Walls text

That's demonstrably not true and I wish I had recordings. There were literally groups of people trying their best to fuck with it. And hell, look at the NCR channel chats, there were so many people doing everything they could to make everyone paranoid about it and get it removed.

Yes, when a currency is tied to interest, not to a physical thing, that's what primarily affects the value.

Recording CTO ruin NCR??

when they started attacking the company's own funders, it became a requirement. And the right thing to do.

You can literally scroll back through the NCR chat, don't be a twat.

+ Insulting...

Sure, just cover your eyes and scream "I don't see anyhting!". There's absolutely ZERO chance that you were in the Neos Discord and didn't see this happening for WEEKS.

The devs made an actual thread for the community to brainstorm ways to remove NCR, and the devs were openly listening to it and agreeing

If people are going to act like patronising twats, I'm going to call them twats.

Like just ignore the Adroit person,they'll crawl back to the discord eventually. I dont feel like having this rehashed argument for the 500th time

you already showed your ass, we dont have to be nice to you now lol

She's not denying it though. It's the core team having done it and then be hypocritical about it which is the real crime

Those are not likely them then, this likely happened earlier. I'll have to find the images I have laying around somewhere, it showed some of the team extracting from in-game.

The selloff and the price isn't really the concern. If some people made money then I'm glad for them.

Witch-hunting for who made money off the NCR pump is a waste of time.

The only time it's interesting is with team members imo, who had NCR, sold it and then took public stances against it

It's the hypocrisy that bothers me. They make a load of money then pretend it was evil all along.

That and the community tries to scrub away the inconvenient fact that NCR existed and was being sold to people sonce 2018...

I understand plenty might not even know that, but its a partially obscured fact at this point.

And we're to pretend those NCR sales didn't help Neos stay afloat. We're supposed to just nod and go "oh ok" when they try to explain away that Froox himself said Neos would be dead years ago if not for NCR

But oh no, it's "Karel's baby" and "we don't have responsibility to ncr holders, that's all Karel's thing."

I'd like to actually agree with them. True, its not their responsibility and if they don't want to work for a company that is involved with crypto or has a responsibility to align its interests with the "wrong crowd" (Geenz's words) then... leave the startup?

Guess that makes too much sense.

Karel is badman makes much more sense

A lot of furries get involved with the fandom because they don’t socially fit in anywhere else and are looking for a sense of belonging. Some of them have aspergers syndrome or autism, or are just awkward / nerdy and have been bullied. The fandom is very cult-like in that it draws people in and offers them that sense of belonging, and then punishes those who don’t fall in line with the groupthink by threatening to banish them from participating.

I joined because my hobby outside of VR is cosplay and sewing - and for me furry has always been an extension of that more than a social thing. In real life I have my own social circles that I've developed working in the film and interactive industry for over 20 years and have no problem stepping back and removing myself from the narratives painted by the furries. At the end of the day I’m an investor and a business woman before I’m a furry and I feel no pressure to fall in line with them.

I’m also old and have been around the fandom since the mid to late 90s with a very first hand perspective on how the group dynamic works. What’s happening with Neos right now is very typical of furry projects - which I think is important for the investors to understand. As much as the furries try and push back at the generalizations, it’s very much a factor and it’s not the first time I’ve seen something like this happen.

I have nothing against furries or people who identify as funny animals for fun or who ERP or whatever, but it's just that in recent years it feels like they've become one of the most combative groups online now, always trying to post the tired old "L+ratio" or whatever zingers, always trying to witchhunt, always seemingly in a mood for drama or to have a go at anyone behind the veil of being a fluffy animal or something

But then again I realize thats most yoing people now and isnt reallu their thing alone

The fandom has become an extension of the hyper-left social justice movement.

In a way yeah I'd agree

Well I look at issues and it seems like most comment sections are fulled with usually an army of furries with marxist tags on their bio and an axe to grind. Its not inherently furry its just I guess its just signs of an always-online youth who is addicted to escapism and whos brains are addled in the pasttime of group complaining

I think at the end of the day that's what a lot of this comes down to. It's the clashing of Socialism vs Crypto Capitalism.

I suppose so, thats succinct enough.. I don't particularly care what's someone flavor of politics are and I don't see myself as someone who couldn't get along with either group, it's just like.. It keeps being that having beliefs arent enough, we must be always forcing ours onto everyone else

you're not allowed to speculate on NCR, thats bad, it wasn't made for that

And other intellectually bunk takes that really boil down to trying to force everyone into the same belief pattern

worst yet I see alot of the anti NCR discourse devolving into simping for fiat currencies and arguing Neos shouldn't have decentralized princibles but should be a corporate fiefdom by design

fine, but no one is required to use NCR... so what was the issue? It was the NEED of chronically online youths to push their values onto others

I don't fault someone for believing in socialism or whatever, I really don't, but I do feel that this debacle was exasperated by ideologicsl clashes

Frooxius basically built a cult of personality around himself over the past several years who in turned gassed him up into believing he was being oppressed by Karel and are now pushing him to take over the platform because they see him as the rightful fuzzy king. Unfortunately for them that’s not how things work outside of the furry reality distortion field. It might work for a con leadership team or a Second Life group, but you can’t cancel somebody out of 50% legal ownership.

@tizzers I have to ask, what did you do that took 80 hours and warranted $8k?

Oh that was a copy/paste from Frooxius. Check the Discord Announcements channel.

In regards to the extent of his involvement with the CZ-based Solirax entity being 4 invoices.

Ah, I see now. The split message made it look like two separate statements.

Toured your theater world the other day Enverex. Really cool place!

Yeah, while I don't know who truly profited on ncr (except for myself), those who argued that it should never have existed are arguing in bad faith.

I guess we'll all see what happens when the alleged legal proceedings finish. I'm perfectly fine being a spectator sitting in the middle of all this.

Tizzy, please note that advocating antisemitic conspiracy theories is against the neos usage guidelines.

I’m not advocating for anything. It was an observation.

My point being that the root of disagreements like we are currently in can a lot of times be traced back to a clashing of ideologies, and it’s clear that the left-leaning ideology of the furry fandom is clashing with the capitalist right-leaning ideology of the cryptosphere.

Several months ago I made a post on Twitter suggesting different ways that fursuit makers can optimize their workflow and increase their production volume using off-the-shelf technology. The response I received was over 1000 people unfollowing me and a backlash of hate from the fandom. Furries are violently anti-capitalist and Karel/NCR represents capitalizing on a space they see as their socialist utopian furry treehouse. That’s why we are in this situation.

