Feelings are hurt, but being grown ppl is to see past these feelings.

But i dont see a future with them working together. And because of this, this limbo will continue forever or until the split

But whole eu is a great start

Will never happen. If that would have been the case, would have happend in the last year limbo

Maybe give it some more time and good faith 😊

I cant stress enough that people are not perfect and professional life is sometimes not be easy to devide from private. sometimes thats how it just is if one of the people involved is hurt too much

One thing to be optimistic, another to be ignorant.

Split is very easy after things are open-source. Literally anyone can found a new company and develop their own thing.

If they will be open-source either way then why not to do it.

Exactly

I agree with the ones wanting Neos to move forward

My private opinion is that some stuff is not perfectly legal (codecs, plugins) and they dont want to give all that knowledge to big companies like Facebook

We are ignorant because for some reason we don't have the whole story

I have theories about the whole story

But hey, I don't know. Its how making my software open source would go most likely

Things that cannot be open sourced can be easily removed.

we do not want you theory. Silence

FinalIk is one example of a thing that needs to be removed before opensource

Maybe losing some functionality for the open build temporarily. No reason most users can’t continue to use the closed source version until feature parity.

Yep

There are often many things insight a program that should not be there. Its the sad truth of development

Open sourcing seems to be A SOLUTION worth being explored but yet I don't see it gets fully considered

But that said, i do understand that as a dev

Can't you both start with the closed source and you and your team work on it making it open source?

By cutting everything that doesn't comply?

The best solution not being considered has been problem for a while. I hope it will at some point.

So there has been zero progress towards a solution? That is all that I am getting from this. Zero progress. I expect another year to pass with zero progress too.

Then froox could work in his own pace making it public

Yep

That would be welcome. Having a time estimate would help a lot. We need to keep things going until then.

I feel like i should help but i cant... its really bothering me

You can help with adding features to neos+

But i want there to be a way forward

Hmm, fair. May try that tonight

Yes it just takes froox to want to update Neos for the community again

What license is your addon under MIT or GNU?

What the heck do you even do nowadays Karel? If development has stalled for Neos then what do you spend your time on?

Froox is the dev it's his responsibility to update and care for the community

He is not a dev

Karel is there for everything else...

Mostly on keeping thing working until we are open. Also small things like website update based on feedback we got. We’ll be releasing that hopefully this week.

A business is not magically runned, someone needs To take care of all that. Yet Karel seems to be the one doing it

Someone or a group of ppl obviously

Perhaps just open source GNU, then fork. One side could go Social Purpose corporation and tried to get big sponsors to try and compete long term against other big metaverse players. Then the other open source project could benefit from the codebase enhancements and not have to deal with the corporate atmosphere. Would that be a win-win?

you mean Neos+ ? its GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE 2.1 Modified

isn't GNU the 'sticky' license? or am I confusing it apache

Do you see it ever getting to a point where you just say "screw it" and just hire devs and start from scratch? It does not seem like the volunteer team plan to budge any time soon.

How about a middle way? Froox makes a bare bone version of everything that is not prioritary and excludes all functions that might be questionable to release open source? And make it open source as explicit non commercial

Neos+ is obviously a problematic name if things don’t go open but corpo but yes I meant that one. 😄
Thank you so much for choosing such a great license and for your awesome work to everyone who paricipates. Hope to see Neos go all in GNU sooner or later 👍

With giving a free license to you karel?

By giving a free license to every person on this planet

Actually also orbit

Yes, but non commercial

Yes I know what GNU is

Because its one of the things froox may not want. Giving it to Facebook

Right

Well then open sourcing under GNU is a great move that makes sure Facebook wont own it ever. Keeping it in a company that might go bankrupt and someone might buy it to sue him to get the code is a less viable strategy.

True. Well i just really hope that will happen. Or optional you two starting with the copy of the current prioritary and you going open source from it

Two strategies, two futures maybe?

I wouldn’t mind that step if it helps. Not sure what the upside is but why not.

Open source means if Facebook implents it Facebook can not sue other games for having the code

Meaning everyone can use it

It would not require froox to go open source with something he feels is not ready for it. If true or not, you do pressure a timeline

And then it's just a question who makes a better version

So that would be a way?

