I simply believe he being here in some official capacity is not constructive, where he holds some privledged position and then gets to pop in with approval or diaapproval of our opinions. No thanks. Reactant was right to ban him. And the ban afaik was temporary.

My point on the ban being wrongful is that geenz did nothing that would have warranted modeative actions

He did not insult anyone, nor did he attack anyone, he simply stated his own thoughts on the matter and asked some completely normal questions.

I still see it as an overstep to ban him because irregardless of who he is the same rights should apply to anyone in here

We should all be able to civilly talk to each other without needless hostility or prejudice. No matter what opinions we hold.

because I see these opinions as something we've moved past. Its tiresome to rehash the arguments over again about why NCR as a third party is a literal death sentence to it.

Suggesting it is like gaslighting. Its like whenthr discord allowed people to create threads on "Neos without NCR" as a hostile statement to the token holders. Its like trying to get us to drink poison.

and well, I sinply dont want any of the hostile devs here, period

they arent here in good faith. Lets not pretend like Geenz is someone wanting to meet us halfway.

There's no such thing as past opinion, literally everything on the future of NCR/NEOS is speculation and opinon, you have your reasons others have theirs.

Assuming he was here in bad faith is not a good way to start out, just because you disagree with him, he was not being hostile nor attacking anyone

and its my opinion that its gaslighting. To keep pushing something forward suggestions for someone to willingly accept something that is their own financial demise.

You don't need to agree just because someone disagrees, it's completely valid to continue to hold to your opinion

we know him from discord and twitter. And its not us who made the discord a hostile place for NCR investors or people who believe in crypto.

And what, they ran all of us out of the discord and now want to follow us here looking for petty arguments. No thanks man.

Assuming you were not banned for something you are more than welcome in the discord as long as you remain civil

and lets be clear, and I believe you both know this too... Making NCR fuck off to be third party is only being suggested because it requires NO work or cost to the devs. It costs then nothing and they want to work it fancy to say "it could work out bro, just give it a chance" when anyone with a mind clearly knows that a currency off to the side with no utility asking to be used or requiring a third party plugin that could be a security risk and has NO official support is a literal death sentence to it. And its not me saying that, look how the market reacted at the mere suggestion of it? an 80% dump?

only reason to suggest it "could work" is if you dont care about ncr and want to capitulate to Froox in hopes he can start developing the game

luckily we dont need to be held hostage to such a negligent and malicious suggestion because Karel has already turned it dowb

sure, and if I have an opinion that goes against the flow there I can get 8 people shouting down at me and sneering passive aggressively at me and even get mods and devs talking down to me

oh but I'm "welcome there"

yeah welcome to provide furry children with entertainment for their bored lives

The second option you offered above is that Karel and Froox make up and continue to work together..... which most of the team at least the dev team for certain have stated they do not want anything to do with Karel.

As such all of my speculations take this into account.

Which the three main options currently spoken on are
Third party
Soft fork
Hard fork

Which you know which i align with already

There's a fourth option and that is Karel takes control of his company and the product.

Ah yeah forgot about that one but iirc ive mentioned it in the past as a hypothetical, i dont think its likely though

Here's to hoping, and I think that is the direction he is going. Apparently Froox (and some here) cant see an option that doesnt involve maliciously fucking over their own investors.

Yeah no I have full hopes for a hard fork, Karel shuld be easily able to hire top devs to remake neos into a glorious state

like, why can't they come to agreements to keep NCR first party, let Karel or even thenselves, hire some people to work on it, and work out agreements to distribute some of the NCR as an incentive for doing so?

the reason is that the devs simply do not like NCR and despite pretending to say otherwise, want it gone

Because they do not wish to work with Karel due to his conduct as has been stated multiple times

well theyre being forced to negociate with him now. And if the discomfort of briefly working with someone is far greater for them than the financial havoc theyd like us all to suffer, then I say fuck em.

With a hard fork they wouldnt have to work together and NCR would be first party in Karels metaverse

isnt this optimal for you?

Karel has stated he'd be willing to work things out and compromise. The clause of no compromise comes from Froox's side. Thats whats unhealthy for development.

sure, I've always supported that, but I also support Karel taking full control as well

I dont think not compromising on that you dont want to work with someone again after the conduct they have performed is wrong

so whats Karel's terrible conduct?

I mean that would also essentially cause a split because as has been said the dev team would not work for karel

right

Well you could go through the Teams announcements on that and what team members have said about working with him for their reasons

I have. Ive read all the annoubcements and I fail to see anything so terrible as to say "this guy is so awful to work with, we here at the team would rather fuck you all over than try to work things out"

and Ive seen how the devs act toward me and Ive seen how they act on twitter in comparison to Karel and Ive drawn my own conclusions.

until they come out and say whay the real reasons are.

maybe you should just say what the worst part of the announcements is?

One of my own reasons for why i personally wouldnt want to work for Karel would be as an example his stance on employee privacy

very civil talk. nice :)

hard to have that opinion when the employee is doggedly and slyly insulting you after every move you make.

What does this have to do with privacy?