Good summary

Yeah the basis for my argument was that multiple pricepoints can exist in the market and not everything has to be a $10,000 handmade bespoke product. As you said it's all slightly off-topic, but sort of paints a picture of the furry ethos.

Thanks, it was hell of a lot of work and costs me quite a bit to run each month unfortunately.

The discord/furries have a complete inability to acknowledge any criticism or wrongdoing by Froox and the dev team. They would rather re-write history, making any discussion with them pointless at this point. Their only purpose in being here is to "fact check" conversation and push this alternate reality they have convinced themselves of.

E.g., denying that Froox and dev team were involved with promoting NCR for years as evidenced by the whitepaper and other public statements including in discord and reddit; insisting that the discord was "fair" and welcoming of all groups when it was anything but, ignoring the fact that the entire crypto community was driven to its own telegram channel; accusing the crypto community of "speculation" into facts while at the same time they openly accused Karel of enslaving Froox and locking him in the house with ZERO evidence; saying that there was no coordinated sell-off when on-chain transactions of old wallets show consistent selling by insiders around time of the work strike and after Karel did his staking poll; acting as if the third-party API integration was a legitimate and fair offer to Karel and NCR holders instead of the death blow that it actually would be; stating that they have nothing against NCR holders when multiple insiders and key community members have had chats exposed basically wishing NCR goes to zero; morally justifying people losing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars because it was "speculation" and their own fault, ignoring the fact that the price drop itself was caused by the work strike, insiders selling, and ongoing dispute, all while many insiders made money; the team saying it's "not about money" but constantly bringing up the fact that Karel underpaid Froox and devs, also while ignoring that Neos was a startup and there were barely any funds until the boom late last year, and that Karel said he was willing to pay outstanding invoices (which was refused), renegotiate contracts, and even setup a US entity for Froox to hire his own dev team....

Can keep going

then people like Cyro insult us even further by trying to say we are overusing or don't understand the term "gaslighting"

ya, i know you have problems with reading kulza

i'll try to dumb it down even further for you next time

Hello everyone 😄

well said, and as far back as November they stoked divisive flames in the community. Instead of telling people to accept that NCR exists and they don't have to use it (just use the damn Steam client), they communicated to the community that if they fought and complained loud and hard enough that they might consider removing NCR, going as far as to have multiple threads about how to remove NCR from the game (almost as of they were out of ideas on how to handle the situation)

Then after all of that their attitude is to blame crypto natives as the wrong crowd and their bullshit to be their fault.

"we dont want to deal with them anymore" and "wrong crowd" being their exact words, igboring that they made this pit fight environment

Opening up and encouraging discussion of killing NCR is insane in the context that they had been selling it to people for FOUR YEARS

This isnt kindergarten, you can't just all point to Karel and hope everyone believes he's the problem child

also I guess its been effective so far..

I was there lurking at how it was back in November/December.. for every 1 confused crypto jackoff there was 3 furry avatars trying to slam on him

and we're supposed to believe their disingenuous words that all this is their fault. Come on.

again... how crypto was viewed even 5 years ago is vastly different from now. Whereas before it was actually viewed as a potential saver and upgrade to online transactions eventually got to where it is now... where most gaming centric groups usually don't view it as a good thing anymore due to mining using a large amount of power (the card shortages withstanding as its own thing, but honestly, most cards sold for mining were better than the graphical counterparts anyway so... mute point).

So... yeah, for the past 4 years, it wasn't really an issue and even within the past amount of time, it wasn't quite as bad because it wasn't given the spotlight treatment...

Basically youre saying the Neos masses are reactionary drones who follow outrage trends and we should only do things that twitter mobs would approve of

the issue now is that because it is getting the spotlight treatment is where massive changes are occurring. Removal from Steam, heavy negativity responses from potential users due to the crypto relations, and general distrust usually are the suspects when it comes to that subject by itself.

it isn't just the twitter culture. It's kind of the general culture of people who do VR and gaming... which is the general target audience for platforms like VRChat and the like, who is often compared to everyone else including Neos.

again, before it all skyrocktetted, it wasn't an issue because... well, it was kind of not worth anything and could be ignored. Then it's value went up, attention went up, and the potential people who were even considering joining Neos gave up and voiced their concerns, drawing more negative attention. While you could say it also drew in a different audience, this hasn't really altered the concurrency numbers

My what a storm. We should all be spineless to not upset fickle western reactionary movements

In fact, the only times Neos's concurrency numbers did rise was when VRChat had connection issues... so people tried other platforms. Even then, not even a solid percentage of active users even tried Neos.

And crypto natives are investing heavily in virtual spaces right now, so it seems kind of myopic to imply that the people who matter are all anti-crypto or whatever the point is

Everythig you say just sounds like this shamefully craven viewpoint that Neos needs to bend over for whatever "current trend" is

but the question is... are those people in Neos right now? People who are here, in the telegram, all 344 members... how many have actually logged in or even aspired to do so? Same goes with patreon or even discord members. I get world times are different, but concurrency numbers shouldn't be this low with all things considerred.

there's irony in your statement... if anything, Neos did exactly that

and also the most honest yet worse reason to project all of this baggage onto NCR

most projects during the 5-6 years ago... pretty much added crypto to their systems, even if it didn't make sense for it

So Neos is even worse, added crypto late and then removed it early. Lol.

Kulza you rarely have a point worth responding to, but I'll respond to tell you that we are talking and I'm sorry you don't like that?

well, Orc did raise an interesting point regarding why a component to a system wasn't problematic until now, and it did deserve a bit of a look into. It can help explain things and potentially help the platform by understanding why things have occurred as they have.

and the TLDR of it is... because it wasn't the primary focus. But now that it is being pushed as such, it's causing problems. That's how something for so long can be not an issue but change suddenly in recent times

that isn't to dismiss the other issues Neos has... which has been preached enough times in any chat channel you look at...

