as long as i can play the game, do whatever

wont stop the mirrors from working

Unless it's the Linux build, in which case sometimes you get bloomed to death

Back in like 2018 the opinion of these things was WAY different. It was just a thing rewarding patreons. People would tip each other in it and it was fun, and eventually people started buying it to fund Neos.

speaking of, I think I want to make a SteamDeck badge, since I've been using it more and more

It doesn't gate any content, and if you play on Steam you don't see it

oke but somone spawnd a vending mashine that wantet som of the coins that was mention in the menu in neos

That'd be KFC, which was a testing currency

ahhh oke to thats not longer used?

KFC has no value, you can get it free, there's concept slot machines and stuff that use it

it's there for fun

ahh oke

Not rally? It's under the same limit as NCR, so in the steam client, it won't appear. But as Orc mentioned, it has no value, so people just use it for testing stuff and for acting as monopoly money everyone agrees to in a sense

its there for testing purposes

ahhh oke good to know

why is it left out of the steam client?

seems odd... That's like removing regular ingame gold from an MMO or something for the steam version

The sole purpose of KFC was as a testing platform for NCR. KFC would have eventually been removed if everything with NCR went successfully.

People just started using it for fun things, is all

can i ask something about the rumors with the legal battles with the ceo? what exactly is going on?

Because Valve has banned all cryptocurrencies and NFTs from Steam, I think it was back in October last year.

I actually don't know the exact reason of that decision, my understanding is that they didn't want to be associated with any kind of "gambling" games so rather than currating it, they did a blanket ban. Maybe somebody over here has a better insight?

Its likely that, because games that utilize blockchain are OK as long as they don't generate any sort of asset. So like a save file or world state being stored on one seems OK

I think regulators have been hard on targeting Valve and they don't want to be involved in potential issues

as long as its not in my network or pc

i dont want my parts or network to be a piggyback

the custom icon badge is something you can 'redeem' by chatting with a team member. I think shifty handles those, just provide the icon image you'd like to use to them. Sounds like it is also a thing you keep as long as you had that tier at some point in the past

ah okay. A bit like the patron voting thing, I didn't really know about it since the instructions weren't as readily available

I think it is mentioned in the discord 'patrons' channel but yeah wasn't something I was told about how to redeem from the patreon iirc

It is atleast on the wiki along with explanation for other patreon rewards https://wiki.neos.com/Patreon#Custom_Icon_Badge

You want to stab people in the back and then expect them to start doing free labor for you while you insult them? Stop pretending like you're here for any reason than to just drop an occasional petty insult lol

You say some very different stuff on the discord.

Damn the girls are fighting in a telegram group of all places

Take it to dms

Let's go easy on the 'girls' there. Uncomfy phrase.

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I'm happy to see the influx of new users on neos ^w^

I hope to see more content soon, I'm going to be making a few worlds myself in the coming days, as long as I can hopefully find a group of people willing to work alongside me ^w^

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What's the plan ? :o

There is a place in neos for everyone. Especially people who enjoy one of the more exotic forms of the vore fettish.

I've actually got multiple different plans

Plan 1 is a collaborative city, with a couple houses, shops, forest, park, caves, and a couple other misc buildings

Each building / area could be made by a seperate person, and, as an example, someone could have a room in a house and build there, and it could be their room, for decorating what they want

I plan for it to be pretty open (as long as there's no nsfw content, super trolly stuff, racism, etc)
And be a cool little community collab type thing

Plan 2 is to make a little furry hangout like vrchat's Furhub, for the refugees from vrchat who are moving to NeosVR, so hopefully atleast those people will feel somewhat at home with their worlds of choice

I know midnight rooftop is pretty popular right now so that's what gave me the idea for that

And then plan 3 is to try and make a small, general little world for hanging out that won't be too performance intensive, but will look nice and be something comfortable

I think plan 2 should be prioritized as it's a lot smaller in scale and costs (the first plan seems to require a headless, but correct me if I'm wrong)?

Yeah, plan 1 will be a background wip because it requires a lot of work though it'll atleast be something that can be contributed to over time by whoever decides, which I like

I originally did this sort of thing in Tower Unite and it was amazing seeing what some people did with their areas

Someone I met made a whole wizard tower there, and one made a shop, another made a little outside scene with a dumpster you could enter and watch YouTube in, was cool seeing creativity from many different people

I might want a headless for it, but it's probably best to not have one so that there's moderators on when it's hosted

As with a group, anyone in the group can host the world if it's saved to the group ^w^

Sounds good, I don't mind going for it once I finish summer courses, ~2 weeks and at that point I'll actually have some spare time

But the plan 2 and 3 I'll probably get started on asap, as I know a lot of people would enjoy both of those ideas ^w^

Sure then if you got more people don't hold up for me

Wouldn't mind having more hands in the first plan tbh, the more the merrier with a project that's built on collaboration between anyone who wants to help ^w^

I'll gladly contribute to the first thing, that sounds amazing

But yeah something I do wanna make sure while I'm building is that the furhub esque world isn't intimidating to non furries as well.

That's important. I'm not a furry for instance and if the world is too furry I'd leave. Not for disliking you guys (I love furries they're hilarious) but because I'd feel out of place

Many of the vrchat furry worlds only ride off of the fact they're labeled furry, to be honest, which in my opinion isn't really that great

It's why furhub, despite being horribly optimized, has been my favorite
It has decorations, it's pretty, it has different areas to go to, even a little calm area for if you want to be alone with a small group

It's furry themed but there are tons of non furries who hop around there and without them furhub wouldn't have been as fun to hang around honestly.

But yeah no I understand this. It's the same reason I can't really partake in anime themed worlds, I don't watch a lot of anime so worlds themed after different anime (I.e. Jojo worlds and such) I just feel out of place in

Not that I have anything against the fan base, or the anime itself, I just haven't seen it, so most of the time the worlds are geared towards fans and not meant to be general anyone hangout.

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Amen

That's an often misunderstood tweet. They are looking for a regulatory person who understands digital finance this is a person to help them with the legalities of the modern world

Not a person to implement crypto. You need lawyers that understand crypto even if you don't plan to use it

Thank you I saw someone reply that a few days ago but didn't know who and didn't remember the specifics

Tupper actually answered so that's an authoritative answer

Yeah but it makes sense in this context doesn't it? Looking at the proposition that is

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Sigh... If they wanted to do crypto they'd have job recs for crypto Devs.

