I don't think it is fair to be significantly upset about the CEO not spending a lot of time hanging out in Neos. I have never met the CEOs of Nintendo, From Software, Apple, Microsoft, or any other major game or software company that I enjoy products from.
It is entirely possible that he just does not have the time to do much social stuff. Heck he may even be very introverted on top of that.

I am very jealous of people that can spend as much time in neos as they do. But between working my real job and trying to put myself in a position to where I can quit my real job and work my dream, I cannot justify spending a lot of time in neos. Some people just don't have time for that kind of thing.

You're comparing Nintendo? A multi billion dollar company? Do you expect to see the top dogs playing smash with you?

Its ok for Karel not to spend time in neos, thats totally fine.

But you dont get to do that and then try and force your vision onto the platform you basically have no experience in

Yeah cos being a dad you cant do anything else

Your bias is just clear to see

_what_

I told him it needed to be automated months ago, but I was just accused of FUD, and he said it wasn't going to be an issue

Yeah i remember that

We were told we were fudding on a lot of things that are happening now

Can anyone find me the "i bought froox sushi" post, i cant find it anymore

"Why wont you talk with me i got you sushi"
Is never gonna be forgotten by me

What is with people and critiquing others on their going out habits

we don't know, trying to bring a political side to this will not help. stop.

What the fuck

Attempting to politically charge this conflict will help nobody and contributes nothing. Stop trying to cause more of a divide.

Politics ain't what this is about, chief

Politics has 0 weight on this matter, quit it

Best leave that at the door

His tweet did not imply that political views where any significant part of the issue. Just that Froox did not care about money.

I think Ens either tying too hard to analyze thinngs or just trolling

because there literally no more context there

Haha. That would be smart

It's archived anyway

Will ncr become zero？

Can we stop with the politics already

Imma humor the politics thing for only one message and say that Karel talking about how "scoialist" Czechia is doesnt really make it seem like he has a positive view of "lefties"

but thatts as far as ill go

it has no impact on anything

Do you want to know an off topic fun fact? The Berlin wall's real name is the Anti Fascist Protection Rampart.

If Karel is kicked out and NCR at best becomes a third party product, do you think the dev team should get ANY of the funds generated by NCR?

No but service fees maybe. But again Karel could have a deal with Neos to have their coin have 0 processing fee, against others having some, so the coin would have an advantage over the rest

I mean the millions that already have been generated and not put towards buybacks.

Well they're already not seeing any of it so no, it wouldn't make a difference

And the Dev team can depend on funds raised by the community, since most who pulled out of patreon including myself are waiting for a way to directly support the team, which is way the patreon income has fallen massively

And is still falling, currently at 35k

I'm still holding on my Patreon. For now.

The minimum I need for storage

Yeah i cut my patreon to a tenth of what it was too to hold minimum for storage

What was the amount patreom was generating before this

I think our all time high was like 140k?

And now 35?

yup

and still falling

it was 36 yesterday and 40 a few days earlier

It's only the tenth and billing is at the end of the month so we'll see how low it drops

For anyone who plays the game and has a lot of stuff stored in game thers a minimum patronge theyll be forced to keep since otherwise they wont be able to save anything anymore, which makes sense if you arent paying for the space

At the same time currently NCR is a really good way to get storage in game

My statement on the current situation. Thank you everyone for your support, we'll get through this. 😊

None

Yo PDF drop lets see

one word - dead

110% It's actually good that there's someone who actually is more involved in the real world and other stuff than just code and the gaming sector, the one who handles the finances...

妈的！ 加仓去！ 支持NEOS

But right now dev team wants Karel out and the gamers are aboard it fully, hence the pr campaign to support the hostile takeover of the company

omg......

It starts off with him admitting wrongdoing and defeat but then goes into "but if you dont support ncr i will take action"

Give a pair of boxing gloves to Karel and Frooxius and lock them in a room!!

If he is being honest im happy hes seen what he did wrong, but also kinda eye rolling that he thinks he can still force his way on the team at the end there

we should move on as a company

NCR moon!

Support karel

Anyone have different idea should leave this channel, it's pro karel's channel. If you don't like, please go elsewhere.

funny man.