Youre explaining what we kind of already know. NCR was being sold for years, and the moment there was an uncomfortable season relating to it, or it actually gained value, it became a problem... Which says to me that either the devs never intended NCR to ever have any value (or they arrogantly thought they could predict when and how much) or that they are just spineless and will always try to chase after twitter-borne trends

Maybe there's reason to think about it, but after 4 years of collecting funds for something, to try to dump that responsibility at the first sign of inconvenience shows no commitment to the company and those who put their financial faith in it and I question why they should have the right to kick out their cofounder

and also you ignore the people within your own community that use NCR or crypto. People who have built NFT art galleries, or Japanese users who made KFC casinos or KFC mining minigames that we may have one day hopes would be usable with NCR?

Like, no instead the reactionary angry crowd needs to be stoked... as of they'll never get over this stuff. as if they can't already FULLY ignore it.

Having NCR is not a political statement. One side is being unfair by purporting that it is.

I can't speak on the dev team's behalf, but at least back when I was part of a project that was blockchain based, it wasn't that big of a deal back then. If anything, it was kind of exciting. After the project shutdown, that's when the rather unusual rise of anti-crypto started... though that was also when the pandemic started as well so... take it as you will.

However, when the CEO was then hired into another position, people did criticize previous involvement with the project and its crypto backbone. Even when it didn't fully work out, wasn't even active, and even when they had more or less denounced the currency aspects, people were still quick to point that out.

Also, monopoly money is more fun to play with than actual money. Sure, there are KFC casinos, but the value of KFC is... nothing. It's just testing funny money. It's name and coin insignia should be evidence enough of that

Hell, I wanted the previous platform I worked with to succeed, even after my contract expired. I dragged creators I had contacts with to try and work with the systems, and other systems aside, it didn't quite work out. I hadn't even heard of Neos at the time, despite it existing in parallel. I'm not blaming the crypto side of it, because honestly it wasn't the full issue, and was very early. We now have SuperBowl commercials all about buying and selling crypto with so much as a free gmail account, but back then with the wallet files and all that... people were just not ready for it.

again, if I had a dollar for every time someone flushed their wallet file down the virtual toilet due to not doing proper backup steps... Well, I'd have easily doubled my earnings from there

I'm mostly curious on the aging aspect of the tokens... like, if someone buys some NCR now, then does a buyback 3 months from now... is the age based the buyback or the original purchase?

You mean in terms of long term vs short term investment taxation?

mostly that. I mean, within that timeframe, it'd be short, but I guess it's a case of acquired date and whoever pays the taxes. I dunno, the transfer thing hurts my head with how it was explained by my expert

thankfully, all mine were long term, and I did my acquiring at the same time so... I only had to worry about one date

AFAIK Each transaction has a date, and you have to keep track of the specific dates for the amount in each transaction. When you've held 100 examplecoins for a year, then you can sell those 100 examplecoins at the long term investment tax rate.

aren't they just all ETH smart contracts? So would it just be based on whoever set it up, be it a legal entity or an individual?

Clearly by forking a chain :3

uhuh... never claimed to be an expert of crypto systems. I just worked with a platform that used it but I'm more versed with traditional blockchains. ETH is... weird, so having something setup that does exactly that... not too hard of a guess

Flame may be using close cognates. It's not too difficult to intuit what they mean though.

To be fair, the technical aspects of blockchains have very little to do with the lingo of finance. If I didn't have that weird H&R contract in my past I'd likely not get half of the current cryptosphere regardless of my early participation.

I see. It sounds like you've been through the wringer with it both times

*shrug* true, though i tend to be a bit more forgiving of vocabulary imitation. it's a pretty common communication strategy in the groups I'm used to dealing with.

To give NCR some credit... it is closed loop, as in you can buy NCR with ETH and turn NCR back into ETH. The money you buy it with also is its own output. HFC didn't work that way, and it was a major critique during its operation: you could only buy HFC with ETH, but cashed out in USD (not USDC). This means to buy HFC, you had to become versed with crypto currencies... but to cash out, you just needed PayPal.

So people who were VERY big on crypto (and it was... I want to say, maybe 50% of the concurrent userbase at the time) couldn't really keep their money within the chain in someway because cashing out of the platform was in USD... which defeats the point. Likewise, people who wanted to buy HFC couldn't because they weren't versed enough with how cryptocurrencies worked back then (again, RIP all the countless wallet files lost when reinstalling the client).

this was also coupled with limited withdraws, which became a problem when contests were held with thousands of USD in HFC was involved, since the top prize earnings exceeded the monthly limit.

I don't recall there being a limit on buying HFC... but that did always bug me, even to this day: considering all the ETH they DID buy in HFC exchanges... I know not everyone cashed out (hell, I know prize winners who didn't cash out their prizes, so RIP prize money). This was all back in 2017-2019, when the platform was in operation... the earliest ETH purchases would, I assume, still be in the company's possession... which nowadays... has to be worth a seriously high amount.

None

None

Lol

what is this?

Andrea possible bot? otherwise spam.. has mostly only posted about this since joining

Thanks for the heads up. 🙂 I don't think it's a bot/spam, it's someone who has just changed their username recently I believe:)

Pretty sure he grounds to fork it and work with a clone.

He owns the same portion of the company as Froox.

I'm glad I caught you by the way. I noticed Karel has gone largely off the radar, I've been trying to get in contact with him and I've waited a few weeks now. I was wondering if you could please see if he could respond to me at some point in the near future, I would like to collaborate on bringing NCR back to life and go through some strategies to keep it relevant if certain scenarios were to play out, improving its use cases and functionality within Neos.

Also would very much like the opportunity to get some of my own solutions to other areas that could improve the user experience for people who are new to the platform implemented natively so that we can start seeing more user retention, and see what I can do about improving the way in which people see the platform.

I currently work part time with a VR hardware startup, the boss is very passionate about Neos as an outlet for his creativity and so am I, so I think there is a lot we could achieve with a bit of cooperation.

The thing that will defibrillate the value of the token will be a concrete resolution that creates forward momentum for Neos with both Karel and NCR included.

tizzy so smart

keep up please

yeah NEOS should invite Tizzy to the CMO

Please no furry on team

Furry makes no skill

Argue about furry all day useless

Then invite furry to team

Madness

I do not know this industry

Unfortunately this is what happens when startups devolve into a coder-driven technocracy with no regard for the other crucial positions that hold them accountable and make the entity function as a viable company. Without Karel Neos would not exist - something that Frooxius himself has stated multiple times in the past. I watched Karel and Andrea present the roadmap and start to lay the foundation for the future of Neos, and the furries across the table pushed back with no respect for his position as CEO.

