Reports I hear are "Damn, it was such a nightmare, I almost sent it to the wrong address and lost it all" and in one case, actually did send it to the wrong place and lost like greater than 8k because of it

Or "I got hit so hard with taxes" or "It took forever to get out and by the time it actually processed it I had lost like 2k already" or "I had to actually literally ask a financial professional how to use crypto" etc. etc. because it's a complicated to get your shit out

I can't blame people for wanting to get the hell out of dodge

That crypto though.
I've used it, spent it, earned it, etc. It was always super easy to make a mistake and send it to the wrong place with no recovery or undo options. It's the nature of the beast.

And it's precisely why it isn't mainstream, and why those who learned about what it really meant to use it wanted out

It's basically turbo stocks with no safeguards, and a speedrun of why we have those safeguards in the first place

But to my original point - just because the team probably got a lot of NCR doesn't necessarily mean anything. A shitload of people got a shitload of money from NCR and wanted nothing to do with it after that

Honestly, I remember in Neos people would just use paypal for commissions instead of using the built in NCR system. I think it was driven more by the fact that doing paypal was literally just a couple of clicks to send money to someone and trying to convert money to NCR and back was overly complicated.

Crypto was on a huge bubble once yes. Thankfully it popped and we can buy GPUs again without needing a second mortgage.

My point about NCR wasn't that I blame the devs for wanting it gone, it's that I feel something isn't right with the money side of things and I'm just trying to make sense of it.

I think Neos needed to fix the NCR user experience and I still do.

It should be as easy as using PayPal

Yeah unfortunately, it's nature of the beast.

Crypto is nice and all but people do get stung by the whole conversation to and from real.money thing and rightfully so. It is complicated and often quite lossy

If not easier.

If it were stable currency I would agree

I also shouldn't have to pay more taxes or fees than I do using PayPal

I wasn't around during its high point and I would have loved to see how the buyback program worked.
I know I can read about it but it's different to do it.

My personal warning bell with NCR is the word Ethereum. I feel like so many scams have used the Ethereum Blockchain that I just don't trust it anymore.

Pump and dumps hmmm could be standalone with their own forks or use the eth blockchain

When NCR was doing well, the experience looked like this:

Step 1: Get a Coinbase account
Step 2: Buy ETH
Step 3: Transfer ETH to an external wallet, while making sure I have enough ETH to cover the transaction fee
Step 4: Go to Uniswap
Step 5: Find the NCR/ETH pair
Step 6: Find out the amount of NCR I would like to swap for
Step 7: Get the in-game wallet address
Step 8: Send NCR to in-game wallet with further gas fees.

So yeah. I feel like the inclusion of the tron Blockchain can sometimes help a bit since it's always cheaper.

I forget what it was but there was a coin I had and you could get the tron version or the eth version. Both were the same and held roughly the same value but trading on the tron network was much for affordable.

And of course, trying to figure out how much money you spent before going through that process was really awkward and not precise.

Sounds about right.

I avoid eth for its insane transaction prices. Or as you correctly called it "gas fees"

And I'm being really generous when I say "get a coinbase account" is a single step. Because commonly, you get asked to provide photos of yourself holding your government id etc.

I know, I have a Coinbase account. I think I have some meme coin on there

But yeah.

The discord was still unlocked then. If you cared about people knowing why didn't you make a post. And if it was really important to you why haven't you mentioned the fact that the hot fix has been linked like twelve times in here and they've yet to pin it. I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad at the old devs.

Tbh coinbase could have it's own 6 or 7 seriously step tutorial tbh. Definitely time consuming at the very least

I brought it up on the discord a few times. I did come here about it but the creator jam people put out their post maybe less than an hour before hand

I also said that whoever at neos isn't clean and gave an example of how they could have put in a fix themselves.

I don't use telegram much generally. Really just checking in here to see what's going on and the odd creator I follow. I think over half of the messages I've ever sent on telegram have been sent here

URGENT: Critical libwebp Vulnerability Patch for Neos

Neos uses a library called FreeImage which is impacted by a critical libwebp vulnerability (CVE-2023-5129 / CVE-2023-4863). Frooxius has patched FreeImage and has provided the source code on the YDMS GitHub. https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

Below you will find a copy of FreeImage.dll which has been compiled from the patched source above. You must replace all copies of the FreeImage.dll file in your copy of Neos in order to mitigate the vulnerability. Alternatively, you may use the FreeImage.dll file from your Beta copy of Resonite.

We highly recommend that you apply this patch immediately before using Neos.

Patch Instructions for Steam

Open the Steam Library page for Neos, then click on the gear and choose Manage -> Browse local game files.
Overwrite the FreeImage.dll file located in the following paths with the patched dll.

Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
Tools
Tools\AdminX
Tools\Minecraft2Neos

Patch Instructions for Standalone (downloaded from neos.com)

Browse to the install path of your Neos standalone, substitute C:\Neos with the path you installed Neos to.
Overwrite the FreeImage.dll file located in the following paths with the patched dll.

C:\Neos
C:\Neos\app\Neos_Data\Plugins\x86_64
C:\Neos\app\Tools
C:\Neos\app\Tools\AdminX
C:\Neos\app\Tools\Minecraft2Neos

Ydm pushed a patch that works with a game they'd already quit deving for. I think this covers the bases plenty. The real issue here is why the current team has done nothing to highlight a fix.