That's just a person to help with regulatory matters.

Shows just how out of touch you are with the real world / business.

?

typical twitter witch-hunt

attack first ask questions never

https://twitter.com/PastaSparq/status/1552551403523936256/photo/1

Well we're in a time of indecision where ideology matters more than the actual facts. if they go down that path it will be interesting to see I guess, just like if Neos did

either way I don't think VRchat is doing it

yes, this is mud-slinging times for them

does anyone remember when the english speaking world wasn't an endless rotation of angry mobs?

From that tweet it almost sounds like they're having their own Neos moment, lol..

VRC DEV STRIKE!

I'm not, as far as the EAC fiasco I'm actually just interested in seeing how it works out

VRC being quite an interesting testbed of ideas (unintentionally?)

I think Neos lost its way when it stopped wanting to be that

They needed that store imo. however they wanted to do it

of course they didn't. there wasn't an original thought except "copy second life"

thats the most common argument is to just copy second life because they're scared of NCR

I don't think Neos could really handle all the support and stuff to scale up trying to be linden-labs Jr though

yeah they could've made it accessible though steam wallet, paypal and NCR and not acted like NCR just existing was such a controversy

that's a really obscure example...

AFAIK you can sell items on steam for steam wallet and also offer the same items on your own website

so they could've just had the Steam client sell things with regional currencies

So if someone guys an item on steam, the user who created it can't get their cut afterwards?

I'm not sure how the steam terms handle something like that. Quick, whats a non-valve game that sells user created content on steam?

so the money can't go to Neos from Steam, and then Neos doles the cash out to the creators?

Neos died when paid mods died...

Well that's unfortunate because Valve does it themselves, with dota and tf2 items made by the community, and those creators get a (ridiculously small) cut

so like this is why we need crypto guys

all tehse problems because of middlemen

I just mean in a broader sense and with some tongue-in-cheek

well karel's not gonna be coding it I assume...

and I wouldn't trust the devs to code automatic withdraws from client

so the steam issue ties my mind in a knot because it sounds like such an oversight

people also make excuses why they dont

they just want you to play whatever their pet game is

Ok... ONE MORE TIME:

so buy item through Steam, money goes to Neos, that money then cannot go from Neos and be divided among the creators after?

there's, reasons?

my brain is a walnut, explain why

not the "creators of Neos" btw

and by virtual currency you mean steam wallet?

I see

right an in-app purchase must be done by loading steamwallet first

ok NOW I understand

something something fortnite vs apple

so if there was a neos website store, it couldn't interact with Steam. What if there were different Neos markets? like one that just sold items, and didn't involve loading neosbucks or whatever it would be?

I hate to agree, I can't imagine that

is there a good reason for that?

does that have anything to do with why secondlife isn't on steam?

its too early in the morning for me to follow I guess

It was planned at some point

many years ago, there was a steam depot for it

I'd argue so is....

if we keep it up we'll create the neos store before the devs do

is that the item ID system Ive heard talked about?

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Maybe it's actually not such a good idea to make platform specific marketplaces for virtual worlds anymore. It made sense for second life, where everything had to be made in engine and for its special constraints.

Nowadays, things are getting more... Universal. Instead of people being locked into a platform, you can buy models and things and upload them. I suppose functional objects, like with scripting, can't really translate universally.

There's also a lot of legal challenges that come with making a currency and selling digital items for real money. If neos doesn't already also have unique item uuids, it might be a headache to stop people from buying some scripted item and then distributing it to all their friends with anything other than user made DRM

It's how game asset creators have taken advantage of standardizing graphics tech that's allowed a lot of avatar crossover between neos, vrchat, cvr, etc etc, yeah?

The big thing I'm not seeing translate is shaders

Yeah, that's why there's a lot of utilities and stuff to automate this, but sometimes it doesn't work so well. I've seen some creators make files specific for different engines.

I think something the crypto people bring up which is a pretty nice idea is the concept of being able to take something you buy into whatever digital system you want, but I'm not sure how that could be accomplished unless everyone decided on a standard engine with the same scripting, physics, etc etc

It's still amazing though to be able to buy a model and assets and plonk them into vrchat and neos respectively. If only it wasn't so much work in some cases.

lol

It's still a lot better than it was in the oldie sl days. It's been nice.

I was there in the prim days when everything looked like worse than Lego. I wonder why sl did so well in comparison to others in that case.

Neos, vrchat, and chillout really remind me of those early days though, in terms of community and social atmosphere. I'm hoping they manage to avoid the major pitfalls that sl dropped into.

I can see all of the same crazy infighting, community formation and crystallization, conflicts forming. =/

I mean... Neos kind of supports everything import wise. Hell, if I recall, it even support MilkShape3D files

Neos gets it right with allowing in engine creation, I think. That's what always annoys me on vrchat, being unable to change shit while playing. Idk how chillout works in that respect.

same as VRC

That's why some VRC people have gravitated to Chillout: it's basically modded VRC, SDK 2.0 era

Ahhh, hmm.

Neos needs better protections though. You shouldn't be able to edit someone's avatar who you don't know in the world root.

I mean, there are other reasons, but Andrea did touch up on that

Thing is, that's something that just goes with the territory with a permissionless system. I'm not saying it's good, but I'm acknowledging why it is.

There are ways to set up your avatar to make it sort of impossible

Thing is that some edits aren't harmful, and others are. Some gadgets rely on it for simplicity, but I can understand why that'd get abused if left unchecked. Ultimately, Neos's bigger defense is that users can self moderate to a degree. In VRC, you can request someone to be kicked from a session, but that's about it. In Neos, you can establish these rules right away. If group functions were available, you could even update bans to group entities and have sessions optionally follow them as well.

One solution I could see is making amendments to the Simple Avatar Protection system. To help keep backwards compatability, you could introduce a new component titled Advanced Avatar Protection, which offers protection checks against outside modifications and an internal list of accepted systems that are allowed based on the session or when the avatar was last saved. This could work a bit like how local changes work in some sense

A friend of mine instead created a uh... Kind of self replicating script that would reset the avatar back to its original state if edited

that's fine, but let's be brutally honest: is it worth having 100 extra slots to do that, or just one component that lets the system handle it?

