For players, yes. If anyone wants to create small addition to neos, the modding community is always happy

For neos as a product obviously no. Many things are already outdated after two years of stand still. The engines used have updates and new versions that need to be patched in. Neos itself was never finished, its a work in progress, its not entirely stable or close to featur complete.

Addons are nice, but not a replacement to patch the core.

Major thing that needs to be in the core obviously is a physics system (is promissed to be developed.. or at least it was)

No Karel statement?

you would see it here if there was one lol..

Messages deleted?

Messages deleted

But no statement?

It's a fun little Easter egg, if I didn't have a laptop I would use a screensaver that allows a local html file to be used and modify the JS to automatically cycle through Quotes and add a few more

wrong site xP

When is some king of update in neos??

Been waiting years …

its only been two :P

scroll back 10 messages and slowly read what i did write just now

I am sure that is exactly what will happen. The single dev will pull the code of Neos out of his hat, because he is just that good and push a new update very soon. Yes. I can't wait!

the new devs are probably trying to reverse engineer neos

If they exist, yeah I suppose.

right...

I mean if they subscribe to the patreon they can get the SDK and the Debug Enabled versions of neos from the Offi- Wait! There is no Official Discord!

debug build is old and broken and is just unity profiler for ram useage and such

the sdk is a tempermental child

Better than nothin

when i say tempermental it doesnt work unless u change some code XD

Thats the joke

They had a discord, that would actually provide support, and then Karel said they were impostors so they stopped, so the little bit of support that kept the patron manageable (storage benefits), no longer exists and my issue with patreon (missing two months of gunter tier NCR rewards) has YET TO BE RESOLVED

but the 'new' team has claimed they are reading emails every day regarding support?

I was told by Karel, here in this channel, to wait until the "new system"

with no ETA or clue what the "new system" would be

was... that the answer he gave everyone?

No clue

Here is the message

That was in regards of migrating from SystemA to SystemB. Issue is, if you are missing 2 months in SystemA, that quote doesn't specifically state they are honored in SystemB, only that the current balances would be

Unless they are taking notes about who is owed what, that's going to be pretty nuts

Until I get more concrete information and verifiable promises, I have canceled my patreon subscription

do not blame you. I've heard other people doing the same, myself included. Shame, since I was onboard for years and appreciated the extra support for headless on the respective unofficial channels

1-3 days I believe

But that stat has also been an apparently false one so far

New system will give Patrons all their NCR including last two months. We have all the info via Patreon API and our database. No worries.

Do we have an ETA on when the new system will be implemented?

None

I purchased 20gb additional space with NCR and had an active patreon subscription, after the 20 gb expired i have 1gb space and am now sync locked despite still having an uninterrupted subscription. Could someone help please @malooniac Karel i did send an email

None

None

None

I am unable to work on commissions and I’m still completely sync locked.. Is there any chance someone can help me ASAP with this please…

I don't have the time personally, but if you want to try help yourself. This solutions will help in any case. Going from easiest with no data loss to loss of all caches

https://wiki.neosvr.com/Stuck_Sync

See sync-errors before starting. It could be some actual error like no harddisk space on the cache-disk

(first topic on that site)

I have had an active patreon subscription for years, I needed a one time topup I got with NCR. When that topup expired of space. I got reverted to 1GB instead of my subscribed 25. That’s why I’m sync locked sorry.

Essentially for whatever reason I have had my Patreon space removed despite still paying for it.

And that puts me at 2312% over quota haha.

Oh thats harsh. Official solution is to wait. Inofficial is to go to the inofficial Discord and let an inofficial Admin give you a temporary boost until the problem is resolved

There is also a solution that you, as a artist, might find useful... you know the local world you get spawned in at first? (not the homeworld, that world that opens first)

If you switch to that local world, everything that is stored there is stored only on your computer

its not synced but also not lost in any way

I don’t think Swifty wants to handle these query’s anymore, that’s why I came here.. I’m just hoping it’s resolved as soon as possible.

I thought you can’t wear an avatar in there? Never tried but I seem to remember being unable to equip one. Could be wrong. But. As I need to test rigs and weighting I need that.

and you have the right to get a solution, i just offering things that i would have tried in a pickel. Its not a good sign that such important things are not solved

You can pretty much do everything in the local world, including testing and designing avatars

I will try that in the interim then, thank you.

i hope it helps you in the mean time. May try to ping Karel and the other admin

careful, avatar protection can get you here

yes, it might be a good solution not to attach avatar protection

it can be attached after finishing designing it

I'm pretty certain the team will check it out, but you can't seriously expect it to happen on a Saturday night, lmao.

They wont do it, Karel has called them impostors so they refuse to provide support incase Karel goes after them for legal issues

Ah, i understand. Yes that makes sense, as its a financial issue.

in the past, they would do it after verifying you did infact, have that tier, but after Karel said that... They wont

I understand that, but I did also send the email yesterday and pinged them both also yesterday, just slightly over an hour of Karel speaking in here. But no, I don’t expect anyone to be doing ticket crap at 9PM in a Saturday.

But at the same time I would like to be able to have my access back to something I’m paying for. :p

So nice to meet you Leah. Thank you for supporting Neos. 🙏 Your Neos Cloud storage space was increased according to your Patron tier. Sorry for the wait, we’ll have a better system with nearly instant updates up soon.

Thank you, and sorry for bothering in the weekend, thanks for resolving it. Have a good rest of the weekend!

I’m glad you pinged me. You too.

