Wouldn't that mean the inspector and asset importation among other things would need to exist in the UE client?

What's the minimum lock up period for staked NCR?

wait actually
what would the point of multiple clients be?

You cant change anything in your own custom client except for default userspace & rendering (to maintain interop)

Userspace manipulation is already fully possible via facets

The only enticing thing you could do with a custom client would be adding extra but unsynced functionality (the exact same way modding current neos works)

there just doesnt seem to be benefits considering the rules you need to abide by for interop

It is theoretically possible to implement compatible sessions and syncing in multi-user environments between clients of differing engines.

Does this not mean the entire experience of editing, developing will change

Absolutely, but what's the point? it'll just boil down to different rendering & some optimizations when using different clients.

So that Karel's team can continue to develop their ideas and goals in Unreal.

While the Unity client... implements something else

Thats a total misunderstanding or willful misinterpretation of what we are saying and doing as always. The point is to give developers the freedom they wanted and in some use cases is very much needed. This is not some Unity vs Unreal client thing. Yes we showed some Unreal footage because that is what we had at hand at the time of editing that very much UI and Neos Foundation focused video. Unity, Unreal and any other builds (I know of at least one more thats being worked on) should be open source and not controlled by any party as you suggest not sure why. They should be available for anyone to fork, may the best flavour win. Compatibility with Neos Cloud is also not a given. I don’t think a heavily centralised cloud is the only solution or the inevitable future for metaverses. That is extremely short sighted thinking. Also huge difference between keeping data format compatibility and multiplayer compatibility.

Sortof akin to SL's variety of clients

I feel like you could accomplish this with solid API development, it's ambitious though

Based on the history of social VR and neos itself, as long as there's someone playing and there's no multiplayer interop, everyone will congregate to the clients with players, almost completely regardless of quality.

Not having multiplayer interop will kill countless development efforts and projects.

I think it's pretty poggers that NCR was never like, actually adopted by the playerbase because sharing and open-source was preferred.
they bought into it, but never used it ingame like ever

There wasn't a direct workflow for fund transfer like with PayPal. For NCR you'd needed to:

Step 1: Get a Coinbase account
Step 2: Buy ETH
Step 3: Transfer ETH to an external wallet, while making sure I have enough ETH to cover the transaction fee
Step 4: Go to Uniswap
Step 5: Find the NCR/ETH pair
Step 6: Find out the amount of NCR I would like to swap for (also another thing the calculator would need to figure out transaction fee for)
Step 7: Get the in-game wallet address
Step 8: Send NCR to in-game wallet with further gas fees.

Do the reverse to take funds out etc.

Meanwhile, alternatives like PayPal were just create PayPal account, add payment method, enter destination email address and amount and the costs were also immediately visible per transaction before you sent anything

I imagine once Neos makes it as seamless, NCR will be actively used providing the overhead costs aren't significant

Karel i understand your frustrations at moderating this channel at time, as many voices seam to be against you, but this is also a sign that there are still people out there that are actually interested in the future of neos. By alienating and banning them, you just removing the people that are bold enough to voice their opinions. And yes, ProbablePrime is definitly from "the other team" (as listed on their website) but also well respected as one of the main contributors, organizers and creators of neos. By banning him without giving warning or reason, you undermine your own project and peoples believe that your way could ever be successful. Specially because you talk about compatibility with Neos cloud and its objects between different clients and projects. If there is no space for different ideas, there never will be different projects in the first place. Please rethink this.

I have a question for Karel , will current worlds, items and stuff that we've built with the logixs system work in the Unreal Build?

Looks like all the funny Vr stuff is gone so will I.

From what I have seen, I don't understand why all this is even happening.

So what is going to happen to all tutorials for new system? I was watching a few videos to prepare for the new client. But I guess now there won't be more guides?

I just want to virtually hand files to people and be able to subject my friends to memes that I pulled out of my pocket. Realtime development, a VR myspace page that you build yourself, decorating with objects you have collected from all around

That dream lives in whatever platform has the passion and dedication to let it exist. Neos was, and I want to believe still is that.

should be basically all the same

oh okay. I just wanted to fund some projects, but this whole thing has me scratching my head. Like giving NCR to people, even as a tip for their work, sounded so dope.

good day. out of curiosity, i've got a question for karel: what web browser do you use, and why?

Hi

it's very early in development but it's using matrix for the user system and IPFS for the inventory. You will be able to host all your own stuff. Actually decentralized/federated, actually open source. They're working hard to get back what we all hoped Neos would be. More support gives us more time to work on it:
https://www.patreon.com/pupperdev

Hi Violet , I’d like to kindly remind you that this group is dedicated to discussing Neos Credits and Neos Metaverse and as such it’s not a good place for advertising other projects or their funding.

I do wish you guys luck but please remove your post and adhere to the chat group rules, thank you ☺️

Is wiki.neos.com going to be fixed? wiki.neosvr.com works, but a good chunk of people still use links to wiki.neos.com.

Hi Neos Team, I am currently trying to purchase more storage with my NCR, as my storage has just expired, however, Neos is saying I have zero NCR in-game, while on the website, it is showing the correct amount. Any way I'll be able to purchase storage?

Is it possible to buy storage using the website?

2 Factor is no longer working on the website. Yes i am sure. I even tried a recovery code

I take it back, for some reason there is a new system in place that authorizes without using the installed 2 factor auth... something that should be impossible, yes really impossible, because the datas should be encrypted with that 2 Factor. Its the reason that neos in the past was not able to recover someones NCR if the 2 factor was lost. Instead the new 2 factor is a code send by email. This is such an obvious breach of your internal security, i want a statement.

"2 factor"

You don't understand... this new system would be fine if it would have asked "we had a change of system, please type in your 2fa to switch to the new system. Here is a documentation of the changes in encryption we are doing"

It is not about the new system, its about this showing that something is severly f... up

you have enabled login 2fa? since by default its only for transaction?

