From your alt account

Probably somebody fucking with you

None

🥤😐

It's always strange to see so much stone throwing from those residing in amorphous solid silicate structures. But I'm sure the tune will change yet again to peace, love and understanding the next time the fickle tides of public opinion clash with the chosen dramatis persona.

Schrödinger's troll. Yet it is no doubt a mystery why good faith is no longer assumed.... 🙄 Funny for a 'board member' to so far distance themselves from their supposed role in organizational governance. Of course, the lack of any actual role in governance is an easy explanation there.

What a poor choice in optics, that was. Gosh, imagine if the people perceived as involved in and around the project direction had questionable histories in previous metaverse projects. Or questionable ties to the alt-right. Really, in retrospect that Patreon reward was ill-conceived regardless of how people ultimately ended up joining it.

Why can't weeeeee be friiiends, why can'y weee be friiiends?

May I request Kumbaya next? :3

Next world project with working guitar? That'll work

I used koinly for my taxes. Yes it has a paid fee for the full details that need to be put in, but since my crypto tax gains and losses amounted to over $10k, which requires extra details for the ATO, I just decided to pay it and it helped a lot.

Of course I also triple checked my history on etherscan as well and through the exchanges I used, but it helped me figure out which transactions count as taxable events.

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Welcome!

❤️

Would be equally interested in this.

you're white

I wasn't specifically referring to furry as a protected class in this instance. However, diversity is more than putting people into little "diversity boxes".

you're white

I dont see how that's relevant

It's relevant when you have certain people constantly going to others, trying to gaslight them with things like "When all 15 of the team members reject and want someone gone, doesn't that stand out to you?" when in reality it's 15 close friends (and sometimes lovers) and just like how a mundane breakup can cause someone to lose a whole category of their friends, you all want us to pretend like that the same type of behavior isn't at play here.

Hmm, as a member of several diversity communities and an ally for several others. I try my best. If you feel i've made an error that's ok. Thank you.

I apologize

That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to trans, LGBTQIA+ and the disability community.

🍿🤭

is furry a minority?

I feel that diversity in specific sections of the Neos team is lacking. I brought up the lack of women in the mod team previously, though I do understand that VR generally reflects this I think it's an area we can improve.

I agree with our gaps in the team, that's another issue. We're always looking to improve it across the board.

didn't they try to hire a woman and we see how that went?

This wasn't my intention. I apologize.

Using a shield of diversity talk to defend being a furry... when really all that's being said is "members of this fandom are scartching each other's backs abit much"

It should always be the best person for the job. Forcing diversity isn't always the best idea.

It's currently being used as an anti-queer dogwhistle because we live in the weirdest universe where 'furries in schools' became a political talking point. I wouldn't say furries are a protected class in and of themselves and I hate to enable equivocation but I do feel there is some nuance here.

They were a great hire imo.

oh good... needed politics in this channel... I'm grabbing a drink and chips

I'm sure, it was a general comment on hiring practices.

No offence to the person the comment was about.

in a chat without moderation? I wish... but that's asking for too much.

thanks, for saying that. Like, we have a bad history in this front where people felt the need to chime in on this particular ugly instance in the past without having the moral fiber to admit they were choosing the worst time to stick up for really gross behavior...

Probably not. Punching down sort of humor is just really not my bag so I can't get in the headspace to see that stuff as anything other than mean spirited.

"furry" is not an immutable characteristic

I wonder how many here are acting the way they do to try to ingratiate themselves with the devs in hopes of getting hired someday

I am going to be suspicious of the motives of mean-spirited takes/humor directed at a predominately queer subculture. While there is room for just cringing at the cringelords, cringe is subjective, and the demographics put that subjectivity across a dangerous set of protected classes, as that's the distinction being drawn.

ok bye

I'm more suspicious of overly measured, kind acting people who clearly have motives

fat chance. I don't want to be onboard with the team, not due to disagreement, but because I've done the show once.
There's your 5 minutes for today.

Ok... I'm just gonna leave this group...

sadly it's been this way for awhile. If you prefer more moderated stuff, that'd be the discord

you're so full of shit

This whole fuss started because you all wanted to dogpile tizzers is really what it is

and there was some valid criticism and instead we started pretending like there wasn't

Id rather deal with toxic individuals than a broad toxic clique that pretends like it's measured.

the problem is none of you have been on the other side of that at the Discord, so you don't know how it is.