Get the fuc*ing quarrel out here.

i read it, and important part seems to be this one.

We are in an active period of negotiation talks with Tomáš in order to find a satisfactory solution that will
leave both parties free to develop Neos according to their own visions.

This s the official Neos Metaverse Telegramm according to the description, we can have criticisms all we want, disagreeing with you is no crime

you have your channel

Yes this is our channel

can you let us free from fuc*ing quarrel please.

by our i mean everyone of neos

please stop nonsense

Does it mean a fork?

For Neos Credits, a greater integration that will allow for an independent in-world economy and cost
effective payments is necessary. Neos Store will be an essential part of the new roadmap together with
other additions that we will be able to formulate once the situation is clearer.

yeah

If you dont like opposing views just dont engage with them its that easy

No

why no?

please shut up, this is a pro karel channel thanks. You do have your channel , go back.

I mean what he's saying is being 2 projects, which is fork

Dont make assumptions

I think he want seperate into 2 projects.

Where does it say 2 project

Yeah it being a fork is an assumption it would mean that going forward there would be 2 variants of neos independently develooped which i doubt would be the case

And start a new developing effort

Nowhere

You do have previous channel, why stay here, just keep saying.

hmm

ok i think i misunderstood some

2 different versions obviously,

how can it be 1 project with 2 visions? no clue without forking ....

These years developing is so slow, as he delcare.

Could be, we dont know, depends on how talks go still id assume, this is just a statement for now

nice meme

Why go to the moon when you can go to pluto tho?

karel's opinion is very clear, previous dev too slow, he will enroll more engineers to promote the development. And previous codes must be shared, because it's company's property. Otherwise he will use any legal weapon he can.

I mean what speed do you expect if you dont fund the dev team

ok... just assuming ur words
its kinda like
slow version with genius vs funded version with crypto

Stop discuss old things. We need the future. I'll buy back ncrs to support karel.

Good news is karel finally found, endless quarrel with these guys is useless.

clear rejection of Froox's offer. up to Froox now whether to split rights/licensing to Neos code and fork, or go to litigation

The previous dev team want both fund and code and fame. Karel and crypto society only want previous code, because it will save time rather than coding from the blank. And i'm sure current codes will be obsoleted with 18 monthes.

Where did fame come from here, what?

None

This does not make any sense, and contradicts what both sides have said.

Literally karel in his statement admits its about more than money

When we design some web3 projects, mostly we start from the buttom. Web3 (crypto) have different tech stack mostly. So the previous code just like some reference which can save time, but you have to write most of the codes from the beginning.

200 users are so few, I invest loot project also. Loots and Realms ecosystem have 10K users now, even before starknet still not activated.

hmm.. this could be nice opportunity to start from pro-crypto platform which will also allow DAO possible like the decentraland

Hi, as a programmer you have zero clue what you are talking about. Please stop.

neos users always accuse vrchat, but vrchat have 100times users more than neos.

I dont think you understand what people are saying

Accuse vrchat of what? huh?

I have not seen neos users "accuse" vrchat of anything.

If you think you are good, you can go elsewhere to get fun.

What?

you can say that again...

Very lucky karel start building a metaverse without you guys.

if hes trying to troll i dunno im mostly just cofused what hes on about

It will be a clean space, i want here be.

I mean its clear english isnt his primary language but even thenm just i have no idea

Please go back to your dc. You will found so many guys with the same idea like you, why not?

It's happy land

My dude we are all just trying to understand what you are even saying

You will have a bright future.

Thanks lad

Why you continue accuse those don't share the same view like you?

You can have any opnoin, it's ok.

Accuse of what

There is little common ground for understanding between persons of differing

See but thats the beauty of it we dont have to have common ground or agree, exchanging ideas even if opposing is neat

I support karel, but i won't blame support froox, just share the codes, and do seperation.

I’m so happy to read the statement. Thank you Karel! The real ceo is coming back!

neos can be 100k+ ac tive users

Hi all.

While it can’t expected that everyone is to agree with Karel’s statement, please let’s at least try to discuss things in a constructive, polite manner and with an open mind.

