No I am saying that people need to recieve back proportionate rewards to the value that they contribute.

Mac donalds earns $23 billion per year, they have approximately 200,000 workers. That amounts to an additional $5,750 per year.

I'm not sure how proportionate is but that has a semblance of being proportionate to the value they contribute when that would be $67,000 per year for apple workers

Taken from 20% cut of profits

No I'm saying if you took 20% of their revenue per year, and distributed it among all the workers, that would be enough to pay them an additional $5,750 per year

What is your source?

the redistribution of big macs will prove useful for NCR

Oh

Well I'm sure there is a way to have a system where people get back value proportionate to the value that they put in, in the form of their works, and in the form of their products.

Allowing employees to have a partial share in the company as a benefit of their employment would be a piece of the puzzle I think

But how does that amount to a proportionate reward for the creator of a product that is considered valuable? Something which did not exist, which now exists because they gave the world one of the most valuable things you can give a civilisation. An Idea. One that was made to happen by the one who conceived of it?

The labor theory of value sort of breaks down once you incorporate automation. Marx did sort of address this in his Fragment on Machines. What is the value of individual contribution on top of the fixture of General Intelligence embodied by the automation of capital?

Except for the products which we now use every day which have to have been brought into existence by someone.

Rarely are their ideas unique. But sometimes they are.

I don't want disproportionate wealth I want proportionate wealth. Workers should earn more of course. And perhaps 20% of a company ownership be split among them, but you still have to give credit (and money) to the people who do bring into existence things we use every day that we wouldn't have without them, or at least would be delayed by a few decades.

As well as the scientists who earn the same as any other worker but are the ones causing the progress of our civilisation and making all the technology which we use, possible.

A scientist who creates something which later becomes a common household item should make as much as a CEO gets from their share of company profits.

And that is where creators have the advantage.

As things become more automated, then you can have collectives where everything practically runs itself and produces generic resources gobbled up by the industries where humans still fill the role of creators.

Profits also because profits could be used, if done the right way, as a metric for measuring how much society values their contribution.

150,000 workers, 20% of revenue = $67,000 per year on top of their normal paychecks. Assuming they make $60,000 per year already, that amounts to almost as much as the average CTO

If i make a subroutine in some peice of code 20% faster, should i be attributed to 20% of the estimated profit generated by the rutine across all installations? I didn't make the machines, and my contribution is infinitely reproducible. Just as a scientific discovery is. What value do my efforts in particular have in the equation? (To be clear, these are just examples of the difficulty of trying to figure out economic value once automation is involved)

You never stop needing to do more self-study

But this is more the conceptualisation of political ideas that amount to a fair system where people get a fair amount of value back according to what they put in.

In the idea of a self regulating market where the authority falls into the hands of the consumer, as well as partially to competitors, then profits loosely can translate into a loose metric of how much society values their contribution.

It can always be abused but if consumers are given enough power, then they will not stand for being abused and a corporation will be forced to treat their customers fairly.

The framwork for that does not exist yet and needs a lot of work put into making it work in practice the way it does in theory. As the reality will likely be very different and not actually work without some adjustments.

I do like worker co-ops though.

US?

The idea is sound though for businesses backed by an owner who is an inventor, the inventor should still get at least 51%

I know but it's constructive discussion

Only if I am an inventor and I am the one responsible for the product. Giving 49% to the workers is still a better deal than they already get.

Trolls spamming chat

Yes, indeed, which is why they should recieve 51% of what their work amounts to

or more

I'm just speculating, these aren't exact numbers

But without an inventor, a thing does not exist.

If we are talking about generic resources which are not new or different or some generic version of something useful, then yes, 100% of ownership to the workers by all means.

No they are not, governance is actually quite hard if you want to preserve the flat structure as you grow and they require a lot of careful planning on the bylaws from the get-go. I did a moderate amount of research on various charters for them when I was (feel free to laugh) researching possible governance models for a fantasy LARP company :P

And what do you do about inventors who produce their creations and operate large companies to mass produce those creations, but they put in the work designing, building prototypes, testing, managing, etc.

Without them the thing does not exist.

Look at Nikola Tesla, he was a great inventor, and he should have recieved more, because without him, we would not have wifi, we would still be using DC electricity, we would not have efficient hydroelectric generators, list goes on.

What if he successfully ran a megacorporation across multiple countries to share his creations. How much do the workers get? How much does he get?

I will take a look

He did and that was his mistake because he never got to realize his dream because JP morgan decided they didn't like what he was doing and cut off his funding and tried to blackball him with other investors so no one would invest in him.

If he had an efficient business model, he could have invested in himself. We'd be using technology not due till next century, right now.

If they aren't doing those things then they're doing it wrong.

yet, would the workers be able to build those products, if the inventor didn't exist? Would they be able to sell those products if there weren't merchants and distribution? Would they be able to coordinate creating something larger than a single person can handle, if there weren't managers?

Maybe if doing their fair share of the labour should be a requirement for recieving the lion's share. To get the lion's share, you do your fair share.

I'm just talking concepts here, so not an exact number

I'd argue not much of a difference to be honest. I don't believe the profit motive does much (edit: to clarify, does much 'To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts') , and I'm generally of the opinion that individual excellence is mostly circumstance and standing on the shoulders of giants. I will keep doing what I'm curious about as long as I am able. It's why I am a dorky amateur radio operator, why I put everything I can under the cc0 or MIT licence and why i genuinely hope you end up enjoying your experiments with business structure and strategies. Intrinsic motivation is how I construct meaning, and how I assume other people do as well. Not to discount the social process within that, but still.

Not necessarily. I pulled that figure out of nowhere. I believe they should have over 51% of control over the direction of the company

And should recieve a proportionately larger share of the profits than the rest of the company.

That figure may not be 51%

But it should be the largest portion.

I just know that personally, when I run my own business, I'm taking only from the pool of profits what I need, and distributing whatever does not go to the workers into growing the business and making bigger and better things as well as engaging in a number of charitable operations. The only real use I have for money beyond travel, improving health, having a space to call my home, having good food and the ability to explore the world and enjoy every piece of what is has to offer... (which would amount to nowhere near the amount a lot of people take for themselves)

...Is in funding my addition to creativity, and funding my ambitions to grow as far as I can grow and make everything I want to make.

