Admittedly, I am in this telegram chat for news and announcements and I personally have no interest in NCR

One issue that prevents NCR being attractive as a way for people to have themselves funded also is in order to be liquid as someone not already in the crypto space you need to
>get supporting wallet
>find a supporting swapper
>find an exchange that can pay out to you
>buy eth to fuel the tranactions

It' a process that is pretty roundabout for a lot of people

But also, most projects in Neos (done by community members) are not done with profit in mind, but community and for the sake of sharing creativity. Folks will often give help on projects with no expectation of reward other than being friendly.

They could. We used to do stuff like that. There were a few big maker competitions, though they were organized through other channels. If you are interested in those, I'd recommend looking into Neos Festa and Creator Jam.

The creators that won those got nice NCR prizes from the Community Developer Fund amongst other rewards. Theres still funds left in CDF. What projects do you have in mind? @boldparadoxal_eth I’m always interested in supporting good community projects.

I guess I'm just confused why projects are shared only on the Discord, but not here. Even if the goal isn't to do a project for profit, receiving even a small amount could help distrobute the funding around, making it look more active on the chain

the discord is just about one of the many clients to come

Organizationally discord is a lot neater organized to share such unless you have a telegramm with channels

Ingame transactions are more of a database with one external wallet id so there's no activity on chain unless withdrawing

The database just tracks how much a user has and associates a internal wallet Id per account allowing karel to do the transaction to move ncr from that user to a external deposit address when it was manual idk if it still is only Karel can comment on that

Glad to say that since the https://account.neos.com/ update withdrawals are fully automated. You can see them at the hot wallet that was created for the purpose here https://etherscan.io/address/0x884611bbc86d26270cFD26624bD756a749c25066#tokentxns My only job is to top it up when needed.

Web registration has been added https://account.neos.com/ui/register Next up better Patreon rewards tracking, Neos Cloud space buying and staking. After that we'll be doing Worlds and Contacts panels.

Why top it up? I think it should contain all the NCR, that are in in-game accounts together. Except you mean something like ETH for paying gas

I guess he means the automated wallet in charge of automatic transfers. We know all the stories about the millions lost by a simple software glitch because people assume software is perfect

Its not a good idea to give the automatic system access to the main wallet^^

But i am curious, how does the syncronization of the NCR on account.neos.com and of the NeosVR client now actually work? It seams there are still some issues?

A hot wallet, meaning one that is connected to the internet holding all NCR on Neos Account managed wallets sounds like an unnecessary risk. Better to hold most of it in a more secure air gapped cold wallet.

NeosVR client needs updating in terms of NCR interactions as it still has the old withdrawal UI. Please use https://account.neos.com/ for everything related to NCR in the meantime.

I see, but it seams like that it gets more difficult over time as more services (like storage) get payed from the ingame wallets while the syncronization isn't done?

Its probably something to think about as soon as possible.

Totally, it’s the top priority of our webapp team right now.

Just a note to the registration page karel your captcha is not conformed to the css of the container for the register section and hangs over the edge

It warms this old otter's heart to know that CSS is still a b*tch in 2023.

Will the UE client have interop with the unity client?

That is a good question. I wonder what the implications are if it has or doesn't have interop

If Not, it would make no sense to even have different clients in the first place. Everybody would use one client or worse it would split the community. Crowd drives people

And I don't see how there could be interop between them, except for NCR

Well, login, NCR wallet, contacts, that can be interop easily

Well at the moment its not. The NCR of Neos VR Unity client and the NCR on the website are completly disconnected from each other. This is horrible in my opinion

Yes it’s designed to be the same in all clients, the clients need to be up to date though which sadly the Unity one isn’t.

Thank you for reporting will be fixed 👍

Ahh, what's your plan to bring the unity client up to date?

To be more specific. Will both clients be able to connect / interact ,through standard methods, in game?

How will multiple client be updated at same time if different developments?

I mean, I don't understand why so many clients to begin with. Like, will the UE one be focused on first preson shooter stuff? That'd make more sense on why multiple flavors if each one played to a specific strength and all used NCR

My guess is that it is because the Team behind the Name Neos (Karel & Co) don't have access to the source code of the Unity Client

As such they need to develop a new Software, as shown with the UE client

So Unity version will be out of date soon because it can't be updated? What about extensions?

Depends if the Unreal Client meets Community Expectations

As to my knowledge that is simply not possible to maintain longterm. And whatever product will be created with the old source code will probably not be marketed as Neos

if the unity client won't be updated anymore, then it will be eventually outdated, but I wouldn't call it "soon", as it might take a lot of effort to make UE client compatible with the current unity client

That might be the understatement of the year. Feature parity might take many, many years. Compatibility is, in my eyes at least, impossible

I don't see what is impossible here. It might take a lot of effort, but rewriting components and logix, what is most important, is definitely possible.

One engine is c++ and the other is c# and if they chose blueprints they are more restricted for customiseability

As you are a wizard, that might be entirely possible. I could not do that, not even together with my team and i work and teach since about 14 years as a software developer. If you want a good estimate of whats possible, we might want to ask the modders of neos, but it is my personal opinion that it is not viable.

I mean, never say never. Throw enough manpower at a problem and it might go away. But it doesn't look like Neos has many hundret programmers at the moment that would made me think different.

Then theirs the UGC rules of unreal... which basically shoot neos as it is in the leg or let's say blowing it entirely off. Also all content must be moderated down to the smallest detail due to UGC means the game will get rated mature so there goes neos pegi 13 rating

Unreal doesn't like it when you offer real-time editing tools that provide systems similar to the engine running it

Creating a detailed documentation of all components and all logix nodes (using wiki and in-game), and then recreating their behavior is possible if given enough resources, and it surely doesn't require hundreds of people. Most of these are trivial, like add or subtract 2 numbers together.