It would be very nice if it was built in xD

User solutions are also a sign of desired native functions. I mean, that's kind of what we're seeing with the VRChat shitshow going on. Having an avatar auto reset and even being able to define the resetted state would be pretty neat. That also doesn't mean that user solutions go away entirely, because there might be cases where you DO want edits, but only under specific conditions. If the component can be permission granted to certain systems, including ones inside itself, then you could enhance the protection with logix as well, giving even more options without needing to go crazy

I like that there can be user solutions though. Custom huds, personal tools, that sort of thing is just fun

The way neos works is a lot closer to what I want than other platforms.

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yo

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Welcome!

Oh lol I guess with those messages deleted it looks like you're saying that to me xD

How silly

"im going to call the police because a random telegram user said another one pees their pants"

Reported

They're just seeking attention, it's fine to ignore them.

I can confirm

Yeah, I accidentally misgendered them and apologized. It was my bad.

Misgendered you?...

Mistakes happen. Heck, had that occur with an old friend of mine I hadn't seen in awhile last night.

was cool seeing them again either way

I forget my own pronouns half the time, but it still sucks to get misgendered.

Dude I have screenshots of me asking you not to interact with me and then blocked you when you compared me to a cartoon weasel xD

Eh, people might just have a bad day when that happens. It is cool though that in Neos you can just add the pronouns to nametags, which helps out quite a lot. Heck, I even RGBed one with a pastel outline. Came out pretty nicely

That would be out of scope =p

Speaking of, we should get back on topic. 👏

Hi guys,
I have downloaded the NEOS Pro Launcher on my Lenovo Ideapad Gaming 3

unfortunately I get this error message

"failed to download update!"

although I downloaded the latest version from neos.com

Thanks a lot for the help

It might be easier to get help in the discord server.

short qustion i somhow activatet pointer mode in desktop i kant turn around anymore wirth my mouse, how can i change it back again ?

The Pro Launcher is meant for licensed users. There is the main download link, which is based on the pro launcher, but is slimmed down for regular users. It doesn't contain the actual program when you install it.
You might need to check your firewall, but I'd highly suggest the Discord for more direct technical assistance.

What's licensed and unlicensed users?

Pointer mode? I had to jump to the Wiki to look around for that, since that actually sounds really helpful and neat. Unfortuantely, you're going to want to poke the Discord for that, since I'm unsure how that mode was even activated in the first place (sounds like Edit Mode, but I digress)

NeosVR offers a Professional License for users who intend to use Neos as a source of generated income, mostly for bigger projects. They also have an educational license system as well.
I'd link to the page on the website that talks about it, but there isn't one anymore.
There is the wiki page: https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Pro

Woah what

Oh that's so cool!

In previous times, Neos was used quite a bit with education systems, namely universities. One demo was for helping students train on how to correctly put on PPEs when dealing with patients who have very infectious diseases. I can find a video about it, but the general idea is that PPEs, even training ones, cost a large amount of money. However, you can screw up a virtual PPE as many times as you want.

I had no idea about that, that's kind of awesome

it's probably irresponsible to promote the pro license considering the state of the pro license*

but yeah, as noted by the Wiki, you don't really need it unless for being a major project. Of course, you can ask the mentor team should you feel a project's scope may warrant it, but there's a strong chance that unless it involves commercial use, it won't

No desire for that either. Sounds like someone wants attention, so here's your 5 minutes of it. It's all you are getting today

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hiya ^^

I'm taking a break tonight from user onboarding. Want to be fresh for the weekend rush. Man this has been fun ^^

more or less my feelings from yesterday. I'm still planning on getting some headless sandboxes going at some point, so users have a guaranteed place to meet up and not have to worry about someone's PC or Network throwing a fit

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Figure this is probably the best place to ask. Anyone recommend a tax calculator that's good with coinbase, Metamask, blockfi, coinspot, and supports Australian taxes?

with coinbase, I know there was some partnered service, but I think it only can help with US taxes and it is rather finicky at best. Its estimates were more than 100x off

unfortunately, I do not remember its name and I deleted my account with them after dealing with the estimates being so far off, that I was better calculating it by hand and using my email receipts to get the rates based on the dates

Gm all

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Gm all

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Evening.

Evening @CryoMyst and welcome everyone, lovely to see you all joining ☺️

Hello and welcome ☺️hopefully there will be a few Australian community members that can offer some advice on this, let’s see☺️

Hope everyone is going to have a great weekend and plenty of fun and chill in both Neos and outside too☺️☀️

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wow didnt ask

Can someone convince me to switch to neos

Or else what

Anything we can do to make the influx of (crypto positive) people joining Neos from VRC to know about NCR?

Still not sure what's the problem with NCR

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Not much we can do since the discord is full of anticrypto (anti NCR at this point) constantly asking for its removal..

There is nearly to Zero trust now, after the decisions and handeling of announcements, the coin and interactions from Karel.

I'll see if I can't give a slightly non-hostile response:
In a nutshell, if you enjoyed sandbox games like Garry's Mod, where you can build things in real time or just bring out items to play around with, then you'll most likely enjoy Neos, because it shares the same idea. Instead of having to go to the Unity editor to add an accessory item or prop, you can just have the item in your inventory, and bring it around with you anywhere.

And items are not limited to just 3D models. Vacation photos, funny videos, and even music can all be carried in your inventory and brought out in-world to either share with others or to just show. Instead of finding worlds with specific videos players, you can just bring the video player on the go.

In addition, should you have any trouble with something, other people can jump in and help out. Because Neos allows collaborative building, other denizens can help with importing avatars, adding cool features, or even fixing something that isn't quite right. All your options and tools needed to do something are available at start, and you have full control over who can access your sessions, which can be adjusted on the fly without having to restart.

I just tried to import my custom avatar and I don't understand why it's not work

There are a few guides that can help walk through how to do the import, but I'd highly suggest visiting a world where people are offering to help with importing your avatar. I did see one the previous night, and I'm sure the other people in-world can help out.
I'd offer to help of course, but I'm at work. You can also ask the mentor team on Discord, who can also answer any questions that perhaps your custom avatar is having trouble with.

(and as much as I could grab my steamdeck and try to jump in, while I can do avatar imports in desktop mode, I haven't done it with a controller exclusively)

But under normal conditions, an basic avatar import takes only 5 minutes. Adding additional features, like state toggles, does involve a bit more work, but this was also the same within the Unity editor

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FUD in chat

Morning/Afternoon, just checking in to see if you have an update regarding updating the Patreon page. I'm seeing a lot of VRChat users rejecting Neos because of the NFT support listed on the Patreon even though Neos currently does not support or provide NFTs. Thanks!

