So FUD doesn't even have any effect on the price any more?

Well. I'm interested in NCR prices to go up again

There has been a slow decline in NCR's price from 40c to 10c it looks like, but that lines up with the development freeze rather than any event of FUD

There is no development freeze however

Well, kind of but actually no

What would you call it?
I wasn't being particular with the term or anything

the development car is nearly out of fuel and is jetting down the road jittering

Lol

It's more of an interlocking situation right now that prevents new releases, it doesn't affect any development efforts however

You're right, there's nothing stopping Froox from working on his code. Releasing new versions of Neos is the issue

And as far as my guesses go, those development efforts don't seem to be released as Neos

There is also nothing stopping Froox from *rebranding* his code, as if no contract was signed stating ownership of code, nor an license file stating ownership of code to solirax...

From an purely technical point of view, the code belongs to Froox, as do the licenses for libraries used in said code

The Neos brand is problematic anyway

Generic name, bad SEO, trademark violation issues

(Unless adding VR to the end solved the latter, don't remember)

That's what the dev team likes to believe

You got any evidence otherwise?

we have no evidence either way other than Froox never having signed a contract,

That's what we'd hope a good portion of the last year and a half was about: Figuring out if that's legally the case

meaning, until we get confirmation of wether or not Froox put a proper license file in his repository,

the code stands as ARR, meaning it is sole ownership of the repository owner

"All Rights Reserved"

Well, I mean, it is a bit more complicated than just having a contract and it depends on the country

Not really? it depends on where the source code is hosted

I haven't seen a case made for Solirax's ownership of the code so far

Actually it depends more on the circumstances when it was being written

if its locally hosted on a personal git server, then it belongs to the owner of the git server, if it is hosted on github or gitlab, AND lacks an license file, then it belongs to the user

It doesn't matter where the code is currently hosted or who has the possession of it right now

Thomas

do you write code?

Indeed I do

Drop your Github/Lab

https://github.com/merith-tk

Try me

🍿

I code for company, I rarely have time to put something to GitHub

Do you have evidence that you infact, work for that company?

5.7k contributions https://github.com/jae1911

Eyy another synth/furry

I'm properly employed

By who

No need for a dick measuring contest lol (idk if profanity is allowed here)

Profanity is auto deleted by bot lol

example

shit

hmm

okay I guess that bot broke

Swearing is finally legal

Or the bot has latency

Hurray

Thomas, either way you have nothing to prove where yous tand

Merith chill

If that wasn't obvious, by my employer

Again, *who?*

why yall fighting

Stop

Now

Pls

were all nerds we get it yall

Ur being weird Merith

Nah, im making a point

I wonder where this attack comes from. I won't share any information about my employment

What is Karel’s favourite cheese?

Because you litterally have no proof you understand what you are talking about, which is something that is severely lacking in the "yes-men" of this telegram

Don't need to prove credentials, just take their word for it. We're not writing dissertations here

this isnt a job interview T.T

I would rather have someone prove me wrong, than dodge the question,

So everyone who politely disagrees is a yes-man, okay

This looks more like a case of "I must always be right, even when I'm wrong"

Nah, admittedly its an "Im sorry, you got anything to back your claim of knowledge?"

I am practical, show me proof in either direction,

Well this is hopeless, Merith is stubborn, cya

Admittedly Yeah,

You actually claim, there is a tea pot orbiting the sun and I have to prove, that it doesn't exist

??? I am litterally asking for proof you know what your talking about with source code licenses

and the TOS of various git host services

Anyone can read those

Anyone can, but not everyone has

Let me tell you, whenever I write code on company time on company PCs, if I claim that code as my own, it'd effectively be theft from the company. Stealing time and resources

∈)✹(∋

It'd actually need a written permission by my employer to take that code and make it open source

That I acknowledge,

The problem is, since Froox was never under contract, and never received compensation for his work... It basically depends entirely on where the code is hosted as Neos/Solirax, to my knowledge, does not have an office building where developers physically went to work, nor set time frames for "working hours"

If you are co-owner of a company, you are not just employee. You don't get payed to create the code

Hey, Thom is correct. IP Rights are assigned by paperwork(usually your employment agreement) but other paperwork is proper.

Without paperwork you own it.

Thom's employer probably required paperwork either as a part of the contract or separately.

That's the law in your country. In other countries it can be different

Of course. It is however the law in the UK, US and Czechia afaik.