It is a difficult situation for sure, but one that has a solution, if we are able to focus on the future and the bigger picture. Nothing great was ever achieved by lingering in negativity and where is a will there is a way. And damn right there is a will 💪☺️

Even i'm boring here that kind of things, i can understand karel's headache

there is a way

Thank you Andrea

That too 😁

hard folk, share the codes, give some funds to previous team. Third party? never can, company must have his own developing team.

If neos metaverse still depends on these guys, there won't be any future for neos metaverse and ncr.

That's a bit of a bleak view

what is neos's true vision?

Should this Document be put in the Official Neos discord announcement channel?

They can enbracne their vision, but they can't stop neos metaverse.

I mean afaik Karel has access to that chanel

Can't, those guys prevent karel do that.

what

Company must setup a new dc.

That's an interesting claim?

they are rude

Can't reach any common sense.

So karel can only do is, use legal weapon, retreive back codes. Meanwhile start codes from beginning, as soon as possible.

This is starting to get into conspiracy territory a bit

No need. It's nothing.

Karel Can we get this document in the official Discord server announcements channel?

Exactly we already are spreading the document ourselves in the discord but Karel probably should make an announcement there for those who dont read the related threads

huh thought that would tag him.. Never use Telegram lol

This is the official Telegram at least.

You need the @

Yeah but the distribution of yknow people is a bit different eveyone should be aware of this information

There is no official Telegram. Karel calling it one won't change that, when it's managed this poorly and the team has no input.

If you want an official telegram, make one that all the team has access to and that follows the Neos guidelines.

May be true but this is 178 vs Thousands in discord. Some have even been banned from here for negative talk of Karel and NCR. Although negative talk isnt something that is good the information should still be public to the greater group. Also many dont use the telegram channels for the assumption of it being NCR focused. It can also be pointed out this channel isnt officially linked in the discord as well limiting access

this is for Reactant , forgot to reply

Statement has now been posted in announcements

Signed by Frooxius?

No? This is his personal statement

Karel said in the pdf that he and frooxius are going their separate ways and each will develop neos the way they want. That makes this the official Telegram for what Karel is building.

Any response on this idea of separation ways from Frooxius ?

geenz clicking shit emo on Karel's discord announcement is just pathetic.
I hope Froox's reaction isnt such immature one.

He said it is in active negotiations. That should be good enough for now.

Until a joint statement, I would take the whole "two neos projects" thing with a fist full of salt

Frooxius said that they were in active negotiations?

but not like as we want obviously....
Froox suggested Karel to leave with 3rd party NCR, which is also active negotiation

Frooxius lived in the metaverse for too long, neglected all the real life things.

Frooxius can’t run a company. He is a metaverse guy

It will be very interesting to see Froox running company.

Yeah exactly

None

He will ruin the company easily

thats for sure if he doesnt hire CEO

good old days....

He can hire somoene to do accounting n such, I doubt theres gonna be an issue there

I guess it’s very hard to talk with a metaverse guy

Frooxius already has a full volunteer team

He wont have to hire people

Coding is not running a company. That’s why we only hundreds of users after 7 years of development

I mean if a skillset isnt covered by a volunteer he'll either need another volunteer or to hire someone to do it

what if it's bad for projects to grow until everyone uses them

I’m here not for quarrels

Many large companies started out with someone that only coded and became huge in the end.

I am sure he will hire people as he grows.

Company management

as far as i can tell, a few hundred users was enough for froox to support the amount of development he wanted to do, which was extremely cheap because most devs were working for free

Frooxius will insist on the third party token plan

None

id assume so

i would say i don't understand people's fixation with growth, but i do understand it and fucking hate it

if your goal is to create a product that grows indefinitely, you're making cancer

Neos has thousands of active daily users per day, and regularly has 300 concurrent users at a time. Neos' growth has been slow, and that's good. Suddenly popularity spikes rarely go down well.

...As evidenced.

whenever i see people say "here's how to grow" it's either "dump your money into Facebook ads" or "find #1 and do what they do" and both are bad — and the current third option of "run a ponzi scheme and hope some of the victims also play your game" is not inspiring either

But Froox doesnt even claim for company's rights such as IP.
Even if the company thrives, there will be always fight over this.