I assume youre talking about Geenz here

mentioning Froox's family that one time is wrong I agree, if thats what youre alluding to

Not jus, Karel as made general statements on employee privacy on top of namedropping Geenz's current employer, the name drop is a privacy violation but thats not what i mean

Karel has beyond just this one tweet stated that employees should not be anonymous public facingly and should be forced to use their full legal names in public facing communication with the community, which i heavily disagree with

Legal names for internal purposes is fine, but for public facing communication people should have a right to privacy

afaik Karel offered to pay any of them if they would ask for an invoice. They said they didnt need thr money, and refused it as it would make it harder for them in their plot to oit Karel.

BEFORE the fact Neos didnt even have enough funds to really start paying honest salaries.

is it ur opinion? or is this legal thing?

NCR wasnt that high for that long and the problems started at the same time

the problen was Karel started acting like a CEO and certain people didnt like that

Base line an employee has a right to privacy yes, for legal reasons such as contracts of course internally there needs to be a legal name on record but beyond that unless the contract permits the employers usage of the employees name and likeness on things such as their website or consent is given otherwise it would be a violation of the employees privacy

never saw privacy means anonymous in business tho

so saying "if youre going to work for me, its going to be under your real name" is a violation? please.

Public facingly anonymous, this means that people who work for the company are not visible with their legal names unless they choose to be

internally names and such are known

well really?

is this like protection from crime?

I literally just explained that internally for legal purposes a legal name has to be on record

Its the same for other platforms aswell. A good example is vrchat, a friend is applying there and everyone except the HR person had nicknames instead of their real names.

real name is privacy?

yes

can be

Yes its personal information

well whether that policy is good or not is one thing... but its not a violation to accept or refuse it

Twitch streamer for example having the danger of being swatted if private information leaks

As someone who works heavily with userdata i had to take a cetification for this thing to identify personal information and categorize it also

thats little bit wierd, it could be company's policy IMO.

Or you know. Random people shooting your house

but not legal

Yes but it would have to be in the contract

otherwise you can not publish an employees personal info without express consent

yeah it should be in contract to use anonymous name

otherwise its okey usually

other way around unless expressly allowed you can not dox your employees

So the thing is, I dont think this is a point of contension or something Karel wouldnt compromise on.

And thats in US.

He's stated going forward he will only employ people that use their legal names in public communications

Karel haters should just stop here.
haters dont help anything

Its same for Froox haters

it feels like nitpicking but I dont really see the big smoking gun that says "karel is a horrible person" that justifies throwing us all under the bus.

It's nothing to do with being a horrible person or not

I just care about privacy

I had to take certifications to identify personal data and such in order to report GDPR violations also since i work heavily with tons of national and internaitonal sensitive userdata

yeah. maybe he'll change his mind but Im sure after this whole situation what hes really saying is he wants people who are professsional or something.

there isnt just company policy clarified, so assuming whos right is pointless.

This isnt about right or wrong, im stating why i would personally not want to work for someone with karels employment demands

if using real name is illegal, sue solirax then

This isn't necessarily the case. You can register a 'fictitious business name' or a 'doing business as' alias. There is no legal requirement for you to use your given name.

I think it was just an upset response in the moment but who knows..

Giving up personal privacy to work for someone imo is a step too much to ask

True

As I said this is not about any wrongdoing right now, just about something i personally dislike

I've never had a job where I didnt have to give my real name. And I've never had a job where I was allowed to have a psudoanonymous name of my choosing

yeah this is about company policy, and ur opinipn doesnt matter.

As far as i know karel has not publically released anyones names

bout the best Ive ever had is not being required to wear a nametag xD

When I'm talking about the fact i would not work for an employer with such policies its kinda the only thing that matters

yes its just ur opinion ok

i personally want to fire or let geenz out of this project

just my opinion

personal opinion is just fine

Whenever I ask "ok whats the big terrible thing Karel has done" it always gets deflected into topics like this

becuase we're talking about financial loss for thousands of people because "this person is hard to work with"

you told me refused to pay, and I said he offered to pay, and you said that was too late

so I assume its more than that.

I mean you have stated yourself you have read the announcements and didnt see the big deal so i think its more just a case of you disagreeing with the severity. Which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion on that.

It's why i brought forth additional factors such as his recently stated opinions on privacy policies since thats the only real thing to add beyond the announcements

I think it might be internal drama, like firing Nex

Also it's not one big thing, its many small things that culminated over time as has been explained in talks

which weeere?

I'm on mobile and this chat is moving fast.

Im on my lunch break.

Honestly i feel that when i tab back into neos and a few seconds later this chat says "40 new messages"

yeah and when im on this tiny screen it feels like my head is spinning woth so many idreas going by

but ive always been a slow chatter

i hope one day, we can all be friendly to each other.
but until ncr recovers, there will be emotions flying around here

Operating unilaterally against your equal partner's wishes is not a good move for the partnership's longevity. And unfortunately, the health of that partnership is pretty much the only remaining lifeline for the NCR economy. We cannot overlook that reality, if Froox ultimately decides to end the partnership then that's it. (I say 'if Froox', because it is clear that it is not in Karel's interest to end the partnership, not to imply a lack of agency)

the implication is that its not a real company and we're hostage to one person's whim. And somehow along the line it's accepted that Froox makes decisions for the whole company, yet holds no responsibility to honor promises made during fundraising to token holders

how can Froox just end it? wanna know detail

Management deadlock meets the requirements for judicial dissolution.

go to court and divide company into 2 with no share related?

how does the court define what asset belongs to whom?

go to court yes, that other stuff we dont know

or is it go to court, but the company still exists but 1 partner has to resign?