Would you be able to enforce any kind of symbiosis between multiple variations of Neos in open source? Doesn't Neos+ sessions not allow regular Neos players not to join? It seems like it would create issues if people had to keep adding plugins or switch versions to play with one group of friends or another

Yeah

Plugins allow only joining the ones with the same plugin version

or would all opensource contributions be merged to main

I think it would work for a long time

It still uses the same cloud services tho

https://wiki.neos.com/Plugins has all the info on plugins

well this is for security and the fact that if someone with a plugin joined people without it and spawned a component the field type wont exist in their client leading to a crash from world

Plugin system of neos is pretty solid

just under used

GNU license doesnt say anything about Facebook specifically. Anyone would be free to use it and as the move would have both directors signed would not be able to be questioned.

But we need a Neos+ launcher tho that updates Neos+ and such

Yea true, but i mean, both versions of the main neos version would work fine for a long time with neos+

It's important for mass adoption

If intended

Imo it should be

At some point, can we expect Froox To speak for himself and be a part of this constructive conversation ? I Would love To hear from him

He's not here

This is kind of "karels channel" in a way

We're under instructions to not really say much. I shouldn't really be even saying as much as I do. I'm in contact with Froox though and reminding him to get rest and hydrate

😬

That's not allowed lol. Access to frooxious must be guarded at all costs.

You make it seem there is a court case going on lol

I tried ! ><

Proffesinals talk it out you know

There is legal

It sort of is, without court or legal decissions

It was said there was no court case but the keeping silent about it seems sus

So just the long legal waiting times

There is no court case going as far as I know.

(i was making a joke)

Exactly so there is no need to keep silent

Great. So there it is. No progress confirmed.

That's incorrect

This is pure theater. Just making sure it’s clear.

We don't need courts to make progress Robin

Infact most civil cases are resolved before they even get there.

You don't make progress pireod.

Man my biggest thing with all this is massive divides being created within Neos. Like how Neos users cant play with Neos+ users. It creates more barriers of entry. Suddenly you have non cross compatible sub groups within Neos.

So why is there a need to keep silent

Unless it's just trying to ignore the issues

It seems that way to outsiders

Its just a good practice and common recommendations from legal representation.

Plugins are good for development and catering Neos to what you want but it causes those issues

No legal case but yet nothing mooves. Eventually it will get there..

But you do need to talk with each other, please. I love and understand Froox and also all the losses of confidence in each other ( and trust). But we all wait for the day this gets finally solved.

No mather how

So about a year later no legal case and still silence 🤔😬

🐮

We dont get to hear froox side unfortunately

You do

Its in the announcements channel and on his twitter. I also stand by Froox so you hear it through me too.

You are not Froox

Yeah i mean in here

Hmmm.. a post every 6 months is light

Probable is here, helping with that and this is Karels channel, not frooxes

Thank you for that observation.

What I mean is, If froox was typing. They'd pretty much just repeat what's in their announcements.

This is official Neos channel managed by its legal management.

So bad treatment is the reason but right now there is no bad treatment

Which company though Karel?

Discord has been hijacked by volunteers.

Solirax LTD

That's incorrect, the volunteers are under the full authority of Froox

So basically it won't change till people get over the bad treatment and move on

I dont think people who were part of the admin team on discord can hijack something they already had control of.

And under Froox we have Veer who was put in that position by Froox, Veer with his team means the volunteers follow rules we have in place. So its not been hijacked at all.

Its about both

This is mostly Neos Credits and occasionally, Karel decided to post stuff, let's chat about it or some cool Neos content.

Yes, well,... i mean you are not wrong, but you know what i mean. You are Solirax LTD mostly at the moment in terms of frontend content delivery

In the announcement it says its about bad treatment

Can the announcements be trusted ?

Yes

I was treated badly at my last job and I quit so why isn't it being moved on and continue development?

Well, you see, its 2 groups. Every group has its own announcements and they do mean it

There is no reason visible not to move on

Legalities, which strangely are also somewhat not visible.

You are probably small worker. Not co owner of company

Ah alright

Neos is such a thoroughly sunk ship. Karel do you even have an endgame in mind? Or are you just blindly holding onto a sunk cost fallacy? I would have abandoned ship long ago and worked on something else.

