People are still using it in-game so it will survive

Noone really knows that, as much as we don't know how the owners will solve their stale mate in the end. I think we all would not be here if we would not hope they finally find a solution. As such, noone knows what will happen with the coin^^

Bear in mind the uses in-world are... different. It's a bit like a checking balance than actually having the coins themselves. In some regards, there are two different tokens backed by one. Any expenses that occur in-world (storage fees) are sent back to the treasury to account for associated service fees.

Karel if talks is a thing you want to do with community. Here telegram is good. But lots of coins do discord or twitter spaces. All very good platform to use.

Neos has a discord, but i think Karel prefers this one because the moderator of Discord are of Frooxes team

Not saying he couldn't

Could use a new discord right now. Doesn't matter

Thats just fragmenting the userbase at this point

When new white paper drops twitter space, discord or telegram text chat communication will be very helpful for community

Both are good

Can help community and be transparent with certain things. Lots of good happen today

This stale mate isn't exactly about 300k (in my opinion). Its about froox not wanting to continue to give his code into a project he doesn't feel he owns. Its like having a bank account with your ex and continue using it

It might be ok but its extremly risky and stupid

Because it depends on the other person/party.

Well, i mean its frooxes decission i guess, who knows his reasons. I have my own theory that could be totally right or wrong, but in the end its at least a sign of some movement.

I take anything over deadlock

There was an attempt, but the issue was finding people who would accept ETH as a payment for work on a serious platform proposition. Needless to say, it didn't work, which was pointed out quite awhile ago

Post in discord seem new white paper news not positive

Need new thinking on issue

The whitepaper hasn't been released yet. Karel isn't that godly at typing

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Appreciated 🙏

Can we expect ncr bounce soon??

Its looks like bit possite to read karel
Messages ,

But ofc they arent what we want it to be 😂

Well, as soon as something really moves it might

But thats the point. It doesn't

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This chat is one big joke 🤣

It's definitely got a serious tone to it, it seems. Which, ya know, it is what it is.

Wow, that's funny. I just got sent an email regarding some NCR that I attempted to withdraw, but the receiving system wasn't able to handle tokens. So looks like I can get my 230 tokens back after almost 3 years...
yay?

If you have problems withdrawing please send me account name will look into it.

Eh, it was 3 years ago as an extraction from the in-game wallet, not a big deal. Just interesting the exchange finally came up with a recovery solution after all this time.
But thanks for the prompt response and I still give my thanks for attempting to fix the issue those 3 years ago.

Neos Wallets are part of Neos Accounts which have a recovery option if you forgot the password you can request a link to be emailed to you that lets you set a new password.

uh... that wasn't the issue. TLDR: Roughly 3 years ago, post bHaptics event, I withdrew 230 NCR in an attempt to use the in-game balance to effectively buy merchandise related to the event (namely, the arm haptics (which I can recommend)). The transfer out of Neos went fine, but the destination was to a non-token friendly wallet, namely the exchanges (which was my bad).
Anyway, all functions within Neos were running fine. It was just the exchange's issue. Thanks to Karel, many options were recommended to the exchange to help remedy the issue, to no avail... until roughly 3 hours ago, in where the exchange noted the option to finally use some recovery tools.

Mega TLDR:
Neos side of operations: Nailed it
Exchange side of operations: 3 Years of Waiting

so no worries

I remember a few cases like that. With Ethereum blockchain there is no central authority. It’s decentralized technology meaning noone can reverse a transaction which is fundamentally a great thing. The NCR is at the exchange wallet and they have to recover it. It’s a standard Ethereum token so it shouldnt be that hard. What exchange was it?

Hope they will recover it for you sooner or its seems more like later

Coinbase

Try their asset recovery page https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/trading-and-funding/sending-or-receiving-cryptocurrency/lost-assets I think they added it recently

Its a common issue they got tired of the support requests it seems 😄

BTW Coinbase wants to list NCR on their platform, have told us we have to be open source and properly decentralized first though which we totally should be for the token to do well

I hold 93k tokens for 3 years maybe now

Keep holding no other option

Thinking to buy more 😀

Hope is all i got

If we are not properly decentralized NCR could be mislabeled as securities in the US meaning a major problem for an exchange doing business in the US such as Coinbase so very understandable

How about
Minting , i think it would be heathy for the coin to be fully minted

Hahaha thats what I call 💎 hands, kudos! I’m sure it will get back on track.

There is realy
No point selling now 😂

Totally thats why we decreased batches to 5000 so Patreon will mint it sooner

Is there any minting actually happening or no ?

Yes every month on Patreon

Okey thank looking forward to
Hear some good stuff from you

yeah. I was notified roughly a few hours ago about the tool's launch and observing the transaction, including all details. I'll be trying it out later

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Karel, on my note of snapshotting the chain and moving to a new contract would u stay on main-net or using a layer 2 solution like polygon to reduce fees ? If you go this route

And about staking if it was implemented what would be minimum stake time and would it be Proof of stake or delegated proof of stake etc.

Just some questions I have been wondering

That kind of all sounds like a super really bad idea^^

What you do with that is literally splitting the chain

You would have old NCR and new NCR on a different system

Well it’s the only way to update the contract’s code sadly and snapshotting moves all transaction history blocks and everything you just remove the old one from swap platforms it would retain the same info

Thats... the whole point of a crypto currency

That it can't simply be changed because its a shared ledger

What you propose is taking a snapshot of all major bank accounts that people have, forgetting about any money that is cash or otherwise not on a major bank account and making a new random currency that is now... crown corks

So that people now still have that old money in their account AND a new crown cork currency

Its not a moving but a copy. You expect people would then use the copy instead of the original because it has better featurs or better rules, but you are not aware of it being just what it is... a copy

It’s a suggestion not a proposition and I want Karels thoughts on it not to actually do it. Since currently the contract has flaws and in its current state not expandable such as if you wanted to add staking or other functions

I know it would be a copy I’m not saying I don’t know that I’m saying it’s a thought to think about

Right, ok. I think thats the worst idea i ever heard but i am not karel, so yes, i just wanted to point that out. Lets see what karel thinks.