Agreed. I've pulled my years of support in its entirety because this 'soon' business is disruptive to my own projects and ability to suggest the platform anymore, as has been the common statement by many others

Very understandable, it should be out in about two weeks if there are no new gremlins to work out

So, two weeks, plus or minus another 2, in the event the gremlins aren't too bad, should they crop up?

(Well, more like plus, since Minus would require the use of a timemachine)

How long does it take as neos is still reporting 1GB

I’m sandbagging a little could go both ways

What should be out?

An update including better handling of Patreon rewards

Please try logging out and in again

I did just a moment ago hun, need me to try again?

Ah.

I hope NCR opt-out will still be respected with the new system.

Eyyy! An timeframe! WOOT

Karel's exceptional work with updates, well-organized timelines, and unwavering support, especially during weekends, is truly commendable, setting him apart from the unofficial Discord. 🙌🏻🔥

He's so unbelievably quick 👏 I can't wait for neos to get back on track 🙏 hoping to see the moon soon 🚀🚀🚀

👏👏👏 🌜🌛 🚀🚀🚀 🤘

I can't wait to see him come through and save Neos once again. It's going to be awesome 🚀🚀✨✨

...

What? I’m really excited, finally some news! 🥺

you will be able to see the moon tonight 🔥 🔥 🔥 🚀 👍

Fly Me To The Moon, Let Me Play Among The Stars

And this is what we call a brown noser ladies and gentlemen

No one likes brown nosers

let me see what spring is like on jupiter and mars..

when i hear the term brown nosers. it makes me think of a wild west cowboy insulting the new sherif

screaming orchestral

in other worrrdssss

hold my hand :>

truly karel has outdone himself this time

Ain't fair, man. I'm just happy Karel never gave up on us. 🥰

I will save my praise for when it actually gets done

better than zero for two years lmao

Karel gave up the community made moderation team and unpaid free labor.

So ...

I'm holding my praise until I see results

im just watchin all this while vibing to frank sinatra. high vibe quality

Karel's been grinding for years, making sure Neos could even see the light of day. 🙁

this is highly unfortunate, at least there is a new support team in here

Then who has the source code? Not Karel.

Karel's team will have to decompile everything and rebuild if they want to use the engine neos is built on, or have to start over entirely from scratch.

Again, until shit happens, my praise is held

im sure they can handle it with no issues that i could possibly imagine

Man, Karel's been busting his ass as a CEO, pouring the best ten years of his life into making Neos a success. It's cost him dearly - his friends, family, and maybe even his wife. I think he deserves some praises. Man is a hero.

Karel has a wife? I thought they were single

Maybe he's single now, ladies… 😏

by that wording, probably no more
but thats not important, neos is 🔥🔥

Well if Karel ever cracked open the discord he would see just how important the discord is to the community (aka, the people who are paying for neos)

neos came free with your xbox

If Karel succeeds I'll find him new waifu on Neos! 😇💛

If only

No Neos no waifu :(

https://ctrlv.link/nsYX

That’s how I see Karel rn🙏🏻

This chat is one big gaslight rn. I have zero clue who is and is not sarcastic about what.

I’m just fangirling… 🥺

No progress 2 years...

No change, nothing

Many promises but empty words

Still waiting

Lies

I genuinely have NO idea if this is a bit. If it's a bit it's played flawlessly, if it's real it's confusing.

Honestly yeah. I wouldn't call Karel an angel after he pushed team neos out after all their hard work

Oh and to top it off, it is likely NeosVR's source code has an licence file in it that prevents resuse, OR if it's hosted on an git service like GitHub and GitLab, by default repos without a license fall under AllRightsReserved, meaning only the owner of the repository and those explicitly allowed, can use the code.

Lol what. Froox and the team threw a bitch fest "strike" and demanded that Karel step down as CEO and hand the entire company over.

One of the biggest self owns I've ever witnessed

Imagine where this project could be if Froox and the rest didn't act like literal children

And yet Karel is the one deleting messages and banning users who critisize his work under declaration of "FUD", which is such an abstract term it cant be held under court

Hence again

why I am waiting for results before I give praise

Smells like oversimplified

Karel may have had his problems as CEO. I certainly didn't agree with all his decisions or style. But Froox and his team are the ones who pulled the plug.

How split was that "strike"? What percentage of the company engaged in it?

It depends how you determine who is part of the company or not. Technically speaking no one currently that is part of Karel's companies are on strike. Additionally none of froox's team are on strike either

So, if we limited scope to whoever was "employed" (by contract), noone went on strike?

Stupid low iq word games 🙄

Yup

]

/s?

The entire discord was using the term "strike" informally. Now when it suits you, you're trying to apply some technical legal definition, which I'd obviously dumb af because no one's ever been unionized here

FUD sounds like a french pudding

....the entire discord was? Not sure who, but okay.

If you search the discord you'll see me repeatedly saying the term strike is inaccurate and doesn't make sense. But ok sure whatever.

This definition is cannon now. And tasty.

mmm. fudding

Yall really have nothing but try to play little word games, it's cute

okay

okay

I think they're just Correcting your missinformation but ok

🤡 sure buddy

forgot the :

If you really care so much about misinformation, why not correct Kari's comment about Karel pushing out the entire team from the company? We both know that ain't true. Even by your own terms just now in response to the "strike" issue, they were never employees.

I don't see a user by the name of Kari above but I'll keep looking

I found

We don't need to be employed to be pushed out. None of their statement requires employment

Did dev team choose to stop working on Neos themselves, or was that all Karel as well

That was us.

ah, excellent, this is the good part.

Right, so nothing to be pushed out of like Kari was saying then

Not correct

But ok, have a nice day

Well the team decided to stop work. You just said so. Seems like they took themselves out, no?

