- 12 March 2022 (689 messages)
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Yeah the current engine is just not optimized for ARM at all and it’s something Geenz has been looking into. -
Not sure, he was looking at stride rendering engine though -
Thing is it's fully open source, stride is anyway
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so he can make modifications
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but that's just something he was looking at
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So is NCR just for doing transactions? It or does it actually include a way to do asset management for what was purchased so that that asset can be resold? -
Karel has stated that they plan on offering NFT support when ETH moves to PoS.
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hmm so that's a disappointing answer. I thought I finally understood the usecase. :(
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Which is exactly what a user generated content virtual world should be.
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Linden Lab built a multi-billion dollar empire with this formula. It works well when the world can be crowdsourced by the users and organic marketplaces emerge within the world. The key to Second Life’s success is the demand for virtual goods, and that comes with fostering communities in-world. It’s all a very delicate balancing act that’s a lot more complicated than selling NFTs because line go up.
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So I'm really trying to understand. If it's just a transaction system at the moment with potential down the road for some form of asset management. What makes it a better base than any other transaction system with vaporware asset management?
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From what I see I think the big assets are the ownership of the NCR minting wallet, the logix engine in game, and the backend p2p connectivity that enables the assets to be rendered and controlled on offsite servers for the worlds. The last two of which are part of the frooxengine. The 3d portion of the engine is kind of irrelevant as everyone has pointed out the 3d renderer is unity at the moment so isn't really an asset. Is there another asset I'm missing?
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honestly the p2p asset sharing is the magic to me. That's the thing linden labs could never manage and why they still require you use their servers for the islands.
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While the core is on several prime nodes the worlds are run on users individual machines. So this isn't really a fair assessment.
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I'm looking for actual technical answers and not things based on emotional reactions. I'm curious what's actually assets at the end of the day.
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I'm interested in what functions underneath it that are available to enable that.
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I'm not to the point of asking why do one thing or the other. I'm trying to understand the basics.
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I'm really trying to see what the advantages are.
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I was hoping it was full on asset management but apparently that's not what ncr is.
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at least not in its current form.
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So what makes ncr more decentralized than any other option?
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OK but if karel and neos own ncr. How is that decentralized?
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Wouldn't eth be better?
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So why not use a more stable one?
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What's the advantage that NCR has?
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That's what I'm trying to find out
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I mean if 2 people having a spat can cause it to drop is it really decentralized?
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That's what I'm trying to see.
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But that's centralized.
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That's exactly what I thought you said we didn't want.
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It's owned and controlled by 1 group.
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Wouldn't it be better to tie it in with other things like eth so it's actually decentralized and not subject to fluctuations based on two people fighting?
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But it's enough of the token to tank it apparently.
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Which is bad and not really decentralized.
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So where's the advantage? That's what I'm trying to see.
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Because to me, right now based on what I've seen, I think linking it into eth or making it where I can shift to a more stable currency would be a better bet.
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I'm not worried about funding the project at the moment. I'm worried about the larger picture.
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We've already covered that some form of transaction system is needed which I'd assume neos would skim off the top to cover that.
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So if I buy say $100 of NCR right now. How does that money end up in karel's hands?
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So how am I investing?
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I'm only giving money to whomever I bought the ncr from wouldn't I?
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So once it's done being minted there's no more money?
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Thank you for helping me understand btw.
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This is really useful for me. :)
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So ncr actually could be seen as a single cash injection overtime with no long term growth for the company?
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So what does NCR bring to the table for that?
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I thought initially it was asset management where I could use NCR to prove my ownership of a particular asset which made me excited but apparently that's not in it yet.
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Right now it looks like it was just a round of funding for neos with a set cap because once it's all minted it's value is only passed around between people who trade it for other currency. Hopefully, neos takes a cut when the transactions occur in world so they can make money. But I don't see how NCR vs any other currency provides an advantage in that scenario. Could you give me the technical reason NCR could fill that role better?
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But it has no long term sustainability for the company other than a cash injection?