My considerations are based on security flaws and how out dated. The old one is and how it was constructed and I know what your saying to me and sure I know most will hate the thought I’m just curious of his opinions since the currency is in a low state as it is

To be blunt, the currency is based on the state of Neos and the peoples believe in its future. Its been 1,5 years and there is absolut no movement in any direction that would make us the least confident that this project continues to evolve. As much as this is a great piece of engineering, vision and project as a whole, its stuck until the two owners finally rip off the bandaid and break up the company

As such, the currency will be non-developing and being worth less any day this continues.

We will see once the white paper is released I still have hope

I think it's wild how differently people look at Neos. This chat is a weird blast of perspective because in here neos basically just exists in the group consciousness as a crypto investment vehicle, and that's how it's discussed; meanwhile I've basically incorporated Neos into my life as an important social platform and productivity outlet and don't ever really think about Neos in terms of money or finances. Two very very different sides of the neos sphere.

It's complicated, but the most overly summarized of viewing the situation is due to that divide. However, it is isn't really the reason.
The only reason you see the crypto discussions here is due to your observation, but not all parties are fully onboard and generally opt out or burn the tokens upon receipt.

it is not something i think about at all aside from the effect it has had on the platform, for better or for (much) worse

I have no problem at all with the crypto currency, i like the idea a lot. But if its blocking the progress of Neos, its the opposite what it was made for

To make this perfectly clear, i don't think it does. I think of NCR as a side project that is still somewhat running and has no major bearing on the success of Neos in the end. Its the other way around. If neos fails, NCR dies too.

That's more or less how I see it as well: NCR is just a part of Neos, but it's not critical to its operations.
Remove NCR, and much of Neos doesn't change.
Remove Logix, and people will lose their minds.
Remove ease of asset imports, and people will riot.
Remove VR support, and people will just claim "Second Life Clone"

That's why I just don't care much for NCR: it isn't ready to become a part of the foundation, since the rest of the foundation is still unfinished. It's okay to still build with it, but this isn't 2017, and people's opinions are not much the same as they were prior. What could have been a strong foundation of change was quickly turned into something not many wish to associate with, and unlike previously, people are voting with their time and wallet.

To mint the remaining 500 batches, Patreon needs at least 66 years. Will we still be alive to wait?

That was one part of the cause with the whole situation: the unannounced poll to burn the remaining by sending it to null. Not even the people who WERE in Neos were notified until someone used the Neos Bot to notify users regarding the situation

The poll also used Discord's "poll" system so... a free platform that anyone can join and cast a vote and- Oh look, everyone who wants to swing a market has joined the Discord.

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Nicely pointed out what's wrong with NCR currently.

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Why do not make NCR powerfull thing in metaverse play to earn or somethinf

G

It would would be big improvement

NCR is a part of Neos and until Neos owners split up the company, nothing will really move. Thats pretty much it.

Think about it like a married couple and both have a joined bank account (thats Neos). But they want to divorce.

Until they finally have someone deciding how to split that up, none of them would be stupid enough to pay into that bank account.

Splitting a company is higly non standard way of exiting a company that requires consensus of all parties and remaining parts having viability. Certainly not happening for Neos. Moronic idea. A company is not like a martige at all its a separate legal intity to any physical entity. One exits a company by selling his or her share. Thats pretty much it.

Well, i understand that. But if one of you two would have want/have the money to buy it, it would have already happend

You usually dont sell to other founders but other entities.

Depending on the company stage

Also did not happen. So every month neos is getting worth less and the community losing hope that this project continues one day until neos gets replaced by something equal or better. Doesn't sound like that good of a solution to me

No shit

Thats why the move is moronic, wasnt me who initiated this

Hey, i don't blame you for everything, don't blame froox for everything. Doesn't mather really in the end does it. In the end you both keep grabbing on onto something that is guarantied to fail until it does. I don't mean that in a mean way... its just what it boils down to

I think you both could do such great things. You have such unique experiences and made something such powerful and unique. And now... well... that talent goes to waste, isn't it. I don't want to overstep... just kind of be a mirror here

My team has actually a very good plan that has very solid chance of success. Not sure at all what Frooxius’ plan is other than hurting users and Neos. I understand your lack of fairh very much untiĺ solid performance. I guess we agree to disagree for now.

I see, well, i hope it turns out well

What are you thinking I can do?

You mean what you can create? As far as i remember you brought in a lot of experience with VR hardware and accessability at the start. I might be wrong, but its one thing that pretty much every piece of vr software is lacking

Ah ok I though you had a specific idea how to get things back on track faster

Or do you mean what you can do in terms of moving forward? Well its a bandaid in any case. If it would be me i would rip it off at that point. I really think you should split up the code in two projects and work with two teams

VR hardware is super capital intensive these years but definately interesting field

Yea, it is, kind of your knowledge with that might be invaluable to a company working on that already. But i also think of the software side in this and usability.

That would be great, Froox is the one who could do that though not me

Well i mean from the perspective of a company, it would be in the best interest... but if its not working, perhaps its just the people that are involved. You know froox is difficult and its less about not wanting what the CEO wants as it is specificly about you

Another CEO might be a solution, i mean you pretty much could choose one, might work better that way as well, you already sort of hinted that?

From the perspective of the company a former employee and founder is unwilling to share code for software that belongs to the company. Not sure what the company can do.

Hard to imagine a good CEO would like to come on board now.