I wouldn't call that hard but the world model running that logix processing and the spaghetti it is and all the code for generative uix to make nodes easy plug and play is a mess

Source : I maintain and run neosplus

NeosPlus is an amazing piece of software in itself. How long did you work on that so far?

How long has the developer stoppage been XD

Our first release when we made it public and not a small community was 2022.08.16

... right. So about 2 years. In your personal opinion. If Neos would go offline and i would give you the money to work every day on that (and assuming you would be ok with that) how long would it take you to replicate anything that has gone offline?

i stand corrected, one year

Uhh including the asset variation servers, the relay and all that I can't even give a estimate since I don't know if current is doccumented

Avs could be done quick and relay inventory and database would be much more of a pain

I take a guess and say you have most of the documentation in existance already, that Karel would have access to too

Also neosplus isn't just me it's a amazing group effort over time over 15 programmers

So with what you have access to, any guesses?

I havnt read most the code nor documented it but as what I have access to and didn't have legal repercussions maybe 2year ?

If I had a team

To basically rewire and sort out and reprogram parts and bits

For featur parity or compatibelity?

Oh christ

For a unreal variant

Yeah no... I wouldn't attempt that ,a godot version tho would be pretty simple

So, two years with a dedicated team for feature parity?

Well u gotta consider one engine is c# and one is c++

Y would have to rewrite everything to be exact in another lang

Yea, well, thats kind of the difference between feature parity and compatibelity, right? ;)

First one is just "can do the same stuff" while the other is "my magic sword with the logiX works and looks the same in both clients"

All ima say is the scope of this project is huge

Like the cost to performance to ROI and management is just hmm

Never look the same due to rendering and methods of shaders

Oh wouldn't that cause more metadata in a 7zbson due to shader types for all clients and namespaces for types

Yeah I don't wanna think about it

same thing if there ever will be another new client ..

I want to add this to the discussion as it doesn't seem to be brought up yet. Yes, there are features that could be implemented in a different engine rather triviality, and Neos uses source generation to produce a lot of these Logix nodes automatically, for instance.

However, from a developer standpoint one thing that is far from trivial to implement are Neos's plugins - OVR lipsync, Input, things built for and intended the Unity engine. While there are the Unreal Engine counterparts here and there, I'm afraid that isn't the case for every single one. RNNoise? Obtaining feature parody would be far from a straightforward task, most practically these would have to be implemented in house

Again, I believe anything is possible with the right amount of elbow grease. Source: I helped work on a Godot version of Neos

I'm actually kind of shocked Godot wasn't made the more primary engine when revealed. I just did a quick search on it with it being open source, it feels more in spirit of what NCR wants to be according to the whitepaper

Then theirs the miracle to get freeimage to compile in the first place XD

Pain

Well, considering that Karel wants multiple clients, it might be a good question to his team. Having a universal API and documentation to develop the Clients in question and the limits of compatibelity to each other

I am sure a Godot version of Neos would be exactly in the spirit of things

Godot has really only recently become viable on the VR side of things. Keep in mind the timeline of Neos' development.

Though it would be a much better engine to base a new implementation on today IMO. Unreal having as many massive question marks in its licencing terms as it does.

Honestly getting the future plans outlined (even with forgiving or no dates) would help allot -
Especially on the technical side, allot of the neos community just assumes this isn't viable and a scam.

I mean, we've seen (what i thought was) frooxengine running in an unreal client, but without more technical proof allot of people have assumed it's faked to hype up NCR
I'm pretty sure you all want to keep quiet since you don't trust your own community, but without that transparency/communication the PR continues to get shittier.

I agree. It would be in the interest of folks who are interested in NCR to understand what the roadmap looks like moving forward.

You know, even different versions of the frooxengine client weren't interoperable properly. So why would a new client even be compatible?

The moment the UE client would surpass the other in features, it wouldn't be interoperable any more. Even NeosPlus cannot connect with the original client

well we did have connector patching for the version so it could

but we found out quikcly that was dangerous

Message from Linka Industries has been deleted because it contains swear words (???)

damn

bot got updated

aight lemme not be british

I have to agree. When I saw the trailer, I rushed into here excited to see a real project so I can finally get some funds for my site idea. But now that I've seen the Discord, I am rather confused on what to expect

Honestly, it wasn't a good idea to showcase that UE client from a business perspective in my opinion. Without any information, there was still hope that something would actually happen and continue, that perhaps a modding group started to build on the neos framework or the stalemate of code vs name would end. But yea, we know now how that ended and it doesn't look like the two groups got a copy of the project each to continue on their own way, but instead more that one got the code and the other just the name. Its a bit like microsoft would have had 2 owners and one got the name and the other windows source code.

You don't have to be a mastermind to know what would be more successful and how easy it would be to add one or the other.

You forget about the community

The community. I have no hard data for that. If you have an opinion who got more support, i am listening?

Actually i lied, i do have pretty accurate data about that, but i can't share it here for multiple reasons. So yes, i want to hear your opinion if you want to share.

Wrong chat xD

How important even is the community for the success/progress of NCR though?

I guess we'll see

Thank you so much for fixing the account registration on the website Karel 💜🙏💜
The MetaMovie and my own Neos project quantumbar.ai are both finalists for this year’s VR Awards and a seamless onboarding will help us a lot during the judging period 💜🏆😎

Congrats! That sounds awesome!

Can we tip NCR at the bar?

Not yet, but I hope that we can implement this soon 💜💸😎