How is that even relevant, do you have proof?

note how I said, "To my knowledge"

I don't mean what you know where it was developed, more about proof, that where code is hosted would have any effect on ownership and not just possession

Ownership is dependent on possession, the license of the repository, and prior existing contracts,

to my knowledge,

and with the lack of an prior-existing contract that specifically states it belongs to neos/solirax and not froox,

To the contrary, for example, I can own a car that is not in my possession. Why do you think there are repossessions?

Again, that is based off a contract

It's pretty much based on ownership. Like if a thief steals from your house, do they own that stuff then? Actually no, they only possess it, but cannot own or legally sell it

None

lol neos telegram livestream viewer

I’m sorry these metaphors are strangled at best and downright stupid at worst

You’re being intransigent for the sake of being intransigent

Adults are talking here. If you have nothing to include, calm yourself and watch.

There’s nothing adult-like in talking like a politician. That’s cowardice

Perhaps you should learn how to be direct too

Outright calling someone a moron isn't a particularly adult thing to do, Kids do that when they don't know another way to make an argument.

I think all of this is meaningless. If the ownership of the code would lie clearly by Karel, he would have already sued. I think whatever is going on its not clear in any case or the ownership lies at Froox. Don't you see that this discussion is not leading anywhere anyway?

I’m not trying to make an argument, I’m pointing out what others won’t say

I read the last 400 messages first

There is a live stream of this telegram and the NCR channel on the discord,

inside of neos,

Eyup

And that’s how I found this place out

i forgot you can preview chats before joining.

That as well lol

But I’ve been following along for a while now

man idk. theres better ways to discuss this then insults. that dont get you any closer to a conclusion

The discussion is circular and pointless though

It was worth pointing out which side was being obtuse

touche you are right

neos

pff

i just think its a pointless topic and we shouldnt just be chasing our tails about it. it aint gonna help much of anything

insulting definitely doesnt help that cause

It wasn’t pointless imo, but the discussion was when one side was talking out of their… mouth

you said it was pointless

Yes, pointless bc one side was spouting garbage

i dunno. i just want people to talk straight up but not going at eachothers throats. you dont get anywhere with venom

In any case, clearly I’ve made my point bc Thomas stopped talking ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Venom has a time and place 😎

I wanted an intelligent conversation with people, and it very clear the only way to properly get people to react and talk facts, is to force their hand

true! but i dont know if this convo was worth the lil venom

It frankly was because it’d gone on long enough

yall like music or something

My Chemical Romance!

oh fuuuck yea

My favourite song is “Thank You for the Venom”

:)

personally i like MCR and Get Scared myself

Good taste

I am litterally sitting here just looking at the karel situation, and just...

Karel needs to step down from CEO, and focus on their corner of the project rather than all corners,
their corner being Marketing, and NCR

thanks, very into punk type music

i enjoy Don't You Dare Forget the Sun by Get Scared. but i love Sarcasm

When Froox and the team was all functional, from waht I gather everything basically worked well, Karel was able to push NCR and the Buisness side of things moderately well, Froox and his dev team were able to work on the game/engine and fix several issues many people had, as well as improve the project as a whole,
the community and administrative teams were able to moderate it

And karel threw all of that away over something that a good portion of the crypto currency didnt really want, (I am not including the boom of people who were in it just as an get-rich-quick scheme, as are most "crypto-bros")

Threw all that existing infrastructure because they wanted to push NCR while the key pillars of the existing structure did not want to push it as hard.

this is all from what I have gathered over my time being a member of the Neos community

and since the Team left/went on strike, Karel has had to shoulder damn near all of that weight, and it is clear they are starting to crack under it

ZD Fraiser, you are litterally proving my point by reacting to my messages with Clown and Shit emoji=

It's not worth it

You are just mindlessly backing Karel without looking at the harm Karel is doing to the community

im sick and tired of people just not bothering to get both sides of the story

You know you won a discussion once the other party insults you

or atleast even attempt

And then talks you down

No point in responding to that

Thomas, you actually talk

Fraiser has not once spoken, ever, in this group

I hardly talk here though

"hardly" is more than "litterally nothing"

ZD cannot be reasoned with in regard to react dropping. Not worth getting upset at

I still want to call them out on it as its immature behavior to not talk about it

I found it rather inconvenient to call behavior out, though yes, sometimes it feels like it makes one feel better when finally speaking up. And that's it, it just seems to be a good idea at first and then it wasn't even worth my time to argue