But still fair point. Hopefully people have it patched and the information is available to people sticking their head back into neos to see how it is after X amount of time.

Doesn't matter according to the official neos team this is their only form of communication side from email. That discord was unoffical lol

They did what they could

I know that, so why couldn't the old devs done a ping or leave a notification somewhere? If it's unofficial then they don't have to work for neos to do that

I suspect they gave all the resources to fix it and assumed the current devs would fix it in an official capacity

Because they left before the issue was found. They pinged official channels in order to give the new dev and the current owners a chance to fix it.

Faster than me lol

🤷‍♂

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.
Besides how is the current neos team to fix the issue with froox and friends are holding onto login info to the steam?

That's not how steam works

Well funny you should ask. Pretty sure someone here linked to the recovery info page.

steam works projects or companies are assigned to steam users, it can even be requested by a company using their official email

They're not responsible for fixing neos anymore, but they've done 3/4 the footwork anyway. I think that's more than enough.

Steam does not allow sharing of accounts.

Yes indeed.

I do know a bit about how steam works on the dev side. I know that the neos people have had more than enough time to get into manage the neos VR on steam.

But it does seem to be regarded as a third.party client at this stage by the neos people's. Which is a bit ahhh, a little BS but whatever.

It does appear to be that both sides have left the neos files on steam to rot, with the people on the neos side keeping the servers alive.

There's no third-party client. There are 2 official clients. The steam release and the website version. They've not updated either and don't plan on it.

Just posting a small screenshot because I am a dev on steam. https://ash.tips/20231022133843BAdMx.png

But yeah, I've had to recover access to games/companies before and it's really not that much effort, it's just a support ticket away and using an e-mail from the company domain.

They're not updating because in their eyes it's a non issue. The only thing they're concerned with is Cooper's planet, staking, and the UI for some reason.

Cool, I know they can recover and get into to manage the files.

I would like to remind people here that all I asked was for a post to be made on the discord and why wasn't it done.

I did say how the neos people could at least patch the website files and gave an untested overview as to how.

I did say that the old devs were in a position to update but also said on the discord that they could be foolish to touch the files on steam now. I don't know how they have things set up or what agreements have been made.

I never said the old devs are guilty of *blank* just saying I felt it would be morally correct to leave a post on the discord with a link to work done for them by the community (ie, they could wash their hands of responsibility of it not working or being malicious)

I'm getting a little bored of this now and I'm off to do something else. Take that for whatever you choose

As far as I can tell the exploit is first mentioned in here a week after the team resigned but a week before they locked the unofficial discord. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything just trying to get the timelines proper.

And actually digging thru the discord they did ping everyone. Medra did in the user creations with the patch.

The discord has been abandoned and archived, which was properly announced by those who were running the discord.

"Very much alive" Looks at player count at a peak of 15 player in a day. Checks out

It released publicly on the 6th dear

What is the plan for the dev team to boost the player count to make a crypto based game practical? Also whats the plan for fixing the current security vulnerabilities? I feel like a roadmap should be announced regardless of size vs only answering on q/a basis. Also whats the plan to recover the pr between the playerbase and dev team?

What we've heard is that you can buy storage with NCR and there will be a new client in Unreal Engine

I feel the dev team should be hyping the community for the new move @-@

Or at least hire someone for pr to help bring whats left of the community together

I think that's Andrea.

Right now its nothing but people going at eachothers throats with the devs kinda just like sitting in the back reponding when they feel its convenient. I understand theyre busy with development but having a dedicated pr person is vital given the current state of upheaval.

But then again its not my fight and im just giving my 2 cents

The devs aren't even here, just Karel and Andrea.

I know lol

But theyre pretty much all thats left atm

I thought they had that person doing the UE client, but not in public.

I mean anyone could say that to reassure someone. But lets assume there isba dev in the background. Wouldnt some sort of proof of progress or announcements be important?

Even if its just a screenshot or some variety

Also wouldnt they want to steer towards protecting their current client given the massive hole in security seeing its just swapping a file?

Andrea says that the project is very much alive and far from dead, and that they have have some small teasers from "Cooper’s Planet" in production which they will share soon

A reddit AMA with the dev would be amazing.

Very much alive with a playerbase of 4 people online and a dev team who doesnt communicate. Righttttt

Andrea also says that if they are quiet, it means they are working.

But lets assume it is alive and that the ignoring of security patches further damaging pr is the plan of action

Life support is still alive technically

I know

Thats why you have a pr team member whos not an active dev

Person who specifically deals with interacting with the community

I don't think Andrea is a developer

I genuinely don't know what she does other than PR.

A good pr team would really help honestly

See they go silent for a week at a time though

A good pr team doesnt just go silent

Sorry this is my two cents as an admin and PR team member for a network of groups

You dont have a project without your playerbase. And starting from a completely new base makes the prior members who stuck around feel abandoned

I can only give you the information they've provided. I suspect they don't really care too much about the previous users leaving the platform as in their view I think they believe, the platform doesn't seem ready for users to begin with.

