blackmailing him, which sounds definitely very rude but also built on misunderstandings possibly

Don't you have some diapers to piss in?

I petition for 'furry herd' as the new conspiracy name. Cabal isn't very furry.

Cult is probably more appropriate.

That's just as non-furry as cabal. We can at least make it a pun.

its no longer a fandom, its a cult

... this is a weird thing to wake up to, especially when this was supposed to be a more notable discussion on a platform...

The burned furs rise again? :P

That's how the fandom works. Some popufur (In this case Froox) puts out the cancel pheromone signal and everybody falls in line. It's standard furry operating procedure and Neos is no different.

why furry in here then should go back to discord

... that's not chemistry works but okay...

Everyone time a good discussion in good faith starts, Its literally firr and ⦺ ⍝'irick'⊣'corwal'⍝ and few other people in here that come in and make disingenuous statements in bad faith. Like between them all they are so condescending and smug, even Ghandi would want to punch them in the nose.

... wrong person...

And you still have not answered my question WHEN DID YOU APPLY FOR YOUR TECH JOB?

yeah.. and bad joke ^^;

disgusting

I've been a furry since alt.fan.furry on usenet in the 1990s and I've seen how the fandom operates from a very inside-out perspective. This situation is incredibly typical and cliché for furry projects and I've seen it happen many times over the years with social groups, cons, software projects, websites, etc.