None

It's not like froox and co developed nearly the entire thing or anything 🙃

So yes, pushed out, as I was saying

How *exactly* were they pushed out. Be precise.

Remember what kicked everything off? Making huge decisions without even asking what the rest of the people working on it thought, and signing with their names without permission?

welcome!

None

Doesn't answer my question

Regardless, now that we are 2 years out and given where project is now, can you bring yourself to admit that maybe.... just maybe... Froox and team could've handled that shit better

Karel is a 50% owner. Wtf did they think was going to happen? That Karel would just step aside quietly after putting in 6 years of his own life into Neos?

Nice L

"sure buddy" is an oof

Ok buddy

what could have been done? They were all volunteers and contributing on their own accord. When decisions were being done without being asked, they weren't exactly required to continue providing support, and what support was being offered even beyond that is still not mandatory.

I mean, if Karel wants to run things in a different operational standard, one without volunteers and all... then what does that leave them to do?

It's not exactly a public Github project or anything

Oh I don't know... maybe discussing it like professionals instead of through discord announcements would be at the top of my list

Froox and Karel were both half owners after all

you mean the one that is auto linked via Patreon and was only recently marked as unofficial? I mean... okay?

Not like they can use Twitter, since only Karel runs the NeosVR account there, and the website is the same thing. Plus, most people who are in Neos are on the Discord so...

Wtf are you guys talking about. I'm saying Froox should have met with Karel with the teams concerns and demands, instead of just ghosting for months except for a couple discord announcements.

Ye I got swept up in that, I see what you're saying

I don't know enough about what actually transpired between the two of them during the initial rough patch enough to even have an opinion on it

I mean... he only made 2 announcements... one in response, and one addressing the user surge of '22

They said multiple times that they tried repeatedly

Yeah see that's what I don't know. Whether or not there were attempts at formal or peaceful communication over the concerns before it blew up into something bigger.

...I mean, judging by how the professional license holders were not getting any responses via email, not exactly help that case much

I don't know the private conversations between froox and Karel, but that isn't my recollection at all

Sounds like research is required to justify positioning.

Ya let me just research with my magic glass ball that will let me listen in on any of their past conversations. BRB

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/875811073624784967/1132530225834623026/image.png

also the message link for non screenshot verification
https://discord.com/channels/402159838827905024/439421931830378506/949441120616742943

This is just about the white paper. I'm talking about coming to the table to work things out instead of letting things dragging out like this for two years

Can any of you really say you're happy with the current situation

What's the got to do with anything?

Being unhappy with the position your decisions have led to doesn't make your decisions wrong.

It wasn't just the white paper that Karel refused to communicate about

Yall can disagree/dislike Karel all you want, but as 50% owner Froox was not in a position to just freeze out Karel

Nor Karel to freeze out Froox? How does Froox feel about the Discord being made unofficial? Do you know?

Im not in discord anymore, but Karel def tried to negotiate with Froox and team after shit went down

uh.... by who's account?

Neither are obviously. That's my point.

That's at least more balanced. I can vibe with that.

license holders can't get ahold of Karel. People here sometimes still have issues getting ahold of him for support. I mean... even if you take the team's statements out... it's difficult just to get a response that doesn't magically come out of nowhere, and I'm not exactly keen on paying the Pro license fee to test those waters.

Lol

good, ol' pig bot

literally? i don't know about literally

Frooxs March announcement said there is no space for Karel on project any longer and effectively tried to remove him, that he could go work on NCR coin by himself (which is worthless outside of Neos)

Yes literally

"We no longer believe that there is any space for Karel in our shared goal"

and the cherry picking commences...

Provide more context plz if you think something is missing. Pretty straightforward comment imo

I'd post screenshot of the announcement if I could but can't in this channel

Ah yes
"We don't want the entire focus of the program to be the currency, we'd rather it be a feature" is the exact same as "NCR literally cannot touch neos"

Just checked out of curiosity to see when the last uncensored F word was before the bot. It was Karel lol

Not indicative of anything but maybe a little humorous

even then, it even states outright that NCR in Neos wouldn't die anyway...

ncr having worth outside of neos doesn't make sense

Thats the point I'm trying to make

if anything, they wanted to respect the holders' contributions and provide actual assurance

Please don't make me laugh

I'm not much of a comedian, but okay

is this where i can address a patreon issue?

yes, for better or for worse

Here! What's the issue?

with all the above happening... yes. It's best to ping both karel and Andrea, in addition to an email to... hello@neos.com...

Possibly worth pinging an admin depending

my patreon email is differrent than my neos account. How can i fix?

you may directly message karel or andrea or send an email to hello@neos.com

Also the email

I think they said here and email are the places

Hey, wasnt NCR supposed to be provided by Karels own company, as a third party integration? As a response to Prozac claiming that it was to be removed entirely.

I hope I didn't just misinform. Is this group an official place for support?

seems they are inundated though because it can take a few days for any response

from what i can tell

it is technically the only place left

No other channels were established. I think during the discontinuation of Discord's support, it was suggested to set up additional sub channels or something for Telegram but... well, here we are...

At least in the context of the proposal.

I never said that. The third party integration was always a BS offer.

technically that means being removed from neos in some manner of speaking

I mean... it's technically in that state to some degree due to the Steam build, which is mandatory to remain on the storefront.

So currency would be opt-in, similar to how it is now

just looking through everything as It was a community thing and since I had promoted the patron in the past before this shit-show i'm annoyed with Karel changing things behind peoples backs like the patron terms changing without notifying the patrons and the calling out and hyping the crypto portion without looking at the overall community i'm so over this stalemate come on and owe up to it mate and allow the community to advance so done just want updates and fixes

i don't care what difference it makes since karel still is the one managing ncr in either case, so why is it even important

Actually.... no. It'd be Opt-In, as it's currently Opt-out atm

if anything since the split actually makes sense for focused development in either project, why not propose that?