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Right. I'm looking at this from overall stability and like you said earlier decentralization.
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I see how NCR can make neos a lot of money until they've emptied the wallet.
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but once it's all minted and the wallet is sold off there's no more money for the development from NCR?
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The hope is they can build another cashflow from using NCR? Is that the goal?
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I'm just trying to understand.
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It seems like there is going to be a set ammount of NCR that can be sold.
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So it's a stop gap to get cash into the company. What am I missing?
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and in the end if I want to inject money into the company from NCR I have to make sure I purchase from specific wallets right?
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I'm trying to figure out how NCR is more stable for the long term transaction system for neos vs another currency. Right now, to my layman's eye, it looks like NCR is an unstable series A funding that's based on two people getting along while it gets minted. But in the end only has a set amount that can be sold before the funding runs out. If you trade NCR in neosvr does neos take a cut of the NCR?
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I've been told that it's because it's decentralized but it seems like it's not really. So I'm trying to understand how it's decentralized as well.
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Yeah I know there's the dispute going on with sides being drawn. I'm trying to understand outside of that part of the political mess.
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I can see how it would get a good influx of cash as long as NCR's value stayed high. But eventually the ICO wallet would run out. So I'm curious what the sustainability plan was.
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the only thing I can come up with is skimming on transactions, which is a great way to make money sure.
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It is not -
Ah yeah I didn't think about that. Ancillary services like storage etc being billed in local currency.
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Sorry for slow response I opted for lunch over educating myself. :P
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None -
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lol the false neutrality and air of moral superiority was so fucking nauseating. -
their behavior reminds me of the woke mob that crucified bret weinstein at evergreen college. there is a good youtube documentary on that whole affair. you'll recognize the same patterns if you watch.
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here is part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2WeWgcSMk&t=6sPART ONE: Bret Weinstein, Heather Heying & the Evergreen Equity Council
Part one of a three-part series of short films about Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying's experience at Evergreen State College. Part 2: https://youtu.be/A0W9QbkX8Cs Part 3: https://youtu.be/2vyBLCqyUes This series is associated with a feature length documentary "Grievance Scholars", please support production here - https://www.patreon.com/mikenayna One-off transfers can be made here - https://paypal.me/mikenayna My usual sources of film funding are blocked off to me because of the sensitive subject matter and the slow approach I'm taking. If you think what I'm doing is valuable and you're in a position to help, you can support the project here - https://www.patreon.com/mikenayna For anyone uncomfortable with Patreon, one-off transfers can be done here - https://paypal.me/mikenayna Anonymous crypto donations can be made at these addresses: BTC: bc1qjsqgmhzt0kfznc2y8x7grx23cmv2fd8qqpy8jc Eth: 0xF854707880e4318eb39660B260496897CE63eeAA Doge: DRPPYS86v4b4Z5ntkNs3twrtbq8hPfPbYf Tron: TSAx5kJY47J3V4sKNeNXmdaEK2b8cRKZqT May 2021 update: I have one final interview to shoot this month then will be deep in my editing cave for a couple months on the Grievance Scholars feature film. A sincere thank you to everyone that has donated so far, I can't emphasise enough how much it keeps this thing going. PLEASE NOTE: I ask that viewers respect every person that appears on my channel. Please find constructive ways to discharge the emotions my films engender and please do not contact anyone that appears in my films unless it is positive. I shot this table discussion intending it to be a scene in a feature documentary I'm working on about The Grievance Studies Scandal - https://bit.ly/2zkBKBn As I delved into the saga and learned more about what took place it became clear it needed to stand alone as its own story. Here is a related Areo article - https://areomagazine.com/2019/01/20/the-influence-of-anti-racist-scholarship-activism-on-evergreen-college/ Former Evergreen Student, and fellow filmmaker, Benjamin Boyce was extremely helpful on this series. His work is a much deeper dive into the Evergreen events and I recommend watching his work and supporting his channel - https://bit.ly/3fWUDic Learn about the Grievance Studies Scandal - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLHyNSlsz449SOhzpo7ClMEKe9WkXt5GO Featuring: Bret Weinstein - https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein Heather Heying - https://twitter.com/HeatherEHeying Peter Boghossian - http://www.twitter.com/peterboghossian Mike Nayna - https://www.twitter.com/mikenayna James Lindsay - http://www.twitter.com/ConceptualJames Helen Pluckrose - http://www.twitter.com/HPluckrose James and Helen's book, Cynical Theories, is now available for pre-order - https://www.amazon.com/Cynical-Theories-Scholarship-Everything-Identity_and/dp/1634312023 - It's an important read with huge implications if we can get it into the hands of enough people.