Ill admit, I was a bit more agressive on that front than I would've liked

with you

Water under the bridge

wait i forgot you can edit message in telegram oof

I was just frustrated with people claiming shit and not knowing the facts behind it, and then refusing to admit it or bother taking a quick google

That's pretty much with like everyone

And indeed a quick Google had helped

Pidgeons playing chess rules operate your brain, I see

Took you 50 mins to come back with that? Nice

can yall stop insulting eachother god damn.

i thought we was past this shit

I mean, if Thomas is going to declare victory without even engaging with criticism, no matter how coarse, I have no choice but to continue

no one won here yall are just bickering over the most minute of dumb shit

I mean, seriously. This leads to nowhere. Just don't. All this discussion about something we all know little about.

I wanna hear bout how to fix neos damn it

I am not insulting here

We’d passed it but Thomas had to return to it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sure mate

Thomas stop responding about it
Zil Stop Agging It on
Merith same with you

and lets talk about how to fix neos damn it

The way to fix Neos is to get to the bottom of Merith’s point but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't care responding to it.

yes but we are circling it with a nothing burger

what do you think is a good first step to help neos Zil, Tomas and Merith

without being smooth and snarky

A good first step would be to respond to Merith’s points and make good faith gestures towards being transparent to the community

Transparency to the community is a good start

Transparency sure is lacking. Better communication would also help. Or at least a little communication from that Team at all

Legit. Karel stepping down from "CEO" role and letting someone else properly shoulder the burden

Karel does not appear fit to run a company on his own

help is always good!

That's what even Karel seems to want to do, if he finds someone else to take that role

As i see it, i never assume people are stupid.

Not updating neos on purpose and hoping the product gets worth more.. stupid.
Having a big programming team interested in the development of neos and not showing it to the community... very stupid.
Not suing if you know you clearly own the code someone stole... insanely stupid.

I really, seriously don't think Karel is stupid, i think he is a business man that knows what he is doing. I think things have a reason.

I am legitimately willing to step up to the plate and help, so long as Karel is willing to compromise in the end

What do you think are points to compromise on?

1) Let the moderation team do their job
This extends to the wiki,
2) Let the team who has been acting as support, continue acting as support. This way Karel does not need to worry about training new people who don't understand the systems in place, saves time and stress.
3) listen to the community and tone down the crypto pushing by 50%
4) don't try to control everything, you spread yourself too thin and overwork yourself.
5) let someone act as the intermediary between you and others for a bit. Like an community manager

6) just sit down and listen, join in on the community meetings,

That sounds really good so far

Like even if you attend just to show up and look around. Being there and actually trying to understand the communities desires versus your own have been what saved many games and companies from destruction

I just personally disagree to 3

well, its a compromise number 3. karel wont get rid of crypto

Well, actually listen to the community, yes indeed. That I strongly agree to

Yeah, I'm not saying get rid of it. But it shouldn't be the FOCUS of NeosVR

The community and development should be the focus

The value of NCR emerges from that

Yes

now this is the convo i like seeing

With the development of the project and the community, it allows for better integrating the NCR into the project, as people are less likely to jump ship because of actual legitimate FUD and not what has been called FUD in the past here

However as much as I've seen, the dev team definitely doesn't want to work with Karel under no circumstances any more.

Honestly with that team going off to do their own thing is fine, it's mainly you gotta be willing to compromise with others to get what you want

I am autistic, I have learned the clockwork behind emotions and a lot of mental states

Just so I can react to them as appropriately as possible.

i feel that autism part fr

You never get what you want by being hard headed, you get an monkeys paw of what you want instead

No worries, this is text, we are per definition all autistic in chat

It's hard to convey tone and emotion in just text

On this case, Karel is getting the monkeys paw of getting the old team removed and shit. But at the same time the community hating him

I personally don't like that. As I can write something that to me sounds and reads neutral, but to nueral-typicals, is extremely aggressive

Deleting things from the official wiki also causes uncertainty and doubt of whether to still work on that wiki

Not just to only neurotypicals, it can be taken extremely aggressive by anyone

Everything I wrote was neutral :)

oh god i feel that

i have had times where i just say a message i think is normal and its apparently rude-

Hence my rant above outright saying Karel himself is causing FUD

It's hard, neurotypicals have so many ways to say something negative in positive ways

Or it's about things that are not said

I want what's best for neos, and what is best from what I can tell, is Karel not having ABSOLUTE POWER

Oh no, that's FUD again...