No way in hell I'm not participating in the labour. That's the fun part! Actually making the things.

If frooxius were the only creator, yes, but there are other inventors who each contributed their own piece to Neos.

If a worker were to contribute some of their own piece of creativity towards a product, then yes, they should share the lion's share with the other Inventors.

51% is only for if the idea is the sole creation of only one Inventor. People should of course recieve a portion of ownership DIRECTLY proportionate to the exact percentage of a creation that came from them.

In which case you end up with a collective of Inventors all contributing towards a shared goal. Which I fully support 100%

I suppose that really boils down to how we define creative work XD

Yes, and Karel, being 100% responsible for NCR, and someone who was part of the Neos Team, should have 100% of the control over how it is used within the platform and how it is implemented.

Where be thy deamons and genius at work within the world.

I am the one who was talking about a system where people recieve proportionate rewards to the work they contribute so yes I absolutely will make sure my workers recieve a large chunk of the revenue.

So long as 60% goes towards growing the company we all share and producing bigger and better products and improving on them.

They are owed what was outlined in the roadmap for NCR. So they have a say in the team's obligation to fulfil the expectations that they created.

The whitepaper gave a plan for what they intended to do with NCR. Abandoning it is neglecting their obligations to NCR holders who bought it in the expectation that it would be utilised within the platform.

They should have no say in internal management, they should have a say in whether or not NCR is implemented in the platform.

Perhaps this can be solved by applying a bundle theory, or family resemblance criteria. After all, few people would argue the MTC isnt neos, given how it's central to quite a few points of criticism XD

Changing the payment system to a different one, and moving NCR to be a 3rd party solution that is karel's job and no responsibility of anyone else might as well be abandoning it. NCR is something that needs to be used so you can't just have it as an option on top of an entirely different infrastructure.

They can do whatever they want to with Neos. They just need to impliment NCR in either the way that it was said it would be, or in a way that is even better. The rest is no business of NCR holders. The only thing that matters in regards to NCR holders is giving them what they paid for. Which was not the token. But the way in which is was to be used. As a 1st party feature.

So... what stops NCR being a first class citizen in Neos, while NCR also being managed by a 3rd party?

Beyond that yes they should ideally have a proportionate level of ownership to how much of it they were responsible for creating.

I don't think anyone really has any legitimate argument to say that the major creator of Neos is Frooxius. He put in the Ideas and the work.

Nothing, so long as it is the primary means of commerce within Neos.

I think that's the plan

It's the impression frooxius created when he said that it would be a 3rd party solution and all the talk was going on in the discord on using FIAT instead.

Although no one directly said that this would be the case.

I think for right now, what NCR holders are owed, is a statement saying that it is the intention of the team that NCR be used in the platform in close to or exactly the same way as they said it would be. They just intend for it to be taken care of by karel, but will not be replaced by anything different in the short term, they should state that there may be upgrades further down the track, that is between karel and the team, but that it is intended to be implimented in the way they said it will be before anything else such as potential upgrade to a PoS chain or something else.

They need to reinforce that what was told would be the case, is still going to be the case. As the PRIMARY means of conducting commerce within Neos.

So long as the above is true, that is more than fair.

I guess that was not well phrased then

I also thought that making NCR a 3rd party solution would just make NCR obsolete as it'd open competition that it cannot do

I mean, i do get the specific concern on this point. If NCR is sharing a similar level of integration with other payment methods. It can't reasonably compete with say, PayPal.

But that is not what was meant by making it a 3rd party thing... at least that's what I hope it doesn't mean

The value of NCR comes from its proprietary tether to the Neos platform.

Yes which is why it needs to be the primary system. Until such a time at least as a transition to something better can be made smoothly in a way that protects investor's funds.

and that's something that seems to hold up

it seem the plans are to be the primary system (and only system besides KFC as a testing currency) and the handling of all duties around NCR outside the "game" being done by a 3rd party

Then they need to state that clearly and re-assure people that it is not being replaced.

probably a thing, if that's really a misunderstanding, state it in a different lingo as what are actually the plans for the future of NCR

however don't take what I say as a source to what is really happening to NCR, as I don't know actually. This is more or less guesses of my own

Once that is done, the only problems with NCR are people with weak hands who panic-sold. NCR can and will make the necessary recovery to clean up economic damages in legally grey waters should it be implimented as promised. whether it is 3rd party or not.

any ideas how to recover from this?

how can you make people hold onto NCR. How can the value of NCR rise in a healthy and steady way without fluctuations?

The issue is, NCR has a hard cap, that makes it deflationary if the market grows

it is less of a question if that is wanted. It is more a question of how to have a steady increase that is still healthy to the currency itself

Many here and especially on the Neos team aren't market people and they have many misconceptions about how a healthy market conducts itself

The statement to re-assure NCR holders is going to be a massively major step in that recovery. Along with the actual implimentation.

You can't make people hold NCR but the selling was a result of panic. Clean up the panic and you open the road to recovery.

Further recovery would be entirely dependant on discussions with Karel, the team, and those with the Ideas on how to improve the usability of NCR.

It does have a hard cap, but you can always rebase it, where you add an extra 0 on the end of the hard cap and also on the end of people's NCR balance, and revalue it at 10% of what it was, no one loses anything, they still have 100% of what they had before. Each individual NCR is worth 10% of what it was but they have 10x the NCR they did before.

One way to create a steady increase is through tying staking to something functional, like I suggested with advertising, it does not have to be advertising but offering users incentive to stake their NCR and giving people a reason to purchase NCR in order to stake it gives you that steady incline.

Perhaps staking could replace Neos Pro which was apparently removed?

Just one possibility off the top of my head.

don't make it rise too quickly or people won't use it

Staking shouldn't have that effect unless it creates FOMO or in any way creates a sense of urgency.

I don't think that staking would work, people prefer to have it available to drop at the next perceived ATH

With some methods of staking, you can un-stake it at any time, it's just that you instantly lose the benefits of staking it if you unstake it

there is no point in staking, when you can un-stake it at any time

I think more that people need to just accept market fluctuations as a fact of life... people still conduct business with BTC regularly.