I think things could depend on whether it could be shown that Froox's actions hurt the company financially

Correct. Given that Karel's arguments rely on the theory of implied license when it comes to the work done on the product, and those licenses are implicit and non-transferable, this outcome would mean the end of this line of development.

court will decide in terms of
"was there any violations" i think

well then that would be fight between Solirax vs Froox

In either case, it would end in dissolution. That's one of the reasons you incorporate.

There would be no Solirax in this senario.

Karel's argument is always about "solirax" owns the code

so if Froox wins his IP right, then Solirax will havd nothing and Froox can go on

or if Solirax wins, very hard to split

That would require specific contracts with all contributors. The strongest argument Karel has for having access to the Neos codebase for a product is implicit license. Which is a strong case IMO, but it comes with the limits I've outlined.

that will go to court

our assumptions is just opinion

furries think the team will get everything with no doubt
but.. irw not really the case

You cannot sue your equal partner and not expect dissolution.

Irreconcilable differences here mean the end of the legal entity.

also true but thats why theres negotiation

im saying that its not law-forced divorce. its nego and compromise between 2 individuala that is needed

so thats why one party cant just end it.

I think conduct may be important to argue

and its sad because obviously both froox and karel have been working hard

If Solirax owns no code, then Froox can sell his shares, and make new one for himself and go on.

Either of them could in fact end it. That is what judicial dissolution means between equal partners. There is no tie break. It's just deeply against our interests for that to occur. I would also argue it's deeply against our interests to entertain Solirax moving forward without its CTO and lead developer. We are treading water as is. Gutting the company of its talent and existing product just means a slow death for NCR and the company.

court gets to decide who owns everything? seems like a long fight.... should take at least 2 years

Likely a long one, yes. And not likely a favorable one for the welfare of the platform. It is why I am in favor of the explicit integration of NCR with the existing product, even if it is managed as a separate entity. Harm reduction is the best policy moving forward IMO.

In order for NCR to fulfill its utility as a marketplace token, the velocity of money will need to be high - meaning we will need to see an incredible amount of platform growth occur and demand for virtual goods increase along with that. The current userbase and team have made it pretty clear that they are opposed to growth which will absolutely have negative ramifications for NCR as a 3rd party component. The harsh reality is that in order for NCR to grow again, the team developing the Metaverse platform needs to be equally as invested into growing the economy. Having NCR as an afterthought for a world that has 200 user concurrency will be more of a slow death in the end and solves nothing for the investors who have lost almost half a billion dollars in value.

Preach, bro. And it's not just gaslighting. The disingenuous third party option is what allows them to present themselves as having the ostensible moral high ground as if they're offering a reasonable compromise that Karel and the crypto community are simply rejecting without any sound basis/proceeding to a lawsuit in bad faith. The truth is we have no other option left.

And shark, I've had conversations with Geenz about why that third party option doesn't work for NCR. He had no real rebuttal, other than saying the alternatives weren't going to work for the dev team.

If your alternatives were to do with Karel and the team working together again then yeah thats not really an option. It's been made clear that the dev team would rather start over than work with Karel

No option here is perfect, it's just the options we have due to the circumstances and we all have different ideas on which is the least damaging

It is a bit tiring that for some reason you and orc keep saying that the third party is some disingenuous malicious ruse to try and appear morally higher.

It's not, it's just a simple matter of a disagreement of opinion, and continuing to try and strawman people as being some kind of malicious actors for disagreeing with you is not productive.

None

why is it disagreeing with dev is not productive?
third party ncr sucks. isnt this just opinion?

Disagreeing is fine as I've said many times.

What is not productive is to claim people are purposefully trying to be malicious and disingenuous just because you disagree.

Claiming your "opponent"(debate wise) does not actually believe their stance but is actually just disingenuously trying to morally grandstand is not productive in discussion, it's nothing more than an attack on the person.

u r very enthusiastic in correcting these stuff and I appreciate for it. cus thats actually what mods should have done in discord also.

Please be enthusiastic in correcting that in discord too.

froox and co were opposed to new hires. they want it to be cozy work-at-your-own-pace style hobby project for them and friends

I'm interested in sustainable growth, personally. I don't think that we'd benefit from another meme spike. I'd also like to see a more long-term prospectus, especially regarding how we plan to combat the deflationary tendency of NCR as we approach wider deployment. ATM we are entirely reliant on theoretical improvements on the Ethereum blockchain that we can do nothing to influence in order to make it viable to perform nrc->fiat fiat->ncr transactions on the scale that would be useful for a player-to-player marketplace, which is not a great spot to be in IMO.

One thing i would like to encourage anyone to do is, report if you think someone is violating the rules, moderators can't monitor chats at all times and "if you see something, say something" is a very good policy for speedy moderation.

Honestly wish Karel would get a new mod in here.