True, true. So it comes down to what the company stands for. Its unable to act, the software is inaccessable, the project impossible to develop (from my point of view)

And as long as froox doesn't feel he is in charge of the code he will not add to it as well

Why not neos 2.0 with the devs that were hired?

Or no hire developers team?

Thank you

Company is not a spiritual being standing for things its a legal entity that is required to work for its costumers and owners. Do a service and earn money.

Yes, yes, i mean just... a company that can't act, isn't unable to use its product or even make decissions, isn't a working company, isn't it

If that was underway we would not announce it untill quite an advanced version would be available.

The company can and is acting

True. Might be a way that this ends too...

Must progress for investment growth. No progress updates or confirmation?

Or update soon?

Thank you

Right, well i don't want to make a discussion about "no it isn't" if i have no deep insight. It just feels from the outside that the last 2 years sort are lost to this project. But if you both don't rip of the band aid, well it will fail or go to the first person that actually develops a new version of neos^^

The general interface paradigm seems to have solidified enough for some serious work in UI at least. I'm pretty sure we are working twords a data glove interface with the current controller paradigm serving as a stop gap, but most of what we end up developing in 6dof land is going to end up transferring. I don't think we're going to see any fundimentaly game changing advances in hardware any time soon. Just incremental improvements.

Got to experiment more with the UX. I see that as a major benefit of Neos at the moment. Really rapid prototyping with robust handling of 3d and volumetric media formats.

There are pros and cons for both but I would say announcing later with more robust things to show for has mich more pros then early

Concept and future feature list must be provided to understand 2.0 project future roadmap, to decide.

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How exactly would you split it up anyhow? What would you say would be the "two projects" if something like that were to happen?

two independend projects based on the current code of neos

One open, one closed source, one Karel and one Froox... (and their team) and see what happens basicly

I mean specifically. I understand the concept of something splitting.

Each half gets a copy of the current base is what you're saying?

Each gets a full copy of all of neos. The beauty of digital things is you can copy them

I can dig it. I'm sure it's a lot more complex than it sounds but I gotcha

....

that sound entertianed in a fricked up way

Not in this minecraft server you don't

Cryptcraft

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Why do all the fun stuff happen when I'm in a meeting...

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Welcome Kai, dude

Welcome newcomers

*waves

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Hi

is this still active

this project

I rememeber there were issues with the founder

did they get resolved

Still not resolved yet, sadly.

can you eloborate

is it getting closer to being resolved

hasnt it been going on for a yer

No new official announcements yet.

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Karel Its so relieving that we have at least 1 business man alive !! :)

No change. Karel say he hire new developers, but also say no developers accept ETH, so no new developers

Inconsistent

nice :)

Maybe the clearest way to see it. No sane business man or ceo wants the job (it seams) and that pretty much lines up with the expectation that financially there is no reason to continue the infight.

I'm really thankful the new shiny thing is Large Language Models :P We actually have the opportunity to do plumbing work now without all this ridiculous hype.

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hi any exciting thing happening for ncr token?

... .... .... no

no? no updates?

is there any usecase for ncr token?

Actually yes. People use it as currency/token to buy storage inside neos

To store all that hundrets of gigabytes of art/movies/3d objects/...

ohh

Beside that, no

do u own some?

Yes, patrons get tokens since years and as such i have enough to pay for storage for the next 100 years i think

(basicly they got/get half of what they payed in € as tokens)

How’s everyone doing

Chilling at a Starbucks, something I thought I'd never say. Sadly all the improvement commits for my gamepad_reader for NeosVR are on my main PC, but I can make due even then and resolve the conflict later.

Yeah. It'd be amazing if there was some way to reduce the latency, but for outside viewing, it works alright, though desyncing is common. That part I wish there was a way to at least test that so I can offer users the option to automatically refresh the stream to catch up if it's behind by say 8s or so

yeah. I'm using an EVGA capture card, which has the OBS preview at no latency, but the RTMP NGINX setup is always resulting in 2s, even on a remote server OR local. I'm convinced the client has a 2000ms buffer or something

and I woopsied my VPN cert at home and locked myself out \o/

Oh well. I need to redo my setup there anyway

yeah. More of an excuse to eventually get my old HiFi server hooked up with my new laptop, since I basically use it as a VPN server at this point

on a side note, I've released the gamepad reader script for Neos onto Github: https://github.com/FlameSoulis/gamepad_reader

I have an in-world dynamic core setup that should make tinkering with it all fairly simple. Otherwise, it's just a CSV of axis and btns in two seperate results for easier processing

Niiiice

While I haven't tested it, it should work on even a Steel Battallion Controller. The system asks for all available axis and buttons of the controller and forwards them. Granted, it will not state much more than that and I might revise the system to allow 'reporting' like first time message being able to say "name,SN30 Pro"

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From Insider:
- Apple must do what no other tech company has done: make the metaverse cool.
- The iPhone maker is widely expected to debut its mixed-reality headset next month.
- The company's making a risky move as the tech world retreats from the metaverse and fixates on AI.

The world doesn't know a cool metaverse exists. Neos.

I still dont think any true metaverse exists, but Neos as a VR application is pretty damn cool.
Reallly interested in what Apple produces, so long as they don't try to butt in with their own standalone quest-like store.

A $3,000 headset

As rumors say

That's expensive for a headset xD

$1,400 to manufacture each one

wen does apply buy neos

Buy the texture gun (but probably different name as "gun" would get cancelled) for 2.99 in the appstore, give us all your data, because we are the good ones and shill an additional monthly salary on us every 2 years for a tiny bit higher resolution. What a fun Metaverse to live in 🍎

So much so, even Varjo is using the name for their new research project

Metaverse or Neos ?

