But I don't even get to hold the crypto

So I get an NFT of the crypto I could have?

Managed wallets are a very common thing in the crypto world.

We had to choose to do it either on the blockchain or with managed wallets and chose those as its easier for new users.

I know what's staking, but what's the other side of the coin? What's the catch?

It's good for Neos when people hold NCR and it good for Neos when they play Neos. Win win.

For the record Karel, I don't really care either way. I just want clarification.

Will the Coopers planet world with crypto integration come out with the unreal client used to preview it, or is that probably gonna be released at a later date?
If the unreal client is bundled with it, then we've got a really nice graphix update coming our way.

Yes you could say there is a secondary P2E component, but presenting the whole process and update as P2E is not fair.

Okay, this is one reason then. Staking gets NCR into managed wallets. What's the benefit for Neos to have NCR in managed wallets and why is that worth enough to pay for this?

so it's all the benefits of crypto, at the cost of not actually owning any crypto at all, and if Neos gets hacked or something it's gone.

nice

Thank you

So you have crypto without having direct access to the blockchain, and thus no control over your own currency

genius

Gray...

I feel guys like you are trolling at this point no matter how many question we answer.

Dude you literally said a few mins ago "Staking isn't P2E even remotely"

Now you say it IS P2E

As I wrote earlier you have to choose either managed wallets staking or blockchain not both. The thinking is managed is where most people has NCR and is easier. And if Neos Cloud gets hacked that would be a bad situation no matter where staking takes place.

Staking certainly isn't P2E

It isn't trolling from me, it's just clarification.

Feel free to ignore it, if you think that it is trolling. I know it is hard to do.

"you could say there is a secondary P2E component"

You don't allow pictures so I can't send you screenshots of your own messages

Staking usually doesn't have this component that is very unique to us as far as I know.

Links are allowed afaik. And those embeds show pictures

But there IS a P2E component. If people are allergic to peanuts, and your dish only has a little peanut extract, the answer to "is this made with peanuts" needs to be a very clear yes. This is less life threatening but I think the analogy holds.

Staking is the process of holding something and getting rewarded for holding.

So a crypto savings account

How is playing to earn better staking rewards not play to earn?

Checking my understanding of this, the current steam neos is basically one of the clients that have chosen to directly interface with inventory using API endpoints. Other clients may go the same path, and some might just use a webview to this new official website?
That makes more sense, since everything UI in Neos prior has been built on components and a datamodel, instead of through any other medium (like a webview.)

Our staking is bit unusual that it also hav a mild gamification with a variable rate.

An ncr savings account with p2e based compound interest

exactly

Because playing alone is not enough to earn on one hand and if you are not playing you can still be earning.

No? At least that isn't the point of staking. Staking looks very much like that, but that isn't the reason behind it

Not everything with an appreciation is a saving account, there are bonds and term deposits which I think are closer analog to staking

Is the system you plan to use basically this? https://playtoearndiary.com/faqs-what-is-play-to-earn-staking-in-crypto/

However it would be best to call it staking if it's staking 😊

semantics

What makes it staking then?

I wish I knew that word better. I think of vampires and tents and gambling

That article is actually a good one to explain the difference, for example Ethereum has staking - it's not a game and there is no playing

I get the staking of Ethereum, there is a reason for that and it's part of the PoS system.
But what is the reason for staking NCR and how does that help Neos?

Shiba Eternity is P2E a game.

automated deposits and withdrawals nice

It helps Neos Credits price because to stake you have to hold them. Which helps to finance development. Also it can help attract new players and do something for existing ones.

How does the price help finance? And how does scarcity attract new players?

how does stock help finance?

karel's gonna answer..

Okay, staking would mean, people discover the in game wallet. Make them discover the P2E part and join the P2E client part of Neos to try earn something

If we have more funds we can give more funds to developers. Scarcity helps the price - if those NCR are in your Neos Account wallet the whole month they have not been sold which helps the price. Having staking gives users a nice feeling that they get something each month and being on lists of projects with staking helps as well and makes it easier for NCR to be listed on more exchanges.

When will cooper's planet (staking) open?

Have you checked market volume recently?

Karel You can keep polishing and trying to reword every thing to Spin things a in a more favorable light its P2E regardless of how u try to reword it you are Playing a game and earning something so move on to the more important part of showing how the stake is going to be valued and other areas as it seems like its all comming out of thin air

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922169136874938388/1140808973331738634/image.png

If you are just playing and not holding NCR it doesn't work sorry.

A few more orders of magnitude and we are good. A lot of work has to happen though to get there.

Sorry, I don't usually read charts. I mean volume jumped from $580 to like $18,000 on one exchange. That wasn't the value I was looking for

Volume certainly increased but we have to do much more to get to a healthy state of things. Many steps between here and there.

So it's not just opt-in but a buy-in p2e-based-interest crypto savings system

That would be a more accurate description 😊

The nice thing is that our long terms supporters already have Neos Credits and if some people buy them to stake them that's a double win.

You know they will sell them in the future?

Some have sold already, some will sell in the future some will buy more it's a market

The sell to buy ratio determines the price

And what influences the sell to buy ratio?

Staking certainly improves the reatio, the important moment will be when staking ends.

We have to make sure there are plenty other reasons to hold at that point by imrpoving Neos, having Neos Store and Neos Jobs.

Many things, mostly it being useful for something like buying things or staking.

I was thinking that the utility of the token would affect the sell to buy ratio positively

Can we get confirmation that a cloud compatible engine is being built right now?
We're just assuming it off of that video's Neos-esque hand movement. I just want it simply stated, people don't take implicit news easily.

Exactly, buying things or services or even staking is the utility

Staking isn't really a utility, as you just get NCR for holding NCR. It's like looping back onto itself

Today's update was about the new UI, transformation of Solirax into separate parts like Neos Metaverse Foundation helping break the developer deadlock, details on upcoming staking and teasing Cooper's Planet

We used a WIP Unreal build to shoot parts of the video, it's a good example of why it will be great to have multiple clients but not the core message of the update.