There needs to an checks and balance system

Not really

I made a snarky fun remark. That's why I added something unusual

Lol

I'm saying Karel does not need to have absolute Thanos Snap powers to neos

That power should be divided up

From a different POV, I don't know any more. I think about, what the investors might want

The only "investors" are one actual company, one or two schools, and an shit ton of "Token Holders"

If I was an investor, I'd like to see a roadmap for the foreseeable future of Neos

The token holders aren't investors

Step 1) Do everything in power to get Froox back onboard with development,

Without Froox, or the current release source code.

I am stating this as a fact

I doubt that is going to happen

Legit. Even it it's hiring YellowDogManStudios as separate entities to develop the game/engine,

I doubt that being an option until new CEO

Step 2) Make the budgets and where the money actually is going public. In a monthly report.

Show how much money is going into server costs, as well as "employee/CEO" pockets, and how much is going into an fund for the company to draw from

Besides, I don't see why anyone would want to invest in Yellowdogman after what happened

Step 3) get federated server software, akin to how Mastodon works,

Step 2, I think is a very good idea to get confidence in Solirax

Have the primary server be the default, but allow members to make their own "Universes"/"Galaxies"
(As part of this. Rename "Universe's" to "Galaxies" and make "Universes" refer to actual servers)

However, what I heard the devs saying, they don't want fragmentation, so I guess federation is also out of question

Federation is an option to compromise. As each server would be 100% its own thing. So NeosVR servers would be default. And make it so changing servers requires an launch argument,

All servers must use the latest release of the software or not be able to have users join

I have alot of ideas, but I need people in power to listen to them.

The thing with, is the default, is not really working. Either you are feature complete and others are behind, that's what I see with Second Life and the OpenGrid

Or you don't have a default. When you have no default, there is no point in NCR really

Well, it's complicated. The value of NCR or just any game currency like for example the Lindendollar is not that easy

The L$ is an fixed rate

NCR is tied down to ETH,

Yes and no

L$ is at a fixed rate, because it is made so, by regulating the market volume. There is only that many L$ as there is demand to cause that price

NCR has a cap, there won't ever be more as what the initial minting produces. That makes it volatile and the price can change rapidly with demand

And demand is the thing that is next

Let's compare the demand for L$ and NCR.
Demand for L$ is there because it is actually used in Second Life. People pay their land in L$, so they need to buy it. Marketplace also converts all purchases so they happen in L$. That includes purchases done in fiat, where L$ are bought on the exchange in real time to fulfill the purchase. So there is also implicit demand created.

Yeah,

NCR however, the only sink that currently exists that causes only mediocre demand is buying storage

Neos currently does not have a market need for NCR,

Everyone. If they optimize their items correctly, can get away with 5gb of storage,

And even with the marketplace planned, it sounds like NCR would be just an option

Yeah, as currently the only way to get NCR Is to be a Patreon member, which I have yet to get my 7.5 NCR to begin with

Actually it is so much cheaper to get it on uniswap

Wait seriously?

What's the USD conversion for 10ncr

1000 NCR for $74

Of course you have to add gas fees to that and whatever you pay at an exchange to buy ETH

Ahhh

The NCR I have seems to be at 50% of what it was when I bought it

But, the all time low was in May, where 1000 NCR was only like $20

So we are actually recovering, it seems

Did something happen to the neos wiki certs?

Are you sure you tried https://wiki.neosvr.com/Main_Page

Yep

FF is not happy about the certs

Self signed apparently

Are you trying to use https://wiki.neos.com/ ? The wiki on https://wiki.neosvr.com/ appears to be fine. Note neos.com vs neosvr.com

That does. It's still weird though.

The link on the website uses neos.com

That is just incorrect at the moment then

or is missing a redirect

Are you sure? Neosvr.com redirs to neos.com

for the wiki. it should go the otherway at the moment.

Hello all, I think it might be helpful to try end remove emotions from this discussion for a bit.
First of all, I understand that a lot of you might be feeling frustrated or concerned about the recent Wiki updates, and that's completely valid as there hasn’t been a lot of context for these changes and the trust of the community is fragile already as it is.
But it's important not to jump into conclusions or overreact.
We made these changes with the intention of providing a better reflection of the current situation within the internal structure.
There has been a lot of discussion on here lately about actual team members and roles, and this was an attempt to address it amongst other things.
The core information about Neos game and valuable content of contributors, of course, remains intact - which is the most important thing. 🙂When certain people talk about removing their contributed content out of Wiki as a sort of a punishment for these changes, that is a little childish. Please correct me if I am wrong here or if there is something I overlooked or missunderstood.