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battle lines are clearly drawn. no more of the bullshit posturing while they actively try to take down Karel and NCR. this is all about the lawyers now.
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Ya, i tried to explain to him why a simple third-party API is not acceptable, and all he had to say was that any concessions that would provide NCR with actual utility in-game wouldn't be well received by the broader community. Which...he is probably correct about. But the alternative is litigation.
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lol you going to keep asking the same question over and over? ppl have explained it multiple times now.
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Lol
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Exhibit #1 for Primes deposition
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Exhibit #2 = teams wallet transactions
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Exhibit #3 = fiat withdrawals
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Lol I'm not in discord anymore, what are they saying
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Hard fork is the only realistic solution imo. The challenge then will be growing an independent user and creator community.
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That too, but that is technically feasible with sufficient funding and time I think.
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It is all that is left, so no point in dickering about it further imo.
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Ya, public statements were explicitly stating the dispute wasn't about NCR, which gave false hope to a lot of people
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Its alright, many of us took a loss including myself.
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They think what they are doing is noble in defending their niche world they've created for themselves, justifying all their actions including dehumanizing Karel into some caricature of a monster, and rugging all the "evil" and "toxic" crypto bros
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Not 5 years, probably 2-3 based on my experience of such cases
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Cases are all being litigated remotely, it's fine. There were delays at beginning of covid but everyone has adjusted by now.
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Ya it will likely be UK or Czech. But they're not like third world countries man...
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They have functioning court systems lol
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I'm not holding any NCR, at this point I just want to see some justice done. And possibly reinvest if I see positive signs.
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Haha fair point. Hopefully this shit doesn't take 5 years
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The "death threats" came from one user Winston who was banned. it was toxic and obviously wasn't right, but we're fucking adults, these weren't real or credible threats. People lost thousands of dollars, emotions were running high - it's not unexpected for ppl to be saying shit like that, especially given how young and immature some of the crypto community is. They're acting like these types of comments don't happen all the time in gaming like counterstrike, Xbox Live or league of legends....
They just used it to further paint Karel and crypto as the villain. -
Since the beginning of the entry of new investors to the project, they have worked against cryptocurrencies, they are like a closed group that does not want anyone -
To be fair. they shouldn't happen at all. Death threats in general should not be normalized.
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No one is trying to normalize it. What the discord did though was WEAPONIZE it against Karel.
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like the Neos discord lol
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it's funny how fast Karel became a modern day slaver, monster abuser criminal mastermind
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You said it clearly wasn't credible and that it happens all the time. that's normalizing the action. It shouldn't be used against Karel I agree since he didn't make the threat.
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fair enough. i'm just trying to put the comments in proper context.
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I want death threats to go away because I get tired of it always getting used politically, "I'm getting death threats now for standing up for my beliefs!" etc.
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I think I kind of understand the use of NCR now but it really wasn't as transformative as I hoped it was.
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I hope things go to court because I don't expect any understanding between them
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Feel the love. ;)
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lawyers probably told him to finally shut up, which is for the best (and also a likely indication that things are getting serious on the legal front)
- 13 March 2022 (219 messages)
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I look forward to some good news soon. -
I think karel and froox will come to an agreement somehow. Failure to reach an agreement is to destroy both. That possibility is very low. they are not idiots
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I agree with you. However, he will know that it is legally impossible to continue neosvr alone without an agreement with karel.