It means the data on the host side got not encrypted with that 2fa to begin with

i did a transaction and i had it activated obviously

I want a statement HOW this is possible. Someone is severly breaching security. Its like you having a safe at a bank and they give you the only key and promisse that this is the only key and they can not do anything if you lose it. And then you go there and they say "oh we switched out how our security works, we don't use keys anymore, please tell us your last name so you get access to your money again"

Would you trust the security that you got promissed?

Its not about the CHANGE of the security, its about them not needing the key do to so... it means someone lied

So all the NCR on my account isn't protected? It's just another password check?

If its password protected at all and not just an entry...

This is a horrible breach of trust. There is literally money involved.

Yes i am aware the bank could go drill that safe, in our example, and take out the money and put it in another safe. But this is absolutly unacceptable and shows a lack of awareness for safety. I chose to protect my NCR with the means of that 2fa, i chose to accept that this is the only way to get to that money again. If my e-mail is hacked, i had trust that this would in no way impact the NCR on my account, because the security of the 2fa would prevent any actions involving them.

This security is now gone, without asking for any key, without asking for any permission. This is absolutly not acceptable and i am obviously angry about this total lack of professionalism.

I kind of also want some answers, since I was about to put about 1.2 ETH into my account.

wait, attempting to perform a transaction didn't result in needing 2fa??

it sends now a mail with a key. So the old 2fa is just... gone. Without asking, without needing them for the change.

oh, that is very bad

I want the staking to go well. If my endpoint information isn't secured, that's very tricky for me to trust the system. Really hoping there is a simple explanation for all this.

im at least aware that there's some kind of old and new system for ncr and it is transferred somehow

So, from my understanding of conversations in this chat it seems that Neos is aiming to eventually allow alternate clients to exist. Is that correct?

I thought FUD was banned here

Karel @malooniac Why don't you change the chat link on coingecko to telegram instead of discord?

I can't even find any information about NCR in the discord.

What's FUD? lmao

I'm a dev asking questions about the platform lol

I have to agree with this. I can find lots of information on the Unity client, but I can't find any discussions on the future staking and utility of NCR. Are they hidden?

All discussion on NCR on discord is within the # neos-credits-ncr channel and in various topic threads

Oh, okay. I'll have to take another look

Also, there are a lot of anti-NCRs and anti-CEOs on Discord, which creates a negative community.

If you have been here for long enough or know the entire picture starting from before the hold, you understand why

2FA is not gone, with 2FA active no one can log in to your Neos Account let alone withdraw NCR

Email confirmation is an additional security measure used by most managed wallets including most exchanges

Personally, I think the CTO is more to blame, and I don't care about the past. I just want the best for the future.

We are aiming to have multiple clients for users to choose from and also have all clients including the Unity ones open source.

How are you going to do that with the Unity one?

If the clients dont have to use the same database structure nor have to be compatible on a networking level for multiplayer

What connects them as not just separate things?
Because from what was said before it sounds like they'd just be their own isolated projects with at best some vague shared ideas

The data model I would say would be the minimum connecting requirement to make them part of the same Neos Metaverse family.

Firstly I expect Tomáš to make good on his promise to open source NeosVR. Something we agreed a long time ago will be done.
Secondly I expect other devs to do Unity builds as well as it is easier than Unreal as the data model is geared towards it and Neos Foundation is willing to support that effort both financially and otherwise.

Ahh, that's a pity. As much as I know, I might be wrong. When he left he stopped working on NeosVR, and there is so much work left to do to even be able to consider making it open source. There are a lot of proprietary components that need replacement, before any of that could happen.

Did Floximo just got banned for questioning the unannounced 2FA change?

isn't furry dev resign???

yes from the company

but why would work if resigned?? can't expect quitter to work......

no idea, besides a promise of some sort

Karel if dev quit, why say he needs to work??

gone...…………..

how open source NEOSVR if tomas quit????

It was definitely more than that. Claiming things that 2FA was, that it isn't

this seems unclear to me
if 2fa (authenticator) used to be required and now it has involuntarily changed to 2fa (email) how was this possible to perform securely?

What do you actually mean, how it was technically possible or is it semantics?

maybe i am confused what 2fa is responsible for, if that makes sense

and why there are two separate ones

2FA technically. It is just another gate protected by a cryptographic proof to allow access to a function. Its application is defined by however the hosting party configures the services. By switching from TOTP to e-mail verification, technically no security was circumvented, broken nor missing. So the technical part is sound

Semantically however switching from TOTP to e-mail verification is unsound. If someone relied on TOTP protecting the funds and then only simple e-mail verification is possible as a second factor, it raises valid concerns

Karel please fix and put TOTP in place again to prevent unauthorized access to Neos based wallets. Thank you

so if i understand, because the old system with off chain uses 2fa only for allowing user transactions only, can be separate of a new system

Technically it can still be used, however I don't know much about the backend system, I can only assume things and base these mostly of things said in this group. As I haven't checked trying to withdraw my NCR yet

fair
this can get complex easily for someone who isn't very aware, all these changes should need to be documented and explained..

Email verification is a possible factor in 2FA, however it is a weak one. SMS is a bit better, but they still cannot hold a candle to OTPs

both are relatively bad even if it's just "good enough"

Also, if you want to troll this chat, stay at least truthful and don't spice claims with FUD

Now I am even more confused. Does this mean each version will have separate staking and security practices for wallet linking? If the team that worked on the Unity system are all not employed, how can we know they will follow with the new staking plans?

that cant be right, i assume the "new" system is meant to replace the "old", regarding ncr
and that should mean it includes staking on the "new" one only since that's what is important?