^

I wasn't the one who brought it up

so what, why is the detail important then

That's what I assumed NCR was in the first place

As ppl said many times in here when third party integration was being proposed, it's a completely bad faith offer. A random coin unassociated with Neos and without official support from team is absolutely worthless.

The reason NCR had any value was because of prospect as official (but not necessarily exclusive) currency in Neos with benefits like server space

Without any of that, it's about the same as anyone ginning up a random ERC 20 token and trying to tell ppl to use it in Neos

And that wouldn't still be the exact same if it was a service separate yet integrated?

benefits as i see it would solely be the offchain wallet and mildly deeper integration which is trivial
storage could easily be bought with almost anything else

unless someone has direct evidence to state otherwise, NCR was a means of rewarding people for supporting the project, as a token that would help add value to the market once the project was mature enough to support an in-game economy.
This would allow exchanges between users to be given more merit and people who helped support the project early an earlier start in market participation.
The thing is, you could always also opt-out of it, as mentioned on the Patreon and Wiki. This is due to some people having issues with crypto by its nature. Considering the situation with the rugpull, that put a bad taste in many supporter's mouths, as it hurt their viewpoint on their 'support tokens'

also, Neos has two currencies.

this makes close to no difference in my eyes except now it gets called "third party"
who managed ncr before, just karel, still..

personally NCR has caused more issues than what it's worth like integration with a crypto payment system is cool but as it currently stands it just no

can confirm. Any NCR related issues were directed to Karel (who handled them quite well back in 2021, I might add)

Hell, having it a 1st party integration would probably be harder

there is a lot of nuance I'm missing because it really does not matter to the end user

I disageee but we aren't talking about end user. We are talking about it as an offer to Karel in order to get him to leave Neos. It was a worthless bad faith offer with respect to him specifically

Well, yeah, but Karels probably never going to back down on it, so the only options are to find a middle ground or be forgotten

it's not even anywhere near a great offer to the development team either, it is a compromise
and for me, i certainly don't get to say neos is "ncr free!!!111" just cause it's not first party

Lol a worthless bad faith offer to one side is by no means a "compromise" or "middle ground"

heck, as I mentioned, it'd also lead to better market functions for the community. It'd force a secure API to be established.

okay? there are also worse outcomes

and then, what can be better?

Well the crypto bro's have already had there fun and well the platform is stuck in mid air I've been trying to bring new users on board but once they hear of Karel they distance themselves form the platform due to uncertainty and lack of updates

It's not like team neos was literally already doing everything outside of NCR

naw, course not

I need a refill for this session

Unfortunately we need to wait a little while longer. I can't pull anyone on in good faith because of the situation. But it sounds like Karels got something planned at least

neos is basically unchanged in several years,and did not get worse or better
until something will change, then personally i chose not to worry about anything

i am in neos right now.. nothing feels very different at all

And is supposedly sandbagging about it

Well.... storage server bugs due to the new system's developement, some emergency hotfixes due to YT-DL getting sledgehammered by Alphabet, possible improvements to performance being held back and requiring community intervention to resolve....

it's really had and I'm heartbroken I love the core concept and community is absolutely second to non the best that you can get to build on but this is just hard to see and yes I know it's not going anywhere but very hard to get people onboard

Not even just performance improvements, there were lots of features on the horizon to be super excited for that we just never got.

if it even comes

storage is a big one..
but im kind of biased then, it still has worked though now with delays

patreon on the other hand, i was never a patreon

yeah, but the issue is that.... well, a large majority the people who contributed via the ETH wallet... well, they don't care. They never touched the product and don't know the community...

The only change for me is the lack thereof

For me, I have a combined Patreon and NCR backed storage. Techincally speaking, I have enough NCR to last a mega long while

i am set up for another year and if a year passes I'll just do it again :p

Just be patient, change is coming

maybe next month!

It's been almost 2 years. I've already begun plans with alternative systems, that ironically fit the 'supporter's' desires much better. It'll suck, but I want to keep my hand in a decent standing incase the river ends up being junk

i have all my eggs in one basket unfortunately
certainly i am in need of a basket-sized egg transfer machine

A lot of my neos creations rely on behaviours mostly unique to neos, and the way I create things works best with logix. I've poked around with other platforms, there's no alternative to neos.

honestly that should be a separate thing the community should have been the central thing because that is what at the end of the day promotes the product and strengthens the overall system is the users but most people use crypto as a way to make money like stocks not as a payment system so yea I couldn't care less about the crypto since it's caused this issue in the first place community is what should be prioritised

i forget how easy neos makes some things
the relatively fast iterating, wysiwyg, dynamic logic, it's insane

If I could make that kind of system myself, I really would

a lot of people end up feeling this way and it isn't wrong, but somehow it can end up being ignored a lot

and to add with more the community grows it can and will boost NCR due to it being used and the overall traction if your looking at it from an investment perspective

this falls flat if ncr is ever volatile which it was

The issue is... that's both true but also not exactly.
NCR was introduced during a different time. It remained in the project, and while other projects floundered, Neos didn't. However, come to today's handling of it, and then what you say is very true... and you can then spot the issue.

a token meant as a reward for participating in the project was now attempting to be monetized... and the market system it was meant for... didn't even exist

well volatile yes but NCR wasn't properly embraced by the community and was hastily implement with no actual way of using it in platform other for player to player transactions or buying additional storage but if it was implemented with full systems to utilise it i'd say it could be more stable if it wasn't traded like stocks externally

because... there was no way to embrace it

well, specifically, there were no ways to utilize it

also, bear in mind, that Neos started off as an Education system... and people who were on it that used it as a hangout, suddenly got surged by people who wanted to talk stocks and finances... during a time when people who were on the platform couldn't get a graphics card to enhance their experience...

