it wouldn't be 700k after taxes.

How much are homes usd

If price range from 100,000 USD to 700,000 and user to complain he does not have enough

This is what happens when I try and export the hallway. Complete nonsense. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/976901195685826601/unknown.png

Greed and stupidity then

You doesn't require to purchase with all USD too

You need only fraction

the... heck? Why does it have 4 Origional formats

+ A lot of the community was involved in crypto for the first time

Because it's a barely functional mess, like a lot of Neos.

That's not how the exporter works.

User angry at metaverse because greed and stupidity

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

Yes?

if you live in the US, you absolutely need to pay in USD. I could try payingn with my Korean Won, but the most I'll get is a funny look and "Where is that from?"

But yes, this was my complaint. Literally none of my friends play Neos anymore, so the idea was to try and salvage what I've done so far, at least world wise and port it. But it doesn't look like it's going to be possible.

I just explain it

Do I need to download and reupload what I say?

Seems to be how you understand

partly related but... wasn't the Metamovie a HiFi project at one point?

No, that was a previous venture. A bank heist themed one instead.

ah okay... was about to say, could use HiFi's JSON exporter to migrate the data that way. It doesn't do models, but the URLs are preserved and could be WGETed with a reader

and that one exported.... everything... including broken data

or NCR

Yes

700,000 USD for first payment?????

Here's another great example of the exporter working well. https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/958670/156892937-af919a02-b432-4686-9fcc-173c283a6b3f.png

according to the exporter... all of them?

Clearly this is users first crypto and did not take profit ever. He never lose 700,000

People here actually lose money

that's so strange.... I wonder if it's due to how the information is packed into the models, like a static texture component

Since metaverse creator he probably given developer coin

All free money

So please do not say lose 700,000 when you lose nothing

I'm grabbing the top slot of a room and exporting it that way. It's worked successfully for one single room, all the rest either give me insane dialogues like this, or they start to export and fail silently.

Spit on you

Take your moronic, incoherent ramblings elsewhere. Injecting yourself into conversations that you've apparently spent zero time looking into isn't helpful.

Same

Empty top level slots with everything sorted below into whatever it needs to be in.

Quite possibly, if that's enabled by default. I remember someone asking for that to not be a thing and the team's response was "Why not? It's fine being on there..."

And as there's no hierarchy searching or splitting or anything in Neos, it's going to be virtually impossible to find all this :(

Can't search for components. No component interaction.

I've removed that cruft from most things, but some inevitably slip through.

Me: I want to export the entire hallway.
Neos: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/976905998214246400/unknown.png

There's like 15000 slots below this and I don't remember ever bringing in an "eating sound" so this is going to be a nightmare.

Did a wierd rex model or someone with a similar thing borked before saving xD?

Quite possibly, that's another nightmare in Neos, random stuff screwing with your worlds. Pair that with no version control and it's a recipe for disaster.

Hell, the "all permissions wiped" issue still exists too doesn't it?

that one I'm not versed with.

I never had that yet, dont know

This world takes around 20 minutes to save in Neos, it's horrible. There's a ticket open from 2019 to make the JSON/serialiser better to fix it, but you know...

hmm... and during production of the shows, are assets dragged in? I know it sounds silly, but I'm wondering if junk data is making a mess of htings

This is my cinema, not one of the MetaMovie worlds, but I'm sure I'd run into similar issues there.

I would guess if that "eating sound" came from a random user, it should be quite high up in the hierarchy

Users get reparented into a lot of different places here due to culling, so they won't be in the usual location.

I mean, I get the frustratoin: Wunkay was part of the Fumbleland project back on HiFi, hence his large review and how simple issues to normal users are massive in a production situation. I haven't been in that position for years, but I understand how frustrating it is, especially given the situation

That was another thing that wound me up with the Neos community, was how they either pretended issues didn't exist, or downplayed everything. Yeah, you may not have these issues when you're fucking each other in private worlds or building the game's 50th fart gun, but when you start building at scale and doing things seriously, Neos *really* falls apart , both from the bugs, lack of basic building functionality or just general limitations which people kinda pretend don't exist.

Trying to use Neos after using Unity is like Paint to Photoshop. Neos is missing so much absolutely basic functionality that you'd expect to be there from day 1.

I mean... argument withstanding, most anything compared to a major game engine is always going to pale by comparison. Unity is VRChat and Chillouts and... basically the backbone behind many critical projects, and has the budget and development team to boot. Not to mention, it has to compete against Unreal and other engines, and it has a rather helpful community to boot (Seriously, some forum posts really show how good that is).

Uki has managed to get some component interaction in logix, though it's ref hacking. We've used it to modify components across whole scenes, and specifically to strip unnecessary components from imported textures. It may be able to remove those components. I do know that the plugin APi would allow you to do this as well.

I'd very much like to know more about this tool, all I've been familiar with is exporting all the meshes collectively from a world build as a single fbx or dae file.

When I brought up the canny I was basically using it as an example of a better platform to use over a hub for layman users. Canny or something canny like (there are better alternatives) would go miles beyond what the GitHub would provide communication wise for the community at large in the future, while the GitHub can also be used to facilitate communication with more tech savvy users who are capable of providing detailed big reports and are a bit more knowledgeable with how things work under the hood. Both have their advantages and using them to their advantages would ensure a much smoother experience for the community and people dealing with tickets. Also probably beneficial to have staff whose sole priority is dealing with those tickets and providing reports to the devs. Devs shouldn't dealing dealing directly with it

The main issue with Canny was just the price, but after some simple Googling... there are not only free alternatives, but even open source ones that seem to do a decent job

As far as I'm concerned it's he/ said they said / hearsay. Also how do you get locked inside an apartment and not make a stink about it for a long period of time. That makes no sense

So basically Karel gave Froox food and board while they were working on a start up they both had equal equity in, yeah the kidnapping and imprisonment stuff sounds like hogwash

"hey did the locks get changed I have not tried to leave in days because I'm always at the computer I'm going to need a key". If anything this sounds like Karel just had a brain fart on setting and Froox is could have easily remedies it by going yo you forgot to give me a key

Fogbugz?

it's like a hipster version of Azure

You're right, an inhouse caretaker is more accurate

Agreed, I would also like to take this opportunity to formally apologize for some people in of my more heated comments recently. Tensions are high. Anyone feel free to add me in world to discuss things

We'd like component access, definitely. Though it's dependent on logix collections. Which is my current priority issue XD

I on boarded 6 people about a week ago and it was very much a process of me having to tell them to check their email. After that everything was fine

I got one limit for Logix: No native array system.

It is really annoying to have to deal with the lack of common data structures. I've managed to get around it, but it's always inefficient hacks.

I get the work around but... ugh....

No graphs, no arrays, no collections, no lists...

The team shouldn't have input especially if they are going to have employees. They can have opinions and give it when appropriate but it feels like this whole thing is more them wanting to make overreaching decisions.

Lack of graphs is also why Neos' particle system is missing a lot of the basic functionality that the Unity native basic one has.

Why are you so focused on the buybacks exactly, what is your issue with it?

There are a few collection editor plugins, but I haven't messed with them. Gareth made a decent particle editor from what I understand.

it's logix. It is mostly based on electrical engineering but is also pushed as a programming language. Any list based system within it just doesn't work. I just don't refer to them as collections. It's just that simple.

?