I also expect a single API for the Neos wallet system

Then different clients could use that API to transfer micro amounts of NCR between accounts

unity client would have to be updated for this to be true i guess

Not necessarily, the backend could just link into the new API or it could be completely rewritten from scratch to accommodate the old client

Legacy API in sync with the new API

Speculation however

I think he was asking, if the old dev that left, will put ncr into a new platform aswell

First time I hear about a new NCR platform by the former dev

What's the point of the Unreal build if it's much more work than a new unity one? Isn't that kind of shooting yourself in the foot?

That's why I asked on why so many builds on so many engines. The Unreal one looks fine. Just focus on the Unity and Unreal one. Just that with the Unity one's dev team now gone, I guess all the effort should go to the Unreal one? How many teams are there for this project?

I mean I know of one? whoever karel has doing the unreal build. Unity as you said isn't going anywhere and I know someone was attaching a godot renderer but they dropped the project a while ago according to them.

Course they didn't have the source so it was a bodge job of hooking into the existing DLLs. Not sure Karels but as far as i know he doesn't either, but to his credit they look to have the MTC first room mostly set up in unreal.

the godot project is actually resumed but will not be opensource nor handed out its a side project for them

Oh good, I hope they have fun with it.

You can still use TOTP to protect login and thus NCR transactions as well. We’ll for sure add it in the future for moving NCR only so it’s more comfortable and you don’t have to protect login as much if you don’t want to.

Let's all comment when we hit 666 members as if it weren't the second time around

But why do we have to disable OTP for logging into our accounts on the website? It doesn't sound like this was an issue in the past based on what everyone is saying

if I need to get my address info to send NCR to and I'm not able to use any client, how am I supposed to just have access without always leaving my account exposed?

Already got the 666 screenshot somewhere :D

Question: is criticism FUD?

We have a new one now 😈

Shouldn't OTP be turned on to withdraw NCR?

Since it is apparent to me you're targeting an open spec, would this mean that Neos and it's asset system will be open to federation with future platforms? If that is true, please provide a link to any documentation of how the asset structure is currently designed so integrations can be made.

Also speaking of the unreal build, is it loading assets using the neos API?

I hope so. I've seen so many cool things and having it available in the Unreal system would be amazing

Well, it also has major implications for what the trailer is trying to show.

I see new unity metaverse in steam VR. Is this old devs make new game?

Can you dm me the name so I can check it out? Either way I don't think it is

Same. Equally curious.

If any of you get it, pass it my way

Yo excuse me I’m having trouble a registering neos Vr

Hello guys

What’s up

Great community

Nothing much

Oh ok

Is anyone here ?

I’m having trouble trying to register neos Vr

How are you trying to register? I just used the client

Hey

Any update on this Karel @malooniac ? It's preventing me from using my NCR to get more storage and hampers my ability to use a lot of Neos currently.

how will NEOSVR be open source without frooxius???

I guess only the Unreal version with Cooper Planet will be open source?

Excellent question. I would guess that whatever code Karels team comes up with will be open source.

Got to love when you get the Patreon and you don't get the storage

Hi Josha can you please give me more details about your issue? I’d be happy to help.
We have added “Create an account” form to the account.neos web UI so that should be fairly straighforward process. Or are you having trouble to register in-game?

What about the other people? It sounds like they are having issues with the system?

Hi Lilith Lilith, it seems from your comment that you might have a problem with not receiving your Patreon storage benefits?
If that is the case, could you please email us your details on hello@neos.com so we can assist you? 😊

We are still tweaking the automation of the new system at the moment, so some issues are unfortunatelly possible. Many thanks for your support and patience!

Hello😊If you are referring to issues with Patreon and Cloud storage sync, we are in the process of making fixes and working on full automation of this system. In a meantime, anyone experiencing issues can (and should) of course flag it up either here or via hello@neos.com so we can assist with individual cases in this interim period.

I guess that answers Lex's issue

I already did

Thank you,I think I've got you now. It seems that this one has slipped from my radar, apologies. Your issue was with buying your storage under a different Patreon email than your Neos account email correct?

Yup

I think I have found your email now as well, so I have replied. 😊

he says want to open source unity client

how will he do it without frooxius??

That is a great question to ask him.

Brownie points, I guess.

@malooniac Karel hi,i want to check CDFT amount, is it better to contact from hello@neos.com ?

under neos unity (legacy?) client, i can't find any tokens. under website, i checked only NCR, not include KFC, CDFT.

Is buying storage with NCR deprecated?

it is not
i just did it less than a day ago, albeit not easily

Well, I mean, with the in-game and website wallets desyncing, it doesn't seem like it's properly supported.

More and more people cant access their NCR in-game anymore.

I'm seeing a lot of that coming up in the discussions.

it only seems to be an clientside error and you can still bypass the initial check

What is the fix and is there anything that can be done to prevent? Any work-around yet to get things to display right?

if you manage to perform a transaction (ie storage purchase; enable the buy button with an inspector and you can force a request) then it may show up and work again properly
i have no idea why this is

Didn't someone on the Discord say they planned to release a whole tutorial for that?

Hi all, I hope everyone is having a great week so far.

As we have been getting quite a few emails and messages regarding the storage purchasing issue. I’d like to point out that we are aware of current challenges with buying storage in Neos and the inconvenience this is causing.
I can absolutely assure you that we are working on it.
Soon you will be able to purchase storage directly through your account interface on Neos website (the greyed out button will finally come alive!✨) It is taking a wee bit longer because we’ve had 101 other issues to tackle but we are of course making this a priority.

Thank so much for you for your understanding!

Hi Kazu. The CDFTs should be largely converted to NCR - if you have an enquiry about the balance please email us on hello@neos.com so we can take a look for you. 😊

Also someone has asked about KFC, this was a testing currency and we won’t be using it anymore. Overall, your Neos web account should display the correct amount of NCR and nothing else. (No CDFT or KFC).