You moving content away from cloud to UE-Only?

No the idea is to let multiple clients by multiple developers access Neos Cloud. Preferably open source ones.

Nothing is being moved away, we are simple adding more options. Opening up for more possibilities. Unreal is just one of them.🙂

Any way to open-source the current account panel?

Have your lawyers check the UE EULA before making such a decision

We'll be certainly sharing the source file for the UI graphics so developers or even users can implement it if they choose so

We're familiar with UE EULA

I don't see that here

BUT- the unreal video is just an example where a behind the scenes new "NeosEngine" is hosting a player, and the rendering/input/etc is just outsourced to unreal, right?
It isn't just an unreal project disconnected from neos made to look like neos is what i'm getting at. If it properly communicates with neos cloud w/out being dependent on unreal, that's big news.

Why not open-source the whole thing?
From the looks of it, it looks like a react native frontend which is pretty easy to share on GitHub

It would also give a reference implementation to devs given I don't see any official dev documentation being linked on the frontpage

Well, okay, I am not familiar with the UE EULA. Though there are two things that catched my eye while skimming over it.
1. No FOSS. You cannot create software in UE that is open source
2. Content is UE-Only. Whatever is created with UE stays in UE
(Disclaimer: IANAL)

So, this is what confuses me then. Mentioning UE, talking about Neos Cloud for content and wanting to go open source. Those things don't seem to mix or I haven't seen, how those could work together

Devs will be sharing what they can when it's done under appropriate licenses. Now it's very much work in progress.

It very much looks to me like what I think you think

UE licensing is certainly complicated and not everything we'd like to do can be done. However a lot of things can be done and as I said earlier not every client has to do everything.

Why not start it as open to begin with? It would build trust with the community and allow for more feedback

What language is the newer neos client backend codebase in? If it's c++ that's kindof cool, quite different though
I guess the C# modders in the community are going to end up making their mods into different (or combined) clients

This sounds like second life viewers, maybe we'll have firestorm viewer for Neos

Because our kind community would harass them

It's always nice seeing dev notes and comments.

Some, not all. I’m certainly not going out my way to harass anyone.

how can i upgrade my strdust rank?

Would be nice to have some kind of log that is updated maybe weekly to see what is actually being worked on instead of having a small announcement every now and then or just some words thrown in a chat.
Like a dev blog or something.

Stardust ranks will be updated automatically based on the amount of collected Stardust in Cooper’s Planet.

We will be definitelly sharing more details with the next update. Thank you for your question😊️️️️️️

Maintaining a log is a nice idea although it does add extra time and effort. We will however do our best to have more regular updates and more transparency overall. Today was just one first but significant step after a very long time and I think it’s a lot to digest for many people for now. 🙂

Personally I am grateful for all the responses that are on more positive end but also appreciate these that are more critical. Especially people who took time to point at some glitches that we can fix. Thank you.🙏

It might not be all that all of you have dreamed of or expected from this update, but I really appreciate the overal constructive discussion and all your questions. I hope in the upcoming days we can clear any confusions and that with all future updates, we can keep moving into better space. 🚀

Pretty excited about the neos foundation as a codebase, future's bright if it's as I've detailed in my previous messages (new engine independent of frontend engine)

As long as the project moves forward and the team is passionate about the success of the platform, we're happy

@malooniac just based ui question. What means TNCR? It means Testnet NCR? (I can't find under whitepaper and in Telegram).

Hello😊 I think you are referring to the second Unreal video that Karel has shared?😊
TNCR = Test NCR. It was just in progress footage. No need to be too concerned about it. But kudos on spotting it!👀

I reffered from second Unreal Video and under Website ( https://account.neos.com ).
Under Website, also show TNCR in Neos Credits.
Status: Registered
Neos Credits: **** NCR / 0 TNCR

TNCR= Test NCR Right. Thanks!

I look forward to being able to try out the Unreal products! I'm really tempted to ask a lot of questions, but I don't want your answers to slow down the development and the establishment of the Foundation, so I just read answer from other users question, and mainly research from answers.

Does the FZCO abbreviation on the end of "Neos Metaverse"(on the whitepaper) stand for anything?

Ahh its a type of company in the United Arab Emirates, a Free Zone Company

I see! Another little glitch to fix then, thank you so much for picking up on it! 🙏 And please do ask away anything you like. I hope myself, Karel or anyone from the community here can answer in a friendly and polite manner🙂️️️️ And thank you so much for your supportive words!

Could this be addressed? Is Neos moving to be incorporated under the UAE? Like, understandably having as large of an LGBTQIA+ community as neos does this sort of association is a major red flag and I'd really like to understand the implications.

Karel actually explained this to me, hes wanting to dissolve solirax slowly in favor of Neos Foundation.

You can find the message by searching "dissolve"

so essentially yeah there wont be anywhere else for neos to be under

The UAE are one of the most crypto friendly jurisdictions globally so having a legal entity there is very useful from that point of view. It’s much harder for an organization to do crypto than a natural person. We are of course aware of the limitations of the jurisdiction and would not argue for it to be the only legal entity.

I guess this gets Ignored again.

https://t.me/c/1314262393/49117

I'm a bit curious about the "Cooper's Planet" idea given it's almost complete and total departure from what Neos has aimed for in the past. Releasing official worlds in the past have been mostly inspired by impressive and clean implementation of something that is mostly focused on education and impressive technical demonstration. It's quite strange to see a pretty average level game world be announced in this way. Because it definitely seems like a barebones frontend world with some fancy api calls.

It also seems as though Cooper's world is using features that may not necessarily be available to other creators on the platform, how will this demo compare to what content creators on the platform have access to? Will games built by others in Neos be able to increase your level, affect your balance, etc.? If so, how are you ensuring that a world created in the future won't be able to just drain your wallet through api abuse?

I think there I also have concern about the security of this. It's quite easy to log into Neos using a third party client when you know what api calls to hit. Is there any effort to ensure someone doesn't immediately mine the release for api endpoints and claim all the available stakeable tokens?