Neos.
https://varjo.com/press-release/varjo-and-machinemd-revolutionize-the-diagnosis-of-brain-disorders-with-a-vr-based-eye-tracking-solution/

"Varjo, the leader in professional-grade VR/XR hardware and software, today announced its partnership with machineMD, a Swiss medical device company, for the development of Neos, an innovative diagnostic device being developed for the early diagnosis of brain disorders."

No doubt they will try to get more money through it

Subscriptions

And 30% from devs

wrong NEOS bro

lmao

You didn't read the previous messages. That was my point

Basically, the group is using the name, be it due to not aware or with whatever reason can be composed.

Neos is dead？

No

Looks active to me https://steamcharts.com/app/740250

already did my baguette day not that long ago

Neos has not been updated for more than two years, and has been in dispute with the team. I wonder whether neos technology is still at the forefront of the industry？

I have been following neos for 5 years. I hope this project will continue.

I'm relatively still new to Neos, and I've been involved in VR for quite some time now. Building in Neos has been one of the greatest creative endeavors ever by a significant margin.

Each day, I discover something new that the developers have thought of to include in the engine and its wonderful.

Why did I care about neos in the first place? Just because I feel that this project is so great, now the whole world is pursuing the meta-universe is the future. I hope that such a great project as neos will be a member of the future meta-universe world. Because the project has been stalled for more than two years, worried about being overtaken by other peers in technology, then this great project is really a pity.

So far there has not been a neos replacement so yeah even with 2 years neos is going strong

That's why neos is simply the best

The reason is that the contenders dont develop environments, they develop market places

Facebook pretty tried to create a space, but by being Facebook, limiting dev tools, being years behind in tech and option of expression + harshe rules and ideas about making it financial viable... failed

Apple is trying, but apple is known for limiting development options, environment, users and expression. Compatible only to their own software, connectors, system, rules,... they will never create a environment space or playground.

I mean just look at everything else they made. Its clear that their products aim at the top 10% that only want to own this products to show they have money. Not because they expecially good or useful.

They will go sell a 3000$ headset to those people and thats pretty much how it will end too.

Its like buying a stylish, multicolored, glowing hammer that only works on special designed nails and nothing else.

I hope the neos team will return to normal as soon as possible. The future vr world needs neos.

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I've never seen a project with as many people interactive as this, and it's wonderful.

Bro, Did we List our Coin in Gemfinder .cc ? its Getting more Traffic. Could be helpful for us.

Neos has officially been abandoned, and they've all left. Only pain and loss remain. Many people will go bankrupt after putting all their trust in the Neos Metaverse platform. Frooxius and the Neos team have quietly established their own company called Yellow Dog Man Studios s.r.o.

https://rejstrik-firem.kurzy.cz/19332785/yellow-dog-man-studios-sro/

https://yellowdogman.com/

you talk about people who bought ncr like it is the only worthy part of neos, what about its userbase?

Karel & @malooniac still lying to the community & NCR holders: "We work diligently behind the scenes" .Then, it all got out of control. Oh well. So embarrassing.

Then neos is dead, too bad for this project

also just to note this company has no relation to neos at all aside some of the members on the site it does not mean this site will have any involvement with neos

so jumping to conclusions is not a good idea

Frooxius is the main dev of Neos & Yellow Dog Man Studios. Does this really not matter????? His mishaps in Neos will persist no matter where he goes. Reputation, credibility, and professionalism???

It just means that froox is doing what he should have done at the start. There is no surprise in this of any kind. Yes there is still the war going on about neos code, but froox can't act as a company without being in charge of any company (even having 50% of the other company still means he can't do any decissions on his own)

this is reasonable to have an acting body with the programmers around froox.

no longer is he an employee, there is no obligation to stay on a dying platform

this is a good thing in my mind, it shows that the split is happening sooner or later

I would more worried about a constant status quo as a deadlock

doubt it considering none of this information is new in the slightest

right, well thats even better

And this info is at least new to me and the head executive was registered 11 mai 2023

ehhh, it only seems to mess with my perception of any reasonable timeframe even more

the need to have a company as an acting body means there is expected to be some product and employees under its umbrella, it is very good

this could even go as far as the yellow dog man studios buying elements or all of neos for its product or buying its name

that would be a strange series of events

xP

why?^^

no reason in particular, maybe it would be ironic

Big picture this makes totally sense. Froox could no longer add code to neos over the last year(s) and is still online every day. Meaning most likely was not doing something totally different. Reasonable to assum he did the same thing he did the last 10 years, as in developing neos or something extremly similar

As such he needs a company for his product sooner or later, as there is no way he can merge that with a company.

Yeah thats what I thought as well, was asking what is he going to incorporate as so Neos can make a deal with the new entity get it capital to kick start things. Got no reaponse.

To me it seems there are no plans.

Hmm, well i wouldn't know, its just how i see it. And i realize he "could" have added the code, but then again, if he feels he doesn't own the particular code he adds to, he obviously can't in the sense that he will not probably.

(as ownership is not clear or solved)

Or it could be a FUD. Prior to Apple's launch of the VR/AR/MR glasses for Metaverse development, this demonstrates their readiness to build their own Metaverse platform. I'm also quite certain that there will be a lot of FUD about the Metaverse for all markets.

Doesn’t want to is better statement than can’t. He literally can.

If one is co-founder its expected to be also co-owner. Waking up one day and wanting other people out is weird behavior.

I realize that, thats why i corrected the way i said it. What i mean is.. the divorce papers are not filled and both parties have still a joined account but noone pays into it for obviously reasons

For the millionth time this is not a divorce its a company and that is very different. A company is a separate legal entity. A marriage is not.

Karel, would you like to announce something to everyone? What are your plans for the future? Are you willing to give up everything or continue to accompany and develop Neos according to your vision?

As I said earlier we are finishing new Neos Whitepaper that contains plans going forward. Will announce when it and other related things are ready.

I can complete the whitepaper within 1 day because I can't fulfill the commitments in the whitepaper. Karel, have you fulfilled the commitments in the previous version of the whitepaper?