So we just ditch the people who stuck around for crypto and leave them in the dark till were ready?

I was talking about the members who stayed not the ones who left

I think the goal is to show something when they've built it rather than talk, lead on etc.

All im saying is they need a better pr team by relsease otherwise its not gonna take off

Anyhow my foods here

Either way we've got like 2 months and change before they'll have anything ready according to their last post

Message from ⦺ ⍝'irick'⊣'corwal'⍝ has been deleted because it contains swear words (???)

*eyeroll*

This community deserves better. They deserve a development team that shares their vision and is open about their process. They deserve a community management methodology that cultivates creativity rather than stifling it. They deserve people in charge of the project that aren't so myopicly attached to brand control that they won't even allow self-expression.

Neos has utterly failed to live up to its mandate and I am furious for those who stuck around to see this.

Careful wording to ignore his resignation? Really?

When did he resign officially?

Like, if you know the specific date that is

The announcement came way after the initial paperwork back in January according to documents posted by Karel iirc

Froox resigned in January?

According to the papers

lets assume the original devs were really in a legal bind and halted development of the engine until they were able to. When they dropped resonite finally wouldnt there be more proof of progress and distinction other then a UI swap? looks to me like everything that was done to differentiat resonite from neos could have been done in a week or two with a good ui dev. there is no real core upgrades to show so it makes you wonder were they actually even doing anything to begin with or just doing nothing at all and blaming the other side.

You clearly haven't touched protoflux yet

I have not actually dug depp to be totally fair BUT from what i saw it still suffered from the same issues of logix and also just basically looked like a reskin. but to be fair i need to give it more of a chance still. but i mean come one still cant do simple things like search nodes and components that everyone mods for for years anyway you would think all the QOL mods would have made it to this release

We can now run synced it asynchronous calls using flux. The update isn't something that's easily visible but it's there. A lot of backend stuff as I understand it.

So are you just relying on something someone told you changed and hoping they were right or do you understand the system enough to know there is a real change?

I've literally been messing with it since they opened beta

cause they could say they changed things and if you dont know how to really use proto and logix youd never know if they really did or not

right but have you used or seen the new features used at all somewhere?

Yes.

can you point me to where?

to be clear im not trying to be neagtive i ganueinly wanna see improvement and havent yet

wow i butched that word haha

Lmfao Check their discord there's tons of stuff there I'm not about to do this here. I'm already pretty sure I'm on thin ice

Seriously there are entire threads explaining the difference

oh i have im in there but i have yet to see anything that wasnt already possible in neos and ive actually had a small performance decrease which im assuming is from the change in color space of the render engine

gonna have to go dig

I also remember they were talking about the asset system no longer duplicating items that are already saved.

There's a ton of small things man but the biggest difference is it's getting updates.

Where as *gestures vaguely* this.

see i still find it hard to believe tbh cause all of these "Updates" could just be then moving the system, they clearly just ported neos and had to make all new DBs and such and then dupe the olds with the migration tool and all that so all these "updates" could really be just "updates" to the currently system that isnt finished being entirely ported

"ported"

What? That's not at all how systems work.

Moving the system?

Read a change log

It's literally documented

Neos got you so burned that you don't trust change logs?

no no lol its not about neos getting burned its about not just accepting what people tell me when my eyes and own logic show me otherwise. like i said i have benefit of the doubt and i want to see it grow but as it stand from a users standpoint nothing has changed but the nail polish

Your input is limited unless you have eyes on the code. Seriously read the changelogs. They're making changes.

Hell the updates channel is so full I was scrolling the majority of the time you were typing your last message

so far i have yet to see resonite do a single thing neos didnt already now

the change log isnt the code

I can watch YouTube videos without manually updating dlls.

the change log is a dev saying trust me bro until you can actaully see a change

Neos can't do that

I can import blend files again

You're impossible lmfao

im interested to see that, i could always import blend files??, wasnt the default tutorial browse buiolt on youtube videos i ddint update anything for that to work? i still cant use vrms

Hell they updated freeimage lmfao 😂

No you can't

Try it in neos with anything saved in the last what 4 versions of blender

ok fair thats cause blenders python api changed alot but thats not a huge deal i code blender python if i had neoses source i can fix that probably in a day or two

And YouTube videos quit working a few months back they didn't patch ytdlp I think it is.

"If I had neos source" 😂😂😂😂😂

If neos had the source this wouldn't be happening

But they don't /shrug

lmfao there is a source thats what they used to make resonite lmfao they dont cause froox has it

if there was no source where did resonite come from

he didnt make it from sctah again

Froox engine =! Neos

please explain

Froox engine is what it's based on. It's like an engine within the engine. It's what makes logix and most ingame functions possible. That's fully distinct from neos.

Afaik that's what they used. But I'm not a dev and have no actual insight here.

no it isnt thats legal technicality. the whole thing is built on Unity to start, all he did was build a system in unity to expose the values to runtime users and turn it inside out. that system of exposing the stuff to runtime is what they refer to as "Froox engine" and they did all of this for the purpose of building the platform that became neos. froox engine IS neos without that there is nothing literally.

now afaik there was a court case over this i think

Wrong. Froox engine was developed separately. It was something he was working on preneos. And it has been used for other projects as well. See Durian.