Apparently, some people of the community are not happy hearing about the loss of KFC. I'm not sure why, so I guess someone can fill me in on why the testing currency has such a high priority to the community?

its fun, and a flex since big number go brr

so people just collected it like old school $DOGE?

like monopoly money

has no worth, certain devs could just make infinitely more. its just fun

Not sure why they will be removing KFC, its whole point was a testing currency so you could test your functionality without using or requiring NCR, also acted as a specifically no value currency for game worlds to use should they wish to without having to be handling currency with value in case of issues.

I have a feeling that last part is why

It would encourage use of ncr exclusively if there is no alternative

It wasn't a 'testing currency' like a temporary thing before NCR was added and only meant for that, it was for the purpose of testing before using a currency. Will just need to do something else I guess

Did the community vote for this to happen?

No, saw no notice of it's removal aside from the above message

*Gasp* My 1,531 KFC!?
Nooooooooooo xP

i'm a billionaire, why?

I am not sure I've personally seen the option for a community vote regarding anything really. Certainly not in regards to changes in features

Nice

I guess with the news today, switching to Unreal makes alittle more sense?

I guess so. Sounds like the Unity version is being stripped for preperation of the migration

KFC was used in game for games as a way to have a kind of currency reward that is not tied to real money.

For example theres a fishing world where you can sell your fish for KFC

by the community that is

its also a great way to test your currency implementations without having to move real money

This - since you can make "tip jars" and other payment methods using in game scripting, it was best to test with the fake currency first before implementing the real currency functionality. You don't want to be testing functionality with real money - or having your payment fail during a real scenario without having been tested prior. I guess theoretically you could make 2 Neos accounts and just shuffle the real money between them to test out implementations now.

there were a good bit of games that used kfc as a fun reward

Is there a solid explanation why it was removed? I'm gonna assume like others it's in preparation of something

according to what was given, it doesn't seem that way.
As per Andrea: "Also someone has asked about KFC, this was a testing currency and we won’t be using it anymore. Overall, your Neos web account should display the correct amount of NCR and nothing else. (No CDFT or KFC)."

okay but whats the functional replacement? Being able to test transaction systems is actually vital.

I don't know. I guess NCR is ready for actual use?

do you really want to use NCR for testing systems you dont know for sure work? like what if you have something wrong and it sends it into the ether? Or someone pays some and it fails?

I mean, sounds like I wouldn't? I don't build things or make cool systems.

I mean generic you, but my point stands. its there, or was, so that you can test in game systems without risking something

I mean... I don't know. Having a testing system sounds like a good idea, but I'm guessing here was some major reason testing shouldn't be done anymore? I just heard about this project because I was looking forward to see Cooper Planet's return

Neos Has A Chance With The Unity Changes That May Destroy VR Chat

What changes?

well KFC not actually being a crypto or able to interact with any chain made it a poor test currency in the end anyway

but I'd rather something replace it

You mean KFC, right?

KFC was perfect for testing in software applcation of NCR.

You just make a tool, use KFC and once you know everything works you just swap the tool over to use NCR

yeah, thats funny

Yeah but only in neos and afaik it can't interact with any contract or help test any sort of automatic withdrawls etc

Well yeah but it was for in application testing, iirc it was also used to test Patreon reward seeding

or CDFT, im not sure, one of the two or maybe both

I guess we'll have a reason soon why its removed

or not

Karel @malooniac, unfortunately, as people have stated here already. The removal of a testing currency to test transactions in new projects will hinder the development of these projects. KFC wasn't supposed to be just a currency to test the Neos transaction system. It was a currency to use during development of new content for Neos to be able to have completely fake transactions that actually work like real ones.
To me this looks to me like one more thing where you alienate the creator community again. This time even away from creating systems that interact with NCR.
I'd suggest you seek the dialogue with the creator community as to what could be done to improve the situation and restore a healthy relationship.

im sorry but its for Kompletely fake transactions as its Kompletely Fake Currency.

jokes aside, yeah im not sure how your supposed to test systems in game without it.

KFC is no longer available in NeosVR? I don’t think we have removed it. There’s a deeper issue with us not being able to update NeosVR to make it work with the newer NCR API. KFC is meant to test application side transactions, interactions with LogiX nodes. That wouldn’t be useful on the web for now. Neos compatible clients will for sure feature test tokens if not KFC directly to test token transactions.

Balances for both (or all 3 if you have CDFT) are showing up as 0 in game

Atleast my guess would be whatever endpoint is checked for balances isn't there anymore or isn't responding correctly? Another user was able to show that transactions with both NCR/KFC are still possible by bypassing the client side sanity check that just compares the balance to what you have. (just re-enable the sending button)

I see, if all balances are showing 0 in NeosVR thats probably a good thing to indicate that NeosVR transactions are now not available until an update to the new NCR API. Not much point of testing transactions with KFC if NCR is not available in the client anyways. I hope the functionality will return to NeosVR at some point.

Perhaps reverting the changes to how the API responds would be a good idea until you can update Neos?

It seems like transactions do work just whatever the endpoint that provides the amount isn't working. Making the process of doing any transaction difficult.

There are now automated withdrawals and deposits. NeosVR is set up for manual ones which would be confusing to users. There will be staking soon as well. NeosVR definitely needs an update unfortunately. Making Neos Account managed wallets better and transactions faster is important for the future of NCR and Neos Metaverse in general.

Wouldn't it have been better to keep both endpoints active until they can be safely deprecated?

It certainly would if that was possible.

What makes it impossible?

how will update since frooxius gone?? will you have to open source with new team?

Automated withdrawals and staking are big changes to NCR that the old way NCR works in NeosVR does not support.

I think NeosVR will be open sourced at some point as was promised. Aside of that there will be more clients that will be open source.