How would you be able to claim all availalbe stakeable tokens? The staking seems to only allow for up to 20% p.a.
The remaining NCR that are up for staking are at most 10,000,000. To claim all of them within a year, you'd have to stake 50,000,000 NCR. There aren't even that many on the market

It could probably be abused to manipulate the staking % level

How many minted NCR are in the Solirax company's wallet?

I think you just need to look at the top 10 wallets for that

I'm onto it

The last time I checked it was something around 20%?

Could it be this top address art ~25% 0x7CCBac6D333838608be0c40E124381016F4c81Fc

Also, as someone who's spent quite a bit of money on Neos and NCR, and even more on VR hardware, I'm a bit concerned about the business value of the current direction. I've worked in software for over a decade now and typically the cost to production value of switching core frameworks is so high that it will kill projects. Switching to Unreal Engine is definitely looking like a similar situation to what I've seen in the past.

What is the product value and business worth in switching to a more restrictive platform for Neos? I feel that any potential investors with experience will see this as a major red flag, given the common history of projects that do this.

Switching core frameworks is almost always a money sink and causes significant delay in features and improvements... and Neos desperately needs improvement.

Could you please provide an understanding of how the business value of these changes would stack up to work on improving the performance of Logix, increasing the platform (aka: deployment to more devices), making the game more accessible to more people with varying capabilities of hardware, etc.? Because I am aware that Unreal Engine tends to add an extreme level of complexity in these aspects and I'm worried it will cause significant delay in improvements to the platform.

Ultimately, the project is lacking in many aspects given it's age and time to mature. Many things need actual improvement beyond a UI refresh (which typically offers the lowest direct value for the operation of a project of this size)

I guess there are about 30M NCR available to hold for staking. With a 4%-20% p.a. that'd mint 1.2M - 6M NCR at most a year. Given that staking would actually cause minting of the remaining 9.3M NCR

This is extremely upsetting to me, personally. I do not want my work to go toward propping up a government that wants me wiped from the face of the earth. I suppose I understand that there are adventitious tax structures there but it is hard to look past the harm the UAE does.

At present, Solirax wallets possess >70% of the total NCR supply. Staking rewards pool: 15%. Market liquidity: 15%, with ~10% active. Consequently, only ~5 million NCR is in circulation. I reckon depleting the Staking pool for rewards would take no less than 5 years.

the numbers somehow don't match up

Where did you get those numbers? Which walltes are Solirax wallets and did you consider that an amount of these wallets represent in-game NCR?

"yes but money" 🏳️‍🌈

https://web.archive.org/web/20220202002927/https://neos.com/

according to the website before it was replaced with one that doesn't show the minting progress for some reason, there were approximately 9.5 million NCR remaining to be minted.

This indicates that all the other NCR is in the market, being held by users, etc.

A lot of NCR was bought back as part of the buyback programme. There is only a small amount of NCR in circulation (in the market)

❓When does staking start?

Looking forward to using the Neos Unreal client. Looks epic!

Interesting, I actually somehow managed to not hear about the buyback lol. So... they minted ~80.9% of the tokens and then bought them back so that they could redistribute them as staking?

Nope, it's like NCR is held by the company as an asset

so they didn't buy back NCR?

I didn't say that

So, then. They minted it, bought it back, and are going to redistribute it through staking then?

We are looping back to the beginning. I don't know, but I don't think so

Otherwise they'd have to shit more out or limit the staking to that last ~20% which is just silly

that's fair. I'm just confused what the point even is if it's completely useless in-platform anyway

Minting was done by either people on the platform, or from a portion of the patreon income. I don't think Karel themselves really minted much if any. But he did do buybacks, and bought A LOT of it.

There's like 9.3M NCR left for minting, which I guess will be minted through the staking process. Whatever NCR had been bought back looks like company assets

ohhh, I see what you're saying now.

I’m glad there’s more clarity around Neos and NCR again. Looks like quite a few whales are accumulating NCR now.

We can finally move together again towards a common goal. Excited for the future of Neos

These 9.3 million NCR have been distributed as follows: 7.6 million NCR (Staking rewards pool) + 2 million NCR community fund. Thus, the ICO process has concluded.

Great vision in the updated white paper, I’ll be staking my NCR as soon as it’s live. Love the idea of the Neos Foundation, mild gamification and an open ecosystem. Well done team!

NCR has completed ICO + has Staking = making it easier for listing on centralized exchanges. This facilitates liquidity for NCR to pay out Staking rewards. Being listed on certain CEXs can boost NCR's value, and with a substantial amount of NCR staked, it will enhance NCR's stability and maintain price equilibrium.

Karel has ingeniously and coolly devised the NCR Staking plan. The percentage tiers of Staking are fantastic, benefiting NCR holders and creators alike. It serves as an incentive for many to explore in-game features within Neos.

Took a day for some reason, but the big crypto fans have crawled out of the woodwork to praise the new plan

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/572861485789872160/1141054017028493493/20230815_130019.jpg

That's adorable

Karel did you just ban zodie?

Did even mentioning or hinting at triangle shaped business just get a user banned fr tho

That's extremely aggressive

Merith also got banned earlier

And Gareth

Would be better to say "no because x" not GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT LEAVE NOW SECURITY which is how an instant ban comes across

No appeal, evidence deleted, just deleted. It's basically unacceptable administrative behavior.

It takes the moderate out of moderation

No FUD and trolling here please

It was just commentary and business comparison

If you disagree, just disagree

Nothing creates uncertainty or fear quite like immediate instant unchallengeable bans that can't be appealed or reasoned against :/

Business comparison 🤣 youre quite the joker

This.

It was LITERALLY a business comparison. Comparing you to something you don't like.

Assuming I understood what they meant by triangles

Yea doing that is 100% FUD

I agree that this administration style will lead to a yes-man mentality that ultimatly will kill this project, no mather how well intended. You need the community and expecially creators behind you and they are often the difficult ones. The ones you currently continue to locking out. You really should choose administrators you trust.