I second this. Would be nice to see the Patreon revised a bit with some more updated information and maybe even some additional tiers, since I know some people would like storage only perks.

There is no NFT support in Neos because of their high carbon footprint. After the Ethereum network solves that problem with the upcoming Consensus Layer (formerly known as Eth 2.0) we will be able to mint those unique NFTs for our supporters holding the respective Patreon tiers at the time. Patrons will be able to opt-out of the reward the same as they can currently opt-out of NCR rewards.

Thanks Karel. Suggestion, would you be able to add the opt-out phrase to the Patreon at a minimum? At least then we can respond to critics of "Neos supporting NFTs" by telling them if they choose to support Neos on Patreon they will be able to opt-out of NFTs

5 minutes for the day. Since you can copy my message, why don't you copy the entire thing, since you are inclined to post about it.

There's no inclusion of the message I was responding to. You can copy a single message, yet you didn't copy the one the mattered. I will not bend down to your own standards, and you only illustrate the point. If you hold no concerns, then you can do it yourself.

That's a link. You can clearly do more than that. That's where I'll end it.

That’s a good idea, tier descriptions have been updated. I have a hard time understanding why someone would opt out at that time when the thing people don’t like about non fungible tokens has been solved, but it definitely should be a personal decision. The holder can transfer or destroy them at any time anyways.

Just the token prior to Neos having the Id system, but an actual unique item with cool functionality after.

Thanks Karel!

What's the advantage to using an NFT, rather than a simple permission system, or a unique ID system? Wouldn't incorporating NFTs to link a token to an item be more costly in CPU and time in order to transfer items that aren't allowed to be copied?

Then furthermore, wouldn't it be superfluous, given that you would need to implement a system in which a unique ID can be used in conjunction with making an item impossible to copy, or create multiple instances of the item?

Regardless of whether or not you use NFTs to track the IDs, because the NFT itself is part of the contract system of Ethereum, so it would only point to a link, or ID?

Weren't we talking the other day about how this is hindered by the lack of universal systems for metaverse applications?

no

EG, avatars that are only compatible with applications that use Unity as its underpinning

Not yet anyway

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In order for an item to be transferred from Neos to another application/metaverse, it would need to be compatible with that other application/metaverse, so the use of an NFT to give universal transfer is reliant on systems that don't exist, and wouldn't require NFTs to function.

Furthermore, for Neos to prevent users from copying NFT items/objects/entities, it would need a unique ID system that can be understood by the permissions system which doesn't exist yet.

Also, for the NFT-linked item to be transferrable, all Metaverse applications, or other applications that allow the item would need to use the same ID system, or be able to take the NFT's token ID and link it to its own ID and permission system.

Therefore, you would create a system that is no longer decentralized, because it would require multiple entities to have a centralized agreement upon which these things can be done, in a standardized way.

Also, economically speaking, this would force large metaverse applications to adopt the use of the most popular blockchain technologies in order to be compatible with the standards, in the event that it's necessary for monetization to occur.

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Not to mention externalities like people being unable to access crypto altogether in some cases, which may lock them out of participating in marketplaces, such as those in countries where crypto-blockchain technologies are banned.

Karel There is a constant criticism inside the neos community about the number of NCR buybacks that are happening from the official neos wallet. What is the rationality behind this? It seems like neos itself is going to end up owning the majority of NCR. Most people seem to beleive it is an attempt at price control.

🍿🤭

Actually, NFTs are simply a use of the Ethereum Blockchain's 'contract' features. It's not an intended feature, but instead of embedding a contract, JSON is embedded to point to an ID, link, or any other text that you could want. It's not necessarily an ID, but it's always a JSON file.

Welcome, Marnix and Ch0ppy! Rather odd timing on the joining, just pointing that out.

Okay... so that explains how the voxel stuff works then. Kind of neat.

Then regardless, it would still require a standardized and agreed-upon ID system, or force metaverse applications to find a way to use those ID systems if they want to participate.

Nothing that I suggested changes.

No, it would require that the metaverse applications decide on a standardized type of ID, so that there's no overlap or repeating IDs. The NFT isn't an ID, it only contains an ID. It contains a JSON file that can contain an ID, or any other text.

If metaverse applications decide to use their own kinds of IDs, then it would also require that all other metaverse applications that want objects to be transferrable between each other to implement these IDs, or have some kind of parser as well.

the nft's address and id kv pair is the unique id... not sure what you mean

Then wouldn't using an NFT for this purpose be superfluous given that any crypto token of any kind could be used as the identifier?

So the ID is contained inside the JSON file

Is the token the ID, or not?

what is json, vulpes

JSON is a file format that's used to make human-readable text files, which is usually used for configuration, but can have many uses.

It's used for everything from configuration files to storing dialog for games, save files, etc etc

Just making sure I understand...
The concern is that the proposed NFTs that were spoken about are supposed to be given out to people, with linked IDs from Neos so that the Neos internal representations can be linked, such that once it is brought into Neos, the 'cool functions' actually work? So if the item was brought out, and that data was submitted to another system, assuming the same functions were to be carried, it'd have to be linked into the JSON data of the token, so other systems know how to handle it, but that'd require an agreed consensus on how to handle function calls?

what is the primary feature of json that makes it usable for conveying data

It's easily parsed by computers and easily read by humans. It's a specific format.

ok so you dont actually know

It's like XML

i asked only because i already answered your question, but i dont think you realized it due to your ignorance on the topic

json assembles data in key-value pairs, providing a data relationship

Well, I'm not a programmer, so 🥴

answered here in the replied message

yeah idk why you pretend to be knowledgeable on things you dont have an understanding of

its one of your worst traits

That's really cool, but instead of insulting me, you could just actually answer questions like a normal person instead of having a superiority complex.

And being passive aggressive

And asking trick questions

Because it doesn't add anything

It just makes you look like an asshole

i dont have a superiority complex. there are a lot of tech pretenders in here FUDing about NFTs despite not understanding how they function or what they even are

so im going to call out the ignorance

it's not a trick question to ask "what is json"

I'm actually trying to talk about something and asking questions, and if people know more than me I'm super interested in hearing what they have to say instead of having inspirational gnomes flout about trying to 'expose' me

If you are dealing with who I think you are, they won't. They cower at being direct because they can't. Sadly, a demonstration on why moderation here is lacking, which we need given the user influx.

im quite literally directly calling them ignorant

No what really pisses me off is that they know what they're talking about but all they care about is trying to make people look bad.