What this mean

The conversations and discussions by Karel are all stored and fully documented on Discord. I still don't understand why they dislike you so muc

Estimation weeks? Months?

It's strange that they always notify, report, and capture screenshots of what Karel says

Its not. Many people of neos don't want to be in this channel in still be informed

what Karel says is important for neos in some way. Its not as disliking Karel changes that

I’m used to being harassed for years nothing new under the sun. I’m not sure the strategy is working.

I don't think that has anything to do with harassing. While it happens, this is just information. I would not make so much of that.

if we are talking about the ones i post they aint really for notifying or reporting more of just cataloging and so people know whats going on i dont mean any harm since not everyone has telegram
not everyone in neos is even in the discord

I mean karel would not say it in an open channel otherwise

It feels very much as harassment.

I see. Well perhaps it is, but as far as i see they just copy it for discord.

thats how i allways saw it ..

Its pretty much "screen or it didn't happen"

Through the discussions on Discord about Karel's statements, I feel like everyone there truly hates him. They even want to harm him if they were to encounter him in person. It's insane. This is the harassment he has to endure, and it feels terrifying. Karel, please leave the Discord community and don't pay attention to them. If you don't do that, you will be under tremendous pressure that could drive you insane

I think you overreacting. Yes the team of froox disliked karel, thats why people speak of the whole situation as a divorce (well at least i did, didn't i). As far as the situation goes its not as much bad blood as it is broken trust. Trust is important in a partnership, expecially if both own 50%. Fast forward two years it was not solved, so something has to happen.

This seems to be big threat if all team member now work for new company? Current CEO and CTO but no devs for metaverse...

CEO says that he has a team. We don't know and i will not spekulate

But most of the known people of the community work for froox, yes

New white paper should include new team under CEO. These are not good news. Mr Karel need to show new team soon. NCR start mint is .06 USD and current is .08

Thats up to Karel really, we will see what the next weeks bring, it will be very exciting i hope

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What is wrong with archiving discussions?

Just curious

assumption that it is harassment, which really isn't the case

.. yeah, it's not harassment, and not everyone has telegram.

Id honestly be kinda suspicious if someone was trying to stop that

it does.. they screencap everything he says mostly i. hopes they can find some sort of legal gotcha. I mean its pretty obvious they even say it

hi newfriend, that's fine and all but I come from the reality where I've observed everyone's behavior for the past two years and the gross things they've said

and also what harassment looks like

I just know the original reason there were bots etc set up to snapshot and archive the telegram wasn't to see what was being said here so much as the intent was explicitely said to be to hope to find something liable to use... basically a different kind of stalking and harassing

well actually whatever its their right to do that

but I just want us all to know what the intent was...

I just popped in for the first time in months to ask if anyone knew if the apple headset would have eyetracking

based off what is known

Your observations on people's behavior do not make you an authority to inform anyone of other people's intents if they haven't been explicitly stated by the people you're talking about. And unless you have specific people with specific expressed intent in mind, what you're doing is painting a generalized picture in very broad strokes of a very large group of people who all might feel differently from eachother (in this case, the entire neos discord server). Even if you think it's "pretty obvious" why people might do things, it may not represent the whole picture. I sometimes take screenshots of conversations I think are interesting and important, or may serve to add context or information to a discussion, and I've never in my life considered trying to legally gotcha anyone. Sometimes it helps to see from multiple perspectives. I have no doubt there's been harassment towards both sides from uninvolved onlookers, as there always is in these situations. I'm also sure that screenshots have been used to that effect from both sides, just as I'm sure they've been used in some discussions to try and facilitate more peaceful and balanced perspectives as well. It's a very nuanced situation, and it's a bummer all around. Pointing fingers and demonizing big groups or even individuals from either side is an annoying and unproductive thing to do.

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hey guys, again I come from reality where I'm not trying to gaslight people into thinking there wasn't years of harassment, due or undue, toward karel in the discord and publicly on twitter

maybe um just disregard what I have to say and look at comments from that period kthx

much of the intention is archival, notably

Not to mention so many members of the team, be it the in-world moderation group or even the people who help with training, have also been banned from this channel in large numbers, which means their ability to help new users when asked questions, especially ones pertaining to information only available here.

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Hello guys

Nice community going out here guys

Hi Jackson, welcome

Thanks bro, so how was you day?

Eventful, thank you. I am currently heading to bed. You have a nice day/evening

Dev are you there?

Devs are in Discord

Okey bro thanks for that

But if you can help me get him I will like you to reach out to for me bro

Okey e thanks for that info bro but I prefer we chat on telegram bro

What are you wanting to ask about? Those here can possibly answer your question.

Are you telling to me if I may ask

What is the reason you want to reach out to the devs? Just questions about the game/token or a business inquiry?

I will say a business offer on this his project bro

Business inquiries are handled via email at hello@neos.com

You'll want to reach out specifically there

Like I say earlier I chat on only telegram bro

Okey thanks

I haven't gotten any answers from you guys

hm?

Did you have another question? I feel I answered the previous one sufficiently with where that type of inquiry is handled.

If you can get to him I will be glad

I don't know what you want me to do? If you want to make a 'business offer' you should probably contact the business directly. The method for doing that is email.

No I don't have fro now bro

Okay

I get you bro

Do you have a project of your own?

???????

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Yeah I got permanently banned on neos. VR for so-called impersonation of staff when I am a mentor and training and sexual harassment which I did not do and I tried going to the link that it says to go to for moderation and it says this page no longer exists

You can submit an appeal at moderation.neos.com this is the only avenue for appeal. Thank you.

Orc it's not!

I do this all the time even with private chats it's to help others who might have discord and not telegram

Can I PM you for a minute

Not going to lie Karel but don't you have a UK entity?