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The team is very irresponsible and stupid, but they too will know that it is absolutely impossible to get rid of ncr without compromising with karel.
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I think now the situation is that they will do anything to get rid of karel. However, the vision of froox and the team seems to be different. The team members want to build their own castle because they are extremely selfish and closed, but I think froox will at least make a realistic compromise to keep neosvr going.
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As far as I know, the team members have no stake in the company. They have only one option: to stay or leave the company after karel and froox agree. Now it looks like froox and his teammates are a team, but eventually team members will do the same to froox after karel is eliminated.
I feel sorry for froox, who believes that the team members will be his team forever. -
Dev team seem ready to kick everything for their own benefit at any time.Looking at the situation now, it is understandable.
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After karel and froox reached an agreement, they sincerely apologize to ncr investors and take measures to prevent a recurrence. Also, team members who internally led the strike should be fired. Then, everyone will have a convincing result, and neosvr will have a chance to get help from outside. Otherwise, they will always be hungry, trying to survive on their own from their fallen reputation.
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There will be team members who are reluctantly joined by those who lead the strike. It may be too late now, but I believe neosvr will have a chance to revive once the cancerous mass that drives the strike is cut off. I hope froox wakes up from the dream to face reality and get things right now.
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They all should not occur regardless imo. It's never an appropriate response whether credible or not.
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That they should never get a death threat?
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What situation IS it appropriate to threaten someone with death?
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ah ok.
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I was about to go on a tirade there. :p
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no worries. :)
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Yeah I'm not upset at people who have to say they've had death threats. I'm sad that they are put in the position where that's something that has to occur. I'm extremely anti death threats.
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threatening someone's life over money is not normal. Don't normalize death threats.
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There is no reason to accept death threats as normal. Pretending it's acceptable is bad.
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I hope however the neos stuff moves forward it's not with people who feel it's ever appropriate to justify allowing death threats.
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I can't. To understand why someone would fall that low is to accept that it will happen and that will allow it to continue because you're accepting it which leads to normalization. You should be clear that it should not happen and is not acceptable.
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So... in your mind, the people who are openly and actively trying to get rid of Karel and NCR... bear no responsibility for the current situation with NCR? Is that really what you are saying?
You really drank the furry Kool aid didn't you. -
I still don't understand fully other than selling minted NCR as a round of funding (which higher ncr value means more funding through sales from the ICO wallet) what the long term monetization plan is. When I thought it was a asset verification system as well as a transaction base I thought I got it. But apparently that's not it. It sounds like the only way to recover ncr to sell it again to continue the monetization is through transaction fees in world and charging ncr for services?
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Or is it really just that simple and I'm over thinking it?
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Ya, its that simple. Primary monetization I expect would be from transaction fees. This isn't a minor thing given enough volume. Look at how much opensea makes from NFT sales or brokers/exchanges in stock market.
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Fair enough. I'll stop trying to make it more complicated than it is. :p
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I was hoping it would leverage something similar to the NFT for asset verification but that's apparently a "future ncr" problem so isn't really something worth considering until they start discussions on what that system would actually look like.
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This could also be another utility/value case for NCR (which hasn't been suggested yet by Karel). You could distribute a percentage of those fees to NCR stakers, which would incentivize holding the token apart from just speculation.
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Not sure why you would need NFTs to be on the NCR blockchain itself instead of a more widely used and efficient chain. It also wouldn't result in much value accrual to NCR itself without some significant changes to the coin operability.
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Could actually see some value to that in porn/adult content 🤔
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I'm trying to justify NCR over other tokens since the followed insistence that it's the basis for the system. Having asset verification of ownership in the Blockchain allows for first right of sale doctrine to take effect as I now own said asset and can give or sell it to someone else, unlike current digital assets which are more like license for use than ownership.
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I'm not hearing a lot of people actually churning the NCR back through the digital economy in game either. I've heard the random story of people jokingly paying for a meme or people paying for storage. But mostly I hear people sitting on it or selling it like a stock instead of spending it to replenish the neos wallet. Which doesn't really help the economy of NCR move. Especially given the scale that needs to occur given the simple monetization method.