Andrea Do you want to do something about Max ? He literally just shills some random crypto in here almost every day and that's it.

Andrea might want to do something against the spam?

Oh enverex was faster

Never saw those funds for a second? I'd like him to prove that within 4 years of selling NCR to users that none of that money went to upkeeping the network

Also this dimwit likes to post about Karel as if he knows what his job was within Neos and downplay the work he sunk into it by trying to get the other dullards to believe that he's just a bean-counter and nothing more.

When anyone who isn't being even slightly disingenuous has to admit that Karel as much as any of them had his sleeves rolled up working on managing Neos as well.

Millions of funds raised in 2021 huh? You make a fool of yourself, as it wasn't until the tail end of 2021 that NCR exploded in value and they actually had money

You and just about everyone seems to be unaware that Neos was an unprofitable startup.

...why....

Can we please ban Max?

We have been far too patient with him

You're spamming some coin none of us are interested in

This is not a coin channel it's for a goddamn game

Millions in raised funds? Prior to the end of 2021? Literally none. This all happened within the space of literally several months.

Because this isn't a "shill your shitty crypto" channel, it's a Neos specific channel.

Just fucking ban him please dear god

you are so impatient, it hurts... and that's coming from me...

Veer isn't a dev, he literally part time moderates, that's it. $2000 is also not pitiful.

uh... do you need a mirror?

We MUST be at the height of the tech bubble because people are expecting fat Silicon Valley salaries for being a part of a start-up.

The funny thing is that they would be plenty well taken care of for their past work if they didn't, you know ATTACK THEIR OWN FUNDERS

For a "work whenever you like" job, moderating a mostly self moderating platform. Nearly 2K a month for being a part time internet janitor and you call that BAD money?!

You're complaining the amount is too low. So what are you expecting?

Also how unfamiliar are you with Neos to think Veer is a dev?

requesting an obvious spammer for an obviously ridiciolous coin... to basically stop spamming... is not a threat

We're talking about something being worked on by two guys living at Karel's mom.

Yeah. I mean, it's over. Like I've endured this shit enough. Just we can all agree he has to go

Max just please leave and shill somewhere else

begging you bro

Then leave

We don't fucking care about elon or your shitcoin that is going to fail

our conversation is about the platform literally in the title of the group... about the currency... in the title... of the group...

The news is NCR is going to zero. Sell now everything while you still can and put it into pregnanteloncoin

the news is you wait 30 seconds for someone to type out a response. I mean, I can CTRL+C/V spam too, but I'm not an idiot

there aren't any immediate updates that have been sent out from official channels other than the pinned messages within this channel and any announcements formed within another discussion channel in Discord. Any other updates would be from the community or individuals who are holding the system's currency, be it in the system itself or outside via a wallet, or from general users who partake on the platform itself.

You bring bullshit and scams. Just stop.

you are copying and pasting a link for a coin called ELONCAT, within a telegram group for a VR platform that still has token-based currency system called NCR.

Neos is a metaverse platform, much more than just NCR which was just a part of it.

just ban him

oh boy... here we go...

this is neos telegram

We may as well just forget about the channel until one of the moderators comes back, unfortunately I think that's literally just Andrea at this point.

Andrea For the love of god, please have someone else moderate here too, unless you're going to be significantly more active.

our conversation was about the platform and the functionality within it, in addition to addressing concerns and discussions regarding its parts or development. In a telegram group all about it.

the only irrelevant discussion is the links to a scam token for ELONCAT, before it gets old and dies off so we can start seeing ELONDOG, ELONSNAKE, and ELONELEPHANT to appear.

I dont' care. This is the Neos telegram group. We only really discuss NCR and Neos related topics. Elon Musk, as far as I'm aware, hasn't tried Neos (would be neat if that were true), and I'm fairly confident that the ability to upload a coin name based on a famous individual wouldn't exactly scream out "trustworthy" in this given day and age, and especially here, where it is a safe assumption to consider that people at least have some basic knowledge of cryptocurrencies, and common sense to see when something isn't right.

we were, then you showed up

oh... it finally comes out...

Neither. I'm not exactly for NCR, but I'm not against it strictly due to its cryptocurrency nature. The negative press around crypto, and thus causing relations to Neos, would be my primary argument and concern with the NCR, as systems and partnerships with exchanges could remedy complaints regarding trading and selling of NCR within Neos itself.

That, and given past experiences, I cannot exactly go 100% against the system without basically calling the kettle black, given my past contracted employment

Part time, work at home, do your own hours moderation. $2k p/m wage. That's not crappy by any standards, anywhere, ever.

I'd be *amazed* if that even remotely added up to even part-time hours.

Except... that's not Froox's patreon...

if you are somehow implying Geenz and Froox are the same person... I'm not sure how you figure that...

except... Froox's patreon isn't directly related to Neos operations or development specific to its core systems. Can't help you beyond that

so... Geenz making a new rendering system and Froox doing... whatever they want to do... aren't exactly related to each other, unless Froox's next project funded from the Patreon is using Geenz's graphical engine. Even then, just because Geenz started a Patreon doesn't suddenly mean the reasoning behind why Froox started one. If that were the case, most of the other developers would have spun up their own side systems in a similar manor

manor

I wouldn't be calling a kettle black based on past topics, but what one person does with their Patreon with its listed understanding that it isn't in direct relation to Neos development, that isn't really a scam. Scamming for money would be my Patreon tier in NeosVR, where the request of "priority support" for headless operation was very delayed, in addition to other services part of that tier not really working.

oh, and with the LNL relays back then also acting up, bandwidth was definitely not prioritized... unless it's upgrading from a 28k modem to 56k as a form of 'priority'

What exactly do you think Froox is doing, right now?

If he's not doing Neos related things, I'll eat my hat.

Don't know, don't care. Nothing has been mentioned on either Patreon campaign

So? What people do with their money is their problem, not yours. As far as I'm aware, if someone honestly wants to pay for that, then fine. Weirder things have been funded and with weaker reasons.

Not to mention, people will just vote with their wallets. If it does indeed turn out that the campaign isn't working out, people will leave. Pretty simple

Really calling the kettle black today, aren't we?

What ever

you are super unpleasant lol

lol, what?

I never even met them in person and I was dating someone else.

like, of all the banter and attempts at pushing something... really? We're going there now?

Welcome to 2022; you have a problem with people being gay?