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Can you please clarify if there are any new devs to redevelop Neos or not?

And this discussion was going like this for years without any progress?... I mean its not much, but neosvr has still some funding from patreon. Same with froox patreon. Sorry, but from my perspective it seems more like living with money without doing anything... I may be wrong and will LOVE to be corrected

And thats the problem. Theres nothing from both sides. Only weird "secrets" going under the roof, hidden from everyones eyes. If it was a question of surviving and having to bring the product forward to earn money - it would be a different story (maybe), but for now, even without progress, theres still money, funding, etc. -> that just reinforces bad decisions.

why me ?

Just want to say something in private

But dosnt matter now

well i just woke up, but understandable

It wasn't bad anyways :3!

no problem loads people dm me anyways from these chats all the time

Does this mean you don't have access to the code?

Even then, code isn't too helpful without people who understand it, and figuring out how the entirety of the systems work (remember, the client is not the only moving part) will take a very long while.

Unless otherwise noted, the issue is the ownership and management, not the access.

I tried to appeal the band and no one responded. The person who got me banned said that I was impersonating a neos staff member when I was a mentor in training and they also said that I was doing sexual harassment when I wasn't. They're also using a vore mod in public incidences

No one from the moderation team is going to discuss the details of a moderation decision in public. You will only get a response through the appeals form, and that can take a while depending on their workload. If you believe someone is violating the neos guidelines, you can use the same form ( moderation.neos.com ) to report the details of the incident, the people involved/the people that witnessed it as well as the session it occured in.

As previously mentioned you need to submit a ban appeal at moderation.neos.com we have no record of your message on there.

If you create an appeal and would like to check its status please privately message me the ticket number which you'll get from moderation.neos.com.

so what we know is: Atleast one side is unwilling to compromise

there's not really any "negotiating" like it used to be implied. At best, sides are working to subvert each other

Is $ncr still useful in neos?

Yes, its use hasn't changed, you can still send it between players and buy storage space with it.

Can confirm. Much storage space, indeed!

Progress without current ceo? First update and some structure. Minimum is better than current NCR website and two years of nothing

Karel say before he hire seperate developers, but no update. No progress. No social. No blog. No hope. No change. No future.

No responsibility, blame others

Disappointment

This chat really do be like 80% a pit of people popping in just to repeat complaints about the state of things. Ya hate to see it.

At least people arent being rude these days

That is indeed a good thing

Well with how things are I wouldnt be surprised at this x3

I cant speak for everyone of course, but some of us are just users that want this type of platform to succeed and everyone has a right to be frustrated about the whole situation

Were they before?

uh... previously was full of 'colorful' commentary, to say the least

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Sooo, new users, lets hear more complaints xD

have a little faith xD

Oo I got one, why is it so slow

Be more specific? ;)

Downloading assets mostly

Oh, yea. Its not actually that slow. Compared to the delivery network of other VR-Games it is one of the fastest i ever see (just have to look at the transfer rates of VrChat for example to realize that)

The reason its so fast is that it uses and expensiv cloud delivery network that is excessive in cost. But the reason why it still feels slow is

The assets are way to big and the user use way to much uncompressed textures while the game doesn't reinforce any better compression or limits the size of assets

I have a hand-sized duck that takes 1.3 GB in the game

Because it was autogenerates and contains more vertexes then the world-limit on vertexes in VRChat

Well I mean some days its more abysmal than usual as well, sometimes weeks and still a lot of the time im getting 700kbps

Well... hard to say, it shouldn't. We still use Azure right?

But yeah I get optimization is a big factor

Most world i go to have downloads over 2GB of assets

So i am not suprised over loading times of 3 minutes, even considering it COULD do that with my connection in about 20 seconds

I always try to convince people to make their avatars 100mb or less if possible

or have at least a version for public worlds with a 50mb limit

I mean 10m+ times tbh. The movie world I can see, but it happened in a couple fairly optimized homeworlds as well

I mean, it could be everything. Have you considered that the disk that the assets are cached to might be an old physical disk?

So that the hundrets of small created files are an issue in itself?

ah hosts disk?

well, yes, your harddisk the neos files are stored on. Is it an M.2 or at least SSD?

and is it nearly full?

Mine is on an M.2, and upgraded storage recently, loads of space

I meant the space on the disk its stored to, but in that case its probably not that

Its on C which is a WD Black SN770, custom cache folder so it wouldnt get nuked

ah cant send photos but over half of the drive is free

Thats fine. Its just something that happens to some people. If silent failures on worlds loading happen or it takes incredible long its the go-to solution to see if there is memory left to download the assets and if the disk is nearly full (may slow down a lot)

Yeah: that factor should be adjusted in the future. Like, we can see how many assets we're getting and all, but I think we should see how many are cloud-based and local-based since cloud-based transfers are usually far faster than the local ones, since not everyone runs their worlds like commercial servers.

Otherwise, it gives a false illusion that Neos is the most sluggish system out there... when it's because the world someone was visiting was hosted on dial-up.

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aside from that guy who likes to reacte with the poop icon to things he dosnt like

but i just laugh at that

probs ate too much cheese

never actually thought about putting it that way, but it would make sense

Is it possible for Mate to acquire neos?

Mate 🤔

I can only find like one company named Mate that has any software relations as their primary company focus... and pretty sure Neos wouldn't be within their interest

Your mate is welcome to try, better buy him some pints before that though

🍻

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Meta would probably try to acquire other social vr platforms to destroy them so that their horizon can bloom.

or just acquire for patent farming... assuming Neos has resulted in any patents pending and/or published

That and the Quest Pro tie in that was totally not sponsored...

of course, it could also have been just that one time... but we'll see.