You actually have to have a test currency backend that is working exactly the same as the production currency. This is required for integration testing the systems before moving them to production. Also, I don't see why there was even a need to break the NeosVR compatible API to begin with. They could have continued working in parallel, even if the NeosVR compatible layer was just a translator for the new currency API

I'm certain that is possible, as the legacy API could be replaced with a translation layer to contact the new API. No update in NeosVR needed and you'd have KFC and automated withdrawals working again

but does promise matter if frooxius no more work for you?

why would he do it if resign?

afaik there is no development happening to NeosVR (legacy unity client) any more. That also means there will be no open source variant of NeosVR

sad...……….,

Brownie points is all he has, and with the team still maintaining the servers despite supposedly not caring about the community by account of Karel, I don't think he has any.

If they didn't care why run the weekly events, and maintain servers? lol. I never understood that argument.

This is really ambiguous. Who is the he? Which team?

The old neos team, and he being Karel.

I believe Karel (Neos Foundation) is the one maintaining the cloud and any server VPCs at this point. I do not believe the Neos Team maintains any parts of the current infrastructure and may not even have access. Karel can confirm that.

The devs do indeed care about the community. Tbh they are cornerstones of the user community.

While I want NCR to do well and the new staking to be amazing, I have to agree the old team is still active because of notices for hours office streams, but I didn't know keeping the system components operational wasn't one of the tasks.

from what I read of their announcements of previous outages, they might be doing what they can but still do not have access to everything

Kinda IIRC Raithsphere runs the asset variance servers on his personal computers for everything else I believe the access is much less direct.

I think that's for supplemental support only and there's a VPC in the cloud that handles light volume

every little thing that happens has to be spun into a catastrophe around here

wild reading the discord where there's a channel dedicated to everyone in it trying to outdo themselves in exaggerated takes on every thing karel does

I think everyone's trying their best to fix things, maybe embrace that instead of pretending to care here then mask-off on the discord that actually youre only posting here to stir up shit to complain about

that aside it's weird to see devs now say "actually we were always planning to leave unity" THE MOMENT it becomes the hot thing to do

I swear to god these people are always so desperate to be on the popular side of everything

Most people over here dont even say anything as you get banned quite quickly for asking questions or criticising things.

Ban≠Mute?

but they were???

read back many years, they say so

they want custom engine for long time

we hated unity before it was cool 😤

seriously it was so bad then.. and now....
crashing constantly for meager issues, lag like hell, silly bugs like blendshapes

trade offer:
i get a video url
you get a unity crash

If that was true, I couldn't answer here

Karel should stop breaking things. People usually call out everything that breaks things for the creator community. Working against the community doesn't really help Neos Metaverse's cause. If there is no creator left, there is no content, the utility for NCR vanishes. We don't want that happen

i dont gonna list all the bans now, which got banned for little things.

Some got banned for simply joining, some for inviting people.

What are you talking about? The entire reason geenz was brought on by froox was to help with rendering so we could get rid of unity. The main purpose of UIX was to reduce reliance on unity. It's been causing issues for years, *especially* on Linux and android where major graphical issues and broken GC make the game pretty unplayable.

We were always planning to leave unity TBH. There has been work on a custom graphics engine for years now. The ColorX update was supposed to be a stop-gap while the new engine was being brought up to snuff, but replacing Unity was always on the roadmap.

Now there is just a huge financial incentive to do so more quickly, so. I mean, we'll see XD

Trade offer I swap to rgba32 and untick crunch *android build* locks up completely sometimes headset reset and Linux build goes *ha what's mem management*

I've been watching people get banned over some seriously small stuff. I'm seriously risking getting banned by even mentioning how "FUD" being a ban reason sounds very much like how a cult operates. "If you're not 100% in with these ideas and start questioning our logic, you're to be silenced." And if I get banned now, you know why. We're not allowed to question reasoning here. 🤷‍♀
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, should be responded to with reasons not to have those feelings, not banned. If you can't soothe those feelings, then maybe you might need to take a closer look at why people feel that way instead of just saying they're wrong for having those feelings. (and summarily launching them out an airlock)
This should be a place of intellectual conversation, not an echo chamber. Not being an echo chamber is important for a company to succeed, being able to admit wrongs, fix problems that arise, and make things better. Remember that it's hard to keep track of lies, and simpler to just be honest. People will ALWAYS catch you in a lie eventually. Not saying Karel is lying, just covering all the bases. It's important to be able to accept criticism and discuss it rather than assume everyone is out to slander you. Banning should only be for those who are legitimately trying to be shitty people, which is very hard to determine; not everyone's social skills are very good. (That would mean that bans should be very rare, and discussion should be the primary moderation tool.)

Oh damn, that was bigger than I thought it would look

Sorry, I ramble a bit

This is not about feelings really. I've seen people intentionally creating FUD being removed so far. Or those out right against Karel coming with unreasonable matters against him. If people who voice concerns or are questioning what's going on, then I wonder why I am still here and being able to talk.

FUD is a weird reason for banning, absolutely. At least in the way that the crypto community uses it it's literally conspiracy thought. In the original context of the Halloween documents it was an actual corporate policy for how to manage the threat of the OSS development model to their core product. It's fundamentally opaque as to the motivations of some rando in a chatroom, so calls of FUD are just weaving a narrative about them being part of a microsoft-spin-team tier disinformation campaign :P

Which is silly.

Some of those perceived unreasonable matters have been legitimate concerns, things that Karel assumed wasn't important, when in reality it was. Things that would interfere with his end goal, that he just doesn't want to deal with, but will have to when he gets to that point.

Indeed, I wonder about the Unreal Engine devs as well. Until recently the devs were known and interacting with the community. Everything was transparent and the community was heard and there was open dialogue.
I wonder, why can't we interact with the UE developers and create a good relationship with the community?