Its different if you own part of the company (half?) and the software is your brain child

Yeah it's a conundrum that can't be resolved

Thank you Probable for being here so we have at least some mens of constructive communication. Looking forward to at least some reaction on how things could go forward, a approximate timeline in an optimal case.

^

Then I don't understand why we can't see the same will to find a solution from both sides

After about a year we want solution

ProbablePrime is one of the best things that happened to neos. Seriously. His tutorials are the lifeblood of neos

Like thrill seeker said in his video what's it gonna be option 4?

Is there no talk through legal?

There is, Lawyers are slow, Lawyer's Clients are also sometimes slow.

There needs to be clarity in if people can still expect to work in Neos and use it in the future too

WHEN ncr staking sir,still on the table?

they hate money?

Nah lawyers take a lot of time especially with shortage so that makes sense

Why is legal even needed. In the end both own half of the code and there is just the brand left

Cant you both not decide on the brand and make a copy of the code each? Simplified?

I think most talk go through lawyer. Why public info now with no plan

The community needs clarification at least

Yep

Legal will lead to a 50/50 anyway

These update have none

I dunno, I was sipping tea than Karel started posting.

I dunno, money buys cheese and cheese is good

Worst case scenario tbh is people relying on a plugin for feature updates like Neos+ so atleast that gives some clarity to a potential outcome

No, worst case outcome is a standstill

Thrill should have mentioned neos+ as a outcome

Like what we have since a year

Every outcome is better

Yeah but keep in mind Neos can still be used seperately

I have heard nothing constructive from the other party lawyer. Anything that can be achieved there is an expensive stalemate. It would be better to focus on actual solutions.

Hopefully it is not an outcome but a temporary for people to have something new until this is figured out.

I dont have the right to ask, but since you CAN technically tell us. What was talked about? The wish of the other party lawyer?

Yah let's hear about that.

Like we download Neos from the website and then the website already comes with a custom Neos launcher then we simply get a Neos+ launcher like that and use that and the launcher would automatically install the latest open source Neos+ update

It's already standalone

Yes it’s about the company signing over all rights for the code over to Frooxius personally.

Ahh, but Froox already owns them.

Ah so that's basically what they are waiting for

Does not seem like your own lawyer agrees with that.

I see then problem solved 😅

Solirax owns them ?

Well, as expected. So as you hold 50%, is the code part of the company?

id love to see the contract where he signed over the rights for the code. if it ever existed.

Nope

So why sign over?

So we get updates again once froox got the full rights?

If he has all code legal rights, why legal?

There appears to be miscommunication

I mean, there a) owned by company or b) by froox

A) Karel will not freely give it, as its part of what he owns B) what?

Where is c)

They wrote the code

Wait what???

Will not sign that, I want for Neos to go open-source

The what? Has no place here, true or not.

Is that true

Yes there were serious problems with Nex management of any company could not ignore. Thats how it started.

Are the allegations true tho

I treat allegations of this nature with intense seriousness and call upon our moderator @NonnyFreedom to do something about this message. How dare you accuse me of that, with 0 evidence or meaning.

Which was not great because he was owner of the Discord.

Server

Can we please have mods moderate that? If true thats police and law

I also didn't do this. Erin did sure, but whatever.

Ah i see baseless speculation

Last I checked Froox was the owner of the discord.

Can someone please moderate this channel? We had a constructive discussion.

I want to know more detail your prospect about ncr.

I didn't do anything, If Erin did that's his prerogative in his own world.

I havent heard Probable or Geenz directly speak on behalf of Nex but they have joined the opposition against me and any effort of management.

It is not professional to comment on matters that I have no knowledge of. I'm not opposed to management either. I'm opposed to behaviour.

What just happened here? Can we go back reducing out this alligation against people that are not here or relevant for the legal position of neos?

This is about code ownership, not random mods

what is pedo shit?

I agree, well not entirely as its not entirely about code ownership.

Code and Brand

What else is there?

It's nice to note that in response to fairly pleasant discourse the "baseless accusation" card needed to be played... Yay. https://www.logicalfallacies.org/ad-hominem.html

We know, but please probable you too. Giving air to people trying to break constructive discussions just makes it worse.

Understood, I do have to refute claims against my person though.