Doesnt get more clear than that

Scary stuff, man. I'm not all about that life. If you aren't what they're accusing you of being, it's a lot more convincing if you say no I'm not than silently shutting them up.

Are we allowed to give criticism in this telegram?

Asking for a friend

Constructive criticism yes, lies and fud no

^

There was no lie involved at all. The message said "weird how y, sounds similar to x" with x being something you disagree with. They were just sharing how things look to them. Their perception itself was all they shared, and it led to an instant ban. Do you see how that looks bad?

"Huh that ash kinda looks like snow" should not get me instantly banned from an ash appreciation chat.

So what's going on here?

Much like with Gareth, I think the ban should be reversed. It was unwarranted, unfair, and again just makes you look worse in the eyes of your community here. A warning, once again, would have been preferable. Even better would have been a denial, or argument. Basically anything but passively silencing them

Bans and disagreement on bans.

Ah yes. Normal.

As a comedic explanation, as well as an explanation that errs on the side of not getting MYSELF banned, someone was instabanned for bringing up triangles.

Yes, but shouldn't be. Thats why its good that people speak out about that. Bans are not only bad for the community and reducing the amount of people that actually care, it also causes a lot of insecurity and obviously people not speaking the truth anymore. As a result you get a Yes-Man-Bubble that kills projects. Something that the people that care still try to prevent.

This Telegram seems like a yes man bubble to you? 🤣 All I see is hate towards crypto that funds Neos

No, it WILL be

If you just remove dissent it will become an echo chamber.

We’ve beed banning trolls and fudsters for like two years when exactly will that happen?

you've been banning community members with concerns

Yes comparing Neos to x which is a higly illegal business and the opposite of what we are doing is pretty bad 😄

what

Say then that it's the opposite of what you're doing. Assure them! Don't ban them

If you want to avoid "FUD" then remove the "U" yourself by being more transparent and more clear rather than using bans and empty words as a communication method

As an unrelated example. "I'm worried that you're evil" should be responded to with something like "I'm sorry you got that impression here's why I'm not evil". Instead what you've done is go "SILENCE!!!!" and exiled them

Well, depending on the time of day its hard to find people that know neos is a vr software. Not saying it something in general, but you do losing a lot of creators, expecially since the last weeks you agressivly banning, and even deleting the messages that caused those banns. I really, really think you should choose impartial administrators of YOUR own choise that can be impartial with this.

Trolls are trolls there is no use discussing with someone who writes such nonsense

For the record, the "SILENCE!!!!" part of this is not an exaggeration. Physically erasing what someone says and then removing them from your presence is at the very least a capital silence with four exclamation points

What are you classifying as a "troll" exactly?

You assume they were trolling. What if they were confused? Concerned? What if you could have changed their mind?

Does everyone here just write nonsense in your opinion? Surely at some point after hearing the community concerns over and over you'd think maybe there's something wrong?

Or, let's say they were trolling. What if someone more silent felt the same way? What if they still do, but now they haven't been given a counter argument?

Yes a lot of people write complete nonsense in here

About crypto I assume?

651 members, plenty of room for silent people who agree and are worried

Does “I think crypto is stupid and I want nothing to do with it in my VR social game” count as a troll? Or just a valid criticism/concern/complaint?

Of course

Oh yeah man definitely trolling.

For transparency: Someone implied very vaguely that crypto reminds them of a shady business practice.

Definitely not the first time I've seen it. I've been checking the tweet.

It was basically "crypto kinda sus because x 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔"

I see.

They sent the message, it was hardly reacted to, and in 15 minutes it was erased silently by Karel and the user banned.

Extremely uncool

Were they also banned from the platform?

There wasn't time to ask for their username, they were banned too fast

No acknowledgement Karel ? Only ban?

Concerning treatment of investor

I wish for clarification on changes and business decisions, as well as others

Oh hey that question was from the user who's now banned

How are new decisions decided?

I'm one of those silent users. I don't think I've said anything in this telegram

We are not switching to Unreal that is of course nonsense who told you that?

YOU BANNED THAT USER

KAREL PLEASE

Welcome. Please tell us what you think as watching party.

Didn't you say an Unreal client was in the works?

Or am I just seeing things

Likely the latter tbh no sleep here

Yes I said that two things can be true at once

I think it's in addition

Thank you

We want to have many compatible clients and have development independent of Neos Tounfation to solve the problems Neos has because devs stopped working

I’ve also seen a lot of nonsense in here that I fired them, not true at all the stopped sending invoices even thou I told them to continue

Do you have a new team to build an unreal engine client?

I’m trying to do constructive steps to solve the situation and secure funding

Yes amongst other things

My big question is why multiple clients? You will have to do everything twice basically.

Not only that, but the incompatibilities..

We wouldnt have to if the initial one is open source

As we agreed years ago

Can we know who they are? When can we meet them? I'd like to know their thoughts and ideas

Karel @malooniac People cannot log into Wiki any more

The dev doesn’t want to open source it and is also not willing to develop it so developing it again is pretty much the only option

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you don't have the source?

No I trusted the dev to be a good guy didn’t expect a betrayal like this

Multiple clients sounds nice, but really it comes down to this "asteroids" (the gamification) that basicly causes staking to be more insecure for the single person. Because rationally there will be people that invest efford, time and resources into getting a high rank and selling that state to others sub-stakers so that they get more and the sub stakers.

I have seen exactly this happening in many gamifications and even crypto projects.

More then that, i am worries that obviously the only client that will have this asteroids will be the Unreal client. If its not, people will create clients with the single purpose of mining this asteroids automaticly. Hell i might even do that myself to play the system (obviously i would not tell anyone about that)

attempt to login to wiki is met with:

Oops! An Error Occurred
The server returned a "404 Not Found".
Something is broken. Please let us know what you were doing when this error occurred. We will fix it as soon as possible. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

the "https://account.neosvr.com/oauth2/authorize" endpoint is missing

You are assuming a lot of things here please wait for the next update where we explain how it works exactly, these things have of course been considered.