9__9

Dude you know that they're all queer right

You know that's a *protected class right

Wtf do you think she signals when she says they're all lovers and part of particular groups

Do you know what a dog whistle is

Obv not

Uh the people who bought it? Plenty of people who still hold it? Non-english speaking Neos community members who bought into it and have no idea that the community is psycho and wants them financially harmed for their own glee?

Maybe people who actually care about Neos and got stabbed in the back

You don't have a point. Just stop.

I mean, there was a really good concerted effort to run those people out of the community

Like I have to give a round of applause beause you larvely succeeded in that

You can't seriously believe that

I mean, I'm mostly here to represent the interests of those who are still being stabbed in teh back over NCR.

Dude lmfao

jesus

lmfao

You have no idea who I know and don't know and for how long

no one cares

You literally just said you've been around them

Dumb

No, I said she pointed out people have been intimate because she's dog whistling like she has been for years

Because they're all queer.

When have I sad Karel is a perfect angel? Sorry I don't join in on the cult in bashing someone. I think you have enough dullards doing that don't you?

Maybe it's because the discussions are not ever really genuine? So it's impossible to have a discussion with nuance regarding Karel

As opposed to the discord? because goodluck talking about Karel over there

if you say anything even slightly neutral you will introduce 2 mentors, a mod, and 3 patreon supporters/1k hour playtime users chiming in "but what about"

Yep.

I sometimes talk about that stuff, but it usually gets immediately shut down

I was one of the first people complaining about the coin burn. If the devs in discord acted like they even halfway cared about the people who were buying NCR though, I'd probably be with them hating Karel.

i dont think the team has empathy enough to deal with community management

But instead, for whatever malicious reason, Froox dragged NCR holders into the middle for no reason whatsoever

I still think Reactant was the guy for that

I just feel like the team could do a lot more drastic things to keep the platform alive sometimes...

Tbh I check in from time to time and from any investors point of view its embarrassing like bickering children constant back and forth at this point I've wrote off my 9k not alot of money but enough to be like wtf is goig on here lol which is fine I took a chance on something I though was/could be/is gonna change the meta game but Jesus man this is the main tg group you are sent to from the website do yous seriously think that looks good take it off chat or make one called neos for fighting and go toe to toe in there.
Anyway ill leave it at that thought I'd put my 2cents good luck everybody ✌

Even if you are not an investor, coming in here and seeing all this as a user... More or less the same thing.

That being said, sorry to hear that the investment you had made did not go well. It's never a fun time when that happens regardless

Mate I'm not too fussed about my investment lost more and made more lol its the constant fighting

Always the same shit over and over and over again

is ur pfp an nft

you're not really sorry

I feel for the folk that actually play the game aswell I never got the chance ti try it out but it did look sick and could of took off.
But like I said just fuckin hell man the fighting is maddening lol

What does that mean if it is lol

Aww riteo lol I thought u were about to dig me for having an nft 😂😂😂

Anyway guys and gals thats me said my piece as I said good luck to everyone and hopefully this shitshow gets sorted at somepoint 💪🙌✌

I don't think they should be timed out, I don't believe they're trolling either. But I beleive they are too emotionally charged with their arguments, which leads to impatience.

that behavior is the norm there

I see it a lot in the conversations around crypto and the team situation. Where a lot of people are just too emotional to see it from any other perspective

Although to not be a hypocrite, I too have been a little emotionally charged in some conversations.

Which I regret sometimes.

The frustrating part about these sorts of discussions are just the like... I can agree or disagree with the suggestion of a marketing push. I can agree or disagree with NCR being sidelined. I can agree or disagree with the handling of the NCR burn, of how the strike (I am using this word, deal with my descriptivist ass) has been conducted, the impacts of announcements, the handling of onboarding, the new user experience. Like, these are valid and important conversations.

But I've got to navigate that with people running apologetics for Karel. And I honestly believe he has done indefensible things to the point I could not in good faith argue to go forward with him. I really wish the other conversations were not so dependent on him.

Like, 100% the only reason I don't argue for keeping NCR in the client out of respect for the people who invested in the platform is because I don't think Karel can be booted without booting NCR. Otherwise, yeah. I agree, removing NCR is doing folks dirty. I may disagree with the implementation, but as Orc has said we could change implementation details. But it's a bundle of politics, and watching friends break down, and trying to weigh that visceral emotional data with a desire to be fair to the whole community.