True, sorry

In any case, about code

You’re not the only one here Probable, people can actually discuss here things freely. I appreciate you being here but you don’t own this chat as you do Discord.

And brand

Troll is ban evader

I don't claim to own it, I do however claim that it needs policing when messages break the rules your staff member outlined and hired a moderator for. This was my only problem here Karel. And i dont' own the discord, 5 minutes ago you said Nex did? That's still wrong, its Froox. They own it.

Still Karel, such attacks are obviously not fruitful. Even if they would be 100% true, that just means the police can solve that.

Nah i didn't mean that to you but the other person

It just send that message under yours

In any case. Code and brand

I was speaking in generic terms Alex, you're good. Although maybe mention Neos+ a little less. Its really cool but we don't need to go in circles talking about it sometimes.

Who owns what? Does anyone even know?

What happen to fund generated

Karel please

still waiting on proof, since like this is just a baseless claim you keep repeating.

Bruh you keep saying this without proof

You said I shouldn’t comment on things you dont have any knowledge of. I can comment on anything I like. Your allowance is really not necessary.

I can't even understand this, so I'll just ignore it. While I'm friends with Erin, I had nothing to do with that situation. Please move on. (https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Telegram#1._General_chat_rules)

Zigmund

I was speaking in generics Karel. Thank you

So lets say froox owns all the code. Then it would only be a legal question of shutting down the servers you control Karel. Brand is 50/50

Lets say the company does.

So it would need to be sold or copied

The person with a pacifier sucking profile picture is really quick to try to shut THAT conversation down.

Love the true or not part.

I dont comment on that, as its obviously my avatar. You are just bad informed.

Is it true ?

So who owns what now? Sorry

If it's true then there needs to be proof first

Back to the constructive talk.. We need timelines to keep things afloat

I have absolutely no idea Leorio, i hope the police would solve that, not this chat

Don't fall for it ;)

For the benefit of everyone, here's Andrea introducing the rules here: https://t.me/c/1314262393/33130

they are shutting down allegations with no proof.

So the discussion gets killed by a troll, great

where are you getting this sexual behavior comment from

Sexual behavior ?

Behaviot

That's way different from the accusations you made earlier

Lol it takes so little for you to feed the trolls

Ask around with some of the older members. Maybe some of the ones that left the platform before the NCR boom due to multiple issues, including this one.

Because there is obviously no mod... can you at least give any prove what-so-ever or shut up?

Who care please shut

Great talking with you. Probable and Karel gone. Good work

Eork

I'm here, I live inside your eyes :3

Ha

Constructive talk or not, nothing is meant to moove untill we get clarifications from both sides

Do we even have mods in this channel?

We do we have Nonny, they're cool.

Untill next time then 😅

They do their job well, when they are awake. They improved this place a lot just by being here.

They even have a catch phrase when they do it. It's awesome.

Crap. Well, Karel was constructive. Sucks that it got killed off

hmm? Saw some changes

Mean the discussion

There needs to be mods from eu time

Well, some people do, its not their fault

Nonny is based in Thailand I think, so that's actually a pretty good timezone for coverage Alex,

Rugero you won already. He is gone, thanks

Great job, trollmaster

Want flowers too?

We will get some more occasions. At least the hostility towards Karel has soften.

It will allows more talks

Karel isnt a bad person, just obviously wants different things to froox

They have to find a way to continue on, both

Just to add my own opinion, I don't like Neos+ not because I don't like the features or such, but just because I hate the concept of plugins in general.

The problem is that unlike mods, plugins fracture the userbase, and to split up the neos community for some small feature additions means any new players Arnt gonna know to download it, and I have to convince friends to use it to hang out with me.

Because of that, I won't use any plugin that isn't client side (IE: a NML Mod) because I don't want to break compatibly with existing neos players. People shouldn't have to download a plugin just to join my session because I wanted a random feature none of them care about

With the whole open source thing I feel similarly that I don't want the entire player base to be fractured over multiple forks.

I mean if plugins would be auto download on join

May be awesome

Creativity wise

The game already has a small playerbase, and breaking it up like that makes it even smaller.

I love the idea of open source but I hate the idea of two competing major forks

Sounds like a massive security issue

I am not talking about good or bad ppl but just until recently when karel spoke a word he was met with hostility. That wasn't the best thing to carry on a conversation. Things are moving. I hope the community will get the clarifications it deserves

It is obviously, but done in many games

Think rimworld

that is a security nightmare.