We are all working towards the same goal - a further develoment of Neos and moving forward despite of this mess. Open and constructive discussion is however much more difficult than anyone would like. Clearly still we haven't reached the point of being able to sit together at one table. So for now, we are going to bring the new web/desktop UI, account management changes amongst other things very soon. The whitepaper update too. 😊
And I understand that things may be moving at a slower pace than desired but it’s better to test things hundred times on this instance.

Regarding communication on this platform (Telegram), maintaining somehow positive or at least civil outlook is essential for the NCR -as this is Neos Credits group. Possibly on instances things could be handled/communicated differently but since it is incredibly time and energy consuming to react to each one of these comments, especially the repetitive negativity, sometimes quick moderation actions are performed in order to stop the discussion spinning into even darker places.
I absolutely understand that it must be incredibly difficult for anyone to navigate in this mess and I am sorry. I would love hear from anyone who has some constructive feedback and who can uderstand that the only way out if it is to stop taking sides. We genuinely enjoy working and interacting with anyone who has a positive, professional and proactive approach.🙂 And NCR will go up as a result of demonstrating ongoing development - people actually working on this project. People enjoying Neos. Healthy community. Not by defenestrating CEO or spreading hysteria.

The funny thing about constructive feedback is if it actually got listened to after the....10th-20th time? I lost count. There are better ways to reflect internal changes without deleting history of how you got to this point imho. So while I appreciate the de-escalation your attempting, your not really saving face in this situation, as all the prior situations.

Current wiki is actually on wiki.neosvr.com going to the base domain redirects to neos.com going to wiki.neos.com is supposed to redirect to the wiki.neosvr.com one. That was an inbetween fix of some sort as the website moved to neos.com from neosvr.com

It is not possible to see why valuable content has been removed or why anything might outweigh the costs that deleting history brings. Especially as that history was full of constructive feedback by users of Neos. I hope you have a backup, because that information lost was invaluable

Yeah, we've been giving constructive criticism for ages, but it's been ignored time after time.

Generally, when constructive feedback(the best kind) leads to a ban, you'll start to get the other varieties of feedback, including those you don't want.

This also occurs when any feedback is referred to by a strange abbreviation and then ignored instead of being engaged with in a constructive manner.

This is not about anyone saving face😊️️. And receiving feedback doesn't automatically imply that it will get implemented. It's just to say that one is open to listening the other person and validating what they have to say. And I do not know what particula instances we are talking about right now. So we would have to be more specific.

And I am talking here for myself. I do not control other people and how they receive feedback. If I did I would be probably set for life. 😁️️️️️️

Oh if I could control that sure, I'd probably be retired by now.

Can you just point at specific things please that you feel that are missing or were deleted? That would be helpful☺️️️️️️️ Thank you.

I think it's the removal that gets people. Not validating is fine, disagreeing is also fine, but there's a bit of line crossing for most when feedback is responded to with removal and bans.

Basically for the most part it has been mostly things relating to people just outright disagreeing with Karel

I suppose JUST removal. The wiki edit ban at least had action behind it, contested as it is.

Simply said, all the office hours

Well for one, episodes of a weekly podcast/section that i've been hosting for years that brings much joy to the community and helps out a ton of users. But this was referred to as a "personal" thing for my own site or something.

I don't think any of us can pull deleted data from thin air...

Many people in the discord are shocked that I haven't been banned yet

There is soooo much content and information in office hours that people love.

I personally consider it an important part of the larger scope of the Neos community 👍

Additionally, by removing documentation that I have created, you make me feel unwelcome and in feeling unwelcome I consider pulling my other documentation for Neos. I can delete all my tutorials in seconds and purge the wiki of my contributions quite easily.

They contain a lot of information, like why things in Neos are the way they are. Or how to solve some not so common issue someone might have

I'm not doing this, but it would be a reasonable course of action for a similar user who is not me.

Well that is exactly that sort of panic that I prefer we didn't gravitate towards.