I think attempts at controlling the price will usually fail

There is if you recieve X amount of benefits if you have Y amount staked, and Z amount of benefits if you have W amount staked.

But, if staking is a means to prevent sudden sales happening, then it is counter productive to be able to un-stake the amounts at any time. As you actually want to prevent people selling at the worst time

If you make one of those benefits something people need to maintain, then you will get people who will buy it just to stake it and aren't going to be motivated to let go when they probably don't actually care about the price of it, only that they recieve the benefits.

To an extent. It's a careful balancing act.

You could do it the inverse way and have the benefits slowly accumulate if you keep it staked, and need to be re-accumulated if you pull out and want to go back in.

My favorate emojo, out of phase eu dreamcast logo.

However, if un-staking needs a fixed time to be processed, I'd say like 14 days, that'd maybe help. As after 14 days things look quite differently

Staking normally locks coins for long times

that's the point of staking

I will not stake

There is locked staking and there is the other kind of staking normally done via exchanges but the returns on that are generally less.

Many smart traders will not with me

That isn't necessarily a bad thing though. And people who want to buy things will buy and use NCR anyway. Directly or indirectly with fiat on the marketplace

With small coin staking is often not good

You do run the risk of discouraging people from staking if they sense a risk from committing to that. The inverse method where benefits slowly accumulate up to a limit determined by the amount staked, might be a better option.

I am curious if anyone has experimented with a token that modulates its own supply in order to maintain specific rates of network churn.

what is the risk? I see the risk in high volatility, especially as a merchant, if you receive your NCR in the worst moment and have to pay income taxes on it

That's an interesting thought.

Lots risk

exactly

If staked NCR I couldn't sell at 9

I'd be interested in how that is even possible, how would the sources and sinks work in an automated way? What would be backing the value?

If I got even 100 percent return yearly for stake I still would lose option to sell and would lose tons of monies

And that's why staking isn't the solution to fix the issues of the high volatility

fear of missing out the next all time high, because your tokens are locked in staking

True, though the same incentive to keep tokens staked could be achieved by the slow accumulation method. People do not like waiting. So two things are factors here.

1. People hate waiting, the first time you stake, the waiting time should perhaps be waived.
1a. People hate waiting, also a good reason to perhaps avoid a long wait time before tokens can be unstaked.
2. People hate waiting so if you are goin to make them wait to recieve benefits if they unstake their tokens, there is a strong psychological factor there driving them away from doing that.

Pull out at any time but wait for benefits to accumulate if you want to stake again after pulling out.

If you waive waiting time the first time that also rewards loyalty

User doesn't understand crypto

I know, it gets people to stake, but the tokens won't be locked. Locking the tokens is the means to counter fluctuations on the market. Therefore un-staking has to take a while

They can be forcibly locked or you can create psychological incentive for users to self impose locking them down. Perhaps even have a button where users can choose to lock their tokens down so they can't touch them. Doubt that will be a commonly used feature but the fact it is there means someone is gonna use it.

And that time has to be as long, so you'll miss out on a peak fluctuation, that you are unable to sell that high

but staking needs to prevent people from selling at fluctuations, that's the whole point. But no one will stake then, if they expect fluctuations to happen to pump and dump

So yeah, staking sounds like a solution, but it doesn't help, as when it is supposed to be effective, people won't use it

My initial thought would just be that it monitors the number of transactions as a percentage of coin supply, then modulates the block validation rewards depending on the activity. High rates of stationary coins would result in inflation, abnormally high rates of expenditure would result in deflation. I'm mostly just curious if anyone has done something like it. It seems like at least an interesting experiment in designing adaptive systems.

As long as it prevents the next peak and also prevents people to sell off their coins, should a peak happen

There are many people who don't actually care about fluctuations. They are there for the benefits and for the long term outlook. Fact is that having the staking for benefits option there, and making users wait to recieve benefits as they slowly accumulate the next time they stake if they decide to chicken out, will have a stabilising effect. It might be less or it might be more than if staking was imposed forciblly. It could be more due to the fact that forcing users tokens to be locked down if they are staked, is going to make people not want to stake.

it shouldn't be possible to chicken out. Or even if, they should still have to pay some price for un-staking, like having to wait for 7 or 14 days for the tokens to be unlocked

Lots of investors in both stocks and crypto are the type who don't pay too much close attention to short term fluctuations if there is a long term outlook that they think will be to a higher percentage increase than the level of fluctuations.

7 might be reasonable, but I still think that the psychological push from not wanting to wait is both a reason to not stake if the tokens are locked, and a reason to not un-stake if they are going to have to wait for the benefits they are there for in the first place.

like, this is a question about, how to make the speculative short term gains game unattractive

Not sure! Markets are complex beasts. I really do mean I'm interested in it in terms of just curiosity XD such a system would be a genuinely interesting experiment.

Yes and the reality of crypto as well as stocks and even fiat (local currency tends to swing quite a bit vs the US dollar) is that there are going to be ups and downs. What matters is that you are able to maintain higher highs and lower lows as a longer term trend at a stable rate that is not going to create a bubble.

Here within the country, nobody is concerned whether or not our currency is doing well vs the US dollar when they are buying everything locally anyway more often than not. You still pay the same amount for what you buy as you always do and sometimes you'll be paying more in USD sometimes less, but it is an internal currency, and NCR could create a similar environment and give an isolated sense to it that keeps people from paying attention to trivial short term fluctuations.

Of course it IS crypto. So it is a little bit more volatile but can also be stabilised to the extent where that is a non-issue.

For more than a year bitcoin has fluctuated to the same level the local currency does, but that is mainly due to institutional investors who do not care about short term fluctuations and are in it for the long haul or as a hedge against inflation.

Sometimes my dollar is almost worth a whole US dollar. Sometimes it's worth almost half. It happens.

That is the kind of fluctuation margin that needs to be aimed for.

I just love it when the FED making an announcement halves my money :V

...Fuck buying things from overseas you can't get here sometimes...