Or any games that auto downloads from workshops

Yes, also highly flexible

There are ways to mitigate some security thingies, but if we were to do it that way it would be opt-in and at the user's risk. Which of course would turn most people away, but its the only real way to doit.

Many games ask if they should download mods if you connect to a server. Including dll's. Its not new

Yeah but neos is in a large part techy users. We are the kind of dickheads who love to abuse stuff like that for fun. Like Cmon, every time some security issue is found in neos people make meme items with it, there will 100% be people who's games make you download a plugin that changes all the text on your UI to UwU speak or some crap disguising it as neos+ or so

And that's not to mention the people who would use it maliciously

thats where sha256 hashes would have to be used for verification

Yes but can be mittigated by building on workshop side and only activates in worlds that require this plugin

how? Literally nobody checks those, and having the game do it means we have to maintain a list of trusted plugins, and how does a mod get on that list in the first place? What if the user accepts the malicious one as trusted first?

Agreed, I'm just concerned at how much plugins can change for one to just download as soon as I'm in a world and press OK on joining

Hell, I don't update my NML mods unless it's for major security fixes because I barely even trust those to not get updated to be unsafe briefly. It's happened before with other games I've played where a mod creator gets pissed and updates their mod to be malicious when it wasn't before

Yes, and i know its not risk free, but it is so incredible powerful. I mean people download plugins every day, even for vrchat that bans you for it

People download mods because they don't break compatibility. Very rarely did I ever see anyone using a full plugin

Nah a launcher that says update available and then you can click install or not is something better

Aside from particle workshop

I'd like to see patching in plugins tho for fixing up some existing things

I disagree, refer to my original point about plugins shattering the community by not showing in the session listings for people with different version strings.

The problem is either everyone uses neos+ and now every new user doesn't know about it and thinks the game is dead or we get some partial adoption and now half of neos doesn't care about it and we essentially have two smaller neos communities who never see eachother

Obviously Neos+ wont do patching but maybe something else

RimWorld goes the middle road. Checked by workshop, gives you a list of required mods that you dont have on join and you can click on every single one and download

This is probably where I would like to see it, a list of plugins the session is running and GitHub links to go download them myself

Or you advertise Neos+ a lot and people download Neos with that like the website Neos launcher

??

WhatM

Yes pretty much. But all our dreams are dreams until we have a go ahead

russian bot

Lol you said swearwords

And again no mod

Right but a lot of people don't give any care about the features of neos plus and don't want to use it, so it leads to point #2 where it breaks up the playerbase

It already is braken up tho

It broken between people not playing anymore and people that still do

But at least all the people who still play can see eachothers sessions

Actually this is valid.

Not exactly most are in friends+

A fix to this, even without automatic plugin downloading is to just, give me a tab on the session list that says "incompatible version strings"

26 people in public worlds says it all

Let me SEE the neos+ sessions without using neos+ and vice versa

You can see them just not join

same with universes

I thought it didn't show wrong version strings?

Yea, neos can do that by design

Like the friends list

Nah it does

Ah then ignore me I'm stupid

I still don't like it fracturing sessions but that's definitely better than what I was thinking

So the worlds are all there with a pink outline around it

Those would be the incompatible ones

Sorry, I've been really busy with life and havnt been able to play neos much. And obviously this is the first time a plugin has gotten large adoption lol

Yeah it's quite cool

I reccomend using Neos+

I still don't like it breaking up players with something they need to download from a third party but that's better than full separation

I don't

I also have a headless running Neos+

You can identify Neos+ worlds by the Neos+ in the name

to be honest my content is going to break if i use neosplus features

That's also the thing

Eventually you gotta choose a side

While I think Neos+ is cool, I just don't have have a need for the additional features.

My side is that I'd like to use a version of the game that someone who just downloaded the game can join me with.

If Neos+ comes with a launcher then give them that one

neosplus is cool yes but i prefer to not use it

Not without restarting the game

Which doesn't count

That's two games

....couldn't Neos+ just add an option to disable its additional features if the session type is NOT neos+?