Said resources almost 80% of the player base to my knowledge have used to learn how to play the game

Then I will say this, get Karel to stop making split second decisions and let the community made moderation team do their job please

It is not panic, it is a clearly thought out response to actions. As far as community sourced documentation goes there are tons of examples of people doing this exact same thing.

That is what caused this entire incident today. Karel made a decision that permanently removed a known player from Neos Because they though Karel had made an accidental deletion of a resource

Generally, users being locked out of their account and thus being denied access to their property. Is a good reason to panic. So I don't blame them.

Isn't Karel getting rid of user data more of a panic-esque response anyways?

I am sorry if people here felt it was abrupt. The ban you are refering to I would have to talk about it as things dissapear in this conversationg very fast.

Or a case where hundreds of contributions someone has made get deleted without a reason

Please elaborate then. This is what caused everything (and the FUD) that went down today

I can provide a brief summary if this helps.

A user's account is permanently locked, because there was a confusion about the wiki. Namely a large amount of community documentation being deleted without notice.

I can provide usernames if it helps.

Honestly, the actions yallre taking feel way more knee-jerk than any of ours

I think since this looks like one bigger topic - we could definitelly set some place for discussion about office hours page. Or other pages. Possibly Discord might be a better place for that. ☺️️️️️️️@ProbablePrime

There isn't much to talk about. I'm standing up my own page for my content.

The unofficial discord to discuss a topic occurring on the official sites?

Or planning to make a new discord

Well it's sort of difficult then to talk then there is nothing to talk about 😁️️️️️️.

Apologies, I have already stated the issues, what happened etc.

If you can provide usernames of specific people that you feel that are locked out of the account without a good reason that would be helpful. Thank you. Then I could actually look at it. It might take a little while to review but I am certainly willing to give it my time.

I will direct message you those users with some information. Thank you for all you do Andrea!

Thank you @ProbablePrime , I am looking forward to resolving this 😊️️️️

Well. The wiki appears to be down.

It's more of the in-between from Wiki.neos.com and Wiki.neosvr.com since Wiki.neosvr.com was the original and the Wiki.neos.com was the redirect back to the old webserver

The old one still works

*sigh*

Hey @malooniac Karel api.neos.com is having issues
Thank you.

None

Yeah nobody can log into Neos right now

This of course completely hoses the entirety of Neos. So Tl;dr Neos is down.

Looks like people are able to log in now

Things seem to be recovering a little. That's good.

Thank you for the info about the banned accounts. I've taken a look, and it seems that these users were being very rude and insulting towards Karel. Calling the company CEO "retarded" and telling them to "sit on a cactus" on the official Wikipage is completely unacceptable. They were also reverting changes performed by Karel.

While we understand that people have their opinions and emotions can run high, such behavior should not be displayed on the Neos official Wiki. As a result, these users were banned.

However, we also recognize that actions can sometimes be impulsive - for all of us and
if these respective users are willing to apologize to Karel and genuinely understand that such behavior is inappropriate and will not be tolerated, we are open to unlocking their accounts. It's essential for everyone to treat each other with respect even if we disagree with actions.

They can email us at hello@neos.com and we can take it from there. Thank you all for understanding!

And what about if they had NCR in their acount? They wont be able to make transactions aswell now.

Wich means NCR accounts are locked without a warning in this case.

With the way they're wording things, it makes me believe that they'd rather handle things like that privately than through a public channel like this.

None

So I had to come here to learn why my account was banned? Wow.

And also, why my entire account? Why not just remove my ability to edit the wiki?

Because Karel impulsively banned the wiki editors. We recognize that actions can sometimes be impulsive, for all of us.

None

The Neos Wiki and Game accounts are interlinked, I don't think it was entirely intentional to get your cloud access revoked.

There are users that still have yet to receive any sorts of response 3 weeks into waiting.

Therefore moderation of accounts, comunity and users should be done by the moderation team and not by the CEO.

Also is this going to change from being "Community-run" to "Solirax run and managed"?
https://wiki.neosvr.com/Neos_Wiki:About

It's normal practice for those with higher powers than Moderators to have moderation privileges. The issue at hand is the way the moderation was done, there was no direct rule or item in TOS shown as being broken, along with no warning additionally.

Especially with one only just reverting a page change thinking it was accidental, of course some have also taken the un-professional route with their words in the edit notes but that shouldn't have resulted getting completely banned from Cloud services.