Not to mention that all of neoses current growth is purely organic and that is good because neos in its current state is no ready to pump out some advertisements to get people in, we need to first get the UI update and thats honeslty just the start

UI / UX, avatar creation, FBT

Logix rework

Permissions, are also important for mass adoption and the optimization of the data model

Maybe permissions first and set in the design. Separate scripting language beside LogiX for more complex stuff

Separation of avatars from the world to live in their own overlays maybe for additional protection

Read the statement though not much is changed. I understand he worded it a certain way to try to be positive but everyone just called him shit anyway

Mainly cause of the wording and the ending part where he reasserts his offensive against the teams wishes

Static world overlay to boost download time when joining worlds and less load on the host

his offensive against their wishes?

Lol "offensive"

They are in a legal dispute

you mean his defense for the NCR holders?

How is offensive a bad word?

It's part of his company also... Of course he should protect his rights

What do you expect him to say

I didnt expect anything else from him

Asserting disputed legal rights now = warmonger

You have to think for the company, not just the team members

I fully expected him to go "my way or the highway" on this, but this is why people dont like him

continuing to try and assert his power over the team

how did he go "my way or the highway"?

If you were a CEO, do you want to control your team?

I want!

Like it or not, Karel is a founding partner so him setting up a telegram kind of makes it official

tbh the part of karel's statement i find infuriating is this:

That’s what a CEO does

the man wants to build a Product. the possibility of creating art is totally excluded by t his

CEO has to deal with the reality

so there are some who never gets satisfied until total defeat, thats the nature of some

he's just baldly asserting that options other than creating Product are impossible, ignoring how Neos actually came to exist

i think he was voicing some frustration that theres a somewhat ideological tone in the community

it comes off as _incredibly_ naive to me

that he finds unfair

like i feel like youre projecting all sorts of shit on him

Yes, they both have equal share but so far have had totally different areas of focus which has lead to this mess

Karel could say hello and we'd have few furries getting angry about the tone he used

orc: i mean ok, let me read this very literally before i get on my soapbox. he's saying you can't build a product without creating value for supporters and investors,and without creating the appearance of constant progress

neos _was_ being iterated on and was creating value for a main demographic — its users

So no negotiations any more. Fight!

It seems like the only point of contention is what is the fate of the NCR holders, where Karel wants them to be taken care of and Froox/devs/community thinks it's acceptable to toss them aside and let NCR go to zero and be a "plugin" or some shit

Let NeosVR die with NCR

effectively karel needs to be read as saying "well, you can't build shit like this without investors, and you've got to appease them"

Neos will be dead in the water without progress. Metaverse space is being entered by the biggest companies in the world, there's no chance for Neos if it's being developed by 5 people and catering to only furries

i understand why karel would want to say this — that's the path he chose for neos and he'd prefer we see it as inevitable

but like, i follow indie projects other than Neos so I'm aware you can build shit without whoring yourself out to capitalists

More than 6K token holders are doomed and treated like shit

froox himself said neos needed funds to continue and that NCR saved the "company" like he LITERALLY said that

and even when you do whore yourself out to capitalists, it doesn't _have_ to be represented in like, completely compromising the actual product to investors

yeah they want us to be a casualty they can sweep under the rug. Karel is still the only one who gives a damn about us.

The truth is that Frooxius want the ico ETH to fund the development but Karel used them for buybacks. So dispute started.

That’s all

a lot of people have repeated this, i _kind_ of think it's true, although i also haven't seen the original posts. the other devs universally appear not to think this

lets wait for Froox. I wonder what he has in mind now

i dont think he said anything conflicting or constricting on peoples creativity or ability to ignore NCR.

Doesn't look like it

i'll point out that almost all of the NCR went to buybacks — and there _was_ VC

Literally even karely debunked this being the only issue

It is

That isn't what it was about, but I think that added to the dispute that already existed before

go to frooxius reddit accout its one of the most recent posts

What's VC?