(And from that... I think you can start to see where people started to have distrust with the new users, of those who did jump in during that moment back in Q4 '21)

mhmm yea

now... had NCR had API functions in Neos itself.... maybe the story would be different

with the sudden market of new people... being crypto centric, paid services would have been a stronger possibility, and people would be more encourged to participate in the market if automation for such could be done

ZD Fraser if you got nothing to contribute to the conversation do not react to my posts

None

The irony is that this is supposed to be where 'loyal' users are, and yet you will find the trolling factor here 10 fold higher than it is elsewhere.

In short: get used to them, because the admins will do nothing

A valliant effort but I don't think ZD can be reasoned with

I collect their reactions like Pokémon badges.

hehe

I'm really looking forward to seeing Karel prove you wrong, real soon! 😇

I reckon Christmas is just around the corner! Thanks a bunch, 🧡Karel🧡, for sharing the estimated time before the update. Much appreciated! 🚀💫

Bafflement

I can never tell if some people here are trolling or actually believe what is said

Aisha is the only tricky one for me right now.

Hard to glean anything tho. One AI profile image, no username, simple name, random bat out of hell Karel praise

A bit susamongus

karel is the best 😼

No need to take me for a troll. Karel truly is, and always has been, a charming, handsome man with the brainpower of none other than Elon Musk himself. 🥹

Interesting

If Karel were born in different times, he could've touched the sky, you know.

I'll be right back, I think something other than my braincells are burning in the kitchen

Honestly, I absolutely despised how someone attempted to portray Karel as some kind of pedophile mafioso a few days ago, and they even went as far as stalking Karen's and his girlfriend's social media accounts. 🤯
It's just ridiculous! And let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with having a good time with girls over 15 in Czechia. 😎

yipes. stalking is definitely a very intrusive and strange thing to do

Agreed

I'm curious about where you are from

This is the chaos I love to see XD

ZD the poop emoji bandit

..? did something get deleted?

might be just random noise notifications from the sewers

Yes

Not sure by whomst but ye there was a response to my question

is ncr token dead？

I mean your financial conclusions and decisions are ultimately up to you. There has been a pretty consistent downward trend for a while but whether it's "dead" or not is basically up to investors to decide. It's still tradeable and all that, pretty sure.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/966921670793252918/1132942537871609876/NCR_ALL_graph_coinmarketcap.png

None

Hey, everyone! Sorry about that, my Telegram was acting up, but I'm back now! 🧡

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srv51s

The CEO's heartfelt letter, it has been one and a half years

The day we're thrown under the bus

You know what? Karel is the absolute best. He's been passionately devoted to Neos ever since Froox first came up with the idea for the game. I really hope all his family plans work out in the end 🧡🚀💫

This graph looks pretty bleak, however NCR was created in July of 2018 and for most of the time it was worth 0.06 USD or sligtly above. The whole graph including the previous 3 years looks much more optimistic with the Meta hype and dev strike shortly after as more of a blib than a starting point.

That said looking forward for NCR to get into more adequate prices again. Way too cheap in my opinion.

What's the plan to improve NCR's value?

NCR is only as good as Neos itself so improving Neos is the way forward. Making Neos Credits more useful such as having them as a payment option in Neos Store will help as well.

Do we have a timeline for continuation of Neos operations/updates?

There are multiple internal roadmaps ranging from a very optimistic one to a quite conservstive one. The important part is that we’re getting there.

release conservative roadmap with new white paper update?

Personally i would be way more interested in how this should even work?

This feels like a core-code problem, as even the avatar protection isn't 100%. And without access to the code neos is based on, how should a store integration work to ingame or evaluate ownership?

Let alone, an actual API integration system that is reliable? Storage is still temperamental

Any solution that works would be good. But my personal expectations are a website with products, that are related to storage capacity and otherwise completly unrelated services

Can't see how any neos integration would actually work. But yea, i like to be positivly surprised.

The word sus doesn't even begin to describe...

It's deleted now so lol

Definitely a troll

Their account was acting so strange, it self terminated

I've heard Neos Store a few times now. What is it?

I think it's on the wiki as a future feature, might have details there

There's a link to "the whitepaper" after a mention of the store on the faq page of the wiki. Appears to not work though

Probably spambot

Neos Store is a future feature that would give creators the opportunity to sell their custom content - avatars, in-game assets…anything (withing the limits of proper licencing and other legalities of course).
There are some incredibly talented users within the community and they might like the idea of monetizing their creative work.
And of course it would play a large role in growing the creator economy, popularity of Neos and motivating community to produce a high-quality content that other people will enjoy.
So it also ties in with what Karel mentioned - making NCR more useful by utilizing it within Neos Store as a payment method.

Only problem is that adding the store to the game. Would require the source code to add it

So... As I am saying repeatedly. Results before praise

Because with my knowledge of the situation, Froox is 100% capable of "forking" the neos project and rebranding it with its own servers

Legally speaking

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong (and provide sources)

I am not praising anything or anyone, I have just answered a question on "What is Neos Store"🙂

I assume NFT based transactions and item DRM

Based off of how heavily Karel is pushing block chain technologies

And I appreciate it 👍 well answered

Having a virtual asset store doesn't necessarily have to mean implementing NFT-based transactions.
It is simply an interface that would allow users to sell/purchase virtual assets to/from other creators, using NCR. If they wish to do so. It would be up to them. The specific implementation details and other legal responsibilities would of course need to be determined.