I can't tell what's genuine or not from them, I can't tell when they're actually trying to be helpful, or raise a point, or if they're just trying to make someone look like a fool or piss them off

you can characterize me however you like

The conversation was going normal and I was interested in hearing what they have to say but then they started in on me. I had no idea that the token itself is formatted AS a JSON file, which makes sense now. That answers part of my damn question, but no, they have to puff up their chest and call me ignorant.

If crypto tokens really ARE a good idea for Neos then I want them to succeed, but I wanna ask questions about it.

Without being talked down to.

you posted 5+ paragraphs about the function of nfts

thats how it started

but you dont understand them

so its a bit weird

"Hey, I think you have some fundamental misunderstandings about how these technologies work. It might change the way you think about it if you knew X X and X"

Is that so hard

That's why I give them no more time than I'm willing to care about. They'll do whatever they must to fulfill their desired outcome.
And for the record, a title of programmer isn't needed to understand JSON. That's like requiring an engineering degree to explain the fundamentals of a shopping list.

Is it just a thing with most engineers and programmers to be like that? I don't get it.

this is true you dont have to be a programmer to understand what json is

so there's really no excuse here

There it is again

The superiority bullshit

So fucking high and mighty about everything

Gods

er... ok...

😐

It's best to just leave it be. Any discussions here will only be met with dismay. If you prefer intelligent discussions, I'd suggest the discord. That's where the helpful people are.

you have to get used to them

I understand now that you literally don't get it

I wouldn't expect intelligent discussion about this topic there.

i understand what you're accusing me of, but idk how me understanding what json is plays into that

it seems like a problem on your end

It's never about what it's about

It's about how you approach it every time

You'd be surprised, actually. However, given the "leaked" information from the Discord to here, it'd appear like that is the case. As a previous event I shine no more light to, some information is cut off to serve a narrative.

Not sure what you mean

see a therapist hun

you are the Princess Azula of my telegram rn

just without the firebending

My position on NFTs in Neos is "can I as a creator sell an object as an NFT on whatever the official store would be?" if the answer is no then there's a problem

Oh my gods I don't care it's not worth it, I just want to talk about Neos and crypto so can we please just get along for five fucking minutes

Economics IS something that I study and I'm interested in and that's why I'm here

That's actually neat. Those were my electives of choice with my degree.

Whatever the implementation I imagine it'll step on some toes. I think they should just be something behind the item or in its description that verifies it came from the actual creator's contract. Or maybe loaded in from decentralized storage like an IPFS if it's not so slow

NFTs have a huge problem in that they may be targeted by the authorities, because the majority (more than 90%) of huge money NFTs have been touched by the same six entities on the blockchain, which might suggest manipulations where six people, or some group of people are working together to dramatically inflate the price.

Regardless of whether or not NFTs are targeted rather than the people, it could cause huge PR issues

This might affect how Neos is viewed if it uses NFTs

Externalities like this can sink ships

Man, I haven't heard of IPFS in awhile. I'm guessing the real limit is how many gateways there would be, depending on the protocol. I know some offer HTTP, but I'm not sure if there are other ones that dedicate more raw streaming or what have you.

I dunno, I'm willing to accept that it's a dirty word at this point. But patreons should absolutely get their promised NFTs. I agree maybe they should remove that from the Patreon description, but all prior patreons should be awarded their promised NFTs. That should be non negociable

I have exactly 1 NFT and it costed $10 and bought only because it was a friend's artwork

the IPFS foundation stores all openseas NFTs on their own node because they believe it's important, I think they do other platforms. And if Neos store offered them I think they'd do that too

this is something I'm not super knowledgeable about though

Especially starting at $72 a month, I can concur

we're at a point where if someone sees those three letters, some teenager on twitter is going to try to blow it up and slander Neos over it, so I guess I don't entirely disagree with removing it from Patreon reward descriptions for a time until people stop filling their diapers over it

actually I lied, I have 2. the other was given for going to some event (in Neos)

how easy is it to copybot a neos avatar? I know in VRC you could jack their whole unity package, I doubt EAC will stop that either

I know it's not all that hard because I know people who experimented with it.

If someone buys something from the Neos store and it comes with a little nft that acts as proof of an authentic item and also offers -some- future potential of being a cross-platform object (even if just to stimulate the purchaser's imagination) then I think it's only a good thing

Developing formats like GLTF can handle this though

How does that prevent asset theft?

no it doesn't

Oh that doesn't but neither do NFTs.

What would GLTFs be for then? Transferability?

one of many 3D scene formats wanting to be the "standard" iirc

Basically, yeah. It's an open standard by the Khronos group. Virtually any engine supports it, and adding support is fully documented.

it's not at all the same thing

as what we're talking about

We were talking about preventing asset theft

going from talking about preserving the uniqueness of items crossplatform vs transferring 3d assets crossplatform

However, I hope they fixed KTX's file sizes... yes it's cool you can GPU stream directly, but I recall their files always being larger than their compressed counterparts

they conflate the two bc they dont understand either of them

GLTF? more like GTFO

to be clear an nft alone wouldn't prevent someone stealing a 3D object, but it'd be a non-forgable way to prove yours is "real" and bought from the actual creator

tbh I wouldn't mind either. I think it can be made where people can have an ownership experience even if someone's able to go through hoops and copy things

Security is almost always eventually able to be defeated, yeah.

doing something is better than doing nothing

it's why we use locks even though you can google "how to pick locks"

what's important isn't preventing theft as much as making the ownership experience better imo

yeah i feel that too

I'm not totally convinced that NFTs are a necessary piece of the puzzle for that though. I'm also not altogether convinced that they're necessary for cross-platform 'objects.'

Yes, a good example being the VRM format which is some sort of GLTF with extra spice.

We see VRMs in many software right now. I just saw a VRM mod for Raft which had VRChat avatars running around on a raft. That's interoperability.

I'd trust a smart contract platform to manage those certificates more than I'd trust like.. solirax alone is all I can think

There needs to be some kind of failsafe in the event the network dies, or is replaced, or something like that.

Which... Does eventually mean that it needs to be managed in some way

Otherwise you can't guarantee people's 'goods' will be safe

right, I'd care about that. I dont know why we couldn't just have multiples. and even so all this stuff should be optional from the creator

idk... how thats being missed here

i think im gonna hop on neos lol it's a bit hard to have this conversation in earnest

Crypto as a concept was introduced as a decentralized currency, but it fell into every single pitfall that a decentralized currency falls into until major entities popped up to control the exchanges. It can be useful, but it's never actually going to be fully decentralized. The currency exchange is already regulated in many ways that utilizes multiple centralized entities

This is all in order to prevent theft, scams, to prove who actually owns things. Even the freezing of assets.