Also wrong. Karel has said repeatedly they're not pursuing it because it's not financially viable. But I suspect it's because they know they're not in a position to win.

where do i see durian i search google and its all a board game

Hmm honestly I only know about durian from the other discord. It's a game similar to neos/reso and also had account migration to resonite.

no hes right its not financially a good idea you know how long the case will take and how much it will cost both sides? thats the point its such a grey area the legal case would take years and thousands of dollars and could go either way. it might be in neos best interest to just say screw it and take that money and pay a dev

i have heard of Durian but i thought it was like the alpha name for neos when they were still doing the university shows and using the platform for schools

i thought durian became neos but i could be wrong

It was still running apparently as it had account migration features

I think it was a testing platform more than anything, never heard of it until right before reso was publicly announced

well there is no sign of it anywhere on the internet so far

It's also connected to a previous planned name for reso that didn't end up being used for whatever reason

🤷‍♂ honestly not sure just know there was a feature to import it's accounts as well

they were probably names that froox was using to label updates

But I don't think it's connected to neos so...

like androids cupcake for example

Then why would it require migration

cause resonite does?

lol

Nope

haha do you not undersatnd that?

Resonite doesn't have to migrate on updates

It has its own cloud servers disconnected from the other two

could have been froox testing DB migration from neos

It's a separate service

Maybe

its obviously not if you cant find it

🙄

A private service that isn't connected to anything else? That's never happened before.

my guess is they were code names for update tests and the reason for migration and a seperate cloud was for testing the migration in a sandboxed env that wouldnt affect neos or reso

that makes sense to me atleast

Then why leave it in the launch?

leave what?

Migration options for durian. If it was a testing thing everyone who had a Durian account would already be transferred

no cause the clouds are seperate

I think it was their first go at hosting things themselves so they could better prepare

my guess is to sandbox tests

right it was a test env

thats what im saying

🤷‍♂ lmfao either way migration is a feature neos lacks. That's clearly an update right?

hahahah no it actually theft IMO

kinda

Lmfao of ugc

its data that no longer belonged to them

Mind showing me where you're getting that from?

It's not like it's data the users would want to carry over to an actively developing platform with a proven dev team

imagine the dev from amazon left and scraped amazon customer db and built resonozon

UGC=UGC if the data wasn't theirs they couldn't delete it. Or shouldn't charged for storage for it.

i dont understand what you mean

Imagine if Amazon refused to pay its employees a proper wage and was a small enough company that the dev team leaving could gut it.

It's pulling the data from the neos servers upon request using credentials the user actively puts in?

Well Froox owns the rights so it’d be Bezos leaving Amazon and taking the warehouses and making Nozema

If that's theft, copying your own files to a USB drive is theft, bozo.

chill no need to be uncivil thats why i said kinda, it is and it isnt. technically the owner of the data is the owner of the database. so who actually owns the cloud PC running the DB?

It's still my data that I uploaded. I should have the right to use my data however I please.

If Google said "hey, this file you uploaded to your drive? You can only view it through our page, and you can't download it" people would not be happy

if the cloud pc that house neoses db is owned by neos then taking the data to use for other reasons elsewhere is TECHNICALLY theft. reso didnt do that they were clever nstead what they did was facilitate for YOU to "steal" your own data. Ownership of data(sadly) doesnt work that way just cause you put it there doesnt make it yours.

It accesses the data the same exact way the client does

So if I upload something pirared karel is reasonable?

Anyone got a link to starfield

yes 100% if you upload something illegal the server owner is responsible for not moderating and taking it off 100%

"It's Karels data, unless it causes problems for him!"

you will both have an issue

Pretty sure you're way offbase with this

so you telling me if host a db for people and they host cp your not responsible?

So if you can show me in the Eula where my data belongs to karel I'll drop it

But honestly if it's not in the Eula it's not his

thats the catch it has to be in the terms of service you are correct so lets go look

"You are not permitted to:
Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"

O.o software is the game

there it is you could make the arguement the DB is part of the software and is being translated and transfered to a different software

Nope

And even then there are generally exceptions regarding licensing in game. I.e. if I released something I created as cc by nc sa and it was uploaded they'd be in violation of that unless they open sourced everything.

what do you mean nope

I mean nope

the DB is in fact essential to the game

lets go further

Software has a definition in the eula

What is the definition

"You are not permitted to:
Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"

That being said every mod and modmaker is in violation of this

whoops resent on accident h/o

"This EULA agreement shall apply only to the Software supplied by Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. herewith regardless of whether other software is referred to or described herein. The terms also apply to any Solirax CoreDev s.r.o. updates, supplements, Internet-based services, and support services for the Software, unless other terms accompany those items on delivery. If so, those terms apply."

Boilerplate stuff I'm guessing

Yea that doesn't cover my data

yes it does "internet based services" is the cloud db that houses the data

Matter of fact. "only to software supplied by"

No it doesn't

You're mistaken

It literally says in plain text this only applies to what is shipped

they are supplying the users with the DB lol yes it does the DB is infact a core part of the software they supply the usert

They're not supplying the code that runs the DB, only the content within the DB

The db is not shipped software

Literally says supplied software.

its an "internet-based service" that the ship software is inherently reliant on

Sucks that they didn't hire someone with better knowledge of eulas but currently that doesn't work for data

Also, wouldn't being able to, y'know, upload to the DB break that EULA if what you said was true?