Even then, if that is the case... yes, people are indeed often lighthearted and carefree.

100% a troll

Well looks like this chat is still the bastion of discourse and friendly debate

In a weird, twisted sense... that does also mean things are still relatively normal.

Can you shut up?

This is a Neos telegram why are you posting this?

if the previous videos are to be used as how the experience will be... I might as well reactivate my Second Life account and then press Shift F1 to dance.

I thought that looked pretty good for Decentraland before I watched the video and realised it was a pre-render.

Because it has nothing to do with Neos or NCR

You do understand the concept of what material is relevant to what location right? I wouldn't go to an F1 website and start posting about football. This is common sense, or at least should be.

just seems like a trash account to spam other crypto and "metaverses"

it is... earlier they insisted on the importance of... Eloncat...

No one in here gives a crap about decentral land

especially in the telegram... of what is technically a competing VR metaverse platform...

Anyone who buys digital land on 2022 is complete idiot.

Decentraland isn't even VR

it still doesn't support it? Welp...

Decentraland is a wasteland filled with people buying up digital real estate with no one to rent/sell it too

It's a joke

And second life is pretty much just running off it's old users at this point

...can confirm...

Anyone who thinks digital real estate is a good idea has no idea how the current functioning metaverse works.

isnt decentralland that place with that fucking weird coin that for some reason has a mouth or is there so many crypto metaverses that im mixing them up

Decentraland is a second life clone using Blockchain that doesn't understand it's about a decade late to that party

Lol because JP Morgan has never made insanely bad investments in the past, lol

Ok correction i was thinking of cryptoland

JP Morgan isn't getting that money back

Anyone who actually knows about the metaverse at large was cringing at that investment

so? when Philip attempted to make lightning strike twice with High Fidelity, it was funded by pretty much everyone including Linden Lab itself. That project was shutdown in 2020. Before then, it received more funding than Neos and VRChat combined, and you bet the investors aren't too happy.

to be fair. taking risk is inherit in investing. maybe it will be good for them maybe not. Im not a investor so i cant give a informed opinion

To be fair, there is no such thing as digital scarcity. When second life ran out of land guess what they did? They made more.

The reason real estate has value it does in the real world is because you can't make more of it.

its easier to make more digital stuff compared to phsyical stuff so that does make sense

Yeah and land in the real world takes a volcano and plate tectonics over millions of years, genius.

...I worked for High Fidelity under contract; an open source, blockchain based metaverse... and a few furries worked for them. Get your facts straight.

There's nothing stopping them from making more, whenever they want, in any shape or size.

I can edit comments, too

Elvis is dead

not gonna lie. when i do come in here i wonder if there are mods. specifically cause ive seen shit about Qanon Cabal and just people throwing insults

awhile back someoen said shit about a cabal

That's moronic.

im not saying that

im saying sometimes people go off the wall and it gets a bit... hecktic

you seem fine

no im not accusing

im saying people have talked about conspiracy theories

debunked and dangerous rheoric

😐

Tbh its kinda cool

i dig it

What? An on fire astronaut?

Best guess: It's those alien things from Space Channel 5. It's an okay game.

You understand more than one person is replying to you right?

hey no need to insult. we all have about 1 braincell here

collectively we all maybe can have two. everyone quick rub braincells together

Don't force your weird fetish on me

What avatar are you referring to?

...joke's on you: I have my own avatar in costume form. So in a sense, it does exist...

in fact, getting a second one done

hey braincells are pretty hot tho-

I love how triggered the dude got when I said Decentraland was trash

offtopic but i fucking dig your profile photo

that just slaps me with 100 songs in my head

I honestly hope to see us move away from that ik library. it's apparently a major factor in the current inability to release the engine as open source.

Mmm, no, I still hope to see us move away from the ik library :P There are other IK libraries that don't have fucky licensing.

Max, please stop spamming the same links over and over again. This is not the appropriate channel.

I do. That's not how grammar works. :)

Yes. Please stop spamming the channel.

The news is: the Neos wiki is 503 erroring. :) Gunna stick to your word?

Andrea you really need to appoint another mod in USA time zone

regarding VRC's 11 point tracking... I like how it took a large canny response for people asking for chest tracking... like, why wasn't it even on the radar by default?

sorry but... you're wrong

The beta claimed that they didn't want to add it. It was changed after the canny post got a large amount of traction, and the developers even asked why they should add it

I haven't been on VRC in awhile, but I did try out the new FBT beta package to see how it was, and that's why I knew about the canny post: because my usual setup is the full 11 point tracking

not really? They wanted to claim a massive improvement to the FBT system, but then fail to add what... oh, I don't know, virtually everyone else had? VRC was goign to go out with 10 point tracking and start their victory party... 100% unaware that all other platforms support 11 point.

I focus wherever I damn well please. I mean, if that's the case, then everyone from SL must be wondering why I haven't signed in ages despite the database migration going on for my old group.

You leave the good noodle alone :P

None

https://imgur.com/a/sU8qF56

Allright. Kal says he has physical proof of Frooxious being abused. Let's see it then.

I'm sure he can give us a little taste. Sounds like he has a good amount of proof. What would he legally be allowed to show that would not jeopardize a Cort case?

When is new update?

None

21% whats happen?

What a candle

Probably a buyback to offset the ETH selloff that's happening right now.

not buyback

new wallet just bought 200k

someone knew something 😁

this guy minted ncr 1204 days ago

what does he know to buy like this

this guy has $140k in his wallet, seems to wait to buy even more

can buy 400k more ncr

aha then just a buyback?

seems clever guy at least

money has no fault at all

Too clever?

hope he is betting on the right side again

neos is just too good to be true... except some stupidities

buying that much in one go is a strong move. perhaps this individual has high conviction on ncr going up. we'll find out soon i guess

insider trading . nice. good new is coming( i hope…)

at least it's not just karel buying up huge amounts of ncr now lol

Karel buyback?

nope. Someone who knows something bought it

anyway lets see if they buy more, i guess that will be the confirmation...