All of this requires centralized organizations to act as exchange authorities.

If it's going to be useful as a currency, exchange of monetary value, or it's used to trade goods in any way, it will eventually need all of these things. They aren't things that people just agreed on over night, it's all stuff that emerged naturally the same way it did with "physical" money

need what things?

I dont want us to get into a conversation that's prolly been hashed out like a hundred times already on the bitcointalk forums in 2010

It's something people get into a lot, especially when you're around economics students

Everything for them is divorced from what it 'actually' is, everything becomes variables

what things

Centralized organizations/authorities that monitor and regulate exchanges in order to prevent scams, theft, and illicit activity. Crypto money had a problem with 'painting the tape' for instance, which was one driving force for regulation emerging.

nice edit

Yes, I have ADHD and I make typos because I have malapropisms, thank you

Please just leave me alone

you keep joining public chats and asking people to leave them

I don't care if you're here or not, I just don't want you needling me

do whatever you want

if your adhd is causing you this much strife maybe telegram isnt for you (full disclosure i also have adhd so idk why this is being used as an excuse in this circumstance)

It's a thing in any kind of trade

why is it being used as an example of a pitfall of cryptocurrency

i dont even like crypto and i can recognize that's a bit fallacious

Do you remember when I mentioned that =< 90% of NFTs were touched by the same six addresses? This is an example of this activity.

Also, I didn't make an excuse, I explained my typo, woohoo

congrats

You got me

can we move on

Can you stop obsessing over me plz

uhhh

I don't see NFTs being particularly useful for large metaverse objects at the moment. Assuming we standardize an object description language, then they could be a bit more useful, but really only as a form of cloud backup (assuming the assets are stored on ipfs and not just linked directly to the azure store). The very mechanisms that would make this system useful in the context of a metaverse space means they are kinda useless as a form of asset protection even though i see that supposed use touted a lot. I like the idea of interoperability, though this could be achieved in ways that don't require smart contracts.

ipfs is a peer to peer system, right?

sort of, maybe see a short video bout it

kinda, it's a distributed file store. i actually quite like the idea.

So it's like storing all of the files across everyone instead of single files being on single peers

Everyone has little bits and pieces

yup. It's like torrents, except instead of holding the whole files, you just agree to set aside space for bits of the packages

yeah, there is some redundancy built in. the best way i can describe it is you have like a web cache of things you have viewed, and you serve those same files when someone new needs one. in addition to that you can 'pin' a particular file to make sure it is always available from a particular computer when people go looking for it.

it's not theft prevention, it's authentication. It doesn't solve the analogue hole problem, but it can make an object have an authentication that can't be forged

multiple things can do that but nothing else can really do it in a decentralized manner... that's why it's relevant or rather relevant to all the theoretical hopes of cross platform stuff

Yeah, without a pinning service, self-hosted or otherwise it's not perfect. But it's good enough IMO. We really should just normalize individual data stewardship, but I think that ship has sailed.

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Standardizing an object description is a more fundamental concern to that hope. NFTs provide a distributed ledger and sure could be used as a record of receipt, but so could a PDF. I don't personally care so much about proving ownership that I'd be on board with grafting Ethereum, PoS or otherwise, onto every metaverse browser. I don't really see a way to weave that into the fabric of the metaverse that doesn't reinforce classism. An open and indelible record of your transactions would make it incredibly easy to discriminate based on purchasing power.

This is why I favor MIT's SOLID ptoject. You can verify snippets of personal data to authorized parties. Hell, we could use good old PKI signatures to verify purchases trivially in a way that would at least make it more difficult to get a full purchasing history of a given individual. We can tackle this in a decentralized manor with other tools.

None

I have no idea wtf you're talking about with haves and havenots and saying you can do this with a PDF but it's clearly not what we were talking about earlier

None

like it was said before when Prime popped in it's like conflating two different things while understanding neither

None

😂

None

This is just the consequence of linking someone's identity indelibly to their purchases. A PDF can serve as a receipt, an NFT can serve as a receipt. To me the bonuses that come with an NFT are moot because we can solve the problems it solves without indelibly linking someone with their purchases. There are already well treaded methods to do so.

This... doesn't solve the same problems. It's like you thought you should shoehorn some legitimate data privacy concerns into talks about unique digital ownership just to have SOMETHING. ANYTHING. to push back against people talking about a blockchain use case. Thankfully there's plenty of tech projects that can be blargh'd at someone to sound smart but that aren't really related like GNU taler, merkletrees, json web tokens, now Solid, to try to dab on people while not really being smart enough to realize whatever the flavor is this time isn't decentralized, trustless and permissionless and why having all 3 is needed. But you might be able to fool some people and hey, that's what most of you are here to do.

as for you saying PDFs just... that should've been when I smh and stopped caring

NFTs are just actually bad my dude :P They bring nothing to the table to offset the frankly dystopian levels privacy erasure and classism at the cornerstone of their appeal. We can verify authenticity with any number of cryptographic hashing and signature checks, why would we use an NFT? Seriously. I have killed the sacred cow of digital ownership and a pdf receipt is just fine to me. But even if you hold that dear, what do NFTs give you that a PKI signature and ipfs do not? Why on earth would we want to involve a massive public log of our transactions when we can just verify a chain of trust on a per 'transaction' basis?

I don't care really as much about NFTs as I do pointing out to you that all the shit you're pushing doesn't serve the same function. Fundamentally. And also to point out that private NFT ownership is possible, and I dont know it might be being done now

as for all this appeal about classism... I dont know what knot you've tied your brain into to think it has anything to do with digital purchases. Like I can have a goddamn fortnite skin than you don't and am I going to start going "fucking NFTs this is CLASSISM" how is this any different?

I once made 15 bnb with @BigDaySignals I know its not insane but I 24x which is pretty wild to me. Could we get them to call our project?

I rail against fortnight skins too, but I feel it would be preaching to the choir. But as we're here, seriously the toxic dynamic that fortnight is instilling in kids to literally just binge crass consumerism on top of the back of peer bullying and fomo is disgusting.