Well but that was due to the lack of sufficient payment of current contributors/volunteers. I can understand the confusion when someone suddenly gets hired on properly while you still go largely without a fair wage

That said I personally do not believe that hiring on a bunch of new devs and designers right now would have caused an increase in quality of the product, it's a pretty common thing to suggest just throwing more people at a problem but It's usually not optimal

neither is throwing more money at a project

Any project manager approaching this sector needs to read Fred Brooks' The Mythical Man Month.

Which I will continue reminding people exists for probably the rest of time :P Surprisingly few people read our seminal literature.

Mmm Generally I'd agree there but it depends, money can be helpful if it comes to vital equipment required for the project or things such as production lines. But yes in this specific case yeah.

No, it was different from that. I went through and explained my perspective as to why a third-party API (without more) was essentially a death sentence for NCR, and how much of the value proposition for NCR comes from exclusivity/incentive factors that a third party simply can't provide or implement on its own without first party support.

All I've heard in response is how a third-party API option could be *technically* possible and that in some magical fairyland scenario, NCR *might* somehow become successful as a purely third-party integration. But no one here is contesting the technical feasibility of the third-party option, nor is anyone denying that there is some non-zero probability that it could possibly work out under ideal conditions.

So when that's all we hear from the discord side - with no argument as to how NCR would realistically retain actual value - we see it for what it is - it's nothing but fugazi for the coin and its holders. And to keep pushing it over and over again - at a certain point, it comes across as bad faith and/or simply pushing a conflicting agenda.

And then people like Geenz were in here and their response to what you were saying was to try to flip it into some psuedo argument against crypto as in "Well if NCR can't exist as an abandoned orphen token then I guess crypto isn't worth much hmm?" and at that point it's obvious they're just here for petty arguments and to get their kicks in while we're down(thanks to them)

For the third party integration, the way it could achieve competitiveness is through an exclusivity deal that would bar neos from allowing other cryptocurrencies from interfacing with the API.

It could fail yes, as could all options Personally i think it would be more likely to succeed than a hard fork but yeah, if you disagree with that that's totally valid

I don't disagree that the prospects of NCR as an externally managed asset are not nearly as good, but I don't see a way forward that is better than 3rd party integration without disentangling Karel from the future of the token. Which I think we'd all agree is unrealistic. NCR wasn't ever the issue as much as there has been culture clash, it's an unfortunate casualty in mostly unrelated happenings.

To be honest, personally, I think that if NCR and other cryptocurrencies were integrated and NCR didn't have some inherent competitiveness that makes it worth using from the manager's side then it dying is just how the free market goes.

I personally don't like neither exclusivity deals nor restricitng peoples payment methods which is why I personally dont like those options to try and give it additional competitiveness but I can agree that it would make it more viable

Part of the whole point of NCR was for it to be used in-game freely between the users. Like if someone was nice to me, I could tip them a few NCR, or if I wanted to microgamble or pay in for a special event, I could. That just simply falls apart if NCR is not native to Neos and -actually supported-.

NCR was never designed to be a competitive cryptocurrency on its own. Its entire value prop is that it was supposedly supported by the Neos team and would therefore have essentially monopoly powers for the Neos economy itself. This argument is based entirely on a false premise.

This would still be possible people would just have more options to tip and in other currency cases with different fees attached.

For tipping purposes, if NCR remains feeless NCR would still have an advantage in that use case.

Even currently people can opt out of NCR receival making it impossible for you to tip them NCR, this would just give those people a non NCR way to be tipped also

The initial point of NCR was to raise funds for NEOS's development and to then later be used as an in Engine marketplace token, yes.

I personally believe that NCR has a chance to compete third party due to how early it would be integrated Versus other currencies

Yeah we know what would be "possible" that's not an argument for its success or more importantly, what was originally promised by the company.

I guess it's just a matter of us thnking of different hurdles in implementation and management of the direction NCR would go in.
Which is fine.

Personally I have nothing against a hard fork happening, I just personally dont think it optimal.

lol

third party ncr summary
-best for furries
-worst for Karel
-bad for ncr

If by furries you mean the people who are anti crypto, which is more than "furries" especially since theres furries who are fr the crypto.

Third party ncr
-Sub optimal for anti crypto

Hard Fork
-Optimal for anti crypto

Because a Hard fork would cause a non crypto and crypto version of neos fully

I suppose yeah we disagree, but then again I believe NCR should have even more functionality built into it, beyond just being for a marketplace. I think it being relegated to just that purpose was a compromise to anti-crypto sentiments when I believe Karel wanted to expand its role in the future.

Non-integration with mainline pretty much puts NCR dead in the water >.>

hard fork summary
- good for furries(meaning dev team+furry users)
- good for Karel
- possibly good or neutral for ncr

Yeah i think the same

Expand its role how exactly? Could you elaborate a little on that, because I'm unsure what you mean there

crypto is evoloving fast,
ncr was planned years earlier so couldnt consider stuffs like,
-governance token
-fee/revenue accumulated to treasury
-possibly DAOs

I believe services in-game should go through NCR (games, tipping, events, possibly gambling), I think a mainland should be made at some point and space purchasable or rentable with NCR, and I think NCR holders should have certain discounts on storeage just for holding it maybe. Like I dont know as its not my job to work on Neos, but those are ideas off the top of my head.

or atleast NCR holders should get certain privledges, maybe even voting rights

-tipping/microtransaction capability
-revenue sharing to NCR stakers, e.g., share of fees generated by fiat transactions

but these stuffs are not in whitepaper, so things to discuss in hard fork version

not now

discussing these things would get you hanged by furries. They want NCR to have less use, not more.

im already hanged :(

Services is a planned thing yeah, thats part of the marketplace proposal.
Gambling is a massive massive "may god have mercy on your soul" because of the jurisidction issues

As for "Games" if you mean paying for access to games or such then yeah im sure that is a possibility also and events too.