That's the sacrefice needing to be made

That would be great but I'm not sure it's possible

And it's not a worthwhile sacrifice in my opinion

Yeah they were thinking of that but issue is requires patching and that ain't gonna be in Neos+

To do this the plugin system of neos would need to change i guess. Like loading mods by world requirements

ah, like library/dependency patching?

NorthStar for titanfall only gets away with it because regular titanfall's multiplayer is unplayable with hacking and DDOS

Yeah

Also very complicated with multi world joins

This would require Neos to be updated 🤣

As you are in 10 different worlds with 10 different mods at once

Neos+ breaks me away from all of the new players and old players who just don't care about it, and for that reason I cannot use it because it brings me further away from the parts of neos I care about, in exchange for minor features I don't want or need, and with no guarantee those features won't break in the future.

Would be a fever dream for devs

Also a plus is no moderator can join your world when using Neos+ 🤣

So that's a plus

It's the same reason I don't use DMX's All Shaders Valid mod for custom shaders. Nobody else without the mod can see it

That's absolutely idiotic

Ah yes funny thing about shaders the code to display those got removed from the asset variant system so custom shaders can't be loaded anymore even with the mod

Lol

But let's not talk about that

And see that's a good example of why I don't like stuff like that

Neos+ when easily Accessible is good for new users too

It breaks the community up by making you need it to use or see something, and then potentially stops working down the line leading to many broken creations

Yep

That's a risk that always exists

I don't think it is. What's good for new users is for the game to get updates again, officially.

can we not promote the plugin i made. as a replacement for updates it is not this.

Thank you. I wish alex would stop promoting that mindset

I simply like more people to play Neos when promised new features

It will break in the future too

im constantly doing updates every Tuesday if something breaks make a issue we fix it.

I agree, but I don't think a plugin is the way I personally want to go, as it means I have to convince everyone to download it to play with me, which I already have a hard enough tune getting people into neos in general, and then concerns about breaking with future updates as well as meaning people who don't know me won't know to use it and I'll miss out on all the new users

It will break with future updates but Xlinka will fix it really quickly

I have this mindset with expectation ofc that Neos wont get updates since yeah that would break it

Oh i'm just referring to the pieces of unity such as the cloth sim

I am big in favor of a plugin workshop and ingame management of plugins and plugin requirements

oh thats allready being planned to replace with another more universal system without using connector jank

bepu cloth system was looked into but its not performant at all

Nice 🤩

Neos+ would profit greatly from that too

Ah i see

I am a big fan of my favourite social platform coming back from the hell that is this gridlock one day...

:(

Yeah... me too.

That i think is something Neos+ can do

And that's where I disagree

Like i see it basically as the solution

I don't think you should, and I don't think @LinkaIndustries does either

i don't think it's the solution either, but is is pretty cool

Oh yeah btw when is the new buyable avatar coming out you were working on 😮

It is not a solution to the game not getting updates recently. It is a third party content addition that requires breaking compatibility with existing players. If you like what it offers it's cool and by all means use it but for many of us all it does is make it harder to hang out with people because we don't want to download a plugin we don't need or want the features from

🍿🤭

Nah it gives people a alternative if they already wanted to quit Neos because not updated

So they still play

I agree with that. Neos+ would need a better plugin integration by neos to be less intrusive. Its not Neos+ fault. Also doesnt replace development on neos side

You just say hey don't quit there is Neos+ with weekly updates and they play that

I think me and flox see pretty eye to eye on this

What neos+ can do is adding ideas from player side that might be taken in the main code of neos one day

This doesn't change that in my opinion it splits up the playerbase. If people who are going to quit start using it, people who arnt going to quit use it to play with them, and then suddenly I can't join 1/3rd of the sessions In neos because a few popular users have been convincing everyone to use some plugin I don't want

Thinks that may have never be considered

Again people are free to use it and they can and it's very cool, I just personally don't like it, and don't think it's a replacement for updates because many users will be like me and won't care about the features it provides and don't want to download a plugin off github and put it in their game folder and break version compatibility with their friends

Or alternatively you can't join any world because nobody is in a public world

For someone to adopt the use of N+ they have to convince all of their friends to use it too

That's a hard sell.