Oh shit ya

That's editing

no cause you are permitted access as per use in the software

Or even load anything off of it, which isn't even modifying

"You are not permitted to:
Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"

Nope

Again. That's not for data it's for the game itself

you can do all those thing as long as you do it within the bound of neos using it for anyhtnig else is the violation

Doesn't say that

It says you can't

Like literally you are not permitted to.

re read that

"You are not permitted to:
Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"

"You are not permitted to:"

you are only restricted IF you allow it to be "to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things"

Nope

as in you can do all these thing IN NEOS

Try again

yes lmfao what do you mean thats literally what it says

It would be and not or

wtf you mean no

This is specific for program but not the data

it does not say that and all implications say otherwise

There are places that specifically own your content check like the Minecraft data pack stuff but their Eula actually accounts for stuff like this

Hell Roblox even iirc but no this is for software not data

That text is meant to keep you from modifying the client

Not transferring ownership of your data

let me ask you a question.

No

It really feels like you're just mad people are able to leave

Not allowed

if you woke up tomorrow and all the DBs wer wiped can you call the cloud server and have them recover your personal data? when they make those kind of descisions can you even stop them in anyway?

if the answer is no then its not YOUR data

I have a backup of my neos account

Which is why we're making our own copies of our data

It was like 19 gigs

not your computer not your data period UNLESS that is specifally stated in the EULA

Hell, neos gives you a way to get a copy of your entire account over email

for sure you should DEF have backups

and you taking your backup elsewhere is totally cool

BUT scraping THIER could is not the same

I literally do have it on my computer there is an account downloader tool and since karels mentioned mods are okay that eula is pretty irrelevant

no it isnt irrelevent at all he permitted a specific use case that honestly should have been update in the EULA also

Can't have your CEO contradict the eula in a public place

@HowieDuhzit Nothing?

Right they are allowing it and facilitating it, resonite is doing it without permission and they are using third party software to facilitate it

You're really confident about how they're doing it for someone who doesn't have access to their code base

There is a difference between data that is legally yours and data you have custody of. While you don’t have custody of your NeosDB data, it is legally yours to do with what you wish. The Resonite migration process is basically you giving Resonite permission you utilize that right on your behalf

what do you mean lmfao i dont need access to the codebase to know that them giving you access to their own db isnt the same as someone else doing it

There's nothing stopping cloud hosts like drive or dropbox from locking off your data, do you own the data you upload to said sites?

where does it say this?

i cant find anything about the ownership of the data

and posession is 9/10 of the law

It really isn't tho

no not at all that my point

So you just... Lose ownership of the data you upload when you upload it somewhere?

Data ownership - Toolkit

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://toolkit.ncats.nih.gov/glossary/data-ownership/%23:~:text%3DData%2520ownership%2520refers%2520to%2520both,these%2520access%2520privileges%2520to%2520others.&ved=2ahUKEwjU3cPw_oyCAxXdkYkEHZj6CykQFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0RD5-6aqLIDcSnEkJLv0sq

What we're doing is redownloading data we uploaded ourselves

yes you do you lose ownership of the particualr data file and gain access

Data ownership refers to both the possession of and responsibility for information. Data owners have the ability to access, create, modify, package, derive benefit from, sell, or remove data, as well as the right to assign these access privileges to others.

So you no longer own the models you've uploaded to neos? That doesn't sound right

this is from the dept of health and human service this doesnt apply the same this is VERY different

Is your profile picture on neos the same as it is here?

It's the us governments official stance on data my guy

Cuz if so, you don't own that data and aren't allowed to have it on your computer

Hell, you uploaded it to TGs servers. You don't own that profile picture anymore.

Hell delete your neos cache your in violation

correct you do not own that file any longer, you could own a copy you could own the original and you could have full access but you dont not have possesion and ownership of that version

you missing the point its not about IP its about physical file possesion

And what differentiates a copy over an original if they're identical?

See this is "why I don't argue nfts with cryptobros" all over again

nothing

Ip is 9/10 the law

So why are they treated differently

thats why i said if you had your own backup theres no issue

But they're identical?

You said yourself nothing differentiates them

5.1 Certain features and/or portions of the Neos Metaverse may permit you to upload, post or otherwise transmit your own content (hereinafter referred to as the “User Content”). For the avoidance of any doubt we acknowledge, that any User Content remains yours and that we do not gain any rights and/or possession of your User Content, unless expressly provided in these ToU.

The last sentence is boilerplate. Nowhere else in the terms does it give exceptions to this rule

HMMMM

It's solved then

Shiny

Howie, we own our data.