I assume by events you kinda mean like how we charge money for tickets to be part of the metamovie

theyre just examples. I just believe NCR should have more useages

right exactly. And rewards for contests etc like mmc

Yeah a framework to pay for Goods and Services of any kind would be neat.

Like not just as an NCR thing but in general such a framework is a very much nice thing to have in engine

Also the continued use of "furries" as the other side is kinda funny at least to me since i am part of that community

I'm not about to hang anyone. I just want to be left with something after a year of accepting NCR payments for work, TBH. :P I just don't think that realisticly I'm going to see these tokens worth much without the existing ecosystem behind them. Governance was never on the table, so it's not something I ever gave much thought to (but I definitely wouldn't want it to be something you can just buy into. Even the Patreon 'board member' perks always skeved me out.). I always liked CDFT in principle, and I'd be interested to see plans for supporting vital but otherwise hard to fund work past the useful life of CDFT. I was always open to figuring out a middle path, personally.

the word "furry" became quite strange here but.. everyone can understand what it means tho

furry means FUD, anti-karel, anti-crypto etc. it depends

i didnt even know the word furry before this drama actually kk

See the thing is redefining an entire community of diverse people like that isnt really a positive thing and only serves to further alienate and other people

good/correct suggestion, but its hard to change people's mind u know

cus its actually true that most of the anti-karels are furries

I know, this kinda stuff is a long tedious but important path.
Language like this is not just detrimental for those you talk about but it's detrimental for yourself as it makes people who would otherwise be supportive of you no longer supportive of you.

It also just generally looks bad when you got a train of people going "furry bad" because while maybe you have internally defined it to not actually mean furries, externally it just looks like rabid hatred towards a different community.

same for "cryptobros"

I agree yeah

but nobody questions the word "cryptobros".

there were many neutral/supporters here and there

but this kind of words divide the community more and more

not getting any better

u'll be surprised if u were one of cryptobro getting hostile and attacks if u just say a magic word "ncr" to discord community

Exactly which is why im trying to kinda calm things down a bit because only if we can talk civily and can we really have productive discussions, which dont need to lead to agreement but a civil exchange of ideas itself is good

I mean I've gotten this kinda response in here from some people so I'm not surprised, but yeah I know what you mean.

On the discord i can only really hope for people to go the route of moderation since we have moderators there, if people are dogpiling or attacking you, please do speak to a moderator in the discord.
There's been attempts to calm things in the discord by staff members and the only way to make those attempts more effective is if people speak up

well "moderator" is attacking ncr value so... dont wanna even try

actually I have very similar view with you , that

there are no "neutrals"

forced to pick a side

dividing the community more and more

I know that there are more "neutral" users in neos community, but they just ran away kk

See the thing is one of the main things of moderation is that when performing moderation actions you should be impartial, irregardless of the moderator's opinion on NCR they should be more than fit to de-escalate such situations.

And the only way really for thinngs to get better is if you do speak up

This is also why i keep extending invitations to join us inside neos.

u should speak up first man..

have u tried this "mod" thing in discord?

like u r doing here?

Yeah

nice

so I checked briefly what u talk about in discord now,

u seem to talk a lot in Karel NCR posts and discussion thread

where there are bunch of "Furries" we refer

but cant find

u can say "fuck" to Karel who uses his real name, but protects the volunteers to use fake name

i see u very selective

go to discord and try some mods there and I'll believe u

What do you mean by that?

Because i have talked in here pretty recently about my views on employee privacy

at least i assume you mean this part

yes

i dont see that "constructive" talk

I mean I essentially said the same thing in here, I heavily disagree with forcing employees to public facingly use their legal names. For multiple reasons main one being just general right to privacy

Well thats because no one disagreed with this being a bad thing, exit initially disagreed because they misunderstood what it was saying but after being explained that its not about internal record keeping but public facing communication they agreed. Cant really have much of a talk if everyone agrees, which is why in here was a lot more of a lengthy discussion on it

Or are you taking issue with the wording?

Or if you were specifically looking for instances of me trying to moderate interactions in the discord then you wont find those, we have moderators in there who volunteer to do so, its not my place to moderate the discord.

The only reason im trying to kinda pseudo do that here is because, well, theres no moderators, I cant expect someone else to try and keep the peace here

Without moderation its moe heavily on us all as people to try and keep conversations constructive as theres no checks against such a thing happening

so u r not trying to moderate in discord, cus there is moderators...

seems right, but looks like selective excuse to me tho

Yes I am not a moderator in the discord, my main place in NEOS in general is as a mentor, I teach people how to use the platform and also teach people who teach people how to use the platform.