At other places, all with moderation privileges issue bans no longer than 24h at a time. Any longer bans would have to go through the ticketing system for moderation to be applied.

Just sounds like the written policy is not being followed...

It seems that Neos moderation team is also keeping track of moderation actions in a similar way, an actual Neos moderator would know better than me.

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I feel like there should be a warning on the wiki when someone is about to undo / amend changes made by staff. Because currently there's no indication whatsoever that an account on the wiki belongs to a staff member and if messing with that can get your Neos account suspended, that needs a big warning sign on it.

Or better yet, the staff doing the moderation action for a direct insult should step back, take a deep breath and remember that they're trying to be professional, and give them the warning they're supposed to do, and potentially give them a temp ban instead of reacting childishly and letting their emotions get out of hand. 😊

From what I've read about the issue so far, it seems that Karel should be the one apologizing first for letting his emotions get the better of him, and THEN the banned individuals apologize for insulting him. From what I understand, a large part of the NeosVR community looks unfavorably upon Karel, and holding someone's account hostage until they apologize is definitely not the way to get people to look at you in a better light.

ZD Fraser, That is highly inappropriate. Please be more mature.

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A valiant effort

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https://media.makeameme.org/created/get-down-to-a3njr4.jpg

Howdy

Ohh, hello there!

Hey Thom :)

So what the hell is this talk that Froox has officially lost Neos???

He resigned from Solirax

We uh... Know that already?

As far as I am concerned, Froox loosing Neos will only happen when he gives up the code or Karel is able to PROPERLY continue development of the engine

He resigned from development, doesn't change ownership. Technically nothing changed much. What really would change something is a real update. Server and client and with an actual featur on the list

Ye

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He still has his shares.

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but yeah for the new team, I am surprised I havent been banned from the telegram with how hair trigger Karel appears to be within the community

So, where is the website of the new time? List?

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Nope not at all

He resigned correct.

I think like the only reason why there is this confusion is because Karel *FINALLY* got around to the paperwork in the government offices

I don't really see what it changes. I mean its not like that anyone was considering the situation to change before lawyers get involved 2 years ago. As they have not gotten involved, i can only guess that a) everyone is stupid or b) the status quo can't be changed by law.

Me neither tbhs,

How long should I take to get a response about getting my account unlocked after emailing? I'm starting to lose hope of getting it back.

Apologies, I haven't actually had to do something like this before.

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Good day every one .
My name is Raymond am an artist with a lot of Passion for character modeling either anime , furry , vrchat avatar ,sfm , NSFW and alot more I can help you bring your idea to reality with my skill in case you need a anime or furry you are free to talk to me I can give you advice on it and you are going to enjoying massive joy by experience another realm of happiness on VR streaming platform.

That really feels like it's a scam.

Am not a scam you can request for proof of work in my DM

Probably not the place to advertise,

Lol

I'm wondering whether to correct or if this just confuses people more

It honestly doesnt matter. We will see the changes soon enough

Or not 👀

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Fire away sir:)

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I forgot

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One thing that's nice about a Discord is that you can separate channels for different discussions, and keep the big yikes conversations away from the hey I need help conversations

hey @malooniac I just logged into Neos and the bot says I "now have" a Gunter account when it used to say my Gunter account has been extended. Do you know why this is?

The past week has shown that Karel should not be taking any moderation actions, ever. If he wants to keep the Neos community intact at all, he should, at the minimum, leave moderation actions to others. Neoss usability as a game comes from the community, and NCRs worth comes from Neos as a game. If there's no community, there's no game, and if there's no game, the biggest selling point of NCR becomes moot. Karels unprofessional behavior is extremely embarrassing and concerning at best.

But hay, its a change we all have been craving, right? xD

Ha, yea. But the change we are craving for is not banning random people. The change we crave for is a sign that there is ANY development of actual neos. Like updates of the client and server.

A feature from the list of upcoming features for example

People can leave on their own, they don't need help by getting banned. Thats not difficult. The difficult part is to convince them to stay

And, i am sorry to say, it doesn't think anyone is doing a good job with that.

Just, lets wait

Im sure big changes are around the corner

Feels like the gears started moving finally

Karel really shouldn't be banning random people. I still disagree with it.