Even daikatana had less chaos during development; not sure how you're gonna get the trust of a single investor with a whitepaper, a 50s video and no transparency at all

I know it will be fixed soon.

Certainly not if a bunch of trolls are writing nonsense in here

Karel ^

No they don’t need this harassement in their lives

Heads up that the new site broke metamovie signups (as per Jason Moore, the director)

Dev's are usually revered by the community. You get the brunt as CEO obviously now and there would be some critics to devs if things don't work as expected, but it is worth that at least some of the devs communicate with the community from time to time. If you don't want them in a public chat with people, consider a 1 hour weekly meething with the devs and not all of them have to be there. One or two would be enough.

Oauth will be fixed thats the same as Wiki

This whole thing just... makes me confused

We have tried to reach devs over and over again they don’t want to have a sensible discussion that is the point. They just want to Zuckerberg a co-founder.

Oh yeah the wikis authentication needs some fixing too
It opens a new window for authentication, then doesnt return the data to the original window, but instead continues inside the window opened for authentication. sometimes it also just immediately logs you out if you navigate anywhere or drops you onto home instead of the correct article

I think they meant the new devs. Would be cool to talk to them.

I meant your developer team actually. To communicate with the community. I am sorry if i was imprecise.

Hello, I have not been contacted by Karel.

Hello ProbablePrime, how are you?

Push me out so they can do whatever. So ok now the clients is independent, they can do whatever and hopefully continue development.

Im ok, wish the heat warning wasn't in effect here again but I'll manage

We have talked multiple times and all you did was repeating nonsense about lawyers and how this is a divorce an I should pay you.

Its also really hot here to actually, hope you well.

I have never asked for pay

Can we please continue development of NeosVR is your tantrum over now?

If you want my opinion, I think one thing that would help forward Neos's goals is to consider subsequent means of communication.

If we do want to combat misinformation, whatever it may be, the best way to combat that is to utilize the new website, the twitter, etc. We're not going to accomplish anything just in this telegram, we need to reach out.

I know a considerable portion of the community feels alienated. Like anything in life, good communication is key to success, and we have the tools to take the U out of FUD.

I suggest that we compile a list of FAQs about the recent update and post them online, and pin them to this chat. Otherwise we're just going around in circles.

I want the project to move forward. And I'm willing to help accomplish this

Has this been brought up before? I'm out of the loop when it comes to this chat

we need a document that outlines what exactly is planned with multiple clients and open sourcing

I've had to extrapolate info on this topic, and unless these changes are done in very specific ways, they will be redundant and a waste of time.

If this company is remaking the frooxengine codebase, with substitutable / swappable links to an engine, then multiple clients make complete sense. With this idea you could have an "easy" client for beginners, an advanced one for creators, or more custom clients for specialized neos usage.

if it isnt bluntly specified in an easy to understand announcement, people are going to assume the company is wasting time switching to a new engine, and think that it's all pointless

there's real and exciting stuff going on here, but to the naked eye it looks bland, pointless, and wastefull

I am not in a tantrum. I appreciate the civil conversation Karel though. Thank you.

Ok so why there has been no development of NeosVR for two years? Why are you holding Neos users hostage

Yes, Roadmap please

Where we are and where we go

Hi kindly check my message for possible partnership with our OKX top 5 exchanges at coinmarketcap

NeosVR CEO

I’m not NeosVR CEO

You didn't name which of the exchanges

Bill Gates the CEO of Windows

I presume okx is the name of their exchange

That is an independent client, will check exchange listing offers when staking update is out

Is the Unreal Engine client planned to have editing functionality or just Viewing capabiility?

If it's any reassurance, I will be happy to compile a message summarizing these

Well, I read "OKX top 5 exchanges" so it seems OKX has a top 5 exchanges list

Ahh yeah, it's ok

Why would you expect a good product from a developer/employee being told to create something that they do not inherently agree or like working with? More so, is it not their right to simply cease working if it is of no benefit to them? Whether your ideas of how to transact and exchange in Neos is good or bad, you seem like you want to force people to do things they simply don't want. Why not hire new devs if the existing ones aren't interested? Or simply take the idea to a different product altogether?

From the perspective of a Neos user, it seems like the ideas being pushed are being pushed against both customers and employees. I'm confused on why that seems like a good idea, I guess. It's like a car company trying to produce a car with square wheels and being confused on why the workers at the manufacturing plant refuse to man the assembly line.

Is this a recent change or have I just been out of the loop somehow?

Neos VR is a software, Solirax is the company

Theres also Neos Foundation now

Oh, duh, I'm dumb.

I'm assuming you are talking about the Web3 bloat on a sandbox platform

I'm talking about whatever reason "there has been no development of Neos in 2 years." If you think there are other reasons you want to attribute to that beyond "web3 bloat on a sandbox platform," by all means. I'm not the people who aren't developing. I'm just someone who's been on an undeveloped platform for the last 2 years.

I remember talk about a modular UI for neos before the hiatus where the currency stuff could be removed, yet the new UI has dropped customization

All right. This will be the final part of my shtick before I go back to observing.

Karel Why should I play Neos? In your own words, why is it worthwhile?

The current community has been shaped trough multiple methods to consist of people who hate on crypto and mostly are furries. That is not very inclusive and an unfortunate fact, however I see Neos as a place for everyone. Every person is a potential Neos user.
Devs have made it incredibly hard for me to secure funding. My choice was bankrupcy or crypto and I think I made the better choice.
As for open sourcing that is something that we agreed on and should be done. The benefits are major and pretty clear. Almost no downsides.

It also appears to be missing basic social features like muting the mic. Is it a social platform or a web3 wallet?

It has a muting option.

Muting your mic totally is a feature. There's a button in your dash menu and on desktop you can just press M to mute and unmute.

The new UI? It wasn't shown in their promotional video

Shaped? how so?

Neos is great because you can create stuff directly in it in multiplayer which results in a good creative experience which results in conetent which results in good non creative experiences as well.