It clearly isn't, dev team doesn't like the vision of their other boss and how he's handling things so they want him out

And if Frooxius has all the fund, he will kick Karel out easily

they got money from Rothenberg, an institutional investor

So will Froox accept some of the funds? lets see

But Karel won’t let that happen, so buybacks

Who doesn't have the equity any more afaik

So I wonder where the equity went

humbly think youre wrong if you cant see the real and direct malice. the community is drunk off hate for us and karel

15% of equity

the fund is still there

unmanaged

i mean my issue isn't "whether you can ignore NCR," my issue is that a ponzi became the main offering

it's not like my issue is me, personally, being scammed. my issue is that a scam was run

How?

6k investors lost their fucking shirts — you're not going to argue that there are no victims

Do you have any idea how markets work? It seems they're all ponzis since they go both up and down...

who owns that 15% equity nowadays?

karel took a real art project and turned it into a tool for capitalists — in the end, everyone got burned including karel, and he's still defending it

its the Rothenburg's vehicle that owns.

yo um dunno how to tell you this but froox was compliant and played a part in it

But Rothenburg is inactive so.. its unmanaged

i think that is bad!!!

can be said it is owned by the lp

thats if we wanna go by your simplistic idea that evrrything is a ponzi etc which I dont

but gp isnt doing their job

why are you doing a fucking whataboutism, my man

sorry

15% of equity is the term

i think it's bad that karel decided to introduce crypto and bad that froox complied

15% of equity

you can say it's not a ponzi or w/e but my point is that they only raised capital by doing this blatantly product-irrelevant thing that courted a lot of money from uh, capitalist assholes and pump-and-dumpers

and froox said wothout crypto Neos woulda died years ago. he LITERALLY said that

a massive number of people were hurt, growth was not _actually_ achieved

Time to take a breather, cryptos are volatile for many reasons. BTC has gone through cycles like this about 5 times now, the volatility of ncr went even more extreme due to how minting was structured and the dev team trying to take over the company

but someone was sacrificed on the altar of growth so I guess crypto fucks are happy

(despite having, by and large, completely lost their shirts on this)

youre projecting all sorts of shit again

yes

the only ppl sacrificed were us lmao

equity doesnt need those terms, why its called equity

but I kind of saw it as CB

You shouldn't invest more than you can lose, especially on crypto. And if buy high and sell low strategy never works well for anybody

maybe not equity really

why do you start denying this every time it would be inconvenient for my argument, but admit it every time it stops seeming relevant

if it was convertible bond, there would be some terms..

like the dude stapled a bunch of peacock feathers to froox's mostly unrelated artistic vision to get you to buy it. was that bad or wasn't it?

also seems all Karel wants is for NCR holders to not be flushed away like shit, but ALL devs are out to dispose of them. They dont just want to be rid of Karel they cravenly want to be rid of crypto stigma as well

i will hot take that i don't think ncr can be saved and those who are gunning for that are going to be hurt again

if you bought in at 50 cents you might be ok, but if you bought in over a dollar, your money is as good as lost

You do realize that every single patreon was an NCR holder

I bought in even cheaper

yeah thats the part I got stuck ..
Devs said its not about crypto and it seemed like it. But actually they hated crypto for some reasons and was talking shits privately

you cant seem to see you are looking at things from this peculiar angle and very ideologically wanting to follow this evil rich man narrative when its likely more complex than that

It all depends if the dev team can actually agree to negotiate other than to just want Karel out on their own terms

i'll fully disclose, i work for a company where my perception is that effectively this same thing happened

What upsets me is, that what I put into the mint has been distributed to the "scammers" I mean, who profited from the buybacks

it's possible i'm guilty of over-imposing the pattern i've witnessed in real life. but i've witnessed it in real life for multiple products, of which several weren't cryptos

you're probably not going to argue me out of the idea that when you go around looking for investment, the main thing investors are looking for is "ok how much are you willing to whore your product out for short-term gain" — and karel talks identically to the other people i have seen who wants that

Yeah, but the thing that upsets me is that Neos is one of those losers in that game

the most common thing is to create the appearance of incredibly strong KPIs in the short term so retail investors will overestimate your valuation and you can scam them — that's how like, Uber works