To me it looks more like intentional trolling being wrapped in something that looked like legitimate concerns. I'm confident that it was like that with at least a few of those people muted or removed from this group.

Most of it is most definitely trolling, or at least said with some venom in their words, but he still needs to make sure he takes care of every possible angle or he -will- land himself in hot water down the line that he could have prevented by listening to those snarky remarks. Many people are not favorable of him because he lets his emotions get out of hand, and he makes rash decisions. Either he needs to see an anger management specialist, or needs to disconnect his emotions from what's being said and look at everything from a logical standpoint. Emotional knee-jerk reactions will utterly destroy anything it's applied to.

I've been there, done that, and failed

Haven't we all :P Some people are not capable of doing that, and should not be in the position of dealing with Q&A. Some shouldn't even LOOK at the Q&A department, and have someone interpret things for them who know how to do it.

and I guess that it goes without saying, that it's okay to not be good at something. The important part of this, is to be able to acknowledge it, and follow the appropriate steps to address the issue, and either learn how to do it right, or find someone who can do it for you. None of us are true jacks of all trades, and we all need some help every now and then.

Hi. Why can't folks interact with the devs? They are on the Discord, no? (edit: see replies)

Neos has been phasing out unity bound components for a long time

No? like the team that isn't going to ever work with karel is, but we have no idea who the Unread Engine devs are.

The UE devs are not on the discord, we dont know who those are

Oooh! Yes, that is a concern (i genuinely apologize, I got like 2 hours of sleep)

This is partly why I'm so confused. How come the devs on one system are more outgoing and public, yet the newer system's devs aren't even available? Like, maybe they have some cool insights on things they're working on, but we don't get to see any of it.

Karel has cited fears of harassment iirc

It's possible to block people, so I don't see the risk in that case

Yeah, I don't get it either. The community outreach and management has been kinda abyssal, which confuses me, because I'm honestly of the opinion that the primary asset in the platform is the community created content. At the moment, I'm just like "okay, major changes ahead, entirely new engine in the mix, possibly breaking everything I have on the platform and... zero idea how to plan for it."

It is really weird coming from the previous MO, where we had pretty much entirely community sourced QA teams giving direct feedback on each non-hotfix update.

Glad we're getting such valuable community engagement, really feels like we have a voice

I mean how long has it been since any of you have known the details about the split? Does anyone even now know for sure?

Basically how long has a move to Unreal been a neccessity for Karel? Because it feels like a neccessity that's been thrust onto him, maybe from some outcome.

If that's the case, it feels unfair to be hounding him on details, especially when from what reports I've heard, the struggle to make things happen falls on him

Because from what I've been told, there's not any actual real anxiety within the community. Everyone across the pond is just saying Froox has the code and he'll launch the familiar client for everyone soon anyway.

So genuinely asking, are people really concerned, or are they mostly just drawn to an opportunity to concern-troll the shit out of the situation?

because it often feels mostly like the latter and basically more of the same disingenuous shit

How is it unfair ever to ask for more details about something like this??
If theres not more information about something they can just say so, this sounds kinda infantilizing

Message from Orc has been deleted because it contains swear words (???)

Lets pretend youre not biased and dont hate the guy. How its not fair is that it sounds like the split leaves one side to no real obligation to act, and the other has to rush to fabricate some sort of plans. One site is generally adored for having been silent on issues or communicating through proxies while another gets shit on for each effort exerted.

so you also basically spend a year subjecting this person to this treatment, then turn around and go "buh wuh I was asking a legitimate question! Why aren't they taking me seriously?"

How oyu feel about the guy is irrelevant.
People can ask questions, he can answers.
There's nothing unfair about that, if he hasnt had enough time yet to iron out some details, he has the power to say so.

Karel and Andrea are both Adults and they can both communicate for themselves

and tbh I really don't know if people care about what Karel will being to Neos so much as they want to interact with someone they hate and mine stuff to complain about

Love or hate someone but credit has to be given where it's due.

Youre an adult youre not always entitled to another adult's time or responses

especially when things are uncertain and they may not know all the answers themself.

Yeah and Karel can choose who to respond to as an adult.
Again this seems like you are infantilizing him, as if he cant handle people asking questions himself

be honest, you dont really care what he'll do, you just want him to fail and then go over and celebrate on the "real" client

No ones infantilizing him by calling out the real intent here

I dont see how that is relevant regardless, i have my own thoughts on how things will turn out that doesnt change anything about what we are talking about

yeah it does, lmao

Intent doesnt matter.

People are asking questions, karel can choose to respond to them and moderate the space.

It makes all the difference because no one wants to interact with someone they know is acting not in good faith

tbh I would be ignoring your ass too

youre not fooling anyone

Says the one constantly attacking me

why do you feel youre entitled to everyone's time or every thought in their head just by asking? Thats the real infantile behavior imo

Often interactions with people you disagree with are not for any of the two actually interacting, but those on the side lines.

this

Someone asking a question doesnt mean they are entitled to anything.
There's nothing wrong with just asking a question.

You are entitled to ask, you are not inherently entitled to an answer.

Also your constant shifting to try and make this personal and attack me directly is incredibly transparent. If you want to complain about bad faith, maybe you should look at what you are doing first.

I'm glad you seem to have found common ground with sharkmare. :)

It comes across as extremely tonedeath and maybe just WEIRD to spend so much time being a part of a dogpile against someone, then turn around, put on a mask and say "wtf theyre ignoring me? but im a person qith questions! QUESTIONS FOR GODS SAKE"

in that I assume theyre entertaining a peanut gallery and have no higher intentions yeah

Well Karel has so far answered all my questions and i have no made any such complaints.

Also not attacking someone even if you dislike them potentially isnt "putting on a mask" it's called being civil.
Regardless how you feel about someone theres no progress to be made in slinging insults and attacks

I guess now you just want access to his devs that for all I knwo may not exist, and if I was him I think it'd be extremely stupid to line them up just to be distracted by stale drama and disingenuous behavior

Well I never requested such but it would be neat, since if we'd have the devs here we could ask more specific questions about implementations.