IIRC while muted you can use V to use hold to speak also

Yeah by making the UI so complicated for no reason that you have to talk to furries, that makes the community over time almost exclusively furries as it feels like thei clubhouse to non furries

Most of the existing UI is modular with facets already, you can make, edit remove any of them. If you use steam. you can just remove the facet if you don't want to see the tokens not available thing. This 'new' UI that appears in the trailer karel posted is some work in progress but doesn't appear like it would support facets as is.

Also hating on crypto makes everyone who like it leave

The crypto part of this is kind of definitively not true, There's a very decent portion of Neos who believe in Crypto, and think it has it's use-cases, But specifically think that NCR could have been handled dramatically better. Maybe on your second try, it'll be better, but know there are people who believe in Crypto, it's just always the bad side of things that pokes out the most.

Okay, but how is this any different from Minecraft? Roblox? Gmod? I'm genuinely curious, like what I'm trying to ask is in your eyes, what makes Neos special

The UI is so complicated because it's a complete engine with a social aspect inside it. People have just come around to learning it and adapting to it to help others, furry or not.

Yes if someone says something positive about crypto the get piled on by about 5 haters what a great place to be

When crypto and an "economy" is forced into people when it would be easier and cheaper to just use booth to buy assets I can see why

No the UI is complicated because its not done by a professional who understands how it’s done. The default Ui could be really simple and welsoming to new people with advanced features being hidden for later when the user is more familiar.

There are a lot of Furries who like Crypto, and a lot who dont.

Go figure though that a very high percentage of people Who Code, and perform other technical field positions are apart of the Furry experience.

Beyond just the development team at Neos, the community itself has helped shape Neos into what its become, and Furries have a lot to do with this.

Would you not say that they've contributed to Neos's success?

and if people dislike something enough that people who like it leave, would you try to erase the very thing that Made Neos successful to gain in clientele that would not make it as inclusive as been stated before?

...I have regular healthy conversations about crypto in Neos, with people who often say they don't know how crypto works or say they don't care for it. I've explained the benefits of a good crypto system that's well managed to users in Neos, and alot of them have sat and listened to me, and said i've made good points. That's not getting piled on by haters, that's people being curious about stuff that could be good, if handled well.

Now its overly complicated on purpose so people can feel better explaining it to beginners and drive out those who are not like them

Is there a reason why somehow you cant talk to the non furries for this?

Im confused why it somehow requires furries as a group for a ui style

It can be designed differently but I dont believe what your saying is the case

Most people dont want to talk to furries, I dont mind

WTF DOES FURRIES HAVE TO DO WITH NEOS
yes, a large portion of the userbase are furry. That means nothing in this debate.
This shouldn't be something mentioned in any capacity (Except edge cases.)

Wouldn't the first thing people see being a wallet scare people away?

Welcome to this social platform. Please drink verification can to continue

Have you ever seen the UI for Unity? It's pretty comfortable as a developer, but yes some padding to make it easier for new users is always welcome. But UI design shouldn't have to be blamed on furries imo, since Neos is in Beta and was going through changes in UX during it's update lifespan.

Notice that in the Japanese community furries do not dominate as they do in english speaking yneos. They have been saved by the language barrier.

I mean the community is what it is regardless of why. The "why" isn't really important. Calling it not inclusive is accurate, but you could say Apple isn't very inclusive as it doesn't take Android APKs or allow custom ROMs or any of the other selling points of Android phones, but Apple also has a user base of people who like their products. What you're telling me here is that the Neos user base is "people who don't like crypto" and "furries." Which I guess is unfortunate when you're trying to sell a product that involves crypto, sure.

But the devs are still "people who don't like crypto" either and my original point is - what's the point of trying to both develop a crypto containing product on devs who don't like or want to develop crypto, to users who don't like crypto? You say "every person is a potential Neos user," but.. I'd refer to Hiatus' question - why play Neos? You say, "you can create stuff directly in it." So your target audience is creative people. That's a pretty specific segment of people, and... furries are kind of known for being creative. Not to mention generally of a political and philosophical mindset that tends to be against crypto. Ergo, it seems like your pitch for Neos as a whole is going to encourage the audience that you are claiming is "unfortunate."

But be that as it may, the original question stands - you asked why there's been no development, and the answer is they just don't believe in the product. I'm confused at the insistence on keeping it the way you want it to be despite their lack of belief in it. It's anyones right to like or dislike something. You can't make them like crypto. Or if you want to try, the effort thus far doesn't seem to be attempting that? I don't understand the strategy here.

How does this correlate?

Insulting a demographic of players, here being Furries, and blaming them for Neos' usercount being low falls under the direct definition of FUD, just to warn you, Karel.

Even with the language barrier, they're still the same people at the core of us. They just can't speak directly to you without having to worry about translation errors.

As I said I think Neos should be for everyone and when I see one group being dominant I have to fight to make it more welcoming for other groups as well. If there is so much hate on crypto that btw funds Neos we have to fight that.

If it was the other way I would fight for furries as well.

You could always accept normal currencies like any other game with micro transactions

Have you got any hard data that proves your hypothesis. Quantitative data?

If someone is so stauch on not liking furries that they dont want to play neos i dont undertand how the UI is where the breaking point is for them considering NEOS is for everyone so they would still meet plenty of furries

The UI needs improvement (as in current Neos UI in game) but the UI requires furries part is kinda confusing as anyone furry or non furry can explain the UI to you

Yes the UI needs improvement I have been pushing for about 8 years now to hire a professional to have a great default UI for beginners

This seems like a looping argument. Neos isn't developed because it's complicated, but is complicated because it's not being developed?

The more I have been pushing the more I have become hated for it

I don't think there is ever a valid reason to marginalize a group of people with a shared arbitrary characteristic.

All it does is alienate people who do support you because well, all they have in common is an arbitrary characteristic that is not related.

Hey, most people are welcome to new players. But didn't the issue start from far differing perspectives in the crew? Most of the team treated it as just an engine and wanted to keep monetization as one of the last goals to hit once they got more of Neos' core development finalized. Neos has shown to be really great for self-expression, which is why there are so many furries.