Just this is the overal idea - to offer a convenient and secure way to compensate creators for their contributions to the platform - and encourage more content creation, in a natural way.

I'm guessing that securing assets is gonna be similar to the "SimpleAvatarProtection" system already ingame

Would love to hear confirmation that implementation of this is gonna be ingame, since source code access is a major concern.
I don't want to go to the neos website, buy something there, and then paste that thing into the game via a link to the asset I purchased.
The system's gotta be integrated, otherwise what's the point

This has been planned since 6 years ago. Until now, there's still nothing in the development roadmap. There's no ID system for objects/license system yet. I don't know if Karel can add those things to Neos without the source code

You straight up cant

And in order to ensure it, you would need anticheats and an closed API because you can literally extract the 7bson from the game, and save it as Json, modify, and then past right back in

You could litterally extract the 7bson for an object and remove the Simple AV protections

Almost everything Karel wants to do. Requires the source code

Which Karel straight up does not have

There's like 1 way a product could be completely secure given how data works

Yeah, an anti cheat. Which legitimately ZERO % OF THR PLAYER BASE WANTS

plus, unless an massive update to the game engine itself is released, mod devs and plugin devs can *easily* bypass such systems

Karel has envisioned many things in imagination. Decentralized economy, decentralized payments through the NCR blockchain, decentralized job opportunities... There's the Neos Store, a cost-effective payment method using NCR (but NCR is a part of the Ethereum network, and gas fees remain high for small transactions of a few USD). Who will realize these dreams for Karel if there's no source code and no Froox? Or are they just empty promises without substance? Karel can only control the website, cloud servers, NCR wallets, and wield the power of an executive director. But without the source code, it's not possible. How can Karel confidently release the Neos Store?

also all ingame transactions are currently centralized
good or bad your opinion

None

None

No UI UPDATE=NO USER=NO VALUE OF NEOS STORE=NO VALUE OF NCR

I am of the opinion that if you would directly sell virtual content, like it is expected by people (sell working avatars, unique items, worlds (games/tools) directly in neos, this would be a big driver of innovation for neos.

Giving simpler access to content (lets face it, importing an avatar is not simple for new people) that is so much better than compareable solutions (VrChat where you have to download 3 dev-tools, open a file, fulfill specific limitations for the account and upload that with tools meant for game development)

On the other hand, just making a website that sells virtual content against NCR and competing with other big names while not giving this advantage seams useless to me.

So where is update then

CEO full control of Neos. Need to see progress

Neos is not a website and it’s not selling virtual content. I don’t like lies in this Telegram group. This is not NeosVR Discord. One more lie and you’ll get banned.

Yes things should be sold directly in Neos. Selling it on a website only would be moronic.

if neos had a shop, it would obviously allow to preview the items, like see new clothes on your avatar before buying

I would say that would be not even difficult to implement. Because of the way that worlds work in Neos, you need to save the item to your inventory to move it to another world

Or to say it differently... You can let the people play around with your item in the selling-world all you want, as long as you don't allow them to save it to the inventory

But again... thats all based on the ground-rule of having changed at least some core code

Other metaverses have world purchases and website purchase. Should do both in future. Allows user to purchase things while not being in metaverse

Changing existing or having new compatible client

Yes, correct.

Having it on the website is great, just not exclusively

I mean, selling it on the website as well is not a problem. There could be an API integrated that adds the item with set privileges (as integrated objects, similar how avatar protection works) to the inventory of the user logged in. I mean the website already features the inventory.

Yes, so like expected a change of client and server application. Its nessesary anyway, as the integration of owner and the buyer (and the privileges the owner gives to the buyer) have to be integrated on server side

Well, i will pleasantly surprised to see any core development. It would mean a major shift and finally a continuation.

I keep hearing talks of a "Neos Store" but what would be in this store to purchase? Cloud storage maybe, but other than that what would its purpose be?

Neos store was a general concept for a marketplace of sorts where users sell to users

Could be as simple as selling avatars, although facilitated inside neos instead of getting like a unity package through gumroad. Not sure how good it would be asset wise, I would still like an avatar fbx/blend file for non Neos use I suppose

Sounds like an interesting concept, but what about the possibility of user distributing paid assets to others who haven't paid? I guess that is a possibility now but I'm just curious.

There was some mention in the past of license systems/components. dunno how exactly it would work but I assume not as easily sharable as the items we have now

But also, you could share assets illegally in neos right now, just as bad of an idea as if there was a store system.

Sharing of logix systems and stuff I get tho

Great ideas yes, but until I see work being done... No Praise personally

Glad to see the intent to get shit done is in the works

Nah on this timeline we won't see anything. If we see a new system in two weeks like Karel says I will be impressed

There are some tools and things that I like being free, but I understand if people would want to sell them to earn a little money for their work

I hope that we still can download stuff....
Thats a point why I hate the SL market place, its a closed systems and now you kinda rely on ripping tools, if you want to use your paid assets elsewhere

I think Neos currently has good commission strength when it comes to setting up items or avatar systems for people. Items individually, maybe. It better be cool or useful though

Yeah that would suck.

That could possibly be a license thing if someone is allowed to export an item out of neos or if it required to stay in neos

It would be bad if not

Could be a built in thing (component like Gunnar said) that disallows the export of the asset. Would save time instead of trying to moderate it because I agree that would be very time consuming

What the system needs to do:
Needs to control privileges (what you allowed to do with the asset). Saving it to your inventory, sharing it, spawning it a limited time per world,....