One of the benefits of crypto, is that it can go up, on a bumpy and eratic but sure incline. Unfortunate when that means I have 25% of the money I had but when a token keeps having higher highs and higher lows, that doesn't matter quite as much because I will have more later.

that's the economy, is does not actually stand still, it just feels like it does, but that is an illusion, it is always in motion

So maybe they should try making it feel stable in the same way where our local economy feels stable BUT IT IS NOT

closer to 50% for ours vs the USD

A small Island in the Pacific

Yeah that's not nice. I feel like most of the world is in that predicament right now.

Seriously. Rethink your life.

Hooboy, Gods save us the day Aliens turn up and meet someone like this.

Nonhuman eyes of superior intelligence out there in the night sky among the billions and trillions of stars. Watching us. Part of their night sky that they will innevitably touch.

Maybe tomorrow, maybe in centuries.

And then there are people like this.

Yes I always respond to toxicity with greater toxicity it is such a great solution to all the world's problems.

Yeah and how is that going to work out for you financially? Good luck saving a useless token with no platform to draw any intrinsic value from. I can see you have a degree in economics!

Andrea

You give warnings before this user troll

Please remove

Arn't you just a cute lil cockroach, ever get tired of trolling and flaming for many months in a row?

I do not like fur get wrong idea of ncr holder from trolls like this!!!!

Ban every account! Andrea Karel

We definitely need to all try de-escalation because the toxicity on every side is getting out of hand.

Huh, been a while since I saw this sort of 7 proxies-esk flex. Feels a bit nostalgic?

Andrea Karel

So what, all furries are some kind of conspiratorial hive mind that all have the same opinions and viewpoints and all act as one unit to carry out some sort of secret cult agenda?

You don't think maybe that everyone is different and having one thing in common does not mean that they all have the same opinions?

At least there are still plenty of people here who can maintain good vibes despite disagreements

You have been outed as a troll

Please do something else

He is troll

He was to be exposed into 20 sex chats

Most renters insurance here in Florida maxes at 15k USD in coverage. Given this was Firr's workshop... yeah, i can believe 25k USD in damages. Plus he itemized the claim, so, you can check if you're worried XD

the loudest, angriest voices in this controversy use neos for vr sex

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at the fact you're saying this yet also share like 20 nsfw groups with me.

HAHAHA i mean.................. takes one to know one 😘

holy shit we actually share 22 groups what the hell???

Oh hecc it's a conspirimacy!

Forget the shapeshifting draco reptilian cabal lead by zucc the cuccerberg! It's all the FURRILUMMINATI!!!

Everyone run!

Ignore squiggle line he is sex fiend troll

Oh hecc I see you are in the Altcoin Furries group, forgive me my Furryluminati brother, let us make the secret triangle together, but don't tell anyone! ✋🔺🤚

u h o h

Troll

Be gay do crimes?

Dogecoin to the mooon!!! ✋🔺🤚 🚀🚀🚀

It did, but then I did not sell it :V

Thank you though, I think I will sell half when it goes up again, can't deal with this.

At least I sold a bunch of Luna 😎

The what?

Think it will still be a thing if the token price bumps up a few dollars?

That's not realistic, it would have been somewhere between $4 and $12

It already halved before any furries did anything. But it might have reached $20 by the end of the year.

Now, maybe it will reach $6 by the end of the year

Just gut numbers there

Except for the thing where the value halved before the drama started

Wishing I was involved in that x.x

I'd hope to be able to make sure an agreement is reached that works best for everyone, which is an out of character level of idealism for me.

I just need this to go well. So much potential in both Neos and NCR

This could be the platform of the future if done right.

A make or break player in the evolution of the Metaverse

Don't suppose anyone arguing in here wants to settle this in Beatsaber with me?

1v1 what's up?

Mental instability

Me? Just not afraid to hide the fact that I'm human

Keep posting

You post for 6 hours

Writing me a book

Ah thank you, be sure to send me a nice cut of the royalties, will be a huge help!

You writing it!

Keep posting

You say you stop

Waste of time

Can you rephrase that please?

But you keep going

It was a dark and stormy night, trouble brewed within Neos...

That's all I got :V

You see this

He won't stop posting ever

It would have been slowed significantly due to the fact the trade price was below the minting price

You're still here? Fight me in beatsaber.

You give a shit about VR at all or is it just a token to you built on technology that means nothing to you?

True VR fanboy can back up his words with his sabers. Let's go.

I will do everything in my power to give the token a chance of success. They said they welcomed third party involvement? I'll give them a use case with or without their help.

Some people have too much money to burn. For the price of the cheapest land in decentraland I could buy myself a new server and start my own headless client in Neos where I can create my own world as big as I want and have it running 24/7 for people to enjoy.

Some real powerful computer hardware. Motherboard with 2 CPU slots, an intel Xeon, 128 gigs of RAM. Shove my GPU in there and I can do anything I want.

Sadly I don't have that kind of money.

Prove it, fight me in beatsaber.

Worth a shot

I understand what happened and I'm not condoning it, I don't think it had anything to do with being furry. The situation is not over however and recovery is still possible.

Good game

It just requires some adaptation to the way the situation develops. I will personally put my own effort into this and create use cases for it within Neos.

I have that 😈

Not going to give financial advice pertaining to personal investment decisions. If you have some already, keep it, otherwise, not much can be said until we have more information.

Hardware like that not needed to create a headless. You lack skill to make good server

I am aware that it is not needed but it is what I could get for the cost of the cheapest land in decentraland.

So many headless servers

Hardware like this worth less than 1000 dollar

Uneducated

Lucky you, in this country everything costs double. Not even accounting for the exchange rate.

A quest 2 will set you back $800 here

$600 in USD

Isolated island in the middle of nowhere, supply chain to get stuff like that here is fucked.

Are you asking for a world like that in Neos? I could do that, could even play around with the logix a bit and try to give it a little more function.

You mean the Quest link one, or something else?

PM me and we can plan it out 😊

None

I just joined Telegram. What are you discussing in here? Mostly NCR?

Some troll users spamming nonsense like aliens

I tag CEO many times but he doesn't kick trolls

Rtx 2080, still terrible. CPU bottleneck

Been discussing a lot of the tokenomics and creating suggestions for how to improve the usability of the token, give it more applications, and suggesting solutions that would help with team management. Etc.