Improving the UI is fine
Embedding a web browser to do the UI in JavaScript is a meme

Wanting a more diverse community isn't accomplished by alienating the one you've got

Two things, Crypto never funded Neos. The Patreon did. It made over 60k a month (Which for the record, you hid the money the patreon was making), while Crypto, due to the poor management of it, was, at some times, sure, higher than that, but at most, it was barely even getting close. People can watch this stuff, Karel. There is hard evidence against Neos being funded by the Crypto systems in the game.

Have you ever seen any example of a new, non-furry Neos user who was driven out by someone billed to explain Neos to newbies simply because they didn't like the kind of person they were?

60k a month for two years of silence

Patreon made that money because theres crypto on it 🤣

Wut

The free NCR?

That is definitively not true. I could ask 100 different people, and maybe 4 of them would say it was because of the crypto that they did patreon stuff.

I didnt support Neos on Patreon for NCR

It grew exactly as the price of NCR grew

To them it's no different than vbucks

Because NCR was given with the Patreon. Doesn't holding it raise the value?

Yup for a long period it was cheaper to subscribe to patreon to get ncr then to mint it so a lot of users just subbed to patreon to get discount ncr. Once that became no longer viable the patreon started to decline in value.

Theres a portion of people who dont care about NCR but the 60k was mostly for NCR as the ratio was extremely nice

People joined when NCR went up....then people left when NCR went down...

How many of those individuals "actually used" Neos during this time or just used it as a wallet for Crypto?

FUD, that's not true

We are talking about who is funding Neos not playing Neos those two groups dont overlap completely

Some overlap but not full

So then my next question is thus,

Who gets to decide whats best for Neos?
Patreon investors who actually use the platform
or Patreon Investors who paid for NCR?

A lot of people hopef for Neos to grow into something much better woth better default UI Neos Store and Neos Jobs bezter performance that orders of magnitudes more people will want to use

Wasn't there no public facing updates for years outside of a few security exploits that were hastily done?

That is why a lot of people bought NCR

And the reaction of devs was we want to keep things the same keep Neos our private clubhouse

All 3 of those features are for monetization and don't build a community or enhance the platform

The 60k was not mostly for NCR. I can actively get evidence to back that up too, As I was one of the people who spent over £200 at one point, infact, I kept it for over 6 months. I know several other people who have donated over that amount, to support it. People who actively didn't really care for Crypto.

Ok but how do we fund your private clubhouse there just isnt a way

I didnt buy NCR, I paid into supporting the Developers of Neos, especially before all of this happening

its not a private clubhouse though?

Yeah but that's still going into my previous question.

You can't force people to develop what you want. They had a vision. You had a vision. They disagreed with your vision. Why expect them to do what goes against theirs?

Also I didnt co-found a private clubhouse not what I signed up for

How is it a private clubhouse?

anyone can join

Well now you know the answer to your "why has it not been developed for 2 years."

You didn't sign up for what they wanted to develop.

What is they? We were only two guys in the beginning when founding the project

That was it

Whoever isn't developing, I guess.

Sure but that was long after I signed up

About 4 years into Neos

My point is, the answer to "why things are stuck" seems pretty obvious to me. You are the immoveable object versus whoever isn't helping being an unstoppable force. Both sides want conflicting products. Nobody wants to give up their vision for the other.

Because Karel doesn't have fur

I jumped from VRChat to Neos, Jumping from a strict Unity UI to the Neos UI.
Yea sure it was a bit daunting at first but with a little help I was able and capable of doing things rather quickly.
Ive gone on to help construct quite a few worlds, accessories, avatars, having learned Blender specifically because Neos was an "Open" inviting platform for people to learn and socialize

Hey, Whatever happened to your other Director position, Karel? The one at VR Union. This is a genuine curious question.

How am I immovable? They can do updates tomorrow? They have complete independence of Neos Foundation

I feel the need to point out Canadian got, outsider, and prime exist.

*git

Bad analogy maybe.

Better to say you're both two goats butted heads together and neither willing to relent to the other. Point is! Conflicting desires, nobody willing to give up theirs.

I wonder how neos (in it's current path)would survive when cryptocurrency is regulated like normal currencies. Where wallets and exchanges would have the same compliance and security requirements as Banks

What does "having complete independence of neos foundation" mean?

They do exist and they are a minority for some reason

oh wait i see now, as in they are not part of it?

It means they can develop NeosVR independently

I feel like the crypto concerns in government have been greatly subdued with crypto kind of falling into yesterdays news.

And who would be laying out the direction?

Havng crypto on webapp gives them more freedom as they no longer have to include it in NeosVR if they want it out so bad

Not sure what more could we do

0utsider is no longer on the team

He is an 0utsider after all

Pfft, he's cool. Just got busy with real life

Looks like he plannd for it since choosing the nickname 😄

That's not very nice.

real mature.

Its a joke

An actual joke take notes

It's only a joke if people are laughing

Ahh yes I'm aware of your jokes.

Mentioning cheese types is not actual joke nor funny

Crypto has fallen to subculture in most of the world, especially due to some countries banning it and some heavily taxing and regulating it to a point of not being a proper form of investment.

So why make it such a heavy part of Neos as a Platform?

Insulting someone's username as for a reason why they left, isn't a joke. It's pointed harassment.

Lol

Cheese isn't a joke it is a food

I don't think they can comprehend not being disrespectful

Who are you calling they?

Preaching to the choir, man. I don't know. I do think crypto is way past its prime as most graphs for it are pointed pyramids whose peak was years ago. Even if you don't hate crypto, it is a very hard sell to see the future of it.

Unfortunate. Wish them the best.

Great shitting on crypto when we are trying for Neos Credits to be succesull what a great idea

Immature and unnecessary comment

Jesus jesus jesus

Please calm

The NFT craze that happened didn't help either. Have "true" ownership over in game items that are just hashed URLs which can be removed by the platform at any time. This pushed a bunch of people who never heard of crypto to hate it.