I have faith in our moderation team to enforce moderative actions with disregard for their own possible biases. And if you think a moderator is in fact targetting you unfairly its even more important to report such as if this is the case such a thing is incredibly damaging to keep unchecked

But i guess as a note i just mean in like an official volunteer capability, i do a lot more than just teach people in NEOS XD

thanks for great work u doing :)

I think NCR isn't a problem when Europe kills DeFi, which they are at doing again

None

all this drama with NCR just reminds me of what happened to eternal token from cryptomines

Only thing separating NCR from any other crypto is the native support of it inside NeosVR, 3rd party plugin is a joke really

As soon as Geenz moves away from that idea and starts to really negotiate, this situation will resolve rather quickly. But the starting point should be that ncr will keep its status

What worries me most is that Frooxius isn't willing to talk about this issue at all

Publicly at discord, he's the supposed leader in this after all

That's a rather unimaginative approach, I was expecting more from him

Hopefully he's using the time to explore other options as well and not just waiting for something to happen and not budging

Community will follow Frooxius, at least most of the active community in US and Europe that is in Neos currently

The current community is miniscule and the product is still in beta, no offense. It's not a big deal if every current user would leave considering big picture and long term. Not having frooxius coding will hurt more

What third party agreement could be made?

Only one I can think of is to let NCR look like it has native support and hugely favored by Neos team

I think there are many creators who would just rejoin the furry-less Neos and start creating again, if they consider crypto the lesser evil

With marketing and fully embracing crypto it'll be a non issue, of course would take some time but Metaverse is a trend now

Marketing is more of causing problems than it is a solution at the state where we are right now

Guys please, long term 😅 Metaverses won't be a big thing for years to come

I don't see how that'd evade taxes, as crypto on the ledger is crypto as well as it is on the blockchain

I don't see a completely third-party arrangement working, because Karel needs to be able to push through developments/updates into the Neos platform required for NCR to actually succeed. Otherwise, he is entirely beholden to Froox and the dev team.

I'd rather see some kind of compromise that results in a clearly delineated separation and division of responsibilities, e.g., creation of two separate subsidiaries under the Solirax umbrella, with Froox and team continuing with development of the platform itself, and Karel and his team developing the Neos economy/marketplace/NCR. And allocation to Froox/dev team of locked/vesting NCR, so that their incentives aren't entirely disassociated.

What I'm saying is that if the old people left, new ones would come as they see the potential and opportynity

Simple as that, especially with ncr

if that wasn't the case, keeping your crypto in a CEX would mean you wouldn't have tax issues there

Won't argue further

It shouldn't matter what I am thinking

It matters how the tax agency and judges think about it

This is why accessibility is really important. It's hard to effectively crowdsource a world without users building it, and if the barrier to entry is too high it's going to hinder that. Second Life for all of its flaws allowed users to easily jump in and start building without an enormous learning curve. In the early days when it was trying to gain traction this was really crucial. The marketplace organically started growing along with it and I think we would see a similar situation with Neos/NCR if it were a lot more accessible to users. This is why I have concerns about 3rd party NCR. I don't see the current team acting in the best interest of the market, and Karel will be completely beholden to them as the platform builders - as prozac mentioned.

I think Second Life, amazing as it is, differs in terms of their target market. Neos is always going to require a little bit steeper learning curve because of it's robust functionality. It's not aimed purely at casual users, as you are well aware of, but more of at people who love to have as much customisation control as possible over their creations. That said - is Neos in it's current form and with current UI. With a bit of good UX/UI work we can definitelly help to ease that transition.

Couple that with NCR and Neos Marketplace and you have absolutely outstanding opportunities. And we are not talking about some artificial scarcity of selling virtual land or similar gimmicks. (Not to insult anyone here, if you feel like splashing some cash on virtual estate, by all means do😁)
The true strenght of Neos is in its versatility and it will soon show. I am truly amazed with its possibilities. Every day. Every time when I learn something new, I am stunned-so much can be done. For *free* - okay? Let's all take a moment to ingest that. 😁
It was built by passion and it shows.
At very least we deserve to be known. To be out there and break out through the sea of wannabe "metaverses". As that word is so utterly overused

demonstrated here https://twitter.com/ParisHilton/status/1510796033592156171?s=20&t=girFjkuZq5vOisucZQ_1BA

😁 I mean really, what is that about 😁

..Can never go wrong with "mermaid-style" I guess 😅

Get off my mind Karel

😂

The new website looks amazing btw. Great job to whoever headed up the re-design.

https://neosvr.com/

I like how the design language carries over from the whitepaper.

Now website looks great. But the ICO section really needs more of a disclosure as to the ongoing issues with the team. Definitely material information when soliciting investors.

None

ur u-tube is on the site. wow

is this official website then??

I love how there's a big Telegram button at the top but no Discord. Well played.

well.. i hope the discord members dont get furious about the new website..

how is the reaction there?

Notice on new site engine name change to remove CTO engine?

New engine ?

Me after selling NCR

9$ was a good price. 😆

None

None

Website look good but where game footage???