A lot of various topics in here and plenty of constructive discussion and unfortunately a few trolls but best to just ignore them.

i7-7700k, OC to 4.9Ghz

I don't think your CPU is the issue.

Specifically your own message

Or your GPU. I ran it fine on an RX570 and a ryzen 5, 3500

Yeah, the performance drops after roughly 10 or so people in a world. I have checked the system to see which is being heavily worked and every single time it's always the CPU , with the GPU barely doing anything

That's not normal, that CPU should be more than enough

Are you low on storage space? How is your RAM?

None

That really shows you how much you actually understand how systems work. Geenz is working on the graphical system, which would be dictated by mostly the GPU, not the CPU. Some events are still CPU bound, but that's not specifically the issue here.

Lovely...

...yup, they are one bundle of joy... helps that I actually worked on another platform, but most I did there was technical support, bug fixes, and user experience improvements... and exploit hunting

who said I was IT? I have an actual background working with a blockchain metaverse engine, actively coded for it, and provided support for people, all at the same time. What did you do to contribute towards anything?

I need more coffee for this.

I'm a tea person, but indeed, same mutual feeling

anyway, upgrading my system will mean better compiling time. Going to be dope and means my older rig can be used to act as a backup system or just a major upgrade for my homelab server.

eh... it's fine. Back when I did work for the other platform, I compiled the source and all its needed libraries on a Raspberry Pi. Natively. It took 3 days, but it ran the server code for virtual estate hosting rather well.

Yeah, Qt outright responded back saying "Please don't do that, it will take forever." Joke's on them: I did it anyway and it worked fine. This was BEFORE the quad core ones came out

yup. That Pi still works, and that thing was tortured. It was my first one I tested all projects with: initial Linux learning, server controller (for remote management), controlling my ant miners (with a color display to boot), recompiling cgminer and another flavor miner so the terrible GPU on it could mine Doge at the speed of a snail, and then became the heart of natively compiling a metaverse server system and its libraries. It spent a majority of its life being blockchain involved to the core.

2014 mining baby. Was the life.

now it's not doing much. Retired it to being a network wide ad-blocker, but now my primary server handles that. Going to most likely keep it being the heart of the network by having it monitor all services and notify me if something is wrong.

Imagine proof of green energy where instead of outdated systems intended only as a proof of concept for the potential of blockchain technology, you collected fees by putting energy, green energy I might add, IN TO the system :^)

You still need to validate the ledger somehow of course but there are ways of doing that which can work. Proof of Authority has been tried for that purpose, exactly that purpose in fact. Totally decentralised energy grid. Peer to peer, no power company required. Unfortunately, proof of authority kind of undermines the whole decentralised thing. There's probably a better way.

would be kind of neat if the mining nodes could prove their source of energy. I have a solar regulator that could power some of my Pi projects.

then I guess the pools would all report back what is the overall power source type

imagine yourself a shower

They call me the shower because I make it rain! 😎

Damn I had the perfect gif but it won't let me post it :V

Just imagine a dog throwing cash around everywhere :V

Lmao

many posts nothing useful why no news on $NCR instead just children poking stick at wildlife shameful 😮‍💨

I hodl NCR.

I will hodl NCR.

NCR moment

There is a lot of empty talk here so I want to say something what support the aim of this channel.

wanted*

Thank you champ ☺️

Please do, constructive discussion is helpful, and might just get noticed by the right people to make a difference. Gotta be loud.

Yes!!!

children keep posting with no news to post!!!

Karel Andrea Please ban these children!!!

Don't spread news.

make the whole damn headlines

You want things to happen you gotta make them happen. Can't just sit around waiting for someone else to do something.

you think CEO will hire you

alien man

give me paragraph

yes

yes

I think at least someone will see my constructive suggestions on how to add value to the token and preserve its integrity and salvage the reputation of the Neos platform.

Will you please let the alien thing go? I was responding to someone's comments on my artwork.

Try being constructive or you will be left behind.

Things don't happen without action.

Planting the seeds for new ideas is a good start.

Nothing useful

Learn to read please.

do not care

Then good luck with your gambling.

I did not ask

How about we just ignore eachother.

As I was saying, if you have something constructive to add, please do.

if that's what you're thinking when you see a dog. You should seek some help 😃

Stay behaved please. Lets talk about NCR and Neos instead

Like what will be the utility of NCR for Neos? Or vice versa?

I did. Sold and made a big chunk of USD at $NCR @ 9$

You are a sick in the head. See a therapist and doctor ASAP

Just stop please.

Indeed

why urging this not very product only hurt value of $NCR

poof! :)

all gone no more odd urges 💪

Lmao

Thank goodness. Cheers lads

dumb children get time for teasing house pets

The only mods here are Andrea and Karel

None

I'm sure there are but it doesn't look like any are here/have permission to moderate

I was too, it looks like the only 2 in here able to moderate are Karel and Andrea

Nop, all the moderation/privileges will show so on the user list

Andrea is an admin and Karel is the creator. And I suppose technically the 2 bots are also admins so they can moderate

I don't know what the nopigrobot one is configured to do but the other only stops sticker posting. Which is now a useless bot as one of the 2 admins changed the settings on the group after it was pointed out

Up to you

Good

Are you a real orc?

None

lets just say i was raised by them, but for what its worth sorry for the insults earlier. for real.

None

CEO COO still no answer to many mentions

Seem that chat is abandon

Troll free to spam and fud

None

family

It is not real vin diesel celebrity

Maybe not

Vin diesel in metaverse sponsor will be bullish if true

You have great character development. Cheers

Karel

None

None

Scam

Morning guys, sorry if things appear a little quiet these days. Neos carries on as a beloved creator platform and thankfully people are still able to enjoy it☺️.
We are also blessed with many businesses and educational institutions that has made Neos part of their workflow - which is wonderful because it means more content and functionality and of course it helps to drive interest from broader user base. Which is good news for NCR as well down the line- as who stands behind you matters a lot when it comes to confidence and trust in the platform as we all know☺️
***And here I stress that I am talking about the faith in the platform itself - not talking about leadership and current messy situation. Creators will keep creating because Neos comes packed with features and functionalities that are in many instances much further ahead of other (and larger) platforms.