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Not a gotcha or anything, but what's the latest on this?
Currently on the Standalone build if I try and retrieve my NCR deposit address, I get an error. Im wondering if this new system will address that

Did actually get some at one point but was disappointed when I couldnt use it

Disappointing behaviour from CEO

Impulsive banning of users and erasure of neoss history

You do hate to see it. I wonder if maybe archiving would be better than erasure? Maybe something at the top that says "Hey! This is no longer considered an official page but the content can still be found here if you're looking for it"

Legit. That would've been the preferred method

What's new?

Sorry, someone edited the wiki and got banned. Were they being mischevious or was it a mistake?

They, according to what they said. Undid an edit made by Karel, thinking the edit was a mistake (deleting an entire article), and Karel flipped their shit and just banned them from the entirety of Neos for "Vandalism of the Wiki"

Rather than letting those whos job is the MODERATE. moderate

Whys Karel even trying to delete the article? It's got useful information and is part of neoss history

Nvm

They fixed the bot

No fekking clue

so there's the formation of a new company now known as Neos Foundation?

It does not appear to be a company and all references still point to solirax being the company

Its a... foundation?

What is it exactly?

There were people leaving higly abusive comments and revertimg changes. One of the banned account was yesterday restored through hello@neos.com

it was multiple accounts then? and the one who thought it was a mistake was restored?

Everyone is saying a completely different story

Prime is this true?

I can DM you the full details of the three bans if you'd like @orcbull

yeah I'd like that and thank you

Ok I understand now

I saw ample mention of this innocent banning and wanted to know the actual context. As usual the truth was somewhere in the middle and lots of inconvenient details left out... but thats kind of how things always go around here, right?

there's plenty of places you can insult Karel, abusing wiki edits to do it shouldn't be yet another one of them

Honestly yeah. The wiki is a pretty low point to shit on Karel for their incompetency in certain fields.

(*cough cough* lack of ability to keep the ban hammer on the wall and the consistent deleting messages that are negative about NCR or Neos/Solirax)

Or anything arbitrarily determined to be FUD

Karel appears to be stuck in the "When you have a hammer. Every problem looks like a nail" mindset

Which is a VERY BAD mindset for an CEO to have

These are the first bans I’ve ever given 😂 what are you talking about.

Sure, it can be justified. But not handling it through the proper channels, and lack of transparency on such matters where the community, which grants the NCR token its value to fekkin begin with, so desires... Not good things

You legit have banned people and then deleted the messages they said so they can't be peer reviewed under the guise of "FUD" in the past

Like, I can understand the banning depending on the context, but you kinda delete the context

Sure so we have have spam and fud here why?

Every action that I do will be spun into something evil, I learned that over the last few years.

Only thing that would your kind welcome is if the company goes bankrupt or I die. 😂

Please go write nonsense to Discord thats the place for that.

I get that, it's why I TRY to remain neutral. But like... You are sitting there. As CEO, with the "Hammer", and your problems, are looking like nails to you.

Sometimes you just have to deal with the good and ugly of the community

Mostly the ugly 😄

Maybe make one or two more telegram groups, or even a new discord, so that these conversations can be mostly organized

Support using the new "Threads" discord has, an offtopic channel. An NCR channel. And an on-topic

The hammer was there for years I only used it now your logic makes zero sense. i’ve also restored the account when there was an explanation and apology.

Kindly don’t tell me what to do.

It was a suggestion

Not an telling you what to do

It's a suggestion because it would grant better organization and an lot less stress on you having to scroll through Telegram in a single channel with an unknown amount of new messages between when you last checked and now

Thank you for your suggestion

Also side note

I don't think 2fa is working

I am not being promoted for it... At all

Prompted*

Maybe you disabled it?

I don't think I did?

Also may I DM you about NCR? I think only this months NCR finally came in but not the past months NCR

Tomas is not adding features and now he’s even removing them very on brand 😄

Can’t wait for the new system, this will be solved

NCR isn't managed by him, he hasn't updated back diddly shit lol

Oh

Yay a word that the filter doesn't catch

Well he has full acces to our Steam and can do updates

Well he isn't updating anything beyond nessecary

Such as when the API endpoints changed your youtube-dl had issues

NCR and 2FA sound pretty necessary to me

Not *your*

I signed into the website account.neos.xom

Com*

or even signing into the wiki to fix an issue that was gonna bite the wiki links in the ass on Multi_Lanugage_UI eventually

no 2FA dialogs

You're actively editing a document, then people are defacing your edits right under you, insulting you... And you think they shouldn't be banned?

I think those people were so drunk on years of petty insults that they just have thought that was OK