If they are insider who are they?

they bought pretty much at the start of ico, so they are an og

Karel's family

just kidding

reminder that there are several more wallets just like this with millions of USDC...

haha

Yes

where? kk

Users say many wallets like this sold all at same time

Clone wallet

see this post

this is one of the wallets listed there ^

all very similar

oh

nice one

this is what happens in unregulated crypto land xD

at least ncr is primarily traded on DEX's so we can see everything

on CEX's it's even worse

maybe he's betting on apple's vr device kk

yeah i think so

apple will announce vr device next year or sooner

metaverse hype is so clear to me

its crypto winter nowadays, but maybe 1 year later... who knows

this price is just too good to accumulate

Can someone explain me the statement from the ceo ? Whats happen english is not my main language

Did you buy the 200K NCR just now?

Ncr is a great project the future of metaverse but i need someone here to explain me the statement whats happen ?

Statements are not a bullish sign

Google translate the statement to your native language. It's hard to summarise

did i understand that correctly the ceo is currently negotiating a termination agreement with tomasz to kick him out?

no

tbh nobody really knows

i think karel still wants to work with froox

It sounded more like Karel is a Brickwall when talking to from the devs, barely responding to anything.

Kal was speaking about the negotiations lately

It was about the negotiations themself

Because the amount of people that want 11 point tracking is *infinitesimal* when viewing the whole userbase. It's "cool" for those that can use it, but those people are an incredibly tiny group, ergo it wasn't prioritised.

Honestly don't think he's an even remotely objectively reliable source at all.

When HTC says they will kick some revenue your way to implement something you do it

...that and also some Quest users do actually buy the basestations to enable trackers with the Quest for a fully wireless VR experience

Even my hardcore VR full-body friends had, at best, standard full body. No-one thought the cost of 11pt (and the hassle) was worth it.

I mean, he's not wrong. Literally everyone I know has gone back to VRC now. CVR lost their lead and Neos feels like a dead man walking, VRC on the other hand is making solid progress and is already a pretty strong platform.

not to mention, back when people were only just getting their hands on the trackers, some people did ask for additional tracker support. The argument that some people had was that no one would ever bother investing more than $300 in additional hardware for such things, despite the fact that some people still use hacked together Kinects and the more recent rise of self-made full-body tracking solutions like SlimeVR

Hell, even Tundra ended up making CHEAPER trackers because of market demand, and they keep selling out! They even addressed the issue of having more than 3 trackers requiring more USB ports

and even more so that HTC is charging MORE for their trackers because the demand for them is so high, they absolutely could increase the cost

heck, let's not forget HTC STILL sells their Deluxe Audio Strap, despite discontinuing the Vive, because they know that people are making adapters for the Quest headsets. Not on point with trackers, but moreso with demand for additional hardware

None

The thing is, you don't sell a platform on just basic functions. The dancing crowd in VR have always been wanting better tracking support, and VRC wasn't delivering... but the modding side were. Most popular videos for the platform are showing off things that push the systems to the limit, and you aren't doing that with just standard 3 trackers.

I'll admit that after the traditional 3, only elbows really adds the extra detail that is missing. Knee tracking is great if you are a dancer, but for casual use, it's not that special since leg IK is pretty good at this point. Chest tracking is more or less an additional corrector for the hips, and if you need videos on hip trackers going wild, you don't need to look too hard

but say no one wants to spend money on trackers. Well, a company answered that, and it's called Meta, and when Horizons got announced, the first major complaint was where was everyone's legs? It's still a joke even to this day, because the quest doesn't support native leg tracking as one of the major reasons why it wasn't added to their avatars

I mean, you don't need the latest graphics card or even a PC to access VRC, but people do get them anyway. Hell, you don't even need a VR headset... but people then spend the $250 and buy one anyway after they see the magic it offers.

And super full body tracking, the glorious 11-point tracking... it's a hard sell, but for some people, it's as magical as when they decided to buy their first VR headset after seeing what people were doing

considering that FinalIK already could support it, and people were already modding it in... there not only was enough of a request that people just did it themselves, but the support was already in the engine itself

you seem to always go back to 'on launch' and seem to 100% dodge around the obvious thing against your argument: other people were so wanting that feature, they made their own god damn platform and even modded the client to add the support by tweaking a few things. When VRC announced '10 point tracking', that's only impressive... if everyone else already didn't go past that point already

so we should all just accept our 10 point tracking and eat our vegetables, and pretend that other locations just flat out have better tracking and because they aren't VRC, we should accept our bed bath and go fuck ourselves gift cards

that's basically what you are saying

yeah, you kind of are: you are saying that when VRC announced a major update to full body tracking, that we should just accept the 10point system THEY WERE ABOUT TO LAUNCH WITH

yes, you did

the dawn of the beta for the full body system update, and people were already going "Why doesn't it support 11 when everyone else does?"

it was during a BETA, not even the official launch

again... assuming the beta was the official launch... but whatever. I'm sure doing better than your competition, as much of an uphill battle they have, is maybe a good idea as to not draw criticism. They were already called out when their one dev tried to pretend that interactable physical bones wasn't ever used on any other platform... when every other platform had it for YEARS. Same goes with 11p: trying to pretend that 10p is a major upgrade and the one that will only ever be needed... when everyone else has had 11p for YEARS as well... doesn't mean someone isn't going to notice

VRC's budget, and constant argument that it'll do fine because of all the investments, towers over everyone else... even with the scale of the platform in mind... the fact that they wanted to make a competing function... but not even meet all the way... yeah.... no.... that isn't how it works

either compete or get the fuck out of the kitchen

honestly, I'm not sure why HTC hasn't just purchased them. If they ever stopped receiving investment money, it's going to be a horror show

well... then how do investors get returns on their investments... if VRC just continues to burn money in operation fees and no income?

I could have, but that's not something you ask during an interview. I know some events they do usually have charges to the people running those events, but I can't imagine the amount charged covers bandwidth fees and server uptime costs in full.

hmm... though if that's the case... I guess vket would maybe be where a major chunk of money comes in, knowing that major companies dive into it every time...

honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if VRC's life support was vket in a way.

Maybe someone here could tell me this

Has VRC improved anything against extracting ppl's avatar data recently?

The problem with this statement is you have zero ideas what VRchat spends on overhead or what the revenue generated by VRC+ actually is. You're not basing it on anything

as a full reference, no, but I can speculate from when I used to be on prior and base expenses on knowledge from previous operations I've done in the past with server costs, and the numbers that are still presented.