I mean, look at Tilia's Unity Plug-In announcement and VRC's denouncement of crypto being also pretty close to eachother... but that was a long time ago...
Though.... they did announce trying to use a finance system so.... maybe not so crazy to spot everything converging...
Though Tilia isn't with Meta...

(That will be interesting to see how that goes, since VRC+, if I recall, cannot be purchased on the Oculus store, and MUST be done via Steam or whatever. I'm surprised Oculus/Meta hasn't thrown a fit about that, since it's basically bypassing their finance system...)

I feel like someone already did. Kinda. They invested so much that they have a huge say now to how vrchat continues its development. I mean whats the other reason for them to bring out EAC update?

Also question about Crypto stuff. Why does neos directly had to have something to do with Crypto? There almost no implementation of it that works for masses. I mean, Second Life (kinda) has this system of ingame currency, but how many people are actually playin SL? In fact, for the most users its the opposite of attractive when they join a platform and see everything cost money. That was at least the case for SL. Its a very niche thing that suits only few people.
For Neos though... I get that as a business it should also have a group that focuses on earning money etc. But is Crypto really the best option here? You know, VRChat got huge Investments because they just did an awesome job of bringing people together. Vrchat is even kinda a whole assosiation for the vr. Many people bought VR headsets literally for VRChat. They didnt have crypto.

And look you have also a coverage from youtubers, that can give a platform some boost

I can only imagine how popular and successful neos could be only if it focused on other parts. Like damn its a freacking Engine AND social platform at the same time.

Needs some polish with UI (at least the stuff that werent updated yet like inventory window or inspector). It needs a bit of a separation between normal social part and the development part. So that user who just wants to play would not be blasted with tons of tools into his face, but at the same time so that you can switch into dev mode and start creating.

Its maybe a year/two worth of updates and then bringing a project back on its feet. Youtubers will catch on, like omg, gears started turning. Give interviews to some guys, pay some youtubers to check out neos. Bring out a Quest 2 / Pico 4 version of neos out tp reach a bigger audience.

And then make a subscription plan for like 8.99€ for more storage and other cool things.

Like, I know it cant be done immediately, but if those things were the goals for neos... Just how different could everything be?

And intergrate boosty

Because that payment method works without USA credit card or USA paypal

With boosty a lot more people can then buy storage

Nah a lot of people can't use patron anymore

You can poke a teammember if you need storage quicker, as far as I remember

just through steam or make a self hosted subscription on the website

thats to stop double charging if using the subscription method since how its working with storage its just safer to do it start every month

How would it double charge?

This was the explanation given a few times in the discord in the past when it was brought up.

Yeah no, you can't force someone to pay 2 times in patreon

Okay... This one is pretty simple: back in the earlier times of VR, crypto didn't have a bad reputation. If anything, it was a common buzzword that a tech product pretty much was obligated to add. For Neos, the idea was it was an alternative way to assist with funding, but with a reward given in NCR. This token could, at the end of development, be used to help kickstart the in-world market.

The key here is "was". It's important to be able to adapt and change

Although I dont remember any VR devs to implement Crypto into their game. Maybe Neos wanted to be the first one. Didn't go well, but why try to force it still?

As for the money thing, don't kid yourself: VRChat is crazy expensive if you think about it. You want an avatar in Second Life? 1000L$ is about $4 that goes DIRECTLY to the creator. VRC and otherwise? Due to no in-world systems, creators have to sell as full art assets, which costs 5x more on average.

It was VERY common. However, most of the platforms from the era died out, crypto assisted or otherwise

what's it then for Neos itself?

If the money goes directly from user to user. If the goal is to make money from this... weird decision. If the goal was to make the process of buying/selling ingame assets - then it sounds great, but the game itself should be sorta finished first before even thinking about this kind of stuff

but from messages of Karel it seems like the idea behind it was not simply to make it easier for people to buy/sell assets ingame

there were investments, hopes to get money out of it. Fund the project

Well, the issue is that there's not much of a complete system for it, since it wasn't finished. There's an API for the testing currency, but that's about it. Again, the idea was that by backing on Patreon or via ETH, you would get a currency to be used on completion. The only function at this time is storage boosting, but that is handled internally and doesn't reflect any public APIs.

to be honest it was more down to users to impliment stuff you could do a lot with the tip jar event node and some http nodes but eh, no one really used it beside some jp arcade but that used the KFC not ncr

As for fluctuations in value... Yeah, you pretty much spotted what people figured out; because of the fact that one day, 100 NCR could be one value and the next a totally different one, people were less inclined to buy things with their tokens on most other systems. Instead, you just have people hoarding and not contributing to the market. This is why when it comes to a functioning system, the L$ is the system most compare to, since it doesn't have that issue (the value can fluctuate, but it is far slower)

That, and buying and selling it is a million times easier to deal with. Need L$ now? Clears with Paypal in seconds. Need to sell L$? Takes about a day or two to get cleared for verification on withdrawal to PayPal.

Making it easy to access and use is why SL is still going strong. At least on its own funding, which more than what can be said for VRC, who still needs investment charity.

VRChat has a hell of a base to build on. If they would decide to make something like assets market etc. - it has a huge chance to be successful. They can even allow themselves stuff like EAC update that goes against community.

But, no matter what the community says, how many complaints or support there is, how many youtubers make videos about it, how many people try to get patreon to support the project, its like trying to go through a wall.

It would be really awesome if there was any way/chance for a normal user to push this process forward. Like, I genuinely have a question -"What we do to help?"

as in like a community goal thing?
I mean, nothing wrong with that, but it's all complicated. Neos is pretty adaptive, compared to everyone else (wonder why Neos has lasted so long with almost zero updates?).