Okay, they have NCR now and they can break even, but that's a high stake. Especially now with the current situation

well I just see online alot people take a complex situation involving people and simplify them to being less than human and take this infantile view on things all the time. reminds me of how social media wants to compare the Ukraine war with Marvel comics or star wars or some shit all time time

i guess my stance is that there's a naive view of this issue that is mostly wrong, and at no point have i really posted that naive view — but i'm frequently accused of it

there's a lot of attempts to find nuance which are all fairly stupid

yeah and thats happened with karel I think but.. whatever

my opinion is that i actually thought about it for a while and concluded the thing that happened is really gross and ugly, and the fact of me having a strong opinion gets turned into "wow, your stance must be incredibly naive"

well im on mobile and things move fast and its hard to have a nuanced discussion like this

(in particular: i'd be upset by Karel's behavior even if it saved the product — like, i've worked on things that were saved by institutional investment but which lost their soul as a result; i think it's bad that froox was complicit in it)

oh yeah, i get you! fwiw i'm trying to be a little bit less of an asshole to you although i might be failing

like whats being lost tho? they gonna remove fur avatars or something? like just admit you want Neos to be a place for marxists and furries to hang out or something

i'm admittedly still mad about distant-past shit like the sale of livejournal, which i kinda see this as comparable to. like i see this as just another chapter in a ridiculously long story of corporate greed

orc: this is more analogous to my favorite punk band announcing an official sponsorship by Wal-Mart

I guess I can see the paralell.. but again I think we often rush to simplistic views

i mean ok it's more like that already happened with the VC thing, but the announcement was made "well we're all still puppets but there's room for an additional hand up our collective asses"

Punk nowadays is commercialized to death

i guess one of my opinions is that usually, post-acquisition, the decay of a thing is pretty slow and hard to exactly trace back to the people who did the acquisition

and tbh i think the community wants simplistic views. theyve long wantedna crypto badman to bash and they dont want karel to be anything except that. like full stop you are not paying attention if you cant see that the community wants NCR holders to get anally raped and the devs are at best acting like deadbeat fathers who want to dump their responsibility in a truckstop toilet

when capitalists buy something, their goal is to extract as much revenue as they can from it — and sometimes that means a slow strategy, which means it can last for a while, but other times they don't have the mental bandwidth to run a slow strategy so they full-on destroy shit.

running a pump-and-dump suggests the slow strategy is not being run

fwiw i actually just learned this part of the deep Kulza lore and that is actually super impressive to me

(i did not know who you were but noticed you were active! that's uh, fucking awesome)

oh man, lately i've been totally trying to reframe NCR holders to myself as victims in my head, which is admittedly hard because some of them behave in ways that are hateable

I didnt mean to imply that

(and a lot of them are ESL which means they can't speak up for themselves very well)

tbh i dont care if someone even is communist

fwiw i would not describe myself as a communist, i think i have a requisite level of disgust for capitalism though

Wait why how when did we get to communism?

but I also thinknlarge numbers of the community ans lots of furries are currently on a marxism fling. and again I dont care if someone is communist but it seems to override their logic more importantly care for other human beings

oh man yeah there's definitely a lot of furries who say they're communists to be edgy

cause its sorts acknowledging at at the center of the crypto vs anti debate are political motivations playing out

no?

i think most furries have some leftist sympathies but do not know what they want to do with the state. imho if you don't want to create communism you probably shouldn't call yourself a communist

thats the current i feel

politics have no weight in how we feel about crypto, we are thinking purely for the game.

That's a bad take

i think that basically yes, a lot of people are needlessly shitty to folks who are basically victims in this equation — i think a lot of furry fandom's general shittiness to crypto people is tbh deserved, because if you don't pounce on MLM or whatever, it _really_ entrenches itself

i think it's actually good for furry fandom that anyone who thinks "maybe I'll sell NFTs" has to think "but then I would be dogpiled" because like, the super heavy and slightly irrational response keeps that behavior mostly out of p ublic

For full disclosure i am unhappy with current society but what i want is not as easy as communism or capitalism, my main ask is that living is no longer a privilige.