...that and average avatar file sizes, which is shown in the avatar info panel when you select people

Actually... I can. That knowledge applies to pretty much everyone. Voice data still has to go somewhere, IK data has to be sent, and avatar packages still require hosting and downloading. Having knowledge on how to run a basic server for VR applications does help in knowing what to look for for estimating something like that

So basically you're basing it on anecdote and nott any actual hard facts, got it

uhuh... sure, go ahead

data is data. servers are servers. bandwidth is bandwidth. You can calculate it all the same, no matter the platform. Changes in platform only change where the data goes to. Neos is P2P, so none of it is on their end to worry about... unless it's the relay.

They pay full salary on a 40 hour work week with medical and dental with 26 days vacation

I think the medical and dental is new. I can't really recall if it was part of the offerings back in 2019 or not. Interview process was fun though and I can recommend it

Almost like their profitability increased after 3 years of operation

👀

How likely is it that Karel owns 100% of the ICO funds / NCR?

Karel holds the keys to the wallets. Whether or not Frooxius is legally entitled to any of it is the big question.

With Froox’s anti-NCR announcements, I think Karel had a pretty strong case for claiming all of it if it ends up in court.

If the predominant stance the dev team and Froox have been voicing is that they want nothing to do with NCR and painting it as a separate project from Neos itself; I can see that as a point of evidence in litigation to deny ownership of the ICO funds to Froox, the Patreon is another matter though.

Yeah, all the public declarations won't build a strong case for Froox or any of the dev team to make a claim on any part of the ICO

It's good to know that holding the keys to a wallet is not the same as actually legally owning the wallet

No one here gives a shit max

can nearly double it.

well, the actual devs are more then double very likely

Karel should just hire New devs

He has Money and Code, ignore the children

Eh. XD It's not all that irrational tbh. Get away from old technical debt, rearchitect with clearer vision of the challenges. Past me was bad at anticipating the future, current me would do well in reimplementation. Not to mention it would possibly generate good documentation >.> <.<

None

None

I might have someone pop in, but doing remote troubleshooting of their Quest. Stuck in a boot loop.

I have my work email open on an extra monitor to keep an eye on the workload for the holiday weekend

all looks good

NCR going strong

From .2 to .35

Meanwhile usd fell

You need to look at current relational gain

so what?
Write it in your diary.

Metaverse coins bleeding today. NCR holding up good

Damn, I don't get what it is with the hatred towards furries, mentors, etc. Here.

We should be focusing on the actual problems, not slapping labels on groups and hating them with a blanket.

Just because someone is a "cryptobro" does not mean they're horrible and hate neos, not all of them are against neos, just becuase someone likes crypto or NCR doesn't make them bad

And therefore, just because someone is a furry doesn't mean they are horrible and just want neos as a sex game, or hate any new people, hate crypto people, just want the game to not be capitalistic, etc.

People wanna slap labels on furries while arguing against having a label slapped on themselves when it's the same thing

I applied to become a mentor recently to help people and introduce more to the game, no matter what background, no matter who they are, no matter if they have a hard time learning or pick it up really easily

That's something I already try to do on neos anyways, and that's something I've enjoyed about the community is that I'm welcomed for that.

I've had people I don't know at all come up to me and ask me for help and I just.. Help them if I can, because I think it's best to spread kindness.

I don't care if you like crypto, I don't care if you hate Karel, whatever. What matters is the kind of person you are, and if you're kind, I don't see an issue.
I think there's atleast a bunch of people in neos who share my sentiments.

If we all sit here getting angry at eachother repeatedly it gets nowhere tbh.

I've come to neos because the communities of other similar things were more toxic.

VRChat is very exclusive in a lot of ways because people like to keep stuff hidden, people don't like to help eachother, etc.

Tower Unite, which I partook in a ton, had a community that would try and attack any furries if they got popular, and there were a lot of messed up things behind the scenes, involving like, an actual pedophile, who was also a furry, having access to the moderation systems by using exploits to the game.

???

I feel this is something which is repeated a lot and just isn't true. "VRChat is very exclusive in a lot of ways because people like to keep stuff hidden, people don't like to help eachother, etc." There are literal repositories of prefabs and tools to help people make content for VRC which people have made and shared. The help channels for VRC are normally also very active and friendly, as are the creators Discords, of which I'm in several.

I'm sorry but maybe you've had a better experience yourself, but when I've tried to partake in making vrchat content, as someone who's been in vrchat since 2017

Being told that someone knows how to do something but telling me to figure it out myself is very discouraging

Things may have changed in the past year but I got sick of that rhetoric and that's kinda why I quit and moved to tower unite

So many people worked together, granted you could do less comparatively, no VR, but there was Co op building

Neos was introduced to me by a friend from tower unite

Tower is not a furry game by far, and I didn't just make friends there because they were furries. In fact, many of the friends I made there weren't furries at all, but they were just nice people. I still talk to some of them.

The conversation with my friend in tower was like
They told me to try neos, I didn't want to cuz I couldnt afford getting my avatar ported

And they told me that they'd do it for free, and that people in neos do that for free

And I was kinda shocked at first, but now I enjoy porting people's avatars over for free, just to help people.

I've had many bad experiences with vrchat sadly, granted I joined mostly public furry related worlds, but the fact of everyone grouping up into cliques and ignoring me when I try and partake kinda hurt.

It felt like vrchat was only enjoyable if I had friends on, otherwise what was the point, meeting new people was hard

And then in non furry public worlds, people tended to be against the fact I was a furry.

And it's not like I have much to do or show, since I can't just start building stuff around others.

The best times I've had are usually when fucking around/trolling a bit in vrchat, because atleast then people don't see me as some random furry who doesn't matter, and laugh along with it.
But there's only so much of that I can do

Neos it atleast feels like people want to help, and want to make stuff together, and I feel more comfy in public worlds

I don't doubt you've had a good experience with vrchat, but sadly mine wasn't

Andrea May we get some help with that spammer?

Omg Elon bought cokey cola??
Now he buy sprite!!!
Elon drink fanter ?

I still stand by my general way of how I explain VRChat: it's a fantastic scene viewer with a built in multi-user system and VR support. When it comes to being able to view Unity created scenes, it works well, and learning Unity is readily available in many resources.

Neos is more of a Unity editor with a multi-user system. This is why being able to help people in Neos is more of the core because the editor is where you do most of the magic. VRC is where you show published work, but Neos is where you can show the work in progress.

And then there's this asshole...

I honestly agree with this. Vrchat does look better than neos in a lot of scenarios, and there is much more content. And cooler content, such as the whole jet set radio thing made, I enjoy that a lot. But alot of neos is being able to work with others, and that's something amazing.