Opinion: The thing is, it's a bit like going from a Mac to PC: People who use PCs tend to scoff at the simplicity of a Mac... but people can't say Macs don't look good. Neos is in a similar pickle; You have more you CAN do on it, but with it, comes more controls (behold, a SECOND mouse button being standard), but it also comes with a slight learnign curve. Thing is, a bit like a Mac, so many people suggest going to VRC because funny means and simple, like how Macs in the early days were given often to schools for nothing, so early on, people use Macs, learn Macs, graduate, then when it comes for a computer... it's a Mac.

I mean, look at Twitter, Facebook, and other companies stuck with controversies that people continue to use despite what is going on: the services provided are what they are, and the alternatives, despite often offering more, don't really get used. Asking people to go from VRC to Neos isn't straight forward as simply saying "Yeah, all that? It just works. No mods." People don't listen to logical reasoning with that kind of stuff.

For small projects its important to listen to users while trying to direct them into the right direction. I mean, learning Unity is also very hard, but I dont see people complaining much about it.

We all know the major complaints about neos. (None of them being the lack of crypto btw)

Its UI
Its poor optimization
Its difficulty of use
And of course lack of updates.

Those are the biggest yet I've heard from literally almost everyone who tries neos for the first time

If you want my analysis, it's the following: Neos isn't as popular because people don't think what a normal user actually is or what they want. I would be seriously curious on how many people in VRChat even upload an avatar, let alone created anything. Sure, VRC is taughted as "A place where you can be anything or do anything," but how many people ACTUALLY do any of that? Creative power sounds great on paper, but in execution? "It looks cool, sounds cool, but I'm not a software engineer."
People want as little resistance to getting what they want. Loading a site is typing GOOGLE into a bar, not typing 172.253.115.106. People want to drag a unitypackage and have their avatar just work... not drag things in. Sure, for creators, avatar creation in Neos just blows VRC out of the water in some regards... but then you are asking creators to deal with a system that, API wise, could allow distrobution to people who buy on Gumroad or whatever... but now they have to dev on TWO separate systems.

The overall experience isn't quite the same. Software on a Mac and PC is like a world in VRC and Neos: both can look and operate the same, but the overall systems you use them in aren't.

UI (well, nothing too advanced, just needs polish, try to separate advanced stuff from normal social part)

Optimization... Hard. (But something that can be done is for example to bring baking in, or Unity SDK so people CAN bake proberly, to stop using real time lights. Etc etc.)

Difficulty of Use (As I've said before I think a good idea could be just to separate the social vr and dev part. So that people who just want to enjoy social part wont be blasted with complicated dev tools etc)

Lack of updates (Literally start working on project and stop lying)

Regarding dev stuff... the thing is... that's equally complicated.
You have to understand Neos's culture, or what's left of it (which you will hardly see here): Creation is almost its own language for people. I can bring in photos of something I made IRL, or a funny video to show everyone. Those are all part of Neos's dev tools to some extent.
However, I can see more towards another thing that meets a bit in the middle, which is a cultural shift to just ask the people to avoid using the dev tool and inspectors all the time. That's a tall order, since some systems do rely on it for doing other stuff.

As for the other parts, like say movement options being in the radial menu... that's also up to world builders to form some kind of agreement, as the ball is entirely in their park. Teleport locomotion, for example, is often absent due to how much it can break things, yet is considerred an important thing for VR users who suffer from motionsickness.

It should be investigated more why exactly people say neos is harder than lets say vrchat + unity.

IMO they have the same difficulty

Maybe its the first impression, just how many information is thrown into your face right from the beginning

That I can concur and agree with. I mean, VRChat's tutorial, if you really look it over... is kind of terrible. Neos's does explain everything.... but it EXPLAINS EVERYTHING

Maybe it needs a user rank system, so that new commers first focus on experiencing the worlds, the game, not start working on an extremely hard avatar right away

OH GOD NO

I think it also has to do with available content and accessibility to it. VRChat has many worlds with hundreds of avatars while Neos has a couple worlds with under 50 avatars. Also not having a structure similar to unity packages, it takes a good amount of dedication to setup a custom avatar in neos and that kills it for a lot of people

Unity takes some dedication too, but people already know what they are getting into with VRC. Neos is an experiment in comparison.

Yeah that. Also the worlds tab in the menu in neos is... i dunno why, but it feels more complicated. Maybe like a starting location shouldnt be a 20 min tutorial right away, but maybe like a corridor with rooms that show examples on whats possible in neos

Additionally, creators already did the hard part. For many people, it's 'drag package in,' 'change pretty sliders,' 'upload,' 'done.'

We have A LOT of worlds and probably needs even more organization, or clarity. Not sure how to go about that

For a start a remade worlds tab

The irony.... guess what WAS remade

The world menu you see is part of the newer systems that were in the works...

I mean yes, but maybe next time find someone who maybe learned a few things about the menu and knows how to make a good and intuitive menu? xD

Creating a custom session requires so many god damn clicks like even when I know how - I loose myself in that menu

It doesnt have to be this way

I think it boils down to this: Neos needs ONE UI language... not 50 million.
Let's be real: in the current UI system, each system feels like a school assignment. The New Folder button in the Inventory? Also the Save to Inventory option if you drag an item over it.
Buttons and everything should have a new UI library that EVERYTHING can agree with, and a layout that is ENFORCED. The settings page is my biggest point, where it COULD be saved if a UI system was made where options were added organically to group boxes that expand as needed, so less work is needed to tweak things, since the larger part was already done.

For example I dont understand why these sessions have to be in the "Everything" tab

oh I cant send pictures

you can.

You can send anything over the messaging system: remember what I said about 'hidden' features or buttons having multiple purposes? Same thing. The green button next to the voice record can be used to send assets, including pictures

I meant here xP

OOH... yeah

the workaround is imgur and what not. It's because of, you guessed it, abuse of the feature...

the home and local sessions, dunno why the gotta be in the Everything tab, like, it makes it confusing, because it mixes the worlds im in with the worlds I would potentially want to join.