We didnt do NFTs nor did we do Land

The metaverses that did got much more funding than us

Karel, just so you're aware - there doesn't appear to be a Join/Signup function on the website anymore since the latest update.

Though we are number one at self sabotage

I don’t think there was one before. Looking forward to having it though.

There was, we used it for onboarding people for the Metamovie shows.

The fact it's not there anymore is a problem.

Oh hey enverex. Long time no see my dude. Wish it was better news to bring ya here.

I feel that the concept of a marketplace for artists to sell their assets is a great idea, and the implementation of crypto would be great to make it so it easily crosses borders without exchange fees. But Crypto as it currently stands is still a pretty slippery slope, as not all of it has been thought out yet. It's a great concept but in the execution there's so many people who've learned to just straight up manipulate the market to their favor to just take the bag. It's scarily common. That's why the previous development team was uneasy about it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230411005329/https://neos.com/

Here you can see the register/sign in button.

A fixed virtual currency under something like stripe or another payment vendor would be an improvement

I barely tapped into possibilities of investing, but the market was so turbulent and so many people having insider information, didnt make it a very smart choice for me to throw my money into..

Then ofcourse all the other issues of Pollution, destabilization of market for things like GPUs

It makes me wonder how Neos can continue to promote being inclusive while people are being silenced, blocked and banned for disagreeing how the platform is being used in a way that in fact doesnt promote inclusivity while having been an investor and user of the platform???

The marketplace in game is always viable, it's when you add a blockchain to something a single sql database could handle faster when things become questionable

Yeah, but from the beginning I really wasn't about money. It was about making tools for the other creators inside Neos to allow them to accelerate their creative processes. Which is why I'm not so worried about the whole implementation.

I should've also linked the old account page... Which does have a "register" button in order to create an account here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230727222817/https://account.neos.com/

Whales in stock

Which allows you to create the account using Username, Email, Password, and agreeing to the privacy policy. Certainly would want it back so that users such as students, event-goers, etc. can sign up for an account beforehand to speed up the process.

Neos needs to go to Coin An

I see looking forward to have it there again

You may have accidentally locked out one of the few business using Neos commercially by removing that... just so you're aware.

We'll have to scramble to try and fudge something else in the meantime if it's not going to be added back in the next day or two.

Commercial use would require having commercial licenses

Yes, the Neos Pro licence.

Which I think meta movie has.

Jason was one of the few with that licence, yes.

Yup can confirm

One license doesn’t cut it for so many users

The use is tolerated because its a nice project I like but I don’t think its doing much to fund Neos

That would be a good thing to discuss with Jason then.

The feature will certainly be added same as Oauth that we need for wiki

The MetaMovie hosts weekly live shows, this gives people something to do and attracts new people i dont see how it doesnt help neos?

It's one of the few things actually attracting people to the platform.

At least on the safe for work side yeah.

Need more of that

If the infrastructure costs are more than people are paying then having more users isnt helping to fund Neos

It just makes it worse

There has to be something that funds it like a crypto or tax on a Store or something

So are you invalidating all standing PRO licenses?
Just asking because of the "the use is tolerated" being a bit confusing since it specifically allows commercial use

It does for the one user not for all users.

Metamovie attracts public attention, which is a massive boon for a free platform that doesn't advertise itself

Custom licensing can be negotiated but I don’t think it was. So calling it commercial use seems bit funny to me.

So PRO licenses are no longer commercial-use licenses?

the pro license used to and so does the wiki say that a pro license perits commercial and institutional usage

Yea and the reason we don’t advertise is that we are not ready to grow as there is no way to pay for infrastructure costs

Theres also a Patreon tier with the same wording of "commerical usage"

Amongst other reasons like a hilariously bad UI for beginners

which is the one i subscribed to

But new users may also buy NCR no?

I don’t think they do.

or subscribe on patreon for that matter if they liked the experience

I've actually met quite a few who then went off and supported neos on patreon in my times as a mentor/trainer

Again the ratio of infrastructure to patreon is not good so increasing the costs makes it only worse not better

So ideally you would want people who do not use the platform but pay into it i guess?

We’re very grateful for all Patrons but Patreon only doesnt cover all costs and thats ok we should have a proper monetization

Neos Store

Yes for a platform to be long term viable its incomes have to be higher than expenses

Figuring a way how to do that is the hardest part of running the business

Otherwise your out

As is most of our former competitors

That makes sense yeah

It seems like ideally the platform wouldn't even exist

Purely from financial standpoint that would save a lot of expense yes 😄

But would also create problems in the income area of things

The furries are reporting Neos' Patreon fund for violating ICO cryptocurrency policies. What are they doing?

Aren't meteors kinda counter productive in this case then since it promotes longer usage periods per user putting more strain on the systems?
Or will non staking users not see the meteors?

Becuase even without reward people will absolutely mine funny rocks if they can

Meteors should help as the users mining those are likely NCR buyers or at least holders.

https://imgur.com/BdBr0CE

Ah so hoping it to be enough of an incentive to pay in kinda like battlepases just with no reward but visibility to entice, makes sense

Not sure that is relavant for an utility token but we will of course remove it if asked to do so by Patreon

In terms of the new users this feature attracts they are likely to buy NCR as you need it for staking. In terms of existing users I think it makes NCR holding for them more attractive as well.

Makes sense

That's what VictoriaVR did, they had so many people buying money and land, all for a platform that doesn't even exist.

Then in terms of funding they did an excellent job

I’m not a fan of land as I think it hurts the project in other areas though

It's also nonsensical and not really something which makes sense in an infinite digital space. The only time it makes any sense is for server rental, like with Second Life, though they've always charged insane amounts for what amounts to a low-end VPS.

Victoria! ive been trying to think of what the name of that thing was for a while

I've been watching their Discord for a long time. It's crazy how many people will pay money for snake-oil. None of them are technical obviously otherwise they'd see that the claims and marketing material make no sense.

It's a half-step up from the people that phone old people and tell them they need to pay for <random thing>.