What it doesn't need to do:
Prevent exports out of the game or be resiliant to hardcore code attacks.

DRM is a waste of time and development resources in a project with aspirations to an open api and open source client.

It will be cracked, period. The best you can hope for is verification (e.g. proof of purchase) and records of providence.

"But, but, how can i make sure people don't steal it?"
You can't, but lets be blunt, currently people on gumroad selling the unprotected files. The ones getting those files could share it. It is more a license than an actual protection or DRM

It is good enough if the DRM just acts in a sensible way ingame and prevents low level attempts to copy it

Piracy will always happen one way or another unfortunately

It would also be very good if import of a license would be supported (license import) to get access to the premade object this license is connected to (and stored on the cloud anyway).
This has multiple advantages, even if it doesn't seam like it at first

"we want to sell something in the store, that would make people circumvent giving us a share"

Yes, but steam does this too, for a reason. You want people to use that platform/shop and you can't prevent people from importing the avatars themselfs anyway, if they have bought it outside. By allowing to transfer/giving away licenses as a artist/programmer for neos, you also make sure that the object will be "the same" from the cloud storage situation. Meaning it has only be stored once instead of thousands of time. It also make people interact with your shop.

As such this is more than a store, its a licencing system actually.

would love to see a unity prefabs situation - you buy the base prefab, and your edits are recorded separately.
Then, if the avatar author updates the prefab, everyone gets those updates immediately.
Or they can refuse the update for compatibility reasons.

But again, How will we get this update if the source code's been lost?
Are they going to release an update with a dnspy patch, a neos plugin, or something else?

...however, one issue no one seems to be noticing.... but if the content purchased is delivered to the user... should it honestly use their storage space? Technically speaking, it's the same asset as the creator, unless modified.

You'd need almost a new folder type and new component: non-sharable (unless the creator DOES want that, bear in mind).

Honestly, as much as people seem to be hyping up the idea of a marketplace, you aren't going to do it with a small group of people. You practically need a separate team just to handle market support related issues, from people having failed deliveries to whining about "Oh, this item isn't for me. Can I get a refund?" It sounds easy, but if you have even a single set of delays in handling it (and poorly doing it with bad channel management, hint hint), then people will just ignore the system

heck, you basically then need to come up with your own answer on the Ship of Thesis, considering that Neos's object handling BASICALLY would make that happen as a NORMAL occurrence. If I grab an item, it parents itself to me. If I'm wearing an avatar, should that grabbed item now share the same flags as the avatar I purchased? What about if I attach it another way? Snappables? Proxy linking?

Yeah I see those points. It's definitely a massive undertaking of a future time when we have thousands of users and not hundreds

Not to mention.... many content have TOSes on their assets, explicitly not allowing involvement on blockchain stuff. So if the new system ties into it... congratulations... you basically just made an entire platform lose access to a majority of assets on Gumroad, especially avatars

Bottom line: the whole idea of a marketplace right now... is just to side step the actual conversation that should be had: what to do with a dying platform? What ACTUAL issues is Neos having? What are the ACTUAL priorities, and what work is needed to fulfill them?

Funny enough, that is not a problem we have. The asset management of neos, how cloning and storing of assets works, is very hard to really explain for me... to be truthful, because i only know half of it probably

BUT its a main reason why its very hard for neos to tell you how much storage an item takes from your own storage immediatly and even later on

There are references all over to assets stored from different people. And if those people delete their objects and assets and how that affects your storage again..

What neos doesn't do is storing all assets that you store to your inventory JUST in your storage. It doesn't always clone all the assets of the object and all the references. It looks like its in your inventory but it could very likely be that the item you have uses 12 pictures from 12 different peoples storages.

right... that's kind of what I mean: should the market, and any assets sold under it, be set to NOT use up storage? In a sense, it'd give market participation more merit, since you aren't copying an item to your inventory or having it from someone else. However, as much as I hate to even say this, it'd be an interesting marketing ploy to still count it against a user to increase monthly subscriptions instead of the one-time earnings from the sale commission.

And yeah, that last one sounds terrible, but the majority of people here haven't even touched Neos, so might as well suggest a terrible idea now before someone else does.

I think its the best way to do it actually. The store should have an own storage for multiple reasons, but objectifly also because its a license, not an asset you own. And the link to that online asset could be very useful if its able to change. For updates obviously.

But, like with an avatar, that doesn't work if you need to change that asset (and you will most likely) as such we should just continue using neos already existing solution. As changed assets get again, stored in your storage.

So what does the license control than. The access to the stored object? No! The ability to use the stored object, similar how avatar protection works.

However, that then defeats the point of the marketplace. Let's be very real: people claim avatar creation in Neos is hard. Compared to Unity, it's a "yes, but also no" situation. It's different. However, a regular user who can at least change colors in their totally legit copy of Photoshop would still want to change materials. Rebuilding an entire asset pack, meaning a double purchase (one for the in-world disapointment, and the other for the assets) is just not feasable.

Not to mention, again, brings up ANOTHER issue with Neos: interactions and "how far is too far?"

If I go out to a world and someone is using some new gadget that lets them Levioosah me around... If I'm wearing an 'untouchable' avatar from the marketplace... should it be allowed? What about a paint gun to change a random material to plaid? By that logic, if we can't touch the avatar's properties, then a tool shouldn't either? Wouldn't that just defeat the point behind many of Neos's tools and gadgets?

Again: The marketplace discussion IS A DISTRACTION. We're in no position to even consider its establishment, and if it was attempted, in the current state, it'd be a disastrous launch that'd only further hinder Neos's stillborn reputation.

