Why not have a separate tab with "Active Sessions" with sessions im currently in

of wait

there is "Active Sessions" tab

yup

but it has different sessions xD

not just mine

thats what I mean by unintuitive UI

oh go to custom then "opened worlds"

at the top

omg it's even more complicated xD

yeah. The other thing is that VRChat is organized in Worlds -> Sessions, whereas Neos goes straight to Sessions. Additionally, Headless servers also count, so even if you had just sessions... you'd also have those show up, adding to clutter

The problem is that Worlds in VRC are published as is: Neos could have a person's saved version of a published version, thus having a new ID, so you can't really organize that way either.

Im gonna list of all tabs that make no sense why they are in the worlds tab.

Everything(Why call it everything?, weird naming, The first should be the tab with sessions with most users, and going from a server with most users to less), Featured(featured what?), Published Worlds(isnt featured tab for that?), Headless Sessions(does it matter what session it is?), MMC23(what is even that? (in the eyes of new user)), Social (Isnt everything already social?), Art (ehh...?), Shuffle(I mean, this one is not that bad, but the naming could be different).

Active Sessions should be sessions that you are actually in, not overall active sessions. That's what "everything" should be for

This custom button is hella complicated as well wtf xD

and that's ONLY the worlds tab

Why does "Desktop" tab even exists in the menu?

The desktop tab is for VR users.

granted, I admit, for Desktop mode, it should be hidden

Last time I used it it was much laggier than steam overlay

that's a bit unfair to compare that way: Steam Overlay operates on its own system and is literally the system that handles SteamVR, so it is always running the best.

Additionally, the Steam Overlay doesn't operate with tough UI systems. Using apps in Neos uses a setup that allows touch screen like systems to work where available. This means scrolling in Chrome/Firefox results in a far smoother experience.

usually the game is opened, so when I open "Desktop" i just see endless mirrored screen

I dont need explanation 😆The fact that it needs one is already bad enough x3

oh okay, it was just explanation of unintuitive UI, thats all

but thanks anyway, some of these things I actually didnt know

yeah.... that's what've been told for years xP

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well, that's the other thing: Virtual Desktop or whatever else app you can use is not the same as the environment app in use, so controls conflict. Using the Desktop viewer in Neos is free, and you won't accidently click around on things you didn't want because of it

Is there an update on tokenomics?

There is not, You can search this channel for some commentary from Karel who has promised a new whitepaper soon. Thank you.

Why is that whitepaper so important anyway? Isnt it literally just an information paper of goals of the company etc.? Kinda useless at this state of Neos honestly

i really wish it had the same input method as other desktop viewers though, the neos one doesn't really have a mouse cursor which is a bit of a pain
bonus points if it could also have ui access without needing to run neos as administrator ;3

I can control the virtual desktop out of neos with my vr controls. Also i never have started neos as administrator

right, but if you want to control stuff like uac or anything that launched as admin then neos can't by default

oh yea, sure, thats windows and not neos

its actually also exactly what UAC is about. Limit applications that remote control things that are potentially dangerous

It depends on the settings of UAC and not on neos

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I don't see much point in positioning Neos against VRChat. Their goals are wildly different.

Well, wouldnt it be cool for people to assosiate VR with Neos? :D

Like they do with vrc

I'm not really interested in the popularity contest aspect of platform building. VR is an emerging computing form factor which remains highly experimental with a very niche userbase. VRChat is a social vr platform, Neos is a VR platform that can support social VR. Emacs and Microsoft word are both text editors, but I'm really not about to suggest that Emacs needs to chase microsoft word. I just don't see the point in abandoning 99% of the toolkit for name recognition.

Well... You arent maybe. But it doesnt come alone, there are of course problems with being popular, but also good things... Like money

In the early days of desktop computing, a quite famous happenstance was that the freeware version of DOOM became more popular than Microsoft Windows. Generally, gaming was and remains the widest driver of computing equipment adoption. At the moment Social VR is the killer app for VR hardware, but that's not where this process ends. Neos is positioned uniquely to explore the space that comes next, and that's where it's opportunities lie. The integration of educational tools such as the circuit simulator, rapid integration with new VR hardware, rapid development of proof of concept vr applications, effortless architectural previsualization, effortless import of medical imaging formats.

Chasing VRchat is a fool's errand. They are much better capitalized. But Neos isn't a better VRchat. It's a platform that happens to be able to support a better vrchat. While VRchat can not be beat on it's own terms as a consumer platform, Neos is unmatched as a professional tool for navigating 3D data formats and simulations in vr. That's the strength to leverage. To be quite honest, the social Vr aspect of Neos is best viewed as marketing, even if it is a more capable product than VRChat it is not where Neos is going to be able to disrupt.