Your content is yours, meaning you can do whatever you want with it. Including allowing a different service to take it and upload it to itself

perfect this is it thank you

Also the rule about decompiling Neos was confirmed by former devs to be boilerplate

So it sucks that users are taking their toys and leaving but it kinda is what it is

The team never took action against people who did so, and that clause has been removed from the Resonite TOS explicitly

where is that rule i want to read more on it out of curiosity cause i couldnt find that

https://wiki.neosvr.com/Terms_of_Use

That’s what the NeosVR site links to

ok cool now can someone link me to proof of difference between neos and reso other than UI and color grading

The act of migrating your account from your end is totally Kosher. Wonder if anything in the ToS doesn’t allow for the Resonite servers to scrape said content on the behalf of other users who have given explicit consent to do so

this is exactly what i was tryin to say

If you want to see with your own two eyes,

https://github.com/dnSpy/dnSpy

The internal reworks? The brand new servers? Karel having no rights to froox engine anyways?

im glad someone understand

Have fun. Inspect the Resonite vs Neos assemblies for yourself if you don’t trust the words of others

Everyone arguing against you has been working on the assumption that that you knew that, and in fact, I mentioned it in case you didn't know it.

Also protoflux is entirely different. Iirc this one operates entirely in a VM and runs code without needing to interpret it, leading to a lot more speed

It may look similar, but the inner workings which you don’t see are entirely different. Entire FrooxEngine subsystems like BaseX are not present in Resonite

Again there's always the changelogs.

A lot of the user facing elements use the same layouts, but internally a lot is reworked

Oh and keep in mind that you’re violating NeosVR TOS by opening the assemblies in dnSpy. Whether anyone cares is a different story

no no thats not what i mean, i mean user end changes im sure there was some backend things but nothing that is apparent on the user end, in fact now i see like a 10 frame drop from neos. so if anything on the user end its shinier and runs a lil worse atleast in my experience

You can't really own a method of interacting with a program anyways? It's like saying messaging platforms like this are exclusively only able to be made by cell providers or something

The new user experience is entirely revamped, several changes to UI and the building experiences which make it so much nicer to use is present, new components allowing behavior not possible in Neos are also there

This too.

Yeah that too. It could literally be bit for bit the Neos codebase except with no mention of Neos and be legal. Froox owns the code, Karel confirmed that a while ago and it’s why he wants open sourcing so bad

And just because something looks the same doesn't necessarily mean it's the same.

All cars go vroom but there's substantial differences under the hood. And I'm not talking between like, toyota and maserati

mazerati?

I’m guessing some kind of deal was struck behind closed doors, as Neos is still distributing Froox’s code on their website and through steam. I also theorize that’s why they cannot update freeimage even though the fix is right on GitHub. That modifying the codebase in any way would violate this theoretical agreement

Honestly there's so much that goes into a platform like this that users, and even the people running platforms, often take for granted the work devs are doing. AAA has it everywhere.

No I had it right it's maserati.

That's a weird word to look at

Their cars look kinda weird too but that's an unpopular opinion hehe

Shrug a car's a car I plan to only buy used because buying fresh and then agonizing over every lil potential ding or scrape or whatver would be too stressful

As someone who got one recently, I feel this

So to preface, resonite is offtopic to here

That said, Flux is significantly more performant and better prepared compared to logix.
Comparing Neos's cloud to Resonites is another easy one to see where theres just a gigantic gap. as a lot of synchronization blockers that exist in one just dont exist in the other, file uploads are more efficient and mass file upload jobs will complete correctly instead of taking half a day of manual intervention to complete.

And thats only some of the ways Resonite is significantly different and better than Neos.

I understand you may not have looked into it much but i have a lot of time using both Neos and Now Resonite and while there is some issues shared and performance of course can always be improved, the claim that the changes couldve been done in a few weeks is silly

I can buy more storage with NCR on Neos

Привет всем есть телеграм только Resonite? (Hello everyone, is there a telegram only for Resonite?)

Not officially, no.

There is an unofficial one. Message me @Kodufan and I can give you access

Well... Multiple unofficial ones

I’ll make another one sec

give access

No, only cool people allowed in. No furry people:P

😮 I can shave but it'll grow back in like a week

iwish i could just get rid of all my hair foreever without oaying for laser hair removal

Eating Nair doesn't work. Just a heads up

First thing you should do then is ban yourself in it

I was glancing too quick at this chat and was about to be super surprised about an Ea-Nasir reference in here

2 things 1 if there was a place for an ea-nasir reference it would be neos. I could totally see a clay complaint about karel. And now the chat has an ea-nasir reference.

Exactly, I could see Ea-Nasir memes here if images weren't banned 😂

Hey Guys, Is there a way to Get files from neos back to my pc? I've had a HDD fail on me and the files are still on the server?

Iirc you can open the file tab dragging the item and click the + button.

in game?

Do I have to be on lynix for that or can I do it in game? I'm on windows

Just checking trying to get files off neos inventory back onto my drive

you can do that on any OS - spawn out the item from inventory, then grab it in world, then click the + button on the Files tab where you want to export it to. not everything exports the same manner (for instance if materials were changed)

Okays I'll try it :D

Thank you

On skinned meshes, weight painting doesn't export

Yeah That's annoying but its alright i'll have to find time to jump in and export the textures " I can download my model of gumtree"

Thank you guys

Hi everyone. Little bit of news to share, Stardust mining on Cooper's Planet in Neos is set to launch on January 1st 2024. We're excited to give you a little preview of what's to come.☺️ 🚀https://twitter.com/neos_vr/status/1717118319092769189?s=20

What happened to original neos project and dev team?

open "Where is everyone?" in neos and check it.that's all.