I strongly believe that Neos is too good to fail now and while we are seemingly stuck in this limbo - I have reached out to a few people lately, with plans on further platform promotion.

We are also implementing some fixes to the website which should be in place within this week - namely addressing the account verification process.

And we hear your feedback where it comes to showing more user content and in-game footage on the website.
I have tried to reach out to a few people who have worked on the original Neos trailer which was sadly never released, with the intention of fresh collaboration, but unfortunately not everyone is as approachable as I hoped or able to see past the current situation. Which is a shame as I believe having a nice Neos trailer on the website for instance, is nothing controversial and we would all benefit from that.

But onwards and upwards - we have an amazing support from many others and I think it is an opportunity to work on a new trailer and other content with people who truly support Neos, have a great positive attitude and understand the bigger picture - and what is at stake😊.

So I am personally looking forward to better days and of course catching up with some of you in Neos who I haven’t had a chance to talk to yet 😊

I honestly do hope at some point we can put things behind us, lay out terms that address everyone's desires, and focus on those things together and repair our divide. I don't think old wounds can heal so easily with just words, but even this situation, I atleast believe, isn't beyond both parties making amends.

I think the first step is for us to just be honest about what we want for the game.

Yes, I also think that people who have the interest of Neos at the forefront are those who are actually proactive already because they tend to focus on pragmatic side and what can be done.

Like you can focus all you like on the spilled glass of milk but esentially, if it's spilled it's spilled😁 Lets clean the mess and move on 😊 Plenty more milk to go around. 😁

No idea why I chose milk haha, substitute for the beverage of your choice

Not planned at this time, one universal subscription with increased storage and other perks to succeed both Pro and Patreon is planned long term.

s odvahou! :)
i can wait long enough

Gm team I wish many good news for neos

User above me being hateful to Chinese like me. Saying he will destroy chat

Please remove bad user from chat

Honestly, this place smells a lot like fur. I'll spam the telegram channel at the end of this month so it won't work anymore

Folks at the discord saying "schools that paid for lifetime Pro are going to be pissed"

Seems abit preemptive to assume they won't get rolled over into the new service?

The discord is a toxic negative wasteland at this point.

Price falling

None

everything is.

There was a buyback yesterday

... If thats a toxic negative wasteland, then there is no title in the world to descirbe the negativity in this TG channel.

K

your mom

k

Literally no one cares. It's only your time getting wasted at this point.

"I'll obsess over them and mildly inconvenience them, that will show em". 🤣🤣

Karel Andrea

Imagine all the things you could be doing to improve your life. But instead you choose to be a literal big baby.

Please, go right ahead. it might get more than 2 'moderators' in here.

Thank you team

Get on with my life and make more money. Sounds like you didn't earn it on your own in the first place. Otherwise you would have already done so. Literally can write off the loss. My god was it your inheritance?

Oh I guess he got banned before I could call him out properly

Oh well

And his 77 proxies!

Pikey cam in with an alt account and I mocked him for wasting his own time, then he bemoaned losing "millions of dollars"

Maybe he was purchasing his eth with Turkmenistani Manats

17k=1 USD

Troll user

Who are you

You hateful to all groups of people

Or you could quit whinging and go make the money back elsewhere like an adult. My god did you lose your dead relatives life savings or what?

Karel troll returns

NEETS spending dad's money have all the time in the world. Speaking of which. I'm pressed for it, take care ya'll

Thank you

Troll causing too many problems this morning😮‍💨

Mr. Thousands taking a full 20 minutes of his day to set up that new gmail account.

That's a fine way to trigger Gmail's algorithm to can all his Gmail accounts lol

Troll user return once again Karel

Like he knows how to do that

May be better to ping Andrea for it I think.
But damn.. wonder how long he will keep them coming >_>

It's probably less entertainment and more some kind of emotional dysregulation

None

🤦‍♂️

That's not creepy at all.

Or weird

Totally normal well adjusted behavior

Which is right, what do you think how do new users feel like when they join in here for help?

It really doesn't

^ ?

Both platforms have been sharing each other's posts. Both platforms think the other is wrong. We could talk about that all day, its not that interesting.

This is what they call "Pulling an Amber Herd"

This is literally a toxic comment.

At least we all have agreed to thow Pikey out...

only took two-three months >.>

yep....

I get there's little moderation here, but I feel bad for anyone looking for serious community interaction here aside from Andrea's posts, which are wonderful by her and I'm glad she keeps positive light.

Oh my god. I just want to talk about how to go forward with things in Neos in this chat and everytime a good discussion gets going it's literally the same handful of people that come in here whinging and writing essays about their hurt feelings.

That's it I'm muting. I've got more important shit to do.

Back to the salt mines? XD Good luck :)

Spy is a strange term when both platforms are freely accessible

Yeah the discord and telegram are obvious failures. And pretty much are a division. It might be time to nuke them both and adopt something slower like a message board. It's not a good look for new users

Or old users that are pretty much fed up with everythinf

Meanwhile the Japanese Community : What is even happening?

Then just get rid of those channels

The discord is fine. Theres this common generalization that the discord is entirely toxic even though crypto/situation conversations are held in a couple threads in 1 or 2 channels. Like, everything else is just continuing as normal, most of the discord doesn't even pay attention to the drama.

Neos could probably do with a rebrand too.

"The discord is fine" "the drama is kept to a few channels".
That's literally a problem

Neos has an image issue

What's the problem....?

Remember when I said they both should go?

If you can't, understand the problem with having "drama containment channels" on a discord there is no use explaining it to you.

This is inaccurate/wrong

Are people fighting in that channel?

I don't see the problem because discord is a platform where you sort conversations into threads and channels. So, it's only natural these conversations are in a thread, are you expecting it to be a server wide discussion thing or what?

This is activity, what are you comparing to, telegram? The platform with a single channel?

Jfc I said to remove the problem channels.

Removing threads/channels just creates leakage into other channels. This is why they are created in the first place. There was so much activity in the NCR channel a few months back that it had to be categorized or it was chaos.