Work should provide income for extra things, bare necesities like food water and shelter should not require you to work for them

whereas if we didn't do that, i think crypto people would try super hard to meet us in the middle

And i think thats not a political thing to say that people should be allowed to be alive, just humanitarian

lucaedr: i mean i think orc is actually sincere, but i think on avg people bring up politics because when someone admits to being a communist it's easy to just switch to acting like they showed their whole ass

i identified as a communist until i realized i didn't think anarchism would work and i didn't like any actually-existing socialist states.

well i made an offhand mention of how I think political currents in the furry community are a part of disagreements.. like I think we all want to simplify things to have cleae villains in the situation

tbh I jave mine and its the devs that created NCR holders and now want to sweep em under the rug

(fwiw i think my strong anti-karel stance is not a result of having an oversimplified view of the situation; however, he strongly reminds me of IRL people I hate, so i likely have some bias)

if the purpose is tp get rid of karel.. why cant they come to a solution that doesnt involve having NCR holders be shoved away as third party?

"Pulling the rug" was never the intention from either party, it's just a side effect of a coin being based on speculation alone. They are having a conflict, and every time internal conflict happens, especially the ones that go public, tanks trust and reputation

on both sides

i guess one of my thoughts is basically that demanding "nuance" is really common as a way to forestall criticism, even when the nuance doesn't exist, or makes the situation look worse

i guess my practical feeling is that I just don't see NCR's valuation _ever_ spiking to the levels it had before

i feel like anyone who bought it at that price was just wrong, probably. like it was clearly getting pumped via hype

I dont either lol I see it going to less than a penny

i'm not sure it can be saved, although it can probably be temporarily pumped again — which would just hurt a new set of investors

i think the original sin was selling NCR at unsustainable prices, and from there _someone_ has to lose

there's always a loser in crypto

it's hard to assign responsibility for that because yeah, some minted NCR was sold that way, also some bought NCR was

I mean most of us said from the start that the sudden massive pump from crypto investors is a bad thing because marketplace is not in place yet

but we were called fudders

^

muted even

If there are losers in all markets thats fine. If NCR crumbled due to natural market movement thats one thing... but ppl are upset bexause this is anything but natural

i mean i would argue that if the price is something ridiculous as part of a hype cycle, then it's gonna crumble no matter what

yeah I agree

i would also argue that karel was super complicit in keeping the hype cycle going

It's natural because there was nothing to back the currency up beyond Karels words which have since then been called into question

i don't even know how much money he was making from that. it strikes me as something people would also do for ego

It should be a red flag when you see several people going "TO THE MOON JUST BUY BUY BUY"

look the hype cycle was facebook became meta and everyone was looking at metaverse tokens

The last thing Karel said before frooxes last statement had been "NCR to the moon" so yeah

they always do that. cant you just ignore idiots ?

The point I'm making is that when it gets to that point, you should become wary

Of course I can ignore them, but the wave is already rolling

i think you've done this few times? people's objection isn't "i was scammed," because yeah then ignoring it would help. people's objection is "there was a scam"

someone could say that whrn ncr was 6 cent tho but whatever

At the very least once the first liquidity wall was put in place to prevent the price fromo dropping you should have seen this coming

i never held NCR and never lost NCR. i'm upset because of the Thing That Happened; so saying "yeah, ignore those people" doesn't help when i'm upset about what happened to other people

people say its a scam becsise they collected money for 4 years then dump the ppl they collected from

like it's weird because you (Orc) have been hammering the point that it's so unfair for the devs to ignore the NCR holders, but when people complain about how they were taken for a ride you're like "eh, it happens. if you're smart you won'tget scammed"

like even I call that a scam

I had NCR from Patreon minting, looked at the trends and without any deep crypto knowledge saw this coming and sold at a profit point VS the money i had put in

Who is toxic towards this statement?

i dun remember saying that

ok putting it another way — it's "remember the NCR holders!" when people threaten to remove NCR altogether, dumping its value but eliminating the possibility of a pump-and-dump. when people point out "that would lead to a pump-and-dump which is bad" then all of a sudden it's "forget the NCR holders!"

the entire discord and twitter lol

you've argued both sides of this albeit not in these exact words — you argued "remember the NCR holders!" when whining about how furries don't seem to respect NCR fans

I mean PDF was an odd format choice but yeah its definitely a lot better written, still not a statement we like, but also who has been harrassing him?

but like khosumi pointed out the signs of a bubble and you were like, "yeah that will just happen, ignore it"

no Im only arguing that NCR should exist and let the market determine its USD value

Nobody is attacking the statement, they're disagreeing but not being toxic

ok? well, it will literally exist in any case

nobody can take it off the market

it seems to me like what you want is first-party support, which enables the scam

thats not what im seeing

(because it might get pumped and you might get out)

youre projecting shit on me again

oh, sorry. because it might get pumped and all those NCR holders the furries are casting into the gutter (your words) might get out

like all of the stuff you said, none of it, justifies droppijg NCR to third party

survival of neos does

no neos no coin

i mean that's not how this should be looked at imho — the question is "was there ever a good reason for NCR to be first-party?"