I think the reason for a large majority of the anxiety is just the expectations of what Neos once was and how it's basically gone.

Doom may have been on more PCs than Windows itself, but also recall that Microsoft basically created a team to make DOOM also work in Windows as a means to get sales. The thing is, we're starting to see that, where VRC is taking plenty of Meta's money (Namely, an addition of a feature "exclusive" to a headset from a specific company doesn't magically appear, only works for that headset, and the company selling the headset doesn't magically have a sale in less than 24 hours afterwards). What gap of 'bleeding edge' that Neos once had is basically gone. Neos isn't a niche anymore; it's slowly just being one with the standard of even VRChat, so the comparisons that were previously less justified are now anything but.

Yes, you can build VRC in Neos. WIth some plugins to do UI swapping or whatever, you could pull that off. Once cannot encompass the other, but is the opposite the other way around. The thing is that the effects of having Neos once be a leader in "That cool new VR feature" is now becoming no more, and we're all starting to feel the effects of it.

Neos is still the most capable vr toolkit out there right now in terms of pick up and run with it integrations. It's frustrating to not see it being developed or leveraged, but it's still just not a VRchat competitor and never really was. Nor is VRchat a Neos competitor. Neos' competition to me, is Nvidia's Omniverse. We're definitely sleeping on an opportunity, but VRChat was never a threat.

Social part is IMO most important in Neos. Delete it - game is dead

The thing is... in retrospect, while true, the MS/Doom comparison still rings a bit true in another way: even if not competition, it IS something that is hurdling the fact that people aren't coming over. Let's be real: Omniverse, S@box, Somnium, whoever the heck: even if they aren't direct competitors or are, the general public pretty much looks at everyone and goes "VRC Clone." Say all you want how it isn't competition, how it isn't the same thing...

When people pretty much use VRC as the comparison point, it's basically something you have to keep in mind at all times. Yes, this doesn't ring true for games and what not, but the similarities for Neos and everyone else against that... the argument is just trying to narrow down who to focus on, when the end goal is still the same.

The comparison was and stays with "VRChat" + "Unity" 😂 Whatever developers are trying to make, nobody can force a big "proper" explanation of what something is or isnt

Maybe garrys mod too xD

The end goal is, for me, to identify and develop useful abstractions to push HCI forward into its next paradigm. Vrchat isn't really talked about outside the social vr circles. Or if it is, it is as a meme. There isn't a general public opinion about specific vr applications. Anyone discussing VR in any length is a hobbyist in a niche technology. As it stands that discussion (e.g. the popularization of vr, arguments by market share, market appeal, etc.) is wholly dominated by Meta in particular and their constructed public.

I don't find that a useful or desirable perspective unless we want to create Meta's metaverse.

Which, to be clear, is Microsoft BoB in the Doom => Windows metaphor :P

Did you know Microsoft Bob was all vector graphics? It was annoyingly future proof in ways I can't belive never got put into windows.

We still don't have resolution independent scaling 100% sorted in pretty much any major modern operating system. And there is Bob back in the 90s being a laughing stock and entirely resolution independent :P

What does... Neos try to be?

If not a platform for social interactivity and creativity

A "Metaverse Engine".

If its only an engine - then its not a game. Not sure if its fitting xP

It's what it says on the tin.

Okay

https://wiki.neos.com/Main_Page

designed to accelerate the development of social VR

*applications

Weird explanation. It sounds like "Unity but made only for social VR applications"

Sounds like you only develop inside of it and do not play it

Social VR is a buzzword TBH. It always was weird to me. It would be like calling an MMORPG a "Social Computer Application."

Fundimentally any technology can be used for social activity. Doubly so for networked technology.

Social... Well it just means its focused on social interaction. Not particularly on gameplay of the game

As a genre, sure. But we also have 'social vr meeting software'.

social vr is entirely a Metaism IMO. There is some truth to some of the observations about the impact of vr with regards to socialization, but I think it has more to do with the desire to associate it with social networks and hammer home that Brand Recognition.

Consider that there are game-forward experiences in both Neos and VRChat. Even experiences that are intended to be single player, just because of the convenience of the toolkit. Or how about the distinction between party games and social deduction games?

I think Matthew Ball probably had the right idea. He called these sort of applications Integrated Virtual World Platforms.

Wait... full like... SVG styled... vector graphics?
...My gawd...

Yep. Every scene every UI element.

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