Game footage should be at top

why's the final minting price changed??

isnt the batch same?

the amount per batch is reduced, as I remeber

anyways... i can see how the furries will react on this website from some comments here

new feed for fight? :(

59 batches left so, which means minting price shoul go up x2

yeah this too

fight begins lol

its 200k????

neos is thriving!

when's the situation resolved?
I hope reducing patreons pushes Karel&Froox to make announcement quicker

whoa new website

I see

dont get into petty arguments

stop the unintelligent insults is all

well you know where you stand

and you other guys shouldnt engage in petty arguments either

try to know the context that alot of the people in here both lost money and also arent skilled english speakers

and are from way different cultures

and frankly, never met a group of people who pretend to be cartoon animals

with respect, as I pretend to be all sorts of shit and grew up txt based roleplaying through my teens

I like the website artwork but the site needs work

I guess its comforting to see Karel is not deemphasizing the token, but it would be nice to see more game there.

Id like to say I think his hands abit forced, needing to try to emphasize the token

its a website though, if ppl hesr about Neos itll be through socials and youtube tho

lol

this is only allowed in discord, not here. lets be civil

when it comed to getting people to buy a token, it helps to have less friction in the way I guess

I know thats what gets people pissed

I think it could be abit more elegant

I guess I would argue that ppl would most likely download Neos through steam or hear about it on youtube, but people interested in the crypto side of things would come in through the website

atleast thats how Id see it

I dunno though, valid feedback on the website

so cant disagree with you all

or maybe, the website is beginning of split between Karel&Froox version

neos.com for Froox
neosvr.com for Karel lol

its yet to be discussed

yeah, he didnt announced.
so its maybe still working before officially published

maybe waiting for Froox's comments beflre announcing

lets just wait and be calm

yeah Im surr froox is typing up his "we all disagree" post now

LOL

yeah lol

im quite sure thats coming

i think i can buy the dip again soon

easy pattern for ncr

1. froox disagree post
2. buy the dip
4. karel buyback
5. sell

might buy some. at the very least the new website seems to communicate that Karel isn't on board with ditching NCR

seems abit silly some here are criticising the website for featuring NCR too much

Argue for making it third party, argue for removing it from the game, argue for deemphasizing it on the website

what do they really want? it to just disappear completely

obviously

I just want to say: like, some concession is needed.

That's why I've taken Karel's side in this. Watching the furries in Discord celebrate the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars from people who believed, trusted, and invested in Neos is sociopathic behavior and I can't stand by that.

yeah.. and for people crying "bigotry" please... like no one is forcing anyone to pretend theyre a cartoon fox. Its not bigotry in that sense

and most people here are used to seeing these happy cartoon dogs associated with some of the most passive aggressive or straight up combatitivr behavior

thats why Im always weary around furs as they all pretend to be adorable little creatures but in reality some of the most argument-thirsty fuckers Ive ever been around

some of my personal friends are furs

but seems majority of furs leaned hard into joining the twitter argument crew and just look for drama all day

and crypto gave them something they csn eternally rail on about

What's up fuckers

Ello what vat of acid did i walk into? I can actually scroll up 1 sec

is this new Ja?

go on!

Ja?

being furry is a fandom its not a sexuality or skincolor, so feels silly to consider it bigotry

OooOooo~ biiiiiig scratch

there was funny guy :)

then all fandoms are groups that need to be protected

thats what exactly discord is doing.
only allowed in discord, not here.
please stop

well either way its pointless

Ill just leave it at this, its pointless tp even bring up thst someone is furry

unless its funny

so anyway sorry

is it loud minority? hmm....

idk

nice rap

man, whether its twitter or discord, its -ALL- I see from thr community

Honestly Crypto is fascinating as a technology and it's interesting what it can be used for (im a fucking tech hoe) in the future so im not fully against it. I think people have issue with the manic adopters

But tbh i only obsess over old tech so i dont know much

mabye celebrating is loud minority,
but anti-crypto is majority

Maybe things are changing

either way I dont disagrer eith the website needing work and more stuff bout the game

The majority is against crypto

If click login, site logo is not right

1. major discords hate Karel
2. these guys hate Karel's project
3. Karel's project is ncr

easy

yeah. not just karels project

Man, there is a chat dedicated to Karel, but most of the talk about it is against cryptocurrency

They updated the site? It looks the same or is it a minor update

they even hate Karel saying anything.
like "happy st. patrick day" from Karel can make them furious

some talks pro- crypto?

thats what needs

To be fair it isnt too bad. But tbh im on moble so maybe its worse idk

its good, but there are many points to make furries angry.

maybe, this can start re-union between two divided communities

if they are pro-crypto

but honestly, i dont see that

yeah, it could have been not about crypto entirely.
But its not now.
there are many reasons, for example

Geenz keep hating crypto
Froox suggesting 3rd party to make ncr 0 value
furries agreeing on these stuffs

the original plans for ncr is abandoned by dev team.

I, as a holder dont care who owns the neos stuff. I just need the original plan to go on.

For this, Karel really should use money...
using money means hiring dev, new hires. but who is against this now?

proof?