Eh?

None

I can't speak for every individual on the previous team, but I believe most have left to work on a platform that they feel is more aligned with their vision, which is fine☺️

Things can coexist without interfering with each other in a long term, as we are focused on making Neos more accessible, interesting and fun to a broader audience.

Ok. What about previous developement - so you started from the very beginning buiding completely new system based on unreal engine?

We have an Unreal client in development, but we're also actively planning other initiatives to ensure that Neos is optimized for broad adoption. Our ultimate goal is to open-source the project once we've made sufficient progress.

So yes, many things require fresh start but also this is an opportunity to iterate and improve.

So you dont build anything on previous system? Because on neos website is this “Have you ever wanted to create your own virtual world? Neos is built to offer maximum flexibility and creative control. With its powerful engine, Neos provides you with everything you need to create incredible virtual worlds and experiences. Set up your avatar completely in game, collaborate in real-time, import any 3D asset in seconds, and bring your creations to life with advanced visual scripting tools.”

Is this statement valid atm?

There will be a roadmap outlining the direction at some point soon as well ☺️

You can do all of this on NeosVR so I don't see a problem with this statement?

I dont know, im just asking. So its neos own engine or unreal engine?

Neos had its own very unique engine as i remeber and it was the only reason why it was so famous. You replacing it with something else as i understand correctly?

We are not replacing the engine. NeosVR can still exist alongside other initiatives. The mining experience on Cooper's Planet will be available in NeosVR as well. Initially anyway.
We're fully aware of specific challenges of current client, such as the webp security issue, and we are looking for ways of how this could be resolved. Things would be of course easier if we had more support from the previous team.
But we remain optimistic about overcoming obstacles. ☺️

Ok. So does anyone develops or supports neos original and unique engine?

Tomas and the previous team have all the means of doing so. However, I'm not sure how much they're actually doing. We were open to collaborating and would love to continue the development or at least some form of communication, and we have indicated this many times, but it seems like there isn't much interest or motivation on their end. I could be wrong of course.

So the previous system is dead (at least from a development perspective). What makes the "new neo" based on the unreal engine unique compared to other solutions?

And also, I dont think open sourcing a unreal engine game will ever be possible.

Has anyone looked in the discord since september? Maybe check the announcement channel to see how much they'll put toward neos at this point?

I was silence from NeosVR discord 😡

“Looking for ways it could be resolved”

It has been. Thomas and his team made a fix a while ago. And out of the kindness of their hearts, made it open source. It’s even been compiled by others so all it needs is a drag and drop.

https://github.com/Yellow-Dog-Man/FreeImage

Does anyone on the new team have any knowledge on how the CI/CD pipeline even work so they can push such an update?

No you weren't, the Discord has been closed, it's in Read Only mode.
It's Archived

The moderators from the discord quit and locked it as to not have an unmoderated barren land where people could post anything they wanted

It’s actually a good thing, since if some bad stuff got posted there and the discord was deleted, anyone in that discord could face potential account actions against them

Why don't you change the chat link on coingecko to telegram instead of discord? the discord is locked. do something please

Wait wait wait wait. I think I know what happened here. You DONT have the build pipeline at all, do you? Is that why NeosVR hasn’t been updated? I can’t understand any other reason why this critical vulnerability hasn’t been fixed and why the team hasn’t advised against using the vulnerable program until it has been patched. Please prove me wrong, @malooniac

I don't think it is when required to have that as it's a drop in replacement of the file

Even then, without a build pipeline, how would you do that? What servers do you connect to? How do you push it to steam?

The affected build is also hosted on the neos website

That’s what I meant by servers

The "peek" video isn't made in Unreal Engine

We know that Solarix does not have source access to the frooxengine/neos codebase. I think it's reasonable to assume that they don't have access to any CI/CD pipeline either, if that previously existed.

I vaguely remember hearing that it didn’t use any kind of cloud build process. Froox would just push it from his computer. lol no wonder they haven’t fixed it

I wouldn't be surprised TBH. As much as I love neos it does have a bit of the old timy jank to it XD

Can you answer this @malooniac ?

I hope their build process is more robust now

https://twitter.com/neos_dev/status/1717333067671499231

Is this true?

XD Well. I certainty hope that is not the new dev, but it would explain why we haven't heard much from them here :P

thats a yikes, from the replies coming from that account as a "business account" for neosVR now. id reckon its a bloody 14yo kid running it with those backasswards comments

"Has 93,000" I wonder if 93,000 can program? I figure we give each dollar a keyboard?

I love how they are like "Look, prefab kitbashing is hard."

i know 😆its literally just a drag and drop and moving into place/slot its very easy

Wouldn't even care, but they are being such an ass about it XD

Honestly thought it was a shitpost account. Honestly still cant tell if its a shitpost account

Is it real?

This is of course a fake account and it’s been reported.

Apparently we have made it that far to have impostors. Nice try 😁

Why don't you change the chat link on coingecko to telegram instead of discord? the discord is locked. do something please

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We get ads again? Must be from trailer steak

Weird, I attended a convention for crypto and AI two years ago. How is this the first?

It's a file swap, is there really no way to download the currently released build and replace the dll before reuploading it to steam?