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Not sure what you mean by replenish the neos wallet. Once NCR is distributed, that's in the user economy. Otherwise, Solirax the company itself has a large NCR treasury that would obviously gain in value along with NCR.
And monetization of fees isn't dependent on NCR. In fact, one of the originally proposed utility functions of the token was that the fees would apply to fiat transactions, while NCR had zero fees.
Neos is no doubt far away from any serious monetization given that there is no marketplace and the user base is tiny. Which is why many of us have been asking for better UX design and marketing. -
What happens when their treasury runs out? If you're not renewing it. then it is a one time investment distributed over time. That's not really a great monetization method. That's just hoping you chose a big enough number that you die first. Which is bad from a corporate perspective.
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Ya, NCR is the initial funding for the project, that's how ICOs work (and IPOs for stocks). The goal would be to develop a revenue generating and self sufficient business using the funding. Monetization (eg, through fees) is different from funding.
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So then I'm confused as to why it's the required asset if it's just looking like a failed ipo.
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Because if it's just a series of funding that's failed because the stock crashed, then real asset is actually the frooxengine?
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Dude I don't even know what you're trying to say or ask anymore. I feel like you're making everything overly complicated.
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I'm confused too. I'm trying to figure out how NCR as a whole is a long term benefit to the company if it's not a source or a planned source of recurring revenue. I thought it was through skimming off the currency to resell repeatedly as people used it as currency in the game, which IMO is a great idea as long as there's enough people doing it. But that's not it. I thought it was maybe to be used as a digital asset management/verification system where they could skim transaction fees via ncr to resell again into the market, which again would be a great method at scale. but that's not it. If it really is just the equivalent of series A funding that failed and people didn't get out at the buy back, how do you build a company with that as the basis? Where's the future and continued monetization? It feels like everything is actually resting on neosvr actually finding a way to monetize itself and they were hoping for short term gain through what's been widely accepted as a super volatile market. And everyone seems upset because the volatile market did what volatile markets do, skyrocket or bust. I'm really even more confused now than I was before I tried to understand what's actually going on because it all kind of looks like a scam at this point. :p
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This is definitely my first trip into crypto world. :)
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So I'm trying hard to understand with the knowledge I have. :)
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For me the big draw of grand ideas with crypto and the blockchain is full auditability and that's why I was drawn to the idea of using it as asset management/verification.
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I guess the downside would be the potential of everyone knowing that I bought questionable stuff from adam and eve's virtual world. ;p
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To Karel
I would like to know the progress of your agreement with froox.
I was told the other day that you will be using a professional moderator. Are you currently negotiating with froox with a mediator? And any other news? The more your update is delayed, the more anxious ncr holders become. It would be appreciated if you could simply say hello. Don't forget that you are only hope in a dying project. I am holding ncr so far because I believe in you. -
I'm trying to do the research. I figured the people who want it to increase would be the best place. Is that not the case?
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I assumed being able to explain how it's beneficial would be the best way to encourage investment and increase the value.
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So questioning is FUD?
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How?
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That's an interesting take.
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I didn't think I was causing any kind of fear uncertainty or doubt in questioning how it works to better neos? Which is my personal ultimate goal. I'd think encouraging understanding how it works would drive to better stability.
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Blind hype doesn't help anything -
I asked about the decentralized part earlier. I've voted libertarian most of my life I believe strongly in a lot of the ideals. But is seems forcing a project to a single currency is antithetical to that mentality?
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These are the things that need to be cleared up to remove doubt would it not?
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I do own NCR. I've been a patreon until this month.
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I've seen a lot of people saying the NCR has to be fully integrated with neosVR (which I can understand from a 'make me money' standpoint but not a 'best option for the company' option). But forcing it as the only option is not really living up to the decentralized theme from a company standpoint. Of course with newer understanding that NCR is not meant to be a recurring source of income but just a pure investment angle I don't see why it needs to be integrated into the platform as the only option just set as the primary form of interaction for in game currency and making other options available but more difficult to use in order to help spur on it's growth.