Fine I wouldn't disagree but it's already happening. Like most gwme studios are hiring actual psychologists to find out how to sell things to people and waste peak amounts of their time already

but no one was drawing the line until the concept of someone having actual custody over said items became a possibility? it sounds more like simping for the status quo to me.

and its moot anyway as we were talking about how nfts nor whatever youre pushing this time solves problems of asset theft... so who is being the victim? If you can still copybot and have it and you can have your political paradise where everything is free for the taking, whats the problem?

it's not, but the ubiquity of skinnerbox manipulation and peer network effects make it such a massively transformed force IMO. I am also disgusted in these tactics being used against adults, as we do not seem to be willing to regulate it as gambling, yet it has the same impact.

just restrictions on what ways people can buy and sell things doesnt really provide consumer protection for digital purchases imo

I don't have a problem with it until it wants to be foundational to a space. I have structural concerns with it and don't see too much merit in its use to offset the changes in behavior. Experimenting with new concepts is laudable, but so is looking at the consequences.

If i challenged you to point to real public good being enabled by NFTs, I think you'd agree it would be harder than if I challenged you to point to real public good being enabled by cryptocurrencies as a whole. In my research, the best argument I've found was an initiative by walmart and IBM for tracking produce to better enable public supply chain auditing.

I find that an interesting specific usecase, pretty far removed from the core concept of digital ownership but a genuinely useful application of the technology which IMO might even justify the overhead by putting more eyeballs on our food logistics.

In the art asset space, I really don't see much positive. A lot of grifts enabled by the abstract and uncertain nature of the utility of an NFT as well as convenient conflation of an NFT and ownership whereas this certainly carries no legal weight past (best case) the initial sale. It brings to the table the promise of things it cannot deliver on: real legal ownership, the analogy of the right of first sale in a digital space. In the end it is literally only as good as the paperwork surrounding its initial purchase: it relies on that (laughable) pdf analogy to carry any legal weight.

So I say again. It's just as useful as a PDF receipt of your gumroad purchase, but with a hell of a lot more baggage and infrastructural overhead.

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We were just talking the prior day ways it could be used to enchance someone's purchase. Maybe YOU don't care about some of those enhancements but that doesn't mean there aren't those who do like them.

And sigh. No one was saying any of this stuff should be forced, I think we were in agreement of that. If the Neos store won't let me provide an NFT with an avatar part I sell, then it's not me trying to change behavior. It's YOU who wants to box people into your ideals.

and sure if I need to I could easily think about several ways these things could enable new types of games. That kind of brainstorming is actually the easy part, lol

I don't particularly mind if someone individually sells a (theoretically carbon neutral) nft of their own creations incidentally on a storefront as an expression of their personal interest in the technology. Setting up some bridge between opensea or whatever beyond the environmental impact, doesn't affect me. At least at the hobbyist level of engagement.

I have major issues with NFTs as commercial endeavors. I have major issues enabling NFTs as part of the core technology stack of a metaverse engine. I view engaging with them at scale as inherently exploitative due to the misconceptions I've noted about how much digital ownership is actually ownership. I cannot see a way to ethically support them at scale without a massive effort in user education and addiction support resources.

To be fair this is also roughly my opinion about lootboxes, mass produced collectables and even TCGs. I still feel NTFs have been given particular 'legitimacy' as financial assets and a form of 'digital ownership' which makes them even more dangerous to engage with. At least funko pops and physical TCGs actually do have the right of first sale. There is something particularly galling about seeing this level of commercial exploitation entirely absent any bastion of common-sense notions of ownership.

You can probably guess my stance on NFT TCGs :P

I have a hard time getting where you draw this arbitrary line. Because exclusion of digital items is already in most games now. Apparently being able to trade/gift/sell whatever you buy or earn in a game is what you'd rather stand against. And do that by railing ideologically against what is in actuality a move toward seperating the player's data from the operating service itself and how that is more fair.

And none of this shit has anything to do with the software. Except that you've projected all this shit onto it.

I'm not sure why you can't see this as an improvement in digital TCGs. There's actual improvements easily imaginable outside of being able to trade/sell/loan/gift cards. An example from the top of my head is if you play MTG arena and you invented a new format they don't or won't support (edh for example) then you could build out an app ontop of that permissionless layer so that you could play with cards you "officially" have. Or more interestingly, you meet someone in Neos who plays. Now you could play manually with actually owned cards.

Sure you could say store the player's game data in a pods they have custody over it, but then its not tamperproof. So it doesn't have any meaning in a game where integrity matters. If everyone could freely edit a save in an MMO then frankly no one would play them, so trustless matters. Just like your GODDAMN example of a PDF doesn't work.

And maybe you dont like any of that shit then fine, don't play them. Or play your own version where you have all the cards and the game doesnt connect to your wallet. But obviously people care about concepts like "official" and ownership and having earned things, because there's free versions of cardgames but almost everyone plays the official ones. Because that ownership experience is fun for most and I don't get why you get to deny people that.

I think it gets more perverted when there's only one source for something and they're free to manipulate or twist arms with gambling, time limits, etc. which is what we're stuck with now

I don't view TCGs as desirable on the whole. They are an exploitive format, literally designed to justify card churn and keep the money rolling regardless of how that affects the playability or accessibility of play. As someone deeply invested in the traditional games' scene, TCGs are a barometer for the health of a community. They will be there, and they will move an assload of product. However, the more of the store that is dedicated to them the less likely you will be to be able to pick up a friendly game.

Digital TCGs are addictive, more accessible to a degree because of the amount of rules automation they enable. I have played and enjoyed them. There is a large part of my mind that ridicules any time I buy a digital card pack though, and it makes even less sense given it's not even supporting a game store. Trading cards is the primary mechanic of a TCG. The game exists to sell more cards, it may be fun, but it is a marketing effort to sell you tat. NFTs don't remedy that, they enable it. Do they give back some of the freedoms of physical cards? No.

See, that's the rub right there. An NFT does not convey any right whatsoever to the ownership or use of the card. But people will think they do. The NFL released a collection of NFT video clips of match highlights that do not confer the right to do anything with that clip but watch it in their approved application. NFTs are useless except where they are backed by the legal license to explicitly do what you explicitly want to do. They are a technical fiction, the solution here is IP law reform.

It is just as legal to play using an asset rip from a digital card game on Neos as it would the same game using NFTs to represent card ownership. The literal only purpose that NFTs would serve in this hypothetical is a way to represent the statistical scarcity and enable the sunk cost gatekeeping that is the cornerstone of competitive TCGs, and the ruination of innovative formats.