If it was third party its price would be fully decided by the market

the answer is "there were bad reasons — it helped the platform survive but led to a boatload of people being scammed"

you word it like I dont fucking play the game or didnt like Neos

What utility would the coin have without neos

where did i say anything like that?

its value is derived from it being supported by thr developers

the answer to "is there a good reason now?" (for NCR to be in the game) is "obviously no, the game is barely being funded and there's massive harm potential at little apparent upside"

all 4 of you can you slow the fuck down on me? Im on mobile

It's value is derived from its utility within neos, currently only buying storage and tipping people

it doesnt have to be first party to allow this

the literal reason ncr exists is for the marketplace, and that doesn't exist yet

and when the developers of the game say "were dropping support and wont ever develope functionality for it again but um someone can like made a mod or something for it" that means its not real

Yup third party would mean Karel with his own team would be maintaining NCR integration and functionality

i mean it was always backed by smoke

you can make business deals you know

less processing fees

bonus coins

whatever you want but you can incentivize using a token over others

there arent processing fees with crypto just gas fees?

and it doesn't need to be tacked on neos

YOu don't get what I"m saying

Neos could add processing fees for using any kind of payment

They said Karel can integrate with the game through his own made system, maintained by him.
Literally no functionality of the utility token lost, just neos devs being able to focus on neos

They could simply not charge anything for using NCR

Gas fees are literally procesing fees

why cant they both just support it and let both sides develope for neos?

They are payment for processing the transaction

like ok what is the compelling reason for devs to do this in the first place

it boosts the portfolio value for people who still hold NCR — that's it

it also has the extreme likelihood of leading to future pumps and dumps. so it sells out future victims at the short-term benefit of current victims

imo should need to be 18 to use Neos

no

It's educational software

It's not an adult game

You can make an adult world but on your supervision

Neos was literally built on the foundation of being for education initially and you want to give it an 18+ Rating, just what

yeah I know but I think those opinions wane over time and personally I believe in decentralized digital ownership and think others will see it as making sense too

Greed is not desired in gaming

it's a hobby

You can just look at the fight against loot boxes for that

We don't want our notion of fun to become marketed and used against us in addictive formulas

well I would argue lootboxes being sold to 13 year olds is wrong too

We agree

or any gambling mechanics in games accessible to children

I atleast like it when valve does it because if theres an item you wsnt you can simply buy it

that's not true

patreon overpays what's needed to develop the game

thats also why I like crypto in that it lets me have control of the items I get but thats off topic

none of the money gathered from the ICO went into game dev

I hope you knew that

it could have if they werent in a kurfluffel

so you don't care about what's actually happening, you see line go down so you're mad

how productive

i dunno if 40k is enough to pay 13 or so employees and maintain all the cebtralized services of neos too

tho maybe it is i dun know

It is

anyway

well its been argued the neos team is willing to work for free and also argued ncr made the patreon higher

patreon was abused during decembre, which had a massive amount of people pledging ridiculous amounts because of a batch that was going to offer some generous amounts of NCR

It wasn't sustainable, and most of them would have unsubbed

it was also just before a halving so that wouldn't continue either way

so anyway the debate is about whether crypto is bad or positive

Nope

and also if the NCR holders should be side casualties collateral damage

Money is not an issue

why don't you go play decentraland

I like crypto because I believe in a decentealized metaverse

but thats just me

do you enjoy it?

Btw notice the overwhelming positive reaction to this statement VRChat made regarding crypto https://twitter.com/vrchat/status/1487192108180123654

NCR has been being sold since 2018

i see. well seeing as most users hardly knew it existed

lol

no