I know this may be a bit confusing if youve not played neos or played it just to hang out but, a lot of us including myself are developers who create things within neos, so getting an understanding of the implementations is a pretty important thing for what we do

then you probably understand how much work is ahead and how uncertain things are I assume

maybe right now patience is in order.. youre giving Froox that patience, maybe give it to the other if you actually care

Things being uncertain is fine, you dont have to speak in absolutes

How am i not giving karel patience exactly?

I assume

Only absolute is I have no idea what is happening anymore.

weve been in that club for almost 2 years now where you been?

Has source, doesn't have source, wants change, wants updates.
I just want stake, but stake is only good if all systems work?
I find trailer, get reminded of the old Cooper's Planet project that I missed, and think on how well it could finally be.

Are people hounding froox right now for updates? I bet if I asked him a question directly Id have 20 furs down my throat and not in a good way

honestly i dont even want to know what his DMs look like right now. lol

Yeah I dont know whats going on either

People are from time to time,but the difference here is that from the Neos discord the response is to wait for an announcement.

Karel on the other hand has been making announcements and not said to wait for another announcement

As i said he has the power to say when not to ask questions

I imagine alot kinder than karel's and from a mental health perspective I think it matters alot

Releasing things like this update to the website UI is gonna have people asking questions, and mentioning UE and stuff like that is also having people ask questions naturally

at the very least from a tolerance to face the community

yeah, ok fair enough

my issue is I feel those asking questions are often just doing motivated speaking, not really wanting to be a part of what theyre asking about

Eh, i think that would also be fine if it was the case. as was pointed out a bit up any answer to a question given is for more than just the person asking the question, it answers it for anyone else who has a similiar or the same question, so personal investment isnt really an issue

then I guess my suggestion would be for karel to just ignore certain people if he knows theyre just interacting to waste his time

yeah, thats my feedback I think

My suggestion there would be more to manage your time.
Dont answer questions if theres other things you need to do, or delegate

The problem is, a few of these questions are intentionally loaded with information that instigates FUD.
Also you guys were talking about different things, so you couldn't agree anyway

Honestly I am happy for the changes. I was banned from the platform for baseless reasons with no proof, no appeal and no redemption. All that ncr unavailable to trade. Hopefully with the right people incharge i can get a review of my account so i can enjoy what the platform was ment to be.

I spoke out about a user grooming a minor and because his mate ran a popular degenerate private world the mods were pressed into banning me instead

https://moderation.neos.com/

was that the fabricated evidence case?

no, before iirc?

The people that literally play the game aren't a part of what they're talking about? Karel has placed a clear divide between "players" and "investors", but without players, a vital part of the game is lost. So much of what makes neos what it is comes from the UGC, which is made by, y'know, players. That's the crux of the argument we're making.

thats odd considering now it seems the target is someone who is both a player and investor xD

Didn't Karel say something along the lines of "This isn't about the players, this is about the investors" at one point?

i would not be able to say

You do realize that an account ban doesnt stop you from logging in ergo doesnt stop you from using your NCR? right?

Like this just seems like fear mongering or uninformedness

i thought some bans have resulted in the inability to log in.?

No bans stop you from logging in, the the only thing that can stop a log in is the way certain account restrictions against wiki abusers were handled by karel or whoever. Which was to iirc just unathenticate the account.
Which id assume was not on purpose, although karel or andrea could comment on that

here more info on bans also
http://wiki.neosvr.com/Moderation#Moderator_Capabilities

I did forget to mention one exception also there with the rare account bans

so, it should still be possible to log into the webpage and transfer NCR out

Yup yup

And if you cannot do that, you could still write to hello@neos.com and ask for the NCR amount to be transferred

Thank you.

is account.neos.com currently down?

Seemingly

Still looks to be down here

Still the case

Still down.

@Karel @malooniac

The heck? Now how am I supposed to get the deposit address...

Website down?

Websites still down yeah

yeah. what happen? Where support?

it's currently about 10pm for both andrea and karel so i would not expect a reply today (this is assuming they are in prague)
best to expect a mention monday morning to mid day Prague time

https://imgur.com/a/qWvtnNp

so does this mean no staking now?

is normal website next?

what do you mean?

aren't websites on same system?

I dont think the main landing page is hosted on azure, could be wrong tho @LinkaIndustries do you know?

the main page seems to be a amazon server but to my recollection its just a redirect to WEDOS

so the main page is wedos

Was probable prime kicked?

A while ago now.

Are you sure that he was kicked and not left?

Yes, mostly because he said so. lol

and it was just after him pointing out a couple things, i do not recall what exactly it was at this point, as i said its been a few weeks.

Yes, he was banned, prime mentioned it when that occurred on discord https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/996964315145961542/1147789762229440523

Also Karel pointed out why he was banned

and then delete prime last message so he look bad

Account site still dead.

Yeah I still get the azure 403. Microsoft docs say this error comes up when the site's billing limit is reached, the app was stopped manually, or when a resource quota limit was reached. What's going on?

Gonna have to wait for a statement from either Karel or @malooniac

it's now almost 11am so it seems likely one of them will notice soon hopefully

Hi all, yes messages received loud and clear, thank you🙏... apologies for all the inconveniece this is causing and thank you for informing us. We are looking into the issue and we will of course keep you updated!

Everything should now work as normal now, apologies once again for the glitch! Thank you so much for your patience.

Seems to be working 👍

Some peeps are curious what the problem may have been.
From the fix i'd assume there was a change done to the url the app is served on and it was just forgotten to redirect, am i correct here or was it something more severe?

Thanks a million for the quick fix!