Modeling the probabilities of a booster draft doesn't require NFTs. NFTs just enable the most questionable aspects of TCGs by churching it up in the fiction of 'digital ownership'.

why do people play them then? lol

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look if you want either IP reform or consumer protection for digital purchases then that I can agree with.. but Id rather pay attention now to those who have working proof of concepts to give people a whole new layer to build new, fairer structures off of

I dont care about NFL saying what I can't do, neither does an NFT honestly

Gambling can be fun and consumerism is the dominant paradigm.

konami can ban you from online yugioh but they cant take back custody of an nft you own so.... Id rather give interest to new systems than hoping laws will fuck me alittle less in the IP section

and I dont even care about NFTs that much but I think what youre saying is ideological bullshit

I dunno maybe you think youre everyone's therapist or some shit

If you didn't think what I was saying was ideological bullshit it would be because we shared the same viewpoint. We are always already eating from the trashcan of ideology.

Consumerism is an ideology, just one I question heavily. Hince my purely ideological support of the creative commons, open-source software and free culture generally.

Building in mechanisms to gatekeep the metaverse, especially to economically gatekeep it, flies directly against my ethos. So I really, really do not like NFTs as they are marketed currently. I am still somewhat open to the possibility of an innovative use of NFTs that won't trip the rampant consumerism alarm, but I want to see that actually in popular practice before I will consider pushing for them.

As mentioned above, I still think they may have utility in building large scale systems of accountability and awareness. But definitively, screw designing our infrastructure concepts with the primary rationale of commercialization. Especially in a climate of pervasive advertisement surveillance. It is borderline irresponsible to push a solution that makes individuals' data far more publicly exposed, doesn't have the concept of a spam filter, and is critically vulnerable to poison smart contracts.

For anyone interested in helping new users find their way, I am constructing an faq and basics of neos page.
https://www.deliriousjax.com/neosvr.html

First time tonight and it was very fun.

None

Have yall seen this hidden gem? @CesarsSpawnCalls today is going to be a day for the record books 📈

Probably working on actual documentation. This is just my own take questions I am asked and a community made beginner's guide. I have no intent of investing the incredible amount of work and time he has thus far working his butt off on the wiki. Which reminds me, I should link that as well on this page.

more like jax the delusional

Hell yeah!

?

I like cheeee

🧀

There is a difference between lactose intolerance and being allergic to it.

The “I like cheese” thing is super cringe and Prime says it every time he tries to derail the conversation.

Cringe is fuel.

Plus I greatly appreciate the break from the constant technical only talk and bullying nature of some of the people in this chat, to be perfectly honest.

The numbers are quite heavily shifted, when messages being often deleted later on.

gonna jump on my steamdeck to look around and see how things are midday. Work stuff pretty much dealt with

None

I've never deleted a message in here. Check it against the archives which I'm sure some of you are keeping offline.

IT's getting warm in here >.>

I am not quoting that Nelly song

Evening everyone, l work for one of the chains and am looking to have a quick chat with someone on the Team, would someone be able to point me in the right direction?

one of the chains

Yup. I'm not here to soft shill. If someone on the Team is interested, I'll share.

Not sure what "one of the chains" means but you can dm Karel or email hello@neos.com

But like, doesn't sharing ahead of time help deter the suspicion?

Suspicion of me being "a waste of a time" for the business development effort? Where the person on the Team responsible for handling outreach/response is spending too much time talking to people leading to nothing and there's a barrier of filtering I'm having to break through?

Business enquiries can be directed to these 2 points of contact

Well, I mean there is a website with an actual email link where through I am assuming business inquiries would be best redirected.

hello@neos.com is the email from the website

What people don’t realize is that the Feted Inner Cabal of furry volunteers have been friends and lovers in Second Life for literally decades. The furry development scene in SL was a giant social PVP power grab game and latching onto Neos was an extension of that. These people have been at this for years including Geenz - and they socially engineered Frooxius into onboarding them as the opportunists they were. You can thumbs down this all you want. I watched all of this unfold in real-time over the past 15 years.

https://i.imgur.com/G4Ecne8.png

Thank you, I've gone ahead and sent Karel a DM.

Not at all Tizzy, I'm just stating my love for cheese!

At least I'm not spreading rumors, insults and lies? And I'm not discriminatory.

At least I don’t hide behind the disingenuous illusion of professionalism while being complicit in dismantling the reputation, optics, and platform of Neos.

I'm doing none of that, but thanks for the feedback.

May I suggest you stop attacking the personal choices of our team and instead provide feedback like you just did towards me. Their choice in fandom, self expression, identity, sexuality etc has nothing to do with this current issue and continually pointing this out just serves to label you as someone who doesn't support diversity in the workplace. Its concerning. Thank you.

Oh my gods they were networking. How terrible. This has never, ever happened. No one at microsoft knows each other, for instance. No one in any business has ever been a colleague or peer in any way.

sounds like you are doxxing people

Prime predictably pulling out all of the tired cancel’isms and ad hominem attacks. You can play that hand, but it doesn’t make my observations any less correct.

He didn't do any ad hominem attacks what are you talking about

You're welcome to observe their interests but your one rhetoric is "neos team is bad because <personal choices nothing to do with their work>" Its very problematic. If you instead say I don't know. "Prime needs to write MORE/BETTER docs." That's fine feedback I DO.

Prime however, does not need to change their life choices to do this. He just needs to stop responding to Tizzy in the TG and go do that.

I love that for you.

Prime needs more high quality cheese and a kettle of the finest tea.
And maybe a pack of crackers. I prefer Italian Herb and Spice. That stuff is amazing.

I actually really like VRChat and have a lot of close people in my life who work for Graham/Ron/Jesse. Their team is very low drama and full of awesome people who aren't trying to fracture the company over petty disagreements.

Even this feedback is better, as it doesn't mention "Furry cabal" once, thank you.

Neos is the laughing stock of the social VR industry and a shining example of how not to run a startup. There's some feedback.

*cough* CVR is worse *Cough cough*

Again, valid. While I disagree I can't complain. Its void of any personal attacks or logical flaws. Thank you.

Prime’s tripe usually reads like a GPT3 bot trying really hard to sound human but falls in the uncanny valley that doesn’t quite pass the turing test.

And we're back to personal attacks. Fantastic... didn't you just send me an apology DM last week?

Eugh

rofl apology letter?

🍿🤭

Yeah.