Yes, Karel has miscommunicated and not paid the devs right.
this can be fixed, but who is opposing it to be fixed?

who is trying to make ncr as a third party?

who is not trying to make neos store?

who is it trying to make another currency allowed in neos?

every plan that helps ncr value is avandoned by dev team.

we are just stuck between this ridiculous fight

its like years behind for the dev team's plan

ask ur friend, when is it planned approx.

they'll tell u, at least not within 2 years

yes!!! we need

read the statement first

we need UI experts, neos needs lots of more workers

who is hindering new hire?

devs should do devs things not running a company

shame on devs

devs, are just devs

Froox is not just dev, but acts like dev

man....

the devs ruin a billion project

plz open your eyes and see what happen outside

kkk

done like the devs stay their lonely home

there is not much time for neos to play drama

things change fast

ok. its true that its not ruined now. he is afraid that neos will lose its competitiveness as time flies

so lets assume that this drama went on for a year.

for 2022~23, there will be no hires

right?

going what? no updates for months and devs act kids public and post shits

the current dev will do the current dev right?

and still feel good , lmao

I wont agree that only devs are the ones to blame tho

devs are on strike. ceo needs to listen to them and fix stuffs.
but what they want is CEO fired.

what?

why not just go away if devs dont feel happy

company can hire other people

LMAO

has CEO done wrong for "neos" or "dev"??
they say its dignity and miscommunication. which means its their personal reason.

Is it right for dev to want CEO out cus they dislike him?

is anyone stealing from him?

why did he give stake to Karel?

Did Karel threatened Froox?

they just chatted and became co founder

no one forced anyone

so, Froox dont want to work with Karel is fine. but devs just suck

and Froox just standing behind the scene, and standing on moral high ground, making his dev say shits to Karel also sucks

or letting is just the same

Froox says
"say nothing Karel, I disagree with you"

and Froox saying nothing seems just right. but actually, devs are talking a lot out there, which makes unfair ground

actually, I only hate Geenz for his words. probable prime is at least not emotional. and others barely talk

so when they want "not contracted" as a weapon, they use it.
when they dont need it as weapon, they act like official employee

ProbablePrime has managed to maintain a professional demeanor throughout all of this and I think that's respectable.

so I would say geenz to please stop. what if Karel just stays??

noone knows how Froox's mind can change

saying shit to ur own ceo isnt a "brave" move, just silly

These types of disagreements happen regularly in the world of business and startups, but they are generally kept behind closed doors to protect the viability of the company and product. By airing the dirty laundry openly, it caused people to not only lose faith in NCR but Neos itself - including both the dev and management side. It's a really sad and unfortunate lose-lose situation and it's going to require a lot of positive news to recover. It's not impossible, but it will be a long road of rebuilding trust.

If there can be a scenario where Karel can be in full control of Neos, forked or not, I think confidence will rebound very fast. What is lost will be a small and toxic community which is a good thing.

These arguments are a waste of time. It's all been rehashed at least 20x by now. The discord and crypto community are simply going to have to agree to disagree on most of the issues.

As for how things were in the discord while all this shit was going down, I'll just say this. There's a reason why the entire crypto community left discord and had to start a separate telegram. It was toxic as fuck in there.

If they are truly anti crypto and anti expansion, they can copy and paste their code and build their own parallel metaverse, even with NCR supporting their development. But they are not choosing to do so as a reasonable person who happens to disagree with you would. I can’t help but suspect that there’s something sociopathic behind their motivation and the goal is to destroy the very people they viscerally hate.

hey
why cant I say "I hate Geenz"
its my opinion

geenz has reasons, i have reasons

everything is fine

people who state "I 100% trust Froox" is the one u refering? kk

who's here "I trust 100% someone" other than the furries

so who is he refering as that?

is it who trusts Karel uneducated?

Im not having full trust on anyone, not like him at least

hypocrat, acting like kind one but attacking behind

putting life saving was before knowing this drama so....

anyway thats stupid

and of course saying shit to ur ceo is fine in normal circunstances, cus it doesnt do any harm. I say shit to apple ceo, doesnt hurt a bit.

Geenz is acting as a leader of anti-Karel. he is doing damage to Solirax. He's not helping community to calm down. This isnt normal circumstance, and its a startup.

I can say anything if its not slur

so seletive again, If I attack Froox then he will say different obviously. only reacts like this when seeing Pro-Karel opinions.

not need yet,

if Frooxius really abandons ncr, we might.

but its not

We have Karel, keep trying to keep the original plan for us.

None

Karel actually gives a damn about the holders atleast, Froox somehow thought it was okay to propose sending us up shit creek without a paddle.

and try to remember, no matter ehat Karel does, the creeps on discord will try to spin it bad. Always

so dont concern yourself with thr opinions of discord and don't try to appease them

Im not THAT creepy

Hello everyone. I would like to kindly remind people that this is a channel for polite discussion and while it is okay and generally encouraged to have opinions and different views, hateful comments towards any Neos' community or its members won't be tolerated. Specifically I ask Luis Alfonso to better consider their words please or you will be removed from the discussion. We are building a healthy community where everyone is welcome, so please respect that. Many thanks and have a great day everyone☺️

Your comments towards the furry community being "s**t" are a bit rich, don't you think? I don't think I need to screenshot it. I am sure we can just move on☺️ Thank you

Neosvr.com is no more. Was it just on for testing?