Oh yeah I mean like, I'm just bored of the typical conversation here because it's obvious this telegram never goes anywhere. Definitely a distraction, at least for myself haha

It is, but none of the things you said is a problem.

People claim character creation is hard, well no, its hard for new people or non tech affine people. You don't hear them because they don't stay in neos. Everyone that works a bit with it, figures it out eventually. But thats not the point, as the majority is long gone.

The items from the market wouldn't be any different. Nearly identically to the avatar protection that already exists right now. The only difference is that removing this license protection would not be possible, and the ability to use it would be bound to the license key, not player-ident and as such can't be removed with a click in the editor (it would react like if you try to remove avatar protection as non-owner)

Well... then how about this?

There is a new storage system being made. What can we, as people who do use Neos, often on a daily basis, ask as to what new features and benefits said system will offer? Will we have the option to purge our assets on request to comply with privacy regulations? Will there be additional securities in place? More options to address old issues?

The thing is, any kid can jump into "gumroad," grab their favorite meme, open Unity, and be on their way in VRChat. Yes, it was already set up for them, but when said people, who cannot fully accomplish a full creation, but can modify textures or pick pretty shaders, a massive reason you don't have those people here are because the cost of entry for such is too high.

That'd kind of the point: We can't ignore how other competing platforms are doing far better... because getting into them is far easier. Yes, Neos is more complicated because you have more options presented, but you can say the same for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the classic rivaly of iPhones and Android (and Blackberry).

Actually you would surprised how much people can NOT do that. But yes, it is what you find most often on gumroad. The Unity file that can't be opened by neos obviously. Last time i needed to download an extractor, because downloading that specific unity version, VRChat assemly stuff and all the additional toys would have been nessesary, just to extract that FBX. Don't get me wrong, that would not be a Problem if the artists would think about Neos, but noone does because its to nieche.

As said, a license system for neos would add a lot to it. Its not only about a shop. I can remember multiple projects in Neos, for example the D&D world, that got given up as a result of missing license system

the problem is getting information from people is... also hard, because people will CLAIM to have been on neos... yet never were, and only follow what the community hivemind have to say. If people here think that 'simply add market, get new users, lots money, mooon, hur hur,' let me gladly tell you how very wrong you are. No one wants to touch Neos. Not even if you paid them.

You need to address the concerns and things that are making people stay away. Reconsider older tickets on the Github, like VRM support (something that VRChat MAGICALLY changed their minds on with HoloLive's sudden partnership), or ability to have a preset config file (JSON?) of components and objects.

You need to build an actual foundational reason for people to come to Neos, and money isn't it. You can literally PAY users, and they won't stay. I'm saying that because it was done before, and it FAILED.

Yea well, there is not a single, easy fix obviously. Its one of many featurs that could add to neos. Doesn't mean its the only thing missing.

There are a lot of things missing. Neos has been left in the dust for 2 years. Things that made Neos special are now standard elsewhere.

the good part is that if you arent ready for dev stuff, VRChat does not throw it into your face. Everything is extremely oversimplified and makes sense (for the most part)

I will counter that with... what is the most important thing about VrChat? I mean its nothing more than a mirror simulator. You want to see yourself and others differently than you are. A virtual place to meet, unbound by your real body or identity.

It's main selling point is social interaction and user generated content. And it doesnt get harder than that if you dont want to

So... importing a character? Well, you need 3 different dev-tools, use them all and a file you get on some obscure websites. You want to change them? You need pro-programms that cost hundrets of $

Trust me, there are many people that absolutly can't get an avatar into VrChat

learning something new comes always with a challenge, but it doesnt mean I want this challenge in my face the first seconds of gameplay

So... where did you get forced into a technical challenge in neos before you import your own characters?

You go online, get a quick tutorial about the interface (that is kind of complicated a bit) and are told about worlds where you can get avatars and meet people

needless to say, vrc tutorial is like 1-2 minutes, neosvr tutorial is like 15-40

THIS

also, if has the ONE thing I HATE, and have ACTIVELY YELLED AT A MILLIONARE IN THEIR FACE FOR: Movement is VERY important; it shouldn't be the LAST thing taught!

New user experience could be more streamlined, yea. But i think the only way to do this right would also make the user-interface simpified

NOT to mention... another big problem... the tutorial is BLOATED like a beached whale

the tutorial size for VRChat? ~10MB
Tutorial size for Neos? 200MB+

You can't teach that interface with all its functions on the first day. So maybe it needs to be simpler.

Simple step program would be a good starter

I mean its not that difficult to figure out. Every modern game. What they do first?

Movement, go to a place. If you don't do that immediatly, tells you a single way to archive that and previews it

After that it usually gets you to do a traversal for a target, like going to a different place where you have to duck/jump

As it stands, people have 'skipped' the tutorial, and end up missing A LOT of information. Because it sucks.

After that it goes into interaction, how to do something that is elemental. Like going back in the tutorial or search for a user

And what comes after is an interaction with elements of the world, like speaking to someone, adjusting microphone, adjusting height, whatever adjustments

Switching left/right hand

It should be the same way in neos i think

(Honestly, switching left/right hand might be a first step, as that's a preference, not really a learning thing. Think Halo 1's introduction of "calibrating" the suit)

Yea, you right, that specificly could be first. It also would fun to be part of a story

Like "adjusting virtual environment. Welcome, i will be your guide"

having a virtual assistant for the tutorial in a way

Issue with that is... cost and some people just want to get going. Stories delay things, albeit in a way that seems meaningful, but for a tutorial for a platform, should be taken with great care