Rather have people Use Neos+ than not play at all

Think iPhone. Why did it take 3 generations to implement a light function for the cam light? Because the hardware cant be directly accessed. A closed system A thing on every other phone was patched in as app a day after release

At least, it's a hard sell when all of your friends are security researchers and hobbyist programmers and are extremely conscious about using random plugins they don't absolutely need

And a lot of the neos playerbase fall into that group of techy people who care about their security

People arnt going to want to go verify the source code of a plugin they don't care about just to join me

Neos is an open system and can profit from player additions as such. But it does need a better implementation and is just one side of it

I guess that's why people are always in private world

I agree

I only play neos with friends and sometimes join random worlds but most of the time there is no random worlds to join so just wait till friends are on

People are in private worlds because we just want to chill with eachother. I like to hop around public worlds and I think what you're forgetting is it's always been like this. Not quite as much but the private session percentage has ALWAYS been over half, and usually over 70%

Workshop and Plugin requirements for worlds are a must have first

26 people in public worlds 200 in private

Again, that's always how it has been

Not quite that bad

But almost always neos has had a majority private sessions

Anyone who's played for a long time can back that up. There's a reason we always had the funny hermit level bar

Yep

Neos+ doesn't even change that

It has more public worlds because moderators can't join it

Because from your own words people use it mostly in non listed sessions anyways

I think

That's bull

You need the plugin to join

I mean it's bull that banning all moderators == more public and active sessions

Not banning

Right, then they CAN join you

They just need the plugin

It's basically a private world but people can join it when they got neos+

In that case your point there is entirely invalidated

Oh

What you should be saying is "the mods don't use it so you're unlikely to run into one"

Yeah

Which again I don't give any craps about because I've only had two times where I've gotten into a discussion with mods over something that's happened in my sessions or that I've done and neither lead to any issues on my part

Someone might have guessed (from my avatar) that i have worlds that i dont want mods to join. Not because there is something forbidden in there but because its like getting caught with your pants down. I never had the issue that a mod violated my privacy and only once had a mod ask to join because of a complaint (see troll today for why)

Believe it or not I actually like a lot of the moderators?

It was never, ever an issue

Exactly. The mods of this game while I don't like ALL of them it has never been an issue with me or any of my friends of them joining and making a fuss

Yeah the issue is more about if they see a world preview and join it based on that and not just to hang out

Its basically like "oh no what have we done this time"

I do that sometimes

That's their job

Yeah scary because then the whole explaining why the world preview was a certain way

Well, yea, public or friends+ worlds. It is literally their job

If you don't want moderators looking at your session then you shouldn't have it publicly listed

And that's the only interaction

as the person who is making this plugin just because your on another connection hash. does not mean you dont have to follow guidelines as long as your using neos base game you must follow the guidelines hiding behind a plugin does not protect you i will file complaints and tickets if i have to myself.

I agree, it's alex who's saying the opposite linka, you're replying to the wrong person here.

Actually it is not a mod's job to actively police sessions, if they join they usually just want to hang out. Policing is done via the ticket system. Thanks

Yeah having the world public makes it sort of open ness that's why it's chaos in public worlds but fun

Good input, thanks prime.

You basically want fun as a party but without police telling to be quiet i see it as

well you are seeing it wrong.

If you want to do that, have a hidden session where people need to invite their friends

as per neos, the host of the session can dictate rules ontop of the current existing guidelines please follow what the host of the session says

Well, that matches my only experience with a mod. A query

Trust me they fill up just as fast and they're not public so you won't run into moderators

Yes but for hidden worlds you need to have friends first it's not public so people can't just join

Yes

But i see what you mean plugin would be like that too kinda

Nah don't ban

That would be mean

Exactly. Either way you're not truly public. One requires you to have a plugin (most people don't) and the other requires to be friends with someone in the session (most people aren't, but I'd argue more are than have the plugin)

And for that you need to heavily change your behavior.

For public worlds you need to act like you're in a public world, regardless of your version hash.

If people can join your world without an invite, then you need to act like it, regardless of version hash

That's the reading the room guideline

That's not a guideline, its just something prime advises

cheese man

It is already hidden then

If it's private it's already hidden, if it's not hidden but set to anything else it's not invite only

But i don't like hidden i like public but chaotic worlds

Either private and only you can invite, or contacts+ and your friends can invite friends and so can their friends and so on