It's hard. Harder when I see 'the other side' (quoted for untruth) be personally insulting to people I respect and care for. Blarg. In any case, as much as I might disagree, or feel ideologically motivated/blinded, I still just want to help build better spaces for people. I hope I don't contribute too much to y'all's stress with my text walls.

Why can they not keep NCR even with Karel gone?

Not looking to argue, just wondering why you think that

and well that's the other thing... When I read the issues, it seems like things people could put behind themselves, but then again we only have partial details

The short of it is, I believe the abuse claims, but not for the hyperbolic claims of slavery or anything. Just the same quet toxicity that I've seen happen to too many friends and am admittedly hypersensitive to.

my take? Since there is the buyback program... just do a larger one to buy back if things did close down. Offer a long period of time on return, at a reasoanble rate, or offer to still allow imports into Neos itself with the exchange going to storage space, as we have it now. This way, people can at least get a return, and if they did buy for use internally with already functioning systems, they can do so before the plug is fully pulled.

This is probably why many align with Karel. It's that they have a bunch of hostile voices chiming in with really ill-conceived suggestions about what should be their fate... without actually listening to what those people want.

And for this one... I'm a bit skeptical, but I think I can see it in a light that makes more sense with the same narrative, based on experiences friends of mine have had. I won't go into them, but I'm not defending against what had happened, since I wasn't there and I don't know the involving parties enough to make individual judgement calls

Actually worse than not listening to those people. Treating them with contempt. Meanwhile the cofounder has a clear message of defending those people. And TBH I never really see people defending him as much as I see people saying across the pond

They need something to give Karel. NCR seems their best bet. I'd genuinely prefer they kept it and brought on someone to manage it as a currency. I honestly like the in game ledger with the option to offramp to a independant wallet. Would allow some limited buyer protections in game.

The problem is... there really isn't a happy medium solution to all.
Right now, as it stands, the current 'party' wants NCR gone, which means a full cut off and no grace offered at all. The other 'party' wishes to push more into something that the other party has voiced concerns over preventing new user engagement and due to dislike of the systems as a whole (and considering the current events, we're seeing a lot of that being demonstrated), thus turning the platform into something they feel is against the spirit of the platform's initial roots.

Because they are malicious. They've spent months on Twitter getting emotionally invested in hating cryptobros and nfts and stuff and now they have an oppertunity to hurt those people and they really want to see it followed through

Like, pretending anything else is going on is kind of lying to ourselves.

I asked because it seemed like the devs were completely ignorant to the fact they could fork the chain and take control of their own NCR and protect those people. The original reason to remove NCR was because "Karel has the keys"

I used to just hold a neutral opinion, given I had received personal assistance when something had gone wrong and after having talked about previous ventures we had both knew about and had involvement with. However, it's become increasingly difficult to defend given the circumstances and actions taken (or lack there of). As a person to talk to, I feel they were alright, and I have no evidence to me personally where this isn't true. But I cannot claim the same in other forms, and that does sway my opinion and outlook

Anger spreads easier. I'm not immune to that either.

They'd need to bring on someone who understands and has an interest in working in that space if they went forward with NCR. I don't think any of the team are super interested in cryptocurrencies. I know they are interested in decentralized systems, but you're not wrong in that a lot of the people around them are soured to cryptocurrencies and nfts.

From your perspective, I suppose this is a tossing the baby out with the bathwater scenario. I always wanted a re-work of NCR and was never enamored with it. But it was going to enable an open market, bypassed payment processor censorship (looking at you paypal) and so I was willing to work with it.

But now it just feels like a lot of frustrating baggage and it's not even doing anything but sitting there. The most I've done with it is give out storage to new users who already managed to blow through the initial 1gb. It's hard to even grudgingly accept it, except as a fairness hedge.

I think an honestly fair solution would be to let a crypto team take over NCR running as is and let them focus on making NCR a slick transaction experience. Transparent fiat exchange, let people engage as much or as little with independant wallets as they want. Just get the product to the point it could support one click purchases from a credit card/paypall acount or existing NCR ballence. Take all that off the team's plate while they develop the core product.