Well yeah. That doesn't hang the fact the non furry communities in vrchat that I've been around tend to just try and troll if you're a furry, or just insult you, push you away, whatever

Or the whole block immediately if you're a furry type people

not really. It goes hand in hand. I used to do public hopping and sometimes you find cool places and people, and sometimes you find people who only prove that accessing online resources should require the equal of a driver's license.

Tower unite had those but...in a lesser amount tbh

A lot lesser

The people who made fun of me for being a furry would do it in a way where they're trying to laugh along with me, or try and make stupid jokes about furries with me, even if they weren't a fan of furries

And then neos, the public worlds, even the mostly furry ones, aren't nearly as clique-y as vrchat's that I've seen

I don't like to limit my range to furry communities, the only reason in vrchat I ended up doing that is because outside of furry communities people didn't really seem to like me

That's definitely not true, it's *incredibly* clique'y but you're likely there enough to be part of it or not notice.

Whereas when I was in Tower, people enjoyed hanging out regardless of who you were

I mean, even when I first joined

I was welcomed to hanging with people

Then again, I was wanting to learn to create so i don't know if it's like

The clique is more creator centric / people interested in creating

I think that makes more sense in another way. When I upload content to VRChat, you have to 'publish' the content into the system's storage. When a world is created or updated, it is also published. Finished works are desired in their system, or mostly complete ones.

Neos is when you have the editor still open. It could be complete, but it also might not be. As a result, things look unfinished at times... because they are. It might also mean that people come in, see something unfinishsed someone is working on, but then duck out because of the 'unfinished' feeling of it all.

There's people who watch hour long videos of people working on sculptures or various art projects. The uncut footages of intensive work. Some people just go to galleries to appreciate the finished work.

But in vrchat it was groups of friends chilling

With neos.. Yeah as of late I've gotten to know alot of people so I've made friends, but that's only as of late

Before then I still hung out in the public worlds, hosted my own, and people joined even if they didn't know me

Most of the times I'm excluded in neos are in private worlds, to be completely honest

That I do see a lot. Problem is I've done my best to keep my doors open in my worlds, but I'm usually doing boring work that isn't very entertaining. Fixing a program for websocket communications, adjusting the logix, fixing an avatar for someone... nothing with massive pizzazz.

I never said it was most user's.

I said the non furry communities I've been around

I said it was my experience lol

It's a completely honest statement that that was my experience

And due to the security, or lack thereof, working on a world with "the door open" so to speak is inviting disaster and given the lack of version control, it would be easy to lose days, weeks or even months of work.

oh here we go again... furries evil... ah...

okay I'm done pretending that mattered in the slighest

I do work on stuff in public worlds myself, but I tend to save often

I agree the inventory management and stuff needs to be worked on

Version control.needs.to be a thing.

On larger projects especially, you could be saving mangled worlds without even realising it.

Eh fair... would be neat to have a git like system, especially for headless, where it'd be maybe a bit easier to add?

That makes sense, what I do though is if a lot of people were in the world, I save a copy

Just to be safe

Only takes one rogue avatar...

It's annoying as hell to deal with, I'll be honest

But I prefer working with others in public worlds because it just.. It's nice to be open

yeah. I do have my headless set in a container to auto-backup on its own, so in a way, I do have a history system... but it's hit and miss

Neos needs a lot of things to change, mind you. And I agree with that.

I don't use a headless so that might be part of what makes it easier for me

Granted I want to move to one
But I think headless servers definitely need more work

The headless is barely functional and feels like it continues to run on sheer luck a lot of the time. Also if you use your headless to save, it'll often get stuck as it will conflict with itself.

I don't think neos is perfect tbh
And it most certainly isn't

Building on neos is hell compared to tower unite, but I enjoy it more than vrchat, especially because I can test without having to wait for the build process,and I can do everything in the game, and with others.

Tbh, there is a lot in neos that needs to be fixed

But blaming it on the furries
Blaming it on the crypto fans

Either way is stupid

You don't need to wait for the build process in Unity. Play mode works for most cases and there's CyanTester for other testing now too for a full run.

Because in the end that doesn't help anything, and if there were no furries, the game would still probably be in this mess
If there was no crypto fans, this game would probably still be in this mess

Play mode doesn't work very well for avatars atleast, testing a lot of stuff with them

From when I've used it anyways

Grabbing bones works in Play mode, as does moving them around.

Animations don't fully work, plus it's not accurate to what it'd look like in vrchat

I've seen things look fine in the play mode but then I build it and I need to redo because it didn't look right

So I learned to not trust it cuz I've had bad luck

Having my own vision occluded or something else going horribly wrong has been more of an issue trying to work on avatars in Neos and then losing progress from that.

I've had mroe issues with vrchat but

I am also not very experienced in unity

I'm not a game dev

Neos I picked up on much easier than unity, that's something I can say is a big plus about neos

Maybe its' just my experience from SL and having a flaky connection, but I'm used to having to work around those kind of issues with scripts and the like. Don't get me wrong, I wish I didn't have to but... saving often is something I just got used to... though having a proper backup system, well... we all do agree Neos could really use some kind of staging system or at least the options for it.

Most of the time if I wanna do something in unity I somehow end up screwing it up and having to start from scratch because otherwise my changes don't work

After doing that like ten or so times, and anytime I asked people for help people wanted money, I just gave up and.said I'd pay people to do what I want done.

And just get the work done by others

You say you picked it up more, but are you doing anything more than the absolute basics? I feel 99.9% in Neos aren't, because the tools are so incredibly basic and barebones and would drive most people insane trying to do anything complicated or extensive with them.

I mean I'm definitely doing more than absolute basics

Using logix, creating stuff

I'm not doing super complicated things yes

I'm not building all out systems or anything

But I'm doing the same things I was attempting to do in vrchat

I'm used to both. I don't have the options to test avatars as well as I need to, namely with FBT stuff, but thankfully VRC did add the test publish function, which is usually enough for me to fiddle with things until they work right. It'd be neater to have a more direct link, though, as having to put an avatar on and off... when the client should just acknowledge the change in a test file... is kind of annoying

One thing I've noticed is that replacing models with like.. An extra material slot added or.. A blendshape modified in unity requires you to redo everything

Whereas in neos, you can update the mesh easily