As I understood it, he was to edit the trailer and someone else was going to shoot/direct and decide the content of it

yes, as are lists, vectors, and the like... I get that. I just haven't had to deal with more proper terminology in awhile. I'm 90% self taught and got enough done to graduate with my degree

So Nex contacted me and said "I would refrain from spreading rumors about me, I was not fired due to the trailer and did no form of "sabotage" on my own work for a year and a half, that's kinda ridiculous" which is all good and fine. But it doesn't answer one question. Why the fuck has it taken over a year and a half and still have no usable product at the end of it? A year and a half, for a TRAILER.

This is an unhinged rant based solely on personal opinion on my book. It's his money and he can dump if he wants but having money and lots of it doesn't mean he is right

People around this industry are already well aware, and very much in this mindset of not hiring the current devs for social VR projects or VR adjacent stuff.

....isn't there there only the two trailers, now that I think about it? the older one from the belt area and then the recent one for the site only? On the steam page, there's just the older one... after the Twitch livestream one

Imagine chatting in a chat

This is literally almost all you do though. @RealEnverex is using the chat to talk about what's happening right now, much like most of us. What's the point? People want to have conversations about it

This is that gaslighting I keep mentioning

9r you know just let people vent and communicate

Dragon furries are based furrtis

Neither is gold or silver

I'm just shocked it's just one server... like... spinning up servers isn't that complicated...

You know people have opinions off Twitter and discord right? This is very much the reputation it has now

why can't there be relays for major geographical locations? I mean, depending on the vendor, it shouldn't be that complicated.

Dude, that is uncalled for. :<

This is especially problematic when you remember how well Neos handles high latency, or rather, how it doesn't. Which means that anyone too far from the relay (or the combined range of the client and the host from the relay) would result in the session being unusable for that user anyway due to queued packets.

hmm.... yeah, so spinning up additional servers until that is fixed would make things... more complicated

At the moment I think the LNL relay is a bit of a mess. I don't think it's set up to do load blalencing of any sort.

that and the registration service seem to be the most common bottlenecks.

I mean, I already finished up a network monitoring script to keep an eye on my primary servers and APs, so I can't imagine how hard it'd be to just run ping tests for the most effective one... or just ask the user to pick one in settings like a few game titles do

Hotake coming in. Maybe Neos should rely less on peer-to-peer and more on hosted servers. I understand the reasons why it went peer to peer but that just throw a limitations on what the platform can be ultimately used for. Not saying stop peer to peer, but having other options for just visiting already published content would not hurt

That isn't too hard of an ask, honestly. I mean, just have a daily restart at X time every day where for 5 minutes, the relay needs a nap. Maybe an extended down time to run some updates, check some settings.

Finally caught up on all 700 messages 😅

That's why I've always kept a headless server up. I can't host more than 4 people without the session dying as I only have 5Mb upstream. Though my friend has a 100Mb full duplex line and his sessions still die at 6 users so... yeah :(

I havn't done much networking code tbh. state management between multiple endpoints might be difficult for NAT punch-through.

It normally takes them a week to fix it AFTER being notified that it's broken. I'm not sure what excuse could be used here...

it's not that bad. I had to write up one from scratch when I was with HiFi because everything was manually compiled. Biggest annoyance was managing the io of the service, but it was a fun learning experience

i did not ask

It seems like it's the inefficency of the rendering thread. Hopefully more modern versions of mono thread more effectively, i know the headless client is using a slightly more modern version and that apparently makes up a large portion of the difference.

The dying being network dying, not CPU dying. Or rather everyone starts to queue uncontrollably and voice dies.

I do know strict NAT was a rather large issue on the previous platform. Part of it was definately due to the assignment-clients just picking a port at random and punching through without a care as a means of improving user setup... which makes sense on the Windows version, but for the Linux ones... kind of unneeded. Even then, there was nothing allowing more organized handling of the ports on deployment other than a startup script every time. At least the headless-client has forcePort per world config

CPU wise - Headless still shits itself over 20 users (give or take, depending on single thread performance of the server CPU), each time someone joins, the whole server will lock up and then have to play catchup with everyone.

Really? I've never managed to saturate my line. Like, I'll definately start queing, but I just assumed it was the complexity of the networking model.

Yup. ~5 users on my 5Mb line. User cost is exponential though so it wouldn't be 10 users at 10Mb.

I know with the MetaMovie server when I was monitoring, we were hitting 60Mb/s constantly and spiking up to 100Mb occasionally with around 20 users.

I've got gigabit symetrical for the most part. I do start queuing at 12 users on a self-hosted session. No problems on the headless we run up to 25 or so.

....damn. That's... impressive.

Got to pop to host a thingy, but I'll try to pop back later.

Yeah, network wise 30+ users is fine on gig. You'll be hitting single thread limits of how Neos is designed though, but it won't always be immediately apparent. Neos WILL be locking up every time someone joins at that point, at least on the host itself before it catches up.

Have fun.

Huh, that explains why my cinema doesn't seem to really impact from joins anywhere near as badly as normal sessions. Everywhere gets culled for the headless user technically as they aren't present in any zones.

(and users are parented under each zone, so it culls all the users too)

Just inject something with the avatar builder and once it is injected, the user can be culled from headless

Interesting, they *are* culled (at least as far as the headless is concerned) at spawn for my cinema and no-one is getting voided.

they only need to be visible for the avatar builder, after that they can be culled

But yeah, that explains why my cinema always felt like there was a lot less people there than there was. I'd often still be at full FPS with 20 people in other rooms.

For anyone curious, that "eating sound" was an item left over from the MMC celebration items outside of one of the cinema screens for themed events...

Yeah and to your average potential Neos user anyone new to social VR or VR in general Everything you guys are discussing is beyond them. Especially for people that just want to build something for people to use and appreciate. I know several real world DJs who would be interested in throwing events in Neos but would want to be able to host upwards of at least 50 people without issue

Yup, most people don't know their actual usable upstream speed and thus how many people they could host, etc.

Also no Neos world is hosting 50 people unless you want constant lockups and single digit framerates.

VRCs cap is based on users with much lower end hardware though. I've been in 60+ user sessions before in VRC (without any avatars hidden) and I still get 40-60fps.

What they recommend and what can be done are two different things. I attend events in VRC upwards of 100 people with little to no issues

On the regular

The hard cap is supposed to be 80 users, lol.

The current rendering engine doesn't really help either

Yeah but people can still get in a few seconds before the cap starts booting people to a new instance

Ask him why he was fired then. He, as well as any other volunteer refuse to touch the topic.

Sounds like a personal issue. The point is Neos can't handle that kind of event. Stop focusing on what VRC is or isn't capable of.

I'm on a 2080 Ti, upgraded to it when I bought my Index a few years back.

wow 8 hours personal drama yet no word to progress for $NCR just sound loud children all day 700 message no new things very tiresome 🥱

check back next day 👋

If you're waiting for news, you're both in the wrong place and going to remain very disappointed for some time.

works fine, but for the love of god, do not take a group photo with everyone and say "Cheese" all at the same time. The voice system hates it and results in awkward silence until it restarts

See vrchat runs like shit for. Me compared to. Neos

It kinda vars me from playing vrchat anymore

Have to set it to 50% resolution scale for it to run alright in the hub world with just me there

And then it has this stupid bug that's always been a thing with Virtual Desktop on the quest 2 where if you tab to your desktop and then go back to the game, it starts lagging way worse.