This community really likes to actively create a scenario and then point to its outcome as if it was predetermined

this is something children do.

and no, I'm against the whole third party mod thing. That's a joke. I mean, it would be a joke if it wasn't you trying to convince those affected to noose themselves

Maybe I believe in like, I dunno, helping those who put their money into it? I guess that's a weird stance to take to you? Maybe you have to be brainwashed by an angry community to see that as the wrong stance to take

Yeah, that's my exact dilemma atm. Haven't got a clue what to put, but I'm willing to pay them too for that

I don't know if the plugin thing is viable. The way it was initially explained to me was that they would basically be publishing a payment processor API and letting NCR be one of those options. I figured that would be viable given NCR has an established install base on the platform. But on further explanation i am of the opinion that the plugin route does too much to segment the playbase. I'd still supoort third party NCR, e.g. NCR acts as the payment processor for Neos and has a contract guaranteeing that relationship with certain deliverables as riders (aforementioned fiat transparency would be a big one IMO.)

Stop pushing the third party/API narrative as if it was anything but a convenient way to shunt off all NCR users while maintaining some illusion of moral defensibility. No one buys it except the discord dick riders.

Also @ProbablePrime your whole cheese thing is cringe and stupid af

You're welcome for the feedback

thanks, ill go eat some more now

Cheese is apparently White, but white cheese is Hispanic.

the focus on the cheese instead of the gameplay topic is very characteristic of this room

@Lexevo When doing taxes, did you factor in patreon costs?

whoops, completely forgot about that. No I didn't. I've already got my tax return, so we'll see if anything happens in the future. If so, it'll be miniscule anyways.

mine's a difference of receiving ~$43 or paying almost $2K

not only that, the releveant patreon payments, I switched to a different tier every 2-4 months

anyone know the NCR rewards for:
The Curator (Jan 2021-Feb 2021)
Virtual Canid (Mar 2021-Jun 2021)
Architect (Jul 2021-Oct 2021)
Clifford (Nov 2021-Feb-2022)

Black magic maths time. I have a few screenshots here and there of my dash with my NCR balance visible, maybe I can use fancy algebra. I know the total must be 5NCR less than what I transferred to my account because I won a bet

Finally spending time making a world, it's kind of hard to do cuz I'm modeling it from scratch but tbh I'm glad with how its turning out so far

I've been busy preparing avatars in already prepared state so people can get going far faster

Are you doing the modelling in Blender?

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Welcome Lester! Cool name 😎

Thanks :) I've checkout out Neos ~1 year ago, as a cooler VRChat alternative, I had no idea it went through an ICO and then all that drama

How much did they raise in the end?

They were supposed to expand the team is that correct?

3m was the original goal

Oh yeah that makes sense

What's the current status of the project? Both founders want to make a version of Neos?

How large is the current team?

(thanks for the answers BTW :) )

Feels like it

FTE?

🥱🍿

Karel's letter said he was looking to switch to having a real team, did none of that materialize?

So CTO wants to keep in the "no blockchain" vibe (like VRChat)?

What? Why would he not pay? Is he out of funds?

why not?

lol what?

More or less this. just when we are given an opportunity to actually get more users onboard and move forward, current events prevent from fully capitalizing on the situation

they did

He didn't.

they did.

ahah thanks for the answers

Same on mobile

I'd love to get involved in building but it looks like right now might not be the best time ^^

Don’t spread misinformation. Neos still has at least $3M (publicly verifiable on ethereum) and I probably a lot more since quite a bit was cashed out in the past

It's debatable. If you were wanting on a feature from an update, then yeah, maybe not yet, to be honest. If it's due to concerns with attendance, that has greatly changed.

I estimate they have ~$5M including money from patreon

Uh... Whatever math you are doing, remind me to avoid it.

?

Ok you’re just stupid. At least it’s not malicious

Odd question, does that include the set aside amount for stored user balances?

Ah okay

then why don't they hire a proper team?

Karel probably will. The rest of the team have instigated a legal battle over IP.

why not?

And they are striking for still unclear reasons.

Imo they are very emotional and feel threatened by Karels vision of Neos

yeah and why doesn't he hire those?

They want it to stay small for their furry friends to do naughty stuff together

I mean you cannot go on a strike if you are not paid in the first place

>There was never proper foundational paperwork drafted including contractor agreements or intellectual property ownership. The original LTD agreement was a 50/50 split between the CEO and CTO meaning any irreconcilable feud would end in a deadlock.

>Frooxius brought in a group of volunteers who were all furry friends and have known each other for years across several platforms like Second Life and IRL fur conventions.

>After Meta made their announcement in October of last year, NCR benefitted from being at the intersection of blockchain and metaverse, causing it to run to $10 with a market cap close to 500 million USD. The volunteers pushed back at the crypto connection in an attempt to minimize Karel's involvement in the project even though a lot of them financially benefitted from it.