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OK so they said that it was only being used as a funding tool earlier. How does the blockchain assist? I'm wondering if you're seeing it more the way I initially saw it?
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You're honestly sounding more like my original understanding which had me initially excited.
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Yeah I'm looking for more the big picture idea. I understand it's not there yet.
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My initial thoughts were using it as a recurring monetary mechanism by taking cuts in in game transactions to allow for reselling of the NCR for cash infusions if needed and potentially using it for asset verification and management to allow for proven ownership of digital assets that allow for resell and potential export to other systems with verification that I'm allowed to use it.
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But was told that wasn't it at all.
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So I've been struggling to understand.
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Do you have suggested books?
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or a wiki that has your take on things? I'm happy to review and read them.
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So I'm trying to look down the road past the current obstruction to see the end goal. I know there are disputes between karel and the dev team and the direction.
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I feel like one side is too caught up in the weeds and the other is too high in the clouds. I'm trying to see the actual functional middleground and how that works.
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Don't listen to En you're not spreading FUD and you're welcome here. At this point I'm 90% positive En is a 🐍 here to cause shit
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I agree. One of my concerns was the fact that two people having a dispute could cause such a disruption.
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Thanks. :) I was concerned I'd come off the wrong way earlier. I'm definitely not trying to cause problems.
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I'm about finding a balance. We can't have lawlessness but we also can't hand over total control.
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None -
I am also sad that Reactant has gone and if this was his experience within the community then I fully understand. It's not only bad PR for Neos but also his individual experience matters - because the community consists of individuals and we cannot ignore that in the future. The key is going to be opening up Neos to broader user base and also making sure that we have means of regulating behaviour that is harming or disturbing others. Freedom of one ends when freedom of someone else starts. Harrasment has no place in Neos. It is a nature of online communities unfortunatelly - people don't always realise that behind every avatar is a real person with real feelings. But I'd like to think that if we make diversity and inlusion part of our mission and we will be proactive about it, the chance of something like that, experience that happened to Reactant, will be much lower. -
There is no use to hold grudges. I came in a difficult time and I was aware of that it would not be all rainbows and unicorns. It is very unfortunate that the team was, and still is, in such a rigid mindset about the past issues as I really think that with some of the changes we have proposed when I joined - project management implementation, better work-life balance, clarity over team responsibilities etc etc, we could have gradually shift towards much more positive space. I really would have done anything to make sure people were happy.
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But it is what it is and ultimatelly we have to go upwards and onwards. Work with what we have and think pragmatically. Learn from our mistakes, all that jazz:)
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Neos is amazing platform with a great potential - not just where NCR is concerned. It has so much more to offer than all the current "wannabe-metaverses" that it would be almost insane to ignore that. If there is at least one person that can see that what we are doing here makes sense then it's worth it.
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Decentralisation is going to be more and more important in the future. This is only my opinion but - considering what is happening in the world right now - the Russia-Ukraine conflict, and you might not watch it so closely as us in Czech, because we are so much closer and we see the results of it on a daily basis, but seeing a country enforcing censorship and restriction of internet and freedom of expression is very scary. Seeing big tech platforms harvesting people's personal data is also scary. What people do in their free time in Neos or elsewhere is their personal and often a very intimate thing. We have to try and protect it on as many levels as possible.
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I am so sorry to hear that. This is always heartbreaking - doesn't matter about where it takes place, dictatorship and henious government actions like that is always horrible and everyone who has to go through an experience like that has my utmost respect and sympathy.
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All the more reasons to aspire and make it. Be the change you want to see as they say.
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💯agree
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Would froox likely get half the usdc and ncr in a split? -
Cause froox having half karels ncr would be impossible for ncr to move forward with the risk of him mass dumping and attempting to nuke the price
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all crypto’s have that disclaimer
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the teams just don’t do what neos did lmao
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Yeah majority crypto Bros came from stocks
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