There is a good reason to not remove channels. There never has, they all have been archived. The conversation in the original NCR channel is still there before it became a hub for multiple threads to handle the peak in crypto discussions

If you can't understand the negative impact of having a quarantined echo chamber, I can't help you

You don't bother to explain the issue, so I will continue to believe that creating channels for discussion is okay. It's not even quarantined, its open, public, join in. Whats the big deal?

Dont feed the troll

It sadly wont help much, seen how long pikey was in here with .much. worse stuff

nope, its been going on for months

Dude, Pikey was an ass ever since I joined. The only thing that changed recently is he started applying the principles of equal opportunity asshattery and threatened the project.

You've been here for pretty much all the crap too >.> I have no idea why you are devil's advocating his behavior. It was clear he was toxic from the get go, and yeah, it really is an issue of moderation that he was around for so long. Hopefully channel moderation takes that as an improvement opportunity.

meanwhile, I'm just trying to get projects done...

The YUR bridge is coming out fairly well and the dev team behind it is happy such works. Would like to figure out how to bridge it better but eh... fitness data be fickle I guess

the discord is just more in agreement with each other. They ran everyone else out who wanted to have a different opinion and now have to mull about in agreement over their obsession with a badguy. And keep in mind this TG is kind of for the people who feel like they're under attack not just for being "cryptobros", (which, I don't know if you saw how ugly things got before this TG even existed) but also under attack financially with the implied abandonment of the token. If you wanted to bridge the divide, why is there not a single voice on the discord who is in consideration of the group who is being defrauded?

There is a lot of anti-furry nonsense, and I've said much of it too, but I think many of those voices are both from people who dont speal good english and also this is their firsr time even HEARING about this fandom

and from their perspective, furries agree unanimously on things together and are impressively organized in what many of us feel is an unfair situation

so I dont know what people are expecting...

like?

amd um, I've seen people say such crazy shit about Tizzy it's unreal.

Like, when Nex has people insinuaring insane shit about him I think you can agree that's fucked up. It shouldnt be OK with Tizzy

And Tizzy was one of the most positive voices in here. That changed recently following alot of thos abuse. People drawing ugly pictures of her and just the absolutely toxic public display on places like Twitter

why can't your side take responsibility for some of those things and try to treat us like humans too?

dont you see how that discord festering the way it is, is part of the problem?

eh.... if you have a background with what they claim to be an expert on... there's a reason... but oddly, I never really dealt with that stuff so... while I cannot judge Tizzy directly from my own past interactions, I haven't heard anything decent from many people... including ones who dont' even care about Neos

as you can imagine

Oh sure, I can have the same opinion about various people too and propagate rumors and say "well I didnt see it personally"

people were doing the same to Nex, implying he was involved with some sort of sexual misconduct when in reality that wasnt even true at all. Im guilty for believing it too

anger? being treated unfairly by a group?

well we're all turning into affinity groups, where we believe anything with bo verification if its something we agree with.

to be fair, I have dealt with people that act like Tizzy, oddly on other platforms in the stance of moderation. The issue I can base from just their own words isn't so much positivity and more cheerleading. You can be positive about most things, but it's hard to be positive about things that aren't positive themselves. Cheerleading though? You can cheerlead for a promotion, a completed goal, and even a train wreck.

they seem above referencing it. I can understand not wanting to show a reaction to it.

but I'm not goint to say one singular individual makes the show either

And you think the way people talk about Karel 24/7 there doesn't habe an effect on his mentality or communicate that of he even did want to let go, he shouldn't

Because she genuinely believes what shes saying probably? And we all see this as an unfair situation.

I'm not saying that beleiving in something is somehow an issue, but preaching everything in the given stances done recently, I've yet to see a chain of statements that don't end with "Also, f*** the furry cult".

they're genuinely angry. I'm sure plenty there said "fuck cryptobros" and got away with it, or were gloating about NCR dumping and "cheerleading" that

I do agree though that needs to stop if we're ever to come together

words to live by

Bear in mind, most people in Neos, furry or otherwise, have a sizable pool of NCR within the platform itself. Heck, I still have the file wallet to the older platform I worked for... though it's not useful at all due to how that system handled its connections with the blockchain

there's all sorts of motives and emotions tied up. I think we've focused too long on worrying abiut what other parties think or want for their perceived adversaries and not on just plainly stating what we'd each want for the platform

well for starters, having withdrawals and transactions being automatic would have helped alot of problems

its simple consensus on problem areas like that that probably help us see eye to eye more

Completely agreed. The older platform I worked for... was more manual than one could even imagine. You had to schedule bank appointments... in world. It was as clumsy as you can imagine, not to mention annoying. EU users were basically screwed.

I mean, there is the voting system for problems on GitHub, but almost no one on Patreon really knows about this or has signed in. I would argue that something like this should be a website feature, so that you can vote via the client or via the website.

You can, but the interface is rudimentory. It's a neos bot command.

Not to mention, you need someone to break out their GitHub 'fu and have written a ticket about something. And then there's finding it so you can vote for it. I love GitHub, but unless you have decent technical knowledge, it's painful for general users. That might filter out common issues from being repeated, but it also prevents them from being known.

https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Bot#Priority_Issue_voting_for_Patreon_Supporters for reference

I actually have voted on an ironic ticket on that: no help command. You can find the bot, but without resorting to the Wiki, you won't know what the commands are. Typing in anything from /help to /findnearestcliff doesn't respond with anything, so you don't know if the command you got was right or not.

So with the /priorityIssue command, I enterred it in with my Linux mindset of 'lowercase everything' and did /priorityissue 1878. Nothing happenned. It wasn't until I saw the wiki and saw the capitalization. /priorityIssue 1878. Now it talked to me.

yeah, I don't like the neos bot interface at all XD

(Incidently, 1878 is the feature request for /help)

I forgot where I got it, but I found the API URL that said how many votes were casted and where. The issue is the number was only like 208 votes. And the Patreon has... even with dwindling numbers, 1705 members as of this writing. You can imagine what it was like to see 208 votes back when the numbers were far higher, and that no one had even bothered to vote on issues

But at the same notion... I have been on the Patreon for more than a year, and I hadn't even voted because I didn't know how.