>Without proper foundational paperwork, the company (And Frooxius himself) cracked under pressure and the volunteers - spear-headed by Geenz somehow thought that they could successfully stage a coup against Karel over disagreements about his management style. Some of these were legitimate (For example pay - however much they claim otherwise) and others were a clear attempt at running the non-furry out of his own company.

>This didn’t work because a bunch of non-contracted volunteers trying to cancel somebody out of their own company Twitter style isn’t how the real world works.

So here we are 8-9 months later with a deadlocked platform, new users joining from VRC who aren’t remotely aware of how deeply broken this project and company is, and a bunch of burned investors.

Great summary tizzy

Oh wow, a post from tizzy and it doesn't have the word "cabal" in it

Who left?

How do you know they have largely left..?

That’s not how math works my guy. Obviously there will be an influx in concurrent users when they first all join in one go

50/50 splits are the worst ^^

They don’t all stay online 24/7 lmao

thanks for the summary Tizzy :)

From the outside it does looks like a 2-sided war with clear sides

Very much, unfortunately

it's CONSTANT bickering in here

the opposite of an echo chamber

Making 2 platforms with a hard fork of the code sounds like an obvious solution, is it not?

I was one of the more outspoken supporters of Neos last year and really believed in this project, enough that Karel invited me to be on the user board of advisors which gave me a front row seat to watching all of this happen. The furries are upset that I called them out and didn't take their side, so they're pulling out all of the typical character assassination tricks to try and invalidate my opinions.

You paid for it on Patreon.

Nope

That is incorrect.

I never had the $500 tier on Patreon. I was invited by Karel personally outside of Patreon.

dont shame the tf art bro 😡

My involvement in the fandom gives me a lot of insight as to how furries operate. If anything that just supports my claims.

Oh boy, here we go...

I'm old and have been in the fandom since the days of Usenet. I've seen it all including how furries weaponize social ostracization to the point of it being an artform.

it is observable behavior

one day im going to conduct a study and shove the results up your ass

u can be a furry and be critical of things that happen within the community

If you need any proof just look at the icons of the people pushing back at my observations in this chat right now. I think that speaks for itself.

So the CTO does not want a 2-platform solution, is that correct?

why not? You guys obviously don't want to be with each other

So each side (CEO/CTO) feels like they have brought more value to the platform (the money/the code), so they do not feel like splitting it would be fair, is that something you could say?

Unless he has a couple millions on wallets, but you don't know that

To be fair CEOs are routinely not very present (their role is being outside raising, selling etc)

yeah I mean this could be OK in a 51/49 split

the 50/50 is really the issue

I need to go but thanks for all the info!

But then they'd hear the sarcasm in my voice when I say furry cabal.

I hope they'll find a solution, Neos is super promising

Well to be fair, at least you can do that in the game and with others

The time i spend in an external editor, not even in vr or vrchat but some 3. party system..

speaking of, there is a pretty good new playermade system for big worlds that simplifies avatars by distance. Extremly nice. Granted, the 30 people world also had that 20 fps experience, but it was still pretty amazing because noone had an optimized char

its called "user culling system"

yea, but to be fair i tried it in two worlds and i could not get it to work, but i saw it in action and it was amazing

People came to the Telegram because it was literally impossible to have a good faith discussion in the discord. People were seriously accusing Karel of enslaving Froox; anyone remotely pro NCR was getting clown emojis on every single post for quite some time; mods locked threads and others opening threads about removing NCR; etc.

Many of us were in the discord for weeks before finally moving on to Telegram, then got chased by discord into the original Telegram channel where it became another furry echo chamber before finally ending up here.

incredible

One of the things i love neos for... the creativity you can have in that game

Out at a nice lunch. Cheers to your feast as well

enjoy y'all

I just made 11 bnb with @GemFinder100X I know its not insane but I 24x which is pretty wild to me. Could we get them to call our project?

xLinka and Tekno have worked out a really slick version of the avatar culling system that combines a customizable audio falloff. I need to grab that off them sometime.

Why don't you just leave this channel already and play in VRC then? Why keep trying to spark drama?

I'm actually doing it in a combination of Autodesk Inventor + Blender to clean up the model get rid of unneeded geometry, and clean up useless faces, as well aa material assigning and uv mapping!

Okay, that's cool

im so glad the violent and extreme Kulza is banned from this room ☺️

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this is true, but atleast it isnt spending 100 hours alone in unity config-ing your avatar xd