Weird thing is months ago, vrchat ran fine

Other than the virtual desktop bug that annoyed the hell out of me but, it ran fine

Neos meanwhile I can run at 150% resolution scale without lagging until i get into bigger worlds/sessions

GTX 1660 Ti though, nothing super good

Also I put $600 into NCR because I believe in neos, I don't even have $600 to my name or a job anymore right now

But Im not angry with the devs or anything for this. I believe things take time. It sucks that I lost what, to me, was alot of money

But
Neos I believe in as a whole

What CPU and GPU? Also make sure under the advanced graphics that AA is set to 2x not 8x.

GTX 1660 Ti, Ryzen 7 2700x, 32gb ram

I'm going to try it out on my laptop soon which is uh
RTX 2060, i7-10750H, 16gb ram

But idk I've been very put off due to performance issues where it like.. Kinda makes me sick to use cuz it's just flipping back and forth between frames

I'd make sure you fix the default AA first as you're likely running out of memory bandwidth, as VRC is more GPU VRAM heavy than Neos due to the additional textures.

Ahh

It also is annoying that vrchat is practically unusable without mods and mods are disallowed

That's something I really like about neos

Modding is allowed

Practically unusable without mods is... just not even remotely true.

What do you need them for?

i guess what i mean is in public

the amount of times i was crashed before i installed mods in public is wild

having to restart the game every two minutes is annoying, i get annoyed whenever neos crashes once in a blue moon

atleast with neos it felt like things were going to be fixed

im on the 90hz setting

with SSW
but it only ever happens with vrchat, not neos, so whatever is going on there is not a VD issue seemingly

I've spent ages in public lately and in the past, no crashing for a long, long time. Though I do still have the particle limiter on.

Attempt 17 at exporting my content... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/976990898527281152/unknown.png

Ahh I've always had issues

What do you mean by VRC thinks your index is a quest?

that's.... very weird, and I say that as someone who owns an Index and a Quest, and has the biggest oppertunity for the system to mess up

Same. Do you have some sort of input emulator installed?

？？？？

The type of hardware is reported to VRC by SteamVR so I have no idea how you've managed to do that.

None

well, try to keep in mind there was no reason you as a holder needed to be thrown under the bus like that. To try to kick Karel out the devs attacked their own token that ppl like us bought, pulling us into the crossfire for no reason. And yeah to some of us $600 is a significant amount, in a time when some can barely make ends meet, it can take months to save up that.

I think though within this community we're surrounded by people in the tech field who are, generally, pretty well off and don't feel or understand the financial mayhem they caused people's lives

$600 is a huge amount for me as well, but crypto isnt really always gonna go up, I put into it because I believed in neos

Yeah there's no guarantees and we both knew that. I'm sorry you got burned.

I bought in too because I genuinely liked the game. When I complained about the way things were attacked, I was treated and accused of just caring about profit or something, which was puzzling

Who knows what will happen to NCR. I certainly haven't a clue.

sorry for derailing discussion, just your post stuck out to me and I felt bad reading it

Yeah.. It does suck that I lost the money but at the same time, I do really still wanna see neos succeed
I'm more saddened by the development halt for now since neos is a platform I like investing time in, and creating stuff for.

Interesting stuff. Geenz very much still the voice of finality and division as usual

Nothing we didn't know though.

They want all the benefits of the the company and control over it, but none of the responsibilities that go along with that, which just boggles my mind.

When I point that out, I just get vague arguments about their workplace environment and how they should have complete control of it, but none of that excuses their wreckless behavior or their stated goal to screw over their holders and see them as a burden

I have no idea what that is

I dont know, looks like the typical get-in-get-out shitcoin gamble

no.. he looks like a boiled potato

can't stand the charmless fuck

ok

at least neos gives you possibility to build a castle in your world.

I hate how stupid the char just gets as soon as I say something

good luck

Either certain people try to derail me to defend the situation or we get stuff like this

Geenz: "crypto brought the wrong kind of people to the platform"

Also:"anyone supporting Karel just wants to protect their investment"

pretty obvious the line of thinking the team has, which is to get everyone on board with feeling okay to screw over those involved with the mint.

building a divisive narrarive, as usual

I m not . I dont play neos, I m just investor but if you ask me Do you want money anyway from ncr I definitely say No because I want to see neos success and earn money. I dont want money like from Terra like gamble.

Of course there will be people like btc king

who write yesterday like Max

my opinion we should eliminate that kind of people

Well NCR is a gamble, just as much as Luna. NCR can easily go to zero.

eliminate?

there are also a lot of stupid chats going here, why nobady react them

because of the print.

I'll come back another time

like if you want a better crypto trade, look elsewhere.

Like if all you cared about was returns, NCR was always a bad play when the metaverse hype died out. If you were holding past that that you either gave a damn about the game or you were just a bad trader.

That is right, but people who like me just wait for good news for reconciliation they shows their support that is what we do.

The investment is why neos and his job exist. f**king asshole.

he doesn't see it that was, and in this case Geenz has been doing it for free

and others. Afaik. But there's this attitude that the company and product should belong to them with no obligation to those who put their money where their mouth is and backed Neos

in Geenz's words... "crypto attracted the wrong kinds of people"... since when? did it attract them 4 years ago?

His statements show no deeper thought about the unfair circumstances he wrought onto everyone, just divisive langauge to serve one purpose: to make the community feel it is morally good to scam the NCR holders.

They already have their community onboard with that. It's an environment where everyone wants to see the holders have harm done to them.

He also says those who dont agree with him solely want to protect their investment, further labeling all of us here as just either greedy or fearful, ignoring that many of us actually believed in the game. A large number of us.

And his words about metaverse being more than ape jpegs is just trying to sweep away opinions that for a metaverse to really be free, it can't be a corporate fiefdom where one entity controlls all the commerce ala SecondLife. And should be ablw to flow freely between games and across boarders... something that the current token can succeed at.

All language is to justify abuse and reckless behavior.

If you don't want to take care of the holders, whom the company has been selling to for over 4 years.... then leave the company.

How can you argue that you should have both? Complete control of the company and also none of the pledges?

At this time, the CEO is busy pressing "like" on Tesla Twitter. what the fu…😂

Digitally certifying in-world asset ownership is actually a stronger use case of NFTs - not to mention aligns with the long-term decentralized ethos that the whitepaper originally envisioned for Neos. Pushing back against NCR was always a power play against Karel and they leveraged the negative sentiment against crypto in the furry community as a catalyst to expedite that. A lot of the volunteers were heavily invested, profited from NCR, and likely contributed to the sudden price drop in December as a coordinated selloff. This was never about crypto. This is the end result of a long-term plan to remove Karel and take control of the platform.

We wouldn't even be in this deadlock situation at the moment if the developers didn't get the smooth brain idea to go on strike and demonize Karel. We'd have almost 7 months of updates and forward momentum, and would be half way through the 2022 roadmap.

I know for a fact that the team members were selling off their holdings in December and also telling their friends to follow suit - some of who were heavily invested whales.

Which caused a cascading failure of the price.

Ah, those pesky devs and their insistence to be treated with human decency :< putting us behind schedule with their refusal to continue to work for free for a for profit entity.

Playing the poor perpetual victim is eye-rollingly cliché standard furry operating procedure. You have a boss, you take orders from your boss - and sometimes the things he orders aren't always going to align with what you want to do. This is how the real world works. This all comes down to the devs not wanting to take orders from Karel because he chose somebody else to design the website and Froox got butthurt over it. I was at the board of directors meeting watching the entire scenario play out in real time.

The meetings regarding the website were happening months before the rollout.

"I instigated an organized furry coup and all I got was this 30$ crypto website" :P

1. They were apprehensive about Andrea joining as COO and saw her involvement as Karel's way of keeping them accountable for their work.
2. They were upset about the website developer being a 3rd party that wasn't in their furry clique.
3. They were upset that Karel presented a roadmap of long-term 2022 goals. I clearly remember one of the team members at the board meeting saying they were "scared" about Karel's goals and then tried to shape this "Karel is a bad" person narrative to the public - because instead of being reasonable and working with him, they defaulted to canceling him in true furry twitter fashion.

And that's when all of the insane claims like "Karel locked Froox in the house and forced him to code" tabloid level character assassination trash pieces started rolling out.

When almost every single person aboard the anti-Karel hate train has a cartoon animal avatar it's hard to argue that it's not a furry problem. I've been very involved in the fandom for years and know how these things work. I guarantee you we would not be in this situation if Karel was a furry and involved in the BLFC ERP circle.

Karel isn't the one refusing to work. This is 100% the result of a coordinated walk-off because "Karel bad Froox good."

This is the part where you type out some human rights violation narrative.

1. Existing proprietary codebase is forked and Karel forms a new team using the existing IP and remaining ICO funds.
2. Both sides agree to open source the existing codebase and develop parallel open projects with Karel's continuing to support NCR.
3. One side buys out the other side.

Assuming Froox and Prime aren't actively sabotaging commits from team Karel.

The furries are literally the ones who made this into an us vs them scenario.

You really don't get it. This situation is beyond repair and nothing will likely be done on the other end until Karel is out - which isn't happening.

Oh that ship has already sailed. It's very much us vs them at this point as evidenced by the fact that the furries drove everybody out of Discord and we literally had to create a new chat server.

To claim otherwise would be disingenuous.

To be fair, her narrative is more 'furries are a leftist social justice clique who are woke mobbing Karel'.

They've certainly done no favors to the image of the Neos project. Even if Frooxius wins, the optics of Neos is irreparably damaged in the social VR spheres to the point where it will likely never gain traction outside of a very small niche - likely the existing userbase.

And this is exactly the crux of the matter. It's a conflict of motivations. Solirax is a profit-driven business and Neos is the product. A lot of the existing users and developers that I talk with see Neos as this small sandbox tinkering platform without a business model - because capitalism bad. For a business to grow, the product needs to scale to the point of profitability and that's going to inevitably incite an in-world cultural shift that the early homesteaders don't want to see.

I fail to see a single thing wrong with neos promoting grass roots efforts within its player base to take care of its direction and development. I find it absurd that a genuine commitment to community inclusion within the organization is being bandied about as a criticism.

VRChat has 50,000+ concurrent users and they are still relying on series D venture capital to survive as a company - even with their VRC+ business model.

NCR was going to be that investment vehicle. Neos will never be able to scale on Patreon alone.

Right, they actually function as a business.

They also have no clear path to sustainability. But hey, that's apparently beside the point :P

this picture is utter bullshit and you're full of it for sharing it. To attribute the March 4 drop to Karel has long been disproven. Stop peddling utter lies. They may fly over on your discord but not here.

I'm sick of the scummy lies and bending of facts to push false narratives.

To say VRC has different goals from Neos is, in my opinion, a cope. It is to say that the failure to compete or grow is a choice when really its not.

And I'm not as concerned about short term numbers as I am about being forwaed thinking, but I'd argue Neos is neither right now

Pushing back against growth is a big reason why Neos has such a low user retention rate. I hear it constantly from users in-world that they don't want "normies" on the platform and the current userbase very much reflects that.

I'm sick of the word "normie" at this point, especially when I feel like its the most normie of people out there using the word.

I personally enjoy talking to and working with anyone on the platform who's passionate about creation, that's why I use Neos

It's been a creator positive experience for me

I feel your honest by that, but I've observed that there's a degree of snobbishness about what types are "real" creators. And I likw creators flourishing, but non creators being alot of value. And I don't think large numbers of creators without enough peoole to enjoy those things is somehow magically valuable, you know?

Same I meet all kinds of people and my experience has mostly been one of positive creation

I understand but there's a passion and love just in the act of creation and having a place to talk to people who feel the same way is a rare thing I've cherished having

I get that, but it seems some of the immediate decisions contradict that future vision. And yes, I mean namely the standing against decentralization and wanting to go down a central secondlife path.

I'm not very good at most of what you do in Neos but Ive been improving a lot with the help of so many people

Regardless of what happens from here, I'll still cherish all the positivity I've experienced on my end thusfar

I see, but I feel there's this slight unspoken vibe that that feeling needs to come at the exclusion of certain things (like non-creators of socialites) when I don't think that's the case

And I wisb I could say my experience in the community has been as positive.

I'm very sorry it has not been

They roll out the red carpet for new users who are furries. Human avatar new users typically get ignored by the usual suspects staring at 15 Logix and inspector windows. 😂

I can't speak for everyone but in my circles we have both

I just.. don't understand this sentiment. It seems more about control than providing creators the tools to define their own spaces.

I can honestly see how there is not a lot for non-creators on the platform at the moment

Even the idea that new users should be greeted by the longtime natives as a part of the games design feels, imo, abit about control and ego that freedom. Just my thoughts currently.

But also I haven't been seeking anything outside of creator spaces so I can't speak on that end fully

so why is a closed clique community a part of the equasion for that?

yeah I'm fine with that. I'm just wanting us to question if why we're pushing back against growth is for reasons other than to be knee jerk against those who are calling for it?

I have no problem with growth, my friends I've made and can work with will still be there

Because it feels like the idea that Neos should be small and unprofitable is either a cope, or its a counter sentiment to all of the voices here saying we need to grow or have a better experience.

I like growth, but not as an excuse for pathing over Neos' existing grass roots organization ethos.

I am concerned about certain groups, constant harassment got me out of Public worlda on VRC, but we have our spaces in Neos so that's not really a problem

What is that? Like, is it something we're pulling out of our rears? And reading Geenz can someone tell me plainly what is the "vision" that Karel had that runs counter to this ethos?

In an ideal world I would love more people to talk to, I adore speaking to people and hearing about what people are passionate about.

Because people tell me that Karel had a cpnflicting vision for Neos and I'm supposed to just fill in the blanks with capitalism and crypto bad or whatever.

We’re kinda in a limbo state right now. Will be good to get clarity after the legal stuff is sorted. The reality for Froox&team will kick in once that happens and they’ll have to decide if they want to continue working on Neos or leave. There are plenty of exceptional devs out there who would love to work on such a cool project that is well funded. Would be a shame to see Froox go but Neos can still thrive without him and his friends.

I want Froox involved. I even want Geenz involved. But for some non-reasons that has to come at a great sacrifice of NCR holders (and spoiler, it doesn't actually, just the devs are too lazy to hire a crypto native or are too bitter to) and also at the expense of a long and ugly chsracter assassination campaign.

So when it comes to that, Id rather he just walk away and be hurt himself then for him to benefit greatly on the sacrifice of so many other's wellbeing.

Obviously it would be great to have Froox involved. All I’m saying is that it’s out of our control and even if Froox leaves, Neos is in a great position and will be able to hire many other great devs. It may actually be a better direction overall as development will get more streamlined

Actually until there’s legal clarity it is probably off the table. So will have to wait some months before that happens

yeah I mean, the moment he hired Andrea is kind of the same time all this stuff happened.

Andrea's hiring is largely unrelated i imagine but I bet it was a slight factor (the hiring of someone new without their approval and before some of them got hired)

just seems like a rushed decision. I think Karel genuinely wants everyone to get back together and set their differences aside

but they daily make it clear they don't care

Like I said Neos is in a limbo state right now. Once there’s legal clarity, you can almost certainly expect devs to be hired and onboarded. Whether that happens with or without Froox is another question, but I don’t think it matters either way.

Guess youre right. At a point you have to give up on hope for that.

Neos has at least $4M in reserves which is a lot for a startup. They probably have at least $2M in fiat too that we can’t see (based on historic withdrawals from the mint address). Thats at least $6M in total, which could pay for a top tier dev + marketing team for several years

I can't comment on Karel's vision outside my own assumptions. He never really did any Q&A over it. But I have never really felt that he made the commitment to having Neos be a truly first-class space when it came to the stated whitepaper ambitions as a place to work in. He definitely wasn't eating his own dogfood.

Well you don't seem to know his vision, but Geenz and others comment on it with a lot of certainty.

There's also the opportunity cost of losing 7 months of development when the rest of the industry is moving forward with building social VR.

So they just say "his vision doesnt align with ours" and rely on their community to imply whatever thr fuck they want about it. But never EVER anything concrete.

Bring in the CEO. Doesn't he communicate with investors? Stop clicking "like" on Tesla Twitter and communicate with investors

Reality will kick in when there’s legal clarity. Then they have to decide if they want to stick around or leave

I can barely stay awake haha, but I just want to say I hope everything ends up okay, I've loved Neos so far and everyone I've met in it

Don’t expect this to happen until there is legal clarity

and we pretend we want a better metaverse, but we just let peers like Horizon grow. I think there's a failure there, even a moral one

I know what they published in the whitepaper and I know their public statements, but that hardly is the same as how I know the rest of the team's vision. There is a qualifiable difference between hearing someone argue their perspective in a dialog and reading essentially marketing copy.

So basically... your own biases.

I guess you heard the guy talk and youre a good judge of character. So you must know bad apples and can see throigh the BS. Sure.

Lack of information. I have to fill in the missing pieces. That is a kind of bias.

Thats about the best of an explanation I could expect, really... People's personal sentiment

Luckily you have a character assassination campaign to fill in the blanks for you

Orc, when in our engagement have I struck you as someone who does not make a genuine effort at due diligence before drawing a conclusion? I am slightly upset at this dig.

If not you, then what about like... everyone else?

If you're reasonable, then atleast see the situation for what it is: a character smear campaign where everyone else has incomplete knowledge and are being told what to think

Just read @tizzers messages. Explains well what happened and the psychology. Unfortunately the ones attacking Karel are not self aware enough to see it for what it is and have deluded themselves into believing Karel (the co-founder of Neos btw) is evil

You can filter messages by person in this chat

The mentors are a clique in themselves and something of a meme outside of Neos staff, moderators and other mentors (hell, including some mentors). It's a group of people who spend a laughably tiny amount of time helping new users but want that badge of "I'm special" compared to non-mentors. Watching calls for mentors go continually unanswered all the time while they spent all their time in private worlds was laughable. Not to mention being who were outright malicious as far as user experience goes (e.g. JoshFluffy) being brought on as mentors without even going through normal channels.

Not my personal opinion, I've had the same thing echo'd by a LOT of long standing Neos members.

What a way to frame it, hahaha.

Rhetoric sways doxa, it's the sea we exist in. Navigating hyperbole, and people taking that hyperbole at face value. I don't contribute malice, which I feel is implied by 'smear campaign', to anyone. It's a messy situation, and I dislike that it's become a bunch of personal attacks.

I likewise dislike that i have to wade in a sea of disinformation and serious accusations. How the heck am I supposed to take claims of worker abuse by a CEO? There is a unanimous strike. I don't have the information required to verify the veracity of the claim, but it doesn't make sense to sweep that under the rug given the power relation.

Yeah, people are jumping on band wagons for the wrong reasons. Yes, people are hyperbolically exaggerating events. This is political in the pure and simple, and I am not saying that as an attempt to belittle or distance myself from it. The ends here are about power, who has that power, how that power is used, structured and if it is being abused.

In the end, I have major issues with how Neos was structured, not the least being the blatantly illegal and IMO immoral arrangement of a for profit company using volunteer labor for its core services. The landscape my specific position exists in is real, and I do think that people could show more caution in what they say. But what of it? What substantive objection does it raise to the criticism?

I will join you in mourning the loss of civility in discourse, but I will not see that being used as a tactic to undermine one position or the other. The merits of a position are argued on their own. They may be complex, they may even intersect with decorum and civility. But it is useless and tiring to trudge out 'well, that side has a bunch of reactive elements'. Such is the state of the modern web. Everyone has hyper-reactive elements. It was like this five years ago when Angela Nagle wrote Kill all Normies and the dynamics still echo today.

Its not so much that these things happen or the discourse is just utter garbage, but I'm questioning where we're going from here. And I don't neccessarily believe all this means there wasn't a responsibility or failure to rain in the discourse and make it more toxic from those who are holding all the chips.

It's also not about one person, the CEO, but it's worse than that. its extended to people within the community (such as everyone here who has their convos openly recorded in hopes it can be used against them). And it's used to label some groups as morally OK to fuck over when they inevitably seek to wash their hands of us. Or to rail people into thinking that when all of these users get discarded that it's OK because they supported the bad guy.

The sentiment that the helpers and moderators are an exclusive club of friends is more widespread then you think. I know quite a few people who feel that way.

The fact they don't really interact and are mostly in private is kinda one of the main issues.

You act like I don't keep an eye on who is where. I don't *personally* need to talk to them or interact with them at all.

I have eyes.

Not to mention I'm also talking historically.

I am personally interested in any strategies you would offer to combat that perception.

I typically consider your judgement above others, but I don't see how it can be just accepted when it didn't have to be this bad, and I don't see why the crypto holders needed to be pitted against those agaonst it, or other disingenuous statements that are usually false or misleading, right from the devs.

And if they can behave that way and pit the community against each other in such a way, and in such short order build up an character smear campaign, why should I believe all the vague accusations of abuse when they are a part of that very campaign?

Just because its unanimous really just tells me what we already know, that theyre Froox's friends and they'll stand by him. I've already had one dev tell me they have no problems with Karel, that the problem is with others... but they signed the statement all the same

I don't want to be in the position of arguing against the accusations, but if it needs to boil down to that justifying all pf this, then they have to be questioned hard.

I'd suggest suspending judgment on those points if the specific power arrangement doesn't concern you.

I am specifically concerned about how Karel has acted in his role as CEO, including his public statements that will affect the hireability of employees he fired (a really blaringly obvious sign of a hostile work environment if not legally actionable in its own right). I will readily acknowledge that I am holding the corporate officers of the company to a higher standard. I am not thrilled with Froox either, I understand why he ended up breaking silence to give context for events leading up to the situation, but it has resulted in no small amount of existential anxiety on my part and the inevitable game of telephone.

The situation was handled poorly as a mater of corporate governance, and it was caused by a failure of corporate governance to adequately establish bylaws to cover the internal conflict in direction and stakeholder representation.

My concerns have mostly been focused on the fate of the holders really (or as Geenz would put it, just being "concerned with my investment") because they're being needlessly thrown into the mix and I still can't discern why. And its decisions like that that show to me some underdeveloped ability to care for those outside your circle. And if I'm to make an assumption, it'd be that that was involved in this ugly split.

And then their specifics always change when needed, from Its not about money, but then again it is about pay. And it's about Karel's vision being the wrong one, but who knows what that means. Apparently its in the whitepaper. Or its about bad business decisions? but also ignoring that he raised a large amount of capital or in Froox's own words, NCR saved Neos years ago. And now its about things thst happened -after- the split, or so it seems.

and concerning future hirability, I question if Karel's said anything as bad as whats been leveraged against him nonstop by his former colleagues and community

In an unfair situation your concern seems to be the worker's rights and mine seems to be with the holders being treated fairly, which I dunnonif that says something about our background perspectives or not

My honest opinion is that they never should have done an ICO. I used to think it was at least an innovative way to avoid VC influence, but it really didn't. It just ended up providing an underregulated venue to extract value out of people who felt like they were contributing to the future of the project. I don't fundamentally disagree with the perspective that current NCR holders got played, but I don't put that at Karel or the Team's feet other than the fact that I think NCR as the small capitalization deflationary currency that was also for some reason an investment in the future of the platform was doomed from conception.

I do think they owe something to those who are left holding the bag. I just honestly don't know what form that obligation should or can take.

Fine but why? Why do you think that, over just accepting that the implimentation would suffer in the event of both a cofounder splitup and also a big political anti-crypto wave?

Its really easy and often done to just say things like doomed from conception when there's actual reasons. And usually within the community that's said to imply that to fix the problem is hopeless.

Not sure what he means by that.

Geenz's statements really

Deflationary currency on it's own doesn't make much sense to me in a modern context. Even when I was looking at NCR strictly as the utility tken it seems to have been originally intended I figured it would eventually get replaced for the day to day transactions between players. I figured it would be a slow process though, and honestly if it wasn't deflationary I would have probably been very enthusiastically on board. I am a sucker for the idea of setting up "fuck you <The Man>, it stays up' distributed systems.

But then it got muddled up in the idea of it being a speculative investment (probably because of the lack of immediate utility) and once that happened I didn't have much faith in it going anywhere i really wanted to be. But damn was that headrush disorienting on the way up.

They could start by accepting it as a responsibility and not just default to pointing a finger at Karel. Like, if NCR was sold for years by thr company, they should honor ans build with it. If they don't want that responsibility, then why should they get the company and product?

I mean I just see it as what it is. Its a utility token, and all the other stuff you and I project on it is not really what it is. If being deflationary or rather having a limited supply just really, as I see it, lets ot exist alongside real world currencies in a trusted way.

And since its not tied to anything, it was always going to be speculated on, and speculation is not bad. Like I ca. specilate on any currency.. and those who speculated on Neos early should be rewarded, like why not? The issue seems to be people's emotions. related to the big price swings

I don't think the remuneration makes sense as a structural element of their strategy going forward, personally. If they determine it failed as a strategy then they should be able to pursue other strategies to find one that works,. A long term settlement or a buy back makes sense. Specific damages that were caused need to be addressed and the parties so damaged made whole. If this does not happen voluntarily, I will personally join a class to seek justice.

Max is one of them pump chasers

you could have done it on Luna even, if you caught the right knife

That has absolutely nothing to do with Neos and isn't relevant to this chat.

I like doge. Unironically, dogecoin even with its unsophisticated fixed yearly supply allotment is funny and neat and subversive. I am still on the fence about pow, but I remember its context, and as a structural criticism of bitcoin it more than proved its point.

The gold standard is a really bad basis for a currency for pretty much anyone who isn't a bank, and it exacerbates wealth stratification. I will never understand why people keep trying to recreate those dynamics now that we live in a world that is moving closer and closer to the automation of labor. Digital money is a real innovation, trustless networks are a real innovation, the gold standard is sliding backwards to the days of robber barons.

What wasted potential :<

In a weird way, I do miss the older doge. Back then, it was less about the coin itself and more about almost creating a universal tipping service. It was never about profits and some interesting projects came from it, all of which also helped make learning about cryptocurrencies easier. Heck, it got me into Linux coding at the time when I recompiled cgminer to use the Raspberry Pi's GPU. It was funny, stupid, but also educational. I was tipped 500 DOGE when I got it working, and I tipped that back to someone else for a funny video.

Sure, it was nice that the value skyrocketed, and in some sense, the generosity of the community was almost rewarded in a sense. It was a different time, perhaps even a better one.

and there in lies one of the many concerns people had when the surge of crypto people came in: what was once just a "It's there, but it's a byproduct of an older time" became a "Oh, so now everything we do just has a price tag." Coupled with the public perception, it brought much concern.

what are you talking about

Previously, NCR had no actual function. So much so, there are no API calls for it for security reasons. It was just there back when many projects were throwing in some type of crypto relation like it was a game of buzzword adlib. It was intended to have purpose eventually, but when the systems were in place to make it useful, such as commerce functions.

in a sense, NCR was a bit like Doge: it was there, may eventually have value, but overall it was just funny money. I still remember when people would just exchange it with each other freely along with the testing currency, KFC.

Instead, your attitude is what has some concerned: pure profitability of a platform rather than longevity and functional form. It's easy to just make profits off of something, but harder to make it successful. I technically profited off of the failure of a previous crypto platform, both with employment benefits and left over coins. However, the platform, needless to say, was a failure, and I lost whatever time I invested in it as a result.

...that being said, despite the negative perception of the systems itself, I am looking forward to BTC Pizza Day. I already sold my BTC and I have no interest in the recovery process for what is held with the Mt Gox claim, but I still feel the spirit will work if I swap it for some spare Doge I still have.

unfounded? While some parts are exagerated, the public perception outside of Neos itself requires not much to find out about. The constant waves from the 'competitor's userbase' constant protest because of its inclusions isn't unfounded.

and I never intended to make profits with doge. It happened, yeah, but it was never my end goal.

and I can't say the same with the other crypto system because it was a stablecoin based off of principles from LindeX. As for its proof of providence system... I would say it was an early NFT system, but it never got to the phase where you could transfer them from user to user in any form.

I never did strip it of context. I'm looking at it in face value. If you are an investor, then viewing how the platform will perform will be a major factor. In this case, it isn't just the fact other platforms have denounced crypto involvement, but that the successful ones also have a user base who equally agree with those sentiments.

Systems that then added services were then met with heavy backlash, and Neos was no exception when a "major competitor" made their claim against it (who, last I checked, wasn't a competitor, but whatever this group wants to say seems to go). Their userbase made their voices known, and people outside their userbase also agreed.

In short, the very thing being invested into limits the scope of users the platform will draw, and a good majority of those users are also the creators. Without them, you have no market. Without that, you have a terrible product in which was invested into.

I've already been burned by that once with the thousands of hours I paid into another platform, and it didn't have the burden of the current negative crypto viewpoints at play. It didn't attract creators of any kind, despite heavy money drops from larger investors, and the system came crashing down, with even the open source project's code repo being pulled.

That only really works when people know how any of it works. For a very long time, there was no documentation and no-one knew how a lot of stuff worked. It was... difficult.

Even now a lot of it is "no-one knows how this works except for Froox"

My understanding is that Geenz and Prime believe they could continue the project at this point. However, it would be a major setback.

https://twitter.com/WolfBlaire

prank. It's so scrary

@tizzers who is the hypocrite?

None

None

I've mentioned being in the furry fandom multiple times over in here before, which gives me a lot of insight as to how the groupthink in that culture works. At the end of the day I'm an investor and professional before I'm a furry and my opinions will continue to reflect that.

I've seen how quickly furries will turn on their own when people step out of line of the narrative dictated by the oppressed popufur of the week.

In this case, Frooxius being that person.

The furry fandom also has a long history of fabricating lies about people who they don't like and they are now doing that to Karel.

Who can contact Karel? No staff?

None

I feel you, guess I'm willing to see where ot goes. I also like pow for its fairness, really sad that it has the flaw of scaling up way too fast

tbh I don't really even think any currency should last forever, they imo serve transient purposes and this is a chance to see them evolve or new ones come according to whatever people are valuing at the time (seems thats fixed supply currently). IMO its cool where we all get to choose several of the internet's native currencies and if one is disfunctional I could see it being rotated out of. I'm not an economy nut though and don't know of examples to point to where a fixed money supply made commerce skewed. I'm sure there's some example out there. But I don't know if they really even apply to what we have now

My mentor experience was really bad

he kept trying to flirt with me while I was setting up my avatar for the first time

and when I got it set up, which was this monster thing I made, his comment was "mm yeah id let that fuck me"

I was like "...what"

I wrote down their name to report them but never bothered to file the report

I made it up, just messing with everyone

my real mentor experience was like, just wanting to get away to figure things out on my own, just felt like I was wasting someone's time

None

None

None

None

thats a hoot coming from someone in a discord whered youd be falling all over each other to believe anything that supports your destructive rumor mill.

I could make up any equally dumb rumor about karel and you'd all be pushing it for months

This official Neos VR Telegram channel is pretty sad.

None

Kind of funny that the buyback is only available to people with crypto wallets and not the people who actually use NEOS, who have their balances on their accounts.

I get it's a technical limit, but it is fairly ironic

A wallet is free and open to all

Maybe whats unfortunate is there isn't an automates way to withdraw from ingame, but that would require the devs actually caring about the token enough to impliment something like that

but by their own words they don't care about it and just want the holders to fuck off in a ditch somewhere

well I added that little bit at the end but you get the picture

It's Karel's responsibility to code an automated way for NCR to be handled in Neos?

I've heard he does them by hand. All of them

I wonder what you think everyone's reaction would be if Karel hired someone with crypto experiwnce to code something like that into Neos. I wonder what you think the community's reaction would be.

AFAIK Geenz was programming something for it but it kept going wrong so he fell back to doing it manually.

Ow, I eyerolled so hard it hurt :<

I mean, most projects still in development with financial support usually don't automate it due to vulnerability concerns as things develop further.

None

I don't know if its a passiveaggressive response or trying to make a statement but I feel the opinion that Karel should've just done it because "its his baby" or like why couldn't someone easily learn to code to do it are just bunk

Don't you see that being a potential security nightmare? I said maybe he should have hired a crypto native to do it

And I don't think he ever got the chance to, because as soon as he talked about hires things started ripping themselves apart.

and why even automate it except for that people seem to be complaining that Karel had to do and check them by hand.

and that became a stressing point because as far back as December there was concern of a coordinated sell off, and even back then there were complaints that it wasn't automated.

How about doing rather a semi-automation, where transactions are analysed and if they are proper, presented for manual authorization

However the issue would be to have a proper history of past transactions (which is possible) and have them properly linked together (which is a tedious manual task, that makes it difficult to add automation at this time) so the program knows which transactions need processing

I guess thats fine, but I don't know if they don't already have something like that, and if NCR was ever to scale then it'd need to be addressed eventually

Ohh it does? I thought it was a completely manual task of checking something like etherscan and work with an excel sheet

I think semi-manual is fine for now but it's alot of work, and around the NCR craze I hear it backed the system up to requiring weeks of work or something.

it did become an issue though, back in December, concerning disagreements and perceived threats of a selloff

I also resent the revision of history with the whole "its 100% Karel's thing" as if thats how this shit works or as of others weren't on board with it earlier.

I understand that's the narrative you NEED to push, because it is neccessary when you want to purport that abandoning the holders is a reasonable thing to do, but it doesn't really add up

None

None

None

None

None

Robot

None

None

Some constructive thoughts now that things have cooled down after a lot of drama:

- During the FUD / furry attack, smart money has been accumulating NCR at these super low prices
- 10's of millions of NCR has been taken out of circulation from buybacks, resulting in a very scarce supply of NCR
- Although the ETAs have been optimistic, Karel has followed through on his promises (continuing buybacks, new website, updated whitepaper) so it's clear the commitment to making NCR work is there
- Staking is on the roadmap and will arrive soon

IMO (not financial advice) NCR looks great right now. We could see a move up to $2 like we saw on the last bullrun. Will likely happen when there is legal clarity around the IP situation.

Anything constructive to add?

I haven't seen this talked about

The focus has been on drama, but now that things have cooled down we can look at things objectively

It's somewhat dependent on the IP situation, however taking into account all the factors I mentioned NCR looks pretty good here

https://i.imgur.com/Ybd3bxR.jpg

They've made this into an us vs them situation and I don't really see any realistic possibility of an amiable resolution at this point. I still believe Karel will need to take exclusive control of the company and the platform if we are to see forward momentum for NCR. The above screenshot is the mentality that we are dealing with from the other side, and they will stop at nothing to rid Neos of Karel and NCR.

Hmm yeah, I think they are overly pessimistic about NCR. The buybacks would've worked quite well but the timing was terrible - the team turned against NCR and sold off a lot a lot. That, combined with the end of a bull run and a general market downturn made the buybacks ineffective.

I estimate the "effective circulating supply" of NCR to be ~10M now after all the buybacks, meaning at current prices the MC is ~$3M which is tiny. I suspect buybacks will become much more effective.

I think both sides are guilty of the side game. >.>

I also don't feel its fair that you generalize the community as usual Tizzy. Are their individuals looking to see NCR fall? Yes. Is that the mentality of the community overall? Personally I don't think so, as many people have issue with Karel's handling of the platform rather than NCR itself.

At this point I have to agree. If Karel does this, there may be an initial exodus of furries from the platform, but it may well be what's needed for Neos (and NCR) to move forward

You can try and mental gymnastics your way around it all you want. At the end of the day Karel represents NCR and a lot of us bought in as an investment in Karel himself. You can't have one without the other, and by removing Karel you remove the credibility of NCR. The furries know this and they are sinking the value of the token with "I'm so oppressed" sob stories in the official announcements channel in an attempt to remove the CEO because "Karel bad."

How do you know they are accumulating NCR?

Not really mental gymnastics as much as it is an opinion/perspective. No one denies that Karel represents NCR, and I wish that this had not been the case. I would have much preferred more decentralized control of the currency and I think my own investments would have been better off that way. But what you say about the announcements channel is wrong, no one made a sob story, and no one said Karel was bad. It was just disagreement.

Karel is associated with NCR because Karel controls NCR

From what I understand most of the assets are now owned by Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. and not the UK-based LTD that Frooxius owns 42.5% of. It looks like Froox doesn't even hold a stake in the CZ entity, meaning that Karel could have the final say in all of this.

https://rejstrik-firem.kurzy.cz/28149688/solirax-coredev-sro/

We'll see. Im sleeping on the waiting train

Frooxius himself has stated that he does not own any part of CoreDev and that he had only invoiced it on 4 occasions.

– Solirax LTD is inactive, majority of the VC funds were moved to Solirax CoreDev s.r.o.
– I am not employed by Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. (and I do not own this company), but I did send total of 4 invoices in the past, each for 1848 USD and 80 hours of work, for development of small standalone demos for events

what I'm worried about is that I don't see any indication that that isn't the sentiment of the current developers either. It has been like this since way back in November iirc.

The implication is supposed to be "oh those are just the anti-crypto people. They don't reflect our opinions, we are neutral" but in reality it's the cohorts that seem to be voicing their opinions in lieu of them, and when arguments heat up the goldnames step in and defend them.

With methods like these NCR has been being attacked as far back as December or earlier by the people it is supposed to be helping, which made it impossible to actually use it to help them

This is a short term problem. Karel has plans to develop the market place and make Neos more decentralised

These things are on hold while the dev team are striking

These things happened before the strike and led to the strike. That was kind of the issue, everyone is on board with a marketplace, but Karel didnt seem to be making moves to push decentralization

A lot of the developers were actually pro-NCR up until the Karel Bad signal was given in early December, which is why I continue to believe they aren't anti-NCR so much as using NCR as a way to minimize Karel's involvement. A lot of furries are anti-crypto from an ideological standpoint and I think the developers were leveraging this for their own takeover agenda.

"Neos Decentralized" is a whole section of the whitepaper. Quite sure Karel wants to move Neos in this direction. Quite hard to do when the dev team are on strike

exactly. The most simple of narratives for the mouth frothers

I understand this, but this situation started occuring when Karel made decisions with little consultation of team members, more specifically Froox. This puts more power over NCR in Karel's hands

Why shouldn't people be allowed to speculate on it? What you really mean is that "outsiders" started to buy it. People have been speculating on it for 4 years and only now its a problem. But what I really think is that you don't really know what speculation means and have bunk ideas about value and markets.

Again this is propaganda spread by the anti-Karel crew. Froox insisted on focusing only on development of Neos itself and letting Karel handle the business decisions. In his own words: https://ryanschultz.com/2022/03/17/the-neosvr-investigation-part-1-when-karel-hulec-met-tomas-mariancik-the-early-days-of-neos/

its because thats the face of the group that is treating then u fairly. You guys could be anything and they'd come to conclusions, unfair or not, about you based on that.

you can speculate on a "utility" coin there is no actual difference.

And NCR even now has utility pre-marletplace. You can give it ingame to people as tips.

It can lose its value even if it has a utility? you dont know what youre talking about

Not propaganda and Im part of no crew. I know Karel was to handle business decision, but obviously this changed and they started conflicting. Business side only means so much until project goals start changing

I was there during the hype. It was like 3 furries to wach cryptobro while furries were shouting them down in a slow chat

No that just means its generally illiquid. As in its traded on uniswap and not other exchanges.

Like wtf do you want? Got a couple dozen millions so you can tie NCR to a dollar?

Gpvernment fiat currencies flucuate too

There is a dizzying amount of intellectually bunk ideas about how markets determine value in this chat

yeah and you ultimately failed spectacularly to keep things not biased and clean

Neos discord is YOUR failure. Stop trying to push it off onto "cryptobros"

Yeah I'm sure the slap on the wrist winkie face sure put your friends in their place

What Neos needed to do was have Devs say "looks, NCR is a part of Neos. You don't have to use it, but just stop attacking each other. NCR is going to stay" But instead you wanted to do the fun thing and imply that "well maybe... if you all complain and fight hard enough... we might consider removing it!" which is exaclty what you and the devs did.

NCR blew up at the hight of an anti-crypto wave that chronically online types would eventually get tired of as we all knew that... But instead of just respecting thr people who put their money into Neos FOR ANY REASON, they were craven and wanted to attack the outsiders

and that us vs outsidera mentallity is what we attribute to furries

and the way you all try to apply moral weight to reasons people bought NCR like "you speculated" etc etc is just another form of this intellectually bunk garbage you all have convinced yourself of

Reactant wasn't wrong about what he stated when he left. I've been in the furry ERP Discords servers. I've been to the private instances. I know how much the gold names, moderators, and mentors fraternize with the furry users - and the nepotism is real. Literally every anti-Karel user in this chat is some Rex or Avali or whatever furry avatar. I think using furries as a colloquialism to encapsulate the anti-Karel side is completely apropos. The vast majority of them are.

You and no one there seems to respect a free market, and fine, just leave it the hell alone instead of trying to apply your college sophomore socialist theories to everything

kindly fuck off. we've been interacting in this chat well without you and you're coming in acting like you know the users and our motives.

Probably BusinessLawyer or some heated Froox sycophant.

we've been talking for months, just go back to discord. I have the smallest of pittances of NCR that I've had for a year and my motive is to not let people get away with a blatant scam

Watching the fireworks. To me there's some of the funniest stuff in here

Go back to the discord and cry there. Or log in Neos and get your bad dragon out and start coping that way.

hes just grumy he cant find an animal to molest on his walk today

^

Oh no im a Rexouium, terrifying.

Reactant was wrong about a lot of things, called upon older non furry-users disrespectfully, lied about bans. But enough of him, we're over that.

I agree, now piss off

More lies spread by people. One of the team themselves said the monthly cost for Neos infrastructure was close to $10k a month, which is what the Patreon is paying for, but no, let's just claim Karel is pocketing it instead and the platform is magically running off fairy dust instead. The irony would be that if enough people cancelled and moved to Froox's Patreon that they could no-longer cover costs, you just KNOW they would blame Karel, despite the fact it would be self-sabotage.

You mean that ONE guy, literally months ago? Who isn't here anymore? https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/024/036/material.jpg

Somehow Patreon was supposed to pay for upkeep while also paying a full silicon valley salary to the 14 or so volunteer devs. Damn all that embezzled money

The sentiment you were replying to was brought up quite often on the official Discord, that they didn't want it to grow beyond the cosy little community that it is/was.

The funding of the servers is no problem anymore with the ico money, I mean the ico made 60 million $ in eth right and it is so liquid like Karel claims it.
So it can run for the next 500 years without patreon.

My god, $8000 for 80 hours of work. I've put over 2000 hours into making content for Neos at this point. Don't I feel like a rube for walking away with nothing.

Unfortunately a lot of that money had to go on buybacks when the "crypto bad" side of the team did everything in their power to sabotage their own platform.

Patreon = upkeep, ICO money = growth.

He was trying to salvage it before it crashed into the ground, which unfortunately a lot of the team and community were trying hard to do, while watching with glee and rubbing their hands together as they enjoyed people's suffering.

I have a Patreon and a Koffee. I have 1 Patreon.

For a grand total of $1 a month.