The accounts page is failing to log in for me. The error is "TypeError: Failed to fetch"

have you retried or only tried once?

Just tried again. Same error

odd

The error appears for anything I type in and hit submit

login works for me and typing in random thingsleads to "invalid credentials" thats odd behaviour the failed to fetch

that happens if going through neosvr.com, use https://account.neos.com

I just clicked on the sign-in link from the neos.com website, that link is wrong?

ive gone to the sign in page now from all places and not found one that doesnt work for me, so no clue whats causing it, link is correct

that link is correct, if it's actually neos.com, not neosvr.com

Maybe try this link: https://account.neos.com/ui/

Thank you for fixing it!

What was the problem? Is this Telegram channel the best way to notify the Neos team of future outages (if there ever are any)?

There is no neos team anymore.
All we have is the shadow dev team "neos foundation" as far as I've gathered
Despite old team neos resigning they still clean up API breakages though, but thu have nothing to do with the new account page, that's entirely neos foundation

I guess I was referring to the group/team/entity that is currently actively operating/fixing Neos and specifically the folks who fixed this recent glitch.

I just didnt know the word to use other than "the Neos team"

The old team also maintains things, like when messages started to fail most of the time

As far as I know the only user facing thing the new team works on is the new web UI

But if there's more please correct me

Ok. So to break down my question:

in the event that a glitch like this happens again, what is the best and quickest way to notify the apropriate person/people? Is it this Telegram grup or some other way?

I'm also wanting to know as well.

The telegram most likely. The servers are supposed to be the new teams responsibility.

So, upon recommendation on discord, i came here, because i pay for bladerunner on patreon since end of august (due to my storage space suddenly being way more full, than it should have been) and i still am agent smith level

or i don't get the benefits of bladerunner, i should have 25gb storage, i'm still on 5gb storage

the admins have recommended others to reach out to hello@neos.com in some cases, but i think you are in the right place
i believe @malooniac can help with this patreon issue?

i'm still very new to telegram, like i just created an account for it or logged in minutes before my first post

also i have social anxiety, while i can interact with most ppl, there's a level i can't really go to, due to that

I get the new systems are being made, but the number of reported issues only going up feels it is getting out of control

Is it possible the previous issues of NCR balances breaking is related to the Patreon thing?

it is no fun, when your storage, that you pay for, stays on a lower level for weeks

That means you didn't get your NCR either. Sorry to hear

neos bot didn't send me a message on september 1st

and why did i pay more than gunter level, in 2 weeks, for bladerunner, i changed to bladerunner near end of august, had another 7 taken on 1st of september

ok 6 on 28th of august and 7,20 on 1st of september for bladerunner

that's... weird. Guess we have to wait and see what Andrea and Karel have to say. Have you sent them an email?

no, because i don't know, what to put in it

13,20§ would probably be gunter level and that's what i paid for bladerunner?

I don't know. We're not staff. Only Karel and Andrea would be able to help, I think?

Hi @Berny4000 I have just found your email, I am very sorry about the issue and making you wait. We will definitelly look at it and I will come back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for emailing us and letting me know!

Can I stake?

Y'all should check out the recent announcements on the Neos discord :3

oh wow... So no more dev team for Unity client?

All staff just disappeared. No more staff roles

Wiki died

When new wiki?

Oops.. too soon?

Idk mayne, it was a fun ride.

just a notice that Resonite will be announced tomorrow

https://www.patreon.com/Resonite

https://imgur.com/a/jsOJrwp

So Neos Unity is dead? Only new client?

seems fine?

Wiki seems working?

Pry gonna get banned for this but Plz yall, support Froox with their new project, and if I am booted, I salute you all

o7

Will new project work with Neos?

Not necessarily saying you have to donate, but just mentioning that as of now Neos unity client is officially dead.

o7

Very probably not

He hasn't banned be for calling out his lies so far so we'll see.

Not super likely.

Although. There is an account downloader that they have been encouraging people to use. Speculation is that the new project will allow the community to bring over some of their Neos content.

Still should backup your account if you haven't already, the link is super wide spread so ask around for it and you should find it

I'd honestly be surprised if it didn't.

Since ProbablePrime (in an office hours) confirmed they've got the whole public DB backed up, it'd be weird to have everything but 90% of it's broken

i could get the link for yall

Or dm me about it if yall wish as I don't wanna post links to it as I don't want people to reverse engineer it to block it

I just think they value the backwards compatibility

So no steak?

no steak?

mmm steak

yum

Stek

I would love a steak right about now

So hard to focus with everything at stake...

Now to wait until Neos breaks and Karel has to rewrite it from scratch ;P

That won't take long I believe

It won't be the same Neos we've come to love, long live Resonite!

Why would system break?

It already has a few times

A bunch of stuff was still maintained, repaired and helped by the old team.
Now that will stop...

You already notice that heavily as the messaging system is breaking down at the moment.

getting 500 errors with the account downloader

I'm sure everyone is backing up rn

Probly

😭

I have a backup of neos mentor folder

And my personal

Preservation is good :>

how backup work? Will people keep their stuff on Neos?

The backup has no impact on the data of neos, its just a local copy that you can't even import back into neos. Someone would need to create a program to do that

Hello everyone here

Hey... you heard the news, too?

Hire Me On New Neos Foundation Lettuce Make A Better Neos

Prime Is A Notorious Liar Ask Him About His Microsoft Tenure

So... I guess all cool projects are going to be deleted?

I dont think so unlsss karel pulls the server plug

Playerbase will move to Resonite, Karel will probably choose Unity to rewrite Neos (and if Unity keeps up what they're doing, he'll lose more money), but until the rewrite something will go wrong and they won't be able to legally update it because it's Froox's engine

https://t.me/ProjectX001

Huh, that looks neat

Correction: the playerbase that actually cares about the game like the devs did and not crypto