Luna and NCR now equal 😭

Huh. Slightly unrelated but Nvidia just released an open source linux driver for their Turing and newer cards.

Where and when was this disproven or even addressed? As far as I am aware the volunteers have refused to say anything confirming or denying these allegations.

Ohh first party nvidia linux drivers

I've been genuinely thrilled about the future of Neos and was very all-in on evangelizing it, but I can't get behind watching the userbase and volunteers try and remove the co-founder of Neos from his own company. It's not only unrealistic, it's also unethical and requires an incredible amount of delusional hubris to think it's even a viable option. Over the past year of getting to know Karel, he has shown himself to be a good person who cares a lot about Neos and the future of the company. It's been infuriating watching people demonize him while failing to acknowledge that he is 50% of the reason that Neos even exists, and that's why I will continue to defend him and Andrea regardless of the social consequences.

About time. Maybe Linux can finally get drivers that don't completely suck

I just wish at the very least people would admit to the level of work he has put into the project. Because he assumed a business related roll, to assume he was useless or had a "fake" job (as people are doing RIGHT NOW) in the discord, is just one of many layers of childish, unfair thinking of the situation.

Because what some voices don't want is for us to have to come to grips with the fact that all parties actually care about the platform.

The sad thing is that

I feel that even if the cofounders came together, laid out fair terms, apologized, and whatever else needed to be done...

The community possibly wouldn't allow it

and of I voiced something like that, I'm absolutely positive Probable or Geenz would step in and tell me they don't care they still want Karel gone

Like, it's a suffocating situation and entirely held up by egos.

it seems partly rooted in common socialist rhetoric that's popular among young people right now.

Any skill based position that has physically tangible results tend to be that way. It isn't just tech oriented ones

Well, I've felt tech positions have been well catered to recently too.. There's this idea that the company exists to support the lifestyle of the IT crowd, instead of the other way around. Not applying that to the technical work on Neos or anything, as Im not saying I think any party has been treated fairly but those coming from those fields seem to expect that.

It's fair. The same thing occurred last decade with the medical field.

yeah, well its like, something in the back of my mind. Or it contributes to the feeling of this being an unfair situation.

Oh I mean the discussion in the discord... as in young liberal people writing off a CEO position or trying to discredit it or whatever they want to project on Karel

I'm hearing stories about compaci classes so full they have students sitting in the halls trying to listen

Part of that is also that the education that is offered usually doesn't lead to successful tech workers. Instead, you just have people who can read a textbook and answer quiz questions, instead of people who can observe an issue and come up with a solution. The problem is that when people then filter the entire group, a common major filter is the scoring of the individual, which favors the people who can read books, and not the ones that actually wanted to do something else in the field.

Well, when I worked for the other platform, I was actually rejected due to my background in programming. This is because the requirements for the software engineering position had far higher requirements, that I did not have. Instead, I applied as a support and engagement associate, but so were many other software engineers, who were attempting to get a lower position and work their way up. As a result, I got stuck in that filter, despite being asked several times to apply from the team.

Over here thats the norm with nearly every university path for the first half year.
The next half year, 30-40% haven't passed or leave for different paths or even job offers

well point partly being if someone said "Karel actually worked pretty hard and devoted some years of his life working on Neos" I'd probably get attacked Regardless of people's opinions, I wish people over there would just accept that

I have no idea what is the norm for Unis either then or now.. and to be clear I dont really think good engineers are that disposible

Spoiler: I was qualified. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying "when I worked for another platform." The issue was a disconnect between the developing team who were in world and the hiring team. Even the day that I was rejected, I was pulled over to the side by a team member requesting that I submit my resume and credentials for the position, unaware of the outcome.

this was back in 2016. VR was new. There wasn't really any tailoring to a field that just came out. I had mentioned my contributions to the project (recompiling the server for Raspberry Pis, research on full body tracking solutions, bug fixes in the client), but that again put me in the 'software engineer who wants to become a support agent to then become an engineer'

well... that's the sadder part: it was a small company; a start-up even. I mean, either way, it worked out, and I was onboard as the furthest remote employee they had for more than a year. It paid for all my VR equipment and computer upgrades I needed for the job, so no complaints.

I had access to Horizon Worlds today and I’m mad at Neos 😠

Neos is Way better than Horizon obviously

Horizon has made a super friendly UI and great creation controls, but… the whole experience is so dumb. Avatars are so simple and childish. Like a PSP 32 bit game

Why 😭 why is not Neos the hot metaverse platform where all companies and users want to be in? 😭

Neos doesn't really want to go after that crowd I think

from what I've read, the community sees certain user groups as a hassle currently

same question was asked when I was with my previous employer on the other platform.
Simplicity and ease of use are major factors, since you want anyone to be able to explore around. A common question that got asked around during the final times of the staff meetings was "Would you have a family member try this and what reason do you have for your answer?" I always said No, simply because the polish and intuitiveness was absent.
Look at how websites and some basic apps work. Most share common languages and symbols that virtually all agree with. A floppy disk to save, folder to open, an arrow to navigate, blue, underlined text means a link, etc. Translating that to VR is complicated, because while we may still think "I can pick up a glass as I can in reality", not everyone understands that. They know they're in a world, but don't realize they can interact with it in the same way. Even then, how would you interact with a menu? Real life doesn't have holograms as a normal thing yet.

I mean, look at AltSpaceVR: that is simplicity at its finest in a way, so much so that just before the doors closed all the way, Microsoft purchased them. Most of its graphics are glorified chess pieces with floating hands, but it still works well for what it wanted to do: being a purely social VR platform. You could sit anyone in it and the natural experience it offers just works, because the scope is so narrow.

Neos's scope is huge. You can do anything in it, but sometimes this isn't always desired. We all visit websites (you had to do so to get here), but not everyone here wants to build one. Even if the desire is there, some people want to compile their own copy of nginx, vi the config files, and manually tweak how the tcp pipes will function. Other people just want Square Space (not sponsored). Some are happy with just a Facebook page.

None

NCR still resists the high volatility of the market

ncr the best

but crypto is dead...

wait for next season

2 years