This time is about large language models

Definitely not the first

So Froox' team claim Karel does still have access to do this as he has access to the publisher's account (a level above Froox' account as far as Neos on Steam goes). Karel claims he can't do this as he doesn't have access to Frooxs' account, which given the previous comment seems like it shouldn't be necessary. I've personally never published anything on Steam so I can't confirm either way (or that he even has access to the publishing account in the first place).

Even if he didn't there are methods for account recovery. The issue is they're saying they require the source to do it. My estimate is they maybe legally can't modify or update it but idk I have no solid basis for that.

My old theory was that it was a legal issue, but now I think they just don’t know how. The build process was done locally and is part of the Unity project, which it seems Karel doesn’t get to have

Yeah, saying they need froox to do it has always felt like a massive reach.

Especially given they have access to the flles needed wth a web browser and the steam client

I've published previously on Steam, even if Karel didn't have the publisher account, he could get his account access by just opening a support ticket using an account that has its e-mail set on the company's domain to get access.

Screenshot from my steamworks page, just to show I'm not BSing about having stuff on Steam. https://ash.tips/20231027103741sYkKz.png

Creating a new build doesn't require source code. You could literally copy the entire directory for your software, replace the file, then a couple of CLI commands would be sufficient to upload that as a new build to Steam.

In their defense though; I wouldn't feel very comfortable taking contributions from someone I've had a nasty relationship with recently without being able to audit the changes myself or paying someone else to do it -- And in Karel's defense, he's not a programmer.

Froox published the fix on GitHub right? Code should be simple to audit, or download the new dll. There are other updated sources for it, and swap it.

It's not simple to audit for someone who doesn't understand how to read/write code.

Also, if you've ever tried to audit an entire codebase before, you wouldn't say that.

Why does it even need audited. He can just grab the official dll from https://freeimage.sourceforge.io/download.html no?

Huh, pretty sure I explained why above.

Frooxs fix sure. But that dll is from the official source right?

IDK if that even works and would be confused why Froox would need to fork and build his own if it did.

I mean beyond that the fix he did publish is the same as resonites fork. If it's malicious all the users of reso would be effected too

So, I don't think Froox would do this, but it's not really outside of the realm of possibility to make malicious code execute but only execute when loaded by one piece of program. On Windows for example you could call GetWindowTextA in the dll to see what the window title of the program which was loading you and then execute a different branch of code based on if it matched an unwanted application.

Take a moment to consider how much time, effort, and love that was put into Resonite. Do you really think he would be stupid enough to build a bomb into a program whose source is laid bare to the entire internet? Risking jail, getting his GitHub account taken down, etc?

Yea I suppose but the danger of a hypothetical threat < the danger of a real threat that is active and unpatched

I think it would be understandable for someone like Karel to not feel safe about using it without getting it checked out first.

Especially because there is a lot of passion involved here.

Patch has been out for over a month. That's a weak excuse Imho

Also wait

You can't both argue he would be wary about a fix and also have Andrea stating they with the team worked with them

Andrea has throw shade at the team for not fixing it, even though they have

I don't even know what Andrea does

PR/support it seems

She speaks for the Neos Foundation in this channel

Lmfao what gets me is they're crying for it to be open source but the fix is open source and they haven't patched it

I don't even see the point of it being open source if they're rewriting it in UE anyway

Honestly it's what they've been completing about tho. They keep saying the UE client will be open source but I don't think they can with the way it's set up.

Just to be clear mind you; I am not saying Froox did anything malicious at all and don't believe he did.

It's okay we need somebody to play devil's advocate when the devil doesn't ever get back on

I was just thinking from the angle, if I were in a similar situation and my partner left on bad terms, I wouldn't be trusting of code without having it checked out

Yea but would you sit on an unpatched vulnerability for over a month without releasing your own fix even when your ex partners fix is open

Well, it's an interesting situation in Europe because of the GDPR. Failure to patch vulnerabilities can lead to punishment.

Mind you they've never complained about the security of it they only every complain about not having credentials for steam or not having source

And this exploit does grant an attacker access to what one could consider personal data.

IDK it was my understanding froox had built a wrapper for the dll and it was hot swappable. knowing it's a full fork changes it a bit. But honestly it's sad that they haven't tried to fix it.

To make it a bit more awkward, no regulator has explicitly stated the timeframe by which vulnerabilities should be patched by. However, I think they look at it at a case by case basis and in this case, I wonder if an investigation would reveal any attempt was made to fix it.

Based on what they've said I don't think that they're attempting to make a fix I think they focused all of their efforts on releasing the new client in January which means that they would be allowing it to go unpatched for upwards of 3 months

Well, I'd be curious if Solarix is complying with the new online safety act that entered royal ascent yesterday.

As it's a UK company, it would need to comply.

This covers a small portion of the bill, but I think is very relevant to Neos:

https://webdevlaw.uk/2022/07/11/your-compliance-obligations-under-the-uks-online-safety-bill/

That's dense o.o I need more caffeine

Prime has stated that UE projects can be open sourced

I honestly don't remember the issue they kept pointing out. And I can't find it /shrug

I swear it had something